The SpeakerThe SpeakerMs. Beale, you can do the prayers now. PRAYERS [Prayers read by Ms. Kara Beale, Assistant Clerk ]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Ms. Beale. Good morning, Members. The House is now in session. CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES [Minutes of 5 June 2020]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThe Minutes of June 5th have been ci rculated. Are there any amendments or corrections that need to be made? There are none. The Minutes are confirmed as printed. [Minutes of 5 June 2020 confirmed] MESSAGES FROM THE GOVERNOR
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThere are none. ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE SPEAKER OR MEMBER PRESIDING
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThere are none. MESSAGES FROM THE SENATE
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThere are none. PAPERS AND OTHER COMMUNICATIONS TO THE HOUSE
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThere is one this morning, in the name of the Premier. Premier, would you like to put your paper? Premier. Hon. E. David Burt: Good morning, Mr. Speaker. I am here.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYou can proceed and do your Casino Gaming paper. CASINO GAMING (CASINO FEES) AMENDMENT REGULATIONS 2020 Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have the pleasure to attach and submit for the consideration of the Honourable House of Assembly the Casino Gaming …
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThere are none. STATEMENTS BY MINISTERS AND JUNI OR MINISTERS
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMembers, there are actually three Statements this morning. You will have seen the cor-rection that went out earlier today , which the Order Paper indicated that there were actually three. The first is in the name of Minister Foggo. Minister, would you like to present your Statement? The Speaker: Minister …
Members, there are actually three Statements this morning. You will have seen the cor-rection that went out earlier today , which the Order Paper indicated that there were actually three. The first is in the name of Minister Foggo. Minister, would you like to present your Statement? The Speaker: Minister Foggo.
BERMUDA CHARITIES
Hon. Lovitta F. Foggo: Good morning, Mr. Speaker. Yes, I will read my paper today. Mr. Speaker, today it is important to recognise the work that charities do in Bermuda and how this Government will continue to support them. Charities
are referred to as the “third sector ,” and the need for their services in providing a safety net for our comm unity has never been greater. Mr. Speaker, recently , charities were added to my list of responsibilities. I have begun to meet with 4198 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly key stakeholders to ensure that we are doing all we can to provide the support and r egulatory framework for charities, particularly those c harities that provide vital services for our c ommunity. Mr. Speaker, part of my goal is to • improve the c ommunities’ understanding of the third sector’s value; • reduce charities’ duplication of effort and work; • review and amend, where necessary , the classifications of charities; and • ensure that g overnment funding goes to the most effective program mes and services to achieve greater social impact . Mr. Speaker, the impact of the COVID -19 pandemic has hi ghlighted the importance of c harities in providing a safety net for our residents. It has also brought to the fore the myriad charities and the often overlapping services they provide, and the resulting competition for limited financial support. As of Apr il this year, there were over 300 charitable organi sations registered in Bermuda under the Charities Act 2014. Mr. Speaker, the types of charities registered are quite diverse, and they range from a scuba diving club to school Parent Teachers’ Associations . They also include those c harities that provide essential services to the community, including food, shelter, medical assistance, counselling and other support services. Mr. Speaker, g iven the diversity of charities and their concomitant roles, a revise d classification system will be implemented for the public to better identify and understand the purpose of said charities, and to also enhance efficiencies and to provide a clearer appreciation for how the public should access and utilise their services f or optimum benefit. We must, both the Government and public, be able to make more informed decisions on donations and support as it relates to charities. Mr. Speaker, it is also necessary to ensure that these entities do not work in isolation and that the support services that Government and individual char-ities provide work in tandem to be more effective for their specific communities in need and generally for the community as a whole. There are limited r esources , and a more strategic approach to deliver y of services will have the greatest beneficial social i mpact. Mr. Speaker, it is important that we continue the work done with respect to the charity regime that enabled Bermuda to receive a high rating during the recent Caribbean Financial Task Force m utual evaluation process. We will continue to collect and record data on these entities , their purpose, their deliverables and their effectiveness , and ensure that they continue to meet all regulatory requirements including those set out by NAMLC [National Anti-Money Laundering Committee] . Mr. Speaker, while we focus our efforts on achieving these goals, there is scope for every one of us to do our part for the betterment of Bermuda. A number of c harities live by the mantra that I am my brother’s keeper . They selflessly provide the safety net for those truly in crisis and most in need in our community. They have never needed our help more than they do today! We can make a difference by holding true to that adage , by each of us identifying how we can help a nd then helping. Mr. Speaker, charities need our help in aiding our community. Our support will make a real difference for those in need. With the proposed goals on charities, combined with the collective commitment to exercise them in a manner for optim al benefit for those in need, we can realise improved social gains. Mr. Speaker, Archbishop Desmond Tutu said, “Do your little bit of good where you are; it’s those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world.” Mr. Speaker , I thank you.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Minister. The next Statement this morning is from the Minister of National Security. Minister Caines. Hon. Wayne Caines: Thank you. If it pleases you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerContinue, Minister. GANG VIOLENCE REDUCTION TEAM RESPONSE TO HEROES WEEKEND INCIDENTS Hon. Wayne Caines: Mr. Speaker, I this morning would like to provide this Honourable House with an update on the National Security Ministry’s Gang Vi olence Reduction Team’s response to the unfortunate violent and antisocial events over the National …
Continue, Minister.
GANG VIOLENCE REDUCTION TEAM RESPONSE TO HEROES WEEKEND INCIDENTS Hon. Wayne Caines: Mr. Speaker, I this morning would like to provide this Honourable House with an update on the National Security Ministry’s Gang Vi olence Reduction Team’s response to the unfortunate violent and antisocial events over the National Heroes Day Holiday weekend. Mr. Speaker, what was meant to be a weekend that celebrated our I slands ’ heroes of progression, equality and human rights instead was marred by violence and death. On Friday there was a major stabbing during the daylight hours in the parking lot of the Heron Bay Marketplace. Please know that i nvest igations into that incident are ongoing. Mr. Speaker, most of us will have seen the videos circulating on social media of a large group of young people at John Smith’s Bay engaging in serious violent behaviou r. The Bermuda Police Service has already made several arrests, and the investigation continues. Later that same night, there was a firearm incident in the East End that has left one man recovering from a gunshot wound at King Edward Memorial Hospital. Forensic evidence at the scene is assisting police with the investigation. Mr. Speaker, the violence of the weekend continued into Sunday, culminating with the fatal
Bermuda House of Assembly stabbing of a 22- year-old young man. I extend my deepest condolences to the family and friends of Mr. Joshua Rowse. Another Bermudian family is now in mourning because of senseless violence. Indeed, our entire community is mourning. Mr. Speaker, while we continue to battle COVID -19, the past few months have not been easy for any of us . And I hasten to add that we are still not out of the woods. The events occurring this past weekend are manifestations of some psychological effects of this pandemic. Research has shown that chronic social isolation increases the risk of social and mental health challenges. Social isolation has an i mpact on the body and the mind; it is known to be a contributing f actor to the surge of depression, anxiety and substance abuse. Some psychologists have not-ed that a surge in verbal and domestic violence, child abuse, sexual abuse, murder, robbery and cybercrimes can be expected in certain circumstances as a result of the social isolation induced by pandemic r estrictions. The ramifications of COVID -19 will go further than to hit our economy only. COVID -19 is a storm that we must we ather together if we are to get past this pandemic. Mr. Speaker, having said that, I must emph asise one point. That is, bringing harm to others and instilling fear in the public will not be accepted in Be rmuda under any circumstance. We will continue to push back against those who insist on bringing vi olence and disorder to our community. The chain snatchings and thefts are a precursor to the nefarious behaviou r and violent events that we have witnessed over this past weekend, and it must stop. The country will not tolerate it. Mr. Speaker, following times of crisis and events witnessed this past weekend, many people will look to place blame for the ills of our society. There will no doubt be questions as to the efficacy of the Gang Violence Reduction Team. There will be questions asked: What is the team doing? Where are the results? Mr. Spe aker, I want to reassure the public that the Gang Violence Reduction Team is working around the clock. The work of the Gang Violence Reduction Team is important and cannot be understated. This Government and the Gang Violence Reduction Team remain focused on coordinating resources to best a ddress the issues; and despite the events of last weekend, we are seeing results through our various pr ogram mes and initiatives. Mr. Speaker, following th is past weekend’s events, the Gang Violence Reduction Team’s Coor dinated Crisis Response Unit (CCR) was activated to support the community through emotional hardship. The public may recall that this unit is set up to assist family members, relatives or witnesses of violent inc idents through the time of crisis. The CCR U nit was deployed to the hospital several times over the last , past weekend and made home visits to support fam ilies affected by the violence. The Coordinated Crisis Response Unit has systems, structures and trained staff in place to provide immediate emoti onal support to the affected families, and to provide immediate tr iage in order to connect families with long- term support through counselling services and support groups. Mr. Speaker, in order to lower community tensions , the G ang Violence Reduction Team further increased the focus on s treet-level outreach. Throughout the shelter in place, curfew and other emergency measures, the Gang Violence Reduction Team continued to visit targeted neighbou rhoods and build co nnections and relationships with at-risk yo ung people. Mr. Speaker, the Gang Violence Reduction Team provides intervention through the formation of trust-based relationships that serve to de- escalate and mediate tensions when necessary. The o utreach workers have been out in our community directly mediating tensions and conflicts between individuals. The work is high -touch, highly confidential and very sens itive. It involves directly working with persons who are currently involved or have been directly impacted by gang violence. It is not appropriate for me to provide detail on the particulars of this outreach [work ], in order to pr otect the confidentiality and security of those individuals willing to participate in the aforementioned pr ogramme. The public can be assured , however, that the outreach work of the Gang Violence Reduction Team connects many at -risk individuals to neighbou rhood resources and long -term case management. The goal is to steer these young men towards prosocial activities by providing a range of opportunities for change. Mr. Speaker, the closure of schools as a r esult of COVID -19 and the impending summer holiday have removed some young people from their normal, and at times preventative, social structures. Without the regularity of sports clubs, extracurricular activities, afterschool jobs, weekend jobs and most other social structures, there has been a surge of gatherings of sizeable groups of young people milling around var ious neighbo urhoods. Consequently, there has been an increase in chain snatchings, theft and robberies amongst our young people. Mr. Speaker, to combat this, the Gang Vi olence Reduction Team has been conducting i ncreased check -ins with youth who were previously in our high school prevention program mes; coordinating with the schools’ management teams; and connecting with youth and families through WhatsApp calls, Zoom calls, and home visits when and where necessary. Mr. Speaker, the Gang Violence Reduction Team has coordinated support for several families in need by connecting them to weekly food and basic needs support, court support and social assistance where required. Since the Gang Violence Reduction Team cannot access young men in the school setting, 4200 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly the team will continue to visit neighbou rhoods and encourage these young men when they come across them . Mr. Speaker, prior to COVID -19, the Gang Violence Reduction Team Coordinator and the Outreach and Prevention Manager led a mul ti-agency effort to reduce violence , and they were very hard at work. The team operates from a coordinated plan to tackle gang violence and antisocial behaviou r through a series of strategically designed prevention, intervention and rehabilitation programmes and initiatives. Our continuum of services focuses on prevention, community engagement, outreach, intervention and co llabor ation. Let us talk about, Mr. Speaker, the prevention program me. The team was working with the admi nistration and student services teams at the CedarBridge Academy and the Berkeley Institute, provid ing support services for at -risk students. The team was visiting the school daily , providing incident management support, mediation services, individual student support sessions and group sessions. Through these ongoing interactions, the Gang Violence Reduction Team , along with other service providers , are able to help these students reali se their self -worth and see many opportunities for self-improvement that were available to them. Mr. Speaker, t his team’s involvement in young people does not start at the high school level. The Gang Resistance Education and T raining Programme (G.R.E.A.T.) was rotating through [all public primary -6 and middle- 1 year levels ] in collaboration with the Bermuda Police Service and H. M. Customs. I am pleased to announce that several hundred of our young people were able to complete the G.R.E.A.T. program me prior to the pandemic. The Gang Violence Reduction Team , Targeted [Primary Prevention Initiative, Elliot Kings Group and Victor Scott Hype Kings ]. We have 32 young kings between the ages of 10 and 12, fully engaged [in] experienti al-based sessions that focus on building self-confidence, self-esteem, positive relationship - building skills , teamwork and building resilience. Adult Outreach and Intervention. Mr. Speaker, outside of the school initiatives , the Gang Violence Reduction Team focused on lowering community te nsions . The team also focuses on prison outreach, street -level outreach, mediations, court support, negotiations, incident management support and restorative justice . Another Gang Violence Reduction Team initi ative is Redemption Farm , which has provided 10 young men successful engagement , and the pr ogram me lasted for 28 weeks , which included personal development sessions, case management sessions, farming lessons, life skills workshops, counselling and a connection to other social support services. The Gang Violence Reduction Team are now working with the trainees with the goal of seeing each of them tran-sition into full- time education and employment opportunities. Mr. Speaker, Community Engagement . The Gang Violence Reduc tion Team relationship with community partners and the community underscores that we have much important work to do. The team continues to create and partner with community initiatives such as Mothers on a Mission [MOM] Bermuda, the Clergy Working Group, Living Legends Communi-ty Group, Interagency Gang Enforcement Team, C oordinated Case Management Systems and Coord inated Crisis Response Team. The Gang Violence Reduction Team attends many community meetings and community events , and provides tons of comm unity presentations. Mr. Speaker, at this time I would like to publi cly announce the 2020 Live Love Life Art Competition winners in partnership with t he Masterworks Foundation, (thank you, Tom) , an initiative that was a part of the anti -violence campaign encouraging our community to stand up and express themselves through art to fight against violence in our communities. I would like to congratulate Austin Dowling for the work , “He Will Rescue Them,” a haunting painting of a boy gazing through smashed glass . He won the overall prize and received $2,000. Further winners included Keino Lambert , winning for Best Traditional Painting; JeShae Pace for Best Mixed Media piece ; Legend St evenson for Best Digital piece. Best Student 16 and Under was won by MSA student Kelsey DeSilva, and Student 12 and Under was won by Eshe HoldippLynch of West Pembroke School. Alshante Foggo took home the People’s Choice A ward for her piece, “I Trigger Love. ” Mr. Speaker, t he effects of the COVID -19 pandemic have necessitated the Ga ng Violence R eduction Team Strategic Plan around program mes to successfully reach the needs of our community. To that end, the team will immediately commit to (1) increas ing the number of outreach workers and community case managers; (2) increase street outreach; and (3) double the number of placements available for work placement and mentoring programmes this summer. Mr. Speaker, the events of the l ast weekend are not just a Government problem. This is a comm unity problem. Statistically, violence and criminal activ ity increase during the summer months. And w ith the added anxieties caused by COVID -19, we must all do everything that we can to ensure that we do not return to the crime levels experienced in previous years. The Gang Violence Reduction Team continues to make positive influences with our at -risk population; however, this work alone will not save our young men. As a community , we know these young men. They are our family members, our brothers, our cousins and our friends. I implore all of us who love this country to continue to support the Gang Violence R eduction Team through meaningful assistance with the
Bermuda House of Assembly work required to rid our home of gang culture and senseless violence. The COVID -19 pandemic has been a challenging time for Bermuda, and our at -risk young people have not been excluded from our challenge. We need to collectively support them. Mr. Speaker, it is vitally important that the parents and families continue to be involved with their sons and daughters. Parents should engage with their children often. Ask them how they are doing and be involved in their day-to-day life. Parents and families must be aware of the social gatherings their children are attending. Seeking out activities and events that you and your children can enjoy together will help to strengthen your family relationships, thereby reducing the likelihood of gang involvement and antisocial b ehavio ur. Mr. Speaker, our churches must continue to look at ways that they can support their communities outside of the church walls, specifically to engage with young people. Throughout the COVID -19 recovery, sports clubs must develop strategically designed pr ogram mes that engage displaced young people, diver ting them away from antisocial behaviour . Members of the community should seek to ally with helping age ncies such as the Family Centre, Big Brothers Big Si sters of Bermuda, t he Coalition for the Protection of Children , Gina Spence Productions or any other of our numerous charities providing meaningful program mes or social interactions for our young people. Mr. Speaker, as our economy begins to recover from COVID -19, business owners are encouraged to create summer internships and mentoring opportunities for young Bermudians. The causes of violence in our community are multi -faceted and therefore require a solution that can only be found with an all- hands -on-deck community approach. The Government and the Ministry of National Security are working endlessly to combat the social ills that we are faced with. We are calling for peace, cal m, collectivity and the support of the community in order to defeat both COVID -19 and gang and gun- related violence in our community. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Minister. The next Statement this morning is that in the name of the Minister of Labour. Minister Hayward. Hon. Jason Hayward: Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYes, good morning, Minister. VISION FOR THE MINISTRY OF LABOUR Hon. Jason Hayward: Good morning. Today I will outline the vision for the Ministry of Labour , moving forward. I will describe some of the exciting initiatives occurring in the departments under the Ministry and some of the initiatives already …
Yes, good morning, Minister.
VISION FOR THE MINISTRY OF LABOUR
Hon. Jason Hayward: Good morning. Today I will outline the vision for the Ministry of Labour , moving forward. I will describe some of the exciting initiatives occurring in the departments under the Ministry and some of the initiatives already in place to attempt to encourage business growth in Bermuda. The overarching aim of the Ministry of Labour will be the expansion of jobs within Bermuda. The country is at a critical stage as the world and economies around the globe reel from the COVID -19 global pandemic. It is now even more i mportant for Bermuda to focus on expanding the economy. This is the best way to see an expansion in jobs. We must develop Bermudians for the jobs and c areers of the future in this country. Bermudians should be provided with opportunities to develop and grow skill sets that they do not have. Mr. Speaker, work has been underway for a number of years in the area of revising, updating and expanding the labour laws in this country. The Government will shortly introduce a consolidated Labour Law Act that will modernise, strengthen and enhance the rights of employers and employees, and revise the labour disputes mechanism in Bermuda. In addition, work is being done to revise and improve the prov isions of the Employment Act 2000. Both of these l egislative changes are a long time coming and have had substantial input from employers, trade union repr esentatives and the Government over the years. Mr. Speaker, in line with Bermuda’s National Workforce Development Plan, one of the priorities moving f orward is the development of formal agreements with the business community identifying experiential learning for students. Work also is to be done on improving the resilience of the department and better alignment of efforts with the Bermuda College. Mr. Speaker, Bermuda’s National Workforce Development Plan prioritises engagement with industry stakeholders to gain a better understanding of employers’ talent needs. A workforce development sy stem must be employer driven. For the workforce development system to realise its full potential, emplo yers must be embraced as partners in the system. There must be an increased level of interaction be-tween industry stakeholders and organisations within the workforce development system at all levels. Mr. Speaker, the staff at the Department of Financial Assistance have worked tirelessly over the last several months during COVID -19 and will conti nue to do so as the department readies itself for i ncreased demand of its services. Financial Assistance has the challenge of continuing to find operational i mprovements within the department, along with revising the formula and approach for how it provides its social benefits to its clients. There is an opportunity for F inancial Assistance to provide necessary social safety nets while empowering individuals who receive services. The department will undertake reform in these areas in the coming months. Mr. Speaker, the work which was started under Minister Caines on immigration reform will conti nue uninterrupted. Regarding the policy and legislative work undertaken, the Repatriation and Mixed Status Families Bill will be enacted and the department will 4202 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly eventually begin accepting these applications. The focus of reforms will also include a review of the current work permit policy to be undertaken by the Imm igration Board, led by MP Renee Ming. In addition, work on the issue of Permanent Resident Certificate holders will be progressed by the Bipartisan Immigr ation Reform Working Group, which will be chaired by Senator Crystal Caesar. We also look forward to working with the BermudaFirst group on their innovative ideas to make immigration processing more efficient. The concept of introducing a pilot programme for the approval of work permit applications for good corporate citizens, with the aim of promoting the stability and advancement of Bermudians in their own country, is still underway. Mr. Speaker, the Department of Immigration also worked with international business for the last 18 months to improve and streamline the work permit process. KPMG was retained to work with Immigration staff to identify and solve process challenges, and I am pleased to report that the vast majority of the op-portunities identified have now been implemented. Mr. Speaker, since the conclusion of the engagement, additional improvements have been made and will continue to be rolled out over the coming weeks. The next phase will be to push further for the full automation of the department. Mr. Speaker, the Government of Bermuda is committed to retaini ng and growing jobs for Bermudians in the international companies sector. While there have been layoffs and job losses in many sectors of our workforce, Bermudians employed by international companies largely continue to work. Bermudians make up almost two- thirds of the workforce in intern ational business. We must do all that we can to keep these jobs and companies here in Bermuda. It is worth noting that the Department of Immigration has a new business work permit policy that enables exempt company start -ups to simply obtain the required number of work permits during the first six months of their operations in Bermuda. In addition, the global work permit policy allows positions to be easily moved from overseas offices to Bermuda. These immigration pol icies a im to entice international companies to come to Bermuda and base as many jobs in Bermuda as pos-sible. Mr. Speaker, in addition, the Government is enacting financial incentives for international business to grow the workforce in Bermuda. For existing companies, there are exemptions for payroll tax for new jobs created, and in the future exemptions for social insurance and pension contributions for a period of one year will be introduced. These polices help r educe the cost of employing people in Bermuda and can aid in growing Bermuda’s economy. Mr. Speaker, we continue to reap the benefits of the international business community’s presence. Beyond employing many Bermudians directly, the i nternational sector engages many local companies which employ Bermudi ans, and makes substantial contributions to the third sector. It is the vision of the Ministry of Labour to comprehensively engage e mployers, labour and government to reinvigorate the Bermuda economy, which benefits everyone. Thank you.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Minister. That brings us now to the close of Statements for this morning. REPORTS OF COMMITTEES
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThere are no reports of committees. QUESTION PERIOD
The SpeakerThe SpeakerWe will now move to questions for the day, and the time is now 10:36. A nd you know we have 60 minutes for our questions. The first questions this morning are the written questions. We have, I think, four different written questions from Members this morning. The first is …
We will now move to questions for the day, and the time is now 10:36. A nd you know we have 60 minutes for our questions. The first questions this morning are the written questions. We have, I think, four different written questions from Members this morning. The first is the written questions from MP Dunkley to the Minister of Finance. There are three questions, I believe each requiring an oral response. Mr. Dunkley, would you like to put your questions?
QUESTION 1: UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFIT — NUMBER OF INDIVIDUALS WHO APPLIED Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and good morning, colleagues. To the Honourable Minister: Will the Honourable Minister please inform the Honourable House the total number of individuals who applied for unemployment benefits each week from the beginning of the benefit until the week ending May 29, 2020?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMinister. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Good morning, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerGood morning. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker, on the week ended the 27 th of March 2020 there were 2,212 ind ividuals. On the week ending the 3rd of April 2020, there were 5,755. The week ending the 10th of April, 3,114. The week ending the 17th of April, …
Good morning. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker, on the week ended the 27 th of March 2020 there were 2,212 ind ividuals. On the week ending the 3rd of April 2020, there were 5,755. The week ending the 10th of April, 3,114. The week ending the 17th of April, 1,388. The 24th of April, 1,527. And the 2nd of May, 777. The 8th of May, 372. The 15th of May, 153. The 22nd of May, 86. The 29th of May, 57. T he 5th of June, 57. The 12th of June, 26.
Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Thank you, Honourable Minister. Supplementary, Mr. Speaker?
Bermuda House of Assembly The Speaker: Supplementary. Yes.
SUPPLEMENTARIES
Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the Honourable Minister: Is the unemplo yment benefit available for 16 weeks for anyone laid off now or in the near future?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMinister. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: The benefit is available to those persons who are laid off commencing on the date the legislation went int o effect, which was on the 24 th, I believe, of March.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerSupplementary or new question? Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: For clarity. So is the Minister saying that the 24 th of March . . . anybody laid off from that period going forward until the benef it ends is eligible for the benefit? Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker, inasmuch as …
Supplementary or new question?
Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: For clarity. So is the Minister saying that the 24 th of March . . . anybody laid off from that period going forward until the benef it ends is eligible for the benefit?
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker, inasmuch as those persons remain unemployed, yes.
Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Okay. Thank you. Supplementary to the Honourable Minister.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerSecond supplementary. Hon. M ichael H. Dunkley: Yes. Thank you. Minister, can an employer bring back one currently laid- off employee and then lay off another one?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMinister. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker, the policy position on this benefit is for persons who ar e laid off as a result of COVID -19. I would hope that employers are not trying to be clever in the application of this po licy. The objective of the benefit …
Minister. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker, the policy position on this benefit is for persons who ar e laid off as a result of COVID -19. I would hope that employers are not trying to be clever in the application of this po licy. The objective of the benefit is to provide support for those persons who find themselves out of work as a result of the economic impact of COVID -19. I am challenged to kind of understand why an employer would want to bring one person back in or-der to lay another person off. But the circumstances may have some rationale that is easily understood; I just cannot conceive of that const ruct in my mind right now.
Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Thank you, Minister. I can have a conversation offline.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerSupplementary? Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: No more supplementary. Second question.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerSecond question. Okay. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Supplementary on that first answer, Mr. Speaker, if I may.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerBeg your pardon? You would like a supplementary on this last answer, on the Minister’s answer? Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Yes, if I could.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerGo a head. SUPPLEMENTARIES Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Minister, given the three amounts, the early applicants, of 2,200, 5,700, 3,100 (approximately) applicants, have those numbers been sterilised to account for your indication earlier that there may have been some duplications and the like? Hon. Curtis …
Go a head.
SUPPLEMENTARIES
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Minister, given the three amounts, the early applicants, of 2,200, 5,700, 3,100 (approximately) applicants, have those numbers been sterilised to account for your indication earlier that there may have been some duplications and the like?
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker, they have been.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, sir.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: If I may, a second supplem entary, Mr. Speaker?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerIs that the second supplementary? Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Yes, sir.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerOkay. Do your second supplementary. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Yes, sir. Is the Minister confirming that collectively that these numbers would represent the total number of applicants that we thought? Or are we talking about in some weeks that might have been a different applic ation? In other words, …
Okay. Do your second supplementary.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Yes, sir. Is the Minister confirming that collectively that these numbers would represent the total number of applicants that we thought? Or are we talking about in some weeks that might have been a different applic ation? In other words, once an application has gone through, is that one application determined to be the application? Or if somebody applies a second time or a third time, are those numbers sanitised?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMinister. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker, the question that I was presented with from the Honourable Member related to the number of individuals who applied. I think that we start to get down a slippery slope when we start talking about using different language than the question that was …
Minister. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker, the question that I was presented with from the Honourable Member related to the number of individuals who applied. I think that we start to get down a slippery slope when we start talking about using different language than the question that was posed to me. The question that I have answered relates to individuals who have r e4204 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly ceived the benef it, not to persons who have made applications.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Honourable Members will be reminded that I had advised folks that we had had up to 38,000 applications. The 38,000 represents a number of people going into t he system and failing to properly complete an application on a number of oc-casions. And the …
Thank you. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Honourable Members will be reminded that I had advised folks that we had had up to 38,000 applications. The 38,000 represents a number of people going into t he system and failing to properly complete an application on a number of oc-casions. And the data clean- up exercise that we have done is to try to isolate those individuals who are linked with the number of applications. So the data that I presented . . . the answer to the question that was presented to me was with r espect to individuals who had received payments.
[Crosstalk]
Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Point of clarity.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerWell, before we do that, let us just e mphasise the fact that the response from the Minister should relate to the question that was put. Even sup-plementaries should relate to the original question because the Minister has gone through the effort of trying to put together responses to that …
Well, before we do that, let us just e mphasise the fact that the response from the Minister should relate to the question that was put. Even sup-plementaries should relate to the original question because the Minister has gone through the effort of trying to put together responses to that question that was originally asked. So w e should not waiver from the gist of what the original questions were.
Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Point of clarity, though?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMm-hmm. POINT OF CLARIFICATION Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: The Honourable Minister just said . . . Sorry, the original question that was asked was the total number of individuals who had applied for the unemployment benefit. The second question actually refers to the total number of people paid weekly, and …
The SpeakerThe SpeakerNo. We can deal with that under the second question. Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Well, the Minister just made a comment that his answer was in relation to the people who had been paid. And I do not believe that is the case.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerLet us deal with it i n context of the questions that were asked. We can get to that in the second question. Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Okay. That is why I asked for clarity. So, second question, Mr. Speaker?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerSecond question. QUESTION 2: UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFIT — TOTA L NUMBER OF PEOPLE AND AMOUNT PAID WEEKLY Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Thank you. To the Honourable Minister: Please inform this Honourable House the total number of people paid weekly and the total amount paid each week from the start of the …
Second question.
QUESTION 2: UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFIT — TOTA L NUMBER OF PEOPLE AND AMOUNT PAID WEEKLY
Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Thank you. To the Honourable Minister: Please inform this Honourable House the total number of people paid weekly and the total amount paid each week from the start of the unemployment be nefit with the week ending May 29, 2020.
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYes, Minister. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: For the week ended the 3 rd of April 2020, there were 2,117 payments made, aggregating $1,740,375.22. On the 10th of Apr il, 1,256 payments were made, aggregating $1,119,034.46. On the 17th of April, 5,463 payments were made, aggr egating $4,812,737. On the 2nd …
Yes, Minister.
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: For the week ended the 3 rd of April 2020, there were 2,117 payments made, aggregating $1,740,375.22. On the 10th of Apr il, 1,256 payments were made, aggregating $1,119,034.46. On the 17th of April, 5,463 payments were made, aggr egating $4,812,737. On the 2nd of May, 7,379 payments aggrega ting $7,473,669.28. On the 15th of May, 6,732 pa yments aggregating $6,580,669.69. On the 22nd of May, 248 payments aggregating $322,915.42. On the 29 th of May, 7,779 payments aggregating $9,209,923.43.
Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Supplementary?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerSupplementary? Yes. SUPPLEMENTARIES Hon. Michael H. Dunkle y: Yes, thank you. To the Honourable Minister: What protocol is in place to audit payments to ensure mistakes are not made, or, if they are made (which can be expected from time to time), how they will be rectified?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMinister. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: The audit process is that we have tried to have each person in their applic ations use a unique identifier, that being their social insurance number. That process is not failsafe. And so there is a review that is done by the team who is …
Minister. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: The audit process is that we have tried to have each person in their applic ations use a unique identifier, that being their social insurance number. That process is not failsafe. And so there is a review that is done by the team who is responsi ble for authorising payments. And they go back and retroactively look at all the payments with a view towards understanding if duplicate payments have been made. Inasmuch as individuals have been overpaid, there is an outreach effort that extends to calli ng those persons to request that those monies be paid back.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Minister. Bermuda House of Assembly Supplementary? Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Thank you to the Minister. Supplementary, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYes. Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: In relation, but on a different matter, I am aware of incorrect payments in regard to individuals who have gone back to work and the staff at the department have been very helpful to m yself when people approach me and I point it out. …
Yes.
Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: In relation, but on a different matter, I am aware of incorrect payments in regard to individuals who have gone back to work and the staff at the department have been very helpful to m yself when people approach me and I point it out. So what is the protocol in place to corr ect these errors going forward?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMinister. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Inasmuch as there conti nues to be a learning with respect to each incremental week, each new payment cycle, the controls are tightened up to ensure that we can identify cases where there may be more than one payment going to a person. But we …
Minister. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Inasmuch as there conti nues to be a learning with respect to each incremental week, each new payment cycle, the controls are tightened up to ensure that we can identify cases where there may be more than one payment going to a person. But we just try to kind of make sure that the pa yments are made appropriately to the persons who are responsible for receiving them.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerOkay. Thank you. Is there a supplementary? Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: I have no more, unless colleagues do.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerOkay. Would you like to go to your third question? Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Yes, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYour third question. QUESTION 3: UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFIT — NUMBER OF OUTSTANDING APPLICATIONS Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Thank you. Honourable Minister, please inform this Ho nourable House, how many applications were outstanding at the end of each week starting from when the unemployment benefit began up until the week ending May …
Your third question.
QUESTION 3: UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFIT — NUMBER OF OUTSTANDING APPLICATIONS
Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Thank you. Honourable Minister, please inform this Ho nourable House, how many applications were outstanding at the end of each week starting from when the unemployment benefit began up until the week ending May 29 th?
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: For the week ending the 3rd of April 2020, Mr. Speaker, 452. The 10th of April, 2,947. The 17th of April, 2,527. The 24th of April, 3,613. The 2nd of May, 1,896. The 8th of May, 1,728. The 15th of May, 1,552. The 22nd of May, 1,227. The 29th of May, 312.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Supplementary? Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Yes, supplementary, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerGo ahead. SUPPLEMENTARIES Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: To the Honourable Mini ster: How many staff have worked on this programme, and now that Government is fully open or almost fully open for business, will that impact the staff required to continue to run this programme?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMinister. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker, there were two teams that were working on this in the Depar tment of Workforce Development. There was a team that at one point included in excess of 90 people. And then there was a special, dedicated team that worked within the Ministry …
Minister.
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker, there were two teams that were working on this in the Depar tment of Workforce Development. There was a team that at one point included in excess of 90 people. And then there was a special, dedicated team that worked within the Ministry of Finance, which was approx imately . . . which wa s five people.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Supplementary? Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Yes, supplementary, Mr. Speaker. To the Honourable Minister: The Gover nment has announced that the programme has been extended from 12 to 16 weeks. It appears likely that layoffs will continue for an extended period of time because the opening and getting back …
Thank you. Supplementary? Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Yes, supplementary, Mr. Speaker. To the Honourable Minister: The Gover nment has announced that the programme has been extended from 12 to 16 weeks. It appears likely that layoffs will continue for an extended period of time because the opening and getting back to a different normal will be slow. What consideration has Government had for extending this programme past 16 weeks or creating another programme to deal with the unemployment challenges we will have for the next nine months to a year?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMinister. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker, at this point the Government has announced its intention to extend the benefit programme from 12 weeks to 16 weeks. Any fu rther announcements will be made by the Mini ster of Labour and myself in due course.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Supplementary? Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: I am finished, Mr. Speaker, unless colleagues have any.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerOkay. Thank you for your questions . No Member seems to indicate they have a question. We will move on to the next written question this morning. The next written question is from MP Simons to Minister De Silva. 4206 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly …
The SpeakerThe SpeakerGood morning. QUESTION 1: BERMUDA’S COMPLIANCE WITH MARPOL AND BUNKERS CONVENTION
Mr. N. H. Cole SimonsGood morning to you. Will the Honourable Minister please inform this Honourable House what procedures the Gover nment has in place when ships are in port or traverse Bermuda’s territorial waters to ensure that these ships adhere to MARPOL standards and conventions, and the Bunkers Convention?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Minister. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThese are oral responses. So continue, Minister. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Many of the international maritime organis ations’ (also known as the IMO) most important tec hnical conventions, including the Bunkers Convention, have provisions for ships to be inspected when they visit foreign ports …
These are oral responses. So continue, Minister. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Many of the international maritime organis ations’ (also known as the IMO) most important tec hnical conventions, including the Bunkers Convention, have provisions for ships to be inspected when they visit foreign ports to ensure that they meet IMO r equirements. These inspections are called port state control (or PSC) inspections. And in Bermuda these inspections are undertaken by techn ical officers within the Bermuda Shipping and Maritime Authority. There are nine regional PSC memorandum of understanding [MOU] agreements that have been signed. And Bermuda became a member of the Caribbean MOU PSC in June 2018. And under the agreement, B ermuda is required to complete a minimum of 15 PSC inspections per year.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Minister. Is there a supplementary?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYou can put your supplementary. SUPPLEMENTARIES
Mr. N. H. Cole SimonsMr. S peaker, is there a pr ocedure to ensure that each ship is inspected to ensure that they adhere to the MARPOL standards and the Bunkers Convention? And what is the status of the team that does this examination?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMinister. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silv a: Well, he actually asks that in his second question, Mr. Speaker. But as far as the size of the team goes, we have four local surveyors, technical officers. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: I have a suppl ementary, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerSupplementar y? Yes, put your suppl ementary. SUPPLEMENTARY Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, sir. Mr. Speaker, the Minister indicated that there were 15 PSC inspections required as per our signing up with the convention. My question is, How is the allocati on determined, and do we have the …
Supplementar y? Yes, put your suppl ementary.
SUPPLEMENTARY Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, sir. Mr. Speaker, the Minister indicated that there were 15 PSC inspections required as per our signing up with the convention. My question is, How is the allocati on determined, and do we have the demand for us to provide the 15 [inspections] that we are r equired to do so by the signing on to that convention?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMinister. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Sorry, Mr. Speaker. Can I have that question repeated, pl ease?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMember, can you repeat your question? Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Yes, certainly, Mr. Speaker. The Minister indicated that we were required to do 15 PSC inspections as a result of our signing on to the Caribbean treaty. My questi on is, How are the allocations done to ensure that …
Member, can you repeat your question? Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Yes, certainly, Mr. Speaker. The Minister indicated that we were required to do 15 PSC inspections as a result of our signing on to the Caribbean treaty. My questi on is, How are the allocations done to ensure that we fulfil our 15 [i nspec tions] that we are required to do under the convention that we have signed?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Minister. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: I will undertake to get that for the Honourable Member, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Minister. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAny other supplementaries? No other supplementaries. Member, would you like to do your second question? QUESTION 2: BE RMUDA’S COMPLIANCE WITH MARPOL AND BUNKERS CONVENTION
Mr. N. H. Cole SimonsWill the Honourable Minister please inform this Honourable House, what verific aBermuda House of Assembly tion process does the Government have in place to verify and ensure that all ships traversing our i ntern ational waters and entering our ports have environmental impairment insurance which covers all environmental impairment risks, …
Will the Honourable Minister please inform this Honourable House, what verific aBermuda House of Assembly tion process does the Government have in place to verify and ensure that all ships traversing our i ntern ational waters and entering our ports have environmental impairment insurance which covers all environmental impairment risks, including pollution risks? So the question is, What procedures do we have to ensure that these ships have the insurance?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Minister. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Okay. Was that last question just a summary of the first one? Or was it the second one, Mr. Speaker?
Mr. N. H. Cole SimonsIt was a summary. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: All right. Mr. Speaker, f or land-based businesses, there is a relatively new i nsurance product that has entered the market known as environmental impairment liability insurance, com-monly known as EIL, that provides cover for clean- up costs and legal …
It was a summary. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: All right. Mr. Speaker, f or land-based businesses, there is a relatively new i nsurance product that has entered the market known as environmental impairment liability insurance, com-monly known as EIL, that provides cover for clean- up costs and legal defence. Although it does not c over fines, it can cover third- party costs for damages to neighbouring land and, potentially, compensation for any loss of business suffered as a result. For maritime operations, registered owners of any seagoing vessels over 1,000 gross tons of any type being registered in a state party to the Bunkers Convention or entering or leaving port in the territory of a state party are required to maintain insurance which meets the requirements of the convention. Such ships are required to carry a certificate of i nsurance to show that they have the necessary compulsory insurance cover required by the convention. For ships entering Bermuda ports, the verif ication of insurance is included, and part of the port state controlled inspection described in my response to the first question. Article 6 of the Bunkers Convention provides that a shipowner is entitled to limit his liability to amounts provided for under applicable national or i nternational regimes such as the Convention on Limit ation of Liability for Maritime Claims 1976. And this coverage is generally provided by the P&I clubs subject to certain provisos.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Minister. Is it a supplementary or move on to your next question?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerSupplementar y, yes. SUPPLEMENTARY
Mr. N. H. Cole SimonsSo can the Minister confirm that the inspectors actually, as part of their inspection, look at the insurance certificates for each ship that comes in to ensure that the insurance policy is current and in order ? Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Yes.
Mr. N. H. Cole SimonsOkay. That is my only question on that. Thank you. Everybody else is invited to ask a suppl emental.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYou moved ahead of me there, Member. I was about to ask the question before I offer ed to do your third question. But since there has been no response, I assume that Members are quite comfortable with you going on to your third question. Would you like to put …
You moved ahead of me there, Member. I was about to ask the question before I offer ed to do your third question. But since there has been no response, I assume that Members are quite comfortable with you going on to your third question. Would you like to put your third question now?
QUESTION 3: BERMUDA’S COMPLIANCE WITH MARPOL AND BUNKERS CONVENTION
Mr. N. H. Cole SimonsWill the Honourable Minister please inform this Honourable House, if a ship is found to have inadequate insurance coverage, what remediation protocols are required, and how does the Government of Bermuda report these deficiencies and infractions under MARPOL and the Bunkers Conven-tion?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMinister. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Oh. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In general, a PSC inspector has a prescribed course of action that may be imposed on a ship with deficiencies. And they are as follows, in ascending order: • deficiencies can be rectified within 14 days for minor …
Minister.
Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Oh. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In general, a PSC inspector has a prescribed course of action that may be imposed on a ship with deficiencies. And they are as follows, in ascending order: • deficiencies can be rectified within 14 days for minor infractions; • under specific conditions, deficiencies can be rectified when the ship arrives at the next port; • deficiencies must be rectified before the ship can depart the port; and lastly, • detention of the ship occurs. However, insurance coverage is compulsory. And a copy of the insurance certificate is kept at the ship’s registry. Ships must normally provide the certif icate during the PSC inspection; therefore, it cannot trade without it. As a member of the Caribbean MOU on port state control, we are required to submit reports to the CMOU. The CMOU uses the information and data from the reports to undertake a comprehensive anal ysis of statistics rela ting to vehicles calling at Caribbean ports, as well as analysis of data on individual ship inspections. Risk assessment studies, combined with statistical research, provide results which are used to 4208 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly develop objectives and procedures for the continuous improvement of port state control performance.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Minister. Is there a supplementary?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerSupplementary. SUPPLEMENTARIES
Mr. N. H. Cole SimonsCan the Minister confirm whether ships that travers e our international waters, are required to provide evidence that they have met the MARPOL and Bunkers Convention even though they do not come to port? Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Yes.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerGo ahead. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: I just explained it. Mr. Speaker, I can read the paragraph again if you like.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerOkay. Read it again. Hon. Zane J. S. D e Silva: Okay. As a member of the Caribbean MOU (also known as the CMOU) on port state control, we are required to submit reports to the CMOU. The CMOU uses this information and data from the reports to undertake a …
Okay. Read it again. Hon. Zane J. S. D e Silva: Okay. As a member of the Caribbean MOU (also known as the CMOU) on port state control, we are required to submit reports to the CMOU. The CMOU uses this information and data from the reports to undertake a comprehensive anal ysis of statistics rel ating to vessels calling at Caribbean ports, as well as analysis of data on individual ship inspections. Risk assessment studies, combined with statistical research, provide results —and I say again, provide results which are used to develop objectives and procedures for the continuous improvement of port state control performance.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Minister. Is this a supplementary now?
Mr. N. H. Cole SimonsYes. He talks about port pr ocedures. I am talki ng about ships that pass through our international waters that do not stop here and they may have a potential risk of pollution. So they do not have to come in port; they traverse our international waters. How do we …
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMinister. Yes. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Mr. Speaker, I will read the second paragraph when I answered the question. And it answers that particular question directly.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerGo ahead. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: It says, However, insu rance coverage is —and I will say this a little bit loud, Mr. Speaker —compulsory. And a copy of the insurance certificate is kept at the ship’s registry. Ships must provide the certificate during the PSC inspection; therefore …
Go ahead.
Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: It says, However, insu rance coverage is —and I will say this a little bit loud, Mr. Speaker —compulsory. And a copy of the insurance certificate is kept at the ship’s registry. Ships must provide the certificate during the PSC inspection; therefore . . . Mr. Speaker, therefore, it ca nnot trade without it.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYes, Minister. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: I just wanted to confirm, I think it was Honourable Member Pat Gordon- Pamplin who asked about how the 15 inspections are determined. I have the answer for that. And they are determined—
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYou did indicate that you would get the answer. If you have it, I will allow you to give it now. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, ships are selected for inspection based on their PSC history and determined risk. In other words, if …
You did indicate that you would get the answer. If you have it, I will allow you to give it now.
Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, ships are selected for inspection based on their PSC history and determined risk. In other words, if one has a poor record, then they are moved up the list of ships that are chosen to be i nspected.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMm-hmm. Okay. Thank you. Member who asked the question, are you satisfied with that? [Crosstalk] Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: No, sir.
Mr. N. H. Cole SimonsI am; thank you. Bermuda House of Assembly The Speaker: No. MP Gordon- Pamplin put that question. Are you satisfied with that answer? Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: No. The answer is just a little unclear, because the Minister has just ind icated that the ships are selected based on …
I am; thank you.
Bermuda House of Assembly The Speaker: No. MP Gordon- Pamplin put that question. Are you satisfied with that answer?
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: No. The answer is just a little unclear, because the Minister has just ind icated that the ships are selected based on their port history and the like. How do we verify, how do we ensure that we provide 15 inspections? That is my question. Because clearly, if I can just expand for a little bit, Mr. Speaker, if a ship is inspect ed, let us say they left the port in wherever other jurisdiction, it left that port, and they were inspected there. That ship then comes to Bermuda. And we do not have to inspect it, presumably, because it was already inspected at the prior port. So how is the allocation done so that we know that we can conform to our requirement to do 15 inspections? That is the question. I just want to make sure that we have the allocation of, you know, the ships. So in other words, if a ship is done somewhere else, we do not have to do it here. How do we know that with those allocations we will meet our quota of 15? That was the question.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMinister, would you like to respond, or would you like to, as you originally indicated, get the answer for her later? Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: No. The 15 . . . it is pretty simple, Mr. Speaker. We have 147 ships on our registry. And the obviously the …
Minister, would you like to respond, or would you like to, as you originally indicated, get the answer for her later?
Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: No. The 15 . . . it is pretty simple, Mr. Speaker. We have 147 ships on our registry. And the obviously the ones with the most impeccable records are way down the list of those that we inspect. It is just like any other organisatio n, Mr. Speaker. One is s elected based on their history. If one’s history is impeccable, then obviously they will be the last to be i nspected. Hopefully, that will help the Honourable Member.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerOkay. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: That is goo d, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. All right. Now that brings us to the end of the questions from MP Simons. The next question is from MP GordonPamplin to the Finance Minister. But it asks for a wri tten response and not an oral respons e. So my simple question is, Has the written …
Thank you. All right. Now that brings us to the end of the questions from MP Simons. The next question is from MP GordonPamplin to the Finance Minister. But it asks for a wri tten response and not an oral respons e. So my simple question is, Has the written response been provided? Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: I have not r eceived it, Mr. Speaker. But that does not say it has not been sent. I have not seen it.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerOkay. Minister of Finance, do you know if it has been forwarded to the Member? Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker, the answer to this question has been prepared for weeks. And so the notion that it has not been sent to the Honourable Member is of great concern to …
Okay. Minister of Finance, do you know if it has been forwarded to the Member? Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker, the answer to this question has been prepared for weeks. And so the notion that it has not been sent to the Honourable Member is of great concern to me. I can give her the answer verbally if she would like.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerWell, no. We will make sure it gets sent to her because if we do it verbally, then we have to entertain a verbal response. And this is not for a verbal response. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Right. [Crosstalk] Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: I will just let you know that …
Well, no. We will make sure it gets sent to her because if we do it verbally, then we have to entertain a verbal response. And this is not for a verbal response.
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Right.
[Crosstalk]
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: I will just let you know that I have in front of me the memorandum that was pr epared and sent, supposedly sent to the House of A ssembly with the answer on it. So I will check with the technical officers to see what has happened, because there seems to be a number of issues this morning. [Crosstalk]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMy technical officer just indicated to me that the answer is on the SharePoint site for Members. So, MP Gordon- Pamplin, if you look on the site, it will be there. It is there. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you very much. I appreciate it. QUESTION: FACILITY AGREEMENT 2020 …
My technical officer just indicated to me that the answer is on the SharePoint site for Members. So, MP Gordon- Pamplin, if you look on the site, it will be there. It is there.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you very much. I appreciate it.
QUESTION: FACILITY AGREEMENT 2020 — CHAMBERS AND LEGAL COSTS
Hon. Patrici a J. Gordon -Pamplin: Will the Honourable Minister please inform this Honour able House the name(s) of the attorney chambers and legal costs associated with the Facility Agreement 2020 between local financial instit utions and the Government of Bermuda?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAnd the next question again is from MP Gordon- Pamplin to the Deputy Premier. And this is again for a written response. My simple question again is, Have you r eceived your response? Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Mr. Speaker, it obviously with this new [INAUDIBLE] policy I guess — …
And the next question again is from MP Gordon- Pamplin to the Deputy Premier. And this is again for a written response. My simple question again is, Have you r eceived your response? Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Mr. Speaker, it obviously with this new [INAUDIBLE] policy I guess — [Crosstalk]
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: I was not aware that that is where the answer would be. But I am now guided. Thank you, sir.
4210 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly QUESTION: DEBT COLLECTORS — ESTABLISHED GUIDELINES
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Will the Honourable Minister please provide to this Honourable House the established guidelines for Debt Collectors?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerOkay. Thank you. All right. That brings us to an end of the written questions this morning. We have 28 minutes and 40- some seconds left in this time for questions. So we will move on to the questions from the Statements this morning. The first Statement this morning was …
Okay. Thank you. All right. That brings us to an end of the written questions this morning. We have 28 minutes and 40- some seconds left in this time for questions. So we will move on to the questions from the Statements this morning. The first Statement this morning was in the name of Minister Foggo. Minister Foggo, there are three Members who have indicated that they would like to put questions to you. The first is the Opposition Leader. Honourable Member, would you like to put your question?
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I was having trouble with sound. I am assuming that you can hear me?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYes, we can. QUESTION 1: BERMUDA CHARITIES Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Thank you, and good morning colleagues and Bermuda. In her Statement, Minister Foggo mentioned the safety net has never been greater when referring to this third sector. My question then is, What are we doing? When she mentions “ …
Yes, we can.
QUESTION 1: BERMUDA CHARITIES
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Thank you, and good morning colleagues and Bermuda. In her Statement, Minister Foggo mentioned the safety net has never been greater when referring to this third sector. My question then is, What are we doing? When she mentions “ we are doing all we can to provide the support, ” can she be more specific about what she means by that, “ we are doing all we can to provide the support ”?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Minister. Hon. Lovitta F. Foggo: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes. In terms of a safety net, what the paper spoke to is the fact that many of the charities basically act as safety net s for those persons who are in need of them. And in terms of …
Thank you. Minister. Hon. Lovitta F. Foggo: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes. In terms of a safety net, what the paper spoke to is the fact that many of the charities basically act as safety net s for those persons who are in need of them. And in terms of providing support, we talked about restructuring, if you will, to some degree. And under the regulations that govern charities and organisations like NAMLC, we wish to restructure, but r estructur e it in a way that gives greater clarity to the public in terms of how they should access certain charities, how they can support charities so that you will find that people just do not reach out to any and every charity for support, but go to the specific charity that can cater to their needs. And also, in terms of allowing charities to move away from all of the duplication that we see in the numerous charities that are out there so that each specific charity itself can operate in a manner that enhances t heir ability to do the work that they do. I hope that answers your question.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Do you have a supplementary, Opposition Leader? Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Yes, supplementary.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYes. SUPPLEMENTARIES Hon. L. Craig Cannonie r: Okay. I guess outside of the four objectives, I mean there were four objectives. If you read in the paper, you will see where there is a forecast of 60- plus, maybe more than that, of charities that will go out due to …
Yes.
SUPPLEMENTARIES
Hon. L. Craig Cannonie r: Okay. I guess outside of the four objectives, I mean there were four objectives. If you read in the paper, you will see where there is a forecast of 60- plus, maybe more than that, of charities that will go out due to the economic circumstances that we are in. I guess what I was trying to understand a little more of is, outside of those four objectives I do not necessarily see how it is going to save the third sector. Were there some other things that they might be doing to assist? So for instance, to gi ve an example, are you planning on putting more money towards some as opposed to others?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMinister. Hon. Lovitta F. Foggo: Well, as you can appreciate, some charities, because of the way in which they help the public, require more monies. But we are going to try and assist charities in better organising to their o perations and the like. And in their outreach to the …
Minister.
Hon. Lovitta F. Foggo: Well, as you can appreciate, some charities, because of the way in which they help the public, require more monies. But we are going to try and assist charities in better organising to their o perations and the like. And in their outreach to the community, make their roles clearer so that the community at large understand better how they can ac-cess and utilise those chariti es for their benefit.
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Second supplementary.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerSecond supplementary, yes. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Yes. Okay. Understanding then that she plans on managing this better, and also in the Statement the Honourable Minister mentions managing— [Crosstalk] Hon. Lovitta F. Foggo: I am sorry. The Registrar General basically manages it, manages charities, just so that you know that. …
Second supplementary, yes.
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Yes. Okay. Understanding then that she plans on managing this better, and also in the Statement the Honourable Minister mentions managing—
[Crosstalk] Hon. Lovitta F. Foggo: I am sorry. The Registrar General basically manages it, manages charities, just so that you know that.
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Okay. So, well, you said that it falls under you as a Minister. So yo u are part of that management , because you are also giving direction to where you want to go as a goal with this here, of course, taking lead from civil servants.
Bermuda House of Assembly So then, if that is the case then, what is the matrix that you are using according to, I thi nk it was the second goal, in reducing the number of charities due to duplication? What is the matrix that you plan on using to assess who are the most effective pr ogrammes and services as opposed to less -effective programmes and services?
Hon. Lovitta F. Foggo: I am sure you can appreciate that I have just recently taken over this portfolio. I can speak to the great work thus far that has been done on charities under the guidance of the Caribbean Task Force, as well as under NMLAC and under the Regi strar General. And we will be going to look at that. And where we can make improvements, we will make those improvements. We will continue the good work so that we can continue to enjoy the high ratings that we have enjoyed.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerSupplementary , or a further question? Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Yes. I need a better understanding. So is there a matrix then—
The SpeakerThe SpeakerSorry. You had two supplementaries. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: I am sorry.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerSo you have to ask a second question. QUESTION 2: BERMUDA CHARITIES Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Second question, yes. Second question, yes. So the second question then would be, so are you aware of any matrix since you have stated as your goal to reduce the number of charities due …
So you have to ask a second question.
QUESTION 2: BERMUDA CHARITIES
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Second question, yes. Second question, yes. So the second question then would be, so are you aware of any matrix since you have stated as your goal to reduce the number of charities due to duplication of servic es? If that is a goal, are you sa ying that you have not identified as yet the matrix that you are going to use to be able to reduce that?
Hon. Lovitta F. Foggo: Here is what I will say. I will undertake to find out what model or models have been used in t he classification of charities and the like and share that with you.
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Fine.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerSupplementary? Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Thank you.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerNo supplementary? [No audible response]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerOkay. You are finished with your questions? Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Thank you.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThe next question, Minister, from you is from the Deputy Opposition Leader. Deputy Opposition Leader, would you like to put your question? QUESTION 1: BERMUDA CHARITIES
Ms. Leah K. ScottYes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. And I think I might be bordering on repeating what my O pposition Leader has asked. But my question is, in terms of a supportive regulatory framework for charities, and the reference to the overlapping of services, has or would Gover nment consider setting up …
Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. And I think I might be bordering on repeating what my O pposition Leader has asked. But my question is, in terms of a supportive regulatory framework for charities, and the reference to the overlapping of services, has or would Gover nment consider setting up a company or an entity that provides a triage service that consolidates Financial Assistance, Bermuda Housing Corporation and other helping government agencies so that, say I come to Financial Assistance. And while I am in Financial A ssistance, I might need housing. I have got some kids who have some issues. And the triage of the helping entities would then direct me to the Family Centre after I need this, or Kaleidoscope if I need education. And would that be a bet ter way of sort of (a) managing the entire process? It could reduce the number of charities that are having overlapping services. It would also give the Government better control over what is going on in the community and provide better data and statistics .
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMinister. Hon. Lovitta F. Foggo: In our reviewing of these structures, what I can say is that there is scope to consider that.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMinister, there is one other Member who has a question for you. MP Dunkley, would you like to put your question? QUESTIO N 1: BERMUDA CHARITIES Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Opposition Leader has talked and asked questions about the matrix that will be used. I …
Minister, there is one other Member who has a question for you. MP Dunkley, would you like to put your question?
QUESTIO N 1: BERMUDA CHARITIES
Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Opposition Leader has talked and asked questions about the matrix that will be used. I would like to get more specific. At the bottom of page 1, 4212 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly where the Honourable Minister ref ers to reducing charities’ duplication of effort and work, what duplic ation has been identified to date?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMinister. Hon. Lovitta F. Foggo: I can say, I will give you just an example. Even with some of the helping services like feeding and pro grammes like that, we see some duplication in that. So we are going to look at all of the charities, look at where there …
Minister. Hon. Lovitta F. Foggo: I can say, I will give you just an example. Even with some of the helping services like feeding and pro grammes like that, we see some duplication in that. So we are going to look at all of the charities, look at where there is duplication and then, working with charities, see how they can better serve the communities that they serve.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Supplementary? Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Yes, supplementary on that question, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYes. SUPPLEMENTARY Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: So obviously the Minister is new in this position. But what success have they made on reducing duplication where necessary so far? Hon. Lovitta F. Foggo: I cannot answer that question specifically. So I can check to see what success has been made thus …
Yes.
SUPPLEMENTARY Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: So obviously the Minister is new in this position. But what success have they made on reducing duplication where necessary so far?
Hon. Lovitta F. Foggo: I cannot answer that question specifically. So I can check to see what success has been made thus far.
Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: All right. Thank you. I appreciate the Minister’s commitment. Second ques tion.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerGo ahead. Second question. QUESTION 2: BERMUDA CHARITIES Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Yes. On the top of page 2, Mr. Speaker, the Minister says, “ensure that gover nment funding goes to the most effective programmes and services to achieve greater social impact.” Can the Minister inform the Honourable House what …
Go ahead. Second question.
QUESTION 2: BERMUDA CHARITIES Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Yes. On the top of page 2, Mr. Speaker, the Minister says, “ensure that gover nment funding goes to the most effective programmes and services to achieve greater social impact.” Can the Minister inform the Honourable House what the public officers who work within the Ministry and inform her are the most effective programmes and services at this point?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMinister. Hon. Lovitta F. Foggo: I am no t sure that I understood your question exactly.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerWell, if you can repeat the question for her. Hon. Lovitta F. Foggo: Yes, can you repeat that? Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Sure. The Minister’s bullet point says that the Government will “ensure t hat funding goes to the most effective programmes and services to achieve greater social impact.” What …
Well, if you can repeat the question for her. Hon. Lovitta F. Foggo: Yes, can you repeat that? Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Sure. The Minister’s bullet point says that the Government will “ensure t hat funding goes to the most effective programmes and services to achieve greater social impact.” What have been identified as the most effective programmes and services to date?
Hon. Lovitta F. Foggo: Okay. To answer that question, I will say at least un der my remit we are still r eviewing and assessing. And so, based on whatever data are received and after looking at everything, then we can make that judgment call then.
Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Supplementary.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYes, supplementary. SUPPLEMENT ARY Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Yes. So in regard to that answer, if the Minister is still reviewing, is it fair to say that the work of the former Minister has been discar ded and this is a new policy?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMinister. Hon. Lovitta F. Foggo: No. That is not fair to say. We will continue . . . I did say earlier in answering a question that we will continue to do the good work that has already been done. And where we believe modific ation may be necessary, then …
The SpeakerThe SpeakerOkay. Further supplementary or new question? Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: No, Mr. Speaker. The answers stand for themselves.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerOkay. Thank you. Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Thank you, sir.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMinister, thank you for your responses. The next Statement is from Minister Caines. Minister Caines, there are two Members who wish to put questions to you. The first is from the Opposition Whip. Honourable Member, would you like to put your question now? QUESTION 1: GANG VIOLENCE REDUCT ION TEAM …
Ms. Susan E. JacksonYes. Good morning, Mr. Speaker. I would just like to ask a question around the statement, on the first page of the Minister’s National Bermuda House of Assembly Security Statement. It says, “the videos circulating on social media of a large group of young people at John Smith’s Bay [were] …
Yes. Good morning, Mr. Speaker. I would just like to ask a question around the statement, on the first page of the Minister’s National
Bermuda House of Assembly Security Statement. It says, “the videos circulating on social media of a large group of young people at John Smith’s Bay [were] engaging serious violent behaviour.” So my question to the Minister of National Sec urity is, Where were the patrols on the public beach to encourage social distancing and therefore preventing large group gatherings?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMinister. Minister Caines. Hon. Wayne Caines: Thank you for that question. Mr. Speaker, the members of the Bermuda Regiment were there during the day. I was the first to say publicly on Monday . . . exc use me, Tuesday in the press conference that there were things that we …
Minister. Minister Caines.
Hon. Wayne Caines: Thank you for that question. Mr. Speaker, the members of the Bermuda Regiment were there during the day. I was the first to say publicly on Monday . . . exc use me, Tuesday in the press conference that there were things that we could have done differently operationally with reference to that matter. I also believe that understanding that hindsight is 20/20, we have over 14 beaches on the Island. And we had res ources that were on the water, as well as on the beaches. We had Bermuda Regiment soldiers who were present on that day. Bermuda Regiment soldiers, once they saw the mass escalating, they notified the Bermuda Police Service. Bermuda Police Service sent a response. The response that they sent at the time was a r esponse that I believe–– and remember that the oper ational side of policing and the Bermuda Regiment comes with —it lays with His Excellency the Governor. But I do say that the response could have been better. The Bermuda Regiment did notify the Bermuda Police Service at its earliest occasion. And the crowd did not disperse. The Bermuda Police Service did send a r esponse to deal with it, and the crowd did not disperse. And so we have looked at this thi ng, and we have tested and adjusted our position. We realise that we are going forward. We have about 10 more weeks left in the summer. And we saw the policing model change on Sunday. We saw the policing model on the water and at the beaches change on Sunday and Monday, going forward. And so it was indeed a lear ning lesson for all of us.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerOkay. Minister, the next Member who has a question for you is Member Smith. MP Smith, would you like to put your question?
Mr. Ben SmithYes. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and good morning. The Speaker: Good morning. QUESTION 1: GANG VIOLENCE REDUCTION TEAM RESPONSE TO HEROES WEEKEND INCIDENTS
Mr. Ben SmithFirstly, I would like to join the Minister in giving my condolences to the family of Mr. Rowse, who lost his life over the weekend. I, as the Mini ster [sic], will say that the weekend was not what we were expec ting with the amount of violence that was …
Firstly, I would like to join the Minister in giving my condolences to the family of Mr. Rowse, who lost his life over the weekend. I, as the Mini ster [sic], will say that the weekend was not what we were expec ting with the amount of violence that was going through our community.
Hon. Wayne Caines: As the Shadow Minister.
Mr. Ben SmithYes. So on page 10 of the Statement, Minister Caines, would you be able to give us a little bit more information around the increased number of outreach workers and community case workers? Do you have an idea of how many more are going to be needed in order for …
Yes. So on page 10 of the Statement, Minister Caines, would you be able to give us a little bit more information around the increased number of outreach workers and community case workers? Do you have an idea of how many more are going to be needed in order for us to tackle this situation?
Hon. Wayne Caines: Thank you for the question.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMinister. Hon. Wayne Caines: So to understand how this works, let me just give you a brief format of how it works if you can indulge me, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerGo ahead. Hon. Wayne Caines: We have a team, and we have broken down the Island into quadrants —east, west and central . The purpose of this is that we have wor kers who will . . . if there are issues and you need someone to go into the …
Go ahead.
Hon. Wayne Caines: We have a team, and we have broken down the Island into quadrants —east, west and central . The purpose of this is that we have wor kers who will . . . if there are issues and you need someone to go into the East End of the Island, you have people going into the East End of the Island and tackle, deal with, whether it is a flare up or dealing with gang nominals or family members who need support. And they direct them to helping agencies. They direct them to police support, or they tackle the concern in the community head- on. Over the last few months our strategy was a bit different. Remember, we had over a year where things had quieted down. So we moved the resources directly from community support to where everyone was working in the education phase in the schools, partnering in the schools or with the Redemption Farm. Because the model was that things had ratcheted down a bit in the community. Now that things have progressed up, we want to restart the farm. And we believe that we have Pastor Bean in the central parishes. And we had two gentlemen who work in the eastern and western parishes. We si mply need now, and we have the budget for it, to re- employ persons who worked in the eastern parish and the 4214 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly western parish along with volunteers and community support. So simply, Mr. Shadow Minister, that is the opportunity for us in key areas. We might need more in the central parishes. Or we see no more than three additional people on a part -time basis who are wor king in our community. Now remember, they are not working nine- to-five hours. They are at night when people are sitting on the wall. They are doing the ungodly hours, as we call them, going into our communities to sit, talk and take key information being a point of concern. If there is a stabbing, if there is a bike theft, these guys are in the belly of the beast taking information. What do they do? They take that information. They give it to a case manager. Oh, I want to get off drugs or I want to leave these gangs, and they co nnect them into the right helping and the right social support. But we have found that this has been a really signific ant connecting rod, getting information to the police, getting information to our helping agencies, making sure people have the right social and helping support. And we just want to get those people back in their places before things indeed . . . Let me rephrase that, to manage the situation and to help to quell it.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: I have a suppl ementary.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerIs this a supplementary? Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: I have a suppl ementary, Mr. Speaker. I am not sure if the Shadow Minister has.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerSupplementary. Okay, MP Gordon - Pamplin.
Mr. Ben SmithI have one, but I will let MP GordonPamplin go first.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerOkay. SUPPLEMENTARY Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Very quickly, for clarity. The Minister had indicated that they had se gregated the community or the Island into quadrants. But then he indicated east, west and central. Is he saying that there is a fourth piece that he has not ind icated? …
Okay.
SUPPLEMENTARY
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Very quickly, for clarity. The Minister had indicated that they had se gregated the community or the Island into quadrants. But then he indicated east, west and central. Is he saying that there is a fourth piece that he has not ind icated? Or are we talking about separating into segments? I just wanted clarity.
Hon. Wayne Caines: Segments.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Would you like to put your supplementary, MP Smith? SUPPLEMENTARY
Mr. Ben SmithThank you for the answer, Minister Caines. So with the answer that you just gave w hen you talked about where you had kind of shifted the (my word) priority , because the level of violence had kind of gone down in the last year, and prior to what we …
Thank you for the answer, Minister Caines. So with the answer that you just gave w hen you talked about where you had kind of shifted the (my word) priority , because the level of violence had kind of gone down in the last year, and prior to what we were dealing with in the pandemic, would you agree that there is a learning piece here that potentia lly we are going to have to continue the work that is being done by this group, even when we reach those levels where the numbers and incidents of violence go down?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMinister. Hon. Wayne Caines: I would respectfully disagree, and let me tell you why, MP Smith. We make decisions based on intelligence. We have an individual who is going . . . and the work of managing this is ongoing. So we never stop the community engagement piece. The community …
Minister.
Hon. Wayne Caines: I would respectfully disagree, and let me tell you why, MP Smith. We make decisions based on intelligence. We have an individual who is going . . . and the work of managing this is ongoing. So we never stop the community engagement piece. The community engag ement piece remained a priority. W hat I am simply sa ying now is that we actually need more support there. And so we never . . . we never stopped the community engagement piece. That was always an aggressive part. We are simply saying now we want to put more resources there. If you looked at how we set up what the phases are in the programme, we have always had specific things that we are doing with training and community involvement. And so there has always been community engagement, adult outreach and intervention, right? And so our preve ntion programmes. And so when you look at what we have been doing, you have always had a formula. To your point, though, you have highlighted the position . . . Our response has always been fluid. And now that we see it is an opportunity for us to morph again, we believe that we will morph more.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerSecond question. Go ahead. QUESTION 2: GANG VIOLENCE REDUCTION TEAM RESPONSE TO HEROES WEEKEND INCIDENTS
Mr. Ben SmithSo, number three in that same portion on page 10. There is discussion of jobs and men-toring programmes. Can the Minister give us some Bermuda House of Assembly details on who he will be looking for to provide those jobs and mentor programmes? Is this something that they will be …
So, number three in that same portion on page 10. There is discussion of jobs and men-toring programmes. Can the Minister give us some
Bermuda House of Assembly details on who he will be looking for to provide those jobs and mentor programmes? Is this something that they will be discuss ing with the private sector? Where are these jobs and mentor programmes going to come from?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMinister. Hon. Wayne Caines: So, last summer we had a number of our young people who were working, for instance, at Southampton Princess. And they were working at different community places. They were working at The Reefs. They were working at a number of other hotels. We visited them. And …
Minister. Hon. Wayne Caines: So, last summer we had a number of our young people who were working, for instance, at Southampton Princess. And they were working at different community places. They were working at The Reefs. They were working at a number of other hotels. We visited them. And they, a number of them . . . and from summer programmes on to full - time employment. As we now know, as a result of the pandemic a lot of the opportunity just simply [due] to economic forces, the hotels closing, the businesses struggling, have not been able to get the community placements. We believe that we have to use our Minister Zane De Silva’s company. They were in line to hire some people. And I am sure that he will continue to do so. And so what we have seen is our staff are going back out there, and it is going to be a slog this year because it is difficult. But we are committed to making sure that our young people get placements. If you look at Redemption Farm, Mr. Speaker, Redemption Farm was at the place where we had a 28-week programme where young men got the mental health treatment. They got the social support. And by the end of it, they were transitioning into employment with employers. And without warning, the pandemic came. And so as they were due to start making the connections with the employers, the employers have reached out back and said, I wanted to take Wayne on, but I am not able to do so right now. Let me catch my feet, and then we will re- org with you and we will see if we can take him. And like many organisations, like many bus inesses, we have had to test and adjust our position based on what the circumstances [are] that business is now fac ing.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYes, do your supplementary. SUPPLEMENTARY
Mr. Ben SmithSo following on from what the Mini ster just said in that answer regarding the Redemption Farm, Honourable Minister, are you able to tell us whether some of the people from the Redemption Farm who have gone through the 28- week pr ogramme . . . now that maybe some …
So following on from what the Mini ster just said in that answer regarding the Redemption Farm, Honourable Minister, are you able to tell us whether some of the people from the Redemption Farm who have gone through the 28- week pr ogramme . . . now that maybe some of those connections are not happening will they be doing a further part within the Redemption Farm? Or when you bring it back will that be a new group of people?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMinister. Hon. Wayne Caines: We are committed . . . First of all, we realise, at least, Mr. Speaker, that these are long-term engagements. I myself, along with Pastor Bean, as [well] as our programme manager, Mr. Woods, interact with the young men on a regular basis. Last Tuesday I …
Minister.
Hon. Wayne Caines: We are committed . . . First of all, we realise, at least, Mr. Speaker, that these are long-term engagements. I myself, along with Pastor Bean, as [well] as our programme manager, Mr. Woods, interact with the young men on a regular basis. Last Tuesday I went directly myself into the one-way detail area and saw the guys in Redemption Farm [and] reiterated our commitment to them as a Government. We reiterated our commitment to them as a countr y and said to them, Listen. We are going to, as soon as it is safe—obviously we had a pandemic. Everyone had to be off the streets, including the farm. Now that we can start to go back to our gardening, we are going to pick back up. Mr. Speaker, the progr amme is not just for farming. We want to reconnect them with social services. We want to reconnect them with their mental health teams. And so this is a continuum of care, and we have to focus on that now, taking on board the limitations with the COVID -19 and what we have. If the programme opens back up, and the mental health advice and the case management advice is that they should continue in the Redemption Farm, of course we would do that. If the case manager said, Wayne has enough training where he can make it on his own and he needs a job or he needs to use his tools, then we will do so. But remember, every case plan for the 10 people in Redemption Farm is different from the ot hers.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Minister. Any further supplementary?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerGo ahead and ask your question. QUESTION 3: GANG VIOLENCE REDUCTION TEAM RESPONSE TO HEROES WEEKEND INCIDENTS
Mr. Ben SmithSo, Minister, within the Statement you referred to, there are some young people who were part of a programme in primary schools. With public schools not being able to come back until September, will there be some connections with summer camps so that these same people can get som e …
So, Minister, within the Statement you referred to, there are some young people who were part of a programme in primary schools. With public schools not being able to come back until September, will there be some connections with summer camps so that these same people can get som e of that atte n4216 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly tion within maybe some of the programmes they have been doing during the day?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMinister. Hon. Wayne Caines: We have two programmes, and the Hype Kings programme that is at the Victor Scott School, our programme manager, Mr. Dar ren Woods, has stayed engaged throughout the entire process. Remember, this is not something that is being done willy-nilly. There are case management plans done …
Minister. Hon. Wayne Caines: We have two programmes, and the Hype Kings programme that is at the Victor Scott School, our programme manager, Mr. Dar ren Woods, has stayed engaged throughout the entire process. Remember, this is not something that is being done willy-nilly. There are case management plans done for the young men within the programme. And so when we are able to reach out with them, whether it is by Facetime or Zoom, we under-stand this particular person’s set of circumstances. And the case plan is for making a touchpoint, speaking with them, understanding what is happening in their home, what is happening in the community around them. And we are able to give them advice and mentor them through a non- traditional means nonetheless, through the online portal. But we are making sure that we continue with them throughout the summer. So we have never lost touch with our young people, especially i n our primary and middle schools. We continue to work with them on an ongoing basis.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerSupplementary. Yes. SUPPLEMENTARY
Mr. Ben SmithSo, I guess my question on from there would be, Should summer camp directors be reaching out to somebody specifically to see if they can engage with some of these children who need a structured activity during this period? And to get i nformation from the programme on how they …
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMinister. Hon. Wayne Caines: We will continue to do this on a case -by-case basis. Some of the young men have specific needs, and that is why I keep going back to the position around case management. Summer day camp programmes oftentimes are not best equipped to deal with kids …
Minister.
Hon. Wayne Caines: We will continue to do this on a case -by-case basis. Some of the young men have specific needs, and that is why I keep going back to the position around case management. Summer day camp programmes oftentimes are not best equipped to deal with kids who have a special need. And so what we want to do is rely . . . I rely very heavily on our team, the programme lead for education, Mr. Dar-ren Woods. Mr. Woods has a formula for the summer, how he will dea l with the kids. And it is best that he sets up a programme. And he will reach out to the people in our community that best suits each person’s need on a child- by-child basis.
Mr. Ben SmithThank you, Mr. Speaker. The Speaker: Thank you.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerSupplementary? Mr. Simons, yes. Put your supplementary. SUPPLEMENTARY
Mr. N. H. Cole SimonsThe Minister spoke about a continuum of services. And my question to him is this: What s upport services do we have available for parents of these young people, meaning young adults? Because some of our parents are in denial. Some of them are at their wits’ end. And some …
The Minister spoke about a continuum of services. And my question to him is this: What s upport services do we have available for parents of these young people, meaning young adults? Because some of our parents are in denial. Some of them are at their wits’ end. And some of them need support in helping their wayward family members. So what res ources do we have to help those parents? Because at the end of the day, as you said publicly, it all begins at home and within the community. And the parents will have influence over these young people. So how can we help them?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMinister. Hon. Wayne Caines: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker —
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMinister, we have got 50 seconds left on our time. Hon. Wayne Caines: Mr. Speaker, our team connects our young people with key partners in the community. Young men in our education programme in the schools . . . we direct the needs with the parents. If there are people …
Minister, we have got 50 seconds left on our time. Hon. Wayne Caines: Mr. Speaker, our team connects our young people with key partners in the community. Young men in our education programme in the schools . . . we direct the needs with the parents. If there are people who are suffering from violence, we have our group called MOM Bermuda. We also as a community need to connect with organisations that exist all around our community for people to help fam ilies that need support for their young people.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. And, Members, we had started Question Per iod at 10:36. It is now 11:36, which brings us to the close of the Question Period. We will now move on. Hon. L. Craig Cannoni er: Mr. Speaker, Mr. Speaker. Just a point of clarification.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerHello? Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: I need clarification.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerGo ahead. Yes. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: You know, I am trying to understand, why are we not doing Premier’s Question Period at this time? Bermuda House of Assembly The Speaker: Premier’s Questions. If you read the Standing Orders, Premier’s Questions are held on the second calendar Friday that the …
Go ahead. Yes.
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: You know, I am trying to understand, why are we not doing Premier’s Question Period at this time?
Bermuda House of Assembly The Speaker: Premier’s Questions. If you read the Standing Orders, Premier’s Questions are held on the second calendar Friday that the House happens to be sitting. Today is not the second calendar Friday of the month. It is the second sitting of the month, but it is not the second calendar Friday.
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Yes. Yes. I hear what you are saying, Mr. Speaker. But since we have gone through to this new format of sitting every other week, that basically means that Question Period for the Premier becomes almost null and void. Because very rarely are we having a Friday that represents that. And I thought that as we were going into this new format of meeting, that the second sitting of the calendar month [would be] for these questions. Otherwise, there is no questioning! In 12 months, you are going to get, what? Three opportunities? That makes no sense. And it goes against the vein of what we attempted to do—
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMr. Opposition Leader. Mr. Opposition Leader. We are not going to debate this here in this forum. We will not be debating this. We know what the Standing Order says. I appreciate what your comment is. This is not the place for debating this, and I will not entertain that. …
Mr. Opposition Leader. Mr. Opposition Leader. We are not going to debate this here in this forum. We will not be debating this. We know what the Standing Order says. I appreciate what your comment is. This is not the place for debating this, and I will not entertain that. The Standing Orders are clear on what it is, and we will have to look at that when we agree on a scheduled sitting to make sure that we have a second Friday of a calendar month included when we look at a schedule. It was overlooked this time. But it is not going to be debated in this forum on this floor. We can address it when we all agree in future to sittings, to make sure we have sufficient second calendar Fridays in those schedules. Okay?
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: As I stated, I was looking for clarification, and that is what I am doing.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. We will now move on. CONGRATULATORY AND/OR OBITUARY SPEECHES
The SpeakerThe SpeakerWould any Member wish to speak to that?
Mr. Michael A. WeeksMr. Speaker, I would like to send congratulations to Mrs. April Augustus. She has been the former Director up at the Eliza DoLittle Soc iety feeding programme and has been doing that for quite some time. And she and her team —I must d eclare my interest. I am a …
Mr. Speaker, I would like to send congratulations to Mrs. April Augustus. She has been the former Director up at the Eliza DoLittle Soc iety feeding programme and has been doing that for quite some time. And she and her team —I must d eclare my interest. I am a part of that team as a volu nteer. And she has been leading that team, Mr. Speaker, for the last year or so in feeding our community in need. And especially for those since the COVID -19, the need has increased. And she has done i t without hesitation or looking for thanks. The reason I am looking to thank her is that she is now finishing up there. And she is becoming the Executive Director at Westmeath. So on behalf of myself and the other members up at Eliza DoLittle, I would lik e to wish her well. Also, Mr. Speaker, before I finish I would like to congratulate the P6 class at Harrington Sound Pr imary, who had their graduation yesterday. It was a fine affair, Mr. Speaker. And while I am congratulating them, I might as well take t he opportunity to congrat ulate all of those P6 students throughout the Island, and middle and high school students, who have done well in spite of COVID -19 and are enjoying their graduation. I wish them well going forward. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The Spe aker: Thank you, MP Weeks. Does any other Member wish to speak? Any other Member? Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberI will defer to MP Dunkley.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerOkay. MP Dunkley. Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, once again good morning. I would like to extend condolences from this Honourable House to a former Member and his family on the passing of Mrs. Ada Louise Foggo, wh o passed away last week. As you …
Okay. MP Dunkley.
Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, once again good morning. I would like to extend condolences from this Honourable House to a former Member and his family on the passing of Mrs. Ada Louise Foggo, wh o passed away last week. As you are aware, Mr. Speaker, Ms. Foggo was the mother of our former Member, and Senator as well, Kenneth Bascome, JP MP, and also his extended family. I know, like all sons do and certainly daughters do, we love our mothers. But Kenny certainly had a close affinity for his mother. And she was the centre of his world. So on behalf of 4218 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly my family, I would like to send condolences to Kenny and his brothers and sisters on the passing of a wonderful lady. May she rest in peace. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Does any other Member wish to speak?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThe Honourable Member from [consti tuency] 28. Honourable Member Lister, you have the floor.
Mr. Dennis Lister IIIGood m orning, Mr. Speaker. Good morning, all. I would just like to send out congratulations, this past week, to Mr. Tariq Simons and Ms. Kirsten Saltus, who in the run of our first return of sports won the MTM Covid Championships at Fairmount Sout hampton. So I would like …
Good m orning, Mr. Speaker. Good morning, all. I would just like to send out congratulations, this past week, to Mr. Tariq Simons and Ms. Kirsten Saltus, who in the run of our first return of sports won the MTM Covid Championships at Fairmount Sout hampton. So I would like to send congratulations out to them. Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Mr. Speaker, I would like to be associated with those congratulations.
Mr. Dennis Lister IIIMr. Speaker, I would also like to send out congratulations to Ms. Tina Nash, who since our last sitting was selected as the Executive Director of WindReach, which is in my constituency. So I would like to just send congratulations to Ms. Nash.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberMr. Speaker, I would like to be associated.
Mr. Dennis Lister IIIAnd then, Mr. Speaker, as this week, Sunday is Father’s Day, I would like to send out congratulations to all of the fathers out there. And I must be remiss, Mr . Speaker, as since the last sitting of this House, I did overlook your birthday, Mr. Speaker.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberThat is unacceptable, Mr. Speaker! That is unacceptable! [Laughter]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYour colleague has spoken. Do you hear that?
Mr. Dennis Lis ter IIIYes. Saturday after our last si tting. So I have missed it. So I would just like to send some late congratulations to you, Mr. Speaker, on your birthday. I will not say the year. Congratulations, Mr. Speaker. And thank you, Mr. Speaker. [Laughter ]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. I think your colleagues are not going to . . . [Inaudible interjections and laughter ]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerDoes any other Member wish to speak? Hon. Diallo V. S. Rabain: Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMinister of Education. Yes. Hon. D iallo V. S. Rabain: Yes, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to overall be assoc iated with the comments on the condolences for Ms. Foggo in St. George’s. [Inaudible interjections]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerSomebody’s microphone is on. [Inaudible interjections]
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberMinister Caines.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerOkay. Go ahead, Minister of Education. Hon. Diallo V. S. Rabain: Thank you. I did speak with our Ms. Candy -Lee Foggo, who is her daughter, last night to convey my condolences. So I just want to join the Mem bers in wishing condolences to the family. I also wish …
Okay. Go ahead, Minister of Education.
Hon. Diallo V. S. Rabain: Thank you. I did speak with our Ms. Candy -Lee Foggo, who is her daughter, last night to convey my condolences. So I just want to join the Mem bers in wishing condolences to the family. I also wish to be associated with the congrat ulations for Ms. Tina Nash. I also send a happy birthday to Dr. Bert McPhee, who turns 94 today. Many of us know Dr. McPhee in the House. And quite obviously you woul d know him as well.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberI would like to be associated with that, Mr. Speaker. [Inaudible interjections]
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberI would like to be associated with Bert McPhee and . . . Thank you. Another Hon. Member: I would like to be associated , Mr. Speaker, with that one. Bermuda House of Assembly The Speaker: I suggest you associate the entire House. Hon. Diallo V. S. Rabain: Mr. Speaker, …
I would like to be associated with Bert McPhee and . . . Thank you. Another Hon. Member: I would like to be associated , Mr. Speaker, with that one.
Bermuda House of Assembly The Speaker: I suggest you associate the entire House.
Hon. Diallo V. S. Rabain: Mr. Speaker, and I will associate the entire House in wishing Dr. Bert McPhee a very happy birthday. If you do know Dr. McPhee, you know he is still walking strong. He recently got married about a year and a bit [ago]. And so he is doing very strong. Mr. Speaker, I also would like to send congratulations to all of our E6 middle school and senior school graduates. Although the COVID -19 has not allowed them to have their leaving ceremonies as what I say would say normally have them, I do want to make sure that they all know that we— associating everyone in this House— want to wish them congrat ulations in moving on to the next stages of their ac ademic careers. Mr. Speaker, speaking of Father’s Day, I want to thank all of the P6 and P5 students who participat-ed in the Ministry of Education Third Annual Father’s Day Competition. The winners will be announced very shortly. We do now have them. And this y ear we have done something a little different. And I want to also thank the partnership of the Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity, Incorporated, who did donate and help us get pri zes for eight students. Eight students will be receiving laptops, as they have put in their essays. And we have selected the eight winners. So there will be an announcement on who those winners are in tomorrow’s newspaper. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Minister. Does any other Member wish to speak under condolences and congratulations?
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberMr. Speaker. Another Hon. Member: Mr. Speaker, I would like to be associated with the condolences for Kenny Bas-come’s mother. I did not know his mother, but I know how much Kenny loved his mother. So I would like to be associated with those condolences. And I would also like …
Mr. Speaker. Another Hon. Member: Mr. Speaker, I would like to be associated with the condolences for Kenny Bas-come’s mother. I did not know his mother, but I know how much Kenny loved his mother. So I would like to be associated with those condolences. And I would also like to be associated with the congratulations for the third anniversary of your 20 th birthday.
[Laughter]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member. All right. Any other Member?
Mr. Rolfe CommissiongThank you, Mr. Speaker. Good morning. Mr. Speaker, firstly, I would need to associate, of course, with the comments, the kind comments of condolences expressed on the passi ng of former MP Kenny Bascome’s mother. I did not know her. My in-laws are related to her through the Foggo line. …
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Good morning. Mr. Speaker, firstly, I would need to associate, of course, with the comments, the kind comments of condolences expressed on the passi ng of former MP Kenny Bascome’s mother. I did not know her. My in-laws are related to her through the Foggo line. And I just really feel for our former Member because, as the previous speaker said, he was very, very close to his mother. And I hope he is doing well. I am going to try to reach out to him later. And to him, Candy, all of the members of the extended family, my heartfelt condolences go out to them. Finally, Mr. Speaker, this is going to maybe sound a little innovative, but I am not going to bel abour it. I just want to congratulate the Bermudian pe ople and the job they have done in combatting thus far the virus called COVID -19. You know, we had a little false start a bit in the first few weeks. But we caught up. And the best of them really came t o the fore. And so, hats off to the Bermudian people! They have been patting the Government on the back. And many of us are Members. But without them, we could not have achieved the success we have had so far. There have been justified reasons why we need not become co mplacent, and I hope everybody is taking that to heart because the battle, as the Premier has stated in so many other words, is not over. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member. Does any other Honourable Member wi sh to speak?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYes, it sounds like the Government Whip, Honourable Member.
Mr. W. Lawrence ScottYes. The MP Christopher Famous has been trying to get your attention by rai sing his hand in the camera. I just do not know if you are able to see it. So I just wanted to bring that to your attention.
Mr. Christopher FamousCan you see me clearly now? 4220 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly The Speaker: Mr. Famous, you can continue speaking. How is that?
Mr. Christopher FamousI am speaking from the west side of my house in East Devonshire. An H on. Member: Looking good, Famous!
Mr. Christopher FamousThe graduating class of 2020 for Elliott Primary School, my alma mater. They had a graduation ceremony today. Also I want to give condolences to the Douglas/Boyles/Augustus clan on the passing of their matriarch, Ms. Dorothy Douglas.
Mr. Christopher FamousMs. Douglas was not just . . . she was born and bred in Devonshire. And every year, every day, almost every day, she would walk from Devon Springs down to Elliott School to make sure the children behaved themselves in the yard. She was mother of (I want to …
Ms. Douglas was not just . . . she was born and bred in Devonshire. And every year, every day, almost every day, she would walk from Devon Springs down to Elliott School to make sure the children behaved themselves in the yard. She was mother of (I want to say) seven or eight chi ldren, countless grandchildren, great -grandchildren. Everybody basically in Hermitage Road, Devon Springs, Green Acres were all related. So it is a tough passing. But I spoke to her son today, and [he] sai d she went out the way she wanted. And he just wanted to thank the community for their support. Thank you,
Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member. Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak?
Mr. Neville S. TyrrellGood morning, Mr. Speaker, colleagues and the Bermuda public. Mr. Speaker, as a parent it saddens me this morning to have to ask for condolences to be sent out to the family of a young man who was actually named in Minister Caines’ Ministerial Statement this morning. They are Tina …
Good morning, Mr. Speaker, colleagues and the Bermuda public. Mr. Speaker, as a parent it saddens me this morning to have to ask for condolences to be sent out to the family of a young man who was actually named in Minister Caines’ Ministerial Statement this morning. They are Tina and William Rowse. And together with their older son, Jordan, who as I said is the family of Joshua Rowse, who tragically and senselessly lost his life this pa st weekend. [INAUDIBLE] as the Rowses are constituents of mine—
Mr. Neville S. TyrrellAs the Rowses are constit uents of mine, Mr. Speaker, I took the opportunity to visit them this week. And as I said, as a parent it was really hard for me to take the look on their faces which told me that young Josh would be missed by them. …
As the Rowses are constit uents of mine, Mr. Speaker, I took the opportunity to visit them this week. And as I said, as a parent it was really hard for me to take the look on their faces which told me that young Josh would be missed by them. So I am hoping that he is resting in peace. And I personally wish the family well during and after their mour ning p eriod. And I hope that things do get better for them. Okay. Thank you. Let me also associate myself, I know it has already been said for the whole House, congratul ations to Tina Nash on her recent appointment. Tina and I do a lot together, and I wish her well. Thank you,
Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThank you, MP Tyrrell. Would any other Member wish to speak?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYes, go right ahead. Is that MP Swan?
Mr. Hubert (Kim) E. SwanYes. Good morning. Let me just adjust this St. George’s mask, Mr. Speaker. I would like to be associated with the condolences being sent to the family of Ada Louise Foggo. I would like to associate MP Renee Ming with that. Ms. Foggo I knew personally, and she was a …
Yes. Good morning. Let me just adjust this St. George’s mask, Mr. Speaker. I would like to be associated with the condolences being sent to the family of Ada Louise Foggo. I would like to associate MP Renee Ming with that. Ms. Foggo I knew personally, and she was a delightful lady. And she and her sister, Ms. Viola Fubler, into their advanced years still entertaining our seniors up until COVID -19 and they were unable to go into the rest home. And she recently took sick and that cerBermuda House of Assembly tainly had an impact on her because as a lady she was active 20 years her junior and very much looked it. And condolences to her entire family. One of my school ball colleagues, Denis D avis, has passed away, and I have learned of it. And I would like condolences to be sent to his family. He was a very t alented footballer when we grew up.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberI would like to be associated.
Mr. Hubert (Kim) E. SwanAnd we played together at Warwick Second. MP Ming and I would like, along with the Mi nister who singled out East End Primary School Class of 2020 . . . Those 13 students led by Principal Julie Foggo, who has moved on as of this week now, and looking …
And we played together at Warwick Second. MP Ming and I would like, along with the Mi nister who singled out East End Primary School Class of 2020 . . . Those 13 students led by Principal Julie Foggo, who has moved on as of this week now, and looking forward to going on to bigger and better things in the world and to the great educational institution that East End Primary School is. We celebrate the families who in a very non- traditional way made the most of being able to have the closing- out ceremony, Mr. Speaker, in the park, car park, and practicing s ocial distancing. And also being there in cars with the family. But it was very, very much a celebratory event, because in typical fashion as we would have been celebrating the Cup coming to St. George’s with car toots and stuff, as the children walked forward, they were tooted like the sixes that we would have been hitting.
[Inaudible interjections]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerWe have to have a dream Mr. Swan.
Mr. Hubert (Kim) E. SwanMr. Speaker, next week I will bring formal condolences to the passing of my good friend, Mr. Egbert Brown, who joined us on Sports Zone radio on Magic 102.7. Special condolences t o go out to his good friend, Mark “Burger” Jennings and Mr. Brangman, Dr. Brangman from St. George’s …
Mr. Speaker, next week I will bring formal condolences to the passing of my good friend, Mr. Egbert Brown, who joined us on Sports Zone radio on Magic 102.7. Special condolences t o go out to his good friend, Mark “Burger” Jennings and Mr. Brangman, Dr. Brangman from St. George’s and the Inter -Island Communications family of which he was a part. And he is survived by his chi ldren, my good friends, Charlie and Randy, and his other ch ildren. And also he was the brother of the former Member of this House, Dr. Pauulu Kamar akafego (Roosevelt Brown) and others.
Mrs. Renee MingMr. Speaker, it sounded like I heard some agitation in your voice at the previous speaker. So I thought I would reinforce and make sure that I got my comments in today as well.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberAmen!
The SpeakerThe SpeakerI notice you are being colourful today. But there is bl ue in there, thank goodness. [Laughter]
Mrs. Renee MingI would like to be associated with the comments for Ada Foggo. I knew Ms. Foggo through my Richard Allen family when she was at church. And she was definitely quite the character. And I am sure she will be missed around St. George’s on the whole. I did have …
I would like to be associated with the comments for Ada Foggo. I knew Ms. Foggo through my Richard Allen family when she was at church. And she was definitely quite the character. And I am sure she will be missed around St. George’s on the whole. I did have an opportunity to speak to Mr. Bascome, and I pray we will keep him and his family in [our] prayers. I would also like to be associated with the comments for Tina Nash. Tina is a fellow [INA UDIBLE] amazing lady, and I just know that she will do well in whatever it is that she does. Mr. Speaker, we are at the time of the year that we celebrate graduations. And that is such a milestone and people and our kids and adults moving on to the next chapt er. And so I congratulate all the graduates. But in particular I am going to point out East End Primary School, who as my colleague spoke about, had a drive- through graduation ceremony. And it was well organised, and it was a really good cel ebration of the P6 class. I would also like to congratulate the graduates at West End Primary because this year I happened to partner with West End, and I have been to several of the school functions.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThat is [ INAUDIBLE ] your family come out to the West E nd, eh?
Mrs. Renee MingMr. Speaker. [Laughter] 4222 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly Mrs. Renee Ming: And I just want to make sure that I congratulate their students on their milestone as well. And although they have not had their graduation yet, that would be St. George’s Preparatory Sc …
Mr. Speaker. [Laughter]
4222 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly Mrs. Renee Ming: And I just want to make sure that I congratulate their students on their milestone as well. And although they have not had their graduation yet, that would be St. George’s Preparatory Sc hool, St. George’s Prep. I will congratulate their students because their graduation is on Monday. And we wish the students all the best. Mr. Speaker, my last congratulations will be to the young ladies who actually organised the Black Lives Matter March a few weeks ago. And I am sure that all of us have had some thoughts, some feedback or maybe even participated. But I look at those two young people doing amazing things in the country, and especially because they are women I wanted to make sure that I ack nowledge them for what it is that—the movement that they are trying to do. And also to the Social Justice team, who organised a Black Lives Matter March as well, because, Mr. Speaker, this is very topical at this time. There are a lot of educating things and learning that we are doing. And I just want to make sure that in a way that they are in our thoughts and that, you know, we support these things that they do. So, Mr. Speaker, I will close my comments on that note. And it is unfortunate that [INAUDIB LE] today.
[Crosstalk; Feedback]
Mrs. Renee MingBut it is okay. I understand why you are in that predicament. But you got a reprieve for one year, so you should be happy, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, MP Ming. I now recognise the Deputy Premi er. Deputy Premier, you have the floor. Hon. Walter H. Roban: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to be associated with some of the remarks already given particularly for Ms. Tina Nash, who is one of the local champions …
Thank you, MP Ming. I now recognise the Deputy Premi er. Deputy Premier, you have the floor. Hon. Walter H. Roban: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to be associated with some of the remarks already given particularly for Ms. Tina Nash, who is one of the local champions in the third sector with her work with Raleigh International in the past, and with our young people. And we were all sort of given the pleasure of watching her travels around the world with our young people in Raleigh when she was there. And certainly [she] is committed to the third sector and its work. And happy to see that she has found a home at WindReach, which is obviously a wonderful charity for Bermuda. I would also like to be associated, of course, with the birthday message to Dr. Bert McPhee on his 94 th birthday. It is probably in his DNA, but whatever elixir he has been drinking, I want that so I can be just like him at some point in my life. Maybe somebody knows what the formula is, but please share it be-cause he is an amazing man, obviously a physician of renown. He specialis es in elderly medicine, but also I know many people who will attest to the fact that he delivered them [when they were born]. And they see him today, and they are amazed by how youthful he is and how strong he is. The last one I would like to give is a congrat ulatory remark to Ms. (just a minute, Mr. Speaker), one of my constituents who actually went 100 last, on the 6 th of June. And her name is Eva Emily Albert a Outerbridge, of North Cliff Lane in the Village. She went 100 on the 6th of June. And she is a n amazing lady. Her family is a pillar of the community of North Village and have been there for generations. And I am just happy to have had the opportunity to represent her and know her. She is a fantastic lady, and she comes from a fantastic family. So I just want to ensure that we recognise her for her centenary year. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Deputy Premier. I would now like to recognise MP Furbert. Ms. Tinee Furbert, MP.
Mrs. Tinee FurbertYes. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just w anting to give congratulations to . . . Again, MP Renee Ming must have been reading my thoughts. But also wanting to be associated with the organisers of the Black Lives Matter March, which was on June 7 th, had over 7,000 people; …
Yes. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just w anting to give congratulations to . . . Again, MP Renee Ming must have been reading my thoughts. But also wanting to be associated with the organisers of the Black Lives Matter March, which was on June 7 th, had over 7,000 people; and June 13th had approxim ately 1,000 people. And just all the pe ople who took the liberty that day, for whatever reason, they wanted to participate in this Black Lives Matter March, just saying, congratulating everyone for coming out for such a great purpose and such a great cause. And we are looking forward to developments that could arise out of our participating in a march such as the Black Lives Matter movement. Also, I do not have any schools particularly in my constituency. But I do have students who live in my constituency who attend Francis Patton, Clearw ater Middle School, St. David’s Primary. So I just wanting to say a special congratulation to all of the grad uates who will be moving on to new schools or different places, and just wanting to give my sincerest congratulations and wishing them all the best. I am sure MP Wayne Furbert and Deputy Speaker Burgess, as well as Minister Lovitta Foggo, will want to be associated with that. And just a special shout -out to all the graduates, whatever level, maybe preschool, primary school, middle school, high school, college— wanting to congratulate them all. And also want to be associated with the congratulations for Ms. Tina Nash as being the person who is now in lead position at WindReach. Wi ndReach is a facility that does give special services to our special needs community and even our seniors. And whoever wants to attend WindReach, it is open to all. So I just wanted to give special congratulations to Tina as she moves, helps to move WindReach forward. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Bermuda House of Assembly The Speaker: Thank you, Honourable Member. Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak?
Mr. W. Lawrence ScottThank you. Being that MP Lister took my thunder by congratulating my branch member, Tina Nash, before I did, I figured I would let everybody else go first and then, being that I know her best and work closest with her, I would then give my congratulations to her. [Laughter]
Mr. W. Lawrence ScottShe has boundless energy, and she is the perfect person for that position. And I wholeheartedly support and also share the joy and excitement of her be ing put into that position. But I also want to be associated —as I said, I want to associate with the birthday greetings …
She has boundless energy, and she is the perfect person for that position. And I wholeheartedly support and also share the joy and excitement of her be ing put into that position. But I also want to be associated —as I said, I want to associate with the birthday greetings and co ngratulations to Dr. Bert McPhee, who was born on an ice-cold Tuesday in Ithaca, New York, as a man of Alpha. And I think that on e Member asked, What is the secret to looking so young? It is that Alphas do it better, longer and faster than anybody else. So I think that this is how he looks so young, by being a man of Alpha and being able to contribute back to the consti tuency —not just the constituency that he lives in, but also the country as a whole. The member Bert McPhee has also . . . Brother McPhee has also gone and done free medical work overseas, such as in South America and other jurisdictions like that. So his talents and his gifts, his time and his treasury have not just been spent here in Bermuda, but have gone worldwide. And we wish him all the best and many more to come. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member. Does any other Honour able Member wish to speak?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerHe was done last week while I was out—last sitting when I was in the Chair. And it was done while Deputy Speaker was in the Chair.
Mr. N. H. Cole SimonsOkay. Well, I associate m yself with those comments in regard to Kit Astwood. As you know, he was a real tourism ambassador. He was a Member of Parliament. And he bas ically supported the Bermuda Hotel Association and did a lot [ INAUD IBLE]. I would like to also …
Okay. Well, I associate m yself with those comments in regard to Kit Astwood. As you know, he was a real tourism ambassador. He was a Member of Parliament. And he bas ically supported the Bermuda Hotel Association and did a lot [ INAUD IBLE]. I would like to also send congratulatory r emarks to Erin Jones. She is one of the few students who actually have been accepted to attend Cambridge University. She is a youngster. She is a well - rounded individual. And, you know, we have a lot of smart, young, progressive well -rounded students in this country. And this just demonstrates again the calibre of education that we are providing in Bermuda. In addition, I would like to send congratulatory remarks to all of the graduates of our primary schools, our secondary schools, our middle schools and the college. You have worked very hard during such strenuous circumstances, and you have met your objectives. You have fulfilled the requir ements of the curriculum. And I wish you all the best in your future endeavours from an academic point of view. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member.
Mr. N. H. Cole SimonsOh, I would like to associate myself with the comme nts with Ms. Foggo. I knew the lady well. And my condolences to the family. She was a living spark , and she was a lady as always, and a lways pleasant and open to a conversation. So, condo-lences to …
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member. Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak? Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Yes, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYes. Opposition Leader. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Yes. Thank you very much.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYou have the floor. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Thank you. I would like to echo sentiments that are being sent out to the passing of Ms. Foggo from the East End here. That would be, of course, as we have already heard, [the mother of] the former Honourable Member Kenneth …
You have the floor. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Thank you. I would like to echo sentiments that are being sent out to the passing of Ms. Foggo from the East End here. That would be, of course, as we have already heard, [the mother of] the former Honourable Member Kenneth Bascome, who was a part of this Parliamentary group. And just to say that we recog-nise how very, very, very close the family was. Especially myself, from being over at St. David’s, I know 4224 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly that Kenneth and the family, they would come over there on many, many occasions. So we just want to echo the sentiments of all of the good work that she put in producing a young man like Kenneth Bascome and also Candy Foggo, two wonderful people. And our condolences certainly go out to them. I would also like to echo congrats to the teachers, knowing that today is the last day of school, for their efforts in keeping our kids educated remotely. I know this was not an easy task. And talking to many, many parents, knowing that it was difficult for them, I knew that also it was a bit of a challenge for our teachers having to adjust to a new format. So, outside of the congrats going to the students, I want to also thank the teachers for the work that they put in. It is not over. They have obviously got to get prepared for a new session. But [thanks] for the fine works that they have done. And finally, on a lighter note, I have never done this before, but I would like to congratulate two of my grandkids, Marcus Spencer, who has gone 10, and Mai-Lee Darrell, who goes 6. Happy birthday to them! Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThere you go! Thank you, Honourable Member. Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak? Any other Member? No other Member. We will move on. MATTERS OF PRIVILEGE
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThere are none. PERSONAL EXPLANATIONS
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThere are none. NOTICE OF MOTIONS FOR THE ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE ON MATTERS OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThere are none. INTRODUCTION OF BILLS GOVERNMENT BILLS
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThere are three to be introduced this morning. And again I want to jus t indicate that the O rder Paper has two [Bills], but there is a third one from the new Minister Hayward. And as the Statement has been updated, so was the Bill this morning. So I …
There are three to be introduced this morning. And again I want to jus t indicate that the O rder Paper has two [Bills], but there is a third one from the new Minister Hayward. And as the Statement has been updated, so was the Bill this morning. So I would just ask your indulgence that this gets introduced now at this time, to o. Would the Minister of Finance like to introduce his two Bills at this point?
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Yes, Mr. Speaker, if it pleases you.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerGo right ahead. FIRST READING COMPANIES (RATIFICATION OF DEFERRED RETURNS, FEES AND TAXES) AMEN DMENT ACT 2020 Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker, I am intr oducing the following Bill for its first reading so that it may be placed on the Order Paper for the next day of meeting: …
Go right ahead.
FIRST READING
COMPANIES (RATIFICATION OF DEFERRED RETURNS, FEES AND TAXES) AMEN DMENT ACT 2020 Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker, I am intr oducing the following Bill for its first reading so that it may be placed on the Order Paper for the next day of meeting: Companies (Ratification of Deferred Returns, Fees and Taxes) Amendment Act 2020.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYes. FIRST READING PUBLIC TREASURY (ADMINISTRATION AND PAYMENTS) AMENDMENT ACT 2020 Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker, I am intr oducing the following Bill for its first reading so that it may be placed on the Order Paper for the next day of meeting: Public Treasury (Administration and Pa yments) …
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Minister. Minister of Labour. FIRST READING EMPLOYMENT AMENDMENT ACT 2020 Hon. Jason Hayward: Mr. Speaker, I am introducing the following Bill for its first reading so that it may be placed on the Order Paper for the next day of meeting: the Employment Amendment Act 2020. Thank you.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Members, the three Government Bills have been introduc ed and tabled for the next sitting. OPPOSITION BILLS
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThere are no Opposition Bills. PRIVATE MEMBERS’ BILLS
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThere are no Private Members’ Bills. Bermuda House of Assembly NOTICES OF MOTION
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThere are no notices of motion. ORDERS OF THE DAY
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThat will now lead us to the Orders of the Day. And the first order today is the second rea ding of the Cost of Living Commission Amendment Act 2020, in the name of the Premier. Premier, would you like to start your matter? Hon. E. David Bu rt: Good …
That will now lead us to the Orders of the Day. And the first order today is the second rea ding of the Cost of Living Commission Amendment Act 2020, in the name of the Premier. Premier, would you like to start your matter?
Hon. E. David Bu rt: Good morning, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I move that the Bill entitled the Cost of Living Commission Amendment Act 2020 be now read a second time.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAre there any objections to that? No objections. Go on, Premier. BILL SECOND READING COST OF LIVING COMMISSION AMENDMENT ACT 2020 Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this Bill seeks to amend the Cost of Living Commission Act 1974 [the principal Act] to require …
Are there any objections to that? No objections. Go on, Premier.
BILL
SECOND READING
COST OF LIVING COMMISSION AMENDMENT ACT 2020
Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this Bill seeks to amend the Cost of Living Commission Act 1974 [the principal Act] to require business undertakings that sell essential commod ities to use electronic means to furnish the commission with information on the prices of essential commodities they sell, and to enable the commission to efficiently and accurately inform members of the public of current prices of essential commodities sold by the various business undertakings. Mr. Speaker, to better position the responsibi lity for those matters in the framework of Government, the Bill proposes to make the Minister responsible for Consumer Affairs responsible for the Cost of Living Commis sion. Presently, that responsibility rests with the Honourable Member, the Minister for Home A ffairs, the Deputy Premier. And this realignment aids the commission, as there are natural synergies in the work that it does and the Department of Consumer Affairs. Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to have this House take this Bill under consideration. Honourable Members will be painfully aware that the cost of living in Bermuda is ranked among the highest in the world. Decreasing the cost of living continues to be a major area of focus for the Government, and it was signalled as such in the 2018 Throne Speech, and it has formed key elements of our approach to the cost of health care, energy, cost of housing and the cost of food. Mr. Speaker, it is important to note that this Government has made some progress in dealing with the cost of living. Inflation in Bermuda has been the lowest ever in 40 years, meaning that prices are not increasing at a fast pace, which is good news for all. Additionally, we have seen a reductio n in the core rates for provision of electricity due to the firm stance taken by the Government when the utility was seeking a rate increase. Colleagues will recall the work started by the Minister of Health regarding a common insurance pool for all resid ents to reduce health insurance expenses. And as the attention that must be focused on the coronavirus recedes, I am certain the Minister will a dvance the goals of a fairer and more equitable system of health insurance that reduces costs to consumers. That much being said, Mr. Speaker, more work remains to be done in the area of hous-ing/mortgage costs and the cost of food. Mr. Speaker, Honourable Members will recall that in 2017, the Price Control Commission was r enamed the Cost of Living Commission. This was in keeping in line with the platform promise which read as follows, and I quote: “Grant additional powers to the existing Price Control Commission to examine ways to reduce the cost of living in Bermuda.” Mr. Speaker, at that time we gave teeth to t he commission by significantly increasing penalties for noncompliance. The fine for noncompliance was i ncreased by 900 per cent to $5,000, and a daily rate of $500 per day for continued noncompliance was added. The change in name reflected the mandate of t he committee, as they no longer had the responsibility for setting the prices of goods, but had powerful tools of inquiry that could be used to make recommendations to the Minister (then the Minister of Finance) for measures to reduce the cost of living. Much of the commission’s work under the leadership of Senator Anthony Richardson was f ocused on the vexatious issues of food prices. The current chairman of the commission is the Honourable Deputy Speaker of this Honourable House, and he will be able to speak to the current work of the commi ssion. Mr. Speaker, food prices in Bermuda have always been high. But there is also a great lack of consistency in prices not only between store chains, but also within store chains. In 2018, a suggestion was made by me mbers of the public and also referred by the work of the Cost of Living Commission that a way to assist in moderating price increases of food was to develop a tool that would help Bermuda res idents make informed buying decisions. Research was performed to develop a grocery price comparison tool which allows citizens to be eas ily informed, but also to compare the prices of grocer-ies. The aim is to provide citizens with a method of price comparison among the main grocery retailers on the Island. The initial focus for such a tool would be 4226 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly the 24 staple goods which were identified by the commission. Mr. Speaker, during the research phase the key concern emerged—how information might be translated from a grocery retailer’s database into an application, and how it could then be passed on to desired channels of communication, preferably in a basic technology application. The first step of provi ding such information was to access the grocer’s pri cing information. While separate memoranda of understanding were cons idered as a possible avenue, the path of looking to the Act was also reviewed to determine whether there was a requirement for retailers to provide pricing information on various goods to the commission. Upon review of the existing Act, it was found that there was a lack of clarity as to how the information may be provided under the existing sections 9 and 10, and how it may be used to benefit the public. It was therefore proposed to amend the Act to permit the chairman of the commission to require retailers to provide pricing information to the commission and to permit the Minister under the Act to issue regulations to prescribe the manner in which such information should be submitted. The Amendment to the Act will therefore facilitate the collection of pr icing information from retailers. Mr. Speaker, there are a few common questions that will be asked: 1. Why should a grocery store be compelled to share pricing information with the Government or the Cost of Living Commission? 2. How will stores transmit this information to the Government or the Cost of Living Commi ssion? 3. Who will pay for the work required to transmit this information electronically? and 4. How will consumers get this information? Mr. Speaker, regarding the first question, it is important to note t hat grocery prices are effectively public information, as anyone can go into a store and find the price of any goods. The challenge is, Mr. Speaker, that not everyone can go into every store every day and compare the prices. The requirements to submit this information go to the heart of the intent of this change of law. The information, once collated, will lead to price stability and price competition. Data that are collected can also be analysed to ensure that there is no collusion that may be taking place. Mr. Speaker, regarding the second question, How will the stores transfer this information to the Government? The three major grocery store chains in Bermuda use the same inventory management and pricing software. Given they all share the same sof tware s ystem, this makes the information transfer easy. The software in question has built -in application processing interfaces (or APIs) that will allow the sharing of only specific data that the Cost of Living Commission wishes to collect. Once this code is wri tten, it can be used at all three major groceries and can be set to transmit data at set intervals, which is env isioned to be daily. Mr. Speaker, regarding the third question, Who will pay for the work required to submit this i nformation electronically? I t is not envisioned that the software changes required will be in excess of $50,000. Mr. Speaker, it is the view of the Gover nment that this is a small price for the Government to pay to put a competitive check on the increase of food prices in Bermuda’s economy and to ensure that i nformation is made available to the public, as it is a one-time fee. Mr. Speaker, the final question is, How will consumers get this information? The initial view was to create a simple application, web- based or mobile, to allow residents to have easy access to view this information. However, Mr. Speaker, what is most i mportant is for the information to be collected and made accessible to the public. This means that the Gover nment could develop its own application which does not necessarily have to be a mobile app, but it can just be a website. Or it can make the data collected publicly accessible and let our IT students locally or overseas develop their own applications from the data. This, Mr. Speaker, is the concept of open data. And the ultimate goal would be that if those data are made accessible, it is conceivable that persons could build more useful applications than the Government is able to do. Mr. Speaker, as you may understand, to move this project from conception to t his stage has taken some time. An extensive consultation has occurred mostly led by the Department of I CT Policy and Inn ovation. They have researched, benchmarked and pr ovided recommendations including requirements document s for the data interface. Consult ation has taken place with the Attorney General’s Chambers, the chair of the commission, the Policy and Strategy Section, discussions with grocers, Department of Statistics and other Ministries and departments that deal with the pricing of goods and consum er value. I would also like to give a special thank -you to the former Cabinet Office intern, Mr. Khari Place, who did a substantial amount of work on this project. Mr. Speaker, as I commend this Bill to the House for consideration of Honourable Members, I am pleased that this will advance the cause of greater access to information for consumers, allowing them to make informed choices that enable the development of pricing comparison tools that will reduce some pressure on food price increases in Bermuda. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Mr. Premier. Does any other Member wish to speak at this time? Bermuda House of Assembly Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Yes. Thank you,
Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerHonourable Member Gordon- Pamplin, you have the floor. Nice to see you this morning. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, sir.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerGood. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you and good afternoon to everybody. I would just firstly like to thank the Premier for actually sharing his brief on this, even though it has just come through to me this morning. And I have had the opportunity to read through it …
Good.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you and good afternoon to everybody. I would just firstly like to thank the Premier for actually sharing his brief on this, even though it has just come through to me this morning. And I have had the opportunity to read through it in advance of this particular debate. So it is always important to understand the purpose behind these kinds of changes. And very clearly, we are look ing to try to ensure that people have access to information that can inform the decisions that they can make in order to be able to have the best decisions and the best expenditure of their budget, that they can know that by being able to compare effectively they have that ability. Mr. Speaker, it does not escape us as Me mbers—and I hope that I am still being heard because I my computer is spooling . . .
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYou are coming through loud and clear. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, sir. It does not escape us, certainly as Members of the Opposition, that we have had a relatively stable or low level of inflation— as the Premier indicated in his brief, the lowest in 40 years. …
You are coming through loud and clear.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, sir. It does not escape us, certainly as Members of the Opposition, that we have had a relatively stable or low level of inflation— as the Premier indicated in his brief, the lowest in 40 years. I think it is also i mportant to understand that sometimes even th e slightest uptick of a cost of a particular item, which may not necessarily impact the overall weighted average of the cost of inflation, that little uptick may be significant to a particular family. If they have a tendency or a necess ity to purchase cert ain items of the 24 that have been identified for inclusion, it just may cause a challenge to them when they look at their overall budget. It does not escape us, Mr. Speaker, that this situation is actually exacerbated because there has been a failure to grow the economy so that people do not have access to additional monies. And, you know, sometimes those price variances may not necessarily under normal circumstances be even a major consi deration. When you look at very limited money coming in and no sort of excess, no largess that might be cr eated, nothing that helps the economy . . . when this becomes mammoth and people are starting to look at not just their budget, but the cost of almost every item, and making the decision, Do I purchase this or do I not purchase it? The Premier mentioned in his remarks in r espect of electricity, and indicating that the Government had put a hold on the cost of the increase of electric i-ty. But it is important also to make sure that we do something about the significant s urcharge that appears on the electricity bill. Because the one thing that we do not have in this instance, Mr. Speaker, is the ability to make a different choice. I know some people have the opportunity to use solar panels, and ther efore ameliorate the inc rease in cost of their electricity. However, we do not have . . . you know, the average person may not necessarily have that ability to just go out and get solar panels to help to alleviate those a dditional charges. Grocery prices, Mr. Speaker, is an area that we all are required to participate in. Everybody has got to eat. Everybody has got to go to the grocery store. And I do know that in some instances there appear to be great disparities. And I think that the collection of the information, as the Premi er has indicated in this presentation, allows the information collection to create a certain stability in that pricing. And certainly the accessibility of the output of that collective information will give people the ability to make the determination as t o where they choose to go for certain particular items. But it is also important to mention, Mr. Speaker, that we have some, sort of, major grocers. But we do have some who , by virtue of scale, will be able to achieve the economies of scale whereby they m ay be able to offer products or items that are of necessity less than what one of their competitors might be able to offer. I think that from an economic perspective we recognise that changes to grocery prices sometimes can be frequent, and they can be fluid. So I think what is important is that we also have to weigh the input, the differential between whether one place has an item that is maybe 10 cents more than someplace else, and therefore that is the desired place to go and get it. We also have to cons ider what happens in terms of our time and the cost of actually acquiring those particular items that one might want to have. So, you know, we obviously support the idea. I do not believe that it is the question of having information that is of proprietar y interest being shared publicly because, as the Premier has indicated, this is information which can be obtained irrespective. You can go from one place to the other to the other [to get it]. But we also have to consider when we plan our day in terms of how we are going to go to the stores and what we are going to purchase, we will have access to those prices at the outset, but we also have to weigh, is it worth the differential . . . is the differential in price worth the time, effort, energy and aggravat ion that we may have to experience when we go from one place to the other to the other in order to save 10 cents? And I am not undermining that. I am not di scounting the savings by any means. Because I think to some people, saving that 10 cents is perhaps even worth the walk from point A to point B in order to be able to save, and it is worth queuing up a second time 4228 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly at the checkout counter and the like. But I believe that this is at least a start to giving people that ability to make those choices and to make those decisions b efore they leave home and as they are planning their day. So with those few comments, Mr. Speaker, and recognising the fluidity and frequency of changes in products, I think it is also very important that the information as we have i t is actually that there is an ability to update it, because we are not going to have that level of real time. You can sometimes go into a store and somehow there is a special on. And that special may just appear on a certain day. And, you know, it might be that you go to the store today and realise as you get there that there has been a special that has been offered today, and when I left home this morning there was a certain price that I knew to be, as part of the output that I was able to see and compare, but when I actually get to the store it may have been something entirely different. So I just wanted to make sure that we are showing our support for our public to make sure that they can have the ability to make the choices that best suit their budgets . But I also do not want to lose sight of the fact that in the absence of economic growth in our community, these situations have become ma mmoth to the average person. I also think, Mr. Speaker, that as we look at the cost of living there are some things that we have no control over in terms of we have to buy certain things. And there are things on which international costs create a problem for us. You know, especially during COVID -19, we had some pretty drastic changes when you went to the store. And one week you were paying three dollars for a dozen eggs. And then, you know, a week later, [due to] COVID -19, the price had escalated to something that seems to be prohib itive. And when one looked at it, one had the choice of saying, Will I buy more eggs or wi ll I not buy more eggs? So that becomes the choice. Do I need them or do I not need them? That becomes a choice. But there is also a necessity to understand that sometimes things are out of our control. And some of the prices that we are challenged with are not necessarily driven by what might be perceived to be the actions of our local retailers for groceries, but that some of those prices are driven by the costs that are generated at the supply stage, at the manufacturers’ stage. And that, especially when things are of limited supply, is a question of supply and demand on the economic scale. When you have that supply and demand, you can very easily have somebody effectively saying, We’re charging twice as much this week for beef because we had to throw aw ay some of our supplies because something happened and there was some health issue. Therefore, there is less supply , and, therefore, manufacturers will find themselves in a situation where they also want to cover their costs. From a Bermuda perspective, w e also have to understand that we effectively import everything. To the extent that we can grow things and we can help to ameliorate our challenges in terms of our costs, then that is good for us. But to the extent to which we have to rely on imports, and even though the Government has made certain dispensations in terms of the import duties that are charged on certain grocery items and certain items, that all inures positively. What is also important is that we have to pay for shipping. We have to pay for the fuel that comes into the costs. So it is not always when we see the increase in the price in an item on the shelf that it is as a result of grocers conducting some kind of indiscriminate act to the de triment of our population. So while we do have this ability, and I certai nly hope that people will utilise it to every extent poss ible, realising that in some circumstances, Mr. Speaker, we have people who actually rely on financial assistance in order to be able to get their groceries on a weekly basis. A nd as they do so, Mr. Speaker, they want to ensure that the money that is on that grocery cart can stretch for them to be able to purchase those things that they need to have in their grocery basket. Mr. Speaker, some of them may not have the technology. They may not be able to have the cell phone. They may not be able to have the computer access that gives them the possibility of their checking as some others might have. So we might see ourselves in a situation in which people who are already slightly dis advantaged by the fact that they do not have a sum of money to be able to ignore differentials in prices may also not have the ability to examine where they can get their best bargains on the items that they need in order to ensure that then they can make their money stretch. So there are a few practical applications that we can see with this. But certainly, this is the first start. I believe that there has been a lot of work that would have been involved, as the Premier indicated in his brief, that there was work that was involved in order to get us to where we are at the moment. And therefore, I believe that we can support this amendment as best we can, and certainly hope that we can continue not just by having these applications, but by ensuring that eng agement with the providers of service allows us to be sure that any increases that we have are just based on the procurement of those services and not necessarily on the fact that there may be some greed factor involved that is creating some of the dispari ties. So with those few comments, Mr. Speaker, I will permit others to engage. Thank you, sir.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member. I now recognise the Deputy Speaker. Deputy Speaker. Bermuda House of Assembly Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. S peaker, I am glad the Premier brought this Bill to Parliament, because it is one that I think we need. When this Cost …
Thank you, Honourable Member. I now recognise the Deputy Speaker. Deputy Speaker.
Bermuda House of Assembly Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. S peaker, I am glad the Premier brought this Bill to Parliament, because it is one that I think we need. When this Cost of Living Commission had been put in place, maybe about two years ago, my understanding of it was that we would take items, essential items, and try to control the prices. But after thinking about it, it probably is not the best way to go because, Mr. Speaker, when you have imports, food, coming into this country, and when you cannot control the freight costs, then you have got food where th e price of it really depends on if it is seasonal, supply and demand . . . it is not in [the] control of anyone in this country in the Government. We may be able to control what is produced here in our farming industry. But let me take a second and say th at farming is very important to the world. Yet here in Bermuda, we do not treat farming that way until we need food. And then we realise how important farming is. And I really would like for the Minister of Labour to consider farming to be an essential industry, because that is exactly what it is. We need food to survive. And I do not think farming . . . well, I know farming in Bermuda is not protected like we do [for some] essential industries like, for example, the hotel industry. We have essential servic es, but farming, like water, has to be, in my opinion, an essential industry, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I just want to be very brief on this here because I am honoured to have been cho-sen to be the chairman of this committee. And we will certainly need the cooperation and the willingness of the grocery shops, supermarkets in Bermuda, to help us to try to keep the prices, particularly for the staple items, as low as they [can be]. And some of these s upermarkets have been doing that. They have got little specials here and there, and we appreciate what they have done. And we do know that during this COVID - 19 pandemic prices have been all over the place. In fact, I can remember going to the supermarket, and we normally pay under three dollars for 18 eggs. I th ink it was like $2.80 or something like that. And then I went during the period, and the price was up to $6.50. And I said, on checkout, I said to the cashier, Hey, what are these prices all about? Obv iously more than double. And she tried to explain. But she said the manager was right there. And I had a word with him. And he was very cordial. And he explained, he said, Yes, these are the prices overseas. They have been more than double, and we just pass it on. And I understand that. So I am clear on that, you know. So we definitely need the cooperation there. And then if you saw on television that some of the chicken [suppliers] (where we get our meat from, Per-due and the other one), had staffing problems because many of their people were positive for the virus. And so that affected them. And you saw the prices probably jump about a dollar a pound on these chic kens. I understand that. One thing I do say is that bread has been able to . . . I do not eat bread, but I buy it. But it has mai ntained its price, which is good, Mr. Speaker. And then, you know, [in] Bermuda, being that we import just about everything, to put a price control on food would be very, very difficult. As I said earlier, we do not control the price of freight. Nor do the s upermarkets that import this food. So that can vary. And then talking about freight, we are talking about trains, trucks, shipping or aircraft. But that is what we are subject to. But I think with the cooperation of the supermarkets in Bermuda we can get this informati on out on our app that would tell our folks where they can get bargains from. And I do know we have some folks in Bermuda, they go from supermarket to supermarket because they heard eggs were, let us say, $1.50 here and it costs $2.50 where they are. So th ey will run from supermarket to supermarket, not realising the cost of the travel to get from one to the other and the wear and tear on the car or bike they are riding or driving. So when you add it up at the end of the day, going from shop to shop, you ma y be getting that product cheaper here and there, but when you put all the overall costs together, you really are paying more. So with this Bill and what it intends to do, and with the help of the supermarkets, residents will be able to go on the app and they can see what these items will cost and what they are being offered at each supermarket, and [they can] govern themselves ac-cordingly. So with that, Mr. Speaker, I conclude. Thank you.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Deputy Speaker. I would like to call on the Member, MP Dunkley. MP Dunkley, would you like to make your contribution at this point? [No audible reply]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMP Dunkley? Okay. MP Ben Smith. [Pause]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMP Commissiong, would you like to make your contribution? Hon. Walter H . Roban: Mr. Speaker, I was on the list for contributing.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerOkay. All right. Deputy Premier, would you like to make your contribution now? 4230 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly Hon. Walter H. Roban: The other Members you have called have lined up. I will go if none of them are available.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerNo one seems to be responding at this moment. Hon. Walter H. Roban: Okay, Mr. Speaker. I will now make my contribution. Thank you for the opportunity to contribute to this Bill. I would like to congratulate the Premier for bringin g this measure to the House. This is in …
No one seems to be responding at this moment.
Hon. Walter H. Roban: Okay, Mr. Speaker. I will now make my contribution. Thank you for the opportunity to contribute to this Bill. I would like to congratulate the Premier for bringin g this measure to the House. This is in succession with a number of measures that the Government has committed to in addressing the cost of living, of which the Premier addressed in his brief as it relates to having reformed the old Price Commission into a body which we felt was more fit for the purposes of which it was needed at this time upon becoming the Government. And further amendments, of which are being brought today, which will further refine the activities of the commission to deal with the issue of pri cing in a very modern way by providing the tools for acquiring data, which is sorely needed, and also the capacity for the commission to investigate and effectively look into concerns about price movements, price fluctuation and the unfortunate phenomenon, which I am not going to suggest is rampant here, but we know it as “price gouging.” Now, [I am] very pleased that Deputy Speaker MP Burgess is going to be the chair of this commi ssion going forward. I give thanks to the previous member, Senator Ant hony Richardson, the former chair, for the work that he started. So we will press on, and with these new amendments in the Bill which is being brought today, [we will] be prepared to do more around this area of pricing. And I wish to thank particularly th e Deputy Speaker for his remarks, because they did reflect clearly that the issue of pricing in Bermuda is not si mple. The pricing in the grocery stores is not a simple phenomenon. It is impacted by a number of things. And with the tools that I believe thi s Bill will bring it will help not only the Government, but the public, to understand and relate to pricing in a much more inform ative and sensible way. As the Minister who has been dealing with the Price Commission and its work in the months since I became Minister of Home Affairs and responsible for Consumer Affairs, what I have seen is that, unfort unately, in Bermuda there is another mythology (I would say, in one word) and misunderstanding about pricing. But at the same time, the impact of pricing is real to everyone, which contributes to some of the reaction that many people have in relation to when they go into stores, particularly grocery stores, and they see pricing and they see the changes often from week to week. And it disturbs them. Obviously, as Honourable Members, including the Honourable Member Gordon- Pamplin, have said, they often react to that by having to conserve their spending, depending on their circumstance, or perhaps even going elsewhere spending time moving around the Island, going elsewhere, looking perhaps for options. So pricing is real to people. But there is also a lot of misinformation around pricing and misperception around pricing. And one thing that I have had the benefit of, particularly since the pandemic, is having a lot more time to talk to and interact with our grocery stores, our wholesalers and others. Obviously under my portfolio is the Environment, which would mean farmers and fishers, as well. So dealing with not only the imported issues around pricing, but also the local market as well and how that has been impacted by the last three months. Now, understanding that there are aspects of how we govern our food environment, the distribution and the safety and the management of food are also shared by another Ministry (i.e., the Ministry of Health), and they play another role. They also play a role in the issues around food and establishments that distribute food, whether it be restaurants, grocery stores and other outlets. So they play another role. But the pricing i ssue is something that certai nly the Consumer Affairs persons are actually quite familiar with because they get a lot of the complaints around concerns about pricing on different services in Bermuda. And I am happy that we have or are going to have a commi ssion that is going to have the tools to actually focus on the pricing in the grocery stores in a way. Not necessarily to police, Mr. Speaker, but act ually to monitor, to acquire information and to manage it in a way that informs the public of the reality of our pricing, and, if necessary, take steps that will ultimat ely help our public to be better served by the services that they go out and get from the grocery stores and other establishments that serve food. This obviously will contribute to a much healt hier environment and a less-costly environment and ensure that people are just . . . like, their relationship around understanding pricing [will improve]. And I do believe that this is a role that this commission can play. I have no doubt that MP Burgess, with his wisdom, experience, his focus and his tenacity around this issue, will be able to begin that process and make the difference that I know he desires to make with the team that he has on the commission, and with other agencies of government. So I look forward to the work that they can do. But I am even more excited about how the public will benefit from that work. Because it is important in this time, as the price of food is nothing that is less exposed to any one sector of the community or the ot her. We all are paying these prices no matter where we go in Bermuda. You cannot go off to a place like . . . we do not have places like . . . although we do have our local comparison. But the examples in North America, in Europe of having different chains of stores
Bermuda House of Assembly that have dramatically different pricing which actually service the needs of different sectors of the community. We do not have those dramatic differences in Bermuda, like an Aldi compared to a Waitrose like in the UK and Europe, or similar, sor t of, very up- market grocers in North America, compared to some of the ones like a Safeway or like a Kroger or even some of the other discount food places, or the difference between Whole Foods and some of the other markets. We do not have that in Bermuda because of [our] size and other issues. So we need to help each other in this space. I can say that, as Minister Burgess has said, in my di scussions that I have had with the grocers they have been very open and transparent with me around the issues that they have faced through the pandemic. The examples raised by MP Burgess around pricing are real, around eggs and other things. And we have had to deal with those issues here. And I would certainly try and advise our public to not be so moved by what you see on TV happening in North America around some of the meat producers and that. Yes, that does have an impact on us. But I can assure you, based on information that I have had, that our grocers and wholesalers have done a pretty good job making sure that s ome of the shocks and shortages did not impact Bermuda. They had very good plans working with the shippers to make sure that our supply lines were continuous. There were obviously a few goods here and there which we found often sporadically short, but that was because the production of those goods, like toilet paper and paper towels, in other markets were pushed to capacity and they had challenges with sourcing. But they were able to navigate around that and also try and keep prices of certain goods, partic ularly staple goods, reasonably stable within their control. But I feel that they will continue to try and be open. And I have encouraged the grocers to actually be quite more transparent with what happens with them and pricing and with their issues around the goods that they get so that the public understands more so that certain accusations of price gouging may not happen if people know more about why the prices of certain items have moved the way that they have. And if the grocery stores in Bermuda can be more open and transparent about how they are impacted by prices, particularly because we import so much, that will be helpful to all of the public. So, Mr. Speaker, I could say more, but I will not. I will let the Bill take its course. It is pleasing t o know that the Opposition is favourable to what we are attempting to do here. And I once again congratulate the Premier on bringing this Bill. It is going to refine further our process around the work of the cost of li ving body. A thank you to the work that MP Burgess and his team are doing, and I look forward, as the Minister responsible for Consumer Affairs, to benefi t-ing from that work so that we can help the Bermuda public even more. And the last point I make is that this will contribute to the raisin g of financial literacy as well, because if people know [more] about costs and how they can manage their money in relation to costs, they themselves can have more power with managing their financial needs. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Deputy Premier. Is MP Dunkley available now, or MP Smith?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMP Smith, would you like to make your contribution? Actually, we are at three minutes before one. And we are going to go to lunch at one. Would you like to start now, or would you want us just to go to lunch and come back?
Mr. Ben SmithWe can go to lunch, and I will start when we come back.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerOkay. Members, considering how close we are to lunch, let us just take th e extra three minutes break, and we will come back at two o’clock. And MP Smith will be the first speaker on this matter when we return at two o’clock. Is that okay, Members?
Some Hon. Members Some Hon. MembersGood idea. Yes, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Hon. E. David Burt: Hello, Mr. Speaker. Do you need me to move us to lunch?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerPremier, would you like to move the motion to [suspend for] lunch? Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I move that this Honourable House do now adjourn until 2:00 pm, for lunch.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Premier. Members, the House now stands adjourned until 2:00 pm. As always, just for ease and to ensure that you do not have a problem getting back on, you can mute your microphones so it is available for you to just turn it right back on at 2:00 …
Thank you, Premier. Members, the House now stands adjourned until 2:00 pm. As always, just for ease and to ensure that you do not have a problem getting back on, you can mute your microphones so it is available for you to just turn it right back on at 2:00 pm. Members, enjoy your lunch. The House stands adjourned.
Proceedings suspended at 12:57 pm
Proceedings resumed at 2:00 pm 4232 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly [Hon. Dennis P. Lister, Jr., Speaker, in the Chair]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMembers, it is no w 2:00 pm and we can resume from our lunch break. I trust all enjoyed their break. MP Smith, are you still there?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerOkay, MP Smith, you have the floor and you can continue on the debate. Just for the listening audience, we are on the second reading of the Cost of Living Commission Amendment Act 2020. The Premier brought the matter and opened it, and we are now on I think our …
Okay, MP Smith, you have the floor and you can continue on the debate. Just for the listening audience, we are on the second reading of the Cost of Living Commission Amendment Act 2020. The Premier brought the matter and opened it, and we are now on I think our fourth or fifth speaker for the morning, and it is MP Ben Smith. MP, you have the floor.
BILL
SECOND READING
COST OF LIVING COMMISSION AMENDMENT ACT 2020
[Continuation of debate thereon]
Mr. Ben SmithThank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it is interesting how perception can change depending on the circumstances. So, pr ior to COVID -19 there were some comments and there was some language around the grocery stores and the wholesalers that was more in the line of them being very greedy …
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it is interesting how perception can change depending on the circumstances. So, pr ior to COVID -19 there were some comments and there was some language around the grocery stores and the wholesalers that was more in the line of them being very greedy and them treating people in a certain way. And over the time that we have been dealing with COVID -19, in many cases the perception has changed because we have all realised how essential those services are. When we were on shelter -in-place and the grocery stores were maintaining our ability to feed our families and doing everything that they could to su pport the community to make sure that we were able to sustain ourselves, in many cases the perception of what those services are and how they were being provided changed. And so far, today, the way people have been speaking about the grocery stores and wholes alers that are involved with this particular Bill, the comments are not on the same line as they were pre-COVID -19 and have taken on the atmosphere of where the country has landed with how these entities have been supporting the country. We have all been to the store at different times and seen prices that maybe seemed to be out of line. I know that there are lots of people that will go to different stores to see if there is a different price for certain items, specifically now that there are so many peop le in our country that are really struggling to be able to survive in Bermuda, not having the same amount of money that they would have had prior to COVID -19, and trying to figure out ways for them to sustain their family in this period. So any way that we can go about trying to reduce those costs is going to be important. But we also have to mindful that we cannot just point out certain areas that we think have been greedy and treating people in a certain way. We have to be able to look at the details be hind some of the pricing. And a lot of times in the grocery stores locally, we have some stores that have a larger buying power than other stores. So, sometimes a price that is different in one store compared to the other is because that store has the abil ity to buy at a larger bulk, and because of that they are able to have a lower price. But we also must know that sometimes the price is the same, but they bought in bulk and they have actually been able to get an increase in profit because they have been able to buy in bulk. So, there are a lot of hidden factors in what happens in the pricing for those stores. Knowing the details of how that business works and knowing that they are dealing with, in a lot of cases, low margins . . . because there are a lot of factors that go into that final price that we see on the store shelf. [If it is] an item purchased overseas, there is going to be a price that involves taxes and shipping and all the rest that goes in. If it is going through a wholesaler first, then there is another step that has gone into it. And the wholesaler is important because they are able to buy their bulk and maybe store it at a level that the grocery store does not. All of those factors are in it when it reaches that shelf. So, we have to be m indful, when we look at that price, and understand all of the different steps that have to go into putting that item on the shelf. I am just saying that so that as we are trying to come up with ways we have to be careful that we do not just point fingers and say that certain groups are being greedy when we do not know all the details. There are going to be some cases where there are some prices that were out of line and probably needed to be pulled back in line. And, hopefully, what is being put forward no w is going to allow us to not have those particular issues happen, where, even within a chain, you can go to one store and see their price and then go to another store within that same chain and see a significantly different price. Maybe, depending on what part of the country that store is in, they put in a different mark -up. But, once again, there are factors in there that we might not know. So, unless we are going to have the ability to get into the details of why those prices are different and how they w ere brought about, I am not sure that we will have all the answers we want from what is being put forward. But if this is going to help us to lower our prices for our people, because we have so many people that need to have lower costs of food . . . so many people are struggling. We have so many people at present that do not even have the money to go to
Bermuda House of Assembly the grocery store, so they are getting their food from food banks and from donations by the third sector. So, as we as a country continue to work towards ge tting prices that allow all of our citizens to be sustained, it is important that we look at all factors from all angles when we are making our decisions. With that, thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, MP Smith. And I would like to now recogn ise MP Michael Scott. MP Scott, would you like to speak now? MP Scott? [No audible reply]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerOkay, let me see. MP Tinee Furbert?
Mrs. Tinee FurbertGood afternoon to everyone. I would just like to weigh in on this Bill. It is a Bill that has been asked for, I am sure, for quite some time because that has been the plea of our people wanting to know . . . making a lot of noise …
Good afternoon to everyone. I would just like to weigh in on this Bill. It is a Bill that has been asked for, I am sure, for quite some time because that has been the plea of our people wanting to know . . . making a lot of noise about the cost of food in Bermuda. And quite rightly so. The cost of food can be very expensive in Berm uda. I was just working out . . . you know, I try to do a budget for my family trying to use the 50/30/20 rule. If anyone is unfamiliar with that, the rule is 50 per cent of your wage is for your needs, 30 per cent of your wage is for your wants, and 20 per cent of your wage is to go towards some sort of savings, maybe long term savings. And th en looking at that 50 per cent budget, food actually falls within that need, and it is something that we need to be able to survive off of. We need food to nourish our bodies to survive. And so food is a need. And so it is in our everyday presence. People recognise that. They are going to the grocery stores. They are seeing the cost of food. Maybe they have a family of 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 to 8, the cost of food can be tremendous for many, many families. And so, when we look at those areas of expense in our household, food is important to people. Now, some may say, Well, you can make a choice in regard to what it is you are going to buy to try to reduce what you are spending on food. And, yes, you can make a choice. But the community needs to be made aware of what is out there as far as prices. I believe my colleague MP Gordon- Pamplin spoke to having to shop around and us going from shop to shop to take a look at prices and to compare. It is very difficult in this day and age, sometimes, to be able to do that if you are a parent who works and you are busy with extracurricular activities. You are very busy with other activities, organisations that you may be a part of. And so having the opportunity to view something electronically, maybe through an app of some sort , would make people’s lives much easier. I believe there are people out in the community who have actually started to go to different grocery stores and collate the pricing. But it is great that Go vernment can get involved to be able to allow this tracking of information to be on a constant basis, b ecause while people may start something, they may not necessarily be able to finish it and stay on top of it. And so I am hoping that Government uses this as a medium to be able to stay on top of pricing as it r elates to food. I just wanted to speak a little bit to the market value. I believe Deputy Speaker Burgess spoke earlier about how people were making a demand for us to keep prices . . . or control pricing. And I do agree with him that we should not be in th e business of controlling prices. But we should be promoting market value and we should be promoting the opportunity for people to be able to compare with competition. You can go online and you can look at a product and you see the pricing right in front of you. If you take Amazon, for example, you just put in the item, let us say a pillow, and so many different types of pillows will come up with different pricing. And you have the opportunity to choose what falls within your budget. And within Ber-muda we do not have that opportunity to be able to do something like that. And so, you know, I fully support this Bill in regard to electronically being able to collect data and Government taking that responsibility so that people can compare pricing, whether it has grown or whether it has gone down. I remember as a young girl, my grandmother was very diligent in going with the newspaper and she would see who had the specials of the week. And she would send us on our bikes to shop all up and down our Island to the different stores to be able to get the items that were on special so that she could stick wit hin her budget. And I am sure many families may have experienced that as well. But gone are the days that we even need to do that anymore, to have to go up and dow n the Island to compare pricing and to get special pricing by taking time to travel. So, I thank my grandmother for teaching us that we should shop around for the best prices. But gone are the days where we have to drive in our cars or go on our bikes to g o all around the Island to compare pricing. This is not uncommon to many jurisdictions. There are many jurisdictions that have the opportunity to collate pricing and prices all over the world and they make this information public. So, this is not uncom4234 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly mon. It is quite common. I would like to also see us move towards steps where we are actually publicly making available the prices of prescriptions and pharmaceuticals for our community. We know we have a demographic of people who do not have access to pharmac euticals, partic ularly those persons who find themselves just being able to afford HIP insurance, where they fall ill and they may have to buy medications out of their pocket. My hope is that we move towards also making pharmaceuticals and prescriptions more transparent in our community so that people can maybe have access to a government website or have access to an app where they can go on and see what sort of drug or pharmaceutical they can get across the Island. That will also help with saving costs or providing budgets or making our community or our products at market value. So, I encourage us as a Government, or Gover nment later to come, to consider that as well. I am just going to jump back a bit because I did mention there was a call for Government t o do some sort of regulation when it comes to the cost of food. And, actually, if anyone participated in the recent Black Lives Matter marches, one of the outcomes at the end was a proposal to boycott grocery stores. And I suppose the organisation actually did change that suggestion of boycotting grocery stores. But I am quite certain that that proposal had come because people were complaining about the cost of food. They thought that they would, we would, make an impact by not supporting certain grocery stores until they reduced their pricing. And so, I mean, that is a serious thing where we would have to go to those lengths to try to get groceries to take a look at their pricing. So, it is very important to the people. This information is going to be very important for Bermuda with our price regulation and creating a market value for different products. Someone mentioned that there are many factors that go into the costing of products. And we must not forget that. There is a high cost for shipping. There is a high cost of even competing with other countries that have high levels of importation of products. And you can get different brands for different pricing. Companies offer you better pricing when you are bu ying at a large quantity. And sometimes Bermuda falls into a category . . . we do not have huge numbers like many countries will have, with millions of people. We have a population of approximately 60,000 people. Companies have to go to their manufacturers and say, you know, I am going to buy this quantity, versus a larger quantity that another company can buy from them. The negotiation of pricing is not always the easiest. And you cannot always get the best pricing based on the quantities that you are buying. And so, we have to keep that in mind. And I hope that we are able to collate prices across different brands or pricing across different products so that our communi-ty can have the opportunity to see what the different levels of costing are. So, I just wanted to share that. I am in total support of this Bill. Again, I hope that we also make a move to move this towards pharmaceuticals. And I just really hope that this does help to even out some of the costs that are related to our foods in Bermuda, which will have a great, great benefit to our peopl e. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member. I would now like to recognise Honourable Member Dunkley. Are you still with us? Honourable Member Dunkley? [No audible reply]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerHonourable Member Cannonier, Opp osition Le ader, are you available? Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I am here.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerOkay. Would you like to make your comments now? Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Certainly. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have listened with interest to all of my colleagues, regardless of which side of the table they may be sitting on. And I believe what I am hearing is a consensus …
Okay. Would you like to make your comments now? Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Certainly. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have listened with interest to all of my colleagues, regardless of which side of the table they may be sitting on. And I believe what I am hearing is a consensus that there is better understanding among some of us about how all of this works. In and of itself, the heart of the Bill is good intent, whereb y we want to ensure that the public are aware of ongoing prices and the likes. But I guess, as a premise, when I look at this I am not exactly sure why we are spending money to advertise or to put out there to the public different pricing when at any point in time now you can open up a newspaper. You can just look at yesterday’s or Wednesday’s newspaper and you can see all of the major supermarkets, the grocers, advertising their pricing on an array of goods, goods that are on sale, and the likes. And understanding the industry . . . and I will declare my interest. I certainly did work for Marketplace for many years when I first came back from school. Understanding the market and the challenges that they do have, I have appreciated the Deputy Speaker’s wor ds, because it sounds as if being on the Commission has led to a greater understanding. And the margins that the grocery stores are working with are not the kind of outrageous margins that we see in many of the other industries. And then, when I am trying to understand when we talk about essential commodities and the likes, I must say I am wondering why we are not look-ing at some of the other commodities within the industry, but yet we are focusing in on the grocers.
Bermuda House of Assembly Now, that is not to say that there has been some gouging. I cannot speak on behalf of that. Ma ybe there has been. I do get the feeling that there has been a lot of hype around that, which is why, as the former speaker just said, you saw a call to speak against prices for a particular grocer. I am sure that common sense prevailed and maybe someone must have had some conversations to talk to them about this here, which is why it did not continue from there. But it is important to understand that this i ndustry has been wrestling with its pricing and the margins that they have been working with ever since the recession hit us in 2008 and 2009. And the first place that we go to, especially as Government, because, yes, we are receiving comments from people, Well, you know, pricing this and pricing that , and groceries affect everyone because everyone has got to eat. The first place that we go has traditionally been to the gr ocers, to the supermarkets. And I can say that when we as a Government went to them, they obliged, if you recall, in having regular discounted food for the gen-eral public to help in aiding all of Bermuda to get through the tough times. Well, here we are again, going through tough times. And we are now going back to the well of the grocers. And I would have thought that with the compilation of what took place in 2008 and 2009 and the information that we would have gathered there concerning groceries, from the fact that we even had a co-op supermarket, there would be some understanding by now of how the pricing gets to where it is. And so, the supermarkets are already in an extremely competitive market —already an extremely competitive market. Not only are they competing with each other, but as was just mentioned, well, we do not have Kroger’s or we do not have maybe like a Costco where you get these bulk prices. We do have whol esalers who do sell grocery at lesser prices, and not the full array of things, because even they understand the complexities of running a supermarket and what goes into it and the costs that go into it, notwithst anding the fact that these supermarkets . . . the majority of them hire, as we have been talking about Black Lives Matter, black people in Bermuda, who are ma king a living off of working at these supermarkets. And so, there are these knock -on effects that when we just throw out the fact that we are going to check these prices without sitting down and having a relationship with the grocers to understand . . . I am happy to see that the Commission has come into ef-fect. But I think the Commission’s directive really should be on having a better relationship with these industry leaders.
Hon. Walter H. Roban: Point of order, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMember, he asked for a point of order. What is your point of order, Member? Hon. Walter H. Roban: Yes, Mr. Spe aker, the Honourable Member is —
The SpeakerThe SpeakerOh, it is the Minister. Minister Roban, I didn’t recognise you at first. Go ahead Minister. POINT OF ORDER [Misleading] Hon. Walter H. Roban: The Honourable Member, I do not think he is intentionally mislead ing the House, but there was nothing said that we did not have a rel …
Oh, it is the Minister. Minister Roban, I didn’t recognise you at first. Go ahead Minister.
POINT OF ORDER [Misleading]
Hon. Walter H. Roban: The Honourable Member, I do not think he is intentionally mislead ing the House, but there was nothing said that we did not have a rel ationship with the grocers. I stated that I have been talking to the grocers myself through this period and have learned a lot about pricing and what they face. So, this Government has, f rom the inception of the state of emergency, developed a close, one- on-one relationship in weekly discussions with the main grocers on issues of their concern and also ours.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Minister. Member, Opposition Leader, you can conti nue. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe I did acknowledge the fact that those Members were doing a good job and you could hear that they have a better understanding of the market. I did say …
Thank you, Minister. Member, Opposition Leader, you can conti nue.
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe I did acknowledge the fact that those Members were doing a good job and you could hear that they have a better understanding of the market. I did say that in my comments. What I was alluding to was to continue to have a relationship with the grocers on things that might affect the overall pricing in and of itself. And what I mean by that is, maybe when we stop talking about essential commodities, maybe we should be talking about the things that affect the prices and how we can go after those things. An example of that would be fuel costs. How is it that the Government can start looking at fuel costs? Because fuel at the end of the day drives many of the cost of living prices that we see out there right now, especially within our supermarket. How can we work with these kinds of things to help them control their costs and drive down the end retail price to the consumer so that we can effectively see some of the things that can be done and bring down the cost of living? At the rate that we are doing it right now, it appears as if we are approaching it from the end where there is little room to make leeway here or little room to make progress. Let us get to some of these substantial other things t hat cause the goods in Bermuda to go up. That is shipping, and those kinds of things; that is fuel, as I said, which contributes to an incredible cost to the price of goods at the end of the day. And I believe that that is where the infrastructure is, the foundation of where maybe we can start ma king some headway into driving down the cost. 4236 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly It is apparent as you listen to the Minister and Members of the party (the Government) that they have come to an understanding that there are more variables involved here. But I do know that reducing the cost and approaching it from the point of view that fuel is one of those areas that we can start approac hing, then that is something that I believe will make headway in driving down those costs. Now, if we are going to be putting the prices of goods from different supermarkets . . . well, I can assure you that COVID -19 has driven that to the for efront. And not only is it in the Royal Gazette where you can see pricing, but now it is electronic so that if you go on to buy grocery goods, not only are they putting their prices on there, some of them . . . and, if not all of them, then maybe the Commission can be dri ving their efforts behind saying, Listen, we want you to put your pricing out there electronically because you are already delivering groceries , then make sure that the prices are there electronically so that people can do their homework and people can start doing price comparisons for themselves , and sit in their own living room or kitchen or whatever it may be and they will be able to do that. What we have now is that we are saying okay, Government is going to put money behind an effort of putting these prices out there, when we can certainly sit down and say Well, listen, grocers, you’re already electronically pu tting the stuff out there, we want you to start putting out more pricing and a broader range of all of your products. This is an opportunity. We heard over this COVID -19 how people in Bermuda were complaining that many of the retailers were opening up. Yo u could not go into them. You had to order online, but they did not have the pricing up. And so, this is a huge opportunity that we have to help drive many of the industries in Bermuda towards that way, and all we simply need to do as the Go vernment is sit down and come to some conclusions, but certainly not advertising (and maybe I can be corrected) the cost of goods of all of these different s upermarkets. And in a small market like Bermuda . . . Listen, I buy all of my groceries. I am the one who does the grocery shopping in my home. So I come into contact with all kinds of people. And yes, as I heard from a Minister earlier saying how people go from one shop to the other to the other. That is not going to change. People are in the habit of doing these thi ngs. But what we now want through technology is to be able to have people start doing this stuff from home. And this is where I believe we can make i nroads with the supermarkets in helping them out. But it is not just that. When you start talking about ess ential commodities, to me, an essential commodity is school supplies. How do we get our school supplies so that we are helping the average Bermudian who is just trying to survive during this time to get their product at a better price and drive entrepreneurship towards this kind of thing where they can get out there and compete and drive the prices down? So I appreciate what I have heard thus far. But I believe that there are other industries that we can be looking at, primarily the shipping industry and the fuel industry. These are the areas that I believe we can start looking at that will affect pricing. And that will be far more effective in helping bring down the prices as this Commission continues to deal with and speak to the different industries, like the grocery stores, to aid them in getting their costs down. You know even in a small market like Berm uda you are going to get these variances. And that is because it is complex. This whole retail pricing is very, very, very complex in that so many things come into factor. But I would have thought that if the Gover nment were going to implement a Commission it would start with the more fundamental commodities in Bermuda that are helping to drive the cost up, and work with those. And maybe they are. Maybe th e Minister or the Premier will speak to some of these things that they are working on. But it does appear, unfortunately for the grocery market (because it touches everyone), that it has been the centre of attention. Sometimes justly —and more times, I woul d say, unjustly, not taking into factor the many things that they have done to assist Bermuda during its tough times. So we will move on with this Bill. I wanted to ensure that I gave my comments about what I believe the Commission should be focusing on, and I apprec iate the time that you have given me. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. N. H. Cole SimonsIn essence, I support the d irection in which we are going. But I also believe that more has to be done —shopping locally and suppor ting our farming and fishing and agricultural industries. In essence, I know that when you go to E urope and the UK, you go …
In essence, I support the d irection in which we are going. But I also believe that more has to be done —shopping locally and suppor ting our farming and fishing and agricultural industries. In essence, I know that when you go to E urope and the UK, you go to the various markets that are held maybe three or four days a week and you can buy fresh produce, fresh meat, at a reduced cost. And I think this is an option that we really have to roll up our sleeves and ensure that we support our local
Bermuda House of Assembly agricultural industry as a whole. They do have cha llenges, and I know that some of the fishermen get concessions in regard to fuel costs; farmers get concessions in regard to equipment and fuel costs as well. But I believe that if we supported our farmers, our fishermen we can get wholesome fresh foods at a far reduced cost than at some of the grocery stores, and we will support an ever -growing industry. These guys that are in business in those industries have been working hard for years. I know that we produce local lamb and poultry. We have an abattoir in Somer-set. And those industries need the support that we have and they also provide healthy fresh foods. My biggest concern is that when you go to the grocery store, the healthy foods are more expensive. Fresh fruits, fresh vegetables and fresh milk are all more expensive in the grocery stores than junk food. The junk food is as cheap as ever. And I am real concerned about the health and welfare of Bermudians. We have to make the fresh fruits, the fresh veget ables, the fresh meats, more affordable, more economical if we are concerned about sustainability of healthy Bermudians. So, my sole contribution is, as part of the r eport m ore emphasis can be placed on supporting our local farming industry and our local fishing industry, because they are the ones that will provide the most nutritious and fresh vegetables and quality products. So, having said that, I have this one comment to make that somehow we have to look at their pricing too. Because I remember going to a grocery store and I saw a red snapper. And the red snapper was priced at $16.50 per pound. And when I went and bought a pound of Bermuda fish that was $25.00, $30.00 per pound, by the Bay. So, again, yes, there are issues to be worked out. But I still believe that if we promote the local industry, if we promote backyard gardening . . . People have said to me over the years, while I was Minister of the Environment, that if you have a bac kyard garden and community gardens you can reduce 20 per cent of your food costs —by growing your own produce through our community gardens and bac kyard gardens. And I believe that it is valid and that it will help, going forward, in reducing the costs of essential items that form a part of Bermudian’s diet and appetite. So, those are my few contributions. Thank you.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member S imons.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerWould you like to make your contrib ution?
Mr. Rolfe CommissiongIs that Mr. Scott? I will defer, Mr. Speaker, to Mr. Scott. Go ahead.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerOkay, Mr. Scott? Hon. Michael J. Scott: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am very grateful to you and to my colleague Mr. Commi ssiong.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerGo right ahead. Hon. Michael J. Scott: So, Mr. Speaker, I am content and pleased to make a contribution to the discussion on the Cost of Living Commission Amendment Bill under the pilotage of the Premier. It is, of course, a monetary tool that seems to be both the gravamen …
Go right ahead.
Hon. Michael J. Scott: So, Mr. Speaker, I am content and pleased to make a contribution to the discussion on the Cost of Living Commission Amendment Bill under the pilotage of the Premier. It is, of course, a monetary tool that seems to be both the gravamen and policy aim of this amend-ment to our statutory platform to deal with the cost of living in our country, focused, of course, on consumer goods. Mr. Speaker, we debate this legislation in the context of a Bermuda where this tiny micro- state has sustained one of the more sharp price increases in almost all countries in the world. For a tiny state, these historic price increases are the context in which we now find ourselves seeking to use a tool to monitor the pricing of essential consumer goods. And I say that it was a sharp increase, and I take the point, Mr. Speaker, of the President of the Bermuda Industrial Union. It helps inform my statement that we exper ienced sharp price increases across all areas —not just foods, but across rents, the costs of housing, a feature that has driven a brain drain in our country, in our midst, of primarily black young families who cannot find it within their inco me brackets, within their i ncome -making power, to start a home for themselves and their children in the same or equivalent way that their same sex, same income, same education qual ifying white counterparts can. And so, that is the other part of it, that there is this history of the sharp price increases that the President of the BIU informs us be-gan in the 1970s across all critical areas —mortgage costs, cost of owning a home; food prices, everything from soup to nuts to eggs and milk and bread— and it left the young family . . . it left mouths of white starting families hitting the floor, too. But it hit all of us as cit izens. But the disparate income disparities that all of our economists, again across our history, have been [INAUDIBLE] to point out to the world called Bermuda . . . these gaping disparities of our income purchasing power, have caused emigration to England and to Jamaica and parts of the world where youths starting families have resolved that this is where they can make a way, reasonably, for their families. 4238 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly So, that is the context that we introduced, as the Deputy Premier indicated this monitoring, a tool which is meant primarily, Mr. Speaker, to stimulate competition because the price being set in the market is being monitored. It is being monitored in a modern technological way. And it is also meant, significantly, you might say, to produce in the food chain, particularly the agricultural food chain where all the important healthy agricultural goods that we need to sustain life for our chil dren at our kitchen tables, to produce resil ience of price volatility occurring in the food chain and costs for these essential goods. But I want my contribution to remain one that is in the context not of merely consumer goods but across every level of endeavour that is making it nec-essary for any reasonable bold Government to address the cost, as I said, of housing, mortgage rates, and competition is important. And I heard the Opposition Leader say (a lmost stunningly, to me) that the competition in the country is already a competitive market —but a competitive market for players that are the status quo part of the system that is actually causing already the problem that we face in this country. And when I say “we” [I mean] the consumer, a consumer class t hat has been dealing with this issue since the 1970s, the benchmark year given to us by the President of the Bermuda Industrial Union. I mean, it has been too long that we engage in this status quo problem in our country of this, first of all, disparate i ncome purchasing power between blacks and whites, and these remarkably spiked- tothe-heavens prices of all goods, services and pro ducts. So, this tool introduces itself into an important mission -critical area, Mr. Speaker, because families must feed their families. But the Government . . . and I know that as a Member of the Government we have committed to addressing across the board the cost of living in this country as it needs to be. It just simply cannot sustain itself in a fair and just Bermuda. We have got to stop causing our young people to em igrate to other countries because the housing there is cheaper and they know that they can make a start with their families in another land. We lose the benefit of their contribution to our country. The competit ion, therefore, must fall into this consideration, Mr. Speaker, by having more players, as said by the Opposition Leader, more players, black owners of competitive entities in the marketplace that will drive competition in the pricing of goods and services . The Premier speaks, leads, and drives the FinTech initiative in our country. And that platform will be, and can be, a platform that helps to provide the needed investment capital through a system of de-ployment of cryptocurrencies, bitcoins, and a bank that will receive and transact new forms of tokens, new forms of blockchain, technical means of purchas-ing in the form of either bitcoins or other kinds of purchasing power within the blockchain space. These are important in my view, Mr. Speaker. These ar e important tools to be added to today’s Bill to introduce the needed competition where there are more players. And I pray and hope that they are black players so that we reduce the absolute deficit of ow ners of capital, owners of entities that are in the hands of blacks so that we are not confined to an exclusive class of consumers of goods and services. So, Mr. Speaker, the market is capable. I heard the Deputy Premier indicate that we do not have and find [INAUDIBLE] or Costco’s , et cetera, in the market. But this Bermuda market must be capable of having competitive structures in place that compete with the existing . . . whether they are supermarkets or gas markets or liquor markets, whatever they are. This is the only way that the Bermuda market is goi ng to bring their prices down. I began my discussion and my comments by noting this deliberate increase in prices in this tiny i sland. It was deliberate. It was harmful. It was disrup-tive. And it needs an equal level of force produced by competition —more players in the market —to flatten this ridiculous curve or mountain that exists in our country, which is driving our people off island and is making the politics of progressivism in the Bermuda Progressive Labour Party or, indeed, even in the One Bermuda A lliance . . . and it is making it impossible for us to be at all credible, that we are acting in the best interests of our people. And so, an important tool is the Cost of Living amendment. But the mission critical, Mr. Speaker, the mission critical fiel d of endeavour has to be expanded to the other features of living in our country —the c apacity to house oneself, to start a family, to own a home, to have one’s talents that one has honed at school and come home with a professional qualific ation recognised in income and wages and salaries that are equal to and not disparate to their black people’s white counterparts. Interest rates must be less. And this debate is raging in the world post -COVID -19 because of the impact of people not being able to finance their mor tgages. And we must not be exempt from it . . . about these kinds of new policies to deal with interest rates being reduced significantly in these times when pe ople are unable to make what was their mortgage pa yments that they made pre- COVID -19. Thes e must be the actions of the Government, a whole basket of r esponses to draw our people back onshore from places to where they have fled offshore. Mr. Speaker, competition is critical. Price vol atility management is critical. The volatility that we saw from the 1970s until now has not relented. It continues to increase and it is making living in our country un-sustainable. And no democracy or place that wants to say that it is running a micro- state democracy can have these distortions in it and say that we are go vBermuda House of Assembly erning well or that we are governing in the interests of our people or that we are doing justice for and to our people. The status quo situation must be changed. And the opportunity presents itself today, certainly with this Bill, but with future in itiatives of bold initi atives to make this place called Bermuda a safer place, a more reasonably safe place and a place where people’s cost of living is brought to within reasonable pr oportions —reachable proportions, fair and just proportions. It is not th ere now. It is a complete wild, wild west in terms of our price controls and it has to stop. And governments have the duty and obligation to e nsure that it is addressed and made viable for our people. Those are my observations, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member Scott.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerBefore you, let me just find out if Mr. Dunkley is there because his name is on the list. Mr. Dunkley, are you there? [No audible reply]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMr. C ommission, you have the floor.
Mr. Rolfe CommissiongThank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this amendment is very i mportant. But I think it behoves me to put this in a broader context in terms of public policy. We are in the process of re- engineering Bermuda’s economy at a time when our economy is in crisis. We …
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this amendment is very i mportant. But I think it behoves me to put this in a broader context in terms of public policy. We are in the process of re- engineering Bermuda’s economy at a time when our economy is in crisis. We are doing so because we feel it is necessary to ensure that when we come out beyond this period we have a more equitable, fairer, dynamic economy that allows for full expression of talent and ability, notwithstanding one’s race, social class, and the likes. Because as the Premier said, and I agree, an economy that can reflect that is far more dynamic, it is a far more productive economy. So this is the challenge here. This part of this exercise has to be put in the same basket along with . . . we are talking about the need, more broadly (as most Members have been speaking), to tackle one of the most vexatious realities that confront Bermudians, particularly those of little means. And that is the cost of living. The cost of living in Bermuda . . . I remember when we were dealing with three little ways, Mr. Speaker. I remember when we were seeing study after study which had Bermuda as having the highest cost of living in the world. And I used to joke, and I am sure I did it on the floor of the House of Assembly, and I will do it on this virtual floor, translation . . . the highest cost of living in the known universe. So, getting back to public policies, this is a key part of it. The living wage is an other one. Major tax reform, major efforts on the racial equity front, along with the usual diversification of the economy more broadly, an economy that is going to be able to provide jobs, not just for professional white- collar workers and good paying jobs, but also for non - college educated Bermudians who deserve to be able to live a decent life in their own country. We have right now Bermudians living lives of quiet desperation. It did not just start with this crisis. This crisis has just amplified it, a ccelerated it; it has made it more acute. And I would contend, in terms of the economic pandemic, that we are not even in the middle of this part of it. Earlier I talked of the great job that Bermudians have done so far in combatting that which spawned the economy pandemic, which we know as COVID -19, the viral pandemic. As I said, Bermudians are living lives of quiet desperation. And those who are most vulnerable, Mr. Speaker, are our elderly especially. I had an opportunity to have a great conversation. I had seen this particular woman . . . she is 76 years old, she is a fi xture, you know, one of those Bermudian women, a black woman who has seen it all, has toiled honestly all her life. She reached out to me the other day. She takes in, at 76, on average t hrough her pension, about $1,000 per month. Some months , a little less ; some months a little more. But mostly a little less. Now, the last month, I understand, she got $961 in total to live on for that month. Her rent is $950 per month. And so, we have of ten heard over the last few years about seniors having to make that choice between medication that they needed and rent, between medication and other legitimate needs. So let us put a face to this and why the Government is def initely doing the right thing. And I am not going to mince words here; I have got to be honest to myself along with others. We needed to be ahead of the curve on this because it was evident that, when we won the election, this was necessary and we still have not put in place the mechanisms to make it happen. I will get back to the story about this lady in a second, but I want to just quickly say that I am happy that Derrick Burgess is now going to be leading this effort with his vast experience in terms of labour neg otiations dealing wi th major employers around Berm uda and, frankly, his earned reputation as a fighter, I might say. And I mean that in a healthy way because of what he is going to be fighting for. He is the right man for this job. But I keep thinking about that lady, Mr. Speaker. At $950 per month in rent she had a husband who was a government worker, she is getting medical support via DEHI now, and that is roughly around $370 a month. And the thing about it is there are hundreds of Bermudians in that category. There are probably hundreds alone in the category of being seniors who are 65 and over. And despite the fact that 4240 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly we may see a decline, as the Premier’s brief indicated, in terms of inflation, it is cold comfort for many of these people, Mr. Speaker. Cold comfort. The impetus for this is to control, or to create a set of incentives and disincentives, creating that balance to make vendors, whether it is in the grocery sector or others, to think twice before going down the road of price gouging. Let us not tar everybody with the same brush, but we know it does happen in Bermuda. And so, this direction in terms of collecting data so that we can determine the comparative pricing that is going on, will allow us, or the Government, to determine whether price gouging is going on, whether there are uncompetitive practices afoot, which places the Bermuda consumer —and particularly my 76- yearold pensioner —at a major disadvantage. Mr. Speaker, if we are not legislating for the most vulnerable of us, then we should not call ourselves legislators. We should not call ourselves persons who are fighting for Bermudians, particularly those Bermudians, as I have indicated, who are very vulnerable economically. One of the things I said in my last column that was featured in the daily news paper was that these types of crises always produce a humanitarian one in its wake. We see the daily headlines from third sector players who have been doing a yeoman job over the last six months or so since we went into this crisis mode. But let us not kid ourselves, that sector has been straining mightily for the last few years. This cr isis only amplifies and accelerates the inordinate de-mand for the services they provide because of the growing economic vulnerability of Bermudians. Mr. Speaker, I am not going to go on beyond this. I only will say this in closing: We need to understand that we need to brace ourselves for the next few months. We know there was no tourism to speak of over the last two and a half months. Growing numbers of Bermudians . . . the reality of Bermuda is disproportionately those wage earners in hospitality are black Bermudians. Those Bermudians who in the sector are going to find themselves by October . . . even going back to July, August, September, October, going into the fifth, si xth, seventh, and eighth month without vi able income coming in. And I know we want to focus on the businesses as well, and we should. The emplo yers are needed to provide jobs. But let us not forget about these people, many of whom have not been earning l iveable wages, who have been earning poverty -level wages. Let us not forget about our seniors. This humanitarian crisis is going to be the biggest challenge that we have faced in decades and it is going to test our social cohesion in ways that we cannot im agine. So, I wish, as an unenviable task that the Deputy Speaker, Mr. Burgess has . . . but, like I said, I think he is the man for the job. And certainly we need someone like him taking the lead on something like this at this time more than ever. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Mr. Commissiong. Does any other Member wish to speak to this? No other Member? Mr. Premier, would you like to—
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMr. Swan, yes, you can make your contribution.
Mr. Hubert (Kim) SwanYes, Mr. Speaker, ever so briefly, I would like to pick up where the last Member left off by echoing the fact that Deputy Speaker Burgess is eminently qualified and well positioned to head up this Commission. I believe I heard the Opposition Leader refer to Members getting a better …
Yes, Mr. Speaker, ever so briefly, I would like to pick up where the last Member left off by echoing the fact that Deputy Speaker Burgess is eminently qualified and well positioned to head up this Commission. I believe I heard the Opposition Leader refer to Members getting a better understanding. But I think that amongst our Members, the Member heading up this Commission has as well of an understanding of the plight of persons who are feeling the brunt of a high cost of living in Bermuda as most. Notwithstanding there are those who are involved in the comme rcial side of what we are talking about, no one can make a dollar unless there are people prepared to spend it. And therein lies the problem that confronts us in our country. We have a lifestyle change to make. And I certainly believe, Mr. Speaker, that that lifestyle change that is required of us is being prodded by forces well outside of our making. The Good Lord that we believe in, COVID -19, and all that it has done that is bad, have provided opportunities that we must look at as we move forward. And the Premier has always stated that reduction of health care, energy costs, cost of housing and cost of food are matters of great concern for our Government. I remember, Mr. Speaker, it was not that long ago where the old adage that one week’s wage took care of one month’s rent. And the Honourable Member Michael Scott from constituency 36 well put the fact that persons are looking elsewhere because the ability to enjoy one’s quality of life in Bermuda has been diminished by the great gulf that exists —gulf, G - U-L-F that exists —between those who are able to earn and those who are earning barely to make ends meet. And you can only see it in Bermuda. You want to see it? Just go and drive along the areas that offer
Bermuda House of Assembly alfresco dining and you do not see Bermuda partic ipating in the benefits that are provided in Bermuda, a country that has one of the highest cost s of living in the world. And yet, a country that boasts itself as be-ing amongst the high echelons in the economic world. And so, we, the Government, have a very difficult task when you add all these things in their sum total up. I believe Members have touched on it, I believe the Honourable Member Mr. Simons touched on it ever so briefly, and correctly, there are some staple items that we need to look at irrespective of any legi slative matters, that should be in the spirit of shared sacrifice, something t hat persons who are in business should be prepared to take on board. First and for emost, rather than giving away sodas, we should be giving away water. Rather than giving away sweet drinks, which have a promotional budget —and I know a little bit about that , I worked in marketing, and those budgets come from overseas. But rather than giving away those, let us give to our children now water. Let them enjoy the sweet taste of water. As simple as it is, it would go a mile towards changing the mind- set of this c ountry and swinging the pendulum back in favour of a more healthy lifestyle. I declare my interest. I need to practice what I preach. So, as my Uncle Hermon used to say when he played with his famous pastor, Do as I say and not as I’m doing at the present . I say that tongue- in-cheek because water is something in this world that no one can do without, but yet it has become a commodity. And do you know what COVID -19 has taught me, Mr. Speaker? That like all the world now has to change its lifestyle to get u sed to wearing a mask because of the particles in the air, I am sure there are entrepreneurs out there and persons in that realm in the world looking to see, Boy, when will the day come when I can sell air just like I sell water? We can start doing right b y our people if we can collectively say that a disproportionate percentage of a country like Bermuda has more diabetics per capita, more people needing to go to dialysis, more people needing the services —the free services —of Pr oject Action, which I want to celebrate as well as those out there in the charity world that have very low sal aries and give most of what it gets back into providing the services to be able to take people in great num-bers to dialysis, amputations disproportionate with one of the highest, probably, per capita of amputations in the world. Why? Because of the type of marketing that sees an opportunity for people’s tastes. What we have to do is, rather tell somebody . . . how do we change the heart of people to say, Listen, maybe you need to forego selling as much of those sweetie drinks and lovely sodas —that obviously help the bottom line greatly —and see how we can participate in a campaign that switches people onto water. When you want to change the mind- set of the way a person or persons think, you have got to take it in little bits at a time. And when we look at that for what it is worth, then a person not switched on to sweets can then get the taste of beautiful vegetables and the better fruits. And when that happens, persons might be caused to start saying Well , you know what, those beans can grow in the backyard, or that pumpkin can be in abundance in different communities. And in our country, we have got some mind- set changes to make, some lifestyle changes to make. And so, while I am certainly wanting to conclude as I started, the Deputy Speaker, the former head of the largest union in Bermuda coming out of the hotel industry repr esenting thousands of Bermudians in this country dating back decades, understands —he well understands. So I take great exception when I hear it being suggested that persons are understanding better. And that is the fundamental problem that we have in this country. And I say that in all honesty b ecause, you know, we live in a capitalistic society and I embrac e that. But there are portions of capitalism that run contrary to what it takes to have a good quality of life for the wider segment of society. And there are communities in different areas of the world that enjoy the highest quality of life. Their ratings are up there amongst the highest of those that enjoy the highest quality of life. And we are not on that list, by the way. So, when a person in Bermuda can hope that they get employed and they get a good enough job so that they can hire a mortgage, that w hen the bottom falls out in a recession caused by business people who then figure out how to save their own necks and those persons then find themselves, all that they have, swallowed up . . . that is the mind -set that we are up against as the Government t ries to do all it can to bring about a more fair and equitable society. So, during this COVID -19 period I have seen some very kind- hearted gestures from some business people and from some persons with means and from some persons who rely on everyday mom and pop and Mr. and Mrs. Bermuda for their survival and for their business to thrive. And I applaud that. But like the hurricane, we must take this type of kind spiritedness and ask ourselves how we can spread this well beyond COVID -19. How can we make water 30 cents for a small bottle so that a thirsty person would have no impedi-ment to go and buy water? How can we do that? Why should we do that? Who would even think about doing that? We would do it because it would be something that would help this country change for the next generation to help reverse the level of persons that get diabetes in this country and contribute to the high cost of our health care. We would do it because water is an essential item. We would do it because that one step would help change the mindset of the people who can become more discerning in the type of choices they make when they spend. And we would do it because it is the right thing to do and we need to do more things because they are the right thing to do, Mr. Speaker. 4242 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly When one week’s wage equalled one month’s rent a family could plan for the future. Ask yourself now what that is. It is a far cry from that. And too many people, particularly our seniors, are having to make the choice between their medication and their food. And then the foods are not the foods that they really require, so it is only just looking at whether they can get a little tuna or something like that. What can I make to get me through ? So, with that, Mr. Speaker, I want to say thank you. Thank you, Mr. Speak er.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerOkay, you are coming through a little clearer.
Mr. Jamahl S. SimmonsOkay, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just so I can speak briefly on this. I think that for those of us who have heard this debat e about the cost of living and the cost of food in Bermuda going back to the 1980s, this is a journey of a thousand …
Okay, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just so I can speak briefly on this. I think that for those of us who have heard this debat e about the cost of living and the cost of food in Bermuda going back to the 1980s, this is a journey of a thousand steps. And this is just a first step. But I think that beyond this, and this is one of the things I am excited about working with this Gover nment on, is that this first step we recognise is not enough. B ecause we have seen in a world . . . and our Premier has spoken of this publicly on several occasions, where he has met with grocers and they said that they could drop their prices by so much. But because of the relationships that they have with other businesses they do not want to suspend, they could not adjust their prices. And what we have to really look at as a country is no longer clinging to the things that no longer work, no longer clingi ng to the things that do not benefit anybody beyond ourselves. This is critical. Mr. Speaker, we have heard a great deal of defence and excuses for the cost of prices. And these have been the same defences and excuses we have been hearing since the 1980s . And I would go back to in the 1980s when they were talking about retail as well and there was talk about overhead, import and all of that stuff. And what happened is that the industry, if you look today, developed a poor reputation. And d eserved or not, the innocent suffered with the guilty. They had deserved and developed a reputation for high prices, they developed a reputation for bad service, they developed a reputation for simply not caring. Now, if you flash forward ahead, if you looked when the pandemic hit, there has always been an undercurrent of sort of dissatisfaction with the retail sector. But as people developed more choices and began to find options, they went elsewhere. And Mr. Speaker, 10, 15, 20 years from now when technology and the Internet provide options, if there is not an adjus tment made by everyone, we will be talking about the grocery sector dying because people are bringing in their food from elsewhere because they can get it better from elsewhere. And so, we have to really look at this colle ctively in terms of not just maintaining what is, and not just thinking about how to work with what is, but we have to think about the options available outside of what is. We got to this place by clinging to what has always been, by trying to make sure the same people made the same amount of profit as they have always made, by making sure that we do not take on these forces that have just been there immutable, almost in the Bermudian context, like opt ional war . But there comes a time when yo u have to be able to say we are in this together or we are not. And you have to start looking outside of the box, outside of the status quo, and begin looking at options that benefit our people. I am very pleased with the appointment of the Deputy Speaker in this role because he gets it. And I think that for those of us who have lived it, those of us who have constituents who have lived it, those of us whose family have lived it, are looking forward to a strong advocate, a powerful advocate, and real change in this space. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, MP Junior Minister Si mmons. Does any other Member wish to speak? Bermuda House of Assembly Ms. Susan E. Jackson: Mr. Speaker, I have a few words I would like to say.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerOkay. Opposition Whip Ms. Jackson, you have the floor.
Ms. Susan E. JacksonThank you, Mr. Speaker. I just am trying to put this debate into some form of context. And I certainly remember when the present Government first came into power and there was much talk . . . you know, everybod y was very much into technology and there was lots …
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just am trying to put this debate into some form of context. And I certainly remember when the present Government first came into power and there was much talk . . . you know, everybod y was very much into technology and there was lots of talk about how technology was going to help and how we were going to combat the cost of living in Bermuda. At the time, the idea of having this sort of electronic invent ory of prices of essential goods i n Bermuda sounded like a great idea and certainly very progressive. And so that is fine. But a couple of years now has passed and there have been quite a few things that have hap-pened around the cost of living. And, you know, I cer-tainly want to acknowledge COVID -19 and how that has impacted our economy. But putting that aside for a second, over the last couple of years we, as people living and feeding ourselves and caring for ourselves in Bermuda have faced a number of increases in the cost of living. And a good number of them have come from taxes. I mean, everybody is being taxed. And I think of the sugar tax in particular. You know, food has been the heavy burden that people in Bermuda have to carry on their shou lders because that is the one place where we can find ways, as a Government, put taxes on items. And ev ery single person in Bermuda at some point is going to pay into it. And whether that is things like the sugar tax, which is impacting us on the grocer’s shelf, or whether that is the customs dut ies that are placed on imported goods and a number of other items that we have had to sort of bear the brunt of increased costs, and I think about how our health insurance has i ncreased significantly over the years. And I was just taking a look at the util ity bill—my BELCO bill. And I am paying as much to government in tax —and this is not including fuel adjustment, this is not including faci lity charges —but the government tax is 50 per cent of my bill. So, you know, I do not see how this electronic inventory of prices on the basic essentials is going to really impact how we are going to tackle the cost of living in Bermuda. And until I kind of can feel a way forward, you know, I am personally not feeling conf ident. I can remember, too, in the early days wh en cost of living was a big part of the discussion with this present Government, and you know there were sort of these rumours going around that well, maybe this cost of living electronic app is a way in which Government can take a look at the prices that are around Bermuda and then Government could open up their own sort of co-op, which would be the second time around. We had a co- op back in the days when I was a young person. I can remember going to the co- op, but unfortunately it did not last.
Ms. Susan E. JacksonI am sorry. Thank you, Member. And maybe the i dea of Government, now, introduce or start up some form of co- op or, you know, some way, some warehouse inventory kind of situ ation where Government would be able to sell items to the general public at a reduced …
I am sorry. Thank you, Member. And maybe the i dea of Government, now, introduce or start up some form of co- op or, you know, some way, some warehouse inventory kind of situ ation where Government would be able to sell items to the general public at a reduced rate, that that would help with the cost of living. But I have not really heard any more about that. I do not know whether that would be a terrible idea or not. But all I am finding is that having an electronic inventory of a comparison of prices on essential items is going to give any real positi ve impact to the person who is going to buy food and has to eat food on a regular basis. And I just feel as though this is a Band- Aid on a much bigger, bigger, bigger, deeper wound that we need to heal. And I would really like the Government to come up wi th some strategies on how that can happen. And I know that it is a challenge, as one of the previous Members has stated. I mean this has been a challenge for . . . I know, certainly, the PLP Government has been working on or speaking to the cost of living for pretty much the past 20 years or so, if not longer. And so, I understand that there is a cha llenge involved. But at the same time, to have something that is actually going to give some positive impact to the people who are in particular suffering right now during this COVID -19 landscape and the economic crisis that we are in, that would really be able to give some form of relief in the purchase and the costs of goods, be4244 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly cause I am just not convinced that the prices that we are paying for goods necessar ily are completely a product of the source of, let us say, the retailer. I think that there are a number of people who are playing in that field and, as I mentioned before, Mr. Speaker, I feel as though every human being in Bermuda and every pet and everyb ody else that has to eat food is carrying the brunt of this burden on each and every one of our shoulders. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member. Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak? There are none. Mr. Premier, would you like to do your wrapup on this and take us into Committee? Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, and I am appreciative of —my apologies, my camera …
Thank you, Honourable Member. Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak? There are none. Mr. Premier, would you like to do your wrapup on this and take us into Committee? Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, and I am appreciative of —my apologies, my camera was not up. I am appreciative of these partic ular matters and I am actually suppos ed to be interviewed —
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYes, adjust your camera. Hon. E. David Burt: —to talk about this.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYou have got too wide a screen that time. Hon. E. David Burt: No problem. But I would say, Mr. Speaker, I am grateful for the comments w hich came from Honourable Members, as there were a number of them, and some of them touched on other things. So, I …
You have got too wide a screen that time. Hon. E. David Burt: No problem. But I would say, Mr. Speaker, I am grateful for the comments w hich came from Honourable Members, as there were a number of them, and some of them touched on other things. So, I am happy, num-ber one, for that support of Members of the Opposition on this particular Bill. It is a minor Bill, but I think that it can lead to a lot of things going forward. What I would also say, Mr. Speaker, is that I heard certain comments about other things which may need to be included in the Bill and I think it is i mportant that we recognise that though we started on this about being f or grocery stores, the law itself was written wide enough so that the Minister can specify the types of businesses that can be included. So, whether it be comparing the price of gas stations or otherwise, those things are actually able to happen under the law. And it is important to know that right now those type of fuel prices . . . there is a maximum fuel price which is set. But there may be some space for competition in those particular markets as well.
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Point of order.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerPoint of order? Will you yield for a point of order? Hon. E. David Burt: Yes. The Speaker: Your point of order? POINT OF ORDER [Misleading] Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Yes, the Premier is inadvertently misleading the House and the public. When I spok e to the pricing of fuel, …
Point of order? Will you yield for a point of order? Hon. E. David Burt: Yes. The Speaker: Your point of order?
POINT OF ORDER [Misleading]
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Yes, the Premier is inadvertently misleading the House and the public. When I spok e to the pricing of fuel, I was talking about the tax that Government puts on the fuel, not the retail end at gas stations.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Member. Premier? Hon. E. David Burt: Mr. Speaker, the price of the goods is whatever the price of the goods is, and we know that there are many facets to that. But I am hap-py to get onto the taxes in fuel in a little bit, because I …
Thank you, Member. Premier? Hon. E. David Burt: Mr. Speaker, the price of the goods is whatever the price of the goods is, and we know that there are many facets to that. But I am hap-py to get onto the taxes in fuel in a little bit, because I thought that it was quite remarkable that there were a number of Members from the opposite side who mentioned that particular poi nt and purpose. So, I will say two things, Mr. Speaker. Number one, I would say that fuel taxes doubled under the previous administration. And we recognise and accept that we have had a chance to lower them, but we also recognise and accept that we must make sure that we have revenue. But I think it is pretty rich for people to [be] complaining about the amount of taxes on fuel when those persons are the ones who are responsible for increasing these fuel taxes so significantly under their particular watch, Mr. Speaker. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Mr. Speaker. Hon. E. David Burt: I think that there is certainly space for adjustment, and that is a different issue. But I am no longer Minister of Finance so I am not going to get into that.
Hon. L. Craig Cannon ier: Point of order, Mr. Speaker.
Hon. E. David Burt: —but I am —
The SpeakerThe SpeakerPremier, there is another point of order and we ask you to yield for it. Hon. E. David Burt: Ah—
The SpeakerThe SpeakerA point of order from the Opposition Leader. POINT OF ORDER Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: I appreciate that, Mr. Speaker. The Honourable Member is referring to fuel increased prices under an OBA Government. If he is Bermuda House of Assembly going to go that route, he needs to speak to …
A point of order from the Opposition Leader.
POINT OF ORDER
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: I appreciate that, Mr. Speaker. The Honourable Member is referring to fuel increased prices under an OBA Government. If he is
Bermuda House of Assembly going to go that route, he needs to speak to the fuel increased prices — Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: What is your point of order? Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: —from 1998 through —
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMember, Member. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: —through [ INAUDIBLE] .
The SpeakerThe SpeakerWhat is your point of order, Opposition Leader? Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: How many times did the y increase fuel over 15 years?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: No, is he saying that the Premier is misleading the House?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerPremier? Hon. E. David Burt: Mr. Speaker —
The SpeakerThe SpeakerPremier? Hon. E. David Burt: Mr. Speaker, allow me to say one thing and the one thing is that this Government has not increased the prices of taxes on fuel. We have not. And I have been inside of the Cabinet Office for just short of three years and we …
Premier? Hon. E. David Burt: Mr. Speaker, allow me to say one thing and the one thing is that this Government has not increased the prices of taxes on fuel. We have not. And I have been inside of the Cabinet Office for just short of three years and we have not increased the price on fuel, Mr. Speaker. So, going forward on that particular topic, I think that on the overall method here, I am happy that there is broad support from Members across the aisle on this. I think that one of the things which I want to make sure is clear is that we have changed tack. So, I want there to be entrepreneurs that may be willing to use this type of data that the Government is going to make available to build their own type of applications, which can help to make sure that we address various costs of living and can help. Because one of the things which price comparisons will allow is they allow shoppers to go ahead and shop in a more effective basis. And just as I said, this is public information, Mr. Speaker, but it is not . . . you cannot expect an individual to com pare what they have in so many different places in so many different stores. So, I think this is going to be a step in the right direction. I appreciate the comments of Honourable Members. I am happy that, though there is a little bit of jostling on thes e particular issues, that the bipart isan support for this still prevails. And I look forward to working, I would say, with the Deputy Speaker as the head of the Cost of Living Commission as I have r esponsibility for Government IT in advancing this par-ticular issue. And I think it is going to be a very exci ting initiative. And on that, Mr. Speaker, it is one of many open data initiatives that the Government of Bermuda has. So, in looking at other data that can be exposed by the Government of Bermuda, such as address i nformation and other types of information which we use to build rich and powerful apps, that is certainly stuff that the e- Commerce Advisory Board has given opi nions on. And I think, Mr. Speaker, that I might actually table that report in this H onourable House so we can debate it, because I think it is important that we understand what data means, how data can be used, and to raise the consciousness of the country on how access to data, access to information from various particular sources, can actually lead to better lives and better price competition, Mr. Speaker. Finally, Mr. Speaker, I will say that it is i mportant to note, as I said, that this has been for gr ocery stores, but it might be something that can be used for other issues. We are not going to force it on other places, but we would be happy for persons , either Cost of Living Commission or Honourable Members who maybe want to table a motion in this House at a future point in time, to say that we think that this is something that should be added to the data which the Government of Bermuda collects, and we would make that available, Mr. Speaker. So, in saying all of those things, I move that the Bill be now committed.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Mr. Premier. Would you like to move us into Committee now? Hon. E. David Burt: Please, Mr. Speaker. [Pause]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerPremier, did you move the motion to take us into Committee? Hon. E. David Burt: I did, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I said that I move that the Bill be now committed. The Spe aker: Oh, okay. It did not come through here. We were just waiting for that. Hon. …
The SpeakerThe SpeakerI will now turn the meeting over to the Deputy Speaker. Deputy Speaker, your microphone is now on. House in Committee at 3:3 9 pm [Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr., Chair man] 4246 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly COMMITTEE ON BILL COST OF LIVING COMMISSION …
The ChairmanChairmanHonourable Members, we are now in Committee of the whole [House] for further consider ation of the Bill entitled Cost of Living Commission Amendment Act 2020 . Mr. Premier, you have the floor. Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I move clauses 1 through …
The ChairmanChairmanContinue. Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, clause 1 provides the citation for the Bill. Clause 2 amends the principal Act in section 1 to provide that “Minister” means the Minister respo nsible for consumer affairs. The section is further amended to insert the following definitions: …
Continue.
Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, clause 1 provides the citation for the Bill. Clause 2 amends the principal Act in section 1 to provide that “Minister” means the Minister respo nsible for consumer affairs. The section is further amended to insert the following definitions: “essential commodity,” “price” and “business undertaking.” Clause 3 amends the principal Act in sections 2(2)(a) and 6(1)(b) to delete “Ministry of Finance” and substitute “Department of Cons umer Affairs.” And this is in regard to representation on the Commission. Clause 4 amends the principal Act to insert Part IIIA to require business undertakings that sell essential commodities to use electronic means to furnish to the Commission information on the prices of essential commodities they sell to enable the Commission to efficiently and accurately inform members of the public of current prices of essential commodities sold by the various business undertakings. Clause 5 provides for the Minister to bring the Act into operation by notice published in the Gazette.
The ChairmanChairmanThank you, Premier. Are there any further speakers? Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Yes, Mr. Chai rman.
The ChairmanChairmanThe Chair recognises the Honourable Member Pat Gordon -Pamplin. You have the floor. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, just a couple of very brief questions that I have. And that is on page . . . let me just go back and make sure …
The Chair recognises the Honourable Member Pat Gordon -Pamplin. You have the floor. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, just a couple of very brief questions that I have. And that is on page . . . let me just go back and make sure I have the right page here . . . clause 2(b) . . . I am trying to work between two different mediums here, so if you can just give me a second. Sorry, this is on page 2 of the Bill, [clause 4] under “Part IIIA Price Information on Essential Com-modi ties”, which refers to [section] 10A and now (3) which says: “The Commission shall, for the purposes of this Part and with the approval of the Minister, develop or employ such electronic real -time indicators as it may determine as necessary to enable it to—(a) o btain information on the prices of essential commodities from business undertakings; and (b) inform members of the public of the current prices. . .” Now, under the next clause down, which says . . . I mean that says on a real -time basis we will be able to get data, under [section] 10B [subsect ion] (2)(d) it indicates that “the time- frame within which the information is to remain valid; and (e) the time- frame within which the information is to be furnished to the Commission.” I get the time -frame in which the information is to be furnished, but I am not sure about how effectiv ely we can monitor the time- frame in which the information is to remain—
The ChairmanChairmanWhat is your question, Member? Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: I am just saying . . . I am asking how effective . . . under [section] 10B(2)(e) . . . my question is, how can we monitor and remain, or be satisfied that what is referred to under 10A …
What is your question, Member?
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: I am just saying . . . I am asking how effective . . . under [section] 10B(2)(e) . . . my question is, how can we monitor and remain, or be satisfied that what is referred to under 10A as being timely and literally on real time, how can we get to [section] 10B(2)(d) and say the time- frame in which the information is to remai n valid, given, Mr. Chairman, the fact that prices, in some instances, as we mentioned in the debate, are completely fluid? So, I am just wondering how we are planning on managing that 10B(2)(d) in terms of which it —
The ChairmanChairmanAny further questions? Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: That remains for the moment.
The ChairmanChairmanMr. Premier, do you want to respond to that? [Pause]
The ChairmanChairmanPremier? Hon. E. David Burt: I was on mute. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I appreciate the questi on which the Honourable Member asked, but I think what is i mportant to recognise is that these things, though broadly written, were intended on the narrow instance of grocery stores. …
Premier?
Hon. E. David Burt: I was on mute. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I appreciate the questi on which the Honourable Member asked, but I think what is i mportant to recognise is that these things, though broadly written, were intended on the narrow instance of grocery stores. But they can be expanded into other things. On the particular matter of the time- frame in which the information is to remain valid, I think that can be interpreted as the . . . I would say frequency of the submission of that particular information.
Bermuda House of Assembly So, for instance, as we were explaining with the grocery stores, as the main t hree grocers use the same electronic interface we are talking about having an electronic interface which can upload prices, ma ybe once a day, sometimes even twice a day, four times a day. I do not know if you want to do that, maybe it is once a week, once every two days, once every three days. So, I would say that this is the way that this should be interpreted, the amount of time that should be made and the interval in which that information should be submitted to the Commission.
The ChairmanChairmanAre there any further speakers? Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: No, I accept that explanation. Hon. Michael J. Scott: Mr. Chairman, Michael Scott.
The ChairmanChairmanYes, continue. Hon. Michael J. Scott: Thanks, Mr. Chairman. I’m looking under clause 4, the requir ement of business undertakings to provide and use electronic means. Mr. Premier, what kind of platform will be deployed by the Government to receive the data, to ex-change the data and to receive the …
Yes, continue.
Hon. Michael J. Scott: Thanks, Mr. Chairman. I’m looking under clause 4, the requir ement of business undertakings to provide and use electronic means. Mr. Premier, what kind of platform will be deployed by the Government to receive the data, to ex-change the data and to receive the data from the food stores so that the Government monitors it?
Hon. E. David Burt: At the risk of the persons who are listening online to laugh at my outdated technological expertise (as I am not entirely certain what the latest methods are), what I would say is it will certainly be through the APIs which exist for . . . perhaps the NCR system which is used at the moment by the m ajor grocers here. But that information will likely be sent via a web service so that it can be just transmitted over the Internet very quickly, simply and easily. So, it is no different than, for instance, the i nsurance companies who transfer information to the Transport Control Department when their system relicenses a vehicle and it basically says this has been re-licensed. It can be set up insofar as they transfer the 24 staple goods at once, or it could be whatever the scope in which the Commission asks that it be done. It could be on a daily basis, or maybe it can be specified that they do it when the price changes as well, which is something that could also be triggered inside of these particular systems. But it will be communicated electronically and would not be something that som eone will have to actually manually do. Once the programme is written, it will be able to be replicated and that information will be routed seamlessly and that data will just continue to exist and continue to be sent to a data repository. And it is up to the Government to figure out how that information is used. In the first instance, and as is required by law, the Government will have to find a way to publish it. But I do not believe in totality that the Government publishing that information is probably the best, and so the Government shall publish the information, it is required to, but we should also make that data avail able for public persons who may want to build other types of applications, price comparisons, other things on top of it. And I think that is the important part of making sure that we unleash the entrepreneurial spirit inside the country when it comes to database applic ations.
Hon. Micha el J. Scott: Thanks, Mr. Premier.
The ChairmanChairmanAny further speakers? Hon. Michael J. Scott: Yes, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, you will judge whether this follow-up is within clause 4. So, clause 4 is going to then effectively monitor pricing movements, the act over which you will have now the management and de-ployment. Part II of the principal …
Any further speakers?
Hon. Michael J. Scott: Yes, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, you will judge whether this follow-up is within clause 4. So, clause 4 is going to then effectively monitor pricing movements, the act over which you will have now the management and de-ployment. Part II of the principal Act it allows us actually to stop people operating stores to charge an i ncreased price. So, what —
The ChairmanChairmanWhat is your question? Hon. Michael J. Scott: So, once the electronic pricing collection indicates a distortion in price, will clause 4 also be used to help enforce Part II of the Act, which is to say to people . . . Operators , your prices are di storted and …
What is your question?
Hon. Michael J. Scott: So, once the electronic pricing collection indicates a distortion in price, will clause 4 also be used to help enforce Part II of the Act, which is to say to people . . . Operators , your prices are di storted and your increases are noted, and you are not allowed to do it ?
The ChairmanChairmanMr. Premier, do you want to respond to that? Hon. E. David Burt: The only response which I can give, Mr. Chairman, is the fact that the information collected by the Price Control Commission . . . I am sorry, the Cost of Living Commission, if the Cost of Living …
Mr. Premier, do you want to respond to that?
Hon. E. David Burt: The only response which I can give, Mr. Chairman, is the fact that the information collected by the Price Control Commission . . . I am sorry, the Cost of Living Commission, if the Cost of Living Commission fees that they need to take action, that will be up to the Chairman and the members of the Cost of Living Commission.
The ChairmanChairmanAny further speakers? Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Yes, I just had one f urther point that I needed a little clarity on for the edification of the public, if I may, Mr. Chairman.
The ChairmanChairmanContinue. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you. And that is in clause 4 in respect of [section] 10A, when it speaks to the Commi ssion for the purpose of efficient4248 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly ly and accurately informing the public of the current …
Continue.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you. And that is in clause 4 in respect of [section] 10A, when it speaks to the Commi ssion for the purpose of efficient4248 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly ly and accurately informing the public of the current prices of essential commodities. The Premier had mentioned in his initial presentation that there were 24 basic items that are going to be tracked herein and, presumably, this a ffords or obviously this gives us cause, or gives us the ability to expand. But my question is, Do we foresee at the moment something that will cause us to go outside of those 24? Is it going to be driven . . . anything that it is included, is it going to be driven by demand for i nformation or is it going . . . how will that be determined?
Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you for the question. Sorry, Mr. Chairman, may I speak?
The ChairmanChairmanYes, go ahead. Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you for the question. That would be the responsibility of the Cost of Living Commission to determine those particular aspects. So, in the report which they have given they had set out on an initial basket of 24 goods. But I think …
Yes, go ahead. Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you for the question. That would be the responsibility of the Cost of Living Commission to determine those particular aspects. So, in the report which they have given they had set out on an initial basket of 24 goods. But I think what is i mportant to note, especially when we are talking about, particularly from a grocery store perspective, once these things are set up it will probably be very pai nless to expand the list of things. And we are probably talking about, you know, one programmer taking one minute to send off an SKU to the various grocery stores and say we want to add this SKU to the thing which was submitted. So, it is not going to be that difficult of a pr ocess. And that is the reason why there was a lot of back and forth about how we are going to do this, how we are going to make sure we have got this set up. And so the easiest way was that, instead of asking the grocers to pay for it and all the rest, it is something the Government would consider as a public good, a public service. So go ahead, make that investment, reco gnising they are all using these concurrent systems . . . sorry, they are all using the same system so that i nformation will be able to be transferred. So, it will be up to the Cost of Living Commi ssion to expand that list, but I do not believe it w ill be a very difficult thing in which to expand. I think what is also important to note is that the list itself has basic goods. So, you know, it talks about cleaning items and basic food groups, et cetera. But the thing is that when you get into groceries, of course, you know you are going to have different si zes. So you have to compare apples to apples versus apples to oranges. So, all of those things will have to be specified. I think that the 24 is a good start because with 24 basic goods there may be lots of other different sizes, which you can understand. So, for instance, bleach, there might be 20 types of bleach versus just one.
The ChairmanChairmanAny further speakers? Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: I am satisfied, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. The Cha irman: Thank you, Ms. Gordon- Pamplin. No further speakers? Do you want to move that clauses 1 through 5 be approved? Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I move …
The ChairmanChairmanIt has been moved that clauses 1 through 5 be approved. Are there any objections to that? There appear to be none. Approved. [Motion carried: Clauses 1 through 5 passed.] Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you very much. Mr. Chairman, I move that the preamble be approved.
The ChairmanChairmanIt has been moved that the preamble be approved. Are there any objections to that? There appear to be none. Approved. Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that the Bill be reported to the House as printed.
The ChairmanChairmanIt has been moved that the Bill be reported to the House as printed. Are there any objections to that? There appear to be none. The Bill will be r eported to the House as printed. Thank you all. [Motion carried: The Cost of Living Commission Amendment Act 2020 was …
It has been moved that the Bill be reported to the House as printed. Are there any objections to that? There appear to be none. The Bill will be r eported to the House as printed. Thank you all.
[Motion carried: The Cost of Living Commission Amendment Act 2020 was considered by a Commi ttee of the whole House and passed without amendment.]
House resumed at 3:55 pm [Hon. Dennis P. Lister, Jr., Speaker, in the Chair]
REPORT OF COMMITTEE
COST OF LIVING COMMISSION AMENDMENT ACT 2020
Bermuda House of Assembly The Speaker: Good aftern oon, Members. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Deputy Speaker. Members, are there any objections to the Cost of Living Commission Amendment Act 2020 being reported to the House as printed? There are none. The Bill has been reported to the House as printed. That now brings us to a close of that matter and moves us on to the second Order of the Day, which is the second reading the Public Health Amendment Act (No. 2) 2020 in the name of the Mi nister of Health. Minister Wilson, would you like to present your matter ? Minister Wilson?
[Pause] Hon. Kim N. Wilson: I am sorry, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I move that the Bill entitled the Public Health Amendment (No. 2) Act 2020 be now read the second time.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAny objections? No objections. Continue, Minis ter. BILL SECOND READING PUBLIC HEALTH AMENDMENT (NO. 2) ACT 2020 Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to invite this Honourable House to consider the Bill entitled Public Health Amendment (No. 2) Act 2020. This Bill would …
Any objections? No objections. Continue, Minis ter.
BILL
SECOND READING
PUBLIC HEALTH AMENDMENT (NO. 2) ACT 2020 Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to invite this Honourable House to consider the Bill entitled Public Health Amendment (No. 2) Act 2020. This Bill would amend the Public Health Act 1949 to permit the Governor, where the Minister r esponsible for Health, after consulting the Chief Medical Officer, has determined that a communicable di sease of the first or second category poses a severe threat to public health in Bermuda to make regulations that provide for the prevention, control, or suppression of the communicable disease. Such regulations may include restrictions on movement and a curfew. Mr. Speaker, for the information of Honour able Members and the public, these categories of communicable diseases are set out in Part V, Section 66 of the Public Health Act. Communicable diseases of the first category include COVID -19. Communicable diseases of the second category include things like chickenpox, German measles, and influenza. Mr. Speaker, Honourable Members will be aware that as part of the ongoing global pandemic and our local response to it, we have issued closure notices under the Public Health Act 1949, made reg ulations specific to the COVID -19 pandemic, and noted the need to properly mandate public health superv i-sion, active monitoring and isolation as well as enforcement and support of these provisions. Mr. Speaker, Honourable Members and the public will also recall that as part of the wider publ ic health response to the pandemic, firstly, Cabinet had authorised the Premier to invite His Excellency the Governor to impose a curfew under the Summary O ffences Act 1926 and, thereafter, to declare a state of emergency such that he could, thereafter, im pose a 24-hour shelter in place pursuant to the regulations made under the Emergency Powers Act 1963. Those regulations were extended through the 2 of May 2020 by resolution passed by both Houses of the Legisl ature on 17 April 2020. Since that time, further regul ations were made to manage the gradual reopening of Bermuda and will remain in effect through the 30 June 2020. Mr. Speaker, the use of the constitutional power to declare a state of emergency and to apply provisions of the Emergency Powers Act is more sui ted to meeting the challenges of civil unrest in society. Their use in the current pandemic had proven an ine legant means by which to restrict the movement of people and manage the spread of the COVID -19 virus, especially in light of the duration of the limitations applicable to the relevant powers that did not reflect the need for ongoing flexibility based on public health advice and best practice. Therefore, Mr. Speaker, without prejudice to the emergency powers available under the constit ution a nd the Emergency Powers Act 1963, Cabinet was invited to consider amendments to the Public Health Act 1949 to permit the Governor to make nec-essary regulations to address public health situations, such as pandemics. The Bill before the House today creates the necessary regime without the requirement to rely on powers under a state of emergency. Mr. Speaker, I would invite Honourable Members to take note of the tests to be applied for making regulations are similar to that applied in support of the Minister of Health’s authority to make closure orders under this Act. Pursuant to section 88 of the principal Act, Mr. Speaker, the Minister responsible for Health must determine that a communicable disease of the first or second category existed or, in the opinio n of the Chief Medical Officer, that there was an immediate risk of an outbreak of the said disease. Honourable Members will also, no doubt, note that, pursuant to section 172 of the Act, the negative resolution proc edure applies to regulations made under the Act. Mr. Speaker, I can also advise the House that in Committee I shall move an amendment to the Bill adding a new section, subsection 5, to the proposed section 107B so that, for the avoidance of doubt, it specifically provides that “any such provisi on of law” referred to in subsection 4 also includes any prov isions under the Human Rights Act 1981. (And this is in reference to section 30B(1)(a) of the Human Rights Act 1981.) 4250 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly Mr. Speaker, as I commend this Bill to the House for the consideration of Honourable Members, I must observe that in spite of the limitations and less than nimble legislative tools that we have had at our disposal, the Government , the various enforcement agencies and other public service stakeholders have managed well since the declaration of a global pa ndemic in March. The Bill before the House will i mprove our ability to meet the demand of any changes in the Island’s public health situation. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Minister. Minister, am I correct, did you indicate just now that you have an amendment coming? Hon. Kim N. Wilson: That is correct, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerWe should have sight of that so that it can be distributed, and we do not have sight of it . We have not received anything. So, in the course of the next couple of minutes, if you could have it sent to us so that we can have it …
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThat is the only way it can be accepted. If we cannot distribute it, we cannot accept it. Hon. Ki m N. Wilson: All right, I will do that, Mr. Speaker, thank you.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Does any other Member wish to speak? Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Yes, thank you,
Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerMP Gordon- Pamplin, you have the floor. Hon. Patrici a J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, sir. Mr. Speaker, we recognise that the situation that we found ourselves in, and perhaps the lack of the nimble response to this pandemic that has caused us to turn our lives literally on our …
MP Gordon- Pamplin, you have the floor. Hon. Patrici a J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, sir. Mr. Speaker, we recognise that the situation that we found ourselves in, and perhaps the lack of the nimble response to this pandemic that has caused us to turn our lives literally on our heads, that it was, perhaps, not as nimble as it ought to have been or as it could have been. So, we perfectly understand that this particular Bill is allowing a declaration of an emer-gency by the Minister in consultation with the Chief Medical Officer, which will save, perhaps, a couple of steps, can save a couple of minutes but in the process can ultimately save a couple of lives. I think that the one thing that we were all tr ying to grapple with in respect of the condition that we found ourselves in that created the state of emergency was that we had concerns that people felt as though some of their human rights were being taken away. And we recognised and supported the Government in the methodology that they used to achieve the state of emergency, because we had to balance the loss of human rights against the increased safety of our population. So, while many thought that it was overkill in the total shutdown, we certainly understood the n ecessity of the protection. And it was actually quite a very positive thing on behalf of the Government, once they had established the emergency measures, the EMO Committee, to be able to include a Member of the Opposition to sit on that Committee so that co ncerns that were expressed by the Opposition on behalf of its constituents were able to be co nsidered when the terms and conditions were put in place. So, with that said, one of the challenges that we have is the recognition that in each of these ci rcumstances, not only is there a necessity for the Mi nister to step in and shut things down, which makes eminent sense if there is going to be a widespread danger to the public, we obviously want to make sure that this is ameliorated. However, there is also the other side of it in the reopening once that shutdown order has been made. And while this part icular Bill is relating to the Minister’s ability to shut down, this Mi nister, according to this legislation the Minister . . . there is a 30- day period that a health emergency shall have effect, for a period not exceeding 30 days. However, with that sai d, the public health emergency order can be extended for a further period not exceeding 60 days. And I am just curious as to why we have doubled the time when we know that some of the challenges that have existed . . . presently we know that the minute we were able to come out of the shelter -in-place environment which obtained under the Emergency Powers Act, and that was being rolled over for two weeks, 14 days at a time, on the back of two three- day periods of time, so we rolled just over 30 days in total. But the question begs that if that period of time gave rise to the type of release that we saw in the community of the pent -up frustrations that people were feeling as a result of being forced to shelter in place, if that 30 days was deemed to be a little bit much for people to cope with, then I am not sure why we have a possibility of a 60- day extension and whether we could not make that also 30 days at a time. I think that when we look at circumstances that might exist, we have to not only balance the da ngers and being able to try to protect our citizenry, we also have to balance the mental impact of those types of sheltering in place and those types of emergency declarations. So, I am thinking that if we could look to say that, if need be . . . I mean, let us just say that this COVID -19 pandemic was rife and that we had reached some of the stages that were indicated by some of the initial studies that had come out and the models that we were working on in the absence of
Bermuda House of Assembly anything done, if we were not abl e to do anything and found that we were significantly impacted negatively and we had people, you know, passing away more than we would have been able to cope with or that we would have liked, then clearly we have to be able to step in. But 60 days is an aw ful long time. And I do believe that a 30- day period of time initially, which is pretty much what we have just come out of, even though they were done in tranches of 14 days . . . but 60 days, I believe, is a bit of overkill. So, I would just like for the Government to perhaps consider that aspect of it just to ensure that we try to ensure that we are balancing the mental challenges that people have at the same time that we are adhering to and understanding the necessity of having mechanisms in place whereby we can shut down relatively easily. Now, I think that the part that was missing before and is not included here, is the consultation pr ocess. Because while the Government, along with the Minister in consultation with the Chief Medical Officer, are perfectly within their right to say that there is an imminent danger to the majority of our country and we have to step in, there are some things, especially when we are talking about coming out the back end of it, that if we do not have an effective consultati on pr ocess then we are inviting unnecessary angst and confusion amongst our citizens. So, I believe that while we are looking at en abling and allowing for an extension, we also should be able to allow for a methodical retraction of that initial declaration of a state of emergency such that people will know that their concerns have been considered and that it is not left to a small sub- Cabinet of the Government to decide in some instances on issues with which they do not have familiarity. So, those are my concerns and my comments, Mr. Speaker. In the absence of seeing what the Minister is intending to do in terms of an amendment to this Bill, I am afraid I cannot speak to that at this point in time. But I would like to reserve the right, once we do get into C ommittee, recognising that Committee is not the place for debate. But if there is anything that comes out of that amendment that may give rise to further debate, I would like to ask, through you, Mr. Speaker, to the Chair of the Committee, once we get ther e, [if he] would permit any further explor ation, any further depth and explanation of the amendment that the Minister is intending to place because we do not have sight of it. Thank you, sir.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member. Does any other Hono urable Member wish to speak?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMP Pearman, yes. Mr. Scott Pearman: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would just like to follow my colleague the Shadow Minister Patricia Gordon- Pamplin. I just have two very short points to make on the Bill, and I suppose I could make them in Committee, but I might as well …
MP Pearman, yes. Mr. Scott Pearman: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would just like to follow my colleague the Shadow Minister Patricia Gordon- Pamplin. I just have two very short points to make on the Bill, and I suppose I could make them in Committee, but I might as well do them in debate to save time. I, too, think it is slightly odd that where we have a health emergency order being made under this amendment Act, we recogn ise how serious an order it is, and so we say it should be a period not exceeding 30 days. And yet, then it can be extended for further periods not exceeding 60. It does not really make sense to me that if we recognise how serious an order it is and we are restricting it to 30 days in the first i nstance that one would then double an extension. It is just . . . it seems incongruous. That is one point, Mr. Speaker. The second point goes to the amendment that is proposed. I am sorry, I was not aware that ther e was an amendment coming. Perhaps the Honourable Shadow Minister was aware of the amendment, but I was not. And I am guessing—
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Point of order, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerPoint of order? POINT OF CLARITY Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Just to verify that I had no information that there was going to be an amendment until the Minister spoke. So, I am as clueless on this matter as —
The SpeakerThe SpeakerFor clarity . . . for the sake of clarity, we were all informed just now and, as the Minister ind icated, and I think you all heard, I requested that the Minister send the amendment to us so that it can be properly circulated as it would have been …
For clarity . . . for the sake of clarity, we were all informed just now and, as the Minister ind icated, and I think you all heard, I requested that the Minister send the amendment to us so that it can be properly circulated as it would have been had we been in the House. The amendment has now been received and, as we speak, it is being circulated on the SharePoint site. Okay? Continue, MP Pearman.
Mr. Scott PearmanI am grateful, Mr. Speaker. If I heard the Honourable and Learned Mini ster correctly when she was describing the amendment, I think what she was saying was that the carve out at section 107B(4) on page 2, which will provide a carve out for constitutional provisions, was also to …
I am grateful, Mr. Speaker. If I heard the Honourable and Learned Mini ster correctly when she was describing the amendment, I think what she was saying was that the carve out at section 107B(4) on page 2, which will provide a carve out for constitutional provisions, was also to provide a carve out for the Human Rights Act 1981. If that is the amendment, then I understand the sense of it. But, obviously, we will wait and see. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, for allowing me to make those two brief points.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, MP. 4252 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMr. Tyrrell, you have the floor.
Mr. Neville S. TyrrellThank you for acknowledging me, Mr. Speaker, and giving me the opportunity to weigh in on the Bill Public Health Amendment (No. 2) Act 2020. I reall y was going to hold back because it appears that there is some consensus from the other side, barring the amendment that we …
Thank you for acknowledging me, Mr. Speaker, and giving me the opportunity to weigh in on the Bill Public Health Amendment (No. 2) Act 2020. I reall y was going to hold back because it appears that there is some consensus from the other side, barring the amendment that we are going to t able. But let me say I fully support the Minister and thank her for bringing this amendment Act. Now, one of the reas ons why I am speaking on it is because during this long period of shelter in place and then curfew I had more of an opportunity to go online and see comments that were being made by the general public. And several of the comments that concerned me were that people were thinking that we had some bad intention by using the Emergency Powers Act. As was indicated earlier, you know, pe ople are thinking that their human rights were being treaded on. So, I think the Minister has made it very clear in her brief as to what the intent of the Bill is. Som etimes when we present Bills, it is the technicalities of the Bill that may confuse the public. So, I would like, certainly, and it is for that reason that I would like for you to indulge me. I am just referring to tw o sections of the Minister’s brief so that, hopefully, it brings some comfort to the general public as to why we are doing this. With your indulgence, Mr. Speaker?
Mr. Neville S. TyrrellOkay. I refer to the Minister’s brief, the bottom paragraph of page 2 on my printout where [it says]: “The use of the constitutional power to declare a state of emergency and to apply provisions of the Emergency Powers Act is more suited to meeting the challenges of civil unrest …
Okay. I refer to the Minister’s brief, the bottom paragraph of page 2 on my printout where [it says]: “The use of the constitutional power to declare a state of emergency and to apply provisions of the Emergency Powers Act is more suited to meeting the challenges of civil unrest in society. The use in the current pandemic has proven an inelegant means by which to restrict the movement of people and manage the spread of the COVID -19 virus.” Now, there is another portion of that brief that I would go to and it is even shorter than what I just read. It is actually the last sentence of the brief that the Minister read, which reads: “The Bill before the House will improve our ability to meet the demands of any changes in the I sland’s public health situation.” So, Mr. Speaker, what I am basicall y saying is that people need not worry that we are trying to turn Bermuda into a dictatorship or a place where we are restricting people’s rights and things like that. The i ntent of the Bill is certainly to ensure the public that we suppress and contain th e COVID -19. I certainly feel that this Bill and the amendments are transformational actions that we have done to show that we have the interests of the general public in mind. So, Mr. Speaker, with those brief comments let me say [as when] I started, I support the Minister of Health in bringing this Bill. And I think repetition is the only reason why I have spoken so that people really understand what it is that we are intending to do with the Bill . . . the full intent of it. Thank you very much, Mr. Spe aker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, MP Tyrrell. Does any other Member wish to speak? Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Mr. Speaker?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYes? Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: I wish to have a few words on the Public Health Amendment (No. 2) Act 2020.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerGo ahead, MP Dunkley. Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and sorry about earlier. I was at another commitment and I could not get back in time to speak and then I had problems getting back on, but thankfully the connection is here right now. Mr. Speaker, in …
Go ahead, MP Dunkley.
Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and sorry about earlier. I was at another commitment and I could not get back in time to speak and then I had problems getting back on, but thankfully the connection is here right now. Mr. Speaker, in regard to this Public Health Amendment Act, I thank the Honourable Minister for the brief earlier in the presentation. And I am just pi ggy-backing to some extent on what the honourable colleague who preceded me, MP Neville Tyrrell, spoke about, because he rightly does raise a concern that many people in the community have about the use of powers and how enormous they can be. And, obviously, I will support this Public Health Amendment (No. 2) Act [2020] here today and I think it is important to recognise that with authority like this it has to be used in the appropriate way. And I think it is important to also, as we di scuss it, to reflect a little bit about where we have been and what has taken place to set it in a context, what we are doing here. Yes, the Government would like to have flexibility to deal with emergencies as they ha ppen. And certainly we understand and appreciate that. With the COVID -19, it was something that really came out of the blue for Bermuda and much of the world. Everyone was caught in a difficult position and ever yone was playing catch- up. And also, in the beginning,
Bermuda House of Assembly there were so many unknowns about the virus that there was uncertainty. Information was put out on what was the best practice and then was retracted or changed to some extent. And so, I say that against the backdrop that these powers give great authority and, at times, they will need to be used. But any Minister of the day has to have the best professional advice from the Chief Medical Officer. That is t he appropriate thing to do because with this authority there will be consequenc-es. And I think with the COVID -19 challenge that we continue to face, although we have done a good job at this point in time in keeping Bermuda healthy. We have not seen the spr ead of the virus that was predicted. You know, I for one was a bit sceptical of the model that was made public, I think a little bit too late. I was sceptical of the number of deaths that were mooted, over 700, and then the number was dropped. And, you know, thankfully, we have seen that number continue to drop. But we still did lose some lives. So, I was sceptical of those models. But here we are today on June 19 th, perhaps understanding more the health issue we face with a virus like this, but not really understanding or apprec iating the full impact of what will be happening to our people in Bermuda because of the economic fallout. And I think there is a very delicate balance, which I have talked about a number of times already, a very delicate balance of the importance of being able to react quickly if there is a health crisis, and then how long though do you have the firm hand in place where people are locked down, shut down, cannot move around? Because then you have an economic crisis and people’s lives have been turned upside down. So, you know, any Minister [who] has a great authority has to take prudent and wise advice, under-standing the real challenges around it. And then, Mr. Speaker, I think we would be somewhat unwise to have this debate this after noon and not reflect on what consequences the lockdown has had on the Island generally from one end to the other. You know, as the Minister responsible for N ational Security said in his Statement this morning, and I do not have the Statement in front of me, so I will not quote from it, but he talked about some of the beha viour that we saw over the past weekend and did attribute the fact that it might be in relation to people being locked down and how it had an impact on our mental health and what trauma we might have had. And that is a very real possibility, Mr. Speaker. I believe that is something that we all need to consider. At this point in time I do not think we can even measure the impact it might have had on our mental health— all of us in Bermuda— because we all dealt with it in different ways. Whether you are a younger person or an older person, a senior very vulnerable to this situation, we all had a different mental makeup through this lockdown because of the challenges and the conditions we faced. A nd it is going to take some time for all of us, as human beings, to work through these types of challenges. And the best way we can do it is by communicating more, by being open and honest, giving somebody a shoulder to lean on, and those types of things. So, as we come here today to develop sound public health policy, and that is what this Bill is here for, we need to understand that there are many in the community who are quite concerned about the reach of Bills like this, about the impact of Bills like t his, and about the authority and power that it gives to Gover nment Members. And Mr. Speaker, I think back to the time when the OBA was the Government and what the PLP would have said about a Bill like this. I dare say their approach in the Opposition at th e time would have been much more forceful than our approach has been about this, because that seemed to be the a pproach they had. So, I raise these comments in debate because, yes, this type of manoeuvrability —and those are my words which, I think, are appropriate to this Bill— are necessary [at] times. But let us hope they are necessary in only the very miniscule number of times, Mr. Speaker. Because the consequences, the ramifications, of this COVID -19 still have not been felt and in the future we just do not know what the consequences and the ramifications of any health cr isis will be. In this case we know it is going to take Bermuda a long time to recover. And in this case, we know it has impacted trauma on many in our comm unity that it will take us many months to get over. So the public are right to question the author ity that we have given the House of Assembly and so, I urge caution today. And I have some confidence in Minister Wilson, because I know she always appears to a very empathetic person around these issues, and so I believe the direction we are taking is a prudent one. But whenever these decisions are being made we need to understand how some people will think about it. Is it ultimately the only way that we should go? And the ramifications of t he amendment being taken up and used as a public health policy could be severe on our people and how we rebuild from that point would be unknown at that time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, MP. Does any other Member wish to speak?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerGo right ahead, Opposition Whip.
Ms. Susan E. JacksonThank you, Mr. Speaker. I do not want to go on for too long. I certainly remember during the state of emergency that we have had under COVID -19 that it did feel problematic and 4254 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly awkward that we had …
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I do not want to go on for too long. I certainly remember during the state of emergency that we have had under COVID -19 that it did feel problematic and 4254 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly awkward that we had the state of emergency. So, you know, I understand and support this piece of legisl ation, this amendment. But I am curious why we have not been more specific with this amendment by actually labelling it to COVID -19, especially as a public health amendment. You know, I would not mind if the Minister might be able to give us a little bit of an overview of what could potentially be other public health threats that are out there that she would feel that she needed to have a broad brush around. My other piece, too, is that . . . if the Minister of Public Health and the Chief Medical Officer have the control or the power to activate a shelter in place basically, how would the y then get the security pieces in line? Because the Government does not necessar ily have any direct input as far as giving instruction to the police and the Regiment, et cetera. How would that work if this piece of legislation were activated under the Mini ster of Health? And what communication would be necessary for that? And then my other [question] is that, if we are going to have this kind of ability to have shelter in place for a communicable disease, it just lends itself, because we are in this changi ng world . . . what if it is something else next, right? And so, do we end up gi ving every Minister the power to basically shut the I sland down? Because you know the next thing could be in the invasion of the bugs, or it could be anything that would maybe require us to take shelter in place. And it could be under a different Ministry every time. So, I am just curious, one, whether this is not going to necessarily be the most productive way of getting the Government, sort of, out from under a very severe sounding and very severe interpreted state of emergency under the Constitution, which sounds, you know, it is so heavy weighted. But how do we create the ability to keep people safe, but it is safe and it is a little more broad so that we do not have to keep coming back to the House with amendments to Bills based on every possible emergency that could come up because we realise now that anything is possible? And so, how we would deal with that? And so, those are my few words. Thank you,
Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member. Does any other Honourable Member wish to make a comment?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMr. Famous, feel free to make a comment.
Mr. Christopher FamousYes, thank you. Let me put on my camera so I am not breaking the rule.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYes, yes. I am glad you mentioned that, as a reminder to your colleagues, who when they are speaking, their camera should be on.
Mr. Christopher F amousAnd tie. Mr. Speaker, I listened to MP Dunkley and MP Jackson just now and I keep hearing this term like, Well, we don’t know how much damage we did to the economy. We followed this false model. Mr. Speaker, every country was given a model of wors t case …
And tie. Mr. Speaker, I listened to MP Dunkley and MP Jackson just now and I keep hearing this term like, Well, we don’t know how much damage we did to the economy. We followed this false model. Mr. Speaker, every country was given a model of wors t case and best -case scenarios. One of the models for Bermuda, which was articulated by a doctor from King Edward, said a worst -case scenario—
Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Point of order, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Christopher FamousI didn’t point -of-order him. POINT OF CLARIFICATION Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Just for clarity, I never used the words “false models.” That is the word that the Honourable Member used.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerI note your point of order. Continue, Member.
Mr. Christ opher FamousMr. Speaker, we had a doctor from KEMH who said if precautions are not followed we could have as many as 700 deaths. We put in place aggressive social distancing, aggressive lockdown measures and, fortunately thus far, we have seen less than 10 known deaths. I fail to understand why …
Mr. Speaker, we had a doctor from KEMH who said if precautions are not followed we could have as many as 700 deaths. We put in place aggressive social distancing, aggressive lockdown measures and, fortunately thus far, we have seen less than 10 known deaths. I fail to understand why people are not saying we did a good job saving people’s lives, but they keep referring back to the economy. Now, I am not saying the economy is not important; but had we not done this aggressive lockdown and we ha d massive deaths, these same people would be saying, Look, they didn’t follow the advice of the experts. When it comes to health crises, we are not being dictated to by business people. We are being dictated to or directed by health care professionals. These same health care professionals predicted 100,000 to 200,000 deaths in America. They have had, thus far, 120,000 deaths and growing. So, I understand about the economy. I understand people’s livelihoods have been disrupted, but this Government would put people’s lives before a dollar bill, and we make no apologies for that. So, I support the Minister, I support MP Ty rrell, who is her understudy. And we have to be thankBermuda House of Assembly ful for the lives that we saved. There is no price on how many lives we saved. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Mr. Famous. Is there any other Member who wishes to speak? No other Member? Minister, would you like to do your wrap- up and then move us into Committee? Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. And I thank Honourable Members for their contributions to the …
Thank you, Mr. Famous. Is there any other Member who wishes to speak? No other Member? Minister, would you like to do your wrap- up and then move us into Committee?
Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. And I thank Honourable Members for their contributions to the Public Health Amendment (No. 2) Act 2020. I would like to just [use] MP Famous’ comments with respect to the modelling as a segue to the issue that was raised by the Honourable Member MP Dunkley. I just want to remind colleagues that the model that was produced, in aid and assisted through the model of Imperial College in London, was based on a one-year model. So, it was not that the 700- andsome -odd deaths or the 200- and-some- odd deaths (as the best -case scenario) were going to be happe ning immediately. That was based on a one- year period from our first transmission, which was in March. Again, as MP Famous rightly pointed out, that did speak to worst -case scenarios and, fortunately, because of steps t hat the Government took in the early days, which included the shelter in place and the effective closure our borders, we were able to effectively reduce and minimise the level of transmission of COVID -19 because of early intervention. Going on to the comm ents that were made by the Honourable Member, the Opposition Whip, with respect to what other communicable diseases may be listed, you would have noticed in the brief I spoke to categories on the first and second part, which can be found at Part V section 66 of the substantive Act that speaks to highly communicable diseases and infections, such as sexually transmitted diseases, SARS, tuberculosis. But it is communicable diseases of the second category and communicable diseases of the first category which can be found at Part V of the substantive Act, section 66. And also, with respect to the amendment, I do apologise to honourable colleagues that this amendment was not transferred out sooner. So, I do apol ogise. But as my learned and honourable colleague MP Pearman rightly pointed out, it effectively is a carve out for the Human Rights Act. So, both the Constit ution and the Human Rights Act will be carved out to this particular provision. I appreciate the Shadow Minister of Health’s comments and concerns that she raised with respect to the period of time as outlined in—
The SpeakerThe SpeakerIs there a point of clarification?
Mr. Scott PearmanIf the Minister will take a point of clarification.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMinister? Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Yes. POINT OF CLARIFICATION
Mr. Scott PearmanYes, Honourable Minister I just looked at the amendment, and I think what it is doing is it is carving out constitutional rights, but it is not — expressly not —carving out rights under the Human Rights Act. That is how I read the amendment.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerOkay. One point, Minister and MP Pearman, the amendment should really be held off until you go into Committee. You can discuss it in Committee. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Okay.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Okay. Thank you. Yes, with respect to the comments that were raised concerning the time of section [107A] (2) exceeding 30 days and then subsection (3) not exceeding periods of 60 days, I want to just point out (which I think is of utmost …
Thank you.
Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Okay. Thank you. Yes, with respect to the comments that were raised concerning the time of section [107A] (2) exceeding 30 days and then subsection (3) not exceeding periods of 60 days, I want to just point out (which I think is of utmost importance) that not only will the extension that is outlined and envisioned in subsection (3) operate under extreme cases, it will also do so in consultation with the Chief Medical Officer. And subsection (4) must be highlighted in th at any exte nsion made under subsection (3) requires Parliament’s scrutiny. So, we would have to come back to Parli ament in any event because it is affirmative resolution procedure. And on that note and recognising what you said concerning the debate as it relates to the amendment, Mr. Speaker, I would like to move that this Bill now be committed.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Minister. The Minister has now moved us to Commi ttee. I am going to have the Deputy come to the Chair and take us to Committee. Deputy? Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. House in Committee at 4:3 5 pm 4256 19 June 2020 Official …
Thank you, Minister. The Minister has now moved us to Commi ttee. I am going to have the Deputy come to the Chair and take us to Committee. Deputy?
Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
House in Committee at 4:3 5 pm
4256 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly [Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr., Chair man]
COMMITTEE ON BILL
PUBLIC HEALTH AMENDMENT (NO. 2) ACT 2020
The ChairmanChairmanHonourable Members, we are now in Committee of the whole [House] for further consider ation of the Bill entitled the Public Health Amendment (No. 2) Act 2020 . Minister, you have the floor. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to move clauses 1 and 2.
The ChairmanChairmanContinue. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. Chairman, clause 1 is self - explanatory. Clause 2 inserts in section 66(1) of the princ ipal Act the definition “public health emergency order”, which is an order declaring a public health emergency under section 107A(1).
The ChairmanChairmanAre there any further speakers? Minister, do you want to move that those clauses 1 and 2 be approved? Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Yes, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that clauses 1 and 2 be approved.
The ChairmanChairmanIt has been moved that clauses 1 and 2 be approved. Are there any objections to that? Approved. [Motion carried: Clauses 1 and 2 passed.]
The ChairmanChairmanContinue. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to move clause 3, which is the subject of the amendment that I spoke about in the previous session.
The ChairmanChairmanYes, continue. AMENDMENT TO CLAUSE 3 Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move the amendment, that clause 3 is amended in section 107B by inserting the following new subsection after subsection (4): “(5) For the avoidance of doubt, in subsection (4), ‘any such provision of law ’ …
Yes, continue.
AMENDMENT TO CLAUSE 3 Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move the amendment, that clause 3 is amended in section 107B by inserting the following new subsection after subsection (4): “(5) For the avoidance of doubt, in subsection (4), ‘any such provision of law ’ includes any provision of the Human Rights Act 1981.” And by renumbering the existing subsections (5) to (9) accordingly.
The ChairmanChairmanAre there any speakers to the [amendment]?
Mr. Scott PearmanThank you. The Honourable and Learned Minister is moving an amendment, and I think, respectfully, that the Honourable and Learned Minister misspoke earlier in respect to the amendment and she very kindly took my point of clarification. I just want to check that the Honourable and Learned Minister agrees with …
Thank you. The Honourable and Learned Minister is moving an amendment, and I think, respectfully, that the Honourable and Learned Minister misspoke earlier in respect to the amendment and she very kindly took my point of clarification. I just want to check that the Honourable and Learned Minister agrees with me just what is happening by reason of this amendment. What is effectively happening is that the Health Minister, whoever he or she may be, will have the power to issue an emergency order that will not exceed 30 days. There will then be a debate in Parliament under the affirmative procedure for an exten-sion. But in terms of the scope and power of the order, it will apply and override any provision of law as we see at [section] 107B(4) and the amendment being inserted —just so we are all clear —means that t his will override the Human Rights Act. And all that is being carved out, as I understand the amendment, is the constitutional rights. So, the constitutional rights will still trump these emergency orders or the regulations made under these emergency orders, more specifically, but the Human Rights Act will be in line with any other prov ision of law and it will be overridden by the emergency health order. I think that is the understanding of what is happening by reason of the amendment. I apologise becaus e I have been reading the amendment quickly on an electronic screen, as is everyone else, but I would be grateful for the Minister’s confirmation on that point. Thank you.
The ChairmanChairmanMinister, do you want to respond to that? Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Yes, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think I did that in the wrong order. I did not actually continue reading the brief on what clause 3 seeks to do. I moved to the amendment without act ually providing …
Minister, do you want to respond to that?
Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Yes, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think I did that in the wrong order. I did not actually continue reading the brief on what clause 3 seeks to do. I moved to the amendment without act ually providing the substantive explanatory portion. May I proceed?
The Chair man: Proceed.
Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Clause 3 inserts sections 107A and 107B into the principal Act.
Bermuda House of Assembly Section 107A(1) provides for the making of a public health emergency order. If, after consultation with the Chief Medical Officer, it appears to the Mini ster that a communicable disease which poses a s evere threat to public health exists in Bermuda, or that there is an immediate risk of an outbreak of such di sease in Bermuda, and that it is necessary in the interests of public health to take extraordinary meas ures to prevent, control or suppress the disease, the Minister may by order declare a public health emergency. The order is subject to the negative resolution procedure. Subsection (2) provides that the order shall be for a period that does not exceed 30 days but, under subsection (3), the duration of the order may be extended for further periods not exceeding 60 days at a time. Subsection (4) provides that any extension under subsection (3) shall be made by order subject to the affirmative resolution proce dure. Section 107B(1) provides that regulations under this section may be made, and shall have effect, only during a period in which there is in force a public health emergency order. Subsection (2) provides that the Governor, on the advice of the Minister , may make such regulations as appear to him to be necessary for the prevention, control or suppression of a communicable disease in respect of which a public health emergency order is in force, and such regulations may, in particular: (a) prescribe measur es that a person is required to take to protect public health in specified places or ci rcumstances, (b) restrict a person, at any time or dur-ing such times as may be specified in the regulations, from being outside his home or from being in any ot her place , (c) prescribe any other measures necessary to prevent, control or suppress the spread of the di sease, and (d) provide for guidance to be issued by the Minister on precautions to be taken and procedures to be followed for the prevention, control or suppression of the disease. Subsection (3) provides that the regulations may make different provision in respect of different persons, places, parts of Bermuda and circumstances. Subsection (4) provides that the regulations shall have effect notwithstanding anyt hing inconsistent therewith contained in any provision of law (other than a provision of the Constitution), and that any such provision of law which is inconsistent with any such regulations, to the extent of such inconsistency, shall have no effect so long as such regulations are in force. Subsection (5) provides that any regulations in force immediately before a public health emergency order ceases to be in force shall cease to have effect as from the date of the public health emergency order ceasing to be in force without prejudice to anything previously done or omitted to be done thereunder. For the avoidance of doubt, subsection (6) provides that sections 171 and 172 of the principal Act, which are general provisions relating to regul ations made under t he Act, apply to regulations under this section. These sections provide, amongst other things, for the regulations to provide for offences and penalties, and to be subject to the negative resolution procedure. Subsection (7) provides for the publication of guidance issued under such regulations and states that any guidance is not a statutory instrument. Subsection (8) provides that, in determining whether a person has committed an offence under such regulations, a court may consider whether an accused perso n has followed any relevant guidance that was current at the time of the commission of the offence. Subsection (9) defines “guidance” as gui dance referred to in subsection (2)(d), and “communi-cable disease” as a communicable disease of the first category or a communicable disease of the second category, which expressions are defined in section 66(1) of the principal Act. So, with respect to the issue concerning the amendment, I was incorrect with respect to my initial submissions as it being a carve out. It is to make clear that with respect to the definition of “any such prov ision of law” that includes the Human Rights Act 1981. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The ChairmanChairmanThank you, Minister. Are there any further speakers? Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Yes, I do have a question.
The ChairmanChairmanMs. Gordon- Pamplin, continue. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, sir. It goes back to my initial question that we had in respect of the period of time between 30 days and 60 days and the Minister had indic ated that it is by the affirmative resolution. Because we …
Ms. Gordon- Pamplin, continue.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, sir. It goes back to my initial question that we had in respect of the period of time between 30 days and 60 days and the Minister had indic ated that it is by the affirmative resolution. Because we have the ability to very quickly recall Parliament, as we have been able to do, we have virtual capabilities, does it not create less of an anxiety factor to have extension of a period not exceeding 30 days as opposed to not exceeding 60 days, which seems like an inordinate length of time? If the Minister could perhaps give us, under that same clause, some indication as to what she might deem to be something that we could consider as being a 60- day or worthy of 90 days (because of the 30 and then the extension of 60, possibly) . . . so if the Minister could give us some indication as to some scenario that she might deem to be worthy of 90 days of public health emergency, it would just be helpful to be able to understand the thought process. And the second question that I have is in r espect of (it is on page 2) subsection [(4)] speaking to the regulations made under this section being in force. 4258 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly The question that I have is: What are the procedures to de -escalate the state of emergency?
The ChairmanChairmanMinister, can you respond? Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With respect to the procedures to de- escalate, these orders . . . as was previously stated, anything made under [section 107A](3) ex pires. So, after there is an extension not exceeding 30 days, so if . . …
Minister, can you respond? Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With respect to the procedures to de- escalate, these orders . . . as was previously stated, anything made under [section 107A](3) ex pires. So, after there is an extension not exceeding 30 days, so if . . . they expire. So, if, for whatever reason, there was a need and a public health emergency order has been de-clared, and it was, again, with consultation with the Chief Medical Officer , it does not, under [section 107A](2) exceed 30 days. So, it could be only for 14 days, it could be due for 7 days, it just depends on the circumstances, which is a segue to the other question that was asked by the Honourable Member about can I envision ( as the Minister or the Government) a sc enario which would warrant perhaps an extension of 60 days. Off the top of my head I cannot. But I certainly did not envision four months ago that we would be having a shelter in place for 30 days because of a communi cable disease of the extent of COVID -19 that nobody else could have foreseen, too. So, I do not have a crystal ball. I am not trying to be flippant, but I just cannot, at this point, envision. But what I can say, as I said previously, before Committee that this consultation—the exercise— will be in consultation with the Chief Medical Officer and it would certainly have to be exercised very cautiously as well in the most extreme cases where it would be extended to the period that is envisioned in [section 107A](3). But, again, it also requires parliamentary scrutiny as outlined in [section 107A](4).
The ChairmanChairmanAny further speakers? Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: No, I am fine with that explanation, Mr. Chairman, thank you.
The ChairmanChairmanThere appear t o be no further speakers. Minister, do you want to move that amendment? Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I move that the amendment be approved.
The ChairmanChairmanIt has been moved that the amendment to clause 3 be approved. Are th ere any objections to that? There appear to be none. Approved. [Motion carried: Amendment to clause 3 passed.] Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to move that the Bill be reported …
The ChairmanChairmanMinister, move c lause 3 as amended. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: I am sorry. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move clause 3, as amended please.
The ChairmanChairmanAre there any objections to moving clause 3 as amended? There appear to be none. Approved. [Motion carried: Clause 3 passed as amended.]
The ChairmanChairmanJust move the preamble now. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would move that the preamble be approved.
The ChairmanChairmanIt has been moved that the preamble be approved. Are there any objections to that? There appear to be none. Approved. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that the Bill be reported to the House as amended.
The ChairmanChairmanIt has been moved that the Bill be reported to the House as amended. Are there any objections to that? There appear to be none. Approved. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The ChairmanChairmanThe Bill will be reported to the House as amended. [Motion carried: The Public Health Amendment Act (No. 2) 2020 was considered by a Committee of the whole House and passed as amended.] House resumed at 4:47 pm [Hon. Dennis P. Lister, Jr., Speaker, in the Chair] REPORT OF COMMITTEE …
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Deputy. Members, the Bill has been reported to the House as amended. Are there any objections to that? Bermuda House of Assembly No objections. The Bill entitled the Public Health Amendment (No. 2) Act 2020 has been repor ted and approved as amended. That brings us to a …
Thank you, Deputy. Members, the Bill has been reported to the House as amended. Are there any objections to that?
Bermuda House of Assembly No objections. The Bill entitled the Public Health Amendment (No. 2) Act 2020 has been repor ted and approved as amended. That brings us to a close of that item. We will now move on to the third item on the Order Paper today, which is the second reading of the Contributory Pensions Temporary Amendment Act 2020 in the name of the Minister of Finance. Minister, would you like to present your matter? Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Minister. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker, I move that the Bill entitled the Contributory Pensions Temporary Amendment Act 2020 be now read the second time.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAre there any objections to that? No objections. Continue, Minister . BILL SECOND READING CONTRIBUTORY PENSIONS TEMPORARY AMENDMENT ACT 2020 Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker, I now pr esent the Contributory Pensions Temporary Amendment Act 2020 for the consideration of Honourable Members. Mr. Speaker, the Contributory Pensions Fund was …
Are there any objections to that? No objections. Continue, Minister .
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker, I now pr esent the Contributory Pensions Temporary Amendment Act 2020 for the consideration of Honourable Members. Mr. Speaker, the Contributory Pensions Fund was established under the Contributory Pensions Act 1970. The purpose of the fund is to, among other things, provide old age pensions, disability and death benefits for persons satisfying certain contributions, citizenship and/or residen cy requirements. Contrib utions are payable in respect of employed and self - employed persons. The employer pays $35.92 per week for each employee and the employee pays an equal amount if he is under the age of 65. Self - employed persons under the age of 65 p ay a contrib ution equal to the joint contributions of employer and employee. Honourable Members are aware that COVID - 19 has had a significant impact on economic activity and social conditions in Bermuda. Government has swiftly introduced a temporary unemployment benefit for employees who have been laid off as a result of the COVID -19 pandemic. Additionally, to further assist, the scope of refund withdrawals under the N ational Pension Scheme (Occupational Pensions) Act 1998 was amended to include a one- time withdrawal by members or former members of $12,000 in the period from 1 July 2020 until 30 June 2021. Finally, the National Pension Scheme (Occupational Pensions) Temporary Amendment Act 2020 has been tabled in order to provide a full suspension of planne d contributions by members and employers for the period from 1 July 2020 to the 30 June 2021. COVID -19 has also had a significant impact on businesses and the Government has implemented several emergency measures to assist businesses that have a pressing need for financial relief as a r esult of this pandemic. Despite this relief, several bus inesses have approached the Ministry seeking further relief by way of a suspension of their obligations to make contributions under the Contributory Pension Act 1970. Mr. Speaker, to provide further support to employees, employers and self -employed persons during this unprecedented period, it is proposed to amend the Contributory Pension Act 1970 to allow for the voluntary suspension of contributions by employees, emplo yers and self -employed persons for a period from 1 July 2020 to the 30 June 2021. This is a tem-porary measure that will provide temporary relief to employers and provide additional income to emplo yees. Additional income to employees provides stim ulus for our economy. This measure is voluntary. Therefore, employers, employees, and self -employed persons who chose not to suspend their contributions will continue to make their contributions during the suspension period. Mr. Speaker, total CPF [Contributory Pension Fund] contributions are approximately $113 million per year. If a portion of the suspension of contributions is taken up in the private sector, it will provide relief to families and businesses and a stimulus to our econ omy. Honourable Members are advised benefits to the CPF are tied to the number of contributions made into the fund, therefore, no benefits will accrue under the fund unless contributions are made. Where e mployees have suspended their contributions, this Act provides for those employees to make voluntary contributions into the fund after the suspension period has ended. Mr. Speaker, as at the 30 April 2020, the fund had net assets of over $1.8 billion, representing approximately 10 times the annual value of benefits paid in the 2018/19 fiscal year. This is a relatively high number of funding when compared to 14 other r egional social security schemes. In a 2013 study Ber-muda’s ratio is better than 9 of these countries, which average about 7.5 years. By comparison the ratio for the Canada pension plan in 2018 was 8.1 times. Mr. Speaker, if the CPF received no further contributions, it could still continue to pay out pe nsions at the prevailing rate for almost 10 years. The last actuary report for the CPF was for the period 1 August 2017 and has already been tabled in this Honourable House. Honourable Members are advised that the next actuary review of the Contributory Pen4260 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly sion Fund is scheduled for the period ending 31 July 2020. Mr. Speaker, the CPF was established in 1970 and thus has a r ather simplistic design. Since the CPF was established, there have not been any meaningful reforms to the plan, even after the mandatory National Pension Scheme (Occupational Pensions) Act 1998 was introduced. Accordingly, the Mi nistry is of the view any r eform of the CPF should take a holistic view of pensions for the various categories of workers to reduce coverage gaps and any other anomalies. With the CPF as the first pillar of retir ement income, reformed CPF benefits, together with other pensions provi de for progressive benefits and a contributory formula at levels that can lead to the sustainability of the CPF in the long term. Accordingly, Mr. Speaker, the Ministry plans to engage the Government’s actuary of record and any other service providers required to conduct a comprehensive review of all pensions in Bermuda. It is anticipated that this engagement will be completed by the end of 2020 at the latest and will be shared with this Honourable House. Mr. Speaker, this Bill provides further relief to employees, employers and self -employed persons and provides for the following: • it allows for the voluntary suspension of employees, employers, and self -employed persons in respect of contributions into the Co ntributory Pension Fund for the whole of the suspension period; • it provides that an agreement is needed between the employer and the employee if the employer decides to suspend his contributions as they relate to an employee; • because the suspension of contributions is voluntary, employees, employers and selfemployed persons who do not wish to suspend their contributions will continue to co ntribute to the fund during the suspension per iod; • it makes employers still liable to pay any employer or employee contributions outstanding before the suspension peri od commences; • it creates offences if an employer continues to deduct contributions when the employee has given notice that he has decided to suspend payments of his contribution; • it provides than an employee may make vol-untary contributions after the suspension per iod has ended; and • it makes consequential amendments. Mr. Speaker, with those introductory remarks, I now welcome comments from other Members. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Minister. Does any other Member wish to speak? Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Yes, thank you,
Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member, you have the floor. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Mr. Speaker, we have had many debates in respect of this particular kind of issue in which it is important, under these ci rcumstances, to create as much of a cash flow a dvantage as is humanly …
Thank you, Honourable Member, you have the floor. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Mr. Speaker, we have had many debates in respect of this particular kind of issue in which it is important, under these ci rcumstances, to create as much of a cash flow a dvantage as is humanly possible, given the rather ex-tenuating circumstances and the visit of COVID -19 that none of us either invited or wanted. Mr. Speaker, we obviously understand that cash flows are critical to sustaining businesses and, as such, if the suspension of these contributions to the Contributory Pension Fund is going to help a company to stay afloat, then it would be difficult for us to say no, we do not support it. Similarly, having a suspension by an employee to decide that they will also want to have the benefit of the extra money at the moment to be able to have additional cash flow is certainly under-stood and that, again, will perhaps help a family from succumbing to diffi cult budgetary constraints and their inability to perhaps meet some very basic needs that they may have. Mr. Speaker, I always take advantage of this particular opportunity to remind people of their eligibi lity for the Contributory Pension pay out. It is an ent itlement according to the legislation that at the age of 65 for somebody who is working, irrespective of whether they are still in the workforce, they are ent itled to get their Contributory Pension funds on a monthly basis at the various determined s chedules that the Ministry puts out. And they are usually adjus ted or amended in the month of August. Mr. Speaker, this is just a reminder that the application for all contributory pensions can be made in the year that one turns 65, but the application pr ocess can commence actually before one’s 65 th birthday so that at the time they turn 65 they will have access to the contributory pension. One of the challenges that exists is that if, for whatever reason, the full number of contributions have not been made by an individual during his working years, when they get to the ability to receive the contributory pensions their amount that they get on a monthly basis will be diminished to the extent that they have not made up the full amount of the contribution. T his gives an employee who for whatever reason may not have been able to contribute to these pe nsions during his working life, they may have the ability to actually make up those contributions such that when they reach the age at which they are entitled to receive the pensions, that they would be able to get the maximum amount that is available to them. Now, very clearly, when people are in strai tened financial circumstances and do not have the ability to make up contributions, then when they start
Bermuda House of Assembly to get t heir cheques after their eligibility date, then those cheques are likely to be diminished to the extent, by the formula that is applied if somebody has not made all of the contributions. I just had a question in terms of the legisl ation, because there is a proviso that on these suspensions if the employer is going to not make his contr ibution during the suspension period, it has to be done on the approval of the employee. And while we under-stand the purpose for it, the question then begs, What if the employ ee says no? If the employee says, I still want my money to go in and I am not going to approve for you not to put my money in. What is the fail - safe that the employer has if such a stance is taken by the employee? I just think that it is also important to recognise, Mr. Speaker, that again . . . and I think it is going to be appended to almost every legislation that we have where we are trying to ease the burdens that we have on families, to point out that notwithstanding COVID -19 has been a particularly st ressful time financially, we cannot use COVID -19 as an excuse for ev erything. Some of the challenges in the country, [like] the failure to have any sort of economic growth over the course of the last couple of years, has helped to exacerbate this whole sit uation where people just plain do not have money. I think that we cannot, by tweaking things in this regard, albeit welcomed under these circumstances, excuse the failure of any proc edures, policies, or anything to come down the pipeline, that has been abl e to grow the economy and help our people through these very difficult times. Mr. Speaker, it is the growth of the economy that is going to keep us all afloat. It is the growth of the economy that is going to enable people to be able to ride the waves of t hese types of challenges when there is a demand and a stress on their financial situation that they had no ability to foresee or foretell. I think that we as Government, and I say this with collective responsibility of all of us who have been elec ted to the House of Assembly, have an obligation to the people of this country, Mr. Speaker, to be able to put in place policies such that they are not finding themselves in such straitened circumstances because we have to have ideas and thoughts and processes and policies that help to grow the economy so that there is more money available. The Government with the responsibility that has been left to them as the Executive, have really not given us any sort of comfort that such policies have been in. [AUDIO SKIP] We have seen virtually zero growth. Many of our citizens, Mr. Speaker, have had significant challenges prior to COVID -19. We saw a falling of the retail price index [RPI] for, God knows, months prior. There is a combination of things that have happened so that people had started to feel the pinch even before COVID -19. So while COVID -19 has served to exacerbate the situation, it still does not ex-onerate the Government and the Executive from en-suring that they have put together something that is going to assist in growing our economy. Our people are struggling. We have bus inesses that are closing down, and while these temporary cash flow measures may assist some in staying afloat, and literally having maybe a maximum of a 30day period of sustainability, it is not going to be enough to be able to assist those companies that were having difficulty prior to, who have perhaps extended themselves beyond even reasonable financial measures to try to stay afloat, and most of whom are doing so not necessarily because the y want to stay afloat for their own good, but because many of them have a social conscience that says they want to do the best that they can for their employees, to try to keep their employees employed so that even once we come out of the back end of this crisis, that these e mployees will have a job to go to. Mr. Speaker, it also allows us to reflect on the fact that, notwithstanding these allowances at this point in time for people not to have to pay in, there are going to be some people at the end of this process who will not have a brick -and-mortar to go back to. It is our reality that the “new norm” is going to be signif icantly different from what the old situation was. And while I have less concern about the contributory pe nsion fund, because as the Min ister has indicated we are something like 10 times the . . . you know, we have $1.8 billion dollars in the fund and we effectively have 10 years within which we probably would not have to stress, given current levels of payment r equirements out of the fund . . . we can manage it for another 10 years. But the $1.8 billion dollars’ worth of assets, with the assumption that the investing of those assets is not put in such a situation in which the markets go completely wonky and that there is something that does not support the basic $1.8 billion worth of assets. So, with those thoughts in mind, Mr. Speaker, I am going to bring it back to the situation that if we are failing, and continuously fail to do something to grow the economy —and let’s not use COVID -19 as the excuse—then we are going to find ourselves looking for another reason to do something else to suspend payments and ultimately that does not bode well. With the Contributory Pension Fund, we do know that the Consolidated Fund will make up any shortfall if there happened to be a shortfall som ewhere down the road. That is just one of the safety mechanisms built into the process. But I think that we have to be mindful of our responsibility and our obligation to be able to grow the economy so that our people are not struggling and that we have to look for the suspension of these contributory pension monies to provide temporary cash flows. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member. 4262 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMP Pearman, you have the floor.
Mr. Scott PearmanThank you, Mr. Speaker. I just have two very brief high- level points to make about this Bill. The first relates to something that was said by the Honourable Minister of Finance during the presen-tation of his brief. Toward the tail end of his brief he said that there would …
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just have two very brief high- level points to make about this Bill. The first relates to something that was said by the Honourable Minister of Finance during the presen-tation of his brief. Toward the tail end of his brief he said that there would be a comprehensive review, or words to that effect (those are my words not his), of the pension system in Bermuda and talked about looking at progressive benefits. Obviously, it is always sensible to review these things. But I would point out that this is a contributory pension scheme that has been in place for some 50 years, and in a very pos itive way. There is the old adage, if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. I am concerned what the Honourable Minister meant by this review and this attempt to focus in on progressive benefits. I would welcome clarification from the Honourable Minister if he is intending to take certain people out of the contributory pension scheme, or anything of that like. No doubt he can explain further what was meant by that, but this has been a rel atively successful scheme leaving aside the funding or otherwise of the Contributory Pension Fund. We understand that the next review of how much is in the Contributory Pension Fund will be the 31 st of July of this year, so we shall wait and see. But there is a second point, and I think this is an important point because this goes to a number of the Bills th at we have been debating in response to COVID -19, including both this Bill and the Bill immediately following on the National Pension Scheme. I think what is important for people to realise is that what the Government is doing is, in effect, giving you back, earlier, your own money. And it is important to recognise that the pensions that are in place are pen-sions that belong to the people. And they exist be-cause they are there for a rainy day. There were a number of speakers in the d ebate previously (I won ’t reflect upon it) who rightly said, Well, it is raining with COVID -19. And that is true. But it should be noted that what is being done is to take money out of that piggy bank, or that rainy day fund, or that safety net, and allow someone to deploy it no w. So they are, in effect, allowing you to have your own money. And I think that that is a very i mportant point to be noted. And it is correct that there are those who are very much hurting, and they do need access to that money today and cannot afford to wait, and we recognise that. But there are also those, as many MPs from both sides of the aisle in the debate two weeks ago observed, who should stop and pause and think before spending pension income now because what it ultimately means is less will be t here when they get to that retirement pensionable age. Mr. Speaker, I just wanted to make those two high-level points, and I look forward to a response from the Honourable Finance Minister as to what exactly was meant with the analysis of progressive benefits in the joint pension schemes, or the multiple pension schemes. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Member. Does any other Member wish to speak?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThat sounds like the Honourable Member from the East End. Honourable Member Ming, you have the floor.
Mrs. Renee MingThank you. Good afternoon, Mr. Speaker, and those in the listening audience. I would just like to give a few comments of support, actually, in regard t o this legislation. Mr. Speaker, six months ago I do not think we were even talking about pandemics. And so we find ourselves …
Thank you. Good afternoon, Mr. Speaker, and those in the listening audience. I would just like to give a few comments of support, actually, in regard t o this legislation. Mr. Speaker, six months ago I do not think we were even talking about pandemics. And so we find ourselves in a space now where not only are we tal king about it, we are living through it. And so as a Go vernment, living through it means that basically we have to do things which provide some relief, in this case. And a lot of what you heard the Minister say was that this particular piece of legislation has been put in place to provide relief, relief to employers who are desperately trying to keep their heads above w ater during this COVID -19 pandemic. And then for the employees it provides additional funds. So we find ourselves in a difficult situation, and sometimes in di fficult situations we have to make some difficult dec isions. We have legislation before us today that will hopefully provide the relief (and I am going to carefully say this, Mr. Speaker), should an employer wish to have that other relief or additional funds. I know that sometimes we go through the legislation and when we are thinking about it, a lot of times (and that legislation in particular) it says “in agreement with.” So there must be an agreement between the employee and the employer in regard to any suspension (because that is what we are talking about today, a suspension), and the legislation is actually designed to provide that much -needed relief. Mr. Speaker, none of us who are legislators today can say that we have actually governed through a pandemic. So, a lot of what you are seeing from this Government is hav ing to adjust and become adapt able and, at the same time, we are trying to find ways
Bermuda House of Assembly to provide the relief for those persons who are actually screaming at us now for relief. Mr. Speaker, my colleague mentioned that we have to find new (I guess for a lack of a better word) “economic pillars.” And I wholeheartedly agree that we must find other ways to get revenue. So when we talk about the status quo, these are some of the things we are talking about, and thinking outside of the box and coming up with more i deas. And I just hope that as we move forward, the same way that we speak about finding new pillars, we have to look at doing things differently, so that we can be collaborative in that measure, because sometimes when we become accustomed to things being a certain way, Mr. Speaker, we forget, and we do not allow ourselves to even look outside of that box to see if that same thing can be achieved in a different way or if we can actually do things differently to have a greater result. So, doing things differ ently, Mr. Speaker, for me, I do not think it is so bad. A lot of times I guess when we talk about the status quo , Mr. Speaker, we are talking about what is currently in place and what we are looking to put in place. The contributory pe nsion original Bill . . . I think someone gave the history of it already and talked about why we have this Bill, and we talked about that rainy day. And so when we look at the fact that we have this legislation before us today we know why we have it, and we know that it is a suspension of payments, if agreed. And it also outlines how things can be done and even where it may be an offence to continue to deduct those payments from an employee’s salary. Mr. Speaker, I also thought what was i mportant was the fact that . . . because I wondered if a person or if an employer was not current with their payments, how would have that been taken care of in this legislation? And the legislation is clear in that [si tuation] as well because it speaks to if an employer is liable, and has a balance, even during this period they must continue to pay the outstanding amount. So, I think this is important for employees to . . . they should know that, because if you have someone who at this time is not current, and I believe the suspen-sion period is for the year, the employee should know that their payments should continue even if there is an agreement to suspend the payments for the year. And I am really hopeful that as we get on to the Committee stage that the clauses are [discussed] in a way th at members of the public can understand what their rights are with regard to this amendment, because it is very important that if you agree to the suspension of the payments that you understand ex-actly what you are suspending. Yes, you understand the futur e side of it in terms of payments when you may retire at the age of 65, you understand the part [about] the agreement between the employee and the employer, and you also understand that the payments have to continue if they are not current and that you understand that, if there is an agreement that has al-ready been [made] saying that you want to suspend your payments and you have agreed that with your employer, it is an offence to continue to deduct those payments. So, Mr. Speaker, I think that not only emplo yees and the employers, [but] especially those who are in need, will appreciate the fact that we have come up with some sort of a relief thing, because at this stage for some people every single dollar counts. And so the fact that you have a few more d ollars in your pocket to kind of keep your own head above water, I think that there are some, and I know some, who will be very grateful because they have fallen on some really, really hard times. And even though they may still be wor king at this time, Mr. Speaker, there may be one person in that home who is not working. And so, like I said, every single dollar counts. And the fact that they will have some additional funds that can be either used to keep their own head above water or used within our own com munities, I think that this will be appreciated. So, I encourage everyone, especially those persons who are thinking about it, to look into it a bit more and just make sure that you understand how the law either protects you or what are the rules governing it. And if you are in need of this relief, then I encourage you to do what it is that you feel you need to do. I thank the Minister of Finance, though, Mr. Speaker, because I do not think many of us want his job right now. I, for one, can tell you, I do n’t, so he does not have to worry about that. He is in a difficult space, and even though I may not have his job, I can tell you that there are days when I have periods of great stress because we know how difficult it is for our people right now, Mr. Speak er. We know how difficult it is for anyone who either may not be working, [or might be working] at reduced hours, at reduced sal ary, and in his role he is always trying to find ways to be able to make those ends meet. And even in our role as legislators, w hether we sit in the Government or in the Opposition, where we have either suggestions or solutions or things that we believe to be a great idea, that we put forth those ideas. It makes no sense being political or even petty during this period when we know that our people may be suffering, Mr. Speaker. And so as we move and manoeuvre through this pandemic I look forward to collaborative work and I also look forward to some of the new creative ideas that are not just coming from the legislators, but things that are coming from members of the public. And I say that, Mr. Speaker, in earnest because I have been stopped on the road maybe three or four times by persons who have submitted ideas to the Minister of Finance of things that they believe would be great a nd which is something that the Government can work with, whether it be to grow the economy, to increase revenue. And I think it is awesome that even the public are thinking of ways to kind of get us out of this. 4264 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly So, I encourage members of the public to continue to think about what we can do and to submit their ideas, because I am pretty sure that everything we get is being considered. And I think that if we co ntinue to work together we will see the other side of this. The light is not that far away from us , Mr. Speaker. I think it is just going to take collaboration and some cooperation on both sides of this House for us to even consider and make sure that we are listening to our public. So, Mr. Speaker, with that I will close my comments. Thank you very m uch.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member. Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak? Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYes. Honourable Member, you have the floor. Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate the Honourable Minister’s intr oduction of this Bill and some of the background pr ovided in the Bill. I guess the Bill gives some [INAUDIBLE 03:21:45] to the public to appreciate that there …
Yes. Honourable Member, you have the floor.
Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate the Honourable Minister’s intr oduction of this Bill and some of the background pr ovided in the Bill. I guess the Bill gives some [INAUDIBLE 03:21:45] to the public to appreciate that there are some years of payments that are available in the fund. But I do believe that Members of the legislature will look forward to the next report on the fund [because] it clearly appears that we have an older and older wor king population [ INAUDIBLE]. I am sure it is going to have some impact on pension contributio ns going forward. The Minister of Finance does have a very di fficult job in the best of circumstances and in this case with a national health crisis, and [ INAUDIBLE] prices, there are very few believers that a Minister of Finance can still be successful i n trying to help change the course, the current course of any economy. And in this case, the suspension of payments for a year certainly is a decision that everyone can support because it is a tool that will help give some leeway to people who are struggli ng to make ends meet. But it does mean that down the road they are going to have to pay to make up the shortfall that the suspension over the next year has created. And so, you know, with this amendment here today, knowing full well that the contributory pension is a small pension, so to speak, but it is a contribution that we make on a weekly basis that is reasonable for an employer and an employee, [and] if it can help people in need then that is the way I think we should go forward on this. I have heard the Minister and ot hers talking about stimulating the economy, and that is good as well. But the main thing is we need to help those who are struggling. [I have a] couple of questions for the Honourable Minister when he wraps up. Upon retirement, what h appens if an employee and an employer suspend payment for one year? How does the suspe nsion of their payment for one year impact the pension they will get upon retirement? Maybe I missed it in the introduction, but I think a lot of people want to know what the impact down the road will be to somebody’s pension if they suspend the payment of it at this point in time. Another question to the Honourable Minister, and I think it is important that we ask as many ques-tions as possible because people are concerne d and have the same questions. And I support the Honour able Member who spoke before me in having a discus-sion and getting questions and answers. But one of the questions is: For people who are already being paid a pension, will the suspension of contributi ons for a year have any impact on their pension? Obviously, there are a number of people who are getting paid at the present time. They are not pa ying into the programme, but will this suspension have any impact on the pension they get now and into the future? Because as people have a decision to make on July 1 st when this passes both Chambers, they will have a decision to make whether it is proper and the best move for them to suspend their contributions to have more money in their pay cheque at the present time, or to continue to make the payment so that they will have more money upon retirement. Those are decisions that are going to be tough for people, and we have to give them the answers to help them make those decisions. So with those few comments, Mr. Speaker, I turn it back to you and any other speakers.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member. Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThat sounds like Deputy Opposition Leader. Honourable Member, you have the floor.
Ms. Leah K. ScottThank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I appreciate what the Gover nment is trying to do with this piece of legislation. It concerns me that we have to take a step where people have to actually tap into their future to live in their present, and I think I have …
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I appreciate what the Gover nment is trying to do with this piece of legislation. It concerns me that we have to take a step where people have to actually tap into their future to live in their present, and I think I have said that before, because in addition to the suspension of the payments by the employer and/or the employee, it is not just that amount that they are putting in their pension that they are taki ng out. They are losing out on any returns and any gains in the market. So they are actually losing money. The other thing, Mr. Speaker, is that while we are affording them the opportunity to have additional
Bermuda House of Assembly cash in their pocket immediately, there also has to be some sort of plan or budget. My mother used to say, If you can’t pay one months’ rent, you are not going to be able to pay two, and you certainly are not going to be able to pay three. So, there has to be an addition with the suspension of the paym ents and the addition of extra money in a pay packet every month, some sort of plan to ensure that when that year is up that people are not in the same position. As our Shadow Finance Minister stated, we got to get the economy going. We can have all of these Band- Aid measures, but at the end of the day we need businesses here, we need investment here, we need to get the economy going. The economy was in a bad state before the pandemic. Stores were closing, people were losing jobs, people were leaving, Ber mudians were emigrating to the UK and other places because they could not afford the cost of living here. We have a number of issues that need to be addressed. Suspending pension payment is not going to do anything in terms of addressing our overall econom ic issue. And that is what we need to be looking at, and how we are going to address that. And there is not going to be an easy fix; there is not going to be an easy answer. But what happens at the end of the year when we have suspended the payments and people have taken that money home and they are still in a poor fiscal position, then what? Government does not have a pot of gold that they can just go out and dump the coins out every day. And there a lot of people who actually do not understand the mechanics of gover nment, and [they] believe that government does actua lly have that gold pot. And they do not. We also have to look at the long- term impact on the government purse as we try to facilitate assistance for the people of this country. I support the legislation because it is som ething that we have to do now. It is not something that I would like to do, and I would caution, as MP Renee Ming has stated, anybody that is going to take advantage of this to ensure that they understand all of the legislation —the terms, the impact that it will have on them in the long term —and think long and hard about whether or not it is something that they want to do. If people can get by without having to utilise their extra money for their pension, then I would encourage them to do so. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member. Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak? None? Minister, would you like to wrap up and take us to Committee? [Pause]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMinister? Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Yes, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerGo ahead. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker, let me wrap up by offering some comments and answering some of the questions that have been posed by Honourable Members. I would like to start by saying that the situation that we find ourselves in is not one of our making. …
Go ahead.
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker, let me wrap up by offering some comments and answering some of the questions that have been posed by Honourable Members. I would like to start by saying that the situation that we find ourselves in is not one of our making. We are the victims, as is the rest of the world, of the glo bal pandemic. In trying to tie the unfortunate reality of a global pandemic with other economic factors in our community is unfortunat e. If I spent my time sitting around saying, I wished it didn’t happen, I would have wished not to have borrowed $200 million to bail out investors on Morgan’s Point because of the Government’s obligations to do that. The Lord knows that had I had $200 million available to me at this point in time I could be using it to provide relief to businesses and to Berm udians instead of having to figure out how they can tap into their pensions in order to sustain themselves because the Government has limited borrowi ng capacity. So I am not going to spend a whole lot of time going back and looking backwards and starting doing but “w hat if ” happened. We are where we are. What we are trying to do now is find ways to providing relief without busting the budget any further than it already has been. Now, there were a number of questions that were asked with respect to what happens if an em-ployee or an employer does not make a contribution. Employers are obliged to make contributions unless the employee opts out. If the employee says [he] wants to continue making the contribution, the employer is obligated by law to make that contribution. Inasmuch as there is a meeting of the minds, where employee and employer both want to suspend the contribution, then it can be suspende d. Otherwise, employers are required to make it. With respect to the question around why a review since the scheme seems to be working well, my answer to that question, when I get asked about change, is generally this one: The abacus still works. We now have electronic ones. They are called computers and smartphones. So, change necessarily need not be a bad thing. And I always take the view that we should test things regularly to see if they are operating at their best, or if there can be improv ements. We have spoken before about the need for comprehensive review of our existing pension legisl ation. It has been mentioned in this House on prior oc-casions. The fact that we are in a pandemic has cer-tainly slowed down the pace of work on that initiative. But it is still a goal of mine to have a comprehensive 4266 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly review done because the funds, both of them, the Contributory Pension Fund [CPF] and the Public Service Superannuation Fund [PSSF] currently are underfunded. So, there is a higher number of liabilities than there are assets today. And unless we take actions to fix that problem, we are going to have bigger ones down the road. What does reform look like? Reform looks like calling in some experts and having them give us an assessment of what we do, whether it is appropriate or if there are other actions that can be taken to strengthen the fund, and we are going to take that work with some folks who are going to advise us accordingly and we will adopt a plan for the way forward and go about making reforms in or der to shore up the fund. Currently, contributions are made on a flat - rate basis. So, everyone who works is obliged to contribute $35.92 per week to the fund, and that is matched mandatorily by their employer. We had mentioned previously in this House of Assembly that we would look at introducing a more progressive scheme in terms of making payments into the fund that would look like a fixed percentage of your income, as opposed to a flat dollar rate per month. That idea needs to be fleshed out. The exper ts need to come in and give us their advice around on how it would look, how it would work. But that could be a strategy in shoring up the fund and improving the underfunded nature of the CPF. One MP asked the question about what ha ppens upon retirement i f people elect to suspend their contributions. The short answer is that their benefit will be smaller, because they have contributed less and their contributions will have less time to earn a return by being invested. So inasmuch as folks decide to suspend their contributions today in order to benefit from the cash flow improvement, they will see a d ecline, a potential decline, in the size of the benefit that they would take upon their retirement. If someone is already being paid from the fund who has already retired, their monthly benefits will not be impacted by the suspension of contribu-tions that is being contemplated with this legislation today. Mr. Speaker, I think I have answered all the questions that were asked. With that being said, I move that the Bill be committed.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Minister. The Minister has moved that the Bill will now be committed and the Deputy Speaker will take us into Committee. Deputy Speaker. Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. House in Commi ttee at 5:36 pm [Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr., Chairman] COMMITTEE ON BILL …
The ChairmanChairmanHonourable Members, we are now in Committee of the whole [House] for the consideration of the Bill entitled the Contributory Pensions Temporary Amendment Act 2020 . Minister , you have the floor. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This Bill seeks to make temporary amendments to the requirements …
Honourable Members, we are now in Committee of the whole [House] for the consideration of the Bill entitled the Contributory Pensions Temporary Amendment Act 2020 . Minister , you have the floor.
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This Bill seeks to make temporary amendments to the requirements of the Contributory Pensions Act 1970 to allow for employe es, employers, and self -employed persons to suspend payment of their contributions for the whole of the suspension p eriod. Mr. Chairman, I move clauses 1 through 5.
The ChairmanChairmanContinue. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Clause 1 (Citation) is self - explanatory. Clause 2 (Interpretation) provides definitions for certain expressions used in the Bill. Clause 3 provides that this Bill will be construed as one with the p rincipal Act. Accordingly, def initions used in the principal Act (such as …
Continue.
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Clause 1 (Citation) is self - explanatory. Clause 2 (Interpretation) provides definitions for certain expressions used in the Bill. Clause 3 provides that this Bill will be construed as one with the p rincipal Act. Accordingly, def initions used in the principal Act (such as employed person, employer, and self -employed person) apply with respect to this Bill. It also provides that this Bill “trumps” anything to the contrary in the principal Act or any ot her legislation, and any contract or agreement. Clause 4 provides for an employee to suspend payment of his contributions, with the agreement of his employer, and for an employee who decides to do so to notify his employer in writing. Clause 5 provides that an employer may suspend payment of his contributions in respect of an employee, with the agreement of the employee. The employer who decides to do so must notify the Director of the Department of Social Insurance in writing. Clause 5 also provides that s ection 4(2) and 4(7) and section 30(2) of the principal Act does not apply to an employer where an employee has decided to suspend payment of his contributions.
The ChairmanChairmanThank you, Minister. Are there any further speakers? There appear to be none. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Mr. Chairman. [Crosstalk; Feedback]
The ChairmanChairmanOkay. Mrs. Gordon- Pamplin. Bermuda House of Assembly Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Mr. Chairman.
The ChairmanChairmanYes. Continue Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Sorry. The micr ophone was getti ng . . . it is acting a little slow today. Thank you, sir. The questions that we had for the most part were answered by the Minister during the regular debate. But I did have a …
Yes. Continue Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Sorry. The micr ophone was getti ng . . . it is acting a little slow today. Thank you, sir. The questions that we had for the most part were answered by the Minister during the regular debate. But I did have a question in terms of . . . let me just find the clause. It is the one in respect of requiring the employee and requiring the writing to be given, the notice. Let’s see . . . I just have to find it. Just give me a second; I have to work through the tablet here. So, if the employer says that he is going to suspend the contributions —
The ChairmanChairmanWhat clause are you speaking to, Member? Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: I apologise. This is clause 8.
The ChairmanChairmanWe are doing clauses 1 through 5 right now. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Oh, I’m sorry. I am sorry. I am sorry. Sorry. Then I have no questions on 1 through 5.
The ChairmanChairmanAny other speakers on clauses 1 through 5? Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Yes, Mr. Chairman.
The ChairmanChairmanPardon, I can’t hear you. Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Mr. Chairman, yes.
The ChairmanChairmanContinue, Member. Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Mr. Chairman, a question to the Honourable Minister on [clause] 5 . . .
The ChairmanChairmanContinue. Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: I will. In the case where an employer pays all or part of an employee’s contribution, the employer may suspend these contributions in respect of the suspension period with the agreement of the employee. The question to the Honourable Mi nister, If the employer is …
Continue. Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: I will. In the case where an employer pays all or part of an employee’s contribution, the employer may suspend these contributions in respect of the suspension period with the agreement of the employee. The question to the Honourable Mi nister, If the employer is paying all of the pension, what is the need for the agreement by the employee to continue payment?
The ChairmanChairmanMinister. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Chairman, just give me one moment. I am reviewing the section in which the Honourable Member has posed the question.
The ChairmanChairman[Clause] 5(2). [Pause] Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Chairman, we have had discussions on changes to the voluntary or mandatory contributions to the Contributory Pension Fund in both the CPF [Contributory Pension Fund] and the private fund. I am aware of the rule about reflecting on prior debates, but I …
[Clause] 5(2).
[Pause]
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Chairman, we have had discussions on changes to the voluntary or mandatory contributions to the Contributory Pension Fund in both the CPF [Contributory Pension Fund] and the private fund. I am aware of the rule about reflecting on prior debates, but I ask your indulgence for a moment while I try to make a point here.
The ChairmanChairmanThat’s fine. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: There was a concern raised in a prior debate by the former Attorney General around the constitutionality of suspending som eone’s right to the benefit. I draw a reference to that prior debate only to make a point that the same would apply here …
That’s fine.
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: There was a concern raised in a prior debate by the former Attorney General around the constitutionality of suspending som eone’s right to the benefit. I draw a reference to that prior debate only to make a point that the same would apply here inasmuch as an employer is . . . whether they pay it all themselves or an employee pays part of it, is entitled to a benefit. And if an employee i s going to not receive that benefit, that employee has the op-tion to elect not to receive it. It cannot be taken away without their consent by their employer.
The ChairmanChairmanAny further speakers? Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Yes, Mr. Chairman, just as a foll ow up to that.
The ChairmanChairmanMm-hmm. Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: I understand the Minister’s explanation. So, in that case if an employer, as some employers do, they pay the whole social . . . the contributory pension here. In this case, if the employer pays the pension, and the employee decides that they do not …
Mm-hmm.
Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: I understand the Minister’s explanation. So, in that case if an employer, as some employers do, they pay the whole social . . . the contributory pension here. In this case, if the employer pays the pension, and the employee decides that they do not want it suspended, then will the employer have the right to say, That’s fine, then. We will not pay your portion of it and it’s up to you now to pay your portion?
The ChairmanChairmanMinister. Hon. Mich ael H. Dunkley: Sorry. To carry that point a little further, Mr. Chairman, because—
The ChairmanChairmanI’m sorry, continue. Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: —if I am an employee and an employer is paying my contributory pension, I would [politely] say, No, I want you to keep paying it, because I will not be getting the benefit of the $35.92 coming back to me every week, but …
I’m sorry, continue.
Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: —if I am an employee and an employer is paying my contributory pension, I would [politely] say, No, I want you to keep paying it, because I will not be getting the benefit of the $35.92 coming back to me every week, but I would [INAUD IBLE] to the employer who will get the benefit for that. 4268 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly The Chairman: Mm-hmm.
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Chairman, I think the Honourable Member has answered his own question, but I will give it another go. So inasmuch as the employer is paying the contribution for the employee and paying for themselves as well —so the employer is paying the entire $71.00, approximately —that is a benefit that that employer has given to their employee. To withdraw that benefit would require the consent of the employee. Now, on a common- sense basis, if I am an employee whose employer is paying the benefit for me, I would never ask them to not do i t. Hon. Michael H. Dunkley : [INAUDIBLE ] Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: So you would not suspend the benefit? So the employer would be obliged to con-tinue making payments. Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Now, how does that help an employer who is in difficulty?
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: It wouldn’t, unless they could convince their employee to agree to suspend the payment. And depending upon the relationship where if there is transparency the employer would make the case to the employee of the difficulty that they are facing and that may convince the employee to suspend the benefit. But there needs to be a conversation that happens between the employee and the employer, and the employee needs to consent to it.
Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: That is correct. What we do not want to happen is we do not want employers removing that benefit going forward.
The ChairmanChairmanAltogether. Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Yes.
The ChairmanChairmanMm-hmm. Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Which potentially, could happen. [Crosstalk; Feedback] Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: The legislation is crafted in a way that the consent of the employee is required before the employer can suspend making contribu-tions. Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: I understand that. I see that in the legislation. …
Mm-hmm. Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Which potentially, could happen.
[Crosstalk; Feedback]
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: The legislation is crafted in a way that the consent of the employee is required before the employer can suspend making contribu-tions.
Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: I understand that. I see that in the legislation. But putting aside the l egislation, if the legislation is as such, and you have explained that, so moving on from there, because the employer will have to continue to make the payment if they ca n-not come to an agreement with an employee, then there will probably be some push by employers who are paying all the pension in the future years to take some of that benefit away for future employees so they do not caught on the hook like this again.
[Inaudible ]
Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: That is the point.
The ChairmanChairmanAre there any f urther questions? Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: I just wanted to clarify, Mr. Chairman, if I may, my earlier intervention when I said I was speaking to clause 8. In fact, it was clause 5, but my questions that I had have in fact been answered …
Are there any f urther questions?
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: I just wanted to clarify, Mr. Chairman, if I may, my earlier intervention when I said I was speaking to clause 8. In fact, it was clause 5, but my questions that I had have in fact been answered by the ex change between the Minister and my honourable colleague. Thank you.
The ChairmanChairmanOkay. Are there any further speakers on clauses 1 through 5? There appear to be none. Minister, do you want to move clauses 1 through 5? Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Chairman, I move that clauses 1 through 5 be approved.
The ChairmanChairmanIt has been moved that clauses 1 through 5 be approved. Are there any objections to that? There appear to be none. Approved. [Motion carried: Clauses 1 through 5 passed.] The Chai rman: Continue, Minister. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Chairman, I move clauses 6 through 9.
The ChairmanChairmanContinue. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Claus e 6 provides for a self-employed person to suspend payment of his contributions, and to notify the Direc tor of the Department of Social Insurance in writing if he decides to do so. Clause 7 provides for an employer to suspend payment of contributions …
Continue. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Claus e 6 provides for a self-employed person to suspend payment of his contributions, and to notify the Direc tor of the Department of Social Insurance in writing if he decides to do so. Clause 7 provides for an employer to suspend payment of contributions for the suspension period, whether or not he has outstanding contributions due and in arrears, or employee contributions deducted but not paid to the Department of Social Insurance. However, the employer remains liable during the suspension period for any outstanding contributions or unpaid employee contributions arising before the suspension period. Clause 8 est ablishes an offence if an emplo yer continues to deduct contributions from an emplo yBermuda House of Assembly ee’s wages, salary or other remuneration when the employee has given notice under section 4(2) that he has decided to suspend payment of his contributions. Clause 9 provides that an employee may make up deficiencies in his record, if he wishes to do so, after the suspension period has ended. Clause 9 clarifies that certain provisions, relating to the principal Act, are not affected by this Bill.
The ChairmanChairmanAre there any f urther speakers to clauses 6 through 9? Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Yes, Mr. Chai rman.
The ChairmanChairmanContinue, Ms. Gordon- Pamplin. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you. Just referring to clause 9, the Minister basically confirmed that if you do not make up the payments that have been suspended during this period, that you would get a diminished return at the end of your . . …
Continue, Ms. Gordon- Pamplin. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you. Just referring to clause 9, the Minister basically confirmed that if you do not make up the payments that have been suspended during this period, that you would get a diminished return at the end of your . . . well, at the time that you retire. The question is (and I am not sure that I saw it under the regulations), What is the procedure by which the person is informed as to what would be r equired to make up the contributions? In other words, is there a formula, is there a timeframe within which they need to make up that difference? Or is that just make it up before you turn 65? What would happen . . . or [what is] the person who has had the suspension now required to do to make up that difference? And does he make up the difference for himself only, or for hi mself and his employer’s share?
The ChairmanChairmanMinister. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Chairman, the employee would have to contact the Department of S ocial Insurance to get a sense of how they would go about making up contributions should they wish to do so. With respect to would the employer be obliged to match those c …
Minister.
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Chairman, the employee would have to contact the Department of S ocial Insurance to get a sense of how they would go about making up contributions should they wish to do so. With respect to would the employer be obliged to match those c ontributions, I would need to take technical advice, and I am waiting for my technical officers to give me advice on that. My thinking is that the answer to that is no, because the employee has initially agreed to a suspension. If they choose at some later date to voluntarily contribute to their fund, my sense is that this is on them and that they had foregone through the suspension the employers matching contribution. I am waiting for confirmation of that through my technical officers.
Hon. Patricia J. G ordon -Pamplin: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. While he is waiting on that confirmation, will he also get confirmation from the technical officers that the failure to put money in, or to make up that difference by the employer, will also impact the amount that this employee will get as his final pa yment out, a benefit that he will get? And can the employee make up what the employer does not put in and still be eligible for the maximum amount of benefit upon retirement?
The ChairmanChairmanMinister. Hon. Curtis L. D ickinson: Mr. Chairman, I am just waiting for the advice.
The ChairmanChairmanOkay. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: I can confirm that the employee has to make contact with the Department of Social Insurance with respect to voluntary contrib utions. I am also advis ed, Mr. Chairman, that inasmuch as a person misses 52 contributions, or one year of contributions, there is very …
Okay.
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: I can confirm that the employee has to make contact with the Department of Social Insurance with respect to voluntary contrib utions. I am also advis ed, Mr. Chairman, that inasmuch as a person misses 52 contributions, or one year of contributions, there is very low likelihood that that would make a difference in the benefit that they would receive at retirement. I am still awaiting a response to the question as to whether a person can make contributions that their employer would have made but did not because of an agreement to suspend.
[Pause]
The ChairmanChairmanDo you want to continue, and get that information to the Members afterwards? [Crosstalk; Fe edback] Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: I agree to take the conversation offline in the interest of not wasting ev erybody’s time sitting here and waiting.
The ChairmanChairmanOkay. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: I think it is i mportant for the edification of the public —not so much for mine, but for the edification of the public —to u nderstand what their options are in this respect. So, if the Minister has the information before close of …
Okay.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: I think it is i mportant for the edification of the public —not so much for mine, but for the edification of the public —to u nderstand what their options are in this respect. So, if the Minister has the information before close of bus iness today and would be permitted to interject and give us that information, I believe it would be useful.
The ChairmanChairmanMost certainly. Most certainly. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you.
The ChairmanChairmanAre there any further speakers on clauses 6 through 9? Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Chairman, I move that clauses 6 through 9 be approved. 4270 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly The Chairman: It has been moved that clauses 6 through 9 be approved. Are …
Are there any further speakers on clauses 6 through 9?
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Chairman, I move that clauses 6 through 9 be approved.
4270 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly The Chairman: It has been moved that clauses 6 through 9 be approved. Are there any objections to that? There appear to be none. Approved.
[Motion carried: Clauses 6 through 9 passed.]
The ChairmanChairmanDo you want to m ove the preamble? Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Chairman, I move the preamble be approved.
The ChairmanChairmanIt has been moved that the preamble be approved. Are there any objections to that? There appear to be none. Approved. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Chairman, I move that the Bill be reported to the House as printed.
The ChairmanChairmanIt has moved that the Bill be reported to the House as printed. Are there any objections to that? There appear to be none. Approved. The Bill will be reported to the House as printed. Thank you, Minister. Thank you, Members. [Motion carried: The Contributory Pensions Temp orary Amendment Act …
It has moved that the Bill be reported to the House as printed. Are there any objections to that? There appear to be none. Approved. The Bill will be reported to the House as printed. Thank you, Minister. Thank you, Members.
[Motion carried: The Contributory Pensions Temp orary Amendment Act 2020 was considered by a Committee of the whole House and passed without amendment.]
House resumed at 5:53 pm
[Hon. Dennis P. Li ster, Jr., Speaker, in the Chair]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Deputy. The Bill entitled the Contributory Pensions Temporary Amendment Act 2020 has been reported to the House as printed. Are there any objections to that? [There are] no objections. The Bill has been reported and accepted as printed. That brings that matter to a close and we will …
Thank you, Deputy. The Bill entitled the Contributory Pensions Temporary Amendment Act 2020 has been reported to the House as printed. Are there any objections to that? [There are] no objections. The Bill has been reported and accepted as printed. That brings that matter to a close and we will now move on to the next item on the Order Paper, which is the National Pension Scheme (Occupational Pensions) Temporary Amendment Act 2020, again, in the name of the Minister of Finance. Minister. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker, I move that the Bill entitled the National Pension Scheme (Occ upational Pensions) Temporary Amendment Act 2020 be now read the second time.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAre there any objections? No objections. Continue, Minister BILL SECOND READING NATIONAL PENSION SCHEME (OCCUPATIONAL PENSIONS) TEMPORARY AMENDMENT ACT 2020 Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to provide for the consideration of this Honourable House the Bill entitled the National Pension Scheme (Occupational Pensions) Temporary Amendment Act …
Are there any objections? No objections. Continue, Minister
BILL
SECOND READING
NATIONAL PENSION SCHEME (OCCUPATIONAL PENSIONS) TEMPORARY AMENDMENT ACT 2020
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to provide for the consideration of this Honourable House the Bill entitled the National Pension Scheme (Occupational Pensions) Temporary Amendment Act 2020. Mr. Speaker, Honourable Members will be aware that the National Pension Scheme (Occupational Pensions) Act 1998 provides for the establis hment, administration and regulation of private sector occupational pension plans in Bermuda. The principal Act became fully operational on the 1st of January 2000. Over the years a number of amendments to that Act and regulations have been introduced to provide for various matters. One of the more important changes related to changing financial hardship withdrawals for members for eligible mortgage arrears, rental arrears, educ ational expenses, uncovered medical expenses and funeral expenses. Mr. Speaker, since inception of the hardship refunds in 2010, as of the 22nd of May 2020, approximately $33.4 million in financial hardship pa yments have been approved. Let me take this opportunity to provide more specific details on these applications, as follows: • financial hardship applications , the total appl ications received since August 2010, the start date, was 3,412 ; • approved applications, 2 ,837; • declined applications, 411; • applications pending and/or withdrawn, 164; In terms of application approval types , • eligible educational expenses were 1,083; • imminent threat of loss of principal residence, 459; • imminent eviction from home for rental ar-rears, 1,108; and • eligible medical expenses; 187. Mr. Speaker, it is pleasing to know that the hardship withdrawal provisions under the Act have assisted many families over the years and clearly va lidates the benefit of this social policy initiative. It should also be noted that the $33.4 million withdra wBermuda House of Assembly als since inception of thes e provisions only represents approximately 0.81 per cent of the $4.1 billion in plan assets at the end of December 2019. The intent of the legislation is for persons to use the hardship withdrawals under the National Pension Scheme as the very last recourse. The statistics provided verification that this policy objective is being met. Honourable Members will be aware that a s eries of recent changes to the Act provide for greater access by plan members to their pension funds as a result of increased finan cial hardships created by COVID -19. In particular, National Pension Scheme legislation now provides plan members, subject to satisfying certain criteria, with two additional types of refunds; namely, providing members up to a $12,000 refund for those under the age of 65, and providing members at the commencement of their retirements at age 65 or older with the option of a one- time lump sum withdrawal of up to 25 per cent of the value in their pension accounts. Mr. Speaker, since the announcement of the refund provisions on the 1 st of June 2020, as at the 16th of June 2020, approximately $11.8 million in combined refund applications have been approved. The breakdown on these applications is as follows: • With respect to COVID -19 withdrawals, it is a $12,000 wi thdrawal . • Total applications received, 4,809. • Total number approved so far, 972. • Total value of applications approved, $10,955,501. • With respect to the lump sum withdrawals (and those are the cases where up to 25 per cent of pension account value can be taken out in a lump sum at retirement), total applic ations received, 40. • Total number approved, 38. • Total value of applications approved, $857,292. Mr. Speaker, COVID -19 has had a significant impact on economic activity and social conditions in Bermuda. In addition to these pension refunds, Government introduced a temporary unemployment benefit for employees who were laid off as a result of the pandemic. Government recognises that employers and employees have been and will continue to suffer financially as a result of the reduced economic activity caused by the pandemic. By allowing for a temporary suspension of statutory pension contributions the Government is seeking to provide further support to employers and employees —for employees, through increased take home pay and for employers through lower operating costs. Mr. Speaker, the Government is mindful of the long-term implications that a suspension of contributions can have on a plan member’s retirement savings. However, this concern must be balanced agains t the immediate and urgent needs in our community that has resulted from this unexpected crisis. Mr. Speaker, the proposed Bill follows the same approach that was introduced under the Natio nal Pension Scheme ( Occupational Pensions) Temporary Amendment Act 2012 , which also provided for t he voluntary suspension of required pension contribu-tions under the principal Act. In particular, this Bill permits both the plan member and their employer, subject to meeting certain conditions, to voluntarily agree to suspend their required pension contr ibutions in the commencement of this Act up to the 30 th of June 2021. Mr. Speaker, the proposed amendments contained in this Bill are timely and necessary and are an important part of the Government’s overall COVID -19 financial relief programme for both employees and employers. I look forward to discussing them with Honourable Members. Mr. Speaker, in closing, I would like to thank all of those persons within the Pension Commission, the Attorney General’s Chambers and the Ministry of Finance who have assi sted with the development of this Bill. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Minister. Does any other Member wish to speak? Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Yes, thank you,
Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerHonourable Member Gordon- Pamplin, you have the floor. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Mr. Speaker, I am going to start where the Minister left off, and that is his statement that this Bill that we have before us today is a part of the Government’s COVID -19 financial relief programme. …
Honourable Member Gordon- Pamplin, you have the floor. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Mr. Speaker, I am going to start where the Minister left off, and that is his statement that this Bill that we have before us today is a part of the Government’s COVID -19 financial relief programme. I think that that might be a misstatement, because what this actually is doing is . . . this is a reduction of the people who have worked for the money, who have their money in their pension schemes. They will be taking money out of their own pension scheme. It may be the Government’s attitude that they are allowing people access to their money, but let us not for one second fool ourselves by saying that this is part of the Government’s COVID -19 financial relief programme. This is not a Government injection of funds; this is the ability for people to not put into their own pension scheme the money for which they have worked and for which the legislation requires that there is a contributory part of it coming from both themselves and from the employers. So I just w anted to make sure that we have the nomenclature correct before—
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker, a point of order, please. 4272 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly The Speaker: Point of order. I will take your point of order, Minister.
POINT OF ORDER [Misleading]
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinso n: Mr. Speaker, I believe the Honourable Member is unintentionally misleading the House. The reality is that there is a statutory requir ement for persons who are employed to contribute to their pension plans. The Government is relaxing that statutory obligation to allow persons to have more money in their pockets. It is part of a strategy that the Government has put into place to ease the burdens that COVID -19 has brought onto this country. To suggest somehow that this is not the Go vernment doing what the Government is supposed to do in these kinds of times is unfortunate and just not true.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, [Minister] . Member, you can have the floor. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it was just the words “the Go vernment’s COVID -19 financial relief programme.” If the Minister had said the “strategy,” then I would have accepted it. But “the Government’s …
Thank you, [Minister] . Member, you can have the floor. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it was just the words “the Go vernment’s COVID -19 financial relief programme.” If the Minister had said the “strategy,” then I would have accepted it. But “the Government’s COVID -19 financial relief programme” just does not seem to jive with what we are actually doing. I do not have to be pedantic about the nomenclature. It is just that that does not go well with me. But let me talk about this occupational pe nsions, Mr. Speaker, and to say that the suspension of contributions to pension has always been a sore topic. I believe that you know my dispensation towards this. It has not changed. I believe that I have been co nsistent. Because the one thing that we had seen over time in particular, is this Government, in various iter ations thereof, speaking out on the one hand bemoaning the fac t that black people in particular have not had the historic opportunities for retirement that . . . that . . . they have not had that parity. And yet, on the other hand, now we are saying that it is okay for them to not deposit into their account. Therefor e that ensures that they will not have economic parity as time goes on. Now, I recognise that we have an immediate crisis, and it is a response to that immediate crisis to ensure that people have more money in their pockets at the moment, that they have m ore money to spend. That is what is being addressed by this legislation. But with that said, Mr. Speaker, I want to say that we have from the beginning of this crisis, as a party, as an Opposition, been tremendously suppor tive of the Government and their policies during this pandemic. We swallowed it, Mr. Speaker, when there were misleading statements that we were being tested aggressively, when everybody knew that we did not have tests on Island at the time—we had insufficient supplies. We held hands with the Government when we knew that it was necessary to close our borders, Mr. Speaker, to ensure the safety of our people, not-withstanding the criticism by many in the public about the infringement of their freedoms. We spoke about that in the previous debat e that we just had. We supported, Mr. Speaker, most of the legi slation that we believed was in the best interest of the population, but we have been consistent in criticising the tampering with pensions because of the impact that it will have down the road. Now, we understand what is happening at the present time. I heard the Minister in response to the previous debate, and I am not reflecting but just wish to make a very brief reference thereto, when he said he does not want to be filing this away in the filing cabinet of woulda, coulda, shoulda , but I am going to say one more time, Mr. Speaker, that the failure to be able to do anything with our economy has been the rallying cry here inasmuch as people have not been able to have the money, they have not had anything extra to tuck away so that once this COVID -19 hit, then there was nothing that people had to fall back on. So, now we are in the situation where our only recourse is to allow them to further dissipate the value of what they might otherwise ha ve had for their oldage time. Because now the crises we have has created the challenge whereby it is necessary for people to have money to spend today. Mr. Speaker, a growth in the economy would have provided extra money in people’s pockets so that they would not have the dire circumstance that we have now, whereby the money that they will now rely on will not have the benefit of growth, so that when they do retire they will not have the type of as-sets that they were perhaps hoping to have. No. Nobody ex pected, wanted, invited or welcomed COVID -19, Mr. Speaker. But it is a bigger and deeper problem than just whether in fact COVID -19 hit us, and it goes back to the fact that we have not done anything to grow the economy. People do not have extra money to f all back on. So when we start talking about black people and blacks in particular being hard done by, Mr. Speaker, you will find that maybe there are some people who will not have to suspend pa yments of their pension funds, or their occupational pension funds. And I hope they do not. Mr. Speaker, we allowed in a previous legisl ation that people can take money out, either the $12,000 . . . the Minister has just given us the details in terms of the circumstances under which people have been able to take out t heir money. And we u nderstand that when you look at the type of withdrawals that have been made—money —it isn’t so much the withdrawals, but the applications that have been made, Mr. Speaker. There very clearly are challenges
Bermuda House of Assembly that people are having financially. But there was not hing for them to fall back on. Albeit that COVID -19 has impacted us this significantly in a three- month period of time, but just imagine what would have happened if over the last three years in particular there was something that assisted in the growth of our economy that there would have been more money available. Mr. Speaker, what causes me to lament is the idea that people will get to the end of their working life and into their retirement environment and they will not have. And who is going to most suffer, Mr. Speaker? It is going to be our black people who are going to suffer most, because it is our black people who for the most part—and I am not saying exclusively, but for the most part it is those. I would be very curious to kno w, of the applications that have come through, Mr. Speaker, how that breaks down in terms of race. That would be very interesting to find out, Mr. Speaker. Have we gotten the majority of people who have made the application? Is it balanced across the board? Is it indicative of the ratio and the d emographics that we have in this country? Or, are we saying . . . are we recognising that our black people are so hard done by that these are the ones who are having to dig into their pension schemes to take money out and now not put additional money in? I do not know how this can make anybody feel good, Mr. Speaker. I am not, though, going to say that I would not support this legislation because I recognise that people need money now. They have to eat today. They have to pay their rent today. And, clearly, to say that the money is not going to be there when you get to 65, no, it is not going to be there. It is not going to be there to grow. But to the extent that an ybody can afford to not . . . I mean, even if it m eans making a little bit of extra stretch [ INAUDIBLE] Mr . Speaker, it is far better knowing that that extra money is there in your account so that it can continue to multiply as time goes on. Mr. Speaker, this is distressing to me. It is di stressing. And I say that from the perspective of having worked an entire working career, perhaps from the time I was 15, 16 years old and retiring at the age of 68, and knowing that at the end of that period of time I had put in and put in and put in to the extent that I was required to do so from the time we brought in the [ National Pension Scheme (Occupational Pensions) Act 1998] . . . in fact, I believe the Minister indicated that it took effect from the year 2000. So certainly, for those last 20 years there was a for ced savings to which people had, over that 20- year period of time, to rely on when they hit their retirement age. Now what this is saying is that those people who have yet to reach their retirement age are not going to have the benefit of having that extr a money in their account, not going to have the benefit of that extra growth, and I can tell you, Mr. Speaker, almost dollars to doughnuts, I will put a wager that those are majority black people. That is who this is going to i mpact. Mr. Speaker, the Mini ster indicated that with some of the applications that have been made, there have been hardship applications. And we understand that, and appreciate the fact that over time things have not been as wonderful as they ought to have been and that people have had the necessity to draw down in respect of mortgages, funerals, medical, education (and there may be one other that I have overlooked). But with those applications, with those dra wdowns that were required for financial hardships, now on top of that we say ing, But also don’t put money in. I will guarantee, Mr. Speaker, that the majority of people who are not now in a position to put money in, are perhaps some of those same people who had to take money out because of the financial hardships that they faced. So they are having a double whammy. So they are dissipating on a daily basis the money to which they would have available for their retir ement period of time. All I can say, Mr. Speaker, is if people can afford to continue to contribute, then please do so. Be mindful before you withdraw money. But do not starve; do not find yourself in a situation where you are going to be put out on the street because you cannot pay your rent but, by the same token, you have got money sitting in your pension account. That clearly would be foolhardy. But it goes back to the lack of money that people have, not just because of the hardships that exist because of COVID -19, it goes back to the failure to build and for us to have som ething extra to fall back on. Mr. Speaker, we all have to take responsibility for this. We are failing in this respect. And I would submit that the Executive is failing in their collective responsibility for trying to ensure that there is some level of growth in their policies which they would have articulated and put in place that would have brought us to this situation where some of our people are ha ving a double whammy. Mr. Speaker, when I say a “double whammy,” that is exactly what it is. It is people not having had the ability to get, having to draw down on what they would normally have had to fall back on, now that is gone (to a certain extent) and now not putting in any more to help to build that back up. Mr. Speaker, this is not the sort of individual who says, you know, I do not want you to be able to live. This is something that pains me to the core, Mr. Speaker, because historica lly most of the people, the middle class, the upper class, they had their ways of being able to set aside money for their own retirement, to set aside money for their comfort. But when we were forced as a people to say, The Government has decided (I believe the legi slation came in 1998, albeit, effective in 2000) to say to people, You are required legally to set money aside. And while some people may have railed at tha t at the time, Mr. Speaker, in retrospect . . . sometimes they 4274 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly say Hindsight is 20/20 vision. In retrospect, it has put us in a situation whereby we are not in such straitened circumstances at the date of retirement. Mr. Speaker, when the Minister indicated (and it is not in respect of this particular legislation, but he mentioned it in his brief, and I am just going to refer to it very briefly) that 4,809 applications were made in respect of the $12,000 drawdown, [and] 972 have been approved and I believe he said there was a total of $10 million, or just about $11 million that had act ually been pulled out at that point in time. I think he said 4,809 applications. And with 972 applications having been approved, if I have got the numbers correct, then you hav e an awful lot of people still waiting for a dec ision. And that means that when that money is actually expended to them . . . if we paid our $10 million, just under $11 million, for 972 people, it would say to me that we have another nearly 4,000 people and there is no telling if we look . . . if we just did a mathematical exercise to figure out how much money will come out of those pension funds for use of expenditure today, for which people will not have . . . $10 million is an awful lot of money that could be left to build. But we have put our people in a position, Mr. Speaker, where we failed to give them something else to hold on to, something else to bolster their financial stability, and we find ourselves now in a situation where we do not have any choice but to say to people that we have to allow them to draw down on their pension and we have to allow them now not to put in. Mr. Speaker, when I say that pains my heart. It pains my heart because the majority of those peo-ple, I will guarantee you, as I said, dollars to dough-nuts, Mr. Speaker, the majority of those people are black. There are a significant number of people who will not feel it one way or the other. There are people who are going to be okay, I’m okay, Jack. And they can pull up their ladders. But there are a lot of us, Mr. Speaker, who do not have that luxury, who do not fall into that position. And that is where the pain comes. It is deeply painful to me to see that the very thing that we have criticised over time that we now have to enab le because the Government has not been able to get it together effectively and to put some growth in our community. Mr. Speaker, it is difficult for me to say an ything more on this matter because under most ci rcumstances I try to maintain a reasonable amount of decorum and control. This is one thing, Mr. Speaker, that can reduce me to tears, and I am very close to that. Thank you, sir.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member. Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak? No? No other Member? None ? Minister, would you like to wrap up and take us to Committee? Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I had mistakenly thought that this was going to be somewhat uncontentious. …
Thank you, Honourable Member. Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak? No? No other Member? None ? Minister, would you like to wrap up and take us to Committee?
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I had mistakenly thought that this was going to be somewhat uncontentious.
[Crosstalk; Feedback]
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Pity on me.
[Feedback] Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: And I just wanted to make sure that Honourable Members certainly understand that this is a case of setting aside dogma and embracing being pragmatic. No one understands the concepts of finance in this House of Assembly more than I do. I understand what compounding does. I understand what early savings does. I also understand that I am $2.7 billion in debt. And I cannot borrow ad nauseum to perpetuity because when I took this job we were saddled with debt. I could si t around and complain about the debt till the cows come home or I can get on with doing my job. My job is to try to find ways of providing relief to people in this time that we are dealing with a pandemic. I certainly do not want people taking money out of their pension funds, if they do not have to. But I certainly also do not want them going hungry. Inasmuch as the Government cannot go and borrow more money to provide relief, we have to find other ways to do that. I would encourage people that if they do not need to take money out of their pension funds, not to do it. I would also encourage them that if [they] have to take it out, when times get better add a little extra, because saving for your retirement is important. There is no rush to kind of try t o find ways of giving people back their money and then trying to package it as something other than what it is. We are in difficult times and the Government has to act and taking these actions in light of the circumstances is the smart thing to do. With that, Mr. Speaker, I move that the Bill be committed.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Minister. The Bill will now be committed. The Deputy Speaker will take us into Committee. Deputy Speaker. Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. House in Com mittee at 6:20 pm [Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr., Chairman] Bermuda House of Assembly COMMITTEE ON BILL NATIONAL PENSION …
The ChairmanChairmanHonourable Members, we are now in Committee of the whole [House] for further consider ation of the Bill entitled the National Pension Scheme (Occupational Pensions) Temporary Amendment Act 2020 . Minister , you have the floor. Hon. Curtis L. Dickin son: Mr. Chairman, this Bill seeks to make temporary amendments …
Honourable Members, we are now in Committee of the whole [House] for further consider ation of the Bill entitled the National Pension Scheme (Occupational Pensions) Temporary Amendment Act 2020 . Minister , you have the floor.
Hon. Curtis L. Dickin son: Mr. Chairman, this Bill seeks to make temporary amendments to the National Pension Scheme (Occupational Pensions) Act [1998] to allow for the suspension of employee and employer contributions in respect of the specified suspension period. Mr. Chairm an, I move clauses 1 through 5.
The ChairmanChairmanContinue, sir. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Clause 1 is self - explanatory. Clause 2 provides that this Bill will be construed as one with the principal Act. Therefore, definitions used in the principal Act apply equally in the proposed amendment. Furthermore, the provision of this Bill “trumps” anything to the …
Continue, sir.
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Clause 1 is self - explanatory. Clause 2 provides that this Bill will be construed as one with the principal Act. Therefore, definitions used in the principal Act apply equally in the proposed amendment. Furthermore, the provision of this Bill “trumps” anything to the contrary in the princ ipal Act or any other Act, and any pension plan or co ntract of employment. Clause 3 provides definitions for certain expressions used i n the Bill. Clause 4 applies to defined contribution pe nsion plans and provides for the suspension of contr ibutions by members and employers in respect of the suspension period. A member may suspend his contributions with the agreement of his employer. An employer may suspend his contributions with the agreement of the member and the collective bargaining agent (if the member is represented by a bargaining agent and the bargaining agreement addresses the pension plan). Furthermore, a member’s membership in the plan continues for the purposes of calculating the member’s pension benefit and for all other purposes, notwithstanding any suspension of contrib utions in respect of the suspension period. Clause 5 applies to defined benefit pension plans and provides that the employer may suspend all employer normal cost and employee contributions in respect of the suspension period, with the agreement of the collective bargaining agent (if the member is represented by a bargaining agent and the bargaining agreement addresses the pension plan). Furthermore, a member’s accrual of service and membership in the plan continues in respect of calculation of the me mber’s benefit and for all other purposes, notwithstanding any suspension of contributions in respect of the suspension period. The Chairman: Thank you, Minister. Are there any further speakers?
Mr. Scott Pearman[Clauses] 1 through 5. Thank you, so much, Mr. Chairman. Minister, my first question if you could turn please to page 2 of the Bill. At clause 3 on page 2, is the interpretation section. And there is a definition there for “suspension period.” And it says that it means …
[Clauses] 1 through 5. Thank you, so much, Mr. Chairman. Minister, my first question if you could turn please to page 2 of the Bill. At clause 3 on page 2, is the interpretation section. And there is a definition there for “suspension period.” And it says that it means the period beginning with the commencement date appointed under section 11 and ending on the 30 th of June 2021. Now, that terminology, “suspension period” is used in the clause below, clause 4, where we see at clause 4(2), “A member may suspend his contribution in respect of this suspension period, with the agreement,” et cetera. And if you turn over the page, and I know we are still on clauses 1 through 5, but just to point it out for completeness, the reference to the suspension period also appears two pages over on page 3 at the bottom at clause 7, where we see “suspension period” in the introductory paragraph to clause 7. So “suspension period” is dealt with tw ice, once under clause 4 and once under clause 7. And my question is actually a very simple one, but it was not clear from the Bill. And that is this: If there is agreement between the employee and the employer that there is to be a pension suspension in respect of the suspension period, is it for the whole of the suspension period or is it permissible to have the suspension in respect of only part of the suspension period— i.e., could an employer and employee agree to suspend for a lesser period than the suspension period? Thank you.
The ChairmanChairmanMinister. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Chairman, that is an excellent question. My initial reaction when I heard the question being asked was to refer the Member to clause 11, which we have not covered yet whi ch says a suspe nsion period starts when gazetted. But that is an …
Minister. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Chairman, that is an excellent question. My initial reaction when I heard the question being asked was to refer the Member to clause 11, which we have not covered yet whi ch says a suspe nsion period starts when gazetted. But that is an interesting construct that I had not contemplated, and I am waiting for a response from my technical officers. My suspicion would be that there needs to be agreement between the employer and employee with respect to the suspension. My sense is that the law as 4276 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly currently drafted, in my reading of it the suspension period starts when it starts and it ends when it ends. So, there is no opportunity for there to be a contraction of the suspension period, notwithstanding that the employer and the employee agree to such. But I will . . .
The ChairmanChairmanMm-hmm. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: I have now been correc ted, Mr. Chairman. I am advised that the suspension period can be for all or part if both empl oyer and employee agree.
Mr. Scott PearmanAnd again, I am going to stray slightly beyond clause 4 because I would like to just contrast something in clause 4 with something in clause 6 for the purposes of the question. In clause 4(3) (for those looking at the Bill, this is page 2 in the middle of …
And again, I am going to stray slightly beyond clause 4 because I would like to just contrast something in clause 4 with something in clause 6 for the purposes of the question. In clause 4(3) (for those looking at the Bill, this is page 2 in the middle of the Bill). Clause 4(3), says, “An employer may suspend his contributions as they relate to a member in respect of the suspension per iod, with the agreement of the member. ” And, again, I am not reflecting on the debate, just as the Minister was not reflecting on the debate when he opened, but we did have a big kerfuffle about pension suspensions several months back because, of course, it seemed to suggest at that time that you were not getting the consent of the employee, and for that reason there was a rise and report and it was looked at again. The question I have here is, at clause 4(3), to my mind reading that, it envisages that the employer and the employee will reach some sort of agreement about suspension. And if you contrast that, please, over the page on page 3 with clause 6 (in the middle of the page) under the heading “Notice to employer and administrator” and you look at what the steps are here, you see that clause 6(1) says, “ If a member decides to suspend his contributions ” (et cetera) . . . he “must give notice to his employ er, within the time per iod “ et cetera. And the next step in clause 6 is that the employer then turns around and gives notice to the administrator. So, I guess the question I have is primarily in respect to the agreement referred to in clause 4(3) on page 2, Is it envisaged that an employee will give notice to the employer and that will be enough? Or is it envisaged that this is an agreement between two di fferent parties and that the employer has some say here? I would just be grateful if the Honourable Mi nister could clarify which of those two things it is. Thank you.
The ChairmanChairmanMinister. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Chairman, the employee has to initiate this action. So there would need to be an agreement between the employee and the employer. The employee would need to be willing to suspend their contributions, and, as such, then the employer is then allowed to suspend …
Mr. Scott PearmanYes, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just to follow up from that. I appreciate the question posed is less likely, but what happens if the employee says yes and the employer says no, for whatever reason? Is there no agreement? Or can the employee effectively unilaterally have a suspension over the …
Yes, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just to follow up from that. I appreciate the question posed is less likely, but what happens if the employee says yes and the employer says no, for whatever reason? Is there no agreement? Or can the employee effectively unilaterally have a suspension over the objection of any employer? A gain, I appreciate that that is not a likely scenario.
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Without being flip, you are the lawyer; you would understand what constitutes an agreement. But I think the legislation provides for the employee to exercise the option. Inasmuch as the employee decides to either to suspend or not suspend, then the employer is duty -bound then to follow the employee’s lead.
Mr. Scott PearmanRight. So, really, it is a unilateral notice by the employee rather than an agreement between the employee and the employer. Do I understand you correctly, Minister? Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Well, the employee has to raise their hand and say, I want to suspend my contr ibution so that …
Right. So, really, it is a unilateral notice by the employee rather than an agreement between the employee and the employer. Do I understand you correctly, Minister?
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Well, the employee has to raise their hand and say, I want to suspend my contr ibution so that I can get the money myself. If the e mployee raises their hand, then the employer is duty - bound to do such. You cannot have a situation where the right of the employee, the benefit, is taken from them by their employer; therefore, the employee has to be the one initiating the action.
Mr. Scott PearmanSo, again, just in ter ms of the employer, is there really an agreement here, or is it really consent by the employee? Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: I am not sure if that is a distinction without a difference. I am just not sure if . . . [Pause]
Mr. Scott PearmanWell, I think you have answered the question and if there is a drafting error, I will leave it with you, Minister. But my next question would be on clause 6 and we are not there yet, I think. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Bermuda House of Assembly The Chairman: Are …
Well, I think you have answered the question and if there is a drafting error, I will leave it with you, Minister. But my next question would be on clause 6 and we are not there yet, I think. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Bermuda House of Assembly The Chairman: Are there any further questions on clauses 1 through 5? There appear to be none. Minister, do you want to move clauses 1 through 5?
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Chairman, I move that clauses 1 through 5 be approved.
The ChairmanChairmanIt has been moved that clauses 1 through 5 be approved. Are there any objections to that? There appear to be none. Approved. [Motion carried: Clauses 1 through 5 passed.]
The ChairmanChairmanContinue, Minister. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Chairman, I move clauses 6 through 11.
The ChairmanChairmanContinue. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Clause 6 requires a member of a defined contribution pension plan to give his employer notice if he decides to suspend contrib utions. The clause also requires the employer to give written notice to the plan administrator of any pr oposed suspension of contributions , …
Continue.
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Clause 6 requires a member of a defined contribution pension plan to give his employer notice if he decides to suspend contrib utions. The clause also requires the employer to give written notice to the plan administrator of any pr oposed suspension of contributions , for either a defined contribution or a defined benefit pension plan. Furthermore, sections 19 and 19(6 A) of the principal Act do not apply when a notice has been given to the plan administrator. Clause 7 prohibits the suspens ion of contributions by an employer if the employer is in arrears. Clause 8 clarifies that if a member continues to make contributions in respect of the suspension period these are not to be treated as voluntary [ contr ibutions ]. Clause 9 creates an offence if an employer, in relation to a defined contributions pension plan, co ntinues to deduct contributions from a member’s salary or wages when the member has given a notice of suspension of contributions under section 6(1). Clause 10 provides that members and employers who have already suspended 2 per cent of their contributions under the National Pension Scheme (Occupational Pensions) Temporary Amendment Act 2019 may suspend all contributions under this Act while this Act is in operation, and may resume the 2 per cent suspension of contributions under the 2019 Act thereafter. Clause 11 provides for the commencement of the Act by the Minister of Finance by notice published in the Gazette. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The ChairmanChairmanThank you, Minister. Are there any speakers?
Mr. Scott PearmanThank you, Mr. Chairman. Minister, in respect of clause 6, page 3 of the Bill, in the middle, clause 6(1) states “If a member decides to suspend his contributions under section 4(2), the member must give notice to his employer, ” (which is something we were talking about a moment …
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Minister, in respect of clause 6, page 3 of the Bill, in the middle, clause 6(1) states “If a member decides to suspend his contributions under section 4(2), the member must give notice to his employer, ” (which is something we were talking about a moment ago) “within the time period notified to him by his emplo yer.” In respect to that time period, I could not find any requirement about the time period. So, is that up to the employer just to decide whatever time period the employer wishes, or is there some guidance? Or is there a definition somewhere that I missed? Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: I would expect as in cases in the past, with respect to guidance on the implementation of these legislations and regulations, that the Pension Commission will provide such.
Mr. Scott PearmanThank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Further questions? The Chai rman: Continue.
Mr. Scott PearmanThank you, Mr. Chairman. Honourable Minister, again, in clause 6, if we look at clause 6, subsection (2), it says, “ An employer must give written notice to the administrator of a plan of any proposed suspension of cont ributions . . . .” The word “proposed” struck me as …
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Honourable Minister, again, in clause 6, if we look at clause 6, subsection (2), it says, “ An employer must give written notice to the administrator of a plan of any proposed suspension of cont ributions . . . .” The word “proposed” struck me as unusual because presumably by this point we have already had notice given by the employee to the employer, we have agreement, et cetera. Does the use of the word “proposed” suggest that it is open to the administrator to have the discretion to refuse? Or, is the intention that if the employee and the employer agree, that the administrator must comply?
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Chairman, I am going to [need to get] some advice from technical staff on that one.
The ChairmanChairmanYes, sir. Any further — Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: In regard to this question, are there any . . .
Mr. Scott PearmanThat is my final question. And if it is intended that the administrator should just comply rather than having s ome sort of discretionary ability to refuse the application, then I would just respectfully 4278 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly suggest that “proposed” should be …
That is my final question. And if it is intended that the administrator should just comply rather than having s ome sort of discretionary ability to refuse the application, then I would just respectfully 4278 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly suggest that “proposed” should be “agreed suspe nsion” rather than “proposed suspension.” Thank you, Honourable Minister, for answering those questions, and thank y ou, Mr. Chairman.
The ChairmanChairmanYou are welcome. Any further speakers? There appear to be none. Minister, you want to move those clauses? Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Chairman, thank you. I will take the Honourable Member’s suggestion with respect to clause 6(2) under advisement. And, with your permission, I would like to move clauses …
The ChairmanChairmanIt has been moved that clauses 6 through 11 be approved. Are there any objections to that? There appear to be none. Approved. [Motion carried: Clauses 6 through 11 passed.]
The ChairmanChairmanWould you move the preamble, Mini ster? Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Chairman, I move that the preamble be approved.
The ChairmanChairmanIt has been moved that the preamble be approved. Are there any objec tions to that? There appear to be none. Approved. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Chairman, I move that the Bill be reported to the House as printed.
The ChairmanChairmanIt has been moved that the Bill be reported to the House as printed. Are there any objecti ons to that? There appear to be none. Approved. The Bill will be reported to the House as printed. Thank you, Minister and MPs. [Motion carried: The National Pension Scheme (O ccupational …
It has been moved that the Bill be reported to the House as printed. Are there any objecti ons to that? There appear to be none. Approved. The Bill will be reported to the House as printed. Thank you, Minister and MPs.
[Motion carried: The National Pension Scheme (O ccupational Pensions) Temporary Amendment Act 2020 was considered by a Commit tee of the whole House and passed without amendment.]
House resumed at 6:37 pm
[Hon. Dennis P. Lister, Jr., Speaker, in the Chair]
REPORT OF COMMITTEE NATIONAL PENSION SCHEME (OCCUPATIONAL PENSIONS) TEMPORARY AMENDMENT ACT 2020
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Deputy. The Bill entitled the National Pension Scheme (Occupational Pensions) Temporary Amendment Act 2020 has been reported to the House as printed. Are there any objections to that? No objections. The Bill has been received as printed and approved. That now takes us to the fifth item to …
Thank you, Deputy. The Bill entitled the National Pension Scheme (Occupational Pensions) Temporary Amendment Act 2020 has been reported to the House as printed. Are there any objections to that? No objections. The Bill has been received as printed and approved. That now takes us to the fifth item to be done on today’s Order [Paper]. That is the second reading of the Bermuda Bar Amendment Act 2020 in the name of the Minister for the Cabinet Office. Minister.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerCan you hear me, Mr. Furbert? Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Can you hear me?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYes, sir. You have the floor. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I move that the Bill entitled the Bermuda Bar Amendment Act 2020 be now read the second time.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAre there any objections to that? No objections. Continue, Minister. BILL SECOND READING BERMUDA BAR AMENDMENT ACT 2020 Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Mr. Speaker, today I present to this Honourable House the Bermuda Bar Amendment Act 2020. This is one of the several pieces of legislation that the Government will …
Are there any objections to that? No objections. Continue, Minister.
BILL
SECOND READING
BERMUDA BAR AMENDMENT ACT 2020
Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Mr. Speaker, today I present to this Honourable House the Bermuda Bar Amendment Act 2020. This is one of the several pieces of legislation that the Government will be introducing to help position Bermuda to compete for more business overseas. Mr. Speaker, Bermuda has a long- standing history of serving as a jurisdiction of choice for inter-national business. However, we must update our legal framework on a regular basis so that we can keep pace with market demands and adjust to changes in the global marketplace as quickly as possible. In the wake of COVID -19, widespread protests and civil u nrest in jurisdictions like Hong Kong and the United States, we must work even harder to strengthen our economy and let the world know that Bermuda is still open for business. Attracting new business to Bermuda helps create demand for additional legal service here on Island and for local cor porate administration services, thereby supporting jobs in those areas. New business registration also provides opportunities to introduce
Bermuda House of Assembly those same corporate clients and the principals b ehind them to a network of other professional services and service providers here in Bermuda. Mr. Speaker, prior to the onset of the pandemic, the Government began taking active steps to diver-sify Bermuda’s economy. We started working with the Bermuda Business Development Agency [BDA] and the private sector to create products aimed at attrac ting more family offices to Bermuda, to modernise certain provisions in our trust laws to make them more competitive and to develop a strategy to foster growth opportunities in Asia. This Asian strategy will focus on ways to raise Bermuda’s profile and create more av enues by which Bermuda- based companies can ident ify and access new clients in Asian markets. Mr. Speaker, while these initiatives are still works in progress, we know that any strategy for bus iness development must include expanding Bermuda’s presence and impacts on various parts of the world, especially in Asia. This might be achieved in part by finding new channels to promote Bermuda, but we must also be more effective at leveraging existing practices that are known to be s uccessful. We have to be willing to go out and get the business even if it means that we have to meet prospective clients where they are. Mr. Speaker, that is why we are debating the current Bill. The purpose of this legislation is to provide a clear, leg al framework for law firms in Bermuda to continue utilising registered associates, working overseas as resources to attract and service overseas cl ients on matters governed by Bermuda law. Right now many businesses are looking to restructure their o peratio ns, to sell off portions of their business or to complete mergers and/or acquisitions to reposition themselves in the global market. It has been shown that turbulent economic times also present opportun ities to seize new market shares from those countries and businesses that are ready, willing and able to do so. It is widely recognised that lawyers play a major role in decisions concerning where business activities and transactions will be based. For Bermuda to compete effectively in Asia and other places, we need flexible progressive laws, excellent professional services, and human resources that can connect with prospective clients in their home jurisdictions and sell Bermuda solutions to them. Registered associates help Bermuda’s international law firms n avigate various challenges that might result from lack of proximity to clients, difference in time zones, language and in some cases, differences in culture. Bermuda- based attorneys and other corporate service providers generate fees in Bermuda for var ious services throughout the relationship with the cl ient, including handling more complex matters, regul atory filings, and the like. Registered associates pr ovide face- to-face interactions for clients overseas while also providing routine, on- demand legal services. So, Mr. Speaker, what is a registered assoc iate? A registered associate is a person who is author-ised to engage in certain functions within the practice of Bermuda law, but only as an agent of the barrister or law firm for whom they work. Registered associates are not fully admitted to practice law as a barrister and attorney in Bermuda. The Supreme Court Registry is responsible for reviewing applications for registration of associates and for adding those persons who meet the statutory requirements of the Register of Assoc iates. Overseas registered associates serve as r esources, fully licensed Bermuda attorneys. Mr. Speaker, overseas registered [associates] have been used as resources by international law firms in Bermuda to compete for business for decades. So this is not a new phenomenon, Mr. Speaker. However, r ecent changes to Bermuda and our AML/ATF [anti money -laundering/antiterrorist financing] framework have resulted in the need for the Bermuda Bar to take an active part in the registration process and provide fit and proper certifications for registered associates. This change to the process became effective in January 2019, and has since resulted in a closer inspection of the provisions governing registered associates. While the current law does not specifically prohibit the registration of overseas associates, it does not expressly provide for such either. In fact, the law is silent on registration of persons working primar ily or wholly outside of Bermuda. So there is a need for legal certainty on this issue. Mr. Speaker, the Bill we are debating today is intended to resolve this issue. It speaks directly to the registration of associates working overseas. This Bill allows a law firm in Bermuda to register an associate to work in an overseas office either directly for the Bermuda firm, or for an associated office of the Ber-muda firm. If the person is employed by the overseas office, there must be a clear connection to the Berm uda law firm, meaning that the overseas office must be part of the same global network or brand as the Bermuda office. Only the Bermuda law firm can apply for registration of an associate to work overseas. The Bill also includes several other changes that are intended to enhance the regime and make it more closely aligned with that of other professional registrations. Firstly, the Minister responsible for co mpanies, the Minister of Finance, will be able to impose terms and provisions related to registration of overseas associates on new law firms setting up in Bermuda. In line with our intent to open Bermuda up to international law firms, we want to ensure that new firms are operating on the ground in Bermuda, not just setting up a minimal footprint here, in order to be able to sell Bermuda products in their overseas offices. Another change to the regime is to establish specified periods for which the registration of an ass ociate is valid. There are also new fees to register or to 4280 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly renew the registration of an associate. This includes a lower fee for registration of persons who will be based in Bermuda. Mr. Speaker, these changes are necessary to provide legal certainty for Bermuda law firms and their associated overseas offices and for the Bermuda Bar to be able to issue fit and proper certification for overseas associates as required by law. The Bill provides express authority for registration of overseas assoc iates when the necessary conditions are met. Mr. Speaker, in closing, I would like to thank the Bermuda Business Development Agency [BDA] for partnering with the Gov ernment on this legislative project. I would also like to thank the members of the private sector who worked together with the BDA to make this legislation happen. Finally, I would like to thank the public officers and the Cabinet officers, and the Attorne y General’s Chambers who assisted with this project. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member. Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerI recognise you, MP Pearman. You have the floor.
Mr. Scott PearmanThank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am conscious that you did i nvite us to have our camera on. For some reason I have not managed to turn my camera on. It will not let me do so on the device I am on, but I am wearing a …
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am conscious that you did i nvite us to have our camera on. For some reason I have not managed to turn my camera on. It will not let me do so on the device I am on, but I am wearing a suit and tie, just for the sake the House. But there we are.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYes. Well, I am sure you will definitely have that corrected for the next sitting.
Mr. Scott PearmanI am grateful for your indulgence. Mr. Speaker, let me start, of course, by declaring an interest. Like five other Members of this Honourable House in this Chamber, I am a member of the Bermuda Bar as an attorney practicing in Berm uda. Addit ionally, I also work for a …
I am grateful for your indulgence. Mr. Speaker, let me start, of course, by declaring an interest. Like five other Members of this Honourable House in this Chamber, I am a member of the Bermuda Bar as an attorney practicing in Berm uda. Addit ionally, I also work for a law firm that has registered associates. Not all of the law firms practicing in Bermuda do have registered associates. I also would like to start by thanking the Ho nourable Minister for sharing his brief with me, which he kindly did yesterday. He explained to me the logic behind the Bill and why it is that the Government was making this change. In the spirit of bipartisanship that we have seen more often of late in the House, let me start by observing a few areas with which I abs olutely agree with the Minister. Firstly, the Minister said that it is widely recognised that lawyers play a major role in decisions concerning where business activities and transactions will be based. And if they are not practicing law, pe ople may not appreciate that. People may not apprec iate that lawyers constantly fly around the world flying the flag for Bermuda, and that often it is the lawyer, maybe even the onshore lawyer, who has a say over where the client should choose in terms of jurisdiction. It is not to say that they make the decision; but they are a trusted confidence of the businessman or bus inesswoman. And when asked we want those lawyers to say Bermuda, and to think of Bermuda. And so it is important that we as Bermudian lawyers fly the f lag and we do so as much as we can because we are in a turbulent economic time and we have been in a turbulent economic time for some time and things have go tten worse with the arrival of COVID -19. Let me also if I may agree with the Minister when he expr esses the importance of letting the world know that Bermuda is open for business. Mr. Speaker, Bermuda is less and less on the lips of people when they think about their offshore structures. We were the dominant player for many years, and luckily so. But there are many others, some to the south and some elsewhere, who are seeking to do what we do and we need to up our game. And it is right, and I agree with the Minister, that the Bermuda Government and the Business Development Agency are focusing on Asia. It is right for two obvious reasons. One is that of course Asia is a boom area for growth. We are see-ing more and more successful Asian economies and what they are doing. And it is also right for another reason, which is that certain elements of Asia, for example, the Minister gave the example of Hong Kong, are experiencing difficulties. That is not necessarily of their making. But it is possible (whether it is probable is another point, but it is possible) that businesses in Hong Kong, say, may look elsewhere to allow for holding structures and companies to assist with their operative Asian businesses. And they may look to Bermuda and they may look to jurisdictions to our south or they may be look to the Channel Islands, et cetera. And so it is vital that t hose in Asia know we are here. It is vital that those in Asia know we are here! And let me also agree with the Minister where he says this, Registered associates help Bermuda’s international law firms navigate various challenges that might result from lack of proximity to clients, di fference in time zones, language and in some cases, differences in culture. If there is a Bermudian lawyer on your doorstep and he or she is able to meet for breakfast, lunch and dinner with that Asian client, Bermuda is far m ore likely to get the benefit of that business. They funnel work back to us. And so it
Bermuda House of Assembly should be appreciated that registered associates do provide a very important function in that regard. So, having addressed the points in the Mini ster’s brief, with whi ch I very much agree and support, let me turn to the Bill itself, because this Bill is in effect doing two things: One, it is regulari sing the position in respect of existing registered associates. It is resol ving the uncertainty that was identified by the Minister when he opened his address on the Bill. And there was an uncertainty, and perhaps that was unhelpful. But this Bill, specifically at [clause 2, which amends section] 14(5)(b), is clarifying that uncertainty. And in that sense it is regularising the position. But there is a second thing this Bill is doing. And in that respect it is changing the position. It is changing the position b ecause in respect of [section] 14(5)(c), it is allowing for registered associates to act in a different way to act for law firms that are not necessarily thought of Bermudian law firms, but foreign law firms operating here in Bermuda, and there are more and more of them every day (perhaps). So those are the two things this Bill is doing. And, let’s just pause for a second and look back at Asia. As I said, there is a great opportunity for bus iness growth. Historically . . . and many may not know this. But those who worked in the business world in Bermuda may be aware that historically there has been an incredible legacy of Hong Kong and Chinese business doing business in Bermuda. And one of the reasons for that was that there used to be a dual stock exchange where companies in Hong Kong could be listed on the Hong Kong stock exchange and at the same time they would be dual listed on the Bermuda stock exchange. And it was this tie that bound. Additionally, what we now have as HSBC was once upon a time the Bank of Bermuda. And in the early 1980s —1981, 1982, 1983 —the Bank of Berm uda went over to Asia and it bought the trust business of Standard Chartered Bank, a massive thing for a Bermudian bank to have done at that time, and a very successful move with the benefit of hindsight. So, we had bankers over in Hong Kong. We had lawyers over in Hong Kong. And we had them there for some 40 years. And we had them there before others were in the jurisdiction. And so there is a legacy there, and a legacy about which Bermuda can and should be proud. But a legacy is only what you make of it, and the fear is that Bermuda must not rest on its laurels. The fear is that there are now other j urisdictions which are also there. And there are other jurisdictions which are working very, very hard to try to eat our lunch. And whilst I am talking about Asia, I may pause and also redirect those jurisdictionally to look to our south, because it is they who are seeking to take this business away from us. And it is they who are being more competitive than we are. So, if I were to ask those in this Chamber to hear nothing else that I say about a Bill, about changes to the law, please hear this. Bermuda needs to be more competitive. We need to reduce the cost of doing business. We need to reduce our taxes and our red tape. For if we do not, all of that work that we have lovingly, lovingly courted for some 40 years will go to the south, as it already is, because they are simply more cost -effective. Now, back to the Bill itself. This is not a Bill without controversy. There are those who support it and have their reasons for supporting it, and there are those w ho oppose it and have their reasons for opposing it. There may also be people in this Chamber who wish to speak to this Bill who may not support certain aspects of this Bill. And you will remember at the beginning of my speech I identified two things the Bill was doing. The first was to regularise an existing position and resolve the uncertainty that existed and that was [section] 14(5)(b). And the second was, in effect, changing the position. And that was [section] 14(5)(c). And let me just refer, as the M inister did, to the support this Bill receives from the Bermuda D evelopment Agency, the Bermuda BDA. Now, the Ber-muda BDA has been working for some time to identify an Asian strategy. They recognise, and if I may say so in my personal opinion they recognis e rightly, that that is one of the key areas for potential future economic growth and if Bermuda is to try to grow its share of that work, we need to have boots on the ground, we need to be flying the flag. And it is that which regi stered associates are ab le to do. And if you will permit me, Mr. Speaker, I will just quote, very briefly, from the BDA proposal in support of this on registered assoc iates overseas. And what they said is this: “The policy is based on Government’s view that the presence of intern ational law firms in Bermuda will benefit the local economy and enhance employment prospects for Bermudians and enhance the Bermuda brand by add itional exposure on the global market. Consistent with this approach, the BDA has been working with the Government and private sector to identify opportun ities for Bermudians and Bermuda companies to have a greater presence in Hong Kong, Singapore, and other Asian markets as part of the As ia strategy.” So there is definitely a plan here to try to make this work. As I said earlier, this Bill is not without contr oversy. There are two important features of the Bill that I would like to turn to now. One is the slightly contr oversial aspect, and the second is what I will call the regulatory safeguard. Turning first to the controversial aspect, that was the point I referenced earlier at [clause 2 which amends section] 14(5)(c). The Bar Council is concerned that when you open the door and allow Bermudians to walk through that door to go out to Asia and to plant registered associates there, that there may be a detrimental impact of that door being opened. And that is that other law firms which are not Bermudian law firms, that exist elsewhere but have an office in Bermuda, might succumb to the temptation of taking Bermuda work . . . 4282 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly instead of going abroad to Asia and bringing work to Bermuda, there may be a risk (at least it is a risk identified by the Bar Council) that some other firms will come to Bermuda, set up shop, and take work from us. You may recall when there was a large d ebate in the United States (several decades ago now) about the North American Free Trade Agreement [NAFTA] and one- time Bermudian resident, Ross Perot, got up and he warned Americans of the giant sucking sound of business going from the United States down to Mexico. And I think it is that fear of that giant sucking sound that underpins the Bar Council’s concerns about the amendment to [section] 14(5)(c). And they do not want to see other firms open an office in Bermuda, which is really not a substantive office, but merely —and I do not mean this derogativ ely—but, you know, one man and his dog opening up an office. And they are really here . . . just like our registered associates are over in Asia to send Asian work back to Bermuda, they are concerned, the Bar Council is concerned, that maybe those people will be here in Bermuda to send work from Bermuda to other jurisdi ctions. And so that is the concern of the Bar Council. And I hope I have done them justice in representing their concern and representi ng it fairly and clearly. Let me turn now to the second important feature of the Bill. And that is what I described earlier as the regulatory safeguard. And that is also in the amendment to [section] 14(5). It is actually clause 2 of the Bill which amends section 14. And it is section 14(3A), at the top of page 2, if anyone is looking at the Bill. And at (3A) it makes clear what the process will be, how the Government will interact here in Bermuda with the registration of registered associates. And it says this, again with your leave I quote directly from the Bill, “ An application for registration of an associate may be submitted by a barrister, firm or pr ofessional company in Bermuda . . . .” And let me pause there and remind everyone what the Minister said in his brief. Only the Bermuda law firm can apply for registration of an associate to work overseas. So, it is only the Bermuda law firm that can apply for regi stration of an associate to work overseas; it is not like some lawyer in London can say, I wou ld like to be a Bermuda lawyer, please. It is the firm here in Berm uda that has to apply. And that is why I described it as a regulatory safeguard because, returning back to clause 2, [new section] (3A), of section 14, and as I was quoting it, it said, “ An application for registration of an associate may be submitted by a barrister, firm or professional company in Bermuda in respect of a person who meets the conditions set out in [ subsection] (5)(a), (b) or (c).” So there is a registration process and we look forward to seeing from the Government what condi-tions will be there, but there is a safeguard. And in closing, Mr. Speaker, I think the pos ition is that whilst we, the Opposition, are happy to highlight both the support of the BDA and the concern of the Bar Council, we, nonetheless, support the Bill with the reservations identified. But ultimately this sort of legal tinkering is not going to solve Bermuda’s ec onomic problems. I was listening to someone recently describe the arrival of COVID -19 as pushi ng the Bermudian economy over a cliff. And I am not sure that that is the right metaphor, because that suggests that before the person was pushed by COVID -19 they were on flat ground. And, respectfully, I do not think that is true. Before COVID -19 we were already tumbling down the mountainside in the landslide, and COVID -19 is taking a firehose and applying water and speeding up that landslide. And so we must recognise that the future is going to be pretty bleak. It will only get better if we all work together. And it will only get better if we identify what that means and agree upon what that means. Because it does not just mean us looking internally between our-selves about how we can fix our problems. That is huge; I accept that. But we have to remind our selves that Bermuda is in the business of selling itself as an international jurisdiction of finance. It goes to the world and says, We exist because we are trying to help you with offshore structures. And so we must, must, must remain competitive. We cannot afford to be the excl usive, expensive jurisdiction only for the top drawer because that top drawer is looking pretty empty right now. So, we have to be aware of what is necessary to ensure Bermuda remains competitive and brings in the business. In clos ing, Mr. Speaker, the Bill is not without controversy, but it is a step in the right direction. Particularly we commend the Government and the BDA for having an eye on Asia, which is very much where the eye should be placed. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The S peaker: Thank you, Honourable Member. Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak?
Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: Mr. Speaker.
Ms. Leah K. ScottYes, Mr. Speaker. Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: I will defer to her.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerI hear two voices. Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: I will defer.
Ms. Leah K. ScottNo, go ahead, Trevor. Bermuda House of Assembly The Speaker: MP Moniz. Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: I am trying to activate the vi deo there.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerOkay. Good. Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: Is there—
The SpeakerThe SpeakerIt is good to see you. Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: Thank you. It is nice to see you, Mr. Speaker. And a happy birthday to you.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerOh, okay. Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: You have reached an i mportant milestone.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerEvery one is important at this stage in life, you know. [Laughter] Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: I agree. I agree. I am six years ahead of you, so I appreciate that.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerOkay. Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: So I just want to say a few words to support the comments of my learned and honourable colleague Scott Pearman. I think to an extent we appreciate what the Government are trying to do here. As Mr. Pearman said, this is not without controversy …
Okay. Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: So I just want to say a few words to support the comments of my learned and honourable colleague Scott Pearman. I think to an extent we appreciate what the Government are trying to do here. As Mr. Pearman said, this is not without controversy among the me mbers of the Bermuda Bar. You know, we have tried to tread a sort of middle line. I, like Mr. Pearman, would declare my interest. I am a partner in a small law firm, so we have no registered associates and have no desire to have any registered associates at the moment, although we have had some in years past. As he said, there are other members of the Bar who are in the House of Assembly, including of course the Honourable and Learned Kim Wilson, the Health Minister, who actually works for the Bar and runs the AML section of the Bar, which forms a part of the discussion that took place between the BDA and the Bermuda Bar Council on this, which we have been able to have a look at and have a look at the concerns that the Bar have. I do not particularly have, in the sense of my profession, a dog in this fight. I am pretty neutral on it. During the period when I had the honour to serve as Bermuda’s Attorney General, I did meet with two of the new international law firms which set up here, Walkers and Harneys, on separate occasions, of course. And my view then is really what my view is now t hat insofar as the entry of those law firms into the Bermuda market, insofar as that is a good thing for Bermuda and Bermudians, I would support it. Ins ofar as it is not good for Bermuda or Bermudians, I would oppose it. As I stressed to them at the time, and would stress to the Government today, insofar as these peo-ple have offices here, which my colleague, the Honourable and Learned Mr. Pearman, talked about one man and a dog, you know, you do not want an office here which is just to collect your mail and then ever ything goes somewhere overseas. I think we have the three firms here now: Walkers, Harneys, and Carey Olsen. And I see some signs in the paper of some of those offices bulking up in Bermuda, hiring Bermudians, and having intellectual talent here in Bermuda. And insofar as they do that, I think that is a wonderful thing. Certainly now some of the overhead costs in Bermuda are steeply declining, such as office space, and I would like to see these firms showing the proof of the pudding by bulking up these offices. In partic ular, I have seen publicity for Carey Olsen when they hire Bermudians and Bermudian lawyers and I think that is very good for Bermuda, and I hope that is substantive, and I hope it continues, and I hope the other two firms are doi ng likewise. I have no axe to grind against local firms, big, medium or small. Hopefully, they can meet the challenge. We have to do everything we can in order to stimulate our economy. The Honourable and Learned Member, Mr. Pearman, noted that at the moment Bermuda is facing great competitive challenges from other offshore jurisdictions and, in particular, Cayman. Cayman, for years, copied the Bermuda model and are now doing the Bermuda model effectively, in some ways, better than we are and are stealing a march on us. People have said this over and over again. You know, we have to meet that challenge. Up till the time of the appearance of coronavirus, we had not met that challenge, and that is the challenge for the new Go vernment. Unfortunately, the new G overnment have . . . while we were in the Government, while the OBA were in the Government they were the Opposition. The PLP Opposition were very obstructionist, they were very insular. When we tried new big projects to stimulate the economy, almost without fail the PLP would say, Oh, they are all disastrous, such as the America’s Cup. You know, they were very critical of things like the America’s Cup. They just could not see the benefit of it. And for political purposes, or any cy nical view they took to tr y and bring things down. And successfully they were elected Government. But now of course they face the exact same situation that we faced at the time. So now they are trying to bring on projects, and I think that they . . . and we will support them in doing that. They need to open up—
4284 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly Mr. Christopher Famous: Point of order, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Christopher FamousThe Honourable Member from constituency 9 is saying that the PLP were being obstructionist. In particular, w ith the airport deal, we asked for clarity, which the Government of that time never gave. And now we are finding ourselves having to pay, potentially pay, for things that we know nothing …
The Honourable Member from constituency 9 is saying that the PLP were being obstructionist. In particular, w ith the airport deal, we asked for clarity, which the Government of that time never gave. And now we are finding ourselves having to pay, potentially pay, for things that we know nothing about. That is not being cynical. That was asking for transparency.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member. Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: Well, Mr. Speaker, perhaps the Honourable Member should ask for the agreement on the hospital. That was never shown to anyone. It is very difficult to get a hold of that document. That was a PLP document. So, you know, there were …
Thank you, Honourable Member.
Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: Well, Mr. Speaker, perhaps the Honourable Member should ask for the agreement on the hospital. That was never shown to anyone. It is very difficult to get a hold of that document. That was a PLP document. So, you know, there were some things that were confidential at the time, but I do not want to get distracted from what we are discussing today, which is offshore law firms. And offshore law firms in the sense that they want to come here, that is a great compl iment for Bermuda. The fact that these guys want to open up here is a great compliment to Bermuda where it stands. And we do not want to be seen to be an old boys’ club. And I think that this move by the Government . . . and I am effectively supporting the move. But I am saying we need to keep an eye on it. We need to look at . . . I do not have these particulars in front of me. The Minister has not presented them. I have not seen them in the documents from the BDA. You know, how many square feet are these people renting? How many staff are they hiring? How many Bermudian staff are they hiring? It would be nice to see these things so that we can see from when they started up, how much benefit they are being to Bermuda. Now, I know some of the local law firms are complaining that these guys, these new international law firms, are to some degree sucking work out of Bermuda. I have not seen any proof of that. If there were any proof of it, I think the Government should try to take action to protect, not the local law firms, but to protect the jurisdiction. That is what the Government needs to do. They need to keep a track on the positive benefit of these firms to the overall Bermudian economy. So to the extent that employment in the legal sector has increased since they arrived, and in parti cular employment of Bermudians has increased since these firms arrived, surely they are a good thing for Bermuda. And that is what we need keep an eye on. And on that basis I would support it, and I think that we on this side of the House would support it. You know, I am very bullish. I think, you know, I think that we can turn this country around. I have great respect for the ability of the new Finance Mini ster. I think we have knowledge in this Government. He has a committee in place to see what we should do to get this economy going again, in particular for the coronavirus. But as the Honourable and Learned Member, Mr. Pearman, already said, our economy has been in a steep decline for the last several ye ars. This is another nail in the coffin and we need immediate, swift action. The Government have the BermudaFirst R eport. They have got members from that committee on the new committee set up by the Finance Minister and let this be one small step of a muc h larger programme to open up our economy and stop being small -minded and insular. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Member. Does any other Honourable wish to speak?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerHonourable Member, you have . . . you sound like you are a bit away from your microphone. Could you get a little closer to your microphone?
Ms. Leah K. ScottOkay. Mr. Speaker, like my colleagues who have just spoken before me, I too support this legislation. I actually worked at Appleby for seven years and while I was working there, during the time that I was there, Appleby has always had a strong Asian presence. The good thing about …
Okay. Mr. Speaker, like my colleagues who have just spoken before me, I too support this legislation. I actually worked at Appleby for seven years and while I was working there, during the time that I was there, Appleby has always had a strong Asian presence. The good thing about law firms that have offices in other jurisdictions is that it provides the opportunity for Bermudians who are working in those law firms to be able to work in other jurisdictions and to learn the other components of the laws in another country. When I worked at Appleby, I was able to go to the Seychelles and I seconded there for a year and it was an invaluable experience. So, Mr. Speaker, I went t o a conference about three years ago in Singapore and Hong Kong. I at-tended the conference with Sean Moran and some others from the BDA. And Sean had organised meetings with us with various Hong Kong law firms. So we met some people from Walkers, and DLA P iper, and other law firms and the common referring of the peoBermuda House of Assembly ple who we met with was, Where is Bermuda? And so I think that this is a good move because we need to be in the jurisdiction to be front of mind. You know, a lot of Bermuda lawyers go to London. London is only six or seven hours away. You can get there once or twice a month. But with Asia it is a long way to go and you have to be consistent. And building up relationships with Asian clients can be quite lengthy. We have to be very, very sensitive t o their cultural issues. But at the end of the day, if we want the Asian business, we have to be in the game to play the game. So we have to have a presence there. I think, Mr. Speaker, that it is very difficult for international firms who do have offices in Asia and other jurisdictions to manage those operations from Bermuda. So it is important that they are able to have registered associates in those jurisdictions practicing in Asia, meeting with the people who are there, and it ultimately allows Bermuda to have a seat at the table, which then puts Bermuda in front of mind and it cr eates opportunities within the jurisdiction. So, we have firms like Appleby, Conyers, Carey Olsen, Walkers, who have operations in Asia, and so they are able to direct business to Bermuda. We have Harneys who is actually directing business to Cayman. And I think that is a result of Harneys short venture of going into Bermuda and it not going very well. But I think that having the registered ass ociates will help the jurisdiction and we have people in Asia who can help with advice on devising and deve loping Bermuda structures. We have Cayman, BVI, and other jurisdictions who are located at Singapore and Hong Kong, and they have been there for quite some time. And so it is time for us to take advantage of the opportunity. There is a lot of unrest and all kinds of things going on with the restructuring in Asia. I have a group of clients who are Asian and one of the patriarchs is from Seoul, Korea. He is currently in the process of trying to get citizenship in Portugal and move his fam ily to Portugal because of the corruptness in South Korea. So he has got a trust with megabucks in it, but he will not access the funds because once he does it involves reporting and then the government w ill make him pay a ridiculous amount in taxes. So there are a lot of people who are trying to restructure their assets in a way that they can get them out of the jurisdiction and they can have access to their money and assets and do with them what they want. And we need to be in a place and in a position to take advantage of the restructuring and the other things that are going on. If we are truly determined to provide support to the international business firms, then we have to give them the tools they n eed to operate. And I think this is a good step in the right direction in developing a framework. Is it absolutely perfect? No. But it is a step in the right direction. And to just continue on the path of my co lleagues, this is just one step in the toolbox of trying to generate some sort of economic recovery. Bermuda was jewel in the Atlantic for many, many years; the jurisdiction of choice. Right now we are running behind Cayman trying to catch their dust. We are not even close enough to eat it. We are tr ying to catch it. And that should not be like that because we have so much more to offer in terms of our infr astructure, in terms of our intellectual property, in terms of our service providers, and just Bermuda is a beaut iful place! So we need to repositi on ourselves. It is going to take a lot of time and, as my colleague, the Hon-ourable Trevor Moniz has said, the Minister of F inance has put in place this team to sort of look at what things we can do to provide an economic stim ulus. But, again, as everyone else has said, we have to work together. There is no one idea that is not a good idea, and we cannot just turn down things because it happens to be a PLP idea or an OBA idea. We have to work for the country and we have to work for Ber-muda. And this is one opportunity to be able to do so. So, I support the legislation. I commend the Minister for bringing it. And thank you for the oppor-tunity to speak, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member. Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerHonourable Member, you have the floor.
Mr. N. H. Cole SimonsThank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, a lot has been said and I support my colleagues to date based on their contribution, in particular, Mr. Pearman, the Deputy Opposition Lea der, and the former Attorney General Trevor Moniz. From a personal point of view, yes, I support the Business Development …
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, a lot has been said and I support my colleagues to date based on their contribution, in particular, Mr. Pearman, the Deputy Opposition Lea der, and the former Attorney General Trevor Moniz. From a personal point of view, yes, I support the Business Development endeavours and that w e have a proper legal framework so that Bermuda is compet itive internationally. I agree that the lawyers and the bankers play a major role in business placement for international clients. They are the linchpin for the distribution of businesses and the ou tsourcing and the gathering of professional advisors to their families and their bus inesses. So you cannot underscore the important roles that these international lawyers play. Mr. Speaker, as was said, Bermuda’s lan dscape is very interesting. This legislation is aimed for the international firms. And from a landscaping point 4286 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly of view, we have the international local company, i.e., CD&P and Appleby’s, which are Bermuda companies. Appleby is owned by a foreign institution but historica lly they have been Bermudian. And then we have the four or five international companies, Harneys, Carey Olsen, Kennedys, and we have Walkers. I think Wal kers left, as my colleague said. I am for international business coming to Bermuda. And as the Honourable Trevor Moniz said, if we are to invite international business here, they have to basically come and provide jobs and have a substantive presence here and use our housing and train Bermudians and also bring in new business , Mr. Speaker. To me, that is one of the crucial issues , bringing in new business to Bermuda. You know, as Trevor Moniz said, there has been a lot of talk about cannibalising the business that is here, and sucking business out of Bermuda to lower cost jurisdictions. But that is global international bus iness. And somehow we as a jurisdiction will have to become more competitive in that space if we are going to compete globally, because foreign lawyers are far more economical than some of the lawyers in Bermuda. So, if you can get good legal advice overseas for the same service that you get in Bermuda, then, you know, that overseas jurisdiction would have an economic advantage. But having said that, there was a comment made in regard to the Hong Kong companies. And Mr. Pearman was correct. I was involved in the i nternational business and working with Hong Kong companies in the 1980s, just before the migration of Hong Kong to China. And at that time, as Mr. Pearman said, the Hong Kong companies were listed on the Hong Kong stock exchange and the BSX. And that is what made Bermuda attractive. And we have to find other initiatives like that which will make Bermuda attractive. At that point in time we had the old Chinese families, the large multinational firms that were in Hong Kong, they left Hong Kong. They went to the UK, and a lot of them came here. And that provided a boost to our economy. Jardine Matheson came and they invested in Bermuda. And that is what we have to continue. But right now those large international companies that I am talking about are basically for the old money, the old Chinese money. The young entrepr eneurs of Hong Kong are now investing their funds to Cayman. And, again, we always hear about Cayman taking our bread and butter. So we have to see what we can do to divert that business back her e. And somehow we have to truly send the message that we are welcoming international business and we will be their partners to ensure that they succeed locally and internationally. And that is where Cayman so far has the edge over us. You know, we have been talking about imm igration reform. Well, let’s continue on that path. We have a committee in place and the reform is still not complete. And so, Mr. Speaker, I would invite the Government to somehow look at immigration reform, especially when it comes to attracting international business companies, international investors, and ex-ecutives of international firms. Like I said, I was in Hong Kong in the 1980s as an auditor as well. HSBC at the time was Bank of Bermuda, quite frankly, and Bank of Bermuda had t he largest trust company in Hong Kong. And they were probably the largest offshore company in Hong Kong. And we had a sterling reputation. We had blue- chip clients. And we were holding our weight as a small jurisdiction. Appleby was there, CD&P was there, and, as was said, we had a substantial presence in the r egion there in Singapore. Somehow we have lost the shine. And I think that is what we need to get back, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the issue that I would like to speak to is the issue of the small, independent law firms, because if you talk about the international firms you have maybe four international firms and the international local firms, Conyers, Dill & Pearman and A ppleby. So t hat is six in total. So right now in my est imation the way the legislation is crafted is for the be nefit of those six large international companies, some Bermuda owned and some not. I would like for the Minister to speak to how we can support the small independent firms. Firms like BeesMont, Trott & Duncan, Christopher E. S wan, Christopher’s, Smith & Co., Moniz & George Ltd., Mi lligan -Whyte, Marc Daniels’ firm, and so on. Will they be in a position to invite a registered associate to be their representative? And so we spoke about the registered associate has to work for a Bermuda firm. They have to have worked for a brand that is in Bermuda. My question to the Minister is this: I am just going to use Marc Daniels as an example. If I am a Marc Daniels and I went to a law school in London, University of Buckingham, and I got m y law degree, and I partnered and became a good, good friend of another colleague of mine who was based in England, and he is very competent (I know him well), and I say to him, Listen, I want to expand my footprint in London (or in Hong Kong , because we w ere all in the same school together, we all have similar talents ), but you have the contacts there and I have the contacts in Bermuda, can that foreign associate be approved under this scheme even though he is not a Bermuda associate? He can have a working agreement with one of the smaller firms , because I think they need the su pport as well. And if I can say, My colleague, Simon Lo of Hong Kong is prepared to have a shingle in his office to say, ‘Marc Daniels, Associates, Bermuda’ . . . would that be okay from this legislative point of view? Or can he say, I am a registered associate of a Bermuda firm . . . he does not have the “ Marc Daniels Associates ” in Hong Kong, but he is prepared to be an associate for Marc Daniels’ firm in Bermuda.
Bermuda House of Assembly So, I would lik e for the Minister to speak to that because that will provide opportunities for the l ocal small independent firms to join up with other la wyers that can feed them business too, and not just ensure that the benefit that we have in place today is for the lar ge international firms, or the local international firms. I would like to see everyone enjoy a piece of this pie. And so I would like for the Minister to speak to that as well. The other issue is the markets. The financial services markets are changing co ntinuously. And there is a bit of uncertainty going forward in the Middle East and the UAE [ United Arab Emirates ]. It is my u nderstanding that a number of the people in the high net worth space are basically beginning to feel un-comfortable, and they are looking to move to other markets. And so we might find lawyers in the Middle East and UAE who may be able to become registered associates for one of our independent law firms or one of our international law firms. But for the independent firms, I am just concerned that they have to be a label or be a subsidiary of a Bermuda company. Why can’t we just form a partnership with the Bermuda company? The Berm uda compan y makes an application for Simon Lo to act on behalf Marc Daniels ’ law firm in Bermuda, and that he be fine in that space. The uncertainty as far as I am concerned in the Middle East is another opportun ity that we could examine going forward and that we could also find attorneys in the Middle East who can feed Bermuda. But, again, they have different laws; they have the Sharia laws in the Middle East. And I understand that may cause an issue for some of our local lawyers. Now, the other issue that I would like to a ddress it the KYC [Know Your Customer] and the AML [Anti-Money Laundering] requirements. I mean, how thorough are we going to be in regard to making sure that these registered associates are fit and proper for Bermuda? How can we ensure that they are the people that we as a jurisdiction want to do business [with]? I suspect that our associati on would basically vet that process as was said in the legislation. But when we reach to other jurisdictions, like the Middle East or, you have the Middle East and the UAE, then those associates may be more challenging to get the AML and KYC documents up t o scratch. And so we have to look at the big picture down the road in that we might want associates in countries . . . and what about the unspoken one? I know a law firm that has a lot of business in Africa. And so we might want associates in Africa, because Africa is one of the developing markets. They have a lot of resources and they could send business to Bermuda. So, how are we going to ensure that we can get the proper KYC and AML documents in place to ensure that all of the lawyers who want to partner with Bermuda have met our KYC and AML standards? You know, in some countries it is difficult to get that information and difficult to independently ver ify the information. I know as a banker whenever I get a new international client, they can send an applic ation to me, as the banker. But as far as the KYC details are concerned, I have to do my own independent research to corroborate the source of wealth and the businessman’s integrity. I do not depend on what they write to me; I have to do that myself. I have to check with other institutions that basically provide research on professionals and industry. I have to look at World-Check to make sure that the businessperson or his business have no financial crime infractions, or that there is no reputational r isk to Bermuda. And that is the extent of examination that we have to do when we admit these registered associates to our register, from a Bermuda Bar perspective. I think those were my main issues, because a lot of my issues were basically mentioned and di scussed by the Honourable Trevor Moniz, MP Scott Pearman and the Deputy Opposition Leader. My co ncern and my wish is that we also provide support, not just to international businesses that have come here recently, and its international large law firms, Conyers, Dill & Pearman, Appleby. Are we providing opportunity for these small independent firms to enjoy some of the ripe and rich benefits of playing in the international space, which heretofore they have not had the oppor-tunity to do so? I would like them to get some attention and support, and have their issues addressed so that they can make a contribution in international space should they choose to do so. So those are my brief comments. As I said, I am supportive of the business especially if we can make our legal framework competitive and efficient and it does not compromise our reputation as a juri sdiction. As MP Leah Scott and MP Scott Pearman said, you do not have to be lawyers to be in the face of business developers or family office professionals. You know, I have travelled quite a bit in the private banking business in London, in New York. And, invariably, as was said earlier, we hear from Cayman all the time. We hear from Jersey and Guernsey all the time. But we hear little from Bermuda. And that is what we have to do. We have to once again raise our profile and be in front of these people all the time. And as they said, these registered associates, be instr umental in raising our profile for these companies and for Bermuda. But I want to also rai se the profile for our i ndependent people so they can have their share of i nternational business in this world. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, MP Simons. Does any other Member wish to speak? 4288 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly Hon. Michael J. Scott: Mr. Speaker, if I may? (M ichael Scott)
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMP Scott. Hon. Michael J. Scott: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYou have the floor, MP. Hon. Michael J. Scott: Thank you. May I also begin by declaring my interest as a practicing attorney in Bermuda? I fall int o the category of small, as a matter of fact, not even small law firm, but a sole practicing law firm, the …
You have the floor, MP.
Hon. Michael J. Scott: Thank you. May I also begin by declaring my interest as a practicing attorney in Bermuda? I fall int o the category of small, as a matter of fact, not even small law firm, but a sole practicing law firm, the likes of which my colleague, Mr. Simons, has just been speaking of. So, I have declared that interest. I take Mr. Cole Simons’ point, Mr. Speaker, that it is the lawyers and bankers who are the infl uencers of business placement in any territorial jurisdi ction. That is entirely true. I take the other point that Mr. Simons was making, and indeed Ms. Scott, the Dep uty Opposition Leader was making, that t here has been a distinct deficit of persons of Bermuda in the firms that they have been visiting, whether it is in Hong Kong or in Jersey or Guernsey, where the offshoring business and wealth management and wealth protection business takes place. I return to the theme, if it is the law firms like Mr. Moniz indicates, it would not be his kind of firm that is out in the international market flying the flag as the Honourable and Learned Member Mr. Pearman indicates that it must be done to bring business here. It must be firms like the firms of which Mr. Pearman, the Honourable and Learned Member, is a member and partner. And so where is the responsibility and the falling off of the cliff occurring if not with the infl uences here? These large law firms. Certainly not Marc Daniels’ firm or Milligan -Whyte and Smith, or my firm, because we are not yet in the market. Now, Mr. Simons also made another i mportant point, Mr. Speaker, which was that . . . his concern whether the fit and proper requirement will be adequately enforced in relation to foreign lawyers l ocating here as registered associates, and hopefully carrying out the function of bringing business to Bermuda. But by those very words, Mr. Simons is under-scoring the gold standard of Bermuda, the very kind of compliance with red tape, which the Honourable and Learned Member, Mr. Pearman, said we must eschew —the cost of business, taxes, and red tape. Now, we cannot have it both ways. My scant under-standing of the Cayman model . . . and it is clear that they to ok our watch and are now telling us the time on it. It is very clear that they are eating our lunch. But it is my understanding that young dec ision-makers, young lawyers in Hong Kong and in New York and in jurisdictions that are managing clients’ family of fice needs, are the millennial set and gener ation on making the box that they are ticking to be Cayman and not Bermuda. And they are doing it, says the Honourable and Learned Member, Mr. Pearman, because of our taxes and because of our costs of doing business. But Mr. Simons hit right on the matter, in my view, because I also understand that Cayman are a lot less robust in their requirement for the kinds of fit and proper tests, or KYC requirements, than Bermuda is. And we have always held to this standard of being a different set. And Mr. Pearman, the Honourable and Learned Member, described us. He characterised this territory and our model as being more like a . . . I do not recall his exact words, but he was saying essentially that we are more conservativ e, or stuffy. And the words that I recall are that we have too much red tape. But does Bermuda want to become the Ca yman Islands where there is just a good deal of uns avoury, I say, Mr. Speaker, work and entities who could not pass a smell test on KYC in m any instances? I do not seek to be disrespectful and insult, but my anecdotal information about the broad sweep of clientele that go to the Cayman Islands, and result in our ha ving to bemoan that our lunch is being eaten by them, the decision- makers, the i nfluencers in New York, means the decision- makers were sending the bus iness to the Cayman Islands. And may I say, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Pearman’s law firm and Appleby’s law firms have significant presence in BVI and the Ca yman Islands, so that the level of busi ness volume and capacity in those territories is higher than in Bermuda. So they, my Honourable and Learned co lleague, Mr. Pearman, are also making influencer d ecisions and sending clients to Conyers and/or me mbers of Appleby’s, and lawyers at Appleby’s are sending the business to those less expensive, less tax ri dden, and certainly less bureaucratic dependent territ ories. So, when Mr. Pearman makes his speech, and it was a little dark, that we already as a country, a microstate, are over the cliff, I mean economically, pre COVID -19, that we were, we might have saved ourselves from tumbling over the cliff if decisions made to keep and attract business here or to direct business here was a more robust energetic effort by these two major law firms that attrac t and are the magnets for this business. But, as I say, there is more business . . . the file stacks in those territories are higher there than they are here. Now, there may be another dynamic. And, again, my friend, Mr. Simons, in his excellent observ ations from and through the prism of a private finance, private banker person, hit on it when he mentioned, Mr. Speaker, that it might be helpful. And it is a pos ition with which I had much empathy and fully support. If the relationships between Milligan- Whyt e and Smith, smaller law firms with young black and white practitioners in England, formed partnerships or relationships with registered associates with Hong
Bermuda House of Assembly Kong practitioners or London practitioners, and signi ficantly, as Mr. Simons was indicating, the M iddle East and Asia firms, there is a certain je ne sais quoi between equal generational dialogue going on at the professional level that might break though the very stuffiness that is lamented by the Shadow Attorney General Mr. Pearman, as causing busines s to shrink in Bermuda and to build in our competitor territories in Cayman. It might work. And it might be worth exploring. So I completely and fully support Mr. Simons’ explor atory questions to . . . if this legislation, as innovative as it is, does not extend to these kinds of possibilities then it is something that I certainly (I will say to Mr. Simons) will encourage Minister Furbert to look into, because in it lies expansion of business growth in the country. That is obviously what Bermuda wants. Having said all of that I have to say this to balance my discussion. I therefore, having indicated what are the dynamics at play, Mr. Speaker, in this case study for attracting business here, the vast bulk of muscle involved in attracting international wealth here does not reside in the offices or supporters of the Progressive Labour Party. As a matter of fact, that muscle resides exclusively over this 40- year legacy period when the Honourable and Learned Shadow Attorney General’s relative, Mr. Richard Love Pearman and Bill K empe and the partners of Conyers, Dill & Pearman were living the legacy of a Bermuda family office centre to manage wealth. Those decisions and decision -makers do not reside with the PLP. And frankly, I reject the position of the former Attorney General, Mr. Moniz. That is tiresome, Mr. Trevor Moniz, my friend. It is tiresome. Because it does not ring true that our policies and unfriendliness have driven the business away. It is claptrap when really the decision- making resides in the hands and in the minds and in the heads of the partners who are traveling around the world, or who are, as I have indicated, residing in the Cayman Islands as Conyers, Dill or as Appleby, and they are making the decisions. And if they cannot sell in a simple meet ing this cou ntry, then something is amiss. I mean, for the scapegoating of the PLP policy of being unfriendly or having bad immigration rules, when really Mr. Simons has pointed out that our rules, the Honourable and Learned Member Ms. Wilson’s platform, which is there to maintain the Bermuda gold standard so that we have a clean jurisdiction . . . because there are clients who wish not to be in jurisdi ctions where there are levels of sleaze or money - laundering or just an unsavoury environment. We modelled around that. The PLP has never been un- open to refor ming tax structures and making it easier for both the cost of business and the speed with which formations can take place in this country, and giving concessions on housing with the Job Makers Act and g iven concessions even for residence. I mean, there has been an entire panoply of concessions and attractiveness that should make it possible for the two large influencer law firms to attract the business here. So, if it is indeed the more relaxed or even the absence of compliance or rules in our competitors to the south that is attracting the millennial lawyers in Manhattan to send their clients to these jurisdictions, then let’s just say that and stop this remarkably i ncredible and pallid throwing of excuses that it falls on the PLP who have no direct decision- making powers or capacity in these affairs. So, Mr. Speaker, I know that the model law firms that the Honourable Member, Mr. Simons, listed would welcome an opportunity to get into the game. They ar e, by and large, younger attorneys with small to medium -sized practices. They are of the generation of new wealth that is taking over from the old money that need a family office in a place such as Bermuda to manage their wealth. And Mr. Simons may well have hit on a most important thing by having Bermuda both nurture, stimulate, drive and ensure that the legislative structures and policy structures are put in place to open up business to small practices, law firms in this country who have both the skill and wherewithal to form relationships and associationships with the world, and then bring business here and let lawyers travel to those territories of the over-seas partners. Much can come of it. And I think it is worth exploring. And I thank Mr. Simons for his insights coming as they do from his vast experience in managing private wealth in the country. Ms. Leah Scott, the [Deputy] Opposition Leader, makes the other part of my argument, and I add her argument to Mr. Simons’, that the decisionmakers attrac t as a magnet business to Bermuda. If they are not establishing presence and her lament was that we just were not present. Then that has not hing to do with the PLP’s policy. I mean, the carriers of this ball are, like it was in the days when the Bermuda company was established —
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYes, point of clarification. POINT OF CLARIFICATION
Ms. Leah K. ScottMy comment was that we are not present in Asia and Hong Kong. And I am not attri buting that to the fault of any Government. And it is not the fault of the Government. It is the fact that we just have not been in Asia. I do not …
My comment was that we are not present in Asia and Hong Kong. And I am not attri buting that to the fault of any Government. And it is not the fault of the Government. It is the fact that we just have not been in Asia. I do not attribute that to the Government, but I think that for the law firms it is us and our marketing and business development techniques. We cannot afford to fly to Asia every month or every other month. So having a physical presence there will assist us in 4290 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly bringing the business back to the jurisdiction. I lay no blame with anybody.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerHonourable Member. Hon. Michael J. Scott: Mr. Speaker, I was happy to receive that clarification, but it was unnecessary be-cause I was not suggesting for a moment that the Deputy Opposition Leader was saying that. I was sa ying that it is an allegation that is thrown by other Members, …
Honourable Member. Hon. Michael J. Scott: Mr. Speaker, I was happy to receive that clarification, but it was unnecessary be-cause I was not suggesting for a moment that the Deputy Opposition Leader was saying that. I was sa ying that it is an allegation that is thrown by other Members, her colleagues. I know that was what Mr. Moniz has been suggesting. And not just Mr. Moniz, we have been hearing it historically. But I know that what Ms. Scott was saying was just what she said. I understood it to be the same, just as she said, that she noted from her colleagues that there was not a presence and there ought to be a presence. It is a marketing tool to have a presence. And what I am saying, Leah, is that it is not the fault of the PLP or any PLP administration as public leadership, that private sector law firms are not present when we say they should be. That is the point I am making. That lies at the behest and feet of the private sector law firms who are meant to be out raising the flag as the Honourable Member —
Mr. Scott Pearma nPoint of order, Mr. Speaker. Hon. Michael J. Scott: —Attorney General continues to make. The Speaker: Point of order. POINT OF ORDER [Misleading]
Mr. Scott PearmanPoint of order, Mr. Speaker, yes. I am afraid the Honourable and Learned Member is misleading the House. The Bermuda law firms are in Asia. The Bermuda law firms are flying the flag. The problem is that other jurisdictions are trying to get the same business and they are more …
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Hon. Michael J. Scott: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. So, those are my observations and remarks. So I am obviously very happy to be supportive of Mi nister Furbert’s Bill, both as a Member of the PLP party and as a practicing lawyer who understands how these decisions and …
Thank you.
Hon. Michael J. Scott: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. So, those are my observations and remarks. So I am obviously very happy to be supportive of Mi nister Furbert’s Bill, both as a Member of the PLP party and as a practicing lawyer who understands how these decisions and how these facilities within the law can bring business to our Island and keep lawyers employed who keep a staff employed, who keep Bermuda employed. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member. Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak? No other Member? Minister, would you like to wrap us up and take us to Committee? Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Do you hear me?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYes, we hear you clearly. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Mr. S peaker, first of all, let me thank the Premier, the Honourable David Burt, who is really the Minister responsible for BDA [Bus iness Development Agency] and the business and d evelopment side here in Bermuda. But he gave me …
Yes, we hear you clearly.
Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Mr. S peaker, first of all, let me thank the Premier, the Honourable David Burt, who is really the Minister responsible for BDA [Bus iness Development Agency] and the business and d evelopment side here in Bermuda. But he gave me the opportunity to work on this pr oject here. I am not sure if many of you are aware that in 2012 I had the opportunity to visit with [INAUDIBLE] at that time, China, on behalf of the Progressive Labour Party, under the premiership of Paula Cox. And guess who was there. Appleby. It was at that time, Mr. Speaker, I said to m yself, Why can’t other law firms practice in Bermuda as Conyers, or Appleby was practicing in China? We left China, and it was not long after that that China Re (we signed an agreement over there in China) had been incor porated here in Bermuda. We t hen left and went to Hong Kong I believe that was Cheryl Packwood. And guess who was there. Appleby and Conyers. It gave me more determination to ask the question why other law firms would not be allowed to practice in Bermuda. Unfortunately, in 2012 the Progressive Labour Party lost the election. In 2017, when we won the election again, I was Junior Minister of Finance. I again went to the Honourable David Burt and asked him if we could look at overseas law firms. And he agree d. So, we worked with the Registrar of Companies at the time putting in place procedures and Memoranda of Understanding to ensure that Bermudians had a fair shot if they wanted to set up any affiliations here in Bermuda. Let us say that most of those law firm partners, at least the key ones, are Bermudian. We made it very clear to them that we would expect that their partnership looked more like what Bermuda looks like. Hence, Walkers [(Bermuda)], Carey Olsen [(Bermuda Limited)] and the others came. Last year I again spoke to the Premier about the registered associates, because I was aware (that is coming, again, working as Junior Minister of F inance, so I had some information) that things were not as they should be. And what do I mean by that? At that tim e there were about 50- some registered ass ociates that were registered from Bermuda. Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: Point of order, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerPoint of order? Yes. Bermuda House of Assembly POINT OF ORDER [Misleading] Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: At least two of those law firms were here before 2017. I am sure the Honourable Member does not intend to mislead the House, but Walkers and Harneys certainly were here before 2017, because …
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMember? Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Sorry, the Honourable Member would recall, Mr. Speaker, that they were being challenged, hence what we saw working on— Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: That did not stop because of the Government, though. The challenge went the route that it went until there was a res …
The SpeakerThe SpeakerLet’s not go back and forth. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Mr. Speaker, so, at that time for registered associates there were 30 registered associates overseas from Conyers, and about 15 from Appleby. So, we looked at the opportunity of regis tering associates, hence why we are pushing this today. But …
Let’s not go back and forth.
Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Mr. Speaker, so, at that time for registered associates there were 30 registered associates overseas from Conyers, and about 15 from Appleby. So, we looked at the opportunity of regis tering associates, hence why we are pushing this today. But we [will] not stop here, Mr. Speaker. The Premier is very concerned to ensure that we want to expa nd opportunity in their market and working with BDA . . . they are doing such. Members are quit e aware and would reme mber that there used to be a time when Bermuda had 75 per cent of the Hong Kong stock exchange. We currently have 25 per cent. Cayman has 50 per cent. In 2018 the number of companies that were registered from Hong Kong that we have li sted here were 45— 12 per cent. And Cayman registered 309 companies. And I asked the question, tell me one of the reasons why. For registered associates . . . a company may go to a law firm and say Look, I want to do some work in Bermuda. And they will sa y, Well, hold on, you have to wait 13 hours before they open to get some legal advice (if they went with Conyers or Appleby at the time). But they may say, We can give you some advice now because we are affiliated (or a registered associate, per se) with t he Cayman Islands . I think that is probably one of the reasons why we lost some of the business on top of . . . and I agree with the Honourable Member. First of all, let me thank the Honourable Member, Honourable and Learned Member, Mr. Pearman, and other Members for their support. He is quite right on pretty much everything that he spoke about in r egard to registered associates. We have dropped the ball over the years, particularly regarding the Asian market. And some things have to do with cost. There is no doubt about it. So, I am sure the Minister of F i-nance will be looking at that. I fortunately had the opportunity to meet with a law firm yesterday that is affi liated with the Honourable Member Pearman, talking about . . . and with the BDA, by the way, talking about how we can attract more business here. One way that was talked about was that the Registrar of Companies’ [ROC] fees were high. And where Cayman charges a fee, then they charge a fee on every type of transaction that may go through ROC on. So then it catches up. But to give you an idea, the perception of me paying, let’s say $20,000 compared to $3,000 or $5,000, may at that time cause the co mpany to say, Okay, I’ll go to the Cayman Islands. So, where Cayman charges additional fees for transac-tions as they go along , we charge $20,000 (just to give you an idea), and then no additional fees. So, I am sure the Minister of Finance will look and take those fees under consideration about how we can make certain things like that happen. So, we are [AUDIO SKIP ] of the Members’ support and we continue. The BDA and myself are meeting on Monday with another law firm on how we can attract more business here in Bermuda, partic ularly from the Asian market. So we are not sleeping. The RA [ Register of Associ ates] was the first stage to get us more, maybe, clear as far as what RA meant so that the Bar had no problem with its interpretation with what their information suggests, or legislation put forward by our local law firms in Bermuda of how we can change some other legislation to attract additional business. So, I am sure the Premier and Cabinet will be looking at those recommendations on how we can take further steps to attract business. If there is ever an opportunity everybody is quite aware that now is more of an opportunity on how we can get that bus iness here based on the up- rise and the uncertainty within the Hong Kong market. I will just talk briefly about the international law firms. An international law firm that you are aware of , and I heard the Honourable Member Trevor Moniz mention, they have sent a lot of Bermudians overseas to work at their law firms overseas. So that is a benefit for us. They have attracted business here from overseas to do transactions. I heard the Honourable Member Cole Si mons [ask] about how can small law firms . . . I’ve been to small law firms and they said, Why can’t you gentlemen go to (I don’t know, say, ) ABC International law firm and work with them? Why can’t you just do that? So you form an affiliate with ABC Law Firm. Many of you are aware that I am a CPA and I used to work for an accounting firm called Grey & Kempe when I first got involved. That accounting firm event ually became Price Waterhouse. They were Grey & Kempe and Price Waterhouse. Now they are combined, now they are PricewaterhouseCoopers. Pric ewaterhouseCoopers has the larger footprint around the world and they can do many more things. So I was 4292 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly saying to this particular law firm, Why can’t you work with attracting . . . because it is there. I am sure other international law firms would love to get in Bermuda where they can form partnerships with some of the smaller law firms here. On top of that, my good friend the Honourable Member and former Attorney General, Mark Pettingill, can . . . or any law fi rm, the Honourable Member Michael Scott, could hire. That is what the clause in 14(35) —
The SpeakerThe SpeakerHonourable Member, you should not be speaking to the clauses now. Take us to Commi ttee and then we can discuss the clauses in Commi ttee. Hon. Wayne L. Fu rbert : [INAUDIBLE ] I was speaking to clauses, Mr. Speaker. It allows an individual to hire a barrister or …
Honourable Member, you should not be speaking to the clauses now. Take us to Commi ttee and then we can discuss the clauses in Commi ttee. Hon. Wayne L. Fu rbert : [INAUDIBLE ] I was speaking to clauses, Mr. Speaker. It allows an individual to hire a barrister or a registered associate. Then that regi stered associate can be deployed overseas. So those things [AUDIO SKIP] Honourable Member and I can talk more about it in Committee. But that allows that to happen. Mr. Speaker, with those few remarks, I move that the Bill be committed.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Minister. The Minister has now moved us into Commi ttee. The Deputy Speaker will now take us into Committee. House in Committee at 8:12 pm [Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr., Chairman] COMMITTEE ON BILL BERMUDA BAR AMENDMENT ACT 2020
The ChairmanChairmanThank you, Mr. Speaker. Members, we are now in Committee of the whole [House ] for further consideration of the Bill ent itled Bermuda Bar Amendment Act 2020 . Minister, you have the floor. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Mr. Chairman, I would like to move all of the clauses, if …
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Members, we are now in Committee of the whole [House ] for further consideration of the Bill ent itled Bermuda Bar Amendment Act 2020 . Minister, you have the floor.
Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Mr. Chairman, I would like to move all of the clauses, if anyone does not have a problem with it. Clauses 1 through 7.
The ChairmanChairmanContinue. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Clause 1 is self -explanatory. Clauses 2 through 4 make amendments to the Bermuda Bar Act 1974. Clause 2 makes several amendments to section 14 of the Act to provide for the registration of associates working in other jurisdictions. [Section] 14(3) is being repealed and …
Continue. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Clause 1 is self -explanatory. Clauses 2 through 4 make amendments to the Bermuda Bar Act 1974. Clause 2 makes several amendments to section 14 of the Act to provide for the registration of associates working in other jurisdictions. [Section] 14(3) is being repealed and replaced with a new subsection to reformat that section and provide a new requir e-ment for payment of an application fee that is being established under this Bill. A new subsection (3)(a) is being inserted to provide that a barrister or law firm in Bermuda may submit an application for registration of an associate who meets the conditions set out in section 14(5). Section 14(5) is being repealed and replaced with a new subsection that establishes conditions for registration of associates who are located overseas. This includes persons who are directly employed by a barrister or law firm in Bermuda who works outside of Bermuda and persons who are employed by a barri ster or law firm outside of Bermuda [AUDIO SKIP] with a law firm in Bermuda. Clause 3 inserts a new section 14A to establish a defined period for which an associate’s registr ation is valid. There will now be an initial registration period followed by four -year renewal periods. Applic ation for renewal of any registration must be submitted by the barrister or law firm currently included on the register and must satisfy the requirements of this new section. Clause 4 amends section 16 of the Act by adding a new paragraph (e) to require the Registrar to remove the name of any registered associate whose initial registration or renewal period has expired. Clause 5 amends [section] 4A the Companies Act 1981 by inserting a new s ubsection (3B). This new subsection will empower the Minister (that is, the Mi nister responsible for Finance, Companies) to impose conditions concerning the Registration of Associates working overseas on any grant or consent to provide legal services to th e public. Clause 6 amends the Government Fees Regulations 1976. A new Head 5A is to be inserted to es-tablish new application fees in respect of registered associates. The application fees are as follows: $215 for applying for registration as an associate to be l ocated in Bermuda; $625 for applying to register an associate to be located outside of Bermuda; and $560 for applying to renew the registration of any associate. Clause 7 deals with savings and transitional matters and provides that any person who w as regi stered as an associate immediately prior to the commencement of these amendments shall continue to be registered as an associate thereafter. Persons must retain a registration according to the designated time period or renewal. Thank you, Mr. Chairm an.
The ChairmanChairmanAre there a ny further speakers?
Mr. Scott PearmanThank you. Bermuda House of Assembly Minister, I just have two questions arising in Committee. I do not know if others w ill have questions or not. My questions both arise in relation to clause 2. Firstly, if you look at page 2 of the Bill, under clause 2(3), you …
Thank you.
Bermuda House of Assembly Minister, I just have two questions arising in Committee. I do not know if others w ill have questions or not. My questions both arise in relation to clause 2. Firstly, if you look at page 2 of the Bill, under clause 2(3), you see “(3A)” which states “An applic ation for registration of an associate may be submitted by a barrister, firm or professional company in Berm uda in respect of a person who meets the conditions set out . . . .” So, there is what I call a regulatory saf eguard. And I was just hopeful that you might elaborate a little bit on the interplay between the Government and the registration process and what the Gover nment will be looking at to ensure that everything is above board.
Mr. N. H. Cole SimonsI would like to dir ect the Mi nister to clause 2 [new section 14] (5). There it says you have to “be [(a)] employed in Bermuda to perform the functions . . . [(b)] employed in a jurisdiction outside Bermuda [by] a barrister . . . .” My question …
I would like to dir ect the Mi nister to clause 2 [new section 14] (5). There it says you have to “be [(a)] employed in Bermuda to perform the functions . . . [(b)] employed in a jurisdiction outside Bermuda [by] a barrister . . . .” My question to the Minister is, Do we have to have an employment contract ? Can the junior assoc iate or registered associate have a consultancy contract or a business development contract or a junior partner contract, instead of [being an] employee? B ecause either way they are still producing business for a Bermuda firm and they are not necessarily salaried. So I find the “salary” language to be restrictive and I wonder if you could extend that to include other consultancy agreements, business development agreements, or partnership contracts once the junior ass ociate, or the associate, has been approved by the Bar Association. They do not have to be salaried emplo yees—
The ChairmanChairmanHonourable Member, are you asking a question and giving the answer?
The ChairmanChairmanRight. It sounded like you were giving the answer also.
The ChairmanChairmanOkay. Minister, can you reply? Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: On both of those questions, Honourable Member Simons’ and Pearman’s, I can get that to you. But I what I would have thought, Ho n-ourable Member Cole, is that your point is . . . I am not sure.
Mr. N. H. Cole SimonsThat’s all right. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: I am not sure. I would have thought that if they are hired as a lawyer . . . they are a lawyer but they are a registered associate with that particular law firm, or professional company. I am not sure if they …
That’s all right.
Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: I am not sure. I would have thought that if they are hired as a lawyer . . . they are a lawyer but they are a registered associate with that particular law firm, or professional company. I am not sure if they can work as a private consultant or not. I am not sure what agreements the law firms . . . and they will get together and work out what type of transaction or business contract —
Mr. N. H. Cole SimonsClause 2 [new section 14] (5). So, I am saying that Marc Daniels is a Bermuda law firm and he went to the University of Buckingham [ INAUDIBLE ] with someone from Hong Kong. And they say, Well, let’s form an agreement whereby you be my representative through subcontract and …
Clause 2 [new section 14] (5). So, I am saying that Marc Daniels is a Bermuda law firm and he went to the University of Buckingham [ INAUDIBLE ] with someone from Hong Kong. And they say, Well, let’s form an agreement whereby you be my representative through subcontract and you can now f eed business to Bermuda. You don’t have to be an employee. You have to be approved by the Bar. But you can have a legal contract, i.e., become a junior partner, or you can have a consultancy contract, or you could have a business development contract, and that way you can still feed business to Bermuda and also be the registered associate. I don’t mind you going to take advice on it, but I just want to know if that will be entertained because that is a real possibility, quite frankly.
The ChairmanChairmanMinister, can you reply? Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Honourable Member, I do not see a real problem with that. I mean, I will get some further clarification on that. But the main thing is them becoming a registered associate. What happens after that, I am not sure at that point. …
The ChairmanChairmanAny further speakers? Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: But just to finish, I do not see any real . . . what relationship they have, as long as they become a registered associate in Bermuda, then [AUDIO SKIP].
Mr. N. H. Cole SimonsI agree with you. 4294 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly The Chairman: Any further comments?
Mr. Scott PearmanThank you, Minister. I think the suggestion of the Chairman was that you might think about it further and come back to us. In fact, it is my fault. I referred you to the word “condition” in subsection (3A), at page 2, in clause 2. That was my error. I …
Thank you, Minister. I think the suggestion of the Chairman was that you might think about it further and come back to us. In fact, it is my fault. I referred you to the word “condition” in subsection (3A), at page 2, in clause 2. That was my error. I meant to refer you to [clause] 5, [amending section 4A, new subsection] (3B) and the conditions referred to there. But we can take up that discussion offline. And my final question, Mr. Chairman, with your leave . . .
Mr. Scott PearmanMinister, my final question is obviously when you opened the debate, you mentioned that in line with your intent to open up Bermuda to i nternational law firms you wanted to ensure that new firms are operating on the ground in Bermuda and not just setting what you described as …
Minister, my final question is obviously when you opened the debate, you mentioned that in line with your intent to open up Bermuda to i nternational law firms you wanted to ensure that new firms are operating on the ground in Bermuda and not just setting what you described as the minimal foot-print. And obviously that is the point at which the Bar Counsel and some of the speakers tonight have seen this as a most controversial point. So, if the Mi nister could kindly respond as to what s teps are being put in place, or are in place, just to ensure that those who are coming in here from overseas are actually working here and are not a minimal footprint. And that is my final question, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
The ChairmanChairmanThank you, Member . Minister. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: If I recall, Honourable Member, there is an MOU signed . . . or there are some policies at ROC [Registrar of Companies], and if the Minister of Finance wants . . . or will give permission, it has to look …
Thank you, Member . Minister. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: If I recall, Honourable Member, there is an MOU signed . . . or there are some policies at ROC [Registrar of Companies], and if the Minister of Finance wants . . . or will give permission, it has to look at those requir ements to ensure there is no mini mum requirement. So, again, I can get back to you and if the i nformation is needed, I can get back to you also.
The ChairmanChairmanOkay. Any further questions concerning clauses 1 through 7? Minister, do you want to move the clauses? Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Yes. Mr. Chairman, I move clauses 1 through 7 . . . The Chairman: Be approved? Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: I move that the preamble be approved.
The ChairmanChairmanHang on. You’re moving that clauses 1 through 7 to be approved? You did not finish your sentence. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Yes. Sorry. I move that clauses 1 through 7 be approved.
The ChairmanChairmanIt has been moved that clauses 1 through 7 be approved. Are there any objections to that? There appear to be none. Approved. [Motion carried: Clauses 1 through 7 passed.] Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: I move that the preamble be approved.
The ChairmanChairmanIt has been moved that the preamble be approved. Are there any objections to that? There appear to be none. Approved. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: I move that the Bill be r eported to the House as printed.
The ChairmanChairmanIt has been moved that the Bill be reported to the House. Are there any objections to that? There appear to be none. The Bill will be reported to the House. [Motion carried: The Bermuda Bar Amendment Act 2020 was considered by a Committee of the whole House and passed …
The ChairmanChairmanThank you, Minister and Members. House resumed at 8:25 pm [Hon. Dennis P. Lister, Jr., Speaker, in the Chair] REPORT OF COMMITTEE BERMUDA BAR AMENDMENT ACT 2020
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Deputy. The Bill has been reported to the House. Are there any objections to the Bermuda Bar Amendment Act 2020 being reported to the House as printed? No objections? Bermuda House of Assembly The Bill has been reported and accepted in the House and that now brings that …
Thank you, Deputy. The Bill has been reported to the House. Are there any objections to the Bermuda Bar Amendment Act 2020 being reported to the House as printed? No objections?
Bermuda House of Assembly The Bill has been reported and accepted in the House and that now brings that matter to a close, and actually brings us to a close of the Orders of the Day. We now are on t hird readings, starting with the first item of the day, which was the Cost of Living Commission Amendment Act 2020, in the name of the Premier. Premier, would you like to do your third rea ding?
SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDER 21
Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you, very much, Mr. Speak er. Mr. Speaker, I move that Standing Order 21 be suspended to enable me to move that the Bill ent itled Cost of Living Commission Amendment Act 2020 be read for a third time by its title only.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAny objections? No objections. [Motion carried: Standing Order 21 suspended.]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerContinue, Premier. BILL THIRD READING COST OF LIVING COMMISSION AMENDMENT ACT 2020 Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move that the Bill entitled the Cost of Living Commission Amendment Act 2020 be read for a third time by its title only and passed.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAny objections? It has been read by its title for the third time and accepted by the House. So the Bill has now passed. [Motion carried: The Cost of Living Commission Amendment Act 2020 was read a third time and passed.]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThe second third reading is for the Public Health Amendment (No. 2) Act 2020 in the name of the Minister of Health. Minister Wilson. SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDER 21 Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I move that Standing Order 21 be suspended to enable me …
The second third reading is for the Public Health Amendment (No. 2) Act 2020 in the name of the Minister of Health. Minister Wilson.
SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDER 21
Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I move that Standing Order 21 be suspended to enable me to move that a Bill entitled Public Health Amendment (No. 2) Act 2020 be now read for a third time by its title only.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAny objections? No objections. [Motion carried: Standing Order 21 suspended.]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerContinue, Minister. BILL THIRD READING PUBLIC HEALTH AMENDMENT (NO. 2) ACT 2020 Hon. Kim N. Wilson: I move that the Bill be read for a third time by its title only and passed.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThe Bill has be en read a third time by its title only and has been accepted by the House. So it has passed. [Motion carried: Public Health Amendment (No. 2) Act 2020 was read a third time and passed.]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThat now takes us on to the third item on the Orders of the Day, which is the Contributory Pensions Temporary Amendment Act 2020, in the name of the Minister of Finance. Minister. SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDER 21 Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker, I move that Standing Order 21 …
That now takes us on to the third item on the Orders of the Day, which is the Contributory Pensions Temporary Amendment Act 2020, in the name of the Minister of Finance. Minister.
SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDER 21 Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker, I move that Standing Order 21 be suspended to enable me t o move that the Bill entitled Contributory Pensions Temporary Amendment Act 2020 be now read for a third time by its title only.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAny objections? No objections. [Motion carried: Standing Order 21 suspended.]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerContinue, Minister. BILL THIRD READING CONTRIBUTORY PENSIONS TEMPORARY AMENDMENT ACT 2020 Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: I move that the Bill be read for a third time by its title only and passed. 4296 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly The Speaker: The Bill has been read …
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: I move that the Bill be read for a third time by its title only and passed.
4296 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly The Speaker: The Bill has been read a third time by its title only and has been accepted by the House. So it is now passed.
[Motion carried: The Contributory Pensions T emporary Amendment Act 2020 was read a third time and passed.]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerWe now move on to the next item, which is in the name of the Minister of Cabinet, the Bermuda Bar Amendment Act 2020. Minister. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker, I have another one.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerOh, that’s right. I’m sorry. The National Pension, I forgot you had two today, Minister of F inance. We were racing to get to the end. Minist er of Finance, would you like to do your second one? Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Let me help you get there to the …
Oh, that’s right. I’m sorry. The National Pension, I forgot you had two today, Minister of F inance. We were racing to get to the end. Minist er of Finance, would you like to do your second one?
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Let me help you get there to the end then.
SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDER 21
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker, I move that Standing Order 21 be suspended to enable me to move that the Bill entitled National Pension Scheme (Occupational Pensions) Temporary Amendment Act 2020 be now read for a third time by its title only.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAny objections? No objections. [Motion carried: Standing Order 21 suspended.]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerContinue, Minister. BILL THIRD READING NATIONAL PENSION SCHEME (OCCUPATIONAL PENSIONS) TEMPORARY AMENDMENT ACT 2020 Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: I move that the Bill be read for a third time by its title only and passed.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThe Bill has be en read a third time by its title only and has been accepted by the House. So it has passed. [Motion carried: The National Pension Scheme (O ccupational Pensions) Temporary Amendment Act 2020 was read a third time and passed.]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMinister of Cabinet, would you like to do yours now? Minister. SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDER 21 Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move that Standing Order 21 be suspended to enable me to move the Bill entitled Bermuda Bar Amendment Act 2020 be now read for a …
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAny objections? No objections. [Motion carried: Standing Order 21 suspended.]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerContinue, Minister. BILL THIRD READING BERMUDA BAR AMENDMENT ACT 2020 Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: I move that the Bill be now read a third time by its title only and passed.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThe Bill has been read a third time by its title only and has been accepted by the House. So it has been approved and passed. [Motion carried: The Bermuda Bar Amendment Act 2020 was read a third time and passed.]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThat now brings us to the conclusion of the matters for today. Mr. Premier? ADJOURNMENT Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I move that the Honourable House do now adjourn until Friday July 3rd, at 10:00 am. And, Mr. Speaker, I am aware some of my …
The SpeakerThe SpeakerI was going to say any objections to that? There are no objections to that. Would anyone like to speak to that matter.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerSounds like the Opposition Leader’s voice.
Ms. Leah K. ScottDeputy. Bermuda House of Assembly The Speaker: Deputy Opposition Leader, rather.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerHonourable Member you have the floor. SYSTEMIC RACISM IN BERMUDA
Ms. Leah K. Sco ttThank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today, June 19 th, is Juneteenth. And it is a big holiday in the States because it commemorates the date that the slaves were freed. What is disturbing about Juneteenth, though, Mr. Speaker, is that Abraham Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation in 1863. And …
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today, June 19 th, is Juneteenth. And it is a big holiday in the States because it commemorates the date that the slaves were freed. What is disturbing about Juneteenth, though, Mr. Speaker, is that Abraham Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation in 1863. And the message of freedom was not delivered to the slaves until two and a half years later. And here we are some 420 years later still trying to —
[Crosstalk]
Ms. Leah K. ScottWe have always been at a disa dvantage. So, Mr. Speaker, it is coincidental that Juneteenth is coinciding with the global protests going on around the world about the death of George Floyd and the Black Lives Matter protests. But the truth is, Mr. Speaker, we, as blacks, have been …
We have always been at a disa dvantage. So, Mr. Speaker, it is coincidental that Juneteenth is coinciding with the global protests going on around the world about the death of George Floyd and the Black Lives Matter protests. But the truth is, Mr. Speaker, we, as blacks, have been marching for years. We marched in Selma, we marched in Was hington, we marched in Atlanta. And the truth is that the only time that change has ever really come is after we have created a ruckus. But the change has not been sincere and it has not gotten to the systemic and inst itutional level that is needed to make a lasting change. Mr. Speaker, we cannot keep marching. And I believe that while real change is starting and is in pr ocess, it has not come. And the marching, in my opi nion, is just a symbol. So I think my leader spoke today, and one of your Members, MP Furbert, spoke, about a directive to boycott the Supermart after the Black Lives Matter march. And so I get the whole desire to use economic withdrawal as a means to perpetuate change. But I am glad that it was withdrawn by the organisers, because the truth of the matter is that a lot of those people— and there were a lot of white people out—a lot of those people are family members of the owners of the Supermart, who may not have gotten it for years, b ut they are trying to get it. So for us to call for a boycott at the same time that we are marching in solidarity with white people and others did not make sense to me. If there is a price issue, then address the price issue separately. Black lives do mat ter, but you cannot conflate the two issues. So I thought that was counterproductive and I am glad that they decided not to do it. Mr. Speaker, the real issue is that the marches are just scratching the surface. What this Black Lives Matter issue has done is demonstrate that corporate leadership is in trouble. And people are looking for the corporate leaders to respond in a pos itive way. And we want to know how they are educating and re- educating the C suite, in particular, and how they are resettling thei r culture and ethos. We had a lot of companies make public statements and they are donating money and doing all these things. But throwing money does not create change; action does. So, like Nike and Adidas and Target and Uber made today, Juneteenth, a pa id hol iday, and yes, you know, they are taking steps. And that is in the US. I want to know what the companies in Bermuda are doing because there is an inherent racial bias, and outright structural racism in a lot of these exempted companies. And I know this because I have friends who work there and they share their stories with me. I was speaking with someone the other day who works at a large exempted company, who has a non-Bermudian woman working there, and has been a bully her entire time there. The wom an retired, and during the pandemic . . . and they know that she is a bully! She has on her HR files several instances of bullying. And they brought this woman back as a consultant during the pandemic. And she is in charge of mostly Bermudians, and mostly Bermudians of colour. So, change has to come at many levels. What are the banks doing in respect of their lending practices? How are businesses adjusting their compensation packages so that when they have two employees, and we are on par at every level but for the fact that one is white and one is black, there should not be any difference in our compensation from bonuses to housing allowances to cars to wha tever they get, we should get. Mr. Speaker, George Floyd’s murder has been the catalyst for a lot of reflection. And I hope that it leads to consistent constructive change, not only for racial justice but for social justice, economic justice and employment justice. But, Mr. Speaker, tearing down statues and renaming squares and streets and buildings and changing the names of cereal and rice is just race washing. We have to get in front of the businesses and the companies and the organisations that perpetuate systemic institutionalised racism. And if we do not, then we are going to keep marching and perfor ming symbolic gestures that have no substance or lasting impact or legacy. Mr. Speaker, we marched last week for a man who died in Minneapolis, Minnesota, because we wanted to stand in solidarity with a common cause. And the whole world stood in solidarity with that cause. And the reach has been amazing. I mean, from Minneapolis to Milan, to Africa, it has been phenom enal. 4298 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly Mr. Speaker, I want to bring it back home and I want to ask, although we marched last Sunday, do only certain black lives matter in Ber muda?
DEPARTMENT OF CHILD AND FAMILY SERVICES
Ms. Leah K. ScottWe had the Attorney General on Facebook giving a live Facebook thing on cannabis, but to date has not effectively addressed the outstanding issues of DCFS [Department of Child and Family Services]. Mr. Speaker, the Attorney General stated that the PLP Government is committed to doing ever ything that it …
We had the Attorney General on Facebook giving a live Facebook thing on cannabis, but to date has not effectively addressed the outstanding issues of DCFS [Department of Child and Family Services]. Mr. Speaker, the Attorney General stated that the PLP Government is committed to doing ever ything that it can to prevent the maltreatment of our children and protect their rights. So if black lives matter, how is it that Mr. A lfred Maybury was given his job back , notwithstanding that there have been statement s by the victim s of the decisions of the Department of Child and Family Services which clearly stated that they were abused and mistreated? If the black lives of the DCFS children matter, how does the Government conduct a onesided investigation by not bothering to interview the victim s? If the black lives of the DCFS children matter how does the Government in all good conscience i ntroduce a piece of legislation which erodes the rights of our children to have independent legal represent ation in the courts? Mr. Speaker, we have to have loving and compassionate professionals working in our child services department. I have said several times that the policies and the legislation that we implement as legislation makers has to be for the generation of children that is beyond us. And if we are not doing that, then we should not even be in our jobs, because we are the old generation. And our children do not have the same concerns or issues that we ha ve. Mr. Speaker, if the black lives of the DCFS children matter, then why is the litigation panel that has been embodied by the Government comprised of four women who all have links to the Department of Child and Family Services or the court system? And none of them have experience or training as a litigation guardian and none of them can be considered independent. Our children need people who are ind ependent and will make sure that the welfare of the child is paramount. If the black lives of the DCFS children matter, then the Court of Appeals would not have ruled last year, Mr. Speaker, that the Government has shown a flagrant disregard for children by failing to pay for them to have independent legal representation. Legal aid under its current legislation does not provide chi ldren with an automatic right to legal aid and children cannot apply for legal aid either. So, if black lives of all children matter, when is the Government going to a ddress this? Mr. Speaker, last year Saul Dismount, and I am sure everybody knows Saul, because he is a champion and an advocate for our children, and thank God for him and the things that he does. He wrote a paper, Mr. Speaker. And in that paper he raised an interesting question. He said, if I may quote, Mr. Speaker, pleas e. He said, “An interesting question to ask is why it is that British children in the British territory of Eng-land have the Rolls -Royce of child representation, yet British children in the British territory of Bermuda do not. “Could it be that all Britis h children are equal but some British children are more equal than ot hers?” Mr. Speaker, do the children’s lives and the black lives of our children in Bermuda, particularly those that have come under the care of the DCFS matter? Mr. Speaker, Whitney Hous ton wrote a song, and if you will allow me, I am going to sing it. I believe the children are our are f uture Teach them well and let them lead the way Show them all the beauty they possess i nside—
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberThat’s enough.
Ms. Leah K. Scott—Give them a sense of pride to make it easier Let the children's laughter —
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMember, I think we get your point. We get your point.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberLeah, Leah.
Ms. Leah K. Scott—remind us how we used to be. Mr. Speaker, the children are our future, we need to implement policies that are going to protect them and give them the life that they deserve. And as legislators and policymakers it is our responsibility and our duty to do so. And I …
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Member. Does any other Member wish to speak?
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberMr. Speaker. Another Hon. Member: Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerWho are you yielding to? No one else is speak ing, Mr. Famous.
Mr. Christopher FamousOkay, Mr. Speaker, I will take the microphone. Mr. Speaker, I am following the rules, I have my camera on so you know it is really me talking. Bermuda House of Assembly The Speaker: Yes, thank you, I appreciate that. SYSTEMIC RACISM IN BER MUDA
Mr. Christopher FamousMr. Speaker, there is a Bob Marley song by the name . . . [singing]: See de 'ypocrites, them a- galang deh! See de 'ypocrites — Mr. Speaker —
The SpeakerThe SpeakerI hope we’re not going to have all Members singing tonight!
Mr. Christo pher FamousI only did one bar. Mr. Speaker, last night the Honourable Premier David Burt, JP, MP, during the COVID -19 updates stated a few truths about our racial issues on TV . And lo and behold it seems some folks got upset and claimed he was “politick ing.” Mr. Speaker, …
I only did one bar. Mr. Speaker, last night the Honourable Premier David Burt, JP, MP, during the COVID -19 updates stated a few truths about our racial issues on TV . And lo and behold it seems some folks got upset and claimed he was “politick ing.” Mr. Speaker, two weeks ago we had people of all manner saying Black Lives Matter ; Black Lives Matter . But the minute we start talking about things that affect black people, some of those people get upset and start running to the news with all sorts of falsehood. Mr. Speaker, I personally, as a black man want to thank the Premier for not being afraid to speak on these issues, because for too long black people in leadership have been afraid to speak the real truths. Mr. Speaker, we are all concerned about COVID -19. So far we have had less than 10 deaths. But guess what, Mr. Speaker? [Systemic ] racism has made more blacks bankrupt, suffer with poor health and premature death than COVID -19 can ever do. So, let’s ask ourselves, What’s really the biggest pandemic in this country? Something from China, or something that’s home grown? I will let the people be the judge of that. You see, Mr. Speaker, the only people who believe that talking about race is political seem to be the same people who believe that racism will just magically disappear if we don’t talk about it. You know? Mr. Speaker, one of the fortunate things about the unfortunate murder of George Floyd was that more blacks and whites and persons of every persuasion are now openly demonstrating and talking about racism. I agree with the previous speaker. Just changing the name of Uncle Ben’s and Aunt Jemima is window dressing, because who is really making the money off of that syrup? Is it black people? Who is really making the money off of that rice? Is it black people? No? You see, Mr. Speaker, as leaders we should never be afraid to speak up on this disease. There was a black leader called Marcus Mosiah Garvey. You heard of him, Mr. Speaker? Mr. Speaker, Marcus Mosiah Garvey said, “Up, you mi ghty race, accomplish what you will.” Two weeks ago we saw 7,000 people attending a peaceful protest; 7,000 persons of every age, of every race, of every gender, and, I suspect, 7,000 persons of every Cup Match persuasion. Now that this moment has passed, let’s get back to some ugly truths. Mr. Speaker, we find ourselves as black people in a majority black country constantly depending on rich whites for our economic survival. Just today we were debating Bills about law firms and different things. All of t hat is about bringing in foreign wealth to help us to survive. But we need to talk about how we are going to create our own wealth, because unless we own Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben’s , we are just consumers. Mr. Speaker, some people are cowards and afraid to speak up in public. They send you a Whats App message or they write something on Inbox and say, Oh, that was a good speech. But they will never come out in public and say that because they are cowards. But not this Government, Mr. Speaker. We are not afr aid of saying the truth. Mr. Speaker, as black people we have to take onus for our own economic future. As black people we have advocated our place in the construction industry and now we beg other people to employ our sons. Mr. Speaker, as black people w e have advocated our place as business owners. And now we are begging other people to employ our daughters . You see, Mr. Speaker, just today we had a Bill that dealt with the cost of groceries and everybody is on the same tip saying, Well, you know, we ca n’t co ntrol the cost of groceries because, oh, shipping cost is high; oh, the fuel costs are high. Their ships don’t fuel up in Bermuda. They fuel up in America! Who are you blaming? When are we going to stop the excuses, Mr. Speaker? Here is the thing. I say to my Premier, Let’s be bold. Let’s stop complaining about ‘Well, we can’t control the cost of groceries, but here is an App.’ Let’s talk about who we are going to empower to open up our own grocery store. And don’t give me that excuse about Well, yo u know, co- op crashed. White bus inesses crash all the time and white people still reopen the next business. That is what we have to do. We have to stop making excuses, Mr. Speaker. I say we the people, not simply the Gover nment, because the Government al one cannot tackle systemic racism. We need our people to get skilled up by the Bermuda College and other routes that the Government has provided. We need our people to start businesses with the help of the BEDC, Bermuda Economic Development Corporation. We need our people to take better charge of their health by lowering their sugar intake. Last year, over the objections of the status quo— you know, those rich people— we began a di alogue about reducing the health care costs for Berm udian families. And guess who was complaining? Guess who was the biggest complainer? 4300 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly Mr. Speaker, over the last two years a committee chaired by MP Commissiong, and it also had the Honourable Leah Scott on there, has brought forth recommendations and progress is being made t owards a living wage. Immigration reform . . . I heard MP Cole Simons talk about what is up with Immigr ation reform. We have been working very hard on it. We passed one part of that. So, it is being worked on and we have a new chairman. Senator Crystal Caesar will be heading this up now. Mr. Speaker, we need our black people to be honest about what we have to do for ourselves. Sitting down and expecting the Government to do everything for you ain’t going to help you. Sitting down and expecting white people to just give us everything ain’t going to help. As black people we need to understand that the success of black people depends on how we interact with each other. When we open a business, do we support each other? Or do we take our money and give it to the pe ople who are rich already? When someone needs help building a house, do we go help? Or do we say, Oh well, you better go get a mortgage. That is what we as black people need to do. That is how we built our communities, 40, 50, 70, 100 years ago. When slav ery ended, nobody gave us anything. It was the friendly societies and the lodges that worked together with other organisations to build up our communities. We did not have any help from white people. And we were successful. We need to take a page out of our elders’ books. Mr. Speaker, I don’t know about other Go vernments, but this Government that was elected three years ago, the Government that you are a part of, we did not get elected to facilitate other people getting jobs and other people increasing the ir generational wealth. We were elected to stand up for our people and, more importantly, to make our people stand up for themselves. And the first step in standing up for ourselves is being honest about ourselves. We have a lot of work to do as black people. And as the Honourable Leah Scott said, marching ain’t going to do it, because that march is going to be over after four hours and then we are back to square one. We have to start doing actions . So, when this Government starts bringing actions to leve l the playing fields, I do not want to hear any ignorance from the OBA. I do not want to hear any ignorance from the white people who were saying black lives matter two weeks ago, because we have to bring legislation and we have to bring consciousness to our people. Mr. Speaker, I want to declare this here: The Honourable David Burt, our Premier, through his Ca binet and through the caucus that I sit in, we were born for a time such as this. We will not apologise for speaking out about system tic racism and we will co ntinue to put programmes, big and small, in place to empower our black Bermudians. And most of all, Mr. Speaker, we will not be apologising for that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Hon. Jeanne J. Atherden: Mr. Speaker. Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member F amous. The Deputy Speaker has indicated that he would like to speak. Deputy Speaker. BERMUDA’S FIRST BLACK GOVERNOR Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, some folk s in Bermuda applauded the appointment of a black female to be our next …
Thank you, Honourable Member F amous. The Deputy Speaker has indicated that he would like to speak. Deputy Speaker.
BERMUDA’S FIRST BLACK GOVERNOR
Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, some folk s in Bermuda applauded the appointment of a black female to be our next Governor. You know, it’s shameful that it took the British 186 years to find a black person qualified to be the Governor of Bermuda. But is this appointment a reaction to Black Lives M atter? Mr. Speaker, I do not expect any change from the new Governor because she is a female and black, because she will not have any power, like the rest of them, to change anything but carrying out the direction of the FCO [Foreign and Commonwealth Offi ce], which has a legacy of white supremacy. Mr. Speaker , if they wanted to find a black Governor, we have plen-ty in Bermuda who are eminently qualified. I can name one: Renee Webb. But they do not want Renee Webb, because Renee Webb would do the right thing regardless of the direction from the FCO. So, they have to pick somebody that they can control, and they must be British. And I am not adv ocating for anybody black, white, pink to be Governor of Bermuda. When I put that suggestion out it will be for independence, and we will have our own G overnor. And as long as they are appointing, because I think right now they are trying to appease us by sen ding a black Governor, like something is going to change. The only thing I see changing with a black Governor i s that the narrative of black people will change, because they are black. Their narrative of blacks was written many years ago about us. And the narrative was not positive at all. So I do expect that. And if it is found by the oligarchs in Bermuda that she has become more friendly with other blacks in Berm uda, she will no doubt be reported to the FCO in the UK, because that is not what they are here to do. Mr. Speaker, let me say this. When we talk about Black Lives Matter, people are afraid to talk about the messy stuff. And if you do not deal with the messy stuff, we are not going to fix the situation we have in Bermuda. We are not going to fix the disparity, because that is the main one, the disparity that is in Bermuda, and it widens every year —the dis parity of income between blacks and whites. To me, that is the
Bermuda House of Assembly main gauge of whether your race relations, your r acial, or your social injustice is getting any better, because as long as they pay us the way that they do, less than whites, we will continue t o struggle, Mr. Speaker. And any time blacks make a move to be independent and stand up to the powers that be, they are ostracised. In fact, w e had Reverend Talbot who ran a school for the African Methodist Episcopal Churches in Bermuda, the first headmas ter who also became the president of the teachers’ union. And because of his involvement with Marcus Garvey, the Governor took what little money they gave to the school from them. And then they went on a rampage and they f inally forced him out of the count ry. Mr. Speaker, I have said this many times before, and I will keep saying it, when they continuously, for over eight years, have had their knees on the neck of Dr. Ewart Brown, the former Premier of this country, and their hands in the pockets of the taxpayers of Bermuda to the tune of over $8 million. And you see, I really believe that they are trying to make Dr. Brown an example because one of the reasons is that he and Colonel Burch brought in the Uighurs. Those Uighurs, their lives mattered also. I can remember being in a social gathering in London, representing the Government. I think it was probably in 2009, and one of these high- ranking . . . I don’t know if he was a civil servant, or what he was. But, I knew he was high ranking. And we had a conversation, and he said to me about the Uighurs . . . and [he was] basically sort of criticising. And I said to him, This is the way I look at it. I look at it as if you had a friend who did something for your son. Would you criticise them? And I said, Furth ermore, the US is supposed to be your closest ally. Why would you complain about this here? He said [using a British accent], I’ve got to go now. I said, well, that’s it, because I am not going to pander to anybody, nobody, regardless of who you are. Right is right. I stand on principle, Mr. Speaker. And yet, they still hold their knees —not one knee; they have about five knees on Dr. Brown’s neck after eight years of investigation. It reminds me of a case in London in 2017 in the UK when t hey arrested this black guy because he drove a BMW and he looked prosperous. And the charge was a firearms charge. And they had a warrant, and they went and searched his house. Well, they did not find any guns. They found just under $2,000 in cash in the safe. So they did not find the guns, and they said, Well, we’re going to charge you with money laundering. Well, they put him through hell for the next two years —charged him with terrorism, drug traffic king and everything else under the sun. And obviously, he was suspended from his job because he was a bank manager in the UK. And finally after two years they said there would be no more charges. [For] o ver two years he went through this. They even searched his mother’s house, had a warrant for her house. And they pulled everything out of her chest of drawers (whatever you call them), and they left everything on the floor. Everything on the floor. But when they finished they said they were dropping all charges because he was not guilty of anything. He ran up a bill of £ 140,000 in legal fees. He got the job back at the bank, but he was demoted. He did not get the job he had. And obviously, his salary went down. Thes e are the types of things that they do to black people. They just, based on how you look , you look prosperous, it is going ahead of them and they will arrest you. And, you know, it takes me to the si tuation on December the 2 nd, 2016, where they pe pper-sprayed seniors with the approval from Gover nment House, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am told that two police off icers used pepper spray at that time. And guess what, Mr. Speaker? Those two officers have been promoted. They have been promoted. But were they promoted as a reward for pepper -spraying seniors? And the police, they were not threatened in any way. But the y used pepper spray. They would have never used pepper spray on white folks. Not only that, the leaders of the People’s Campaign were taken to court. Minister Jason Hayward, Rev. Nicholas Tweed, and my cousin, one of my other cousins, Chris Furbert and others were taken to court, Mr. Speaker. After that , the Speaker of the House put a joint select committee together to look into the events of December the 2 nd. Mr. Speaker, what appalled me about the whole thing wa s that the police were summoned twice. And the Commissioner refused to let the police who were summoned to appear. Just imagine! The Police Commissioner going against the Legisl ators of this country, and they did not appear as sum-moned. And at that time, the Police Commissioner who went before them to give all the answers, he was not even here. But these folks, they defied this House by not attending, Mr. Speaker. And this was approved from Government House! The Government House said, Okay, you don’t have to do it. This is some of the history that the Gover nment House carr ied out there. They have no respect for black people, none whatsoever. Look at their hist ory! It has not been good at all, Mr. Speaker. When we look at the now administration of whites in this country in Government, responsible to the Government House, nothing has happened, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there have been people in this country, and I am going to repeat this again also. An MP had drugs in his container. But the investigation was stopped with the approval of Government House, Mr. Speaker. 4302 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly Not only that, Mr. Speaker, six investigating officers, based on an allegation from those who were charged, were taken to court by the Commissioner of Police. And that Commissioner of Police removed those six people, those six investigators from that case. Not only that, evidence that was taken was ordered returned to the owner of that container because the police put forensic investigation into it. Mr. Speaker, I never heard of such in my life! And this was allowed from Government House, Mr. Speaker. Thank God the six officers who were charged in court were exonerated, Mr. Speaker. Then you had a former [Attorney General] [who] admitted, in the Parliament , [to] illegally obtai ning information. There was no investigation, Mr. Speaker. Gov ernment House did not worry about that. I will bet you if that had been an [Attorney General] of this party, they would have been investigated. The [Attorney] General was found with secret stolen police files in his possession. And he said a former police commissioner gave it to him. None of them were charged. Not one was charged, Mr. Speaker. No full - scale investigation, nothing at all. Mr. Speaker, too many blacks in this country have been charged, evidence fabricated and a lot of our people have gone to prison over the years. And I would not doubt that it continues today. We are looked at as being criminal, untrustworthy and everything else. The history is written, is recorded, Mr. Speaker. Blacks in this country have been treated very hard. They had mor tgages called . In fact, when b lacks went to the bank for a loan, they had a different rate of i nterest because they were considered to be more risk. Well, you would be considered more risk because you did not make as much money as whites. So we had to pay more, Mr. Speaker. There have been some crimes in this country committed against blacks that are almost unforgiv able, Mr. Speaker. And look what they did to Dr. C. A. Smith, Mr. Speaker. He came back to Bermuda with qualifications from the USA. They would not let him practice in Bermuda. He had to go back to school in the UK and come back and work. Mr. Speaker, just imagine that, how they dealt with him. It was terrible. I can imagine today how he felt. And I am sure he carried that scar all the way through his life. There has been t oo much silence in this country to the social injustice in Bermuda, too much silence on the income disparity, Mr. Speaker —much too much silence. Too much silence on what Government House . . . When I can recall Marc Telemaque w as qualified to be the Commanding Officer of the Berm uda Regiment. And what did the Governor tell him? Well, you’re young. And he had the top marks to be the chief of the army. But the Governor says, Well, you’re young. You’ve got more time. And they gave it to a white gentleman. These are some of the injusti ces that we as blacks have to endure, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, Khalid Wasi wrote a letter this week to the editor. And if I may, Mr. Speaker, just read a few excerpts from it.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerGo ahead. Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: He said, “ 1The cunningness and subtle disguise, which saw the same knee pressed so firmly and comfortably upon our necks, was done so perniciously in Bermuda and just as openly. But it looked like it wasn’t happening and, if so, it was …
Go ahead.
Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: He said, “ 1The cunningness and subtle disguise, which saw the same knee pressed so firmly and comfortably upon our necks, was done so perniciously in Bermuda and just as openly. But it looked like it wasn’t happening and, if so, it was interpreted as the victims’ fault.” He says, “The lynchings to which I referred took place in banks and law firms where they did not have to use the name n****r; you just happened to be black and potentially progressive and your name would rol l around the banks like mud.” Mr. Speaker, let me read just one more excerpt. He says, “Of course, all of this will be firmly denied and many will say it is an unfair generalisation. However, the sense of entitlement is so deep that it is normalised and j ust the expected way. When you don’t follow the current, regardless of the reason, you are seen as wrong and improper.” I always read Khalid Wasi’s stuff. He was on the money on that one, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we must address . . . and I applaud thos e two young ladies who organised that pr otest march. But I think we cannot stop. We must ag-gressively pursue this disparity of income between blacks and whites. We must pursue the injustice that Government House has [meted] out to Dr. Brown. We must pursue the fabrication of lies and evidence to prosecute blacks and send them to prison. And we have got to stop making appointments based on race in this country. We want the Governor to take his knee off of the neck of Dr. Brown, Mr. Speaker. And I guess I have only got a couple of seconds left, Mr. Speaker. But, Mr. Speaker, I must say there is too much silence on social injustice in this country. I believe that we must step up, we must come up and make the noise and protest until we see some benefit.
The Sp eaker: Thank you, Deputy Speaker. Does any other Member wish to speak?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerOh, the Deputy got you a little t une that time, too, eh? [Laughter] UNWELCOMED CONSULTATION ON CANNABIS REFORM
Lt. Co l. Hon. David A. BurchHe could hold a note. In any case, Mr. Speaker, I just wanted to talk about consultation and what that means. Not the def inition of consultation in the Bermudian context when the PLP is in Government. That consultation means the ad vice you get from certain quarters that is …
He could hold a note. In any case, Mr. Speaker, I just wanted to talk about consultation and what that means. Not the def inition of consultation in the Bermudian context when the PLP is in Government. That consultation means the ad vice you get from certain quarters that is actually in order. The belief is that we are too dumb to figure it out ourselves. I refer specifically in relation to co nsultation about the cannabis consultation that is currently occurring.
[Inaudible conversat ions]
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberHello! Point of order. Another Hon. Member: Mr. Burgess, I think your mic is unmuted.
Lt. Col. Hon. David A. BurchOkay. According to the Oxford Dictionary, consultation means the action or process of formally consulting or discussing. I am sure I will be accused of playing the race card. But let me make my point crystal clear. I do not appreciate an yone of any colour descending into my country …
Okay. According to the Oxford Dictionary, consultation means the action or process of formally consulting or discussing. I am sure I will be accused of playing the race card. But let me make my point crystal clear. I do not appreciate an yone of any colour descending into my country and feeling at liberty to lecture us on what we should be doing. We certainly cannot do that in their country, and neither should we. The culprit this time is a non- Bermudian h uman rights lawyer, who while he should know the law clearly does not know what consultation means. I do not know his immigration status, but I do know he is not a registered voter in this country. These types of utterances are quite amazing to me, as it would not be accepted anywhere else in the world. It is a demon-stration of white privilege. We see it every day in anonymous posti ngs in the print media and online. The only difference here is that he published his name. I suspect it has more to do with plying for work than anything else. And of course, the media in this country are just really pathetic. Any Jack who presents themselves as a self -appointed expert can get on TV or in the newspaper, espousing their ignorance presented as informed fact simply because they arrived here on British Airways. In this case, someone whom I do not know, never heard of before, on the 10 th of June got banner headlines in the Royal Gazette , “Cannabis rules confused,” attributed to a lawyer. Mr. Speaker, I must ask if he could share these ideas on the website designed for this purpose. Or is he simply interested in grandstanding? Well, I am here to tell him, and any others who think that they have a right to tell anyone in this country what or how to do things, to stop and to start acting like the guests you are. We do not want to hear from you until you have demonstrated that you are more interested in this country than just making a buck. And while I am on the subject of cannabis, Mr. Speaker, I have already shared with the Attorney General and anyone else who would listen to me that we need to make it crystal clear that personal responsibility mu st be the hallmark of any change in the law. We have already seen irresponsibility by adults smo king cannabis wherever and whenever they like, and particularly around children. Any change in the law must provide for the protection of those children.
BERMUDA’S FIRST BLACK GOVERNOR
Lt. Col. Hon. David A. BurchMr. Speaker, now the second matter I wish to address involves our Constit ution and the announcement that we are getting a new English Governor who will take the following oath, the Oath of Allegiance : “I [and their name] do swear that I will be faithful and bear true …
Mr. Speaker, now the second matter I wish to address involves our Constit ution and the announcement that we are getting a new English Governor who will take the following oath, the Oath of Allegiance : “I [and their name] do swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Her Heirs and Successors, according to law. So help me God.” And the oath for the due execution of the office of Governor and Commander -in-Chief: “I [the name of the person] do swear that I will well and truly serve Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second in the office of Governor and Commander -in-Chief. So help me God.” Mr. Speaker, those oaths can be found in the First Schedule of the Bermuda Constitution Order 1968. I read those oaths so that those Bermudians celebrating this appointment will be in no doubt where her loyalties must lie. On her appointment as Governor to Bermuda, Ms. Lalgie (I do not know; I guess that is the proper pronunciation) has said, “I am i mmensely proud that I will serve Bermuda as its first female Governor.” Not first black female Governor, simply first female governor. One has to wonder. This 4304 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly appointment is quite an insult to the people of Berm uda, in my opi nion. Why do I say that? In my opinion, this appointment is designed to keep the natives from getting restless. It is straight out of the UBP playbook. Put a black face there, and they will feel somewhat appeased at still being ruled from Whitehall. I for one am not buying it. I know that I am in the minority by being in favour of independence for this country, but this window -dressing will not fool many of us. And then there is the matter, Mr. Speaker, of what I call the muck -de-muff, or the hoi polloi. Those are the people who line up in this country to be the first to host new governors. They have first shot at influencing the new guy, or in this case gal, and get-ting on the preferred list for invitations to Langton Hill. What will be interesting, Mr. S peaker, is whether there will be the plethora of invitations extended to this i ncoming Governor that has been extended to all of her predecessors. There are only two differences between her predecessors and her. She is female and black - skinned, but they are all British. And we should never forget that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Minister. Does any other Member wish to speak?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMP Commissiong, you have the floor. BERMUDA’S FIRST BLACK GOVERNOR
Mr. Rolfe CommissiongYes, sir. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I too support Minister Burgess’s position as just articulated with respect to the pending arrival of the new Governor. I took notice of the fact that when asked how she felt about her appointment (not in so many words), she is prepared to celebrate …
Yes, sir. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I too support Minister Burgess’s position as just articulated with respect to the pending arrival of the new Governor. I took notice of the fact that when asked how she felt about her appointment (not in so many words), she is prepared to celebrate the fact that she was going to be the first woman appointed as Governor. But she has been appointed in a country that has a black majority with a fairly tortured racial history. But from my standpoint she ran away from, I’m happy to be the first black Governor to. . . as fast as she could run. So that is not a good sign at all. Like the Minister, I am unapologetically proindependence. I would assume he too believes, as I do, that we have got to put in place some major changes internally tackling the systemic racism being high on the list before we can be ready to have a more sustainable, independent Bermuda. Hopefully, this per iod will begin to mark that new stage of this long journey into constitutional independence from the UK. Hope springs eternal, and I remain optimistic.
SYSTEMIC RACISM IN BERMUDA
Mr. Rolfe CommissiongI heard Mr. Chris Famous, the Member of Parliament, put forth one of his better presentations tonight on that issue. And it appeared to me that there was a great antipathy towards the degree of animus coming from certain sectors of the community with respect to the Premier’s comments the …
I heard Mr. Chris Famous, the Member of Parliament, put forth one of his better presentations tonight on that issue. And it appeared to me that there was a great antipathy towards the degree of animus coming from certain sectors of the community with respect to the Premier’s comments the other day. At the r isk of saying I am being rude, Well, Premier, join the club. Join the esteemed company including the newly departed Dr. Eva Hodgson and many others. That is part of the job here when you deal with the issue of racial injustice in Bermuda. And I applaud Mr. Famous for standing up and supporting his Premier. I can tell you that we have been down this road before. You go back roughly only about 10 years ago— or no, going back almost 12, 13 years ago with the Big Conversation. Mr. Speaker, as you will know, we started off pretty promising. We had, by Bermuda’s standards of the day, a significant percentage of white Bermudians, and some who stayed with us right through to the end of the initiative three years later. But we did notice that over time the number of white participants began to diminish. And I also think we need to look at ourselves, because we should have then translated that conversation after two or three years into tangible public policies to achieve racial equity and equality in Bermuda. Legislati on would have to have been part of that. And I will get to that in a second. But, Mr. Speaker, I just want to very quickly take a short walk down Memory Lane. I am going to reference a Royal Gazette article which focused on comments of a major insurance executive by the name of Jonathan Reiss. I think we are talking about maybe a year -and-a-half ago, maybe a little more than that actually. Actually, was it pre -election or shortly after that when he made these comments, which, by Bermuda standards, made a m ajor impact as a white, privileged, Bermudian major player in the insurance industry and IB, just like his father was. His father was one of the founders, Fred Reiss, of Bermuda’s global insurance industry, came here from Ohio after the war. Anyway, so le t me just share these comments again. I think most of your listeners out there, inclu ding dear Esme Williams, star and social activist, who is listening right now, I am sure, will appreciate. And I quote: “ 2A leading Bermudian insurance executive yesterday called for the private sector to make bolder efforts to address the lack of diversity in workforces, management and boardrooms.” (And let me just quickly say this ties into what the Deputy Leader of
2 Royal Gazette, 14 June 2018
Bermuda House of Assembly the OBA said earlier. I am talking about Leah Scott. I continue:) “In a powerful speech at the Bermuda Captive Conference, Jonathan Reiss said he believed his skin colour and family connections had helped him pr ogress in his career. “He said white -male dominance continued to prevail in the executive teams of companies whose workforces failed to mirror the diversity within their communities and ‘we all need to do much more’. “‘We in the private sector need to lead,’ Mr Reiss, the chief financial officer of Hamilton Insurance Group, said. ‘We control vast swath es of wealth creation, and, more crucially, we control who gets the best opportunities.’ (One more paragraph to read, Mr. Speaker:) “He added: ‘If we don’t vastly improve and get it right, then governments here and in other countries will ultimately have to step in and do it for us. If that happens, I can assure you, we will deeply regret our failings.’ “On the lack of racial diversity in Bermuda’s insurance industry, he argued that the reasons were complex . . . “He added: ‘The point I’m making is that the reason there aren’t more black Bermudians in our i ndustry, particularly at senior levels, is much more complicated than outright discrimination. “‘It’s the legacy of white supremacy,’” (he said), “‘slavery, and how this legacy continues to permeate our institutions despite the monumental shift in attitudes and intentions.’” Of course, he said this at a time when it would not have been as fashionable as now, post Black Lives Matters marches which included significant numbers of white residents partici pating. Again, this is about 18 months ago, give or take a few months. And you know, I reached out to him and I had a conversation. I knew his sister. And I still do, I would say, in a present tense. But I reached out to him. We had a conversation. We had a lunch. And I am sure he will not mind me saying this, not after what he was quoted publicly as saying. And this will drill down a little bit. He said to me, Rolfe, yes, we need more r acial inclusion. But I think we need to be more specific, especially more virtual inclusion as it relates to black males. He did not say that publicly; that is what he told me privately, because it is even a greater dearth in terms of inclusion with respect to black males than it is for black females. It is bad overall; do not get me wrong. But that is what he said to me. How do we address that? They had some set time, a significant amount of time, to police themselves. He talked about the inevitability that if we do not do it, there are going to be governments that will impose that on the industry. And I noticed he just did not . . . if you listen to his comments, he was not just referring to Bermuda. He is talking about this sector globally and how you go from boardroom to boar droom or C suite to C suite, you are looking at the same people. It is almost interchangeable in terms of race and gender and the whole nine yards. But we have to do that. So how do we, from a public policy standpoint . . . see, this is where the tyre hits the road. And I heard one of your speakers earlier allude to the fact that, and as I said two weeks ago, if we had to really begin to talk in tangible ways about how do we change this in this sector —we are just talking about this sector now —will those persons who came out and marched still be with us? As Mr. Famous pointed out, some of them perhaps were not happy with the comments made by the Premier. And frankly, I do not think the Premier said anything that was fairly earth- shattering. Certainly he did not come out with sort of public policies whi ch he could have said at that particular event (I am sure in time he will ) that would really cause them to have smoke coming out of their ears. But nonetheless, let us go back again for another short walk down Memory Lane. We know in 2005, 2006, 2004, Mr. Speaker, we had a trial balloon that went up called Workforce Equity Bill. The Wor kforce Equity Bill, which I had mentioned two weeks ago, was a Bill that was designed to address this def icit, especially at the corporate level. To me it provided an insurance policy to ensure that your grandson, my granddaughter, young people whom the country and families, have invested so much in to get qualified. The Workforce Equity Bill, a form of affirm ative action, was designed to ensure that they would get the same opportunities for employment, to be hired as their peers, their white peers, for example, who were similarly educated. And they would also, once hired, once in the job, have the same opportun ities for advancement in the company. If we would have been doing something like this 25 years ago, 30 years ago . . . I am sorry. He must be tired of me always referencing his name. We would have more Patrick Tannocks than we do. And the industry, I assume, would frankly look more like Bermuda than it does now. MP Famous’s phrase is certainly right about the need for black economic empowerment and black businesses. Though certainly, I am sure that many of the black businesses he is talking about will also need consumers. So here now, you cannot have it both ways. But on this front, we cannot leave one of the most lucrative sectors of our economy not looking like Bermuda. And that is why that was one of the tangible proposals. I think one of the key deficits in the Wor kforce Equity Bill was that the penalty provisions wer e too small. I mean, legitimate companies are bringing billions of dollars a year annually. Then, you know, you have got to have some real sanctions, the pr ospect of getting more than just a slap on your hand, to change behaviour. 4306 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly You see, I believe that you cannot change someone’s heart. But if that person is controlling a $1 billion company, you can change behaviour if you are threatening that company in a way that is justified based upon their own actions. And we saw that throughout the US, and a lot of work still needs to be done. And you see other examples of that throughout the world. But getting back to Mr. Jonathan Reiss. So I am pretty sure that the things that were thrown at him were pretty horrendous behind the scenes. I do know that, for exampl e, you had . . . and this was another part of the Bermudian mosaic, which some can be a little disturbing. You had Mr. Malcolm Butterfield come out, and he made it sound as if it was the second coming of Jesus of course. And I am not knocking what Mr. Reis s says; I consider him a racial justice warrior. I would like to see him get back in the public domain a little bit. Since that time, he has gone real quiet. But the reality is that I never heard Mr. Butterfield and people like him come out in support of D r. Hodgson, who was making similar comments a decade or more . . . let us say maybe two decades or more before Mr. Reiss justifiably made some of the comments he is making here. And how she was demonised, and we said it already, and how she lost opportunit ies for employment and the like because of her racial justice advocacy. That is Bermuda, too. And that has to change. Certainly, you know, the knives were out for me in spades in 2005 and 2006 and 2007, 2010, r ather, around the issues of the Big Conversat ion. And I was demonised. The things that were written in the newspaper in terms of letters to the editor, I don’t know why Commissiong hates white people. After all, he is biracial. Now, I do have some European ancestry, but it is not that recent, if you get my point. And the point is, so what? The issue here is not about one of skin colour. It is about a commitment to a principle of racial justice, racial equity and racial equality. That is why all are welcome to join that fight, the Jonathan Reisses, the scores of young people, whites and others, who throughout the world we saw saying, Yeah; it’s got to end. I too want to deconstruct white supremacy. I want to join in that fight. And therefore, in some r espects, black Americans, blacks throughout the w orld now are becoming a moral beacon for justice and equality in ways that were eerily similar to what occurred in the 1960s. So I would ask the Premier to stand strong. So in talking about again the Workforce Equity Bill, this has to be put back on the t able. There has been enough time now. But that is not the only thing that needs to be done. I talked about [how we] have got the race- specific remedies such as the Workforce Equity Bill. [We] could also use and facilitate the ac-tions of Government to engender what we more commonly refer to as black economic empowerment. We can use the procurement process to achieve that end. I said this two weeks ago, and I am going to repeat it again: We also put in place another racial equity programme that will ensure w hen the major companies are here to invest in Bermuda . . . We all want them to come. What I am going to say is rather shocking because in many countries that I go to around the world, they have to meet some of these standards and these expectations and ev en legal r equirements around inclusion and equality and all the rest. And so when a company comes here, and they want to invest $300 million to build a new hotel or build this or that, then, you know, in return for your licence and your permit and all the rest, you will have to agree that perhaps 40 per cent, 50 per cent of your vendors, of your subcontractors [INAUDIBLE] development need to be black Bermudians. That 50 per cent of your employees, the ones you are hiring to do this work, or the ones your s ubcontractors will hire have to be black Bermudians. If Google wants to land here and open up a major office here, 500 employees, for example—I mean, we can only dream about something like that, right? Same thing. Their vendors, from the permits, the licences, their vendors would need to be . . . half of their management would need to be black Berm udian, their employees. If enough are there and educated, should be the same, should be the same sort of targets. That is what we need to talk about in terms of tangible, tangible public policy so we can imagine. Now, there are so many more even on our cultural front. We know about Mary Prince. That is an example of the same thing. I believe symbols are i mportant. I believe it is important that the authentic black Bermudian story and that of our diaspora have a co-equal position in terms of the context of Bermudian history. And the story is edifying and should be hon-oured in terms of what Mary Prince did. And that was my thinking behind it from the very beginning. And it is beneficial and edifying for both black and white. So these are the sort of footprints we need to establish here. And if we can do that, if we can get beyond this period, and believe me, the thorniest part here is the way white privilege, as I alluded to again a few weeks ago, is encoded at the very heart of our political landscape. I mean, while the Minister Burch talked about the black face of white privilege which is so common in Bermuda, nothing epitomises that more than in the political ter rain. But it was encoded with a wink and a nod from the same UK Government that she will represent over 60 years ago, 50 years ago in that Constitutional Conference that led up to the first election held under quote/unquote flawed universal adult suffrage in 1968 that encoded white privilege and helped to extend its dominance over Bermuda for the successive decades
Bermuda House of Assembly after that much to our everlasting shame and much to the under -development that we continue to see among Bermuda’s black community.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMember Commissiong, you have a m inute left now.
Mr. Rolfe CommissiongOkay. So, and I am thankful to be able to just reiterate that again. I am not saying that all those policies should go. There are non- race- specific ones, too, in terms of tax refor m, making sure the wealthy pay their fair share and everything else, and health …
Okay. So, and I am thankful to be able to just reiterate that again. I am not saying that all those policies should go. There are non- race- specific ones, too, in terms of tax refor m, making sure the wealthy pay their fair share and everything else, and health care. But I think these are some of the critical ones we need to consider. I want to thank you, Mr. Speaker, for affording me the time to have this conversation today.
The S peaker: Thank you, Member. Does any other Member wish to speak? Any other Member?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMr. Weeks, you have the floor. SYSTEMI C RACISM IN BERMUDA
Mr. Michael A. WeeksThank you, Mr. Speaker. So far I have heard a lot of my colleagues talk about the Governor, the new Governor coming, and about Black Lives Matter. But what I wanted to talk about, Mr. Speaker, is these two marches over the last couple of weekends, the marches on June …
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. So far I have heard a lot of my colleagues talk about the Governor, the new Governor coming, and about Black Lives Matter. But what I wanted to talk about, Mr. Speaker, is these two marches over the last couple of weekends, the marches on June 7 th and June 13th. This, Mr. Speaker, was giving the attention to the continued killing of our young black men and women who have been senselessly and [INAUDIBLE] or killed by the police the world over, but especially in America. We in Bermuda have partnered with many around the world to march in protest against these heinous acts. Many of us even put our own health at risk, Mr. Speaker, when we inadvertently did not adhere to the social distancing gu idelines. This, Mr. Speaker, was the same worldwide. The passion and commitment shown by different youths and ethnicities, it was, Mr. Speaker, and is amazing. But what now, Mr. Speaker? In Bermuda and globally we have marched and shown our displeasure of the continued fatal treatment of our young black men in particular and our support for change. But what now? Mr. Speaker, over the last 10- plus years, we have had many young black men in Bermuda who have violently lost their lives at the hands of other black men. Globally, Mr. Speaker, we are in the midst of a coronavirus pandemic. But the pandemic that we confront on this Island is our young men killing each other. The cure for that is education. And as our honourable colleague from constituency 21, Mr . Commissiong, so often says, It is a symptom of our social/economic condition. Mr. Speaker, as part of this systemic racism that conti nues to scar our Island, many are only comfortable––asking about and talking about this and other issues concerning race– –behind closed doors. But no, Mr. Speaker, we must stand up, and we must speak up and speak out. We must be bold in our discussions of the casualties of this war called racism on this Island. We cannot afford to turn a cursory eye to the plight of our youn g black men in particular any more. Someone once said, Mr. Speaker, that we are like crabs in a bucket, “We,” as in blacks. And in gen-eralising, they say that we seem to always have to prove our worth. Well, they are right, Mr. Speaker. Because blacks hav e always had to scrounge and scrape for what it is that they want. They have always been told that we will never amount to anything and that we were scruffy and not important. We have a lways been compared to our white counterparts and their successes as if our successes were nonconsequential or unimportant. Mr. Speaker, we have always sought valid ation and assurance that we are just as good, because generationally they did a number on us, Mr. Speaker. And daily we try to break those chains. Ironically, as I speak today on Black Lives Matter, today is Juneteenth. I have heard others speak of Juneteenth earlier in the motion to adjourn. But Juneteenth is a day that is celebrated around the world, and in particular by Afro -Americans. Slavery was abolished in America on January 1 st, 1863. But the State of Texas at that time was a very remote state. And the slaves did not find out, like you have heard already, Mr. Speaker, until two- and-a-half years later, June 19 th, 1865. On this date, Mr. Speaker, many slaves found out that they were no longer slaves. Somehow, the slaves did not get the memo. But, Mr. Speaker, as an aside, it does not r elate, but it is important to me. June 19th is my father’s birthday. So he always used to tell us about this Juneteenth, tell us about that before it became popular. But moving on, Mr. Speaker, I am not one to use the word free, because 155 years later we find ourselves still marching, protesting modern- day lync hings of many of our young black men. So what now, Mr. Speaker, as m any in our white establishment here and abroad have not gotten the memo that black lives matter? You can legislate reform, but we cannot legi slate the hate, disdain and fear that are shown by ot hers to our young black men. While we as Afro blacks worldwid e have the world’s attention, now is the time, Mr. Speaker. Now is 4308 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly the time to enter real dialogue about reparations. A hundred and eighty -six years ago, the slaveowner was compensated for the financial loss that emancipation brought. The blacks did not get the notice that slavery was abolished. Some of our colleagues even talk about our social/economic condition. The correl ation is clear. It is common knowledge that when sla very was abolished in the British Isles 186 years ago, slaveowners received compens ation from the government. This, Mr. Speaker, included the slaveowner right here in Bermuda. Bonds were created to finance this. Some records even show how it took until a pproximately 2015 for the taxpayer to finish paying for those bonds issued. So I ask , Mr. Speaker: Is it unrealistic for us not to demand reparations today? I would suggest that we strike while the iron, proverbially, is hot. Mr. Speaker, now that we have the world’s attention, or while we have the world’s attention to these injustices b y way of these marches, I think it is a good thing. So we cannot or should not miss the opportunity to demand that a tangible compensation for slavery as in financial reparations be received. Some may not agree with it. We have different opinions and different views on this situation that we are faced with right now with the recent murders of George Floyd and others. But, Mr. Speaker, I participated in my share of marches, starting when I was a young student at the illustrious Howard University. That is where my co nsciousness was awakened to a world full of injustices and inequities. But here I stand now, Mr. Speaker, as a grown man. And as a people, we continue to come face to face with some of those very same injustices and inequalities fought against way back then. And I am reminded of the song that many consider to be the black man’s national anthem. And I am not going to sing like others have sung today, but I will just read it. And a part of that song says, I am wil ling to march on until victory is won. And I think now, Mr. Speaker, we as a people have come to that real isation that we have come too far and we are willing collectively worldwide to march on until victory is won. But we have to be mindful, Mr. Speaker, that we can march. And as leaders, w e need to lead. So what now, Mr. Speaker? We are looking at changing legislation. That is good. But we cannot be people- pleasers and census -takers in leadership. Some lead according to what is popular. But popular or not, it is time to come to the proverb ial table and make this move on reparations. And while we are at that here in Bermuda, Mr. Speaker, we could address that land- grab issue that was championed by our dearly departed colleague, Mr. Walton Brown, Jr. I remember that issue, Mr. Speaker. I reme mber the march. And I remember it being shot down by the Governor of the day. Now is the time to put that on the front burner while discussing Black Lives Matter, because to me, Mr. Speaker, it is all connected. So I say let us march down Front Street. And let the white establishment know, Mr. Speaker, that black lives not only matter, but they count. And while we are at it, let us march on Court Street and other areas that have been dusted in violent activity and tell our own young black men that in spite of what they have been told and the number of reasons that they may have for hating self and others, their lives matter also. And their shootings and sta bbings of each other must stop. I repeat, Mr. Speaker: Let us tell them that their lives also matter, and the shootings and stabbings of each other must stop. We need to share with our young men that killing their brother is not the answer and that they are fighting for social/economic release and racial respect, but [they are] going about it the wrong wa y. As someone once said, Mr. Speaker, We must fight with our minds, not our hands, to make change. Mr. Speaker, the world has our attention, and Black Lives Matter. While internally we must address this injustice of systemic racism, we must make today matter as we address all of these injustices which are eating away at the fabric of our society. We need to teach our young men and our young women that waking up to injustice is uncomfortable, especially when our words, deeds and actions are really a part of the problem. So as a country, Mr. Speaker, we must right the wrongs of the past. We must release these young men from the strains of social ills. We must stand for something, as is said, rather than fall for anything. Now is the time, Mr. Speaker. Let us make the pur-pose for these marches matter. Let us fight for true justice and equality so that the legacies of our foref athers and our children can be preserved. But on a lighter note, Mr. Speaker, as I conclude, I would like to wish all those who are fathers in the House and who are listening to us right now a Happy Father ’s Day. And I beg that you enjoy yourselves as you remember to be safe and as you practice social distancing. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member. Does a ny other Honourable Member wish to speak? Hon. Jeanne J. Atherden: Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYes. Hon. Jeanne J. Atherden: MP Atherden.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYes, MP Atherden. You have the floor. VISION FOR THE MINISTRY OF LABOUR Hon. Jeanne J. Atherden: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Bermuda House of Assembly First of all, Mr. Speaker, I want to take the opportunity to raise something which unfortunately I did not get to raise during the House …
Yes, MP Atherden. You have the floor.
VISION FOR THE MINISTRY OF LABOUR
Hon. Jeanne J. Atherden: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Bermuda House of Assembly First of all, Mr. Speaker, I want to take the opportunity to raise something which unfortunately I did not get to raise during the House because we had so many questions (which is nice to have lots of questions), and this relates to t he Statement by the Mini ster of Labour in terms of the vision for the Ministry of Labour. And the reason I am raising it right now is b ecause I think Labour is very important to us. And some of the questions that I wanted to raise, I believe the people of Bermuda want to hear the results. And so I am raising it now in the hopes that ultimately the Minister will at some future point —
The SpeakerThe SpeakerWell, you cannot go back to today. You cannot go back to the business of the day. So be careful how you tread o n that. Hon. Jeanne J. Atherden: Well, if it is something that is stated where we never had any discussion am I not able to at …
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberThat is a Ministerial Statement. We should be able to deal with that. Hon. Jeanne J. Atherden: It was a Ministerial Stat ement.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerOkay. I have given you guidance. I did not say you could not do it. I said be careful how you do it because there is a thin line. So, you know, I think you are clever enough to be able to go down t here without reopening the debate …
Okay. I have given you guidance. I did not say you could not do it. I said be careful how you do it because there is a thin line. So, you know, I think you are clever enough to be able to go down t here without reopening the debate that took place earlier.
Hon. Jeanne J. Atherden: Okay. Well, as I say, it was a Statement that no debate was taking place on it. I just like to think that as we go forward some of the initiatives which the Minister talk ed about he would take the opportunity to come back to the House and tell us about some things that were stated. I find too often that Ministers come and they make Statements, but they do not supply enough i nformation. And we do not get the opportunity la ter on to come back and talk about it so that when a Stat ement indicated about formal agreements in terms of experiential learning for students, it just reminded me of whether this was something very similar to what we used to call a day release. And so i t would be nice if we could get a clear understanding of how this is going to work, because then we will know that there is something that is being put into place and we will get an understanding as to whether this will result in job opportunities for students during the school break or the summer break. And so this really tells us that there is some substance to some of these things. Equally, Mr. Speaker, I would hope that . . . and I said this to the Premier when he was Finance Minister, and I am saying it now to the other Minister. It would be really nice if people came back and r eported to the House and gave the House and the people of Bermuda some updates on initiatives that they put in. So if there is an indication that there is going to be a good cor porate citizen programme, then it would be nice to know what constitutes a good corporate citizen and how many good corporate citizens we actually have. Equally, as we start to go forward, I know that in the past there have been financial incentives in terms of encouraging people to come on the Island. But we never get to know how many people have actually taken advantage of this, how many people have come and said, Okay. I’m going to bring my company to the Island, and these are the numbers of jobs that have been created. So I am just saying that as it relates to those types of Statements, and Statements from other Mi nisters, especially when it relates to growing the economy and it relates to jobs. People are looking to see whether these initiatives result in actually [getting] bums on the Island; bums on seats; money, where people come and they bring their families to the Island which will result in jobs for housekeepers, taxi drivers and grocery people. And so I think that is very i mportant. Now, that w as my simpler thing. And, Mr. Speaker, I have one other thing that I just wanted to take the opportunity to talk about.
BOUNDARIES COMMISSION
Hon. Jeanne J. Atherden: Everybody has been tal king about June 10 th—Juneteenth, I should say. And I must admit it was something that I did not know about. And so I was very intrigued as to what it was all about. And the way I operate is that if there is something that I do not know about, I try and go and look it up. So I did go back, and I looked at the history of Juneteenth and then got an understanding of what happened. And, you know, there was a nice tone which was in the article that I looked at which was written by Kristina Kay, which talks about We Rose. And there was a sentence in there that I thought was v ery a ppropriate, which said, “Dream, we did/Act we must.” And I think that those are the types of things that we all have to do, and that is perhaps why each one of us got involved in politics, because we decided that there was something that we believed w e should like to see happen. Maybe it is going to be a dream. But we are actually going to try and do something about it, and this is why we are acting. So, Mr. Speaker, in my way of thinking, I always try and look at things and say, Okay, how does that t ranslate into Bermuda? What happened in Bermuda on that same day? Or what happened that was important to Bermuda on that same day? So I went online, and I actually realised that on the 19 th of June 4310 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly in 1967, that was when they were debating the Bermuda Cons titution Bill, which is rather ironic because here we are now. We have, if you will, the product of all that deliberation. And when we are having our vi rtual meetings we have the evolution of a system that was being discussed way back then. And, Mr. Speak er, there are about four observations that I just want to make as it relates to that. One is the fact that in that particular debate, there was lots of discussion about the people of Bermuda being (and I am quoting from this Hansard [19 June 1967]): “peopl e of Bermuda should be given a chance to d ecide what their constitution and what the Boundary Commission should be.” And so that was the first thing which I thought was quite interesting. The second thing which I thought was quite interesting was the fact that (and I am just flipping here) there was an indication that —and I am quoting, “If we are to accept a proposition of that sort, we must be sure that, eventually, one man, one vote means as nearly as possible, one man, one equal vote. ” And I am going t o come back in a minute to why I believe that was really actually very important. The third thing which I thought was quite i nteresting was the fact that the discussion said that, “consideration in this respect is the difference between an automatic system and a voluntary system of registration. ” And it was noted in the House, in England, “We have an automatic system, which is endorsed by authority. Forms are sent to people and they are asked to fill them in. If they are not completed, other people are em ployed to assist them in filling in the forms, in order that, as far as possible, the maximum effort is put into ensuring that the names of all those who are entitled to vote are put on the register. ” And I thought that this was significant. And the last thing which I thought was signif icant, it said, “ In Bermuda there is a voluntary system, relying on individuals to make an effort to register in order to become eligible to vote. In such circumstances political parties have two campaigns to fight —one to ensure that their supporters' names get on to the register and then the normal fight to make sure that their supporters vote at elections. ” And so I just thought, Mr. Speaker, that this truly resonates in three concerns that I have had all along, and I bel ieve that I want to say them now because I am going to keep doing more and more about this. One is we raise this concern that I have with r espect to the fact that there is the notation of a Bounda-ries Commission. And that is very important because the Boundaries Commission try and do things as it relates to trying to get, as much as possible, constit uencies of, as much as possible, an equal number of registered voters. But if I went back . . . and I actually did go back and look at the last election, we hav e a situation where one constituency has 1,453, and an-other constituency has 1,145. So then that begs the question of one man, one vote as near as possible of equal value. And I believe that this is something which is really concerning because the size of the constituencies then actually impacts on what I believe is this one man, one vote. And it is further compounded because, as is indicated by the discussion, we have a system now where you are hoping that people will go out and register. And you are hopi ng that when people change their locations, that they will go out and make the changes. And it just seemed to me that what was suggested before is something that we should consi der even more, which is to have a voter registration that takes place automatic ally, and therefore you do not have to rely on people doing this, changing it and changing from constituency A to constituency B if they move. And you then end up having what I call . . . just the thing which further compounds it is the fact that we know that there is unequal access to voter information. So on that basis I would like to think that both parties would want to —
The SpeakerThe SpeakerPoint of order. POINT OF ORDER
Mr. Christopher FamousBoth parties are given the same information every month on the Parliamentary Register. Second of all, the Boundaries Commission prior to the last election was delayed because the census was delayed from the OBA Government. They did not have proper census information to formulate proper information for the Boundaries Commission. …
Both parties are given the same information every month on the Parliamentary Register. Second of all, the Boundaries Commission prior to the last election was delayed because the census was delayed from the OBA Government. They did not have proper census information to formulate proper information for the Boundaries Commission. So if one is going to talk about the Boundaries Commission, one has to talk about why the OBA delayed the census. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Member. Hon. Jeanne J. Atherden: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. But in the spirit of . . . I am one of those people who tries to look at a solution rather than turning around and laying blame. I am trying to say there is a problem; let us …
Thank you, Member.
Hon. Jeanne J. Atherden: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. But in the spirit of . . . I am one of those people who tries to look at a solution rather than turning around and laying blame. I am trying to say there is a problem; let us see what we can do in terms of coming up with a solution. And I am suggesting that now that we have a new norm, this new norm of being locked down says that we might have situations where we will not be able to reach out and talk to people. And therefore, we need to be able to talk to them in different ways. We
Bermuda House of Assembly have to be able to reach out, whether it be on the te lephone or via emails, et cetera. And that, to me, then says that this is the time for us to think with some vision. We have been talking about coming up with unique patient identifiers, unique identifiers for people in Bermuda. And if we are going to do that, we have the beginning of something that says when you are in Bermuda and born, and then you have the ab ility for a proper system to be put in place so that you will start to register people, and when they become of age, be able to say, Oh, you are eligible now, and therefore this is where you live. And therefore, there is the opportunity to start to turn ar ound and have some sy stem that looks at where people could be actually all ocated. And then you do not have to worry about the census, or whatever, because you are using information which is being touched all the time. People are touching this all the time whether they go and do their TCD or whether they go to the hospital or whatever. A unique identifier starts to track everybody in Bermuda. And so then you do not have to worry. And I am hoping that as parties we will start to think of the opportunity to s ay, How do we get all this information? And make sure that both parties have this information so that even if it is COVID -19, where we want to get in touch with people in our constituency and want to see how they are doing and whether they need anything. T hen we as people [of a political party], people who have decided that this country is important enough for us to want to be Members of Parliament, we will be able to go out and have access to this information. All I am suggesting is that this caused me to think of the new normal, and how we turn around and do something so that we can access the people who are out there, the people whom we care about, our constituents, and make sure that they are okay. And I would like to think that on both sides of the [ai sle], people will see that it is in our collective interest to try and get this information and make sure we both have it so that, collectively, if need be, we can help, whet her it is the Health Minister or somebody else, that we can help them reach out to those people in times of need where we need to make contact with them, that we become the extra army, that we do not just have to be just worrying about our civil servants, et cetera. We can become the extension of civil ser vants to be able to say we are out there trying to repr esent all the people in Bermuda. And even in some cases, we might need to know who is in the constit uency even if they are not voters, because we do many things which impact people who cannot vote. When we go and we pass new taxes and when we go and do other things, lots of people do not get to vote on it. But they are going to be impacted by it. And perhaps we have to make sure that at least they tell us about what they think. Because the bottom line is it is not just people who vote who should actually opine on what is happening on this Island. We talk about the cost of living. Well, the cost of living is going up for everybody. We have to do things for the people on this Island to be more produc-tive. Our productivity has to go up so that what we do becomes not as expensive and therefore all of us will benefit. So I am just suggesting, Mr. Speaker, that this caused me to think about, What can we do differently as Members of Parliament? What can we do to make sure that information i s out there? And I really do believe that we should put our hands across the aisle and both parties ask the Parliamentary Registrar to provide information about the people who are voters and information which gives not only their address, but their email address and their telephone numbers so that we can then become the extension of our parliamentary duties in terms of maintaining contact with people in Bermuda. As I say, Mr. Speaker, it was ironic that this whole discussion happened to come on June the 19 th, 1967, and it just made me realise that as we go forward we have a lot to do, and it is not just about pas sing Bills. It is about maintaining contact with the people of Bermuda, and it is about making sure that we can hear their concerns and they have an opportunity to provide feedback to us. Everybody on this Island is important. And I just thought I would just point this out to all of us and perhaps look at it from a different perspective. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member. Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMP Simmons, continue. BOUNDARIES COMMISSION
Mr. Jamahl S. SimmonsYes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just in response to the Honourable Member who just took her seat, she is a representative in an area that has been held by her party for almost 50 years. If they do not know how to [help] her to get in touch with or …
Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just in response to the Honourable Member who just took her seat, she is a representative in an area that has been held by her party for almost 50 years. If they do not know how to [help] her to get in touch with or know who is in their constituency, well, no wonder they keep losing seats. But, Mr. Speaker, I want to go back to earlier remarks. Hon. Jeanne J. Atherden: Point of order, Mr. Speaker. 4312 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly The Speaker: Point of order.
POINT OF ORDER [Misleading]
Hon. Jeanne J. Atherden: Yes. The Member is misleading the House. I did not talk about my constituen-cy. I tried to make some observations as it relates to the country. Thank you.
Mr. Jamahl S. SimmonsAny Member who is in her constituency needs more help than the Parliamentary Register can pr ovide.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerContinue, Member. SYSTEMIC RACISM IN BERMUDA
Mr. Jamahl S. SimmonsMr. Speaker, I want to go back to an earlier matter raised by the Deputy Leader of the Opposition. Now, over the past two years the Department of Child and Family Services has been used as a political football. In my opinion, there are people in this country who have …
Mr. Speaker, I want to go back to an earlier matter raised by the Deputy Leader of the Opposition. Now, over the past two years the Department of Child and Family Services has been used as a political football. In my opinion, there are people in this country who have attempted to politica lly exploit vulnerable children of that institution and have abused and disparaged the workers in that inst itution. Let me make som ething very clear, Mr. Speaker, because I think the record needs to be [played] over and over again. Because lies, or mi struths as we say, or prevarications that go uncha llenged become truths in time. This is the first Gov-ernment and the first Attorney General to establish a litigation panel. This is the first Government and the first Attorney General to implement child safeguarding legislation, meeting and exceeding in some cases i nternational standards. They question the social workers trained to a minim um of a master’s level, saying that they are not properly trained to deal with our children or to act as litigation guardians. And their one point that I think is real interesting and needs to be made, of course, again and again is that the Department of C hild and Family Services does not appoint litigation guardians; the court does. So a former social worker allowed to act as a litigation guardian without benefit of a legal contract by her former OBA colleague is not qualified? They should be so. Let us l ook at this, Mr. Speaker. We have seen over and over again attacks made in concert with the Royal Gazette which had gone and tried to get specific information about cases, which under the legislation the Government cannot reveal. And they know this. But they have continued to paint this picture as though it is a coverup, when it is actually about legislation that is preventing people’s private lives and private circumstances from being revealed. So I would ask for Members who care about children that you ne ed to stop playing games. Now, we heard a lot, I heard a lot in the last two weeks about Black Lives Matter. And I have heard Black Lives Matter out of the mouths of some very interesting people. You know, if black lives matter, and they had two part -time ministers overseeing Child and Family Services and the social services budgets were slashed . . . If black lives matter, you pay the lawyer who wants to be the voice of children is the same lawyer who tried to get a sexual offender to not have to wear a t racking device . . . Get it, Mr. Speaker? When you spend $100 million on a billionaire boat race where only 16 per cent of the financial bene ficiaries were black, did black lives matter? When you broke your promise and ended term limits, did black lives m atter? When you tried to give the children of ex -pats the right to compete with our children for jobs and opportunities, did black lives matter? When jobs for non- Bermudians increased and Bermudian jobs fell, did black lives matter? When you changed immigration policy, killed opportunities for Bermudian entertainers, did black lives matter? When you tried to reduce access to mammograms for women, did black lives matter? When you rolled back PLP benefit programmes for seniors, did black lives matter? When y ou had four education ministers in four years, mouldy schools, slashed budgets and called our teachers mischievous, did black lives matter? When you were getting up to whatever you got up to with Jetgate, did black lives matter? When some of you were cheer ing on the p olice when they tried to break through the peaceful pr otest outside parliament, did black lives matter? It seems that there are those who like to wrap themselves in the cause of the day. They are people who like to engage in performative Black Nationalism or performative liberalism. The time for that has passed. It is time for real talk and real conversation. And when you look at the record, there is no need to twist your lips to say anything about Black Lives Matter—ever. Changing gears, Mr. Speaker, because I am not going to be all night. Today is my parents’ 51 st wedding anniversary. I would like to take a moment to thank them. And there was something interesting to reflect upon this is that there was a quote that really struck me. It says, “If you’ve wondered what you would’ve done during slavery . . . or the Civil Rights movement . . . you’re [probably] doing it now .” So each of us needs to [ask], Are we doing something? And when we look ahead to the next generation and the next generation looks back at us, are we doing things that people would be proud of? Or will we be seen as merely facilitating and keeping things in place? When I look at my father . . . and I am going to celebrate all of the fathers in Bermuda as I close. I look at my f ather, in the 1960s when he could have been kissing up and selling out, he was educating
Bermuda House of Assembly himself, planning to start a business, and willing and training to take up arms as a Black Beret. In the 1970s when he could have been trying to be liked by the right people, he had started his business. He was dri ving a cab at night to pay for the construction of their home and working with the PLP to take Sandys North from the UBP. In the 1980s, when he could have been on the winning side, he ran for Parliament under the banner of the PLP and suffered all the discrimination and economic terrorism that went along with that. In the 1990s after his political career ended and he was still suffering from the economic terrorism associated with his political association, he could have wallowed in self-pity or despair. Instead, he reinvented himself, took classes, studied and opened new businesses. Through the 2000s when he retired he could have been stuck in the past, stuck in his ways, stuck not even growing. Instead, he continued to learn new skills, mastered new technologies and helped others of his generation, navigating the technological tools of the modern age. Throughout it all, he has been a role model, a guiding light, a provider of an example of a strong black man who was filling my home with consciousness, knowledge of self, love of learning, a love of reading and a love of our people. On this Father’s Day, I would like to thank my father for the paths he blazed and for all the fathers who are setting an example w ho will not have to ask the question (or answer the question) to their children, What did you do in this time to make life better? I wish all the fathers in Bermuda a Happy Father’s Day. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member. Any other Member wish to speak?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMs. Furbert, you have the floor. SYSTEMIC RACISM IN BERMUDA
Mrs. Tinee FurbertThank you, Mr. Speaker. I just want to start by opening with congrat ulating (because I forgot to mention this in congratul atory [speeches]) the students, all of our students with exceptionalities , for their accomplishments this school term. I know it has been very challenging, partic ularly with remote …
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just want to start by opening with congrat ulating (because I forgot to mention this in congratul atory [speeches]) the students, all of our students with exceptionalities , for their accomplishments this school term. I know it has been very challenging, partic ularly with remote learning as it relates to our students with exceptionalities. I just want to ask them to hold their heads up high. And all the teachers and parent s who were i nvolved in this process, for those of you who graduate this year, Well done! And sometimes many people may not understand their accomplishments. But I know all too well the work that the students and teachers all put in for progress. So I just wanted to recognise them today and this evening. Mr. Speaker, I woke up this morning, because usually I have some pretty deep brain waves first thing in the morning. And my thoughts directed me to two things. Firstly, recently I was listening to a Civil R ights lawyer. His name is Bryan Stevenson. And he was asking, What is the opposite of poverty? And I shared this with one of my colleagues earlier today. And he said, like many people will probably think, that the op-posite of poverty is wealth. Well, Bryan spoke and said that he thought that the opposite of poverty is justice, and justice, really, to acquire wealth. You know, we have been talking about racial inequality, economic parity; and the thing that this Progressive Labour Party fights for is justic e. I was also led to a book this morning that was written by Hon. Shirley Osborne. She wrote a book [entitled How to be REALLY Good at Politics .] And in this book she has a statement that says, “As politicians we must care about those who break the rules and those who obey the rules.” And because we are legislators and we make rules, we make rules to help to fight that fight of jus-tice. And then I started to think about the Black Lives Matter movement which is happening all over the world and in Bermuda an d how we have to value black lives. I had many seniors calling me this week just very, very upset, crying about the current conditions with COVID -19 and also having to witness and see the recent violence [INAUDIBLE] that had occurred in the previous weekend. And it is very upsetting for them to have to experience and see. But just like some of my colleagues have mentioned this evening, when we talk about valuing black lives, we have to go back to our history and how––the importance of our acquiring wealt h. And how we acquired wealth was through owning land, owning real estate, access to money from the banks or from funding programmes to be able to buy land, to be able to buy real estate, to have access to educ ation, to have access to different types of oc cupations for employment. We cannot take that for granted, because t oday we do have access to such things. But there was a time when black doctors and nurses could not work at King Edward Memorial Hospital. And there was a time when black people found it very difficult to acquire land and very difficult to acquire real estate. And there was a time when black people had difficulty to access the funding for education. Black people could 4314 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly not easily get funds to go off to college or university or leave Bermuda to go off to college and university so easily. And so that was a drawback in their ability to do better with their education. The black people had difficulty accessing funds to be able to buy things like land and real es-tate, and to have the opportunity to further their education. They did use political funding back then when there was a majority white government in power, where, you know, they would use their access to funds to sway the black vote. If I give you some money to buy land or buy real estate, then you should, you know, be reminded that I helped you to be able to buy land and buy real estate. And so you vote for me. So hopefully, gone are those days. But, you know, where we have a little bit of access to educ ation, land and real estate, wher e we are having to r equire less from white persons to be able to acquire some sort of success and wealth . . . but I just want to talk about access to wealth because I think this is where we do struggle. And we struggle with access to wealth and the securi ty to pass it down from one generation to the next. And if we are able to do this, this will go a long way towards changing our economic trajectory, particularly for blacks. Because the true value of wealth is the independence and economic security that it actually provides. White household wealth has consistently exceeded black households. And it is all too common a story that black people were run off their land by white people, and this is demonstrated through the land grabs where people . . . the wealt h was stolen from blacks. And it actually lowered the rate of black innovation. We talked about how this PLP Government is pursuing a land grab inquiry to address the historic losses of black people. So, you know, someone mentioned compensatory restitutio n. And I think that we are trying to fulfil that demand/request through the land grab inquiry. But what I would like to see for Bermuda, because what we sometimes do not do a good job of is actually getting enough research. And it would be good if a study was done where we are actually looking at the wealth of families by race and type of asset, maybe in equity of homes, government bonds, farm equity, business equity, money in banks and value of stocks. And I know that it might be quite difficult to do that because we do not have a system where we collect income taxes. But it would be good to know where Bermuda stands as far as wealth acquisition. Today black people have made many strides, particularly with schooling and education credentials, where more bl acks are educated. So blacks place a premium on education as a means to mobility, and this is evident by the reasons that we most recently heard in regard to why people are taking out money for hardship funding, those reasons being mortgage and education. However, I bet that we are more in debt because of it, because we are having to borrow this money from programmes like our pensions and we are having to borrow money from the bank —this creates our debt. Mr. Speaker, there is actually a study out there by t he Insight Center for Community Economic Development, which is a study that is done in the US. And it speaks to Americans having more wealth r egardless of education level. And I bet if a study like that was done in Bermuda we would find something similar. It is not proven that education leads to wealth. It is wealth that facilitates and expenses education. And blacks actually need the financial security to take risks. And I truly believe that what we do lack is the opportunity to take financial risks. We n eed compensatory restitution and acknowledgement for production, and pay parity. Many black people went through great lengths to try to make white businesses great and worthy and wealthy. Blacks must own their own financial oxygen. They must put on their o wn financial oxygen masks first and fight for pay parity. You will notice in the last labour force survey that there is still a disparity amongst blacks and whites as it relates to pay parity. And once we reach a level of pay parity, we then must watch wh at we are doing with our dispos able income, because we can be very free with how we are actually using our disposable income. And we have to be, Mr. Speaker, better planners. I think what we should be offering at this time [when] we are experiencing hardship is free financial planning for our people who are struggling, because we will continue to need financial freedom. And as I speak to this I want to highlight something also in the labour force survey of 2019. I do believe a new one should come out soon. Particularly we still have statistics that show that those between the ages of 16 to 24 are the demographic with the highest rate of unemployment. Actually, last year it rose from 18.4 per cent to 23.8 per cent. So we can-not make the assumption that because a person fi nishes high school or may not finish high school that they will want to go away to college. I mean, that is what I am sure parents would encourage. But we can expect that of everyone, but that is not always in someone’s plan. Number one, they probably dislike school. Number two, they probably do not have the means to further their education. And number three, they have a hard time finding employment. So what must we do with these groups? We have to be able to assist this demographic between the ages of 16 and 24 with employment. And we have to be able to improve our education system so that people acquire a level of curiosity and inquisition so that they can feel as though they can succeed in our society. And pay close attention to those pers ons who have intellectual disabilities. I think too often, you know, we are in a system where we think that we are helping, and we are trying our best to help. And our
Bermuda House of Assembly system is just not the system for them. But then we do not support them to be able to fi nd a system that is right for them. I have seen many, many times over and again where our students leave our public school system for another private school only to find that they end up doing much better. And I know that our public education system can as sist in how we, you know, find the right teaching methods and tools for them. I want to applaud the PLP Government because we are looking at drastic changes for our ed ucation system. We also provide funding for students who want to get a college education by providing the college promise initiative, and also providing scholarship opportunities through Workforce Development and through the Ministry of Education, and also through Bermuda College. It would be great if every student who could not afford to go to college either locally or abroad could be given the opportunity to do so, and that funding was not an issue for them to be able to do so, because there is a high correlation of having a high level of education which gives a greater opportunity of employ ment. And so we always have to take that into consideration when we are looking to address social injustices. So I am actually looking forward some years from now, Mr. Speaker, to how these policy changes would have made a great change to our people. I am looking forward to that day where that demographic between the ages of 16 and 24 are supplied with employment opportunity. I am looking forward for that day and I am hopeful that that will be done through programmes, policies and legislation that the PLP puts forward. And I would just like to thank you for the time this evening to speak. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member. Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak?
Mr. Hubert (Kim) E. SwanYes, Mr. Speaker. The Spe aker: Mr. Swan, you have the floor. SYSTEMIC RACISM IN BERMUDA
Mr. Hubert (Kim) E. SwanThank you, Mr. Speaker. Just in case you were not sure, I am constituency number 2 in St. George’s. Mr. Speaker, I want to first of all congratulate the Honourable Member from constituency number White Hill, the Honourable Jamahl Simmons, for a great speech tonight. It was capped off with …
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just in case you were not sure, I am constituency number 2 in St. George’s. Mr. Speaker, I want to first of all congratulate the Honourable Member from constituency number White Hill, the Honourable Jamahl Simmons, for a great speech tonight. It was capped off with a very fitting tribute to his father. Happy Father’s Day, Mr. Speaker, and to all those fathers listening this evening. Mr. Speaker, the protests that have been r everberating around the world have caused me to r eflect on our beloved Bermuda. I have come to appr e-ciate that I am not the only one reflecting. And with your permission, I would like to share something available on social media and written by a former police officer, with your permission. “On the eve of one of the most important events in our recent history I thought I would take this time to reflect on something that weighs heavy on my mind, on my heart. On December 2 nd, 2016, I exper ienced one of the worst days of my life. I joined the police in May 2012 and loved pretty much every day of work. I joined the police to make a difference. Ser ving Bermuda was a responsibility that I did not take lightly, to protect our value s and laws. On December 2nd, I didn't. On December 2nd I could have done be tter. On December 2nd we could have done better. On December 2nd I did what I was ordered to do, and I witnessed one of the darkest days in memory. I am not going to discuss those orders or what happened. What I know is we lost the moral high ground. As a police officer, it was my role to not take sides. It was not my role to join a party or toe a specific line with a party. It was my job to protect people. And on that day we did not protect people. On that day we did not pr otect democracy. We went to prove a point. I hate that I was part of that. I hate that I looked at something with shame, knowing that I have so much more to be proud of. I am not writing this for forgiveness, but I am writing this to apologise. Every night the world watc hes as we people stand for what is right, that stand knowing we demand better from the institutions that guide us. I look forward to marching with my son and wife tomorrow to make the demand that black lives matter.” That was a police officer on December 2 nd who wrote that. I would hazard to guess, Mr. Speaker, that there are people listening tonight, there are people within this very Parliament who are reflecting very much the same way for their par t and their role. Bob Marley, people have been singing tonight. I am not going to sing. But he could say, you can run, but you cannot run away from yourself. You cannot run away from yourself. You really, really cannot, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there is a lot of posturing going on in the community by high officials. Law enforc ement officials are under scrutiny all around the world. But, Mr. Speaker, I was charged as chairman under your authority to look at December 2 nd. Mr. Speaker, unfortunately, the police were not cooperative with your committee. And it was documented in that report. It did not get the type of repor ting, and we understand that in Bermuda. But on this occasion when the world was looking at law enforc ement, law enforcement in Bermuda st ill needs to be looked at for that day as the report called for further-ance of the investigation based on some of the things that we uncovered. You know what, Mr. Speaker? The police did not even include all of the files that were required for 4316 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly that invest igation to be carried out into its fullest extent. Still, one important piece of information that came about at the very last moment from the People’s Campaign—thank you for that —was testimonies, police testimonies, statements by two Members of Parliament, the former Deputy Speaker, Suzanne Roberts-Holshouser, and former Member and Junior Mi nister of Parliament, Mr. Kenneth Bascome. In sworn statements [they] said that the Government was i nvolved in discussions with the police about what was going on. And t hey were prepared to go back into the House of Assembly. That is contrary to what Cabinet Ministers, former Cabinet Ministers and sitting Members of Parliament today led that committee to believe happened. Mr. Speaker, the Honourable Member, Ms. Tinee Furbert who just spoke made a very important contribution on that committee, as well as others, who were part of a bipartisan committee, I might add, who came in with a unanimous report. And we looked at the video cams and the tapes, the body cams. And we saw with our own eyes and witnessed how persons were pinned up against the wall by oncoming officers. Where could they go but the wall? And persons standing in the grounds on the safe side of the wall were spraying back, and the order came from the safe side of the wall to spray. “ 3Captor now . . .” And the video and all this evidence is there for the furtherance of examination. Who are you going to believe? Your l ying eyes? That information needs to be looked at ser iously once again in the context of what i s happening. Because we are quick to go march for everything else. But when people did stand up and protest, seniors were pepper -sprayed in this country. And when the police launched that tactic against those persons and were pressing them against the wall . . . you know, there is a song in the church, Press up, press up, press up! They were pressing! My good . . . One of the famous Peter [Tosh] Down press er Man is what the pressing that needs to reall y be taking place, Mr. Speaker. And that testimony by those two Members of Parliament was not provided to the committee by the same police looking for persons to come forward and become witnesses today in matters. Mr. Speaker, there was another matter that pertained on that day that speaks to the politicising and how political will was an influence in that day. The then- Speaker of the House, the Hon. K. H. R. Horton, had made a decision for the House not to be sitting. Between that time and around noonday (which was probably early morning), no less than the Act ing Go vernor of the time, the Premier of the time, the Attorney General of the time, the Cabinet of the time were bringing pressure to bear to a point where the thenSpeaker said, Well, if you do want to have that meet3 Royal Gazette , 6 July 2019 ing, you can do so without me sitting in the Chair! And that is why the sworn statement by the former Deputy Speaker is so critical. And what was going on at that particular time, Mr. Speaker? At that particular time, when we were trying to investigate, every effort was made to prevent that c ommittee from getting on with what it had to do. But we persevered. And you hear people talking about conflict of interests and transparency. You had one lawyer who represented the Police Commissioner at the time, Mr. Michael DeSilva; who represented the former Premier, Mr. Dunkley; who represented others undisclosed. And when the investigation continued, as it progressed and we started having conversations with the Governor (and I must say that the current Governor was somewhat cooperative, and we were s tarting to find out some matters), we had a new Police Commissioner come on the scene who was not around on December 2 nd, 2016, who then had a lawyer write to us on his behalf to say that [this] lawyer represented the whole police department some months later. So let’s put that in proper context. As I put it, you had the one lawyer representing the father, the son and the unholy ghost. You had the Crown being represented by one lawyer. You had a former Premier being represented by the same lawyer. And you had the Bermuda Police individuals represented by that lawyer and then the Police Commissioner. And no one sees anything wrong with that? Much is wrong with that! Because when that was taking place, the committee was not getting the evidence that it neede d to get on with the job that it needed to get on with. And we had to plod and plod and plod in order to be able to find out what we were able to find out. But an uncooperative Bermuda Police Service was what we met up with, Mr. Speaker. And that cannot be right. And the call by your committee for this matter to be further looked at is as important today as it was when we made that call. And why is it important? B ecause, Mr. Speaker, in the context of the mindset that it took to have that happen is one that contributes to . . . When we talk about institutional racism, systemic racism, the foundation of it is slavery. No one wants to talk about slavery, but it has been mentioned. Brother Weeks mentioned it. You know, what we are finding out in the context is that you have so much money paid out to slaveowners that in some jurisdictions the amortisation of that payment has only just fallen due now. So you have had black people paying for the reparations to the same people who . . . What a travesty that is! Again, if someone talks about how we are going to level the playing field, no one wants to talk about how disenfranchised the black community has been and how the legacy of slavery continues to carry itself forward, and how we blacks can contribute to that s o easily. Because anyone who has owned black
Bermuda House of Assembly people for centuries knows us probably as well as we know ourselves, and can market us as well as we can market ourselves, and can pit us against each other as well as anybody can pit us against ourselves. And in the context of that, December 2nd deserves, as that former officer put it, the shame that he expressed publicly as he took his son and his wife to the march. It is the shame that must be felt by others. I am convinced of that. And that is why this count ry truly needs to examine this matter further for the pain of those who still to this day feel justice has not been served. There are many different spheres in it, I might add as well. But when it came to those particular i nstances, the most egregious, mos t uncooperative and how persons of power went out of their way to keep from the committee information that would have a llowed the committee to be able to review and come in with a report. Truth crushed to earth rose again when Ms. Roberts -Holshouser’s, the former Deputy Speaker, and the former Junior Minister Kenneth Bascome’s testimonies were uncovered and shared. Truth crushed to earth was uncovered when the committee was able to see with its own eyes the body cams and hear the comments. Truth crushed to earth rose again a week ago when this former officer wrote that post and continues to have that post on social media. But the courage that is lacking from the people who were a part of that in 2016 . . . yes, because decisions came down from that Governm ent of the day and the acting Governor of the day whose tenure was pretty much on the way out the door. All those—
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Point of order, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerState your point of order. POINT OF ORDER Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: I think that the Honourable Member is, not purposely, but the Honourable Member is saying that orders came from the OBA Go vernment that led to the unfortunate circumstance of people being sprayed. That is a bold- faced …
State your point of order.
POINT OF ORDER Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: I think that the Honourable Member is, not purposely, but the Honourable Member is saying that orders came from the OBA Go vernment that led to the unfortunate circumstance of people being sprayed. That is a bold- faced misi nformed statement that he has made. And he needs to retract that.
Mr. Hubert (Kim) E. SwanMr. Speaker — Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: It does not come out of anything that he received when he was on that committee seeking out information. He never once got anything that concluded that that dir ection came from the OBA.
Mr. Hubert (Kim) E. SwanMr. Speaker, if the Honourable Member would reflect, I stated that there was testimony from Mrs. Suzann Roberts -Holshouser, the former Deputy Speaker. There was testimony from Mr. Kenneth Bascome, which we received very late in the day, which was concealed from us that stated that the Government was in …
Mr. Speaker, if the Honourable Member would reflect, I stated that there was testimony from Mrs. Suzann Roberts -Holshouser, the former Deputy Speaker. There was testimony from Mr. Kenneth Bascome, which we received very late in the day, which was concealed from us that stated that the Government was in discussions with the police.
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Mr. Speaker, point of order again.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerPoint of order. POINT OF ORDER Hon. L. Craig Cann onier: Having discussions does not mean a directive. Of course the Premier of the day would have discussions with the police. But that does not mean he gave a directive. I mean, how far are we going to reach here?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerWait, both Members. Members, let me try and step in here one m inute in that the clock has just gone to time. I think the point that needs to be driven home here is simply the fact that the c ommittee had its hands tied by the authorities who …
Wait, both Members. Members, let me try and step in here one m inute in that the clock has just gone to time. I think the point that needs to be driven home here is simply the fact that the c ommittee had its hands tied by the authorities who did not provide all the information that was available so that a real con-clusion could have been obtained—
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Agreed.
The SpeakerThe Speaker—to reach a decision based on the fact that inform ation which was sought from the authorities was withheld. And it was an injustice that was done from all perspectives by the fact that that type of i nformation was withheld by the authorities of the cou ntry in not …
—to reach a decision based on the fact that inform ation which was sought from the authorities was withheld. And it was an injustice that was done from all perspectives by the fact that that type of i nformation was withheld by the authorities of the cou ntry in not providing it to that committee. And I want this to rest at that. And the ears that hear understand that message. I think those in the position of authority who participated in withholding that still have a day of justice to answer to. Who else would like to speak?
Hon. Michael J. Scott: I would like to, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, Michael Scott.
4318 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly The Speaker: MP Scott, you have the floor.
[Inaudible interjection]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerI beg your pardon? Hon. Michael J. Scott: Yes, Mr. Speaker. It is M ichael Scott.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYes. You have the floor. DEPARTMENT OF CHILD AND FAMILY SERVICES Hon. Michael J. Scott: Thank you. Thank you, sir. I would like to add my voice as a Member of this House to the comments raised earlier this evening, that voice done by my colleague, the Honourable Member, Mr. …
Yes. You have the floor.
DEPARTMENT OF CHILD AND FAMILY SERVICES
Hon. Michael J. Scott: Thank you. Thank you, sir. I would like to add my voice as a Member of this House to the comments raised earlier this evening, that voice done by my colleague, the Honourable Member, Mr. S immons. Mr. Speaker, the Department of Child and Family Services has but one chief spokesman, one chief priest on the Opposition benches. And his name is not Leah Scott. It is easy, Mr. Speaker, if we just survey Royal Gazette headlines throughout this ye ar and last year (and with your permission, Mr. Speaker), where the current Shadow Attorney General, the Honourable and Learned Member Scott Pearman, called for the need for an independent inquiry into the DCFS [Department of Child and Family Services], Mr . Speaker. In January of this year the MP, Mr. Pearman, called for Government action on the DCFS. The current Minister of Health gave a story. I will list all stories to give to the House the amount of ink that went into this whole question of the departm ent. So we have Minister Wilson calling for better access when investigating child abuse. We have got another story in December of last year, “Clarity sought on the litigation guardians panel,” and there’s a ph otograph of the social worker facing that par ticular st ory. Again the Opposition’s Attorney General calls for an independent probe into a girl’s death within a treatment centre. The Information Commissioner’s office upholds the decision on Director Maybury’s r eport. Again, Mr. Pearman appears at leas t three times, calls for the public deserves answers on the DCFS. “‘That place was evil,’ says Glen Mills [grad uate].” “Championing the people’s watchdogs,” was a lead article by, again, the Opposition spokesman for Legal Affairs, Mr. Pearman. A veritable mountain of ink devoted to a department charged with, as the A ttorney General, Senator Kathy Lynn Simmons is most sensitive about, charged with the protection of chi ldren. And the mountain of ink produced throughout this period to which I have referred r eminds me, Mr. Speaker, of the Aesop fable of that mountain that went into labour, making terrible groaning noises. And as the mountain laboured, said Aesop, what was born? A ridiculous mouse. So to hear the Deputy Opposition Leader t onight assail the pos ition of an interview given by the Senator [Kathy Lynn] Simmons, Madam Attorney General, on the cannabis initiative of this Government and the backhanded comment that she does so well, Mr. Maybury remains in a job with victims of child abuse not interviewe d, these are just controversies. And they are misplaced in the mouth of the Deputy Opposition Leader. They belong in the mouth of Mr. Pearman, who is the champion of this particular topic, which has struggled to gain traction and failed. But what is clear tonight is that the Opposition decided to pivot with a different approach and put the cannon in the hands of the [Deputy] Opposition Leader as opposed to Mr. Scott Pearman. It is a dreadful —
Mr. Scott PearmanPoint of order, Mr. Speaker. Hon. Michael J. Scott: It is a —
The SpeakerThe SpeakerWe will take a point of order. POINT OF ORDER [Misleading]
Mr. Scott PearmanYes. I am afraid the Honourable and Learned Member is misleading the House. I can state with c ertainty I had no idea what the Deputy Leader was going to speak about tonight. And I am delighted to see her championing the cause of DCFS. And if Michael Scott had …
Yes. I am afraid the Honourable and Learned Member is misleading the House. I can state with c ertainty I had no idea what the Deputy Leader was going to speak about tonight. And I am delighted to see her championing the cause of DCFS. And if Michael Scott had done so as well, perhaps we would have gotten somewhere with it. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Hon. Michael J. Scott: So, thank you, Mr. Speaker. So Mr. Pearman comes back and says he had no idea.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerContinue on. Hon. Michael J. Scott: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is not a . . . it’s a weak point by a weak promulgator of the point. The point is unassailable that the amount of mountainous attempts to make this issue of child pr otection . . . Mr. …
Continue on.
Hon. Michael J. Scott: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is not a . . . it’s a weak point by a weak promulgator of the point. The point is unassailable that the amount of mountainous attempts to make this issue of child pr otection . . . Mr. Speaker, child protection and the A ttorney General Kathy Lee Simmons’s commitment to it is unassailable and unquestionable. And when Mr. Pearman, the Honourable and Learned Member and my colleague of this House, has spent the amount of time that he has in the press on this subject about emotional, sexual and physical abuse of lives, they are all the lives of black children in this country. And I daresay that the Honourable and Learned Member, the Opposition Shadow, certainly had no interest in serving the current trend that we are
Bermuda House of Assembly now witnessing in the world about these troubled chi ldren, unprotected children. Those children’s lives matter. I am entirely sure that Mr. Pearman, the Shadow Attorney General, wasting all of this effort in the press to draw media attention to the troubles of the Department of Child and Family Services certainly did not have the focus of the Black Lives Matter scene in his mind. He merely had in his mind to attract and embarrass the Attorney General, the current holder of this office.
Mr. Scott PearmanPoint of order, Mr. Speaker. That is unparliamentary language. In the first—
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYou have a point of order. We will take your point of order. POINT OF ORDER [Imputing improper motive, unparliamentary language]
Mr. Scott PearmanThat is unparliamentary language. It is imputing improper motive. And it should be withdrawn. [Crosstalk]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMember, ju st be guided by the tone and language that are used, and stay on good ground. Hon. Michael J. Scott: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My language was both parliamentary and calm. It is a comment. And it is a comment that is fair. When you compare the facts …
Member, ju st be guided by the tone and language that are used, and stay on good ground. Hon. Michael J. Scott: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My language was both parliamentary and calm. It is a comment. And it is a comment that is fair. When you compare the facts on the amount of time spent in league with the Royal Gazette on this subject compared with the real results that the Attor-ney General Kathy Lee Simmons has accomplished by the re- establishing of her panel that is the now lit igation guardian for child protection in this country, when we see how the public have welcomed these moves. When you consider how the work of the Attorney General Kathy Lynn Simmons has been both f ocused in even appointing that panel, it was an adroit move when Mr. Pearman was calling for his own methods of a single litigation attorney.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerPoint of order. Put your point of order, Member. POINT OF ORDER [Misleading]
Mr. Scott PearmanThe Honourable Member is mi sleading the House. I am on the record as praising the Attorney General for appointing the panel.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerOkay. Hon. Michael J. Scott: Of course he is! Mr. Speaker, he certainly is —
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMember, you should be guided by his comment. Okay? Hon. Michael J. Scott: Of course, the Honourable Member is. But until the Attorney General Simmons appointed the litigation panel, his constant refrain was for a different kind of litigation guardian. And that is a matter of record in the press. …
Member, you should be guided by his comment. Okay? Hon. Michael J. Scott: Of course, the Honourable Member is. But until the Attorney General Simmons appointed the litigation panel, his constant refrain was for a different kind of litigation guardian. And that is a matter of record in the press. But the simple point is that his and our Attorney General has spent committed, thoughtful time at addressing the black lives that matter who have been exposed in this country for many years, long before she became the Attorney General and during certainly the many years that the OBA had the watch of Child and Family Services. She has spent committed and thoughtful time dedicating her energies across many fronts. But this one of protection of children from sex-ual, physical and emotional abuse remains her focus. And so for the [Deputy] Opposition Leader to take her on this evening as she did was to add not hing to the efforts of her colleague, the Opposition spokesman for Legal Affairs, Mr. Pearman. It was to add nothing to it. And when one holds up to levels of energy and commitment to the protection of children in our country, the public, our Government are able to judge that the efforts of our Attorney General have been both stellar, consistent and are making results and are achieving results. So, Mr. Speaker, that is the record, and that is where we are. Senator Kathy Lynn Simmons should not take to heart any of the things that she heard from the House of Assembly tonight about her efforts in relation to taking on the initiative of regulation of cannabis or the attempts at criticising her by the [Deputy] Opposition Leader. She should expect these kinds of assaults. She should stand in the knowledge and stand confident in the knowledge that her efforts on the front of child protection will mark her time as A ttorney General as one of the hig h points and high spots of the administration of justice in our country. And as long as she understands that there will be efforts to deface and devalue her efforts, she will be all right. These are, as I indicated, black lives. And these unprotected liv es, these lives exposed to danger, they matter. And Attorney General Kathy Lynn Simmons knows that they matter. She lives it, and she believes it in her heart of hearts, which is why she brings such resolution to her work in dealing with righting the ship of the Child and Family Services, employing resources and funding sensibly into the Department of Child and Family Services, doing ev erything that she can years later when both historic and 4320 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly legacy failings of many, many past Governments have left our children so exposed. So Mr. Pearman would have liked to have heard me make a speech about the speech that the Deputy Opposition Leader made tonight. But let me assure him that I would never make such a speech of criticism. This is serious work. These are legac y issues. And my singular complaint and criticism of the Shadow Attorney General is that it cannot be made the subject of looking for solutions by discussions in the press endlessly. And what exactly is done? I read them. That cannot be the solution. I know that the A ttorney General is protective of keeping these kinds of discussions out of the press. These lives are black lives, and they do matter. And the press has a dreadful record of parading and penning negative stories in the press. It has been doing so for years, negative stories in the press about the struggles of black people. Now it is black children. It has no place, and the Attorney General is entirely right to have resisted the calls for the release of the names of the panel or to get involved in discu ssions with the Shadow spokesman and to get involved in controversies. These children’s lives matter. It should not become a media circus and a media di scussion, which, surprisingly, Mr. Pearman appears to want to take, has taken, these—
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThere is a point of order. Point of order. Mr. Pearman, put your point of order. POINT OF ORDER [Misleading]
Mr. Scott PearmanThe Honourable and Learned Member is again misleading the House. I have not sought a media circus. I have repeatedly, together with others in the third sector, the charitable sector, called for an independent inquiry into DCFS chaired by a senior lawyer or a judge to find out what is …
The Honourable and Learned Member is again misleading the House. I have not sought a media circus. I have repeatedly, together with others in the third sector, the charitable sector, called for an independent inquiry into DCFS chaired by a senior lawyer or a judge to find out what is going on in respect of over 14 allegations. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Honourable Member, just be guided by his point of order. Continue on. You have got about two minutes left on your time. Hon. Michael J. Scott: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerOkay. Hon. Michael J. Scott: Mr. S peaker, I am really completing my remarks. The amount of stories with the Opposition Shadow Legal Affairs spokesman’s phot ograph emblazoned next to these stories completely supports my position and contradicts the position that he purports to take. And I will end my …
Okay.
Hon. Michael J. Scott: Mr. S peaker, I am really completing my remarks. The amount of stories with the Opposition Shadow Legal Affairs spokesman’s phot ograph emblazoned next to these stories completely supports my position and contradicts the position that he purports to take. And I will end my remarks by commending our Attorney General Senator Kathy Lynn Simmons, for her commitment to this front and for the work that she does, picking up the slack of years of neglect of this department’s work on this front of children exposed to dang er. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member. Does any other Member wish to speak? Does any other Member wish to speak? Hon. E. David Burt: Happy to do so, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMr. Premier, would you to speak up, being no one else wants to speak? Hon. E. David Burt: Happy to do so, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Mr. Premier. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: I am calling out. I am cal ling out.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerHold on, Mr. Premier. There is another voice. [Inaudible interjec tion]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerOpposition Leader, would you like to make a comment at this point? Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerGo right ahead. BLACK LIVES MATTER —BEING ACCOUNTABLE TO ONE ANOTHER Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: It has been an interesting evening. What I would like to start out by saying is that despite some of the going -back -and-forth, the whole matter about Black Lives Matter should not be lost …
Go right ahead.
BLACK LIVES MATTER —BEING ACCOUNTABLE TO ONE ANOTHER
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: It has been an interesting evening. What I would like to start out by saying is that despite some of the going -back -and-forth, the whole matter about Black Lives Matter should not be lost amongst some of the, quite frankly, nonsense that I have heard this evening. Because we need to really centre in on what is most important. For me to listen to comments about members of the OBA and to have nasty reflections upon some of them just does not take the conversation anywhere. And, quite frankly, some of the things that have been said, just like the Honourable Member Jamahl Simmons when he talked about his father’s experience, I get that, because I recognise similarly my father’s experience. Yet out of that experience . . . and one thing that I did take note of was I was never going to join the UBP. And there may be some UBP’ers around
Bermuda House of Assembly me, yes. Just like there are some around me, there are some around him. And some of them are actually Ministers at this time. So to be referring back to issues that we can go back and forth and throw all kinds of mud, I just want to remind Honourable Members there is a lot of mud to be thrown around. So if you are going to throw it, you had better be prepared. It is not improving or enlightening the Black Lives Matter conversation. One of t he things that I am aware of is when I got that call from a white man a couple of weeks ago about Black Lives Matter, and his total disrespect and misunderstanding of the cause and the plight of black men, black women, black kids, whether they be from the lighter persuasion to the darker persuasion, his misunderstanding of what generations of slavery have done to the psyche of today’s men and women who are black . . . completely missed by him. And yes, I spent the next 20 minutes using some colourful language on him. But I realised after 20 minutes that he was still not enlightened. So I had to step back for a minute to listen to what he was sa ying. He did not know how to articulate it well. But what I did hear was that as blacks we have a responsibility to one another to care for one another. And one of the greatest plights we have right now in Bermuda (as the Premier has said, we need to be making decisions for ourselves) black young men are killing each other. And so we must ensure that we are accountable to one another. And that is no disrespect to what we have gone through from the ills of the past that have passed on from generation to generation to us as black men and black women who are adults now. There is no excuse for us to not be looking out for each other as we should. And we understand the n uances that have caused many of these things. But it is up to us. As I was listening to the former Minister Weeks talking about, Well, what now? We have got enough issues right within Bermuda alone that we could be marching on and should have been marching on to the plight of Black Lives Matter. The scourge of us killing one another, quite frankly, is not helping the cause. We have to start showing some love. And we have to insist, whether it was way back wh en it was UBP or when it was PLP, when it was OBA for four years and now PLP again, we must be insisting that our young people get the history taught to them so that can understand how we have gotten to where we are today. But the plight of killing each ot her does no good to our cause. The plight of leaving our women single out there, our f athers not taking care of their kids, that is a responsibi lity of ours. That is not to say that white men are not doing the same thing or whatever the case may be. But w e must be looking out for one another. If there ever was a cause, our arms and our love must be extended to one another in finding ways to prevent this from hap-pening. And we are not talking about this here. We are throwing back charades to one another pol itically. And guess what? The whole night has gone by, and what is the solution? Where is the economic plan? Where is the plan to stop these young men from killing one anot her? What are we going to do that we can do jointly, whether it be OBA/PLP, PLP and OBA jointly working together? As we have worked together on this COVID -19, what are we doing with this plight? And so there needs to be accountability. So when someone questions something, we want to know more about something. Well, why is this the case? We need to ensure that we are being accountable. And not enough accountability is being put out there and pressure by us as black men and black women on our young black boys and young black women—not enough! There are too many people out there who know what is going on. Some may be in the white neighbourhood, but the majority are in the black neighbourhoods, and they know. And so there has to be accountability on our part. If we talk about, Well, you know, take care of your home first , then we as blacks need to be taking care of one another. And I have heard, . . . [MP] Famous brought it up. We need to start getting some of our own businesses going, and all these kinds of things. Yes! Exactly! That is exactly what we need to be doing. And we need to be supporting these enterprises. But what we do and have been doing is dividing one another. Now, I may believe that in order for us to get to an economic balance in this Island, this is probably a preferred route, and the PLP may believe that this is a preferred route. But I do know that if we work these things together, we will come to some conclusions that will work for us. And when I say work for us, I am talking about us as a black people. But we have been spending so much time trying to divide one another; this is just not making any sense to me. Not making any sense to me at all. I will say this to the DCFS thing, there has been a whole lot of talk, yes, about DCFS. But the facts still remain. The former Minister Weeks suspended the leader of that department, and there still has not been any transparency as to exactly why he did that. Now, if the Minister —
Hon. E. David Burt: Point of order, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerPoint of order. We will take the point of order. POINT OF ORDER [Misleading ] Hon. E. Dav id Burt: Mr. Speaker, the Honourable Leader of the Opposition may be unintentionally mi sleading the House. 4322 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly The Honourable Leader knows …
Point of order. We will take the point of order.
POINT OF ORDER [Misleading ]
Hon. E. Dav id Burt: Mr. Speaker, the Honourable Leader of the Opposition may be unintentionally mi sleading the House. 4322 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly The Honourable Leader knows that political Ministers do not get involved in the activities of public servants. Ministers cannot suspend individuals. Those things happen only by the direction of the head of the public service and handled by the public service.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Member, just be guided by the comments. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, the Premier is not clar ifying anything that I do not know. What I am aware of is that that Minister presi ded over it and that Minister condoned the suspension. So …
Thank you. Member, just be guided by the comments. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, the Premier is not clar ifying anything that I do not know. What I am aware of is that that Minister presi ded over it and that Minister condoned the suspension. So I understand what he is saying. But what I am getting to is that we have a si tuation on our hands that there are many, many que stions on facts that have taken place there. And what has been requested is more information about, how are we going to restructure this thing so that we do not see [more of] these atrocities [as happened] in the past? And that has gone unanswered. And so the longer it goes unanswered, the more people are going to ask questions. And so I am approaching this thing from a holistic point of view, trying to seek out answers, be-cause there are many families —and I will preface this here, many black f amilies who have been screaming for answers. They have been in this office. And they have been to government officials. And they have been to Shadow Ministers within the OBA. There are a lot of questions out there, and so we need the [A ttorney General] to address some of these matters so that if she has a plan in place, then let us know what that plan is so we do not see what we are still seeing in the paper, where that department is finding its way to the front page. No reasoning of the media, who is trying to cause a problem. I t’s facts; it is out there. And so we must address this whole issue of accountability. And that is where much of our issues lie. We must be accountable to one another. And so when [MP] Weeks says, Well, what now? The answer is, We must become accountable to each other. That is what has to happen. So just because something happens, if something happens, then we cannot just let it go. There has to be accountability for some of these things. And so if we are going to move throug hout thi s challenge that we are having, and as the Premier said, we can make decisions on our own, I recognise that something that took place in the United States ignited something around the world, and we have participated in this drive that Black Lives Matter. And I appreciate the comments that the Honourable Member Rolfe Commissiong put forward when he spoke about some of the things that should be done. He was hitting the nail right on the head on the things that we need to do. But when the Honour able Member Chris Famous gets up and says, Well, when we start bringing forward stuff, the OBA better not . . . what did he say, Mr. Speaker? I wrote it down. The OBA better not bring any of its ignorance. What in the world is that Honourable Member talking about? If he brings something to the table that we recognise as Black Lives Matter, the OBA in no way—
The SpeakerThe SpeakerPoint of order. POINT OF ORDER
Mr. Christopher FamousI never used the word “ ignorance. ” [Inaudible interjection] Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Then you will be corrected by Hansard. Because I wrote it down immediately.
Mr. Christopher FamousOkay. All right, Mate. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: You said, The OBA better not and white people better not bring forth any ignorance, exact words.
Mr. Christopher FamousSo when did I say the OBA/ignorance? Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: You said the OBA and white people. First you said, White people and the OBA better not bring forth any ignorance.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMembers, we will resolve that with the Hansard later. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Yes. It will be another one of those Hansard issues. And so, Mr. Speaker, what I want to centre around is that there is a talk of it, and that is r eparations. Now, just like I …
Members, we will resolve that with the Hansard later.
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Yes. It will be another one of those Hansard issues. And so, Mr. Speaker, what I want to centre around is that there is a talk of it, and that is r eparations. Now, just like I am sure the Government, I have been reading and I saw just in The Guardian yeste rday where the Lloyd’s of London —two companies, the Lloyd’s of London and the Greene King pub chain are looking to bring reparations for [minorities], many black families who were disadvantaged through slavery. And it was a rather interesting read as I went through it . The Greene King (whose father was named Benjamin Greene) had about 231 slaves. And he was given approximately the equivalent of about £500,000 for the loss of his slaves. And so they have assessed that [this amount] would be the equivalent to today’s money. And so the Lloyd’s of London and this Greene family are seeking to figure out how they can bring about reparations for this.
Bermuda House of Assembly Now, that is commendable. And I am excited to hear that this is going to take place. I also am aware that were many black families . . . white families who will receive compensation as well. So that cer-tainly is something that needs to be looked into. And I have been made aware— and I could be wrong—that that is how the Bank of Butterfield was formed. So hopefully someone can correct that or confirm that. But I am hearing that that is exactly what happened. They put their money together at that time, and they received payment for loss of those slaves, and they formed the Bank of Butterfield. Now, that is a rather interesting thing. And it is something that I believe we should be looking at. But Lloyd’s of London and this Greene family have really started somethi ng that I believe we need to dig into much further. But at the end of the day, after reparations have been made, it cannot be a situation whereby, Okay, well, economic reparations have been made and money is being put into organisations to benefit blacks and the likes. But we as a people cannot continue on creating many of the atrocities that we see happening amongst ourselves. And so the call really is, We must be taking care of one another. That has to be the [plan] And as we work together to ensure that our young kids . . . and I have heard this from one Government to the next. Black history, and especially Caribbean and the slave trade, has to be taught to our young people so that they understand clearly where they are coming from. Now, I do not believe that that is a part of the curriculum as of right now. And I am hoping that as we continue to talk about this, that this will become a reg-ular—
Hon. Diallo V. S. Rabain: Point of order, Mr. Speaker. Point of order, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerTake your point of order. POINT OF ORDER [Misleading] Hon. Diallo V. S. Rabain: Yes. I believe the Member is . . . I will say the Member is misleading the House and the public. And I know it is a popular thing he talks about. I can let this …
Take your point of order.
POINT OF ORDER [Misleading]
Hon. Diallo V. S. Rabain: Yes. I believe the Member is . . . I will say the Member is misleading the House and the public. And I know it is a popular thing he talks about. I can let this Member know very specif ically our social studies curriculum speaks specifically to black Bermudian history, including the Middle Pas-sage of Africa and the effects of slavery on what we see in Bermuda today. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier : That was a point of clarif ication. And I appreciate that, and I am grateful for that. So I am not sure when that started, but that is the beginning of how we are now going to bring back some pride and understanding …
Thank you.
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier : That was a point of clarif ication. And I appreciate that, and I am grateful for that. So I am not sure when that started, but that is the beginning of how we are now going to bring back some pride and understanding to who we are as a people. And since t he Black Lives Matter issue has come about, there have been all kinds of convers ations that have been going on. But I do believe that we have had enough issues of the past that right here within Bermuda itself we have enough motivation to ensure that we move towards fixing these things. And so I have heard where the Honourable Member F amous spoke about, you know, bringing stuff to the t able. And I have also heard that the Premier has been saying, Well, don’t get upset when we start bringing this stuff forwa rd. Well, I am not sure who he was speaking to about getting upset, but it certainly will not be myself and Members of our party who will be getting upset. Of course, we will be seeking out to fine- tune just about everything throughout this legislative pr ocess. But this legislative process is about making sure that we hold everyone accountable. And so when questions are asked, it does not mean that we do not agree. But we want some clarity on some things. And so this notion just because someone is getting up and saying something, whether they be of black or white persuasion, and asking questions does not always mean that it is coming from some darker place. And yes, we need to be having the convers ation, as I said. I go back to the conversation when this young white man had called me (not so young) and his misunderstanding, not understanding what was going on. I had to be reminded–– one thing that we are doing, and that is we are killing each other. We have got to figure out how to stop that. And I do believ e that it begins with education. As it has been said several times this evening, there needs to be education, education, education. So I commend the Education Mini ster if that was an initiative that was started under him. I commend him for it.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerHonourable Member, you are inside of your last minute. Less than a minute. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. So accountability has to be taking place. And so a whole lot of noise can be made about questions that are being asked. But at t he end of …
Honourable Member, you are inside of your last minute. Less than a minute.
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. So accountability has to be taking place. And so a whole lot of noise can be made about questions that are being asked. But at t he end of the day, we have to be accountable, Mr. Speaker, to one another. Lloyd’s of London has taken the first step, white men taking the first steps to reparations. We need to be making sure that we are not killing one another, that we are growing as a people and as a nation. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member. Does any other Member wish to speak? Any other Member? Hon. E. David Burt: I am ready, Mr. Speaker. 4324 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly The Speaker: Mr. Premier. Hon. E. David Burt: Good evening, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerGood evening. Hon. E. David Burt: It feels as though if we are back in Veritas Place or even the House of Parliament because this is a late night. But it has been a busy day, certainly, five pieces of legislation that were passed by this Government. We are continuing …
Good evening. Hon. E. David Burt: It feels as though if we are back in Veritas Place or even the House of Parliament because this is a late night. But it has been a busy day, certainly, five pieces of legislation that were passed by this Government. We are continuing to advance our agenda. And even though most of the day was civil, of course, there was some hype where there were, I would say, some attempts to rewrite history, Mr. Speaker. And there has been a lot of, you know, rewriting history that has been taking place.
DEPARTMENT OF CHILD AND FAMILY SERVICES
Hon. E. David Burt: And I will say this, Mr. Speaker, that my desire to be a better leader of this country and a better bipartisan Premier, despite those things I am certainly not going to let persons launch ad hominem attacks, certainly not from the Deputy Leader of the Opposition to the Minister of Legal Affairs and the A ttorney General, who sits in another place. Because, Mr. Speaker, I have seen first -hand how deeply the Attorney General cares about the children of this country and how much she has done in the last 20 months as the Minister responsible for children and families. And, Mr. Speaker, I know that Honourable Members opposite have even had a chance to speak with the Attorney General. And so for an attack like that at a time when the Leader of the Opposition is calling us to build each other up, from (I am just going to say it) another black female, is sad. But it is not surprising, Mr. Speaker. It is not s urprising. Here is what I will say, Mr. Speaker. Where other Governments in the past may have failed our children, we will not do so. And it is because, as I said yesterday, we did not need a protest or a murder of a black man in Minnesota to wake us up as a Gover nment to the reality that black lives matter. So whether it is a budget priority of this Government, which has recognised that you cannot kick people out of a sy stem at the age of 18, you have to continue to provide services to them; whether or not it is the additional investment of which we are making in our young people, whether it is education; whether it is the plain and simple fact, Mr. Speaker, that while people are calling for the defunding of the police, this Government has reduced police spending and redirected that towards gang intervention on those types of issues, and job readiness training, and Redemption Farm and making sure we are dealing with mental health, and making sure we are addressing problems and making sure that we are in sc hools, Mr. Speaker. So when the Opposition Leader speaks about solutions, those are the solutions, Mr. Speaker. And here is what I will say. Because even if the Attorney General laid out a plan, I am certain for some Members opposite it would not be good enough, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, certain people will have more fun and joy playing politics with young black children and their lives than trying to work together and recognising the work of which [INAUDIBLE] to be accomplished to remedy multiple generat ions of trauma. So here is what I am going to say, Mr. Speaker. Our team will continue the work, and we will let the work speak for itself. Whether those are the families which contact myself or contact the Attorney General with the praise and thanks and gratitude, whether it is the multiple unscheduled visits that the Attorney General takes out of her own time to make sure that those young people who do not have parents to look up to or in our care have a mother figure in the Attorney General. I will not allow the Opposition to attack them. I will not allow the Opposition to attack her, Mr. Speaker. Because there is a lot of work of which we are doing, and we have made a lot of difference in the three years since we have been in this job to make up for the four-and-a-half years of neglect, cuts in funding, reductions in services that were laid by the former Government, Mr. Speaker. So we will not be lectured on that point, Mr. Speaker. And as much as I am trying my best to r emain in a bipartisan fashion, s haring briefs and enga ging conversations, I am not going to allow Members on that side to impugn the integrity of the Honourable Attorney General, Mr. Speaker.
SYSTEMIC RACISM IN BERMUDA
Hon. E. David Burt: Now, Mr. Speaker, I have heard a lot tonight about Black Lives Matter. And here is what I will say, Mr. Speaker. Words do not matter. Action matters. And support for these causes is great. But it is whether or not you can commit to action. The Honourable Leader of the Opposition asked, What is the solution? The solution is simple,
Mr. SpeakerChanging the conversation and chan ging the dynamic of which we are living proof. And so, while persons are saying that we are dividing people, I do not think that we are dividing people. I think that we are unif ying. Because I am grateful that persons in this country …
Changing the conversation and chan ging the dynamic of which we are living proof. And so, while persons are saying that we are dividing people, I do not think that we are dividing people. I think that we are unif ying. Because I am grateful that persons in this country are awakening to the cause of racial jus-tice. But just like the Honourable Opposition Leader had a phone call from someone, I had a conversation with someone last week, Mr. Speaker. And I remember asking this particular indivi dual whether or not they thought that Bermuda had a race problem. And the answer would shock many because it was, Well, I don’t think that Bermuda has a race problem. I don’t think that people in Bermuda are KKK racist. I just think they’re racist -lite. Those are the
Bermuda House of Assembly attitudes, Mr. Speaker, about which we are dealing with. So for Honourable Members to speak about the fact that the symptom which manifests itself in i nequality of opportunity, of inequality in economic attainment, in inequality of generational wealth, manifests itself in violence and gang violence, we have to recognise that this is the symptom of the problem. And we must make sure that we put our attention to fixing the problem, Mr. Speaker. So when we hear the protestations from the other side, Mr. Speaker, about the things which are necessary to change that, let us be clear, Mr. Speaker. This Government is the first Government in history that has taxed unearned wealth! And we have heard nothing but consternation f rom the party opposite for that, Mr. Speaker. But that is how you unwind this sy stem. And I actually believe, Mr. Speaker, that the Honourable Opposition Leader means well. I do. B ecause I know from my conversations with him that he wants and feels the need for racial justice. But the problem is, Mr. Speaker, and I will just say it this way—many of his supporters do not. They just do not, because they do not recognise the problem that exists. You cannot say that you want black lives to matter and you want violence to end without having the difficult talks and difficult conversations of what is necessary to achieve racial justice in this country. Yes, education is a part of it, without question. And yes, as the Honourable Minister of Education stated, under his tenure black history is mandatory through all of our public schools. This is new, but that, Mr. Speaker, in one year is not going to annul 400 years of miseducation. And that, Mr. Speaker, is just a start. But what we have to understand and reco gnise is that this is deep- seated. And if we are not wil ling to continue to talk about it, if we are not willing to confront it where it exists, and if we are not willing to say, like that police officer who the Honourable Kim Swan spoke about, Guess what? We w ere wrong, and we apologise, then we are not going to go anywhere. And that is just the first step. Because as Sir Hilary Beckles said today, Apologies are not enough. The question is, What are you going to do to make sure that we can live in harmony goin g forward, Mr. Speaker? So I appreciate the consciousness, and I appreciate the awakening. But words are not enough, Mr. Speaker. They must be matched by action. It must be matched by legislation. And it must be matched by recognising that you must dismantle systems of injustice at their core, Mr. Speaker.
COVID -19—LIFTING THE STATE OF EMERGENCY
Hon. E. David Burt: And so, I will switch, Mr. Speaker, in the time that I have left, to the issues of the health crisis, because here we sit three months after the closing of our borders, and we have come a long way over the last three months. So next time we meet, Mr. Speaker, it is my expectation that we will no longer as a country be in a state of emergency. The next time we meet, Mr. Speaker, our borders wil l be open. The next time we meet, Mr. Speaker, it is my expectation that we will be in phase 4. All of these things, all of this progress, Mr. Speaker, all of the moving through these stages is certainly a risk. But I am certain that the work of the Cabinet Committee led by Col. Burch, the work of the Minister of Health in making sure that we maintain our health standards, the work of the Minister of National Security in making sure that we enforce these standards, and the work of the Minister of Tourism and Transport to ensure that we can get our hotel workers back to work and get visitors on these shores safely is continuing. And we had good news yesterday, Mr. Speaker, of another hotel that is going to reopen their doors. And I would hope that all Honour able Members would commit to supporting not only the reopening of our economy, but reminding all of our constituents that the battle is far from won. We have seen what happens in countries where they are lax about the situ ation and where they are not under standing that this health crisis and this disease is something that has to be continuously battled, Mr. Speaker. We have had success because as a country we have united. And we have done what is required to keep this virus at bay. But if we let our guard down when we leave the state of emergency, if we let our guard down when tourists come to our shores, if we let our guard down as the summer hots up— and the summer starts in, I think on Sunday —we will find ourselves going bac kwards. So it is my hope, wish and desire, at least when it comes to attacking the health crisis and at least when it comes to tackling the economic crisis, that we can be unified in our particular approach. B ecause it is essential for the country and the people who we serve that we rec ognise the hard times of which we had will only get harder if we do not pay at-tention to the health of our economy. So, Mr. Speaker, with that I will close this m otion to adjourn by wishing a very Happy Father’s Day to all of the fathers out there, Mr. Sp eaker. Happy F ather’s Day to you. Happy Father’s Day to all of the fathers in this Honourable Chamber, and Happy F ather’s Day to all of the staff who work in this Honour able Chamber, and Happy Father’s Day to all of those in this country. Father’s play a v ery important role in our society, Mr. Speaker, and it is important that we honour them appropriately. I want to pay special tribute to my father on this particular Father’s Day, which is coming up on Sunday, a man who has taught me the value of hard work. And there are so many fathers and great exam4326 19 June 2020 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly ples inside of this country, Mr. Speaker. And it is i mportant that we do the work to continue to build up the men of this country, especially the black men of this country, so that they know that this country in which they were born, has a place for them, Mr. Speaker, and that the fathers of the young black children who are being born and being raised, Mr. Speaker, know that they have a future in a country where their lives matter. So, Mr. Speaker, I wish you and honourable colleagues well.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerPremier, thank you for your comments this evening. Members, we thank you for your debate this evening, today. And we have been here some 13 hours, roughly. With that, I would like to wish all f athers Happy Fat her’s Day. And we stand adjourned this evening until the 3 …
Some Hon. Members Some Hon. MembersGood night. [At 11:51 pm, the House stood adjourned until 10:00 am Friday, 3 July 2020.]