The SpeakerThe SpeakerMembers, the Minutes from the 30th of November have been circulated. Are there any omissions or corrections? There are none. The Minutes have been confirmed. [Minutes of 30 November 2018 confirmed] MESSAGES FROM THE GOVERNOR
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThere are none. ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE SPEAKER OR MEMBER PRESIDING APOLOGIES
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThe announcement this morning is that we have been informed that Minister De Silva will be absent, as he is off the Island today. And I have only just been informed the MP Weeks will be out because he is ill today. MESSAGES FROM THE SENATE
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThere are none. PAPERS AND OTHER COMMUNICATIONS TO THE HOUSE
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThere is one paper this morning in the name of the Minister of Finance. Minister. BERMUDA FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY PANE L 2018 ANNUAL ASSESSMENT Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speak er, I have the honour to attach and submit for the information of the Honourable House of Assembly the Bermuda Fiscal …
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThere are none. STATEMENTS BY AND JUNIOR MINISTERS
The SpeakerThe SpeakerWe have four Statements this morning. The first is in the name of the Honourable Premier. Premier, would you like to present your Statement? Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you. Good morning, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerGood morning. THE 2018 JOINT MINISTERIAL COUNCIL AND RELATED MEETINGS IN THE UK AND EUROPE Hon. E. David Burt: Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to provide an update to this House and the public on my meetings in the U nited Kingdom and Europe, including the annual Joint Ministerial Council …
Good morning.
THE 2018 JOINT MINISTERIAL COUNCIL AND RELATED MEETINGS IN THE UK AND EUROPE Hon. E. David Burt: Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to provide an update to this House and the public on my meetings in the U nited Kingdom and Europe, including the annual Joint Ministerial Council with the United Kingdom Government. Mr. Speaker, the development of business opportunities for Bermuda in London was the focus of my first three days of the trip where I was able to support the Bermuda Business Development Agency London Executive Forum, the Bermuda FinTech F orum, and Beyond Convergence hosted by ILS Berm uda. In addition to participating in the events , I hosted a number of meetings with persons interested in inves ting in Bermuda. Mr. Speaker, Bermuda continues to translate its excellent reputation into economic growth. Eric Bertrand, founding partner of Centaur Fund Services, praised the BDA [Bermuda Business Development Agenc y] forum —his first as an industry par ticipant — where he spoke on a panel about innovative trends in alternative assets. Mr. Ber trand said, “In 2015 when we decided to establish an offshore jurisdiction, we had options, but we decided Bermuda was the place for us to do 294 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly our business. Three years later, we’ve grown from one to 16 people in our Hamilton offices —so, it proves our point .” He went on to continue to say, Mr. Speaker, and I quote, “I wanted to share our story that Bermuda is a jurisdiction of choice and a great place in which to complete a global presence. We have several offices around the world, but Bermuda is a very i mportant one for us.” Mr. Speaker, last Tuesday, along with Berm udian insurance pioneer, Brian Duperreault, I partic ipated in the opening panel at the Bermuda FinTech Forum. The forum attracted investors, tech industry professionals, support industries and leaders of sev-eral recent Bermuda start -ups. The discussion titled “Innovation Island: Why Industry Pioneers Choose Bermuda,” highlighted Bermuda’s history of innovation in insurance and compared Bermuda’s role in that industry’s evolution with the current disruption seen with FinTech. Mr. Speaker, I endorse the comments of the CEO of the BMA [Bermuda Monetary Authority], Mr. Jeremy Cox, who said, “London is an important market for Bermuda, so this offered us a great opportunity to educate, raise awareness, and answer in- depth questions. The BMA was proud to participate in an initiative that raised Bermuda’s profile and underscored our world- class regulatory reputation.” Mr. Speaker, while overseas , I had the opportunity to host two networking receptions for Bermudi-ans living in the United Kingdom , organised by the London Office. The first event was the annual networking reception in London. It is an opportunity for Bermudians to network amongst themselves and with the industry participants who attended the BDA forum and, at the same time, engage directly with myself on the issues they feel are crucial. The second event was a result of a promise I made last year to reach out to those Bermudians further north. The event was held in Nottingham, the first of an annual series in different locations outside of London. I was honoured to see Bermudians still very much connected to their home and remaining in contact with Bermudians across the United Kingdom, supporti ng each other on a daily basis. What was most gratifying about the interactions, Mr. Speaker, is that a vast majority of Bermudians living in the United Kingdom planned on returning to Bermuda after they completed their studies and skills training. I pledged that the Government will ex ecute its plans to ensure that there is a place for them here when they return home. Mr. Speaker, the London office will take extra steps to ensure that they are available to those in the United Kingdom as far as Scotland and even through-out Europe. In addition to these annual networking events , the London Office will provide open walk -in Consular Days in various locations across the United Kingdom, starting in the New Year. [Desk thumping]
Hon. E. David Burt: Mr. Speaker, Honourable Members will be aware of the considerable consultation and technical efforts that have been devoted to ad-dressing the issue of our assessment by the EU Code of Conduct Group, as it looks to create a list of noncooperative jurisdictions for tax purposes. A principal focus of my time in Europe was to engage at the poli tical level of the European Union to build relationships in Brussels for Bermuda. Mr. Speaker, discussi ons were held with EU Permanent Representatives in Brussels and tax att achés with the Governments of Slovenia, Malta, Lith uania, Bel gium, Switzerland , and Romania. The m eeting with the Romanian Ambassador to the EU was critical in understanding the agenda for the Romanian Presidency of the European Council from this January, particularly as we prepare for the opening of our Brussels Office. The Romanian Ambassador and I had firm discussions not only on Bermuda’s assessment by the Code of Conduct Group, but in understanding the i mmense challenges ahead for Romania in managing the implications of the possible exit of the United Kingdom from the European Union. Mr. Speaker, the consistent message deli vered and conveyed to all EU Member States with whom I met is that Bermuda is a high- quality jurisdiction which has been a leader in global tax transpare ncy. Mr. Speaker, following my meetings in Brussels, I returned to London. And i t is important to renew “Bermuda friendships .” In this regard, I had the opportunity to re -engage with key stakeholders of the UK Houses of Parliament through a meeting with the Bri tain–Bermuda All Party Parliamentary Group. Together with the Chair, Sir David Amess MP , and the Bermuda London Office, a program me of key engagement events with the All Party Parliamentary Group have now been agreed and began with this initial meeting. These scheduled events were developed with a view to culti vating an accurate understanding of Bermuda and where we see our agenda for the future — essentially , making our friends before we need them. Mr. Speaker, Honourable Members will be awar e that the UK Government organis es an annual meeting for the leaders of the Overseas Territories to engage with Ministers on points of mutual interest. Mr. Speaker, I was joined by the Honourable Member, the Minister for the Cabinet Office. The c ouncil was chaired by Minister of State for the Foreign & Commonwealth Office, Lord Ahmad, of Wimbledon. Mr. Speaker, Honourable Members will also be aware of the significant polit ical issues unfolding daily in the United Kingdom . In an effort to provide information to the O verseas Territorie s, the Joint Mi nisterial Council heard from the Parliamentary Under Secretary of State, at the Department for Exiting the
Bermuda House of Assembly European Union, Robin Walker MP. With the ongoing uncertainty surrounding virtually every aspect of the Brexit debate, the impact of the UK leaving the EU on the Overseas Territories will continue to be monitored by this Government , and Bermuda made ready for any scenario. Minister Robin Walker assured l eaders that the UK is obligated under the Constitution to set the framework which works for the entire UK family inclu ding the Overseas Territories , and to take into account any current relationship with the EU. Mr. Speaker, f ollowing the debate and vote in the UK Parliament next week, I may be better placed to update Honourable Members and the public on i ssues related to free movement throughout the EU, continued access to the Schengen Area as British Overseas Territories c itizens, and the impact, if any, on those Bermudians who possess a British Citizen-ship passport. Initial indications are that those Berm udians who do possess a British Citizenship passport will be subject to the terms of the w ithdrawal agreement, whether the deal is passed through the UK Parliament or a no- deal scenario arises with no arrangements in place. In a no- deal scenario, contingency plans will be implemented by the UK Government , as it will be their responsibility to their wider citizenry. Mr. Speaker, on a weekly basis , Bermudians experience disruption to their travel arrangements as a result of the long- standing passport issue with which Honourable Members are familiar. While at the JMC [Joint Ministerial Council] , Minister Brown held a pr oductive m eeting with representatives of Her Majesty’s Passport Office, and we believe we have moved closer to resolving the problem of Bermuda passports be-ing printed and issued in the United Kingdom. We had firm assurance, this time at ministerial level, that the matter will be resolved. I will continue to press the United Kingdom Government on this issue until an acceptable solution is in place. Mr. Speaker, this was my second attendance at the Joint Ministerial Council , and doing so against the backdrop of such a significant issue as Brexit rei nforced the necessity for Overseas Territories generally, and Bermuda in particular, to continue the work to diversify our economy and promote economic growth to the benefit of our people here at home. The sustainability of our quality of life and the necessary improvement of the lives of our citizens are squarely our responsibility. Global trends and the competing political interests among the EU family of nations demand that local governments do all they can to insulate t heir economies, their communities and their development from these events , which are far beyond our influence and control. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Mr. Premier. The next Statement this morning is in the name of the Deputy Premier. Deputy Premier, would you like to present your Statement? Hon. Walter H. Roban: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Good morning to everyone. Good morning to Berm uda.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerGood morning. INVESTIGATING COMPLAINTS OF PRICE GOUGING Hon. Walter H. Roban: Mr. Speaker, I rise to highlight Consumer Affairs’ efforts to investigate complaints from the public regarding alleged price gouging . Mr. Speaker, Consumer Affairs has received a number of complaints about the hike in prices of certain staples. Persons …
Good morning.
INVESTIGATING COMPLAINTS OF PRICE GOUGING
Hon. Walter H. Roban: Mr. Speaker, I rise to highlight Consumer Affairs’ efforts to investigate complaints from the public regarding alleged price gouging . Mr. Speaker, Consumer Affairs has received a number of complaints about the hike in prices of certain staples. Persons have complained that some food retailers have tried to blame the rise in the prices on the new sugar tax for goods that are not covered under the tax. Similarly, persons have also sent me pi ctures of fresh vegetables with prices that appear to be exorbitant. Unfortunately, with the higher seasonal demand on certain goods, it seems that the prices of certain items are always higher this time of the year. This year, as has been true in recent years, some persons are having to forgo enjoying their traditional foods because they are finding it harder to make ends meet. Mr. Speaker, Honourable Members and the general public may not be aware that the Consumer Protection Act 1999 ( the Act ) gives Consumer Affairs the authority to investigate complaints of price goug-ing. This comes under the heading of Part III, UNFAIR BUSINESS PRACTICES. Section 11( 1)(b)(ii) of the Act states the following: “11(1) For the purposes of this Part the follo wing shall be deemed to be unfair business practices — “(b) an unconscionable consumer represent ation made in respect of a particular transaction and, in determining whether or not a consumer representation is unconscionable, ther e may be taken into account that the person making the representation or his employer or principal knows or ought to know . . .” “(ii) that the price to be charged will grossly exceed the estimated or quoted price, or that the price grossly exceeds the pr ice at which similar goods or services are readily available to like consumers . . .” Mr. Speaker, as you are aware, in Bermuda, where we import the majority of our foods and mater ials, it is often difficult to assess fair pricing. Rising food prices are a global issue and, as Bermuda is part of the global economy, we are also affected. Pricing, however, is subject to many variables such as global market influences, natural disasters and conflicts, product volume and country of origin, negotiated price, ship ping, customs duty, taxes and local oper ational costs, to name a few. In addition, many of our 296 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly items are shipped in smaller quantities , which drives up the price per unit. As an example, you would have also been aware of the recent recall , right here in Bermuda, of romaine lettuce. A few days ago, there was a story on the US news about the recall of certain beef products. The scarcity created by these recalls pushes up pri ces, particularly when they have to be pur chased from countries farther away than t he U nited States . Because of the greater distances, the cost of shipping will also rise. Mr. Speaker, in addition to the costs to i mported food, we must also take into consideration that retailers must add on a percentage to pay their staff and operating costs, and to earn a profit in order to keep them operating. This also applies to fresh pr oduce. Our farmers must also pay import costs for seed and other supplies , in addition to paying staff and ot her operating costs. Mr. Speaker, we appreciate that Ber muda businesses are facing a shrinking market share, higher operational cost and a decline in consumer spend-ing. But we must also remember that the high cost of food contributes to the high cost of living, which i mpacts the quality of life for most of the general public. Honourable Members would be aware that a good indication of how the prices will impact spending on food is through the Consumer Price Index ( CPI), provided monthly by the Department of Statistics. The index for their food basket consist s of 60 food items listed under the following 10 categories: 1. Bakery Products ; 2. Cereals and Cereal Products ; 3. Dairy ; 4. Meats and Fish; 5. Oils and Fats ; 6. Fruit; 7. Vegetables ; 8. Sugar and Confectionary ; 9. Prepared Foods and Snac ks; 10. Non-Alcoholic Beverages . The average annual increase of prices for food since 2013 ranges from a low of 1.4 per cent to a high of 3.1 per cent as compared to income for most consumers that either remains static , at best , or decreases , at worst. Mr. Speaker, i t is incumbent upon us to be vigilant and informed consumers who will check prices before buying; know which foods are in season; and, if looking for fresh foods, support our local farmers. Consumers can also question any exorbitant price changes with store managers , because sometimes the pricing may be the result of human error. Having said that, I want to assure the public that Consumer Affairs will continue to investigate all complaints of alleged price gouging, whether food or services. Thank you. Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Deputy. The next Statement this morning is in the name of the Honourable Minister Brown. Minister. Hon. Walton Brown: Yes, good morning, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerGood morning. UPDATE ON THE CODE OF PRACTICE FOR PROJECT MANAGEMENT AND PROCUREMENT — FRAMEWORK AGREEMENTS Hon. Walton Brown: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to pr ovide an update to the Members of this Honourable House and the people of Bermuda on the implement ation of the Code of Practice …
Good morning.
UPDATE ON THE CODE OF PRACTICE FOR PROJECT MANAGEMENT AND PROCUREMENT — FRAMEWORK AGREEMENTS
Hon. Walton Brown: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to pr ovide an update to the Members of this Honourable House and the people of Bermuda on the implement ation of the Code of Practice for Project Management and Procurement . In particular, I wish to focus on the work that is being undertaken to implement framework agreements. The Code of Practice for Project Management and Procur ement was implemented on July 2, 2018. Accordingly, the public service is now taking the necessary steps to implement procurement strategies that leverage the Government’s purchasing power, maxi mise effi ciencies and achieve cost savings. To this end, the G overnment is identifying opportunities to aggr egate purchases and negotiate favourable rates. Mr. Speaker, the code, in accordance with section 35, Framework Agreements, sets out conditions for the use of framework agreements by public officers when the G overnment wishes to contract for the provision of goods and services. Mr. Speaker, a framework agreement maxi mises economy, efficiency and effectiveness in pr ocurement. It consolidates the g overnment’s buying power and gives public officers the flexibilit y to order goods and services from private sector suppliers , without going through the full tender application pr ocess more than once during a defined period. This is as opposed to each d epartment and/ or ministry undertaking a tendering process to acquire the same goods and services for their individual shops. The admini strative burden associated with the repetitive tendering processes throughout government has proven to be time- and cost -prohibitive and contributes to ongoing inefficiency. Mr. Speaker, wh en setting up a framework, the Government, via the Office of Project Manag ement and Procurement, will run a full procurement exercise to select suitable suppliers , and set terms and prices for a period. The suppliers are awarded a place on the framework agreement , and individual departments and ministries will not have to engage in any further tendering for the relevant product or service during the term of the agreement. Mr. Speaker, at present, framework agreements are being developed for the procurement of commodities such as office supplies, uniforms, tel eBermuda House of Assembly communications services, and other standard operating products and services. Mr. Speaker, the Government will commence the implementation of framework agreements with mobile devices and services. Mr. Speaker, in accor dance with the code, several months ago , the Office of Project Management and Procurement used a r estricted tendering procurement method to solicit quo-tations for the provision of a varied menu of mobile services. The objective of the soli citation was to s ecure fixed and preferential pricing from the carriers. Mr. Speaker, in response to the solicitation, the relevant carriers developed specific packages , based upon the services required by the bulk of the Government’s mobile users. Each s ervice package takes into account cost -saving initiatives such as the inclusion of overages in data usage management , a data provision to include free access to the Gover nment and officially nominated sites , and the elimination of charges for overages. In order to determine the optimal combinations of services and prices, as part of the tendering process , carriers were asked to submit their best and final offers. Mr. Speaker, the terms of the framework agreement ar e now being finalis ed, and it is expected that its use will prov ide for more efficient and cost - effective purchases of mobile devices and services. The main purpose of this approach is to ensure that consistent and cost -effective rates are applied, for the benefit of all Government’s mobile users. Device types will be standardis ed via bulk purchases of unlocked devices , and devise usage will be managed in a further effort to control costs. Mr. Speaker, the Government expects that it will have at least three framework agreements for various produc ts and services in place by the end of this fiscal year. The advantages to the Government of using framework agreements include less downtime be-tween identifying a need and fulfilling it; a reduction in administrative costs , with the removal of the full pr ocurement process for every requirement; and potential savings with economies of scale, in that suppliers may offer more competitive prices. Mr. Speaker, suppliers will also benefit from the introduction of framework agreements with the reduction in the a dministrative burden , due to a streamlined procedure in working with the Gover nment. Mr. Speaker, framework agreements save time. This is especially true for relatively simple, frequently repeated purchases, such as office supplies. Fram ework agreements wi ll allow the Government to choose suppliers that offer long- term value , so as to reduce overall procurement costs and save internal r esources. The Government will also have certainty , as prices are set for the duration of the term of the framework. Mr. Speaker, framework agreements provide for the implementation of processes that promote agility, enabling public officers to react and adapt op-timally in a speedy and cost -effective manner, whilst maintaining good governance practices. Mr. Speaker, this Government will continue to focus on maintaining internal efficiency and effectiv eness by implementing processes and policies estab-lished to drive accountability of all public officers. Our vision is a future- forward Government for the people of Bermuda. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Minister. The final Statement this morning is in the name of the Minister of National Security. Minister, would you like to present your Statement? Hon. Wayne Caines: If it pleases you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerContinue. ROYAL BERMUDA REGIMENT UPDATE Hon. Wayne Caines: Mr. Speaker, since my last u pdate on the Royal Bermuda Regiment four months ago, the Royal Bermuda Regiment has been hard at work, focuse d on transforming into a modern -day organisation that is fit for purpose in Bermuda. I would …
Continue.
ROYAL BERMUDA REGIMENT UPDATE Hon. Wayne Caines: Mr. Speaker, since my last u pdate on the Royal Bermuda Regiment four months ago, the Royal Bermuda Regiment has been hard at work, focuse d on transforming into a modern -day organisation that is fit for purpose in Bermuda. I would like to provide this Honourable House with an update. Mr. Speaker, after consultation with the Mini stry of Nat ional Security and Government House, the Bermuda Regiment’s Strategic Review Working Group concluded its work and made several key recommendations. The first of these recommendations is that the Bermuda Regiment must redouble its efforts and invest in its people. To this end, the Regiment is reinfor cing its Training Wing so that its training is delivered to a higher standard, and externally validated where po ssible. Soldiers will pick up more qualifications and have greater opportunities to attend courses both locally and overseas. Secondly, Mr. Speaker, the Bermuda Regiment aspires to offer learning credits to soldiers who are in good standing , in order to further their education and development. Growing the capability of the men and women who make up the Regiment can only result in growth of the capability of the Regiment as a whole. Mr. Speaker, the third recommendation is that the structure of the Regiment will change for the better to reflect its operational output and its volunteer status. In November , the Regiment reduced from five to three companies , to form two operational companies of about 100 soldiers each, supported by a Logistics Company and a Training Wing. Internal security in support of the Bermuda Police Service is the focus of A Company, w hile B Company has a dual focus on Humanitarian Aid and Disaster Relief, both locally and overseas, and on ceremonial duties, including Band Displays. Mr. Speaker, in the absence of any direct hits by major storms during the just -concluded hurricane 298 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly seaso n, the Regiment has been able to direct its focus on enhanced training. There were two camps held this fall. A Company, the Band and Signalers completed the second half of their local camp in October. Over the course of camp, A Company honed internal secur ity drills, the B and par ticipated in school engagements and the Signalers received on I sland training from Bri tish Army Signalers. The Boat Troop also held their two-week camp. Features of this year’s camp included oil booming with R UBiS , navigation traini ng, boarding drills and port security training. Mr. Speaker, the Royal Bermuda Regiment continues to offer soldiers opportunities for military, professional and personal development. During this period, soldiers and officers attended a variety of courses overseas. Three officers attended [ courses at ] the Defence Academy of the United Kingdom at Shri venham , with two completing the Advance Command and Staff Course, and one completing the Intermediate Comma nd and Staff Course. Four soldiers successfully completed the All Arms Basic Drill Course at Catter-ick, UK. One soldier will attend the Warrant Officer’s Course at the Caribbean Institute of Professional Mil itary Education at the Moneague Training Camp in Jamaica. Mr. Speaker, this fall also saw the conclusion of the Junior Non -Commissioned Officers Cadre and the promotion of several soldiers. The cadre co mprised two phases: a tactics phase , which concluded with a test exercise at Camp Lejeune, North Carol ina, in May; and the Defen ce Instructional Techniques phase, which concluded this fall. The cadre is the first rank that a soldier can obtain. It teaches soldiers how to command, administer and teach a section of up to 12 soldiers. In November, 14 soldiers completed the course and were promoted to Lance Corporal. Mr. Speaker, additional promotions within the Royal Bermuda Regiment included six soldiers pr omoted to Corporal, five soldiers promoted to Sergeant and three soldiers were promoted to Colour Sergeant. All promotions were recogni sed and celebrated at the Commanding Officer’s Parade. These promotions are an excellent indicator of the dedication of Royal Bermuda Regiment soldiers to service to their country , and to their own personal development. Mr. Speaker, in addition to the military and command courses offered to soldiers, the Royal Bermuda Regiment has been delivering a GED ( General Education Diploma ) course. There are currently 11 soldiers participating. Four soldiers have already obtained their GED certificate through the programme. The courses are taught at Warwick Camp by exper ienced instructors. In 2019, the Regiment intends to expand the education and development opportunities that are available to all of its soldiers. These subs idised, further education opportunities make the Regiment more attractive to potential recruits and , in turn , produce higher -quality soldiers with demonstrated i nvestment in their own advancement. Mr. Speaker, one of the benefits of joining the Royal Bermuda Regiment is gaining skills that can be transferred to civilian life. Earlier this year, four Regiment medics completed the St. John’s Ambulance Emergency Medical Responder course. These new medics will complement the handful of doctors, nurses and emergency medical technicians already serving within the Royal Bermuda Regiment . This fall, the medics attended the St. John’s Ambulance First Aid Instructors Course. Having completed the Instructors Course, the medics will be able to deliver the eight - hour St . John’s Ambulance First Aid Course to the entire Regiment in 2019. Mr. Speaker, if you have been to any major event in the lead -up to the holiday season, it would have been impossible for you to miss the Royal Ber-muda Regiment Band and Corps of Drums. Starting with Remembrance Day observances in November , to the annual Santa Clause Parade, various tree- lightings and wal kabouts, the Band has been ever -present and in fine form. Furthermore, the Royal Bermuda Regiment Band has been lending support to various school music program mes and, in turn, has benefited from 10 student bandsmen bolstering its ranks. Mr. Speaker, 2018 has been a turning point for the Regiment with respect to the formal end of con-scription. Looking forward, 2019 will be the year when the seeds of change bear fruit. The renewed offer to our soldiers of enhanced training, and increased education and development , will be a key feature. The Regiment will continue to market itself as a feasible long- term career, which will provide leadership and management training for enlisted ranks and [junior o fficers ]. Mr. Speaker, i n July 2018, the Regiment held its first summer recruit camp. The recruit camp was the first camp run specifically for a platoon -sized intake and aimed to cover less material , but to a higher standard. This model proved to be one of the most successful recruit camps in recent memory. In 2019, the Regiment will follow up the two- intake model , with the first intake on February 17, 2019, and the second will be on June 30, 2019. Any person interested in joi ning can call the Bermuda Regiment number, 238 - 1045—238- 1045. Or, they can visit the Royal Bermuda Regiment’s website at www. rbr.bm . In 2019, the Regiment will have in place a framework to recruit all year round, which will allow soldiers to start training imm ediately. Mr. Speaker, work continues to stand up the much- anticipated Coast Guard Unit. The Regiment has taken possession of Watford House on W atford Island , and, pending final approvals, a floating dock and fencing will be installed. Early in the n ew year, a Royal N avy training team will be on I sland to review the work done to ensure that the proposed training in the pipeline is UK Maritime and Coast Guard Agency compl iant. The training team will also review implementation timelines for feasibility. It is the Regiment’s intent that
Bermuda House of Assembly the new Coast Guard will work jointly with the Berm uda Police Service during the first year to enable trai ning to be completed and for Coast Guard personnel to gain experience. Mr. Speaker, early in the New Year , the Royal Bermuda Regiment will roll- out its five -year plan. The plan provides for a medium - and long- term roadmap for reali sing the changes that the Bermuda Regiment intends to m ake toward moderni sation. Change will not happen overnight, but the Royal Bermuda Regiment is up to the challenge. The Commanding Officer and his staff are motivated and committed to delivering a first - class Regiment that is able to quickly adapt and r espond to the Island’s security and protection needs. Bermuda is a small and isolated island, and the Regiment plays a central role in maintaining our autonomy and independence in the face of disaster and the unknown. It is hoped that , in 2019, with the evolution of the Royal Bermuda Regiment Coast Guard, the Regi-ment will provide an even greater benefit and service to the people of Bermuda. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Minister. That brings us to a conclusion of the Minister ial Statements for this morning. REPORTS OF COMMITTEES
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThere are none. QUESTION PERIOD
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThere are three written [answers] before us this morning. The first question this morning is from the Leader of the Opposition to the Honourable Premier. Each of these questions, I must stress, have just sought to have a written answer rather than an oral answer on the floor. So, the …
There are three written [answers] before us this morning. The first question this morning is from the Leader of the Opposition to the Honourable Premier. Each of these questions, I must stress, have just sought to have a written answer rather than an oral answer on the floor. So, the first is to the Premier from the Oppos ition Leader.
Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, pursuant to the conversation of which you just had, and pursuant to Standing Order 18(4), I will defer the answering of this question.
QUESTION: FINTECH JOB CREATION IN BERMUDA [Answer deferred]
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: 1. Will the Honourable Premier please inform this Honourable House how many jobs have been created as a direct result of the forty-four (44) recently announced incorporated FinTech companies, the job titles and number of Bermudians employed?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerOkay. The Clerk: For number 1.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThe second question is to the Premier from the Member from constituency 10, MP Dunkley. Premier, again it is a written response. Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As per the conversation that I just had and pursuant to Standing Order 18(4), I shall defer the answer of …
The second question is to the Premier from the Member from constituency 10, MP Dunkley. Premier, again it is a written response. Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As per the conversation that I just had and pursuant to Standing Order 18(4), I shall defer the answer of this question.
QUESTION: GOVERNMENT TRAVEL EXPENSES [Answer deferred]
Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: 1. Will the Honourable Premier please provide to this Honourable House a complete list of any tri p paid out of the consolidated fund that has been taken by any Government Member of Parliament or Government Senator from July 18 th 2017 through November 23rd 2018 inclusive of purpose of trip, travel destination and all costs associated with the trip in i temised fashion?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. And the third question is actually to the Mini ster of National Security. Minister of National Security, your question is from the Member Sylvan Richards. Hon. Wayne Caines: The answer was provided, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThey were provided? Hon. Wayne Caines: Yes. QUESTION: NUMBER OF WORK PERMI TS A PPROVED SEPTEMBER, OCTOBER, NOVEMBER 2018 Mr. Sylvan D. Richards, Jr.: 1. Would the Honour able Minister please confirm for this Honourable House the number of work permits approved in the months of September, October and November …
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYou have your answers? Thank you. That is all that was required because there were no oral responses required. So that now moves us on to the Statement questions. That moves us on to questions on the Statements this morning. And again, we have Members who wish to as k …
You have your answers? Thank you. That is all that was required because there were no oral responses required. So that now moves us on to the Statement questions. That moves us on to questions on the Statements this morning. And again, we have Members who wish to as k questions in regard to the mor ning’s Statements. Premier, the first questions are to you. And the first one is from the Leader of the Opposition. And let me remind Members again that there is a 60 -minute period for these questions. 300 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly Leader of the Oppos ition, would you like to put your question to the Premier on his visits and trips to the UK and Europe?
QUESTION 1: THE 2018 JOINT MINISTERIAL COUNCIL AND RELATED MEETINGS IN THE UK AND EUROPE
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Good morning, and thank you, Mr. Speaker. On the back side of the first page, the Premier mentions the networking reception for Bermuda abroad. And certainly, I am familiar with those. But in the last sentence of the third paragraph on this page, the Premier mentions that this was a time to “engage directly . . . on issues they feel are crucial.” So, at this meeting, I was curious as to what were some of the common themes of issues that were crucial to those who attended that, basing that also in a following paragraph, where he mentions t hat he will “execute . . . plans to ensure that there is a place for them here when they return . . . .”
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member. Premier. Hon. E. David Burt: I thank the Opposition Leader for his question. And I think what is most crucial for pe rsons who are living overseas is whether or not there is a place for them at home when they are ready to r eturn. …
Thank you, Honourable Member. Premier. Hon. E. David Burt: I thank the Opposition Leader for his question. And I think what is most crucial for pe rsons who are living overseas is whether or not there is a place for them at home when they are ready to r eturn. And a place for them at home when they are ready to return, Mr. Speaker, involves a couple of things. Number one, it is the question of, without ques tion, a job and opportunities to work. But also what is important is a place to live. And the conversation of which I have had with a number of young people is that they do not wish to be living overseas independently for 10 years, and then return home to live in the same room of which they grew up and in their parents’ house. And that is something that is very clear, and that is something that we have understood to be an impediment to some people wanting to return home. And that is the r eason why, Mr. Speaker, i nside of our Throne Speech we said that we will move ahead with plans to construct affordable student onebedroom apartments in the City of Hamilton, to enable those young people who are overseas who wish to come back to Bermuda to get themselves a property ladder to come back and contribute to their country, to give them the opportunity to do so.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Supplementary or new question? Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Supplementary, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerSupplementar y. Continue. SUPPLEMENTARY Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Taking that into consider ation, further on down, I mentioned in a following par agraph it says “[when they have] completed their studies and skills training.” Did the Premier find that the studies and ski lls training that were going on with …
Supplementar y. Continue. SUPPLEMENTARY
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Taking that into consider ation, further on down, I mentioned in a following par agraph it says “[when they have] completed their studies and skills training.” Did the Premier find that the studies and ski lls training that were going on with those whom he met with were they in fields that are vibrant in Bermuda? Or were they in industries that we do not have in Bermuda?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Premier. Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As the Opposition Leader could imagine, there were a number of different students, mature and young, who were studying different things and who were engaged in different activities. But there were a number who were involved in getting things …
Thank you. Premier. Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As the Opposition Leader could imagine, there were a number of different students, mature and young, who were studying different things and who were engaged in different activities. But there were a number who were involved in getting things in qualif ication in education, in nursing, in social services —all things which are, without question, necessary and required here in Bermuda. A number of the students of whom I met with have already contacted my office, will be scheduling meetings with either the Department of Workforce D evelopment or [other] government departments to find out how they can participate in internship pr ogrammes, going forward, as the Government of Ber-muda wants to make sure that we can recruit suitably qualified Bermudians in these areas of par ticular interest, especially in the areas of education, social services and, of course, health care provision.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Further supplementary or question? Supplementary from the Opposition Whip. Honourable Member. SUPPLEMENTARY
Ms. Susan E. JacksonThank you, Mr. Speaker, and good morning. Yes. I am just curious. I remember a couple of weeks ago there was discussion about having interns and internships in some of our overseas offices. So, having had a reception with young Bermudians and Bermudians living overseas, what is the most recent …
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and good morning. Yes. I am just curious. I remember a couple of weeks ago there was discussion about having interns and internships in some of our overseas offices. So, having had a reception with young Bermudians and Bermudians living overseas, what is the most recent development on the building up of internship pr ogrammes, in particular the opening of the Brussels Office, which is on the third page of this Statement?
[Inaudible interjection]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYes, I was trying to ascertain the question.
Ms. Susan E. JacksonWhat is being done to pr ovide internships, which is a follow -up to a Statement Bermuda House of Assembly which you made earlier? What is being done for i nternships and building up an internship programme in the opening of the Brussels Office? Hon. E. David Burt: Mr. Speaker, …
What is being done to pr ovide internships, which is a follow -up to a Statement
Bermuda House of Assembly which you made earlier? What is being done for i nternships and building up an internship programme in the opening of the Brussels Office?
Hon. E. David Burt: Mr. Speaker, the Brussels Office has not yet been opened. While I was in Brussels, I did have a chance to meet with Ms. Kimberley Durrant, who runs the London operation, to view the space of which the proposal on the Brussels Office is supposed to be. Regarding the overall question of the inter nship programmes, which was announced in the Throne Speech . . . and I am very happy that Members opposite are referencing the Throne Speech and the plans which were laid out in the Throne Speech. Any future plans as to the implementation of those particular issues which were laid out in the Throne Speech will be shared with Honourable Members when they are complete.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Supplementary , or new question? Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: New question.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerNew question. It is your second question. Continue. QUESTION 2: THE 2018 JOINT MINISTERIAL COUNCIL AND RELATED MEETINGS IN THE UK AND EUROPE Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Yes, second question. On the last page, the Premier mentions that “Minister [Robin] Walker assured leaders that the UK is obligated under the …
New question. It is your second question. Continue.
QUESTION 2: THE 2018 JOINT MINISTERIAL COUNCIL AND RELATED MEETINGS IN THE UK AND EUROPE
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Yes, second question. On the last page, the Premier mentions that “Minister [Robin] Walker assured leaders that the UK is obligated under the Constitution to set the fram ework which works” —and I want to emphasise this — “for the [entire] UK family including the Overseas Ter-ritories . . . .” Has the Premier outlined to Mr. Walker, to London, what is important to Bermuda and what are our issues? What is important?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerPremier. Hon. E. David Burt: Could I ask the Opposition Leader to clarify the question? Hon. L. Craig Ca nnonier: Sure. Oh . . . Sorry.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerNo. Go ahead. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Certainly. If you go back over to the (they are not numbered, the pages). “With the ongoing uncertainty surrounding virtually every aspect of the Brexit debate, the impac t of the UK leaving the EU on the Overseas Territories will continue to be …
No. Go ahead. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Certainly. If you go back over to the (they are not numbered, the pages). “With the ongoing uncertainty surrounding virtually every aspect of the Brexit debate, the impac t of the UK leaving the EU on the Overseas Territories will continue to be monitored by this Government, and Bermuda made ready for any scenario.” So, I was asking the question, Have we made it very clear, specifically? For instance, one of those that we have made very clear, and you guys have made it clear, is that we have an issue with passports. But what were some of those other very key issues that Bermuda is having, understanding that we have got these challenges with Brexit and the likes?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerPremier. Hon. E. David Burt: I thank the Opposition Leader for his question. I think that the Bermuda Government has put forward its case very clearly. And, as the O pposition Leader will know, we have the option to do that every Wednesday when we go to Government House. So, …
Premier. Hon. E. David Burt: I thank the Opposition Leader for his question. I think that the Bermuda Government has put forward its case very clearly. And, as the O pposition Leader will know, we have the option to do that every Wednesday when we go to Government House. So, the interactions and activities which take place over at the Joint Ministerial Council [JMC] is an opportunity for Overseas Territories, in general, to go ahead and to put forward their issues. From the situation, however, of Brexit, the issue of Brexit, really, Mr. Speaker, is a question of certainty. And it is unfortunate that there is so much uncertainty in the United Kingdom right now. And no one actually knows what will come of it. So, the hope and thought was that this Joint Ministerial Council, just like the pre- Joint Ministerial Council, which took place earlier, would be able to provide us a measure of cer-tainty so that we can actually begin to plan effectively. But what we saw are Ministers who were scheduled to be at the JMC being called out, the meeting with the Prime Minister had to be postponed because there was a series of votes that took place in the UK Parliament. So, it was a very tumultuous time. What I would say is that, from the perspective of the Government of Bermuda, what is important is certainty. We want to make sure that our students who are living overseas or Bermudians who are living overseas, whether they be in Europe or in the United Kingdom, have the opportunity to continue that. We want to make sure that our access to home fees, which these people have in the United Kingdom, does continue. There was a question as to whether or not that may or may not happen. That has now been clar ified. And so, from those perspectives, we relay these particular items. But, the Bermuda Government, as an overall perspective, does not have that many concerns with Brexit, because unlike other Overseas Territories, whether they be those that are inside of the EU themselves, like Gibraltar, or others that act ually receive dir ect assistance from the European U nion such as we do not receive, it is not as big of a deal for Bermuda as it is for a lot of the other Overseas Territories, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Premier. New question or supplementary? 302 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly Hon. L. Craig Can nonier: New question.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThird question, your last question. Yes. QUESTION 3: THE 2018 JOINT MINISTERIAL COUNCIL AND RELATED MEETINGS IN THE UK AND EUROPE Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Yes, yes. The following paragraph mentions the issue with the passport office. And I was just curious as to–– we know how overseas offices can …
Third question, your last question. Yes.
QUESTION 3: THE 2018 JOINT MINISTERIAL COUNCIL AND RELATED MEETINGS IN THE UK AND EUROPE
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Yes, yes. The following paragraph mentions the issue with the passport office. And I was just curious as to–– we know how overseas offices can be a bit lethargic in getting to things, especially when it comes to Overseas Territories and their challenges. I was curious with the Bermuda passport i ssue here. Was there a timeline given by the office as to when they would resolve this particular issue? Or is it just still open -ended?
Hon. E. David Burt: No timeline was given.
The SpeakerThe Speaker(Deputy? Sergeant? Oh, okay. All right. Did not want you to walk the wrong way.) Supplementary?
Ms. Susan E. JacksonMy question is, Can you please tell us what some of the proposed solutions are, as you move closer to resolving the problem of Bermuda passports?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerPremier. Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you very much. I am happy to outline for the Honourable Member what some of the proposed solutions are. The issue is that, unfortunately, and I am not trying to throw stones here, Mr. Speaker. But it is a fact that this was a …
Premier.
Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you very much. I am happy to outline for the Honourable Member what some of the proposed solutions are. The issue is that, unfortunately, and I am not trying to throw stones here, Mr. Speaker. But it is a fact that this was a matter that we inherited. And if the former Government had had their eyes on the ball, we probably would not have gotten to this point where we find ourselves, trying to clear up an issue that there was previous consultation for —
[Desk thumping]
Hon. E. David Burt: —that there was —
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Point of order, Mr. Speaker.
Hon. E. David Burt: —previous consultation for —
The SpeakerThe SpeakerPoint of order. POINT OF ORDER [Misleading] Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: The Honourable Member is misleading the House. The issue with respect to overseas passports was definitely something for which we had the eye on the ball. It was an issue in which it was only in 2016 that …
Point of order. POINT OF ORDER [Misleading] Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: The Honourable Member is misleading the House. The issue with respect to overseas passports was definitely something for which we had the eye on the ball. It was an issue in which it was only in 2016 that the UK assumed the processing of the passports. It was towards the end of that year that we were made aware of some of the practical challenges. And immediately , we commenced dealing with the passport i ssue through the HMPO [Her Majesty’s Passport O ffice]. So, for the Honourable Member to say that . . . yes, they inherited it. But it was something that was newly developing. And we were never made aware of the extent and the gravity of the challenge during the short period of time between the takingover of the passport issue by the UK HMPO and the change in the government.
[Inaudible interjections]
Hon. E. David Burt: And, Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the Honourable Member’s intervention, her point of order. I do not accept it, as the United Kingdom Government gave consultation to the former Gover nment i n advance of the decision, and those particular items were not followed up on to identify the challen ges of which would arise.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberAha! Aha! Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Point of order, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerWe will take a short point of order. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Yes. POINT OF ORDER [Misleading] Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: I think it is i mportant to understand. The Honourable Member perhaps, may be inadvertently, misleading the House. The issue with respect to the challenges that were …
We will take a short point of order. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Yes.
POINT OF ORDER [Misleading] Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: I think it is i mportant to understand. The Honourable Member perhaps, may be inadvertently, misleading the House. The issue with respect to the challenges that were created came after the fact by virtue of the new passports having changed the BMU designation on the passport to GBR. And that is where the issue came. And it was well after the fact that we actually were made aware that this was creating a challenge.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerContinue on, Premier. Hon. E. David Burt: Mr. Speaker, I will say it one more time. That consultation came from the United Bermuda House of Assembly Kingdom Government regarding this particular issue. And if the former Government had their eye on the ball regarding the types of things that would …
Continue on, Premier. Hon. E. David Burt: Mr. Speaker, I will say it one more time. That consultation came from the United
Bermuda House of Assembly Kingdom Government regarding this particular issue. And if the former Government had their eye on the ball regarding the types of things that would happen and the changes to the passports which may have existed, this problem may have been able to be ad-dressed previously, as opposed to after the fact. Because what we are dealing with, as the Honour able Member has said, is a simple matter of coding. However, this was not done. So, when the problems occurred, which should have been identified before they started happening if people were paying attention at that time . . . we now find ourselves in an issue that we have inherited. Regarding this particular issue, what was done is investigation into what IT solutions are there. And specifically, the challenge of this numbering, this letter, this coding issue is one that the Minister who has responsibilit y for the Cabinet Office, has intent, has lots of detail with. I am happy to defer to him if Members would like to have additional questions. Or if they wish to ask additional questions —
The SpeakerThe SpeakerNo. They will have an opportunity to put further questi ons at a later time. Hon. E. David Burt: Absolutely. But I think here is the thing that is most i mportant. What is most important is that on this partic ular coding issue, we have sought to make sure …
No. They will have an opportunity to put further questi ons at a later time.
Hon. E. David Burt: Absolutely. But I think here is the thing that is most i mportant. What is most important is that on this partic ular coding issue, we have sought to make sure that the code can be changed. And, last year, there was a discussion that said, from Her Majesty’s Passport O ffice, that, Yes, we will try to do it. What happened was, this year we got the same—and I will be very blunt inside this House— we got the same techno - speak from the same technical officers. I, in the J oint Ministerial Council, Mr. Speaker, said that this was not good enough. And I challenged the Minister with r esponsibility for the Overseas Territories to do som ething about the issue. This is not something that is the fault of any particular Bermudian. The fact is that, despite the fact that people were not paying attention to what should have happened at that point in time, we find ourselves in the position where we have the ability to enter the United States without requesting a visa waiver, but we cannot apply for an ESTA [ Electronic System for Travel Author ization] because we are not eligible for applying for one. It is a situation which has us in a l egal no- man’s -land, and it cannot be allowed to conti nue! And what I said was I cannot accept, wher e we have people who are being stuck, our young peo-ple, overseas from getting back, a technocratic answer to say that we will continue to examine the issue. The answer was no. The Minister heard me very forcefully. The Minister said that he will make sure that he delivers on the promise. But in addition to that, he will use his additional influence of which he has with the international organisations, such as ICAO [Interna-tional Civil Aviation Organization], who basically state that the coding of passports to make sure that a res olution of this particular issue can be found, Mr. Speaker. I take it very seriously because I, like many others, are the ones who get the calls where people are stuck overseas, cannot get back, our young pe ople and all the rest. And I do not accept that, for us who no longer have the ability to print our passports, to be stuck in a position where the rights of which we have negotiated ourselves cannot be exercised be-cause the United Kingdom has decided to do som ething which is not i n our national interest.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Supplementary,
Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerSupplementary? We will take your supplementary. SUPPLEMENTARY Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Yes. Mr. Speaker, the supplementary question that I have is, with the Minister indicating that somebody took their eye off the ball , in his response, would the Minister agree—
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberIt was you! [Inaudible interjections]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMembers! Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Will the Minister agree that the communication with the Immigration Department and the technical officers who were ma king those interchanges with the HMPO, that the only item that was identified as being different was the fact that, for security reasons, the new passports …
Members!
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Will the Minister agree that the communication with the Immigration Department and the technical officers who were ma king those interchanges with the HMPO, that the only item that was identified as being different was the fact that, for security reasons, the new passports would have biometric capabilities? And secondly, the only other thing that was different was that the passports would be printed overseas? And would the Minister answer the question as to whether he expec ted us to have a crystal ball with respect to the coding issue, the BMU versus the GBR?
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberYes. [Inaudible interjections]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerPremier. Hon. E. David Burt: Mr. Speaker, what I would expect from any Government is for them to be thorough, to examine the issue and to make sure that they have a full understanding of the changes. So, when they are asked about what may happen, they can at least …
Premier. Hon. E. David Burt: Mr. Speaker, what I would expect from any Government is for them to be thorough, to examine the issue and to make sure that they have a full understanding of the changes. So, when they are asked about what may happen, they can at least 304 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly answer the question. They did not do that. We have this particular situation. We are working t o resolve it. And it is my hope, after the political . . . the commi tments that were given at the ministerial level, that this issue will finally be addressed.
Ms. Susan E. JacksonYes, Mr. Speaker. It is not even a supplementary. I would just like to bring —
The SpeakerThe SpeakerWell, if it is not a supplementary and it is not a question, I cannot take it at this time. It has got to be one or the other. You are only entitled to a supplementary, actually, because you have not put a question.
Ms. Susan E. JacksonMy question was not a nswered, Mr. Speaker. My supplementary was not a nswered the first time, which was, What are the pr oposed solutions to this problem? Closer to the resol ving the problems of Bermuda passports, w hat are the proposed solutions? This was the first supplementary question …
The SpeakerThe SpeakerPremier, would you like to restate what you said earlier? Hon. E. David Burt: I will state it one more time. The proposed solutio n is to do what the former Gover nment should have had done the first time— make sure the coding in the passports for Bermudians is …
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Supplementary? SUPPLEMENTARY
Ms. Susan E. JacksonYes. So, I would like to know how the Government proposes to do that, changing the codes, and what is going to be the cost?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerPremier. Hon. E. David Burt: Mr. Speaker, the cost has not yet been determined. What I can state for the record is that the Minister for the Overseas Territories has gi ven his commitment to examine. The cost may be as little as $1,000. We do not yet know. But …
Premier. Hon. E. David Burt: Mr. Speaker, the cost has not yet been determined. What I can state for the record is that the Minister for the Overseas Territories has gi ven his commitment to examine. The cost may be as little as $1,000. We do not yet know. But now, because of the work of this Government, we actually have firm political commitment at the ministerial level, which was lacking before.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Supplementary. I had a point of order before. This is a supplementary.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYou had two points of order. You did do one supplementary. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: I had one supplementary.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerOkay. One more supplementary, yes. The Clerk: There is one supplementary. SUPPLEMENTARY Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Yes. My second supplementary, based on the Premier’s response, is, Is he aware of the fact that the PS [Permanent Secretary] for Immigration, as well as the Chief Immigration Officer, have actually expended …
The SpeakerThe SpeakerPremier. Hon. E. David Burt: Again, Mr. Speaker, the Honourable Member is making the point. Prevention is better than cure. If you dealt with the issue before it ha ppened, then you would not be having to follow up after the change has already been implemented.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Premier. Supplementary? Supplementary, yes. SUPPLEMENTARY Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. the Honourable Premier said Bermuda does not have many concerns with Brexit. The concerns that have previously been stated to the UK — employment, travel, residence and business —are they still on the table?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerPremier. Hon. E. David Burt: It is difficult to understand what the concerns may be, as we do not understand what may happen in the case of Brexit. What will happen with British citizens and the persons who are holding the passports, as I indicated in my Statement, is that …
Premier. Hon. E. David Burt: It is difficult to understand what the concerns may be, as we do not understand what may happen in the case of Brexit. What will happen with British citizens and the persons who are holding the passports, as I indicated in my Statement, is that they will be treated the exact same way. If there is an issue of a no- deal, then there is a question as to, number one, what will be rights of British citizens who are living overseas? And number two, what will be the rights of British Overseas Territory citizen [BOTC] passport holders overseas? Until we understand pr ecisely what Brexit will be, then we do not know. Under the draft withdrawal agreement, most of our concerns will be addressed. Persons who are living overseas currently in the European Union, who are holders of British citizen passports or BOTC pas sports, will be able to remain and to stay. However, if
Bermuda House of Assembly there is a no- deal scenario where ther e is no actual agreement, and the United Kingdom crashes out, then there may be challenges there. As I indicated inside of my Statement, the Bri tish Government is making contingency plans should that happen, and it remains to be seen. And I think we will have more clarity after next week.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. No more supplementaries? Premier, you have additional questions from other Members who would like to put questions direc tly. And the next is from the Member from constitue ncy 23. Honourable Member, do you still have a question you would like to put? Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: …
Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerGo ahead. QUESTION 1: THE 2018 JOINT MINISTERIAL COUNCIL AND RELATED MEETINGS IN THE UK AND EUROPE Hon. Patricia J. G ordon -Pamplin: Mr. Speaker, based on the paragraph (the pages are unnumbered, but I will flip it) on page 3, the Premier indicated that he met with the Britain …
Go ahead.
QUESTION 1: THE 2018 JOINT MINISTERIAL COUNCIL AND RELATED MEETINGS IN THE UK AND EUROPE
Hon. Patricia J. G ordon -Pamplin: Mr. Speaker, based on the paragraph (the pages are unnumbered, but I will flip it) on page 3, the Premier indicated that he met with the Britain –Bermuda All Party Parliamentary Group, with its Chair, and they discussed, obv iously, the challenges that we are having. And he talked about making friends before we need them. The passport issue . . . I wonder if the Premier can advise whether the discussions with the Britain – Bermuda All Party Parliamentary Group revealed to him that similar discus sions were had with the Public Accounts Committee in January of 2018 in front of that same group, highlighting in detail the very same problems that they committed to address?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMr. Premier. Hon. E. David Burt: I am a little bit lost with the question. I will just say that, at the lunch with the All Party Parliamentary Group, there was no discussion of passports.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. New question or supplementary? Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: I have a suppl ementary.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerOkay . SUPPLEMENTARY Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Because, follo wing that discussion, as the Premier did not have the crystal ball to see what had been done, following that discussion, will the Premier admit, or will the Premier accept that the results from those discussions were held with the …
Okay .
SUPPLEMENTARY Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Because, follo wing that discussion, as the Premier did not have the crystal ball to see what had been done, following that discussion, will the Premier admit, or will the Premier accept that the results from those discussions were held with the then Minister responsible for Immigration to advise that we had had the meeting with the Bri tain–Bermuda All Party Parliamentary Group, and that they were going to be looking into a resolution to the passport issue? And that conversation would have been had in March of 2018.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMr. Premier. Hon. E. David Burt: I am trying to understand if the Member is asking me to confirm that a meeting took place in March 2018. I am really not trying . . . I am not fol lowing. And I am also a little bit confused as to …
Mr. Premier.
Hon. E. David Burt: I am trying to understand if the Member is asking me to confirm that a meeting took place in March 2018. I am really not trying . . . I am not fol lowing. And I am also a little bit confused as to how we are talking about things in 2018, when we are the Government and . . . I am not following, Mr. Speaker. I am sorry.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerI will give you a brief moment to clarify. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you. Just to try to clarify, just to try and clarify. In January of 2018, the Public Accounts Committee [PAC], in its entirety, attended the . . . the Public Accounts Committee, in January of …
I will give you a brief moment to clarify.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you. Just to try to clarify, just to try and clarify. In January of 2018, the Public Accounts Committee [PAC], in its entirety, attended the . . . the Public Accounts Committee, in January of 2018, under the PLP administration, with I as the Chair, a ttended, in its entirety, for some training sessions in the UK. As part of that training session, we had a meeting, a luncheon, in fact —probably the same menu that you had —with the Britain –Bermuda All Party Parliamentary Group, at which time the i ssue of passports and the challenges relating thereto were discussed.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerSo, now that I am following you, your question to the Premier is, when he met with that same body of people, did they indicate that they had spoken to your body [of people] prior? Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: No. He already indicated, he already said that he had …
So, now that I am following you, your question to the Premier is, when he met with that same body of people, did they indicate that they had spoken to your body [of people] prior?
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: No. He already indicated, he already said that he had not. But my question further is, my supplementary question is –– the then Minister for Immigration, who has now moved to a different area, had conversations with us, with me, subsequent to that meeting, and that nothing further appears to have been in respect of a resolution to the passport issue. Is the Premier aware that there was a commitment to look into the issue, that we had Parliamentary Statements concerning the issue, and nearly a year later there still is no resolution?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYou have stretched your point. I am going to try and break it down as best I can. 306 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly Your first point was the PAC was in England in January. We have got that. During that time, they met with …
You have stretched your point. I am going to try and break it down as best I can. 306 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly Your first point was the PAC was in England in January. We have got that. During that time, they met with the same body that the Premier met with. We have got that. Now, your question is, simply, Is the Premier aware that commitments that were made durin g that meeting are still yet to be fulfilled?
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: That’s correct.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerOkay. Hon. E. David Burt: Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerWell, a long road to get to a short pike. But, Premier, can you follow that? Hon. E. David Burt: Mr. Speaker, I will take a very long road, as well. Because the long road is very si mple to understand. So, say, for instance, Mr. Speaker, if you were …
Well, a long road to get to a short pike. But, Premier, can you follow that? Hon. E. David Burt: Mr. Speaker, I will take a very long road, as well. Because the long road is very si mple to understand. So, say, for instance, Mr. Speaker, if you were building a house and you built a house, and you realised that your house may be built in the wrong place. You have, if you catch it when the plans and the architects and the layout is being done, you can correct that. If you find it after the fact that the house is already built, then it takes a little bit longer to resolve that particular issue, Mr. Speaker. We found this. This problem was already fully baked into it. And we are doing the best that we can to resolve it. Am I pleased that it has not been resolved at this point in time? No. Was my displeasure made very public at a meeting of the Joint Ministerial Council? Yes. Have I secured, finally, ministerial commi tment to resolving this particular issue? Yes! Which was not held before. The Minister of the Overseas Territories has given his commitment to me, personally, that he will do his whate ver-is-necessary in order to get this particular matter resolved, in addition to using his infl uence with international organisations. And we look forward to reporting progress and updating on that particular matter. Mr. Speaker, the Government of the Uni ted Kingdom is a large and unwieldy instrument. We un-derstand that. And that is the reason why it is i mportant to make sure that these issues are caught be-fore they happen as opposed to after the fact, when our people are suffering, as they are now.
The S peaker: Thank you. Any further supplementary? Any further question? Now, is this a new question? Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: This is a new question.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerSo, you have got your second question, yes? QUESTION 2: THE 2018 JOINT MINISTERIAL COUNCIL AND RELATED MEETINGS IN THE UK AND EUROPE Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Yes. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My second question to the Minister is, again, in reference to his Statement, on page 3 of …
So, you have got your second question, yes?
QUESTION 2: THE 2018 JOINT MINISTERIAL COUNCIL AND RELATED MEETINGS IN THE UK AND EUROPE Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Yes. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My second question to the Minister is, again, in reference to his Statement, on page 3 of his Stat ement, in which he indicates that, essentiall y, they are trying to make the friends before we need them as he was renewing Bermuda friendships. The question that I have is, Is there any re ason why . . . or, let me rephrase it. Are there no issues to discuss with other Overseas Territories leaders which would enhance the friendship that we have with either the UK or with other Overseas Territories lea ders?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerPremier. Hon. E. David Burt: Mr. Speaker, we have numerous discussions with many Overseas Territories leaders, and they take place a ll the time.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Supplementary or new question? Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Supplementary.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYes. SUPPLEMENTAR IES Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: If the Premier, having said that he has those, could he explain to us why the Minister who accompanied him has been r eported to have been saying that he refused to attend the FCO [Foreign and Commonwealth Office] meeting? Because we …
Yes.
SUPPLEMENTAR IES
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: If the Premier, having said that he has those, could he explain to us why the Minister who accompanied him has been r eported to have been saying that he refused to attend the FCO [Foreign and Commonwealth Office] meeting? Because we do not answer to the F CO, so, they did not bother to appear before them.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThe question is to the Premier. Hon. E. David Burt: I believe that question rates hardly seven words, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThe issue here is whether or not the question in its content falls within the content of the Statement that was put. And I do not believe, in the Statement, that the reference to the comment made by the Minister that you are referencing was entailed in the context of …
The issue here is whether or not the question in its content falls within the content of the Statement that was put. And I do not believe, in the Statement, that the reference to the comment made by the Minister that you are referencing was entailed in the context of the Statement. But, Mr. Premier , I am going to allow you some lenience if you wish, or not.
[Crosstalk]
Bermuda House of Assembly Hon. E. David Burt: Mr. Speaker, I am happy to answer. I am happy to answer the question. But I find it laughable that the Honourable Member will . . . well, I shouldn’t find it laughable. I would just find it the nor-mal case that she would refer to something which was written inside of the Royal Gazette, which was not actually correct. It was not the Foreign and Common-wealth Office. The Joint Ministerial Council meeting is held by the Foreign and Com monwealth Office, which we attended. It was the House of Commons Foreign Affairs Select Committee. So, a bunch of people who were not in Government, backbenchers, who wanted to have a meeting and talk and discuss. We do not answer to the House of Commons Foreign Affairs Select Committee. It was a voluntary invitation. We were not the only Overseas Territories leaders to decline the invitation. And we felt that our efforts could be used better in other instances. And so, for that, our time was better spent doing other things and engaging in other meetings. That was something they wanted to have. These are backbenchers who felt that they wanted to have a committee meeting, and invited Overseas Territories leaders. We do not answer to them, Mr. Speaker. So, we were not there.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Premier. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Supplementary.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerSupplementary. Your second suppl ementary on this one. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Yes.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYes? [Inaudible interjections] Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: There was a question. And now my supplementary; it does not matter. My supplementary question is, Does the Mi nister not agree, does the Premier not agree that buil ding friendships would entail interacting with others in a setting in which they …
Yes?
[Inaudible interjections]
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: There was a question. And now my supplementary; it does not matter. My supplementary question is, Does the Mi nister not agree, does the Premier not agree that buil ding friendships would entail interacting with others in a setting in which they are together, and therefore, there may have been better economies of presence and use of time?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerPremier. Hon. E. David Burt: Mr. Speaker, I will be happy to share with the Honourable Member a video from the Foreign Aff airs Select Committee. And she can find out whether or not she feels that this was a collabor ative environment. [Laughter] The Speaker: Thank you. Further question? …
Premier. Hon. E. David Burt: Mr. Speaker, I will be happy to share with the Honourable Member a video from the Foreign Aff airs Select Committee. And she can find out whether or not she feels that this was a collabor ative environment.
[Laughter] The Speaker: Thank you. Further question? No further question. Premier, you have an additional Member who would like to put a question to you on the Statement. And that is the Member from constituency 11. Member, would you still wish to put your question?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerGood morning. QUESTION 1: THE 2018 JOINT MINISTERIAL COUNCIL AND RELATED MEETINGS IN THE UK AND EUROPE
Mr. Christopher FamousHonourable Premier, would you elaborate for us and for the country on the whole about the reception, specifically for the Berm udian students overseas, the one in London and, more importantly, the one in Nottingham? Thank you.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerPremier. Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you. I thank the Honour able Member for his question. These particular meetings, I think, are partic ularly important. And, as I indicated inside of my Statement, Mr. Speaker, I made a commitment last year that there are a larger number of Bermudians who …
Premier.
Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you. I thank the Honour able Member for his question. These particular meetings, I think, are partic ularly important. And, as I indicated inside of my Statement, Mr. Speaker, I made a commitment last year that there are a larger number of Bermudians who are living inside, and it may be difficult for those with families to travel to London for the singular event of which we had. The commitment that I had was to make sure that we had an event that was outside of London that would have enabled more persons to attend and to participate. And so, in following with that commitment and keeping that promise, we were pl eased to hold this reception in the further north. It was on a Sunday, the London Office, we travelled. And it was a very enlightening event. And we had the ability to interact with those students. There is a large number of students, actually, we did not realise, or I did not realise befor ehand, who are actually attending the various schools in Nottingham. But there were a large number of students. We were able to engage and to listen to them, find out about their studies, find out about the things of whi ch they were concerned about, find out and answer and deal with questions insofar as residency, dealing with questions insofar as the different things of which we need. I mean, things were so simple, as there was a student who was over there studying, who did not actually realise that she was eligible for home fees. And she had been in the United Kingdom for three years, paying outside rates as opposed to the rates of which 308 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly she was eligible for. So, there were a number of things that came out of those meeti ngs, Mr. Speaker. And, as I indicated inside of my Statement, I impressed on the UK, the London Office, to be even more visible inside their interactions. One of the challenges of which they have had is that, because of the new regulations which have come into place inside the United Kingdom, which are data protection regul ations, GDPR, they are actually unable to use the email list of which they used previously to announce these receptions. So, we are working through those particular processes to make sure that the London Office can have more innovative ways, or newer ways, of getting around that to make sure that they communicate with students overseas. So, we had to invent a different way of reaching students. And we were successful, actually, in getting a good many people to the reception in Nottingham. I think we actually got 40 students. But, as I said, Mr. Speaker, the question that was asked earlier, a lot of them want to know, What is going to be here for them when they decide to return? And, as I said, we have placed a number of them in touch with various agencies and government depar tments here, speaking about internships and pr ogrammes that can happen here on Island, not only during the summer, but also during periods. There are even some students who were coming home for the Christmas period who already have placements inside of government departments to assist and to lend their skills inside of those. So, for that, Mr. Speaker, I think that it was incredibly worthwhile. We were happy to have t hat event, and I was happy also that other Honourable Members in this Chamber attended with me, such as the Honourable Member for constituency 8, who was at the London reception, as he was in the United Kingdom for the Business Development Agency event.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Premier. Does any other Honourable Member have a question or supplementary? Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Supplementary. I have a supplementary. [Inaudible interjection] Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: No, this is my first supplementary on this question.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThis is your first one on this one, yes. Go ahead. SUPPLEMENTAR IES Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Premier indicated that he did not know some basic information in terms of how many people or who we have, in students, in the var …
This is your first one on this one, yes. Go ahead.
SUPPLEMENTAR IES
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Premier indicated that he did not know some basic information in terms of how many people or who we have, in students, in the var ious areas —not the various areas, but the northern area, the Nottingham area. The question is, Is there a register that is maintained by the London Office on which we could have our residents who are abroad registered to let the Government know that people are wherever they are and hence, give them a better o pportunity to be able to interact?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Premier. Hon. E. David Burt: There is no forced register of Bermudians living overseas. Persons who can move to the United Kingdom and — [Inaudible interjections]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThere is no register of persons living overseas in that regard. Hon. E. David Burt: There is no requirement for Bermudians who move to the United Kingdom to register with the London Office. Those persons who move to the United Kingdom and who wish to let the London Office know …
There is no register of persons living overseas in that regard. Hon. E. David Burt: There is no requirement for Bermudians who move to the United Kingdom to register with the London Office. Those persons who move to the United Kingdom and who wish to let the London Office know that they are there are maintained in a register so that the London Office knows the people who have voluntarily done so. But, again, Mr. Speaker, this is a voluntary thing. There is no registration process which is mandatory and/or compulsory for students who are moving overseas. We encourage persons who are moving overseas to let the London Office know. There will be additional communication that will be sent out in those particular regards. We are talking about additional communication which can be done here to ensure the persons who are looking to further their studies or their skills training in the United Kingdom, or the things of which they should be aware of, and to encourage them to get in touch with the London Office. But a lot of times, the London Office is contacted only when there is a problem, which is classic when you have a consular office.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Second supplementary? Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Second suppl ementary. I wonder if the Premier would consider ma king an overt effort to encourage— it is not mandatory, but to encourage Bermudians to register as opposed to waiting until t here is an issue. Because I think it …
Thank you. Second supplementary? Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Second suppl ementary. I wonder if the Premier would consider ma king an overt effort to encourage— it is not mandatory, but to encourage Bermudians to register as opposed to waiting until t here is an issue. Because I think it would be wonderful, if he is leaving here to go to have an event, to at least have some basic information as to the population with which he is dealing.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerPremier. Bermuda House of Assembly Hon. E. David Burt: Yes.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. New question or supplementary? Because you are the one who opened up this series of questions. Do you have a second question or a suppl ementary?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerSupplementary? Go ahead. SUPPLEMENTARY
Mr. Christopher FamousIn your Statement earlier, Premier, you spoke about having (how can I say?) the first of many in the northern parts of London [sic] . What would you say . . . Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Northern England.
Mr. Christopher FamousWell, sorry. Northern En gland. Where would the next set of events be held?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerPremier. Hon. E. David Burt: I thank the Honourable Member for his question. At this time, this has not yet been determined. But we have said that we are going to host them outside of the London area. So, we will be having the annual London r eception, of which …
Premier. Hon. E. David Burt: I thank the Honourable Member for his question. At this time, this has not yet been determined. But we have said that we are going to host them outside of the London area. So, we will be having the annual London r eception, of which we have around the BDA events that will take place next year, which is timed to coincide with the Joint Ministerial Council, and other receptions which would be taking place. And we will find another location, maybe even further north than this one was, to make sure that we host Bermudians who are living and studying overseas.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberManchester.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Supplementary? Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: I heard the Honourable Member say Manchester . Yes, Mr. Speaker, suppl ementary.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYes. SUPPLEMENTARY Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: To the Honourable Premier, how many individuals came to each reception?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerPremier? Hon. E. David Burt: I do not have those numbers, particularly, off the top of my head. And I do not wish to guess too much. So, I will ask the London Office to return [the numbers]. I think we had about 40 in Nottingham, and I want to …
Premier? Hon. E. David Burt: I do not have those numbers, particularly, off the top of my head. And I do not wish to guess too much. So, I will ask the London Office to return [the numbers]. I think we had about 40 in Nottingham, and I want to say maybe 100– 120 in London. But I will get official numbers, and I am happy to su pply them.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. No further questions? That actually brings us to a close of the questions for the Premier. The next Statement is from the Deputy Premier. Deputy Premier, you have t wo Members who have indicated that they have questions for you. The first Member is the Member from constituency …
Thank you. No further questions? That actually brings us to a close of the questions for the Premier. The next Statement is from the Deputy Premier. Deputy Premier, you have t wo Members who have indicated that they have questions for you. The first Member is the Member from constituency 23. Would you like to put your question, Member?
QUESTION 1: INVESTIGATING COMPLAINTS OF PRICE GOUGING Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Yes. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I wonder, with respect to the complaints on price gouging, the Minister indicated that stores are giving the excuse that the sugar tax has caused prices to go up. I wonder if the Minister either directly or through the Consumer Affairs or through the Ministry of Health, would perhaps just to undertake an educ ation process as a reminder as to which items have been subjected to the sugar tax so that, if a consumer goes into a store, they at least have some backup, just as a reminder.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerDeputy Premier. Hon. Walter H. Roban: Yes.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerSupplementary or new question? Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: A supplementary.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerOkay. SUPPLEMENTARY Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: I wonder if the Minister could give us some indication as to when he might be willing to undertake such an education initi ative, because especially coming up to the Christmas season, we are going to have lots of people perhaps in that …
The SpeakerThe SpeakerDeputy. Hon. Walter H. Roban: Mr. Speaker, I will consult with my colleague in the Ministry of Health on this, because they are the primary managers of the matters 310 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly around the sugar tax. As you know, it was a …
Deputy. Hon. Walter H. Roban: Mr. Speaker, I will consult with my colleague in the Ministry of Health on this, because they are the primary managers of the matters 310 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly around the sugar tax. As you know, it was a Customs Bill. It was not a Consumer Affairs matter. But I will consult with the Health Ministry on how we can perhaps work together to provide add itional public education.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. No further questions. No supplementary. Deputy, you have an addi tional Member who would like to put a question, and that is the Member from constituency 10. Would you like to put your question now? QUESTION 1: INVESTIGATING COMPLAINTS OF PRICE GOUGING Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Thank you, …
Thank you. No further questions. No supplementary. Deputy, you have an addi tional Member who would like to put a question, and that is the Member from constituency 10. Would you like to put your question now?
QUESTION 1: INVESTIGATING COMPLAINTS OF PRICE GOUGING Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, i n regard to the Statement, a simple yes -or-no answer, Did the public servants who investigated the complaints of price gouging— did they find them, yes, or did they not find them, no?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerDeputy. Hon. Walter H. Roban: We received reports of price gouging. And my Statement outlined what we will be continuing to observe and investigate. At this point, I cannot confirm whether we found actual evidence of gouging. But we will continue to investigate when they are brought to our attention.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Supplementary or new question? Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Supplementary, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerSupplementary, yes. SUPPLEMENTAR IES Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: So, in regard to those specific complaints, are the investigations ongoing?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerDeputy. Hon. Walter H. Roban: Yes.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Second supplementary or new question? Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Second supplementary.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerGo ahead. Continue. Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: So, in regard to those o ngoing investigations, what is the avenue of investigation? What still needs to be looked at?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Deputy [Premier] . Hon. Walter H. Roban: I cannot get into the details of exactly what. That will be a matter for the technical officers. But we will respond appropriately to each matter which is brought to our attention. And there was some detail as to what we …
Thank you. Deputy [Premier] .
Hon. Walter H. Roban: I cannot get into the details of exactly what. That will be a matter for the technical officers. But we will respond appropriately to each matter which is brought to our attention. And there was some detail as to what we observed, certainly around the activity around certain staples. And we will certainly, to those products that have risen to the concern of the public, we will focus on those, such as ex-orbitant price. Like I said, I was sent pictures of certain local vegetables with, like a Paw Paw that was $14, things like that, obviously not imported, obviously from somebody’s garden, which was bei ng sold by a local retailer. As I said, that appears to be exorbitant. So, we will look at it when we have evidence of exactly ––certain products that appear to be the subject of perhaps some manipulation in prices. We will look at them.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Supplementary? No more supplementaries. This is a second question for you now. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: I have a suppl ementary on that.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYou have a supplementary? Okay. We will take your supplementary. SUPPLEMENTARY Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Yes. Thank you. In the Minister’s response, he indicated that he relies on technical officers. Is the Minister sugges ting that reliance on technical officers is only appropr iate under his administration, that it …
The SpeakerThe SpeakerI really think that question falls out of line of this stream right now. I would not call on the Minister to respond to that. Would you like to put your question? QUESTION 2: INVESTIGATING COMPLAINTS OF PRICE G OUGING Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Yes. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. …
I really think that question falls out of line of this stream right now. I would not call on the Minister to respond to that. Would you like to put your question?
QUESTION 2: INVESTIGATING COMPLAINTS OF PRICE G OUGING Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Yes. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Honourable Minister comes with a Statement which talks about investigating price gouging, but he is unable to say what did and did not happen. In the specific comment regarding the Paw Paws, what are the next steps to investigating whet her a $14 Paw Paw is a right price for it or not a right price? What are the next steps? What is to be taking place? Because next week, we will forget about it.
Bermuda House of Assembly The Speaker: Deputy [Premi er].
Hon. Walter H. Roban: Mr. Speaker, the job of investigating is done by the Department of Consumer A ffairs. They will pursue any actual cases that are brought to their attention. And they will deal with them as per the clause that I outlined in the Act. That is the process that they will take. And they will bring an ything that is brought to my attention in my role as the Minister, and I will act appropriately.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerSupplementary? Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Last question.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerLast question. Go ahead. QUESTION 3: INVESTIGATING COMPLAINTS OF PRICE GOUGING Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In the Statement, the Honourable Minister refers to sugar tax items. So, in the investigation, did the public servants find out that the rise in prices for the sugar tax was …
Last question. Go ahead.
QUESTION 3: INVESTIGATING COMPLAINTS OF PRICE GOUGING
Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In the Statement, the Honourable Minister refers to sugar tax items. So, in the investigation, did the public servants find out that the rise in prices for the sugar tax was comparable with the increase in duty that the Government had imposed?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerDeputy [Premier] . Hon. Walter H. Roban: [I am] not clear what the Honourable Member is asking. I am not responsible for any of the details around the sugar tax. My department was responding to queries by the public, who believe that prices were being manipulated, and the rationale was …
Deputy [Premier] . Hon. Walter H. Roban: [I am] not clear what the Honourable Member is asking. I am not responsible for any of the details around the sugar tax. My department was responding to queries by the public, who believe that prices were being manipulated, and the rationale was the sugar tax. And that is all that the sugar tax has relevance to what I have to deal with, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerSupplementary? SUPPLEMENTARY Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Yes, supplementary, Mr. Speaker. If the rationale was around the sugar tax, did the people investigating find that this was false or positive in regard to the sugar tax? There has to be an explanation. If the Minister comes to this House with a …
Supplementary?
SUPPLEMENTARY
Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Yes, supplementary, Mr. Speaker. If the rationale was around the sugar tax, did the people investigating find that this was false or positive in regard to the sugar tax? There has to be an explanation. If the Minister comes to this House with a Statement, there has got to be some meat on the bone.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Minister. Hon. Walter H. Roban: Mr. Speaker, the sugar tax is not the subject of the Statement. It is price gouging. And that can happen for a variety of reasons, as I outlined in the Statement. The sugar tax is not the focus of the Statement. Some people …
Thank you. Minister. Hon. Walter H. Roban: Mr. Speaker, the sugar tax is not the subject of the Statement. It is price gouging. And that can happen for a variety of reasons, as I outlined in the Statement. The sugar tax is not the focus of the Statement. Some people have brought that to our attention. But, as I have outlined, there are a number of reasons why price gouging can go on. And perhaps the Honourable Member needs to always, in this case, declare his interest because of his clear involvement with—
The SpeakerThe SpeakerWell, well. You were fine, you were fine up to the end, Deputy. Any further questions? Supplementary? There are none. That brings us to a close of questions for you, Deputy. The next Statement that Members have a question for is the Statement from Minister Brown. Minister Brown, there is …
Well, well. You were fine, you were fine up to the end, Deputy. Any further questions? Supplementary? There are none. That brings us to a close of questions for you, Deputy. The next Statement that Members have a question for is the Statement from Minister Brown. Minister Brown, there is one Member who would like to put questions to you in regard to the u pdate on the practice of project management and pr ocurement, I believe it was. And it is the Member from constituency 20, the Opposition Whip. Would you like to put your question now?
QUESTION 1: UPDATE ON THE CODE OF PRACTICE FOR PROJECT MANAGEM ENT AND PROCUREMENT —FRAMEWORK AGREEMENTS
Ms. Susan E. JacksonThank you, Mr. Speaker. My first question this morning is, I am just wondering, with this new framework in place, how are you going to continue to support the Throne Speech initiatives that a number of smaller contractors and vendors, local companies, would have a chance to participate in local …
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My first question this morning is, I am just wondering, with this new framework in place, how are you going to continue to support the Throne Speech initiatives that a number of smaller contractors and vendors, local companies, would have a chance to participate in local government contracts if we are g oing to go to a framework that allows for a single te nder, which will provide all supplies and goods to go vernment acr oss all ministries?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Minister. Hon. Walton Brown : Thank you for that question. We actually will have a system whereby the tendering process will be opened up to small companies. That is actively being worked on the by Office of Project Management and Procurement. We are act ually drafting the appropriate …
Thank you. Minister.
Hon. Walton Brown : Thank you for that question. We actually will have a system whereby the tendering process will be opened up to small companies. That is actively being worked on the by Office of Project Management and Procurement. We are act ually drafting the appropriate legislation to provide a mechanism whereby smaller companies can get access to government contracts. The process that we have talked about here today, service agreements, relates to a few areas, in particular, the telecommunications area, which is being selectively applied.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Minister. Supplementary or new question? You are good? Okay. Thank you, Minister. That brings a close to questions on your Statement . 312 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly The final Statement this morning is from the Minister of National Security. There is one …
Thank you, Minister. Supplementary or new question? You are good? Okay. Thank you, Minister. That brings a close to questions on your Statement . 312 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly The final Statement this morning is from the Minister of National Security. There is one Member who has a question for you, Minister. The Member from constituency 31, would you like to put your question?
QUESTION 1: ROYAL BERMUDA REGIMENT UPDATE
Mr. Ben SmithYes. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Honourable Minister in the Statement referred to, “work continues to stand up the muchanticipated Coast Guard Unit.” Is the Minister able to give us an update on the budget for the Coast Guard Unit?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMinister. Hon. Wayne Caines: The budget will be delivered in line during our Budget Debate.
Mr. Ben SmithHas there been any expenditure during this budget year that was not anticipated?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMinister. Hon. Wayne Caines : Can you repeat the question, please?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerBasically, the question was . . . he was trying to find out if any additional monies had been spent that were not budgeted for as part of this? Hon. Wayne Caines : I would have to double- check that and bring that information back to this House, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Fine. No further supplementaries?
Mr. Ben SmithSecond supplementary. And, if possible, if we could find out, if there is an additional payment, how much would the extra budget have been? Hon. Wayne Caines: [Yes], Mr. Speaker — The Speaker : Thank you. No further questions, no supplementaries. That brings us to a close of the question- …
Second supplementary. And, if possible, if we could find out, if there is an additional payment, how much would the extra budget have been?
Hon. Wayne Caines: [Yes], Mr. Speaker — The Speaker : Thank you. No further questions, no supplementaries. That brings us to a close of the question- and-answer period for this morning. And we will now move on to other matters.
CONGRATULATORY AND/OR OBITUARY SPEECHES
The SpeakerThe SpeakerWould any Member wish to speak to that? No Member? The Member from constituency 11, we see you on your feet now.
Mr. Christopher FamousYes, Mr. Speaker. Good morning again. I just want to thank the people of Bermuda for standing up with BELCO workers earlier this year. It is not often that the people of Bermuda exercise their voice in support of workers for utility. But in this case, they realise the mitigating …
Yes, Mr. Speaker. Good morning again. I just want to thank the people of Bermuda for standing up with BELCO workers earlier this year. It is not often that the people of Bermuda exercise their voice in support of workers for utility. But in this case, they realise the mitigating factors, and they realise that they need to decide it with the workers of Berm uda. So, on behalf of the workers of BELCO, I want to thank the then Minister, Honourable Brown, and Ho nourable Walter Roban, for doing what they could for the workers of BELCO and, by extension, the people of Bermuda. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerDoes any other Member wish to speak? Does any other Member wish to speak? We recognise the Honourable Member from constituency 10. Honourable Member. Hon. Michael H. Dunkley : Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would ask this Honourable House to send congratulations to a young Bermudian, Kyle James, …
Does any other Member wish to speak? Does any other Member wish to speak? We recognise the Honourable Member from constituency 10. Honourable Member. Hon. Michael H. Dunkley : Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would ask this Honourable House to send congratulations to a young Bermudian, Kyle James, on his exhibition of photography last night at the Cosmopolitan Nightclub. And I think the Honourable Wayne Furbert would like to be associated with these comments, as well, and Honourable Lawrence Scott. Mr. James got into aerial photogr apher some years ago. And I have known this young man through his desire to always stay in shape. And I have been very impressed by this young man, because not only does he work hard, but he loves Bermuda and he is proud of Bermuda. And his aerial ph otography just highlight s Bermuda, and he promotes Bermuda go forward. So, I would like to congratulate Kyle and his team for what they do. We have to work hard to pr omote our image, and here is a fine young man who certainly adds a lot to Bermuda. And I wish him the best, going forward. On a sadder note, Mr. Speaker, I would like to extend condolences to the family of Kirk Cooper, who passed away earlier this week, to his beautiful wife, Helen, and three children. Most people will know Mr.
Bermuda House of Assembly Cooper for his numerous occasions part icipating in the Olympics. I think he sailed in the Olympics three times and got very close to winning a medal in his first Olympics. But, outside of that, he was a very solid family man. He was community dedicated at all times. He got involved in politics , and he certainly was a very successful businessman. Mr. Cooper was one of those people who, when I was growing up, because I knew his children quite well, I admired because he always spoke very firmly, but in a quiet way. And he could lead without being in front. And he always got things done. He was a man of integrity and character, and I wish his family all the best during this period of grieving, on his pas sing. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. We recognise the Honourable Member from constituency 32. Honourable Member.
Mr. Scott SimmonsI rise on a sad note today in mentioning to those who have served and lived in Bermuda. Mr. Speaker, I was not certain whet her or not this was done last week, as it relates to Mr. Ter-rence Victor “Ted” Richards. I was not sure if we had done …
Mr. Scott SimmonsI would like to extend . . . he was the husband of Kalmar Richards. And I recognise [and associate] the entire House, absolutely the entire House, and especially the Minister of Education, and the Shadow Minister of Education, as it relates to this very sad moment. And we would …
I would like to extend . . . he was the husband of Kalmar Richards. And I recognise [and associate] the entire House, absolutely the entire House, and especially the Minister of Education, and the Shadow Minister of Education, as it relates to this very sad moment. And we would like to extend to them our absolute commiserations on this very, very sad occasion. In addition, he will be sorely missed. The family is very much loved in our community. And our hearts go out to them, especially. Mr. Speaker, also, I would like to send out condolences to a cousin of mine, Tammy Grace Bar-clay. I would like to extend to William and Annette Barclay our most sincere . . . quite a few Members of the House, including the Minister of Health, Minister Wilson, and the entire House—
Mr. Scott Simmons—would like to extend to the Barclay family our absolute condolences in this very, very, very sad hour. Mr. Speaker, in our community, significant members are passing, and along with them are cer-tainly contributions to our society. And we mark them. They mean something, and they matter. Thank you, Mr. …
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Any other Member wish to speak? I recognise the Honourable Member from constituency 2. Honourable Member Swan, you have the floor.
Mr. Hubert (Kim) E. SwanYes, Mr. Speaker. And good morning, Mr. Speaker. It is with fond sadness that I offer condolences to the family of Mr. Arthur “Bobber” Wilkinson, from Wellington Back Road, in St. George’s, by extension the Burgess family from North Shore of St. George’s. And I associate my colleague, the Honourable …
Yes, Mr. Speaker. And good morning, Mr. Speaker. It is with fond sadness that I offer condolences to the family of Mr. Arthur “Bobber” Wilkinson, from Wellington Back Road, in St. George’s, by extension the Burgess family from North Shore of St. George’s. And I associate my colleague, the Honourable Member from constituency 1, MP Ming, with those cond olences. I have known Mr. Wilkinson all of my St. George’s life, as I consider myself, first and foremost, a North Shore St. Georgian. And I know that North Shore wins better than most. And I know Minister Foggo would like to be associated because I think she has some association with that Burgess connection, of Mr. Wilkinson’s mother out there in North Shore, St. George’s. He was a gentleman, Mr. Speaker, an abs olute gentleman. And I certainl y am obliged to have known him. And I feel sad for his passing. But he had good innings, 91 years, and for a life well lived, this quiet gentleman from St. George’s. May he rest in peace, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member. Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak? We recognise the Minister of Education. Minister, you have the floor. Hon. Diallo V. S. Rabain : Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, I want to attach my condolences to the Commissioner of Education. It has been a very …
Thank you, Honourable Member. Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak? We recognise the Minister of Education. Minister, you have the floor.
Hon. Diallo V. S. Rabain : Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, I want to attach my condolences to the Commissioner of Education. It has been a very diff icult six or so weeks with her, and the difficulties she faced with her husband. She has had the full support of the Department of Education and the Ministry of Education while she has worked through what can only be described as very difficult circumstances with her husband being overseas for medical treatment. And her still trying to perform the job of the Commi ssioner while away shows her dedication to our chi ldren of Bermuda, which is what we always must keep in the forefront. Mr. Speaker, I also want t o send congratul ations to PartnerRe, who donated money to the various high schools for their Dollars for Hours programme. It is a programme that has been going on for several years. And it is one that we should be proud of, be-cause our students get out there and do community 314 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly service projects and are rewarded for those donations that they do give. Mr. Speaker, I also want to send congratul ations to Validus Re and the Sylvester family for the donation of the new Smiley’s Bus to the Dame Marj orie Bean Hope Ac ademy. Lastly, Mr. Speaker, congratulations to the Harrington Sound [School] family for their recent d onations to the Paralympic Association, the Bermuda Diabetes Association and the Bermuda TB, Cancer and Health Association. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Minister. Does any other Member wish to speak? We recognise the Honourable Member from constituency 8. Honourable Member, you have the floor.
Mr. N. H. Cole SimonsThank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to associate myself with the comments made in regard to Ms. Tammy Barclay, as well as the Commissioner of Education on the loss of her beloved husband. Mr. Speaker, I would like to also send congratulations to Dr. Carika Weldon. She …
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to associate myself with the comments made in regard to Ms. Tammy Barclay, as well as the Commissioner of Education on the loss of her beloved husband. Mr. Speaker, I would like to also send congratulations to Dr. Carika Weldon. She recently was appointed as a researcher of Oxford University G enomic Centre. I think it is the first time that we have had a Bermudian in such an astute position. She was at De Montfort University, as everyone knows. But to be at probably one of the world’s leading academic centres bodes well for her and the type of people whom we produce. So, I would like for the House to send congratulations to Carika for her achievements and her success as a researcher at the famous well -known Oxford University. The Honourable Patricia GordonPamplin would like to be associated with those r emarks.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Does any other Member wish to speak? No other Member? We can move on . . . Oh. The Opposition Whip, you almost missed your opportunity this tim e. We recognise the Oppos ition Whip.
Ms. Susan E. JacksonThank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, just a moment. I would like to be associated with the condolences being sent and shared for the loss of Kirk Cooper. He and his family have been living in consti tuency 20 for all time. They have quite a legacy there. And, as a …
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, just a moment. I would like to be associated with the condolences being sent and shared for the loss of Kirk Cooper. He and his family have been living in consti tuency 20 for all time. They have quite a legacy there. And, as a sailor and as a Bermudian who represented the country worldwide, he, I certainly believe, is one of our stalwarts when it comes to representing Bermuda, especially in the sailing community. A nd to his family, he has left a legacy of children who are also creative, are travelling and spanning the world, sharing the artistic designs inspired by this Island. And I certainly wish the family the best in the future, and I am very sorry for them at t his time. I would like to associate my colleague, Scott Pearman, with those condolences. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Any other Member? We recognise the Member from constituency 4. Honourable Member, you have the floor.
Mrs. Tinee Fu rbertGood morning, Mr. Speaker, and thank you. I just wanted to send congratulations to Mr. Steve Wilson, who recently won a gold medal in the Boccia Tournament in Argentina. Mr. Steve Wilson is a para- athlete. I would like to associate the whole House with that.
Mrs. Tinee FurbertSo, we are congratulating Mr. Steve Wilson in winning that gold medal. He was also accompanied by Ms. Yushae DeSilva, and also Mr. Omar Hayward, who also performed very well. I would just like to read a li ttle quote that he had written, hi mself, in regard to his …
So, we are congratulating Mr. Steve Wilson in winning that gold medal. He was also accompanied by Ms. Yushae DeSilva, and also Mr. Omar Hayward, who also performed very well. I would just like to read a li ttle quote that he had written, hi mself, in regard to his performance. And he said, “No matter what difficulties you face, your life is not over. You always have a purpose to achieve something.” And so, Mr. Wilson being a para- athlete, has overcome this gr eat, great challenge. And I am so very happy for his success. He does train very hard, as well as the other athletes. They train every day of the week. And I have seen them train, and I would just like to congratulate them, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.
The Sp eaker : Thank you, Honourable Member. Does any other Honourable Member wish to offer congratulations or condolences? I recognise the Honourable Member from constituency 19, yes. Honourable Member, you have the floor.
Hon. Jeanne J. Atherden : Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYes. Hon. Jeanne J. Atherden : I still have speaker problems. I would like to do two things. One, I would like to be associated with the remarks to the family of Kirk Cooper. But I would like to go on the other path. Kirk was one of the founders …
Yes.
Hon. Jeanne J. Atherden : I still have speaker problems. I would like to do two things. One, I would like to be associated with the remarks to the family of Kirk Cooper. But I would like to go on the other path. Kirk was one of the founders of Cooper & Lines. And as you can appreciate, as a Bermuda student, when you wanted to do accountancy on a professional basis, Cooper & Lines was the leading firm that you wanted to be with. Obviously, in the summer, it had lots of students.
Bermuda House of Assembly And Kirk was what I call the quiet one. Lots of people would view David Lines as the vocal one, but Kirk was the quiet one, and he was always someone who was prepared to talk to students about what was important in terms of accounting, and making sure that he provided guidance for those persons who wanted to be in the profession. And, obviously, I knew of all of the other a ttributes and sports, et cetera, that he was involved in. And my sympathies go out to his family, because he will be m issed. And, [two], on a congratulatory note, I would like to have congratulations sent to Goslings , because Goslings just finished the Goslings Invitational Tour-nament. Goslings has been supporting this tourna-ment for over —I think it is 42 years, somethin g along those lines. So, it is important for us to recognise this, especially with the goodwill tournaments numbers in the past going down, and that Goslings numbers have continued to go up. Because we have to appreciate that the more people come down to Bermuda, with their families, participating in these tournaments, it is a contribution to the economy as it relates not only to the bed nights, but also people understanding what Bermuda is like. Because once people get here and they know how great Bermuda is, they always want to come back. So, we appreciate what they are doing, and we would like to say congratulations for their efforts. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member. I now recognise the Honourable Member from constitu ency 1. Honourable Member, you have the floor.
Mrs. Renee MingI would like to begin my comments on a sad note, first of all, to send thoughts and pra yers to the family of Arthur Fox, from Floral Lane in St. George’s. Mr. Fox —when you canvass, you get to meet a lot of people. So, he gave me a …
I would like to begin my comments on a sad note, first of all, to send thoughts and pra yers to the family of Arthur Fox, from Floral Lane in St. George’s. Mr. Fox —when you canvass, you get to meet a lot of people. So, he gave me a lot of history lessons with regard to politics and his thoughts on politics. And I would just like to also associate Minister Foggo and MP Swan with those comments. And, on a happier note, Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate the organisers of the First Annual St. George’s Boat Parade. That happened last week, Saturday. For those of you who were unable to attend, you surely did miss something of such a high calibre that was well attended. And we look forward to this, hopefully, becoming an annual event. Also, congratulations to Mayor Quinell Francis for hosting her annual Christmas Cocktail Party, al-ways a good time in the Squar e. And also, congratulations on the retirement, to Detective Constable Mark Clarke, whom I have known for quite some time. And I know that he has been very effective in his contributions, especially with regards to sex offenders. And he has written paper s on it. And I know that, at the time when we had the Joint Select Committee, he was very participatory. Please assoc iate MP Gordon- Pamplin, and also Sylvan Richards, with those comments.
Mrs. Renee MingThe whole House is being assoc iated with those comments.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThe whole House for Mr. Clarke, yes. The whole House.
Mrs. Renee MingSo, Mr. Speaker, on that note, I will end my comments. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. No other Member is moving? Ah! I recognise the Minister. You moved a little slowly that time, Minister. We recognise the Mi nister Foggo. You have the floor. Hon. Lovitta F. Foggo : Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to be joined with the remarks just given …
Thank you. No other Member is moving? Ah! I recognise the Minister. You moved a little slowly that time, Minister. We recognise the Mi nister Foggo. You have the floor. Hon. Lovitta F. Foggo : Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to be joined with the remarks just given by MP Renee Ming regarding Mark Clarke, whom (1) I consider a good friend; and (2) who has performed in his respective career as a police officer at the highest of heights, and has maintained, I guess, if you will, a stellar and clean record in the performance of his duties. And he deserves all of the acc olades and recognition that this House has given to him today because of a great career that he has had in the policing division. And so, Bermuda thanks him for all that he has done within his dut ies as a police officer. And I just wanted to stand up and associate myself with the remarks given regarding Mark Clarke. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerNo other Member wishes to speak on this? We can now move on. MATTERS OF PRIVILEGE
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThere are none. PERSONAL EXPLANATIONS
The SpeakerThe SpeakerWe have one personal explanation on the Order today. And that is in the name of MP Moniz. MP, would you like to put your matter forward? 316 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Hon. Trevor G. Moniz : Good morning, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerGood morning. DOCKYARD PREFAB HOUSES —REBUTTLE TO MINISTERIAL STATEMENT (23 NOVEMBER 2018) Hon. Trevor G. Moniz : On the 23 rd of November, the Minister of Public Works made a Ministerial Statement to the Honourable House on the WEDCO pre- fab housing project, locally known as the 100 Homes pr …
Good morning.
DOCKYARD PREFAB HOUSES —REBUTTLE TO MINISTERIAL STATEMENT (23 NOVEMBER 2018) Hon. Trevor G. Moniz : On the 23 rd of November, the Minister of Public Works made a Ministerial Statement to the Honourable House on the WEDCO pre- fab housing project, locally known as the 100 Homes pr oject. In that Statement, the Minister made a number of insulting and disparaging statements about the OBA and its Members. In addition, he appeared to disagree with our handling of the partial cancellation of the PLP project by the OBA Government in 2013. And, in broadcast interviews, he wondered aloud, “ How do you justify the decision and keep it quiet?”, while also admitting that he hi mself did not agree with the type of construction that was used for the units, as being untraditional and problematic. Finally, the Minister, in his Statement, said, “the then Minister continues to sit in this place. A nd I invite him to explain his ac tions and culpability in this incredible waste of taxpayer funds.” He further questioned the condition of the remaining panels, which have been stored for the past five years. Mr. Speaker, let me first address the allegation that I somehow kept my decision quiet. On the 7 th of June 2013, I made a seven- page Statement to the House of Assembly on my decisions to stop the 100 Homes project. And I will now table a copy of that Statement for the information of the House. In the run -up to the 2012 election, our lack o f support for this project was made quite clear. It was therefore no surprise when the decision was announced. And, in addition, my Ministerial Statement was well publicised in the media. The Minister should, in all good conscience, apologise and retract t hose words. The fundamental disagreement is with the Minister’s contention that there is a shortage of adequate housing. In our view, the abject failure of the Grand Atlantic Housing project was a clear indication that there was sufficient housing stock, after a major exodus from Bermuda of thousands of people under the PLP Government. Only two units were ever sold in the Grand Atlantic project. We provided 20 new homes, while also refu rbishing and renting numerous units in the Boaz Island development, and at the same time saving the public purse $11 million. In addition, we saved Bermuda from what would have been an unacceptably dense housing development. Mr. Speaker, finally, I can hardly be expected to answer for the storage of the panels. I moved off from the Ministry in December 2013, five years ago. And, in any case, the panels were in the sole custody, care and control of WEDCO, whose responsibility it was to keep them in good order and condition. Mr. Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to give my side of the story.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member. NOTICE OF MOTIONS FOR THE ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE ON MAT TERS OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThere are none. INTRODUCTION OF BILLS GOVERNMENT BILLS
The SpeakerThe SpeakerWe have one Government Bill, in the name of the Minister of Finance. FIRST READING ECONOMIC SUBSTANCE ACT 2018 Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson : Mr. Speaker, I am intr oducing the following Bill for its first reading so that it may be placed on the Order Paper for the next …
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. OPPOSITION BILLS The Spe aker: There are none. PRIVATE MEMBERS’ BILLS
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThere are none. NOTICES OF MOTIONS
The SpeakerThe SpeakerWe have a notice of a motion. MOTION THAT THIS HOUSE SUPPORT THE INCLUSION IN THE PARLIAMENTARY CODE OF CONDUCT POLICIES AND PROCEDURES THAT EMBRACE A CULTURE OF RESPECT TOWARDS WOMEN PARLIAMENTARIANS AND WOMEN IN GENERAL B ermuda House of Assembly Hon. Patricia J. Gordon- Pamplin : Thank you, Mr. …
We have a notice of a motion.
MOTION
THAT THIS HOUSE SUPPORT THE INCLUSION IN THE PARLIAMENTARY CODE OF CONDUCT POLICIES AND PROCEDURES THAT EMBRACE A CULTURE OF RESPECT TOWARDS WOMEN PARLIAMENTARIANS AND WOMEN IN GENERAL
B ermuda House of Assembly Hon. Patricia J. Gordon- Pamplin : Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I propose to move the following Motion at the next day of meeting: “BE IT RESOLVED that this Honourable House decries the posting of inappropriate and/or sexist comments on social media by Members of Parli ament and that this House supports the inclusion in the Parliamentary Code of Conduct policies and proc edures that will embrace a culture of respect towards women parliamentarians and women in general.”
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. We will move on. ORDERS OF THE DAY
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThat brings us to the first Order of today. Members, the first order of business on the agenda for today is the second reading of the Chief Medical Officer (Transfer of Functions and Validation) Act 2018, in the name of the Minister of Health. Minister Wilson. Hon. Kim N. Wilson …
That brings us to the first Order of today. Members, the first order of business on the agenda for today is the second reading of the Chief Medical Officer (Transfer of Functions and Validation) Act 2018, in the name of the Minister of Health. Minister Wilson. Hon. Kim N. Wilson : Yes. Good morning, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I move that the Bill entitled the Chief Medical Officer (Transfer of Functions and Val idation) Act 2018 be now read the second time.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAny objections? No objections. Continue on. BILL SECOND READING CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER (TRANSFER OF FUNCTIONS AND VALIDATION) ACT 2018 Hon. Kim N. Wilson : Mr. Speaker, the Chief Medical Officer (Transfer of Functions and Validation) Act 2018 was tabled on the 16 th of November 2018. Mr. Speaker, the Chief …
Any objections? No objections. Continue on. BILL SECOND READING CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER (TRANSFER OF FUNCTIONS AND VALIDATION) ACT 2018 Hon. Kim N. Wilson : Mr. Speaker, the Chief Medical Officer (Transfer of Functions and Validation) Act 2018 was tabled on the 16 th of November 2018. Mr. Speaker, the Chief Medical Officer (Transfer of Func-tions and Validation) Act 2018 transfers certain stat utory functions of the Chief Medical Officer to the Chief Environmental Health Officer, the Director of the D epartment of Health, the Bermuda Health Council and, where appropriate, a registered medical professional. The Act, Mr. Speaker, effectively regularis es many of the functions that are assigned to the Chief Medical Officer, but have actually been performed by the entities that I just spoke about. Mr. Speaker, the Chief Medical Officer was previously referenced in 26 pieces of legislation and 24 regulations, with countless responsibilities and an overwhelming number of roles. The placement of the Chief Medical Officer in every decision -making role in health and non- health legisl a-tion is a historical feature of how the Ministry of Health used to be structured and based on a Bermuda with a smaller government, fewer businesses and less activ ity. Mr. Speaker, what has happened over the years is that the Chief Medical Officer has been used as the default position for everything from administering child care to registering hospitals, regulating milk storage and providing personal health assessments. The scope and expectation of experience in the role is wholly untenable, out of alignment with the public health role, the position, and not representative of the same position in other jurisdictions. As such, Mr. Speaker, we have undertaken a review of all of the Acts and Regulations where the Chief Medical Officer is referred to, and have made amendments where a different person or organisation is better placed for that role. Mr. Speaker, one example of the incorrect use of the Chief Medical Officer who is a trained physician, is in the Public Health (Offensive Trades: Storage Treatment and Distribution of Animal Excreta and Faecal Matter) Regulations 1966. In these regulations, Mr. Speaker, the Chief Medical Officer is tasked with directing how manure should be stored, among other functions. This is a highly inappropriate task for a Chief Medical Officer who, as I said, is a qualified physician, and more appropriately should be placed with the Chief Environmental Health Officer, who would be trained in these public health areas. Mr. Speaker, transferring these functions from the Chief Medical Officer to the relevant authority, with the capacity and background to handle the areas, just makes sense. But it also ensures that the Chief Medi-cal Officer can focus on the vast responsibilities he or she has, which include registering and regulating health professionals, monitoring and controlling communicable diseases throughout Bermuda, regulating control of licensed drugs, and acting as the public health focal point to report to international agencies on our health in Bermuda. Mr. Speaker, the Chief Medical Officer (Transfer of Functions and Validation) Act 2018 will alloc ate the handling of functions within the Ministry of Health, appropriately ensuring that everyone is able to act in the role, and with the expertise, they were placed therewith. With those brief i ntroductory r emarks, Mr . Speaker, I thank you and inv ite colleagues to prov ide assistance in submission.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member. Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak? We recognise the Honourable Member from constituency 23. Honourable Member Gordon- Pamplin, you have the floor. 318 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin : Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. …
Thank you, Honourable Member. Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak? We recognise the Honourable Member from constituency 23. Honourable Member Gordon- Pamplin, you have the floor. 318 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin : Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I looked through this legisl ation, it occurred to me how inappropriate some of the references are for the duties and responsibilities of the Chief Medical Officer, which perhaps over time have become entrenched. These need to be amended and adjusted. And, obviously, this Act, which is effectively a housekeeping Act to give effect for those changes, those substantive changes, is now being debated. Mr. Speaker, as I went through, I looked at things like “ fumigation control, ” where the Chief Med ical Officer is the one who ensures that you cannot sell to a non- licensed person, to offer licences to fumigate, and things that are just so inappropriate for a medically trained professional, for a doctor, to have the r esponsibility for. Some of the interesting things that I saw as I went through, though, indicated— and I know we can actually go into detail when we get into Committee on this. But there are one or two things that are coming out fr om this that I questioned the propriety, or whet her we could, perhaps, relook and rethink it from the perspective that, if we start to look at staffing, who are fit, in respect of the Children Act, maybe that is som ething that the Chief Medical Officer may continue to oversee. It just seems as though that would be an appropriate second set of eyes, because I think that we cannot take too lightly the safety of our children. And to the extent to which we have people in their care, or people responsible for their care, we need to ensure that our children are safe. So, there is a second level of scrutiny that I would perhaps like to see remain with the Chief Medical Officer in that particular instance. And, as I said, we can, obviously, discuss those as time goes on. There are things that the Minister will not now be responsible for, but with so many things being stripped out, I wonder if the Minister would be able to provide us with an overview of the functions that have actually remained with the CMO. Because, as the Minister indicated, there are 26 legislation issues and 24 regs where the Chief Medical Officer has been gi ven responsibility that clearly can be passed on to ot hers. I think when we get to the Committee stage, we can start to look at the responsibi lities in some of those respective areas. But I wanted to say that we do support this legislation, in principle and in general, with the excep-tion of perhaps the odd one or two things where it might be appropriate. You know, when I look at things like hote l licensing, and liquor licensing, and timesharing, and [other] things, really, [I realise] the Chief Medical Officer’s time is better spent doing more substantive policy issues than the minutia of administr ation and bureaucracy with which she has been tasked under these various forms of legislation. And we certainly support extricating her from those responsibil i-ties so that we can have a cleaner house in which the Chief Medical Officer can continue to reside in the appropriate fashion. I think it is most important, though, that we are made aware of what remains. What are the over - arching . . . it does not have to be legislated, but certainly it would be useful from a knowledge perspective, from a community knowledge perspective, to know what is left in terms of what the Chief Medical Officer’s primary responsibilities are, how she carries out those responsibilities and how we, as the Parli ament, can assist her in enhancing what it is that she is required to do, and to ensure that she is able to operate eff ectively and efficiently. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Member. Does any other Member wish to speak? No other Member? Minister. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I thank the honourable colleague for her contributions. Mr. Speaker, in going through this particular piece of legislation, when the team at the Ministry of Health went …
Thank you, Member. Does any other Member wish to speak? No other Member? Minister.
Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I thank the honourable colleague for her contributions. Mr. Speaker, in going through this particular piece of legislation, when the team at the Ministry of Health went through all the pieces of legislation, I can think of one example, in particular, where it was legi slation that was relating to something completely outside of the scope of the Chief Medical Officer [CMO]. And when I looked at it, and only because one of my colleagues said, Oh, well, that comes under you now. And I looked, and I am like, The CMO shall do X, Y, Z. And I was like, Really? It is no t a role for the CMO. However, Mr. Speaker, there are still quite a number . . . in fact, the CMO, once this legislation is finished, will still have an extensive list of responsibil ities, which will include, Mr. Speaker, registering more than 1,000 healt h professionals. She handles health professional complaints for the 1,000 registrants. She monitors the import and export of controlled drugs. She continues to monitor the occurrence of disease on our Island. She serves as the international focal point for international agencies and is involved heavily in issuing statutory documents such as Customs letters for personal medications and the like. So, I am saying she because the actual Chief Medical Officer is a female, Dr. Cheryl Peek -Ball. And so, she has a huge task in front of her for day -to-day operations. She, effectively, is the face, so to speak, of public health. And so, the amendments that we see today ––and I am glad that the Opposition are suppor ting us ––are critical in allowing her to focus on her t ask at hand, as opposed to the 50- some- odd pieces of legislation and regulations that refer to her. Heret ofore, she has been the default —not she, but the pos ition has been the default. If in doubt . . . Like I said, I was looking at a piece of legislation recently. And my colleague said, Oh, well, that comes under you now. And I looked at
Bermuda House of Assembly it, and it was the default clause. If in doubt, if the word “health” is involved, then we are going to just throw it over to the CMO, without any consultation with Health to see whether or not it even actually fits. So, the real ity is that this is playing catch -up, and we are cleaning up quite a few pieces of legislation that refer to her when they really should be appropriately referred to a different person. So, for example, all of the provisions under the Children Act 1998, which deal with ensuring that the facilities and the equipment are sanitised, the nu-trition, the programmes, ensuring that they are issued a licence —all of those things should be aptly addressed by the Director of the Department of Health, who oversees that particular aspect, as opposed to the CMO. So, in that regard, Mr. Speaker, I would like to move that this Bill be committed to Committee now.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYes. Deputy. House in Committee at 12:05 pm [Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr., Chairman] COMMITTEE ON BILL CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER (TRANSFER OF FUNCTIONS AND VALIDATION) ACT 2018
The ChairmanChairmanMembers, we are now in Committee of the whole [House] for further consideration of the Bill entitled the Chief Medical Officer (Transfer of Functions and Validation) Act 2018 . Minister, you have the floor. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With your lea ve, I would like to …
The ChairmanChairmanAny objections to moving clauses 1 through 4? There appear to be none; continue. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Bill seeks to amend various legislation to transfer certain of the Chief Medical Officer’s statutory functions to the Chief Environmental Health Officer, the Director of the Department …
Any objections to moving clauses 1 through 4? There appear to be none; continue.
Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Bill seeks to amend various legislation to transfer certain of the Chief Medical Officer’s statutory functions to the Chief Environmental Health Officer, the Director of the Department of Health, and the Bermuda Health Council, as well, Mr. Chairman, as to validate any function the Minister of Health or the Chief Med ical Officer purportedly delegated to a public officer or public authority. Mr. Chairman, clause 1 is the title of the Bill. Clause 2 provides that the amendments made in the Schedule shall apply to the various legislation transferring the Chief Medical Of ficer’s functions accordingly. Clause 3 validates any of the Chief Medical Officer’s statutory functions purportedly delegated by the Minister of Health or the Chief Medical Officer before the coming into operation of this Act. Clause 4 provides for the co mmencement of the Bill.
The ChairmanChairmanAny further speakers? The Chair recognises the Honourable Member Pat Gordon- Pamplin. You have the floor, Honourable Member. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, my on ly comments that I wish to make relate to the Schedule. And the Honourable Member has moved …
Any further speakers? The Chair recognises the Honourable Member Pat Gordon- Pamplin. You have the floor, Honourable Member.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, my on ly comments that I wish to make relate to the Schedule. And the Honourable Member has moved clauses 1 through 4. I have no objection to clauses 1 through 4. But I do have some observations on the Schedule. So, I just wonder, at what point would you like fo r me to address those?
The ChairmanChairmanYou can continue. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: I can do it now?
The ChairmanChairmanYes. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you. Okay. So, if I go to page 5 of the Bill, under the Chi ldren Act 1998, this is where we are deleting “Chief Medical Officer” and substituting the “Director of the Department of Health.” And this is page 5, under clause …
Yes. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you. Okay. So, if I go to page 5 of the Bill, under the Chi ldren Act 1998, this is where we are deleting “Chief Medical Officer” and substituting the “Director of the Department of Health.” And this is page 5, under clause 2. It starts off staying, “regulation 64,” and then under column 1, where it refers to the Children Act 1998. And section 67 of the Children Act, as I mentioned while we were in the regular debate, indicates that the CMO is responsible for ensuring that the staff of day care are fit and proper persons. And while that might, effectively, be able to be passed on to the Direct or of the Department of Health, I think I just wanted to feel more comfortable . . . I should not say I wanted to. I think I would feel more comfortable if there was just a higher oversight. B ecause I think, when it comes to our children, som ebody in the professional capacity of the Chief Medical Officer might be appropriate to keep just that partic ular function, that she makes sure that people are fit and proper in terms of the staff of the day care. Other issues in the various sections, in terms of issuing l icences, issuing licence renewals, following fees paid, cancelling or suspending or refusing licences —those things are obviously very easily managed by the D irector of the Department of Health. But I did want to refer to . . . When I looked at the Chil dren Act, and I am not certain why or if there is a newer version, but the version that is online, under sections 76(1), 76(6A) and 76(6C), in the online version does not include the reference to the Chief Med ical Officer. So, I am just curious as to why t here is . . . 320 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly I do not know whether what is online is not up to date. So, I wonder if the Minister could advise us what is included in sections 71(6A) and 71(6C), because, according to my copy, it did not mention the Chief Medi-cal Officer. The other question that I had was in section 76B(1). Again, there was no 76B(1) in the online copy. So, it is not a criticism. When I start to look at changes in legislation, it is important to understand what we are changing and how what we are changing j uxtaposes against what is there. And I just have issues with that. On page 7 of the Bill, it indicates that this is going from the Chief Medical Officer to the Environmental Health Officer, and this is with respect to tes ting of defibrillators. I just wanted clarity that, when this has been transferred over, we are ensured that the condition of the instrument is continuously being un-dertaken. A defibrillator is something that is, very clearly, urgent, urgently required when you have a medical emergency. And, even though the Chief Medical Officer may not do it, the Environmental Health Officer . . . is there a schedule? You know how in buildings, Mr. Chairman, you have elevator inspections, and there is a schedule? Is there a schedule with respect to the condition of the defibrillator instr uments? The other issue is under the Workers Comp, where the [CMO] . . . this is now also moved to the Chief Environment Health Officer. This is Workers’ Compensation Act 1965, page 7. And this is the Workers’ Comp in sect ion 28. This is like the penult imate clause on the page 7. In section 28(1)(f), deleting CMO and putting “a medical practitioner appointed by the Minister.” And I am just wondering. I am sorry, the one before that. It effectively says that . . . (Just give me one second.) So, [at clause 4(g)(i)] the Minister appoints the [medical practitioner after consultation with the] Bermuda Medical Doctors Association [BMDA]. And the question was, What if the Minister does not agree with the BMDA’s choice? And this is in section 2(1) of the principal Act, Workers’ Compensation Act 1965, section 2(1), definition of “medical aid,” taking out the “Chief Medical Officer” and substituting “a registered medical practitioner appointed by the Minister after consultation with t he Bermuda Medical Doctors Ass ociation.” What if the Minister does not agree with the BMDA’s choice?
The ChairmanChairmanIt says “consultation,” you know. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Yes. Well, it does say “consultation.” But . . . well, I guess the Minis ter does have the final say.
The ChairmanChairmanYes. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Okay. So, I will accept that. Then, the other question was an examining physician . . . let me see which point that came in under. There are so many things here. Okay. Okay . I will pass over that comment. The CMO . …
The ChairmanChairmanWhere are you? Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: I am just looking here to make sure that I have the proper reference. If I can get answers to those for the minute, and then I will just go back and clarify my writing so that I can ask the next …
The ChairmanChairmanAny further speakers? Minister, you have the floor. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, with respect to section 67 in the Schedule of the Children Act, at page 5 . . .
The ChairmanChairmanYes. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Yes, Mr. Chairman, the “fit and proper” designation, in order to determine whether or not that person is able to operate and receive a l icence for running a day -care facility, requires cross - agency i nteraction. And, as such, the director is best …
Yes.
Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Yes, Mr. Chairman, the “fit and proper” designation, in order to determine whether or not that person is able to operate and receive a l icence for running a day -care facility, requires cross - agency i nteraction. And, as such, the director is best placed to deal with that, because it is dealing with environmental health, to make sure that the place has the requisite two- point . . . I do not want to be sarcastic, but 2.5 square feet for every one child, make sure that they have the right toilets, and so forth. So, the director, who oversees all of these agencies within the Ministry of Health, is best placed to be able to address those concerns which were raised in section 67. It is a cross- agency review. Mr. Chairman, with respect to the other issue . . . actually, with respect to section 76, I am not sure what the Opposition is referring to. But in my Act, it says, at section 76(6A), “The Chief Medical Officer may issue a provisional certificate . . . .” So, the Chief Medical Officer is referenced. So, I am not quite sure which version of the legislation that the Honourable Member is referring to. And the reference to the Schedule, Mr. Chairman.
The ChairmanChairmanYes. Section 71(6C) and section 76B(1) [of the Children Act]. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. Chairman, I am sorry. What page? What? Page 5, still back on page 5? All of those references are incorrect. So, the Opposition may want to ensure that she has an up- to-date copy of …
Yes. Section 71(6C) and section 76B(1) [of the Children Act].
Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. Chairman, I am sorry. What page? What? Page 5, still back on page 5? All of those references are incorrect. So, the Opposition may want to ensure that she has an up- to-date copy of the Children Act 1998.
The Cha irman: Okay. And [section] 76B is included in that Act you have, right, the original Act?
B ermuda House of Assembly Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Correct. It is in the version of the 1998 Act.
The ChairmanChairmanRight. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: And there was a question concerning . . . oh, you answered that, about the consultation. So, thank you very much.
The ChairmanChairmanAny further speakers? The Honourable Member Pat GordonPamplin, you have the floor. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just wanted to ask the Minister if she could perhaps . . . I do not know how it works for information to be put up online. But …
Any further speakers? The Honourable Member Pat GordonPamplin, you have the floor. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just wanted to ask the Minister if she could perhaps . . . I do not know how it works for information to be put up online. But the version . . . I know it is not the Ministry of Health. But because it relates to som ething that is being impacted, that maybe through whatever system, that we can make sure that there is an updated version that is online. It is kind of difficult to look if we do not have a hard copy of the most r ecent [versions]. I think those questions were the most i mportant questions that I had. There are one or two other comments that I had. But I think it is quite ap-propriate that I can just get clarity from the technical officers, because I think the Bill, as it stands, it is o bviously doing what it is designed to do. And that is relieving the Chief Medical Officer of extraneous r esponsibilities that are best placed with someone else. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The ChairmanChairmanYou are welcome. Minister, you have the floor. Do you want to move these? Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Yes, Mr. Chairman. I would like to move that the clauses 1 through 4, including the Schedule, be approved—
The ChairmanChairmanWait a minute. Hang on. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: No?
The ChairmanChairmanDo the clauses first. Just move clauses 1 through 4. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Okay. Mr. Chairman, I would like to move clauses 1 through 4.
The ChairmanChairmanIt has been moved that clauses 1 through 4 be approved. Are there any objections to that? There appear to be none. Approved. [ Motion carried: Clauses 1 through 4 passed.] Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to move that the Schedule be approved.
The ChairmanChairmanIt has been moved that the Schedule be approved. Any objections to that? It has been approved. [ Motion carried: The Schedule passed.] Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. Chairman, I move that the— The Cha irman: Preamble. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Yes, yes, Mr. Chairman.
The ChairmanChairmanIt has been moved that the preamble be approved. Are there any objections to that? There appear to be none. Approved. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to move that the Bill be now reported to the House as printed.
The ChairmanChairmanAre there any objections to the Bill being reported to the House as printed? There appear to be none. The Bill will be r eported to the House. [Motion carried: The Chief Medical Officer (Trans fer of Functions and Validation) Act 2018 was considered by a Committee of the whole …
Are there any objections to the Bill being reported to the House as printed? There appear to be none. The Bill will be r eported to the House. [Motion carried: The Chief Medical Officer (Trans fer of Functions and Validation) Act 2018 was considered by a Committee of the whole House and passed without amendment .] House resumed at 12:19 pm [ Hon. Dennis P. Lister, Jr., Speaker, in the Chair] REPORT OF COMMITTEE CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER (TRANSFER OF FUNCTIONS AND VALIDATION) ACT 2018
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMembers, are there any objections to the Chief Medical Officer (Transfer of Functions and Validation) Act 2018 being reported to the House as printed? No objections. It has been reporte d. That now brings us to a close of that matter, and we will move on to the second item …
Members, are there any objections to the Chief Medical Officer (Transfer of Functions and Validation) Act 2018 being reported to the House as printed? No objections. It has been reporte d. That now brings us to a close of that matter, and we will move on to the second item on the Order [Paper] for today. That is the second reading of the Allied Health Professions Act 2018, in the name of the Minister of Health. Minister. 322 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move that the Bill entitled the Allied Health Professions Act 2018 be now read a second time.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAny objections? No objections. Continue. BILL SECOND READING ALLIED HEALTH PROFESSIONS ACT 2018 Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I stand before you this afternoon to introduce the Bill entitled the Allied Health Professions Act 2018. Mr. Speaker, the Ministry of Health is committed …
Any objections? No objections. Continue.
BILL
SECOND READING
ALLIED HEALTH PROFESSIONS ACT 2018 Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I stand before you this afternoon to introduce the Bill entitled the Allied Health Professions Act 2018. Mr. Speaker, the Ministry of Health is committed to its vision, Healthy people in healthy communities, and its core values of quality, equity and sustainability. Mr. Speaker and Honourable Members, I would invite all to review the Health Ministry’s Roadmap 2018 –2022, which can be located at www.gov.bm/reports , because, Mr. Speaker, these are a wide variety of initiatives underway to move us closer to attaining the vision of healthy people in healthy communities. Today, Mr. Speaker, I would like to focus on the Ministry’s ongoing work to improve the regulation of health professionals in our community. Mr. Speaker, the regulation of health care professionals is essential to ensure high- quality care, and protect and promote public health. The Allied Health Professions Act 1973 (and hereinafter, I will refer to that as “the Act,” Mr. Speaker) is the legislation that ensures the standards of practice for several health professions, through registration, monitoring, complaint -handling and disciplinary procedur es. Mr. Speaker, the Bill entitled the Allied Health Professions Act 2018 proposes changes to the 1973 Act in order to align it with the Ministry’s other legisl ation for health professionals, which will also enable efficiency in regulation, and to regulat e five new pr ofessions. Mr. Speaker, the professions proposed for regulation are: acupuncturist; chiropractors; counse llors; massage therapists; and social workers. Cons equently, Mr. Speaker, the changes include the repeal-ing of the 1973 Act and the Chiropractors Act 2002. And it will replace them with this 2018 Bill being intr oduced now for the consideration of this Honourable House. Mr. Speaker, the Council for Allied Health Pr ofessions (“the Council”) is the legislated body that is charged with ensuring that high standards of professional competence and conduct are upheld, as well as to advise the Ministry on issues pertaining to them. The Council currently regulates more than 10 health care professions throughout the establishment of its boards that as sist the Council in achieving its functions. Mr. Speaker, since 1973 when that Act was last updated, the Ministry has been in consultation with the Council. Further amendments were identified to address key issues around registration and renewal of regist ration, complaint -handling processes and ot her procedures, including a reorganisation of the legi slation for more logical flow of content for stakeholders. Additionally, the proposed changes for complaint - handling, disciplinary procedures and appeals proc edures were also identified in order to ensure that the constitutional rights to a fair hearing exist. It is i mportant to note that the efforts of the Council and the Ministry to advance standards for professional practice and regulation are ongoing. And, Mr. Speaker, I would like to just advise Members of the House that the existing professions that are currently regulated under the 1973 Act i nclude addictions counsellors; audiologists; chirop odists; diagnostic imaging technologist, which includes subdivis ions and specialities; dieticians; emergency medical service practitioners, which also includes subdivisions and sub- specialities; medical laboratory technicians; occupational therapists; physiotherapists; and speech and language pathologists. So, those pr ofessions are already currently regulated under the 1973 Act, Mr. Speaker. And what this Bill proposes to do is add five further professions to also come within the remit of the legislation. So, Mr. Speaker, the majority of the provisions in the 1973 Act are incorporated into this 2018 Bill which is under the consideration now of the House. However, Mr. Speaker, there are several other up-dates which are also required. As previously stated, Mr. Speaker, these updates include the incorporation of chiropractors and four other professions, as well as the repeal of the Chiropractors Act 2002, which was never operationalised, Mr. Speaker. The Ministry is in consultation with the avail able professional associations and members of each of the five professions prop osing to be regulated, and there are working groups currently developing stand-ards and registration criteria in preparation for the regulation under the 2018 Bill. So, Mr. Speaker, effectively, what we have is that these professions that will be added, the Ministry has been in constant consultation with these profes-sions so that we can hear their views. And we are also assisting these professions so that they can establish their own codes of practice, scope of practices, stan dards, as well, which will outline things like entry into the profession, disciplinary measures, et cetera. So, we are working [extensively] with them. There has been full consultation, Mr. Speaker, with these partic ular bodies to add them to the professions that are a lready in existe nce under the 1973 Act.
Bermuda House of Assembly Mr. Speaker, there are other further specific updates in the 2018 Bill that I would like to advise Honourable Members. One is to improve represent ation and efficiency of regulation by streamlining the composition of membership on t he Council, inclusive of a provision for the creation of boards with more than one profession represented; to insert a provision to protect the Council and its boards, and the Professional Conduct Committee, from liability; to require the renewal of regist ration to be tied to continuing professional development; to mend or correct the professional titles of several professions in order to effectiv ely ensure title protection, as well as to reflect the changes in education and practice, over time. Another update is to significantly improve complaint -handling, disciplinary procedures and appeal procedures, which include, Mr. Speaker, (1) to expand the power to establish a code of conduct that includes standards and scopes of practice for each profession; (2) to eliminate the complaint -handling process under the 1973 Act and establish a new pr ocess that aligns with legislation for other health pr ofessionals and satisfies the constitutional right to a fair hearing; and to change appeals for registration dec isions from Cabinet to the Supreme Court. Right now, Mr. Speaker, the appeals process with respect to registration is appealed to Cabinet. And we are changing that so that the appeal will go straight through to the Supreme Court, Mr. Speaker, which is consisten t with many other pieces of legisl ation involving appeals against a decision affecting registration. As I also said, Mr. Speaker, it is important to note that these particular professions, which are ad ded to the 1973 Act, will be developing their own code of conduct, their own processes, their own standards and the like. The advantage of doing it the way that we are doing it now, Mr. Speaker, is that these particular professions will have the opportunity to be able to be assisted by other boards that are l ong esta blished. For example, the physiotherapist board, which is well established, will have some of these professions encompassed under it so that it can assist them with development codes of practice, standards and the like, so that we can effectively complete our vision, Mr. Speaker, which, again, is regulation so that we have healthy people in healthy communities. Mr. Speaker, the 2018 Bill aims to standardise and improve the regulation across health care professions and to ensure that allied health professions are subject to a more just disciplinary system. Overall, the Bill entitled the Allied Health Professions Act 2018, Mr. Speaker, e nsures high standards of practice that protect both allied health professionals, their patients, and their service users. And again, Mr. Speaker, if I can pause real quickly, because I certainly need to pay homage to the team at the Ministry of Health that pulled this t o-gether. This has been a work in progress for quite some time, led under the direction of the Permanent Secretary. The Policy Analyst and all of the team pulled together this very comprehensive piece of le gislation. Again, it had been taking quite some time for us to get to where we are now, and they pulled it t ogether with their hard work and dedication. And for that, I would like to thank them. Mr. Speaker, again, this had full consultation. And the professions that are being added wish to be regulated. They wish to be part of this process. And this will help to secure the vision that we have at the Ministry of Health, as well as to protect the public. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Minister. Does any other Member wish to speak? We recognise the Honourable Member from constituency 23. Honourable Member, you have the floor. Hon. Pa tricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is whether you wish me to could continue now or, given the …
The SpeakerThe SpeakerActually, I was just writing down the time you got up and realised it was 12:30. [Laughter]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerNow, I am sure that Members would like to have a break at this time. This is customary. So, Minister Brown, would you like to take us to that period? Hon. Walton Brown: Yes, Mr. Speaker. I move that we do now adjourn for lunch, and return at 2:00 pm.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMembers, we now stand adjourned until 2:00 pm. No objections to that?
Some Hon. Members Some Hon. MembersNo. [Gavel] Proceedings suspended at 12:31 pm Proceedings resumed at 2:02 pm [Hon. Dennis P. Lister, Jr., Speaker, in the Chair]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerGood afternoon, Members. Are we ready to resume the session today? [Gavel] 324 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly BILL SECOND READING ALLIED HEALTH PROFESSIONS ACT 2018 [Debate continuing]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerWe now are resuming the debate on the second reading of the Allied Health Professions Act 2018 and I believe the Shadow Minister was about to take the floor before we broke for lunch. Madam, would you like to continue? Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Yes, thank you,
Mr. Speaker .
The SpeakerGo right ahead. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Mr. Speaker , it is with a little bit of concern that I contribute to this afternoon’s debate.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMm-hmm. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: It was quite a pparent when the Minister gave her presentation earl ier, just before the lunch break —and this is on the A llied Health Professions Act 2018—that this has been a work in progress for quite some time. And she u nderscored …
Mm-hmm.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: It was quite a pparent when the Minister gave her presentation earl ier, just before the lunch break —and this is on the A llied Health Professions Act 2018—that this has been a work in progress for quite some time. And she u nderscored the fact that the technical officers have worked tirelessly in order to bring the legislation to where it is today. And I understand the job that the technical officers are required to do because we have sat in this place and we sat in that space, so we understand that there are things that are required in order to bring legislation to fruition. We recognise, Mr. Speaker , that the wheels of governmental bureaucr acy grind very slowly. But with that said, Mr. Speaker , when the Mi nister can stand and say it has been a work in progress for quite s ome time, we have in front of us legislation that impacts 23 pages of legislation and 8 pages of Schedules. And I preface my remarks, Mr. Speaker , to say that this Bill was tabled last week Friday. Now, custom and practice gives us the opportunity to have sufficient time in order to look at legislation that has been tabled, to be able to discuss, understand and feel comfortable that when we come to this Honour able House we are truly representing a supporting view, a contrary view, a position where we can ho ld hands on particular legislation and areas where we might differ. When we do not have the opportunity, as the Minister has, to be able to be going through the birt hing pains of legislation, we are left at a severe disadvantage. We are in this Honourable House, intending to do the people’s business; there is nothing in this legislation as I have been able to glean— Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Point of order, Mr. Speaker .
The SpeakerThe SpeakerPoint of order. POINT OF ORDER [Misleading] Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Yes, Mr. Speak er, I believe this Honourable Member is misleading the House, perhaps inadvertently, but there was consultation . . . excuse me, there was correspondence between our Whip and the Whip of the Opposition as recently as …
Point of order.
POINT OF ORDER [Misleading]
Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Yes, Mr. Speak er, I believe this Honourable Member is misleading the House, perhaps inadvertently, but there was consultation . . . excuse me, there was correspondence between our Whip and the Whip of the Opposition as recently as the 4 th of December where the Whip of t he Opposition agreed to go short. So for this Honourable Member to stand to her feet and suggest that we are trying to do som ething at the last minute without consultation is inacc urate, and is a misrepresentation and is misleading the House. She may choose to turn around to her Whip and ask her Whip at what date —and I can tell you it was the 4 th of December —was it consented to to go short.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member . Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Yes, Mr. Speaker , I am glad the Honourable Member raised that because the 4th of December —today is the 7th—the 4th of December was three days ago. So within a three- day period of time, when it is normal …
Thank you, Honourable Member .
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Yes, Mr. Speaker , I am glad the Honourable Member raised that because the 4th of December —today is the 7th—the 4th of December was three days ago. So within a three- day period of time, when it is normal that we would antic ipate and expect that we would have two sittings to be able to debate legislation, that we are required to do something of this magnitude in such a short period of time. That is a concern. That is a concern, Mr. Speaker. And the Honourable Member is, you know —
The SpeakerThe SpeakerNow, now, Honourable Member , let me just cauti on you. I gave you a little leeway, but any matter that is agreed to be done here is agreed to by the Speaker. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: I agree—
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThe Speaker made that decision for this to proceed because the Speaker saw corr espondence that went back and forth indicating that both sides had acknowledged that it could be done today. Based on that, we are now doing it. If the Speaker was not comfortable with that we would …
The Speaker made that decision for this to proceed because the Speaker saw corr espondence that went back and forth indicating that both sides had acknowledged that it could be done today. Based on that, we are now doing it. If the Speaker was not comfortable with that we would not be doing it. So, you st ressed your point. And now I am going to suggest that you move on, because if you continue down that road then you are going to start
Bermuda House of Assembly questioning the Speaker’s decision, and I am not going to have that. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Mr. Speaker , I am not at all questioning your decision, sir. What I am suggesting is that when we have something that is this important —
The SpeakerThe SpeakerI suggest you just move on. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Yes, I will. But I think it is important for me to say this, i f you will permit me, Mr. Speaker . To say that if there is better respect for the process, then we can engage effectively …
I suggest you just move on.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Yes, I will. But I think it is important for me to say this, i f you will permit me, Mr. Speaker . To say that if there is better respect for the process, then we can engage effectively so that we can contribute —
[Inaudible interjection] Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Are you the Speaker?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerBut the Speaker — Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: —so that we can contribute—
The SpeakerThe Speaker—did suggest you move on. And I see you continued down the same road. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: No, I just wanted to make this one point, Mr. Speaker .
The SpeakerThe SpeakerNo, no, no, no. You made your point. Continue on, please. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: So Mr. Speaker , it is difficult to be able to be effective in my present ation—and I am moving down a different path —
The SpeakerThe SpeakerOkay. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: —without the requisite time to be able to understand all of the clauses, all of the intent, and everything that is needed in order to make a positive contribution to the debate. So, that is important to mention. So, let me just say, in …
Okay.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: —without the requisite time to be able to understand all of the clauses, all of the intent, and everything that is needed in order to make a positive contribution to the debate. So, that is important to mention. So, let me just say, in terms of the legislation itself, to the extent that I have been able to understand what it is that they are attempting here, Mr. Speaker , is to recognise that there are efficiencies having an overarching umbrella. So we understand that and we support that . We are looking at the establishment of a Council which is being embodied by this legislation. And looking at this Council the . . . having the Council, with its responsibilities of looking up designated pr ofessions and being able to recognise what is needed in this Allied Health Professions Act, with the limited time that we had, the only consultation that I was able to have was one with respect to personal trainers. And I know that this was a concern that has been articulated. And with that concern, Mr. Speaker , we look at the interaction with the public of personal trainers that . . . where there could conceivably be negative impact to the public. So I do know that according to the legislation under one of the clauses (and I do not remember off - hand w hich) there is a possibility that new professions may be able to make application to be able to be i ncluded. But with that said, Mr. Speaker , I would like to have the Minister, hopefully, favourably consider should an application come from personal trainers, to give that sort of favourable consideration because it is important the physical trainers are not left to go rogue in an environment in which people can have negative health outcomes as a result. So what seems to happen here, Mr. Speaker , is that each of the professions effectively . . . or the like professions will have a Board that is established. And the boards that are established, in making sure that the membership applications relating thereto are appropriate applications to be processed, the legisl ation effectively says that persons need to be skilled academically and professionally. Now the one thing that I just wanted to highlight in this particular instance is the necessity for a robust code of conduct. A code of conduct is included in the legislation, but a robust code of conduct, which is effectively allowing for continuing professional development so that people who hold themselves out to be providers of specific services are, not just som ebody who has been skilled academically and profes-sionally, but rather somebody who has also kept up on the cutting edge of the advances in their own pr ofessions in order to maintain currency in what it is that they are required to do. I think that this . . . I did not see that this was specified. A nd it may be a combination of the academic and professional nomenclature as well as the code of conduct, but it was not clearly stated, and I think that this is a very, very important thing to do. Now, I know that one of the things that gave me a little c ause for pause was the registration of members of their respective professions and that members are required, prior to the expiry of their current membership, to . . . renew their membership. It says only in the legislation “on or before.” So if “on or before” the expiry date one inadvertently fails, it does not seem to have a provision which enables one to say, I went past December 31 (which is my date for reregistration), I’m now on January 5 th because I got caught up at Christmas . . . and it does not sa y that there could be a consideration given for that person who was delinquent at the date certain to be able to rectify his oversight or anomaly at a future date. It effectively just speaks to you will register by the a ppointed date or you could be struck off the register if 326 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly you don’t. But there has got to be some flexibility and leeway ––I have no doubt, in the interim that this would be the intent ––I am sure, to make sure that we do not have people who may inadvertently be struck off a register. So the C ouncil’s duties and responsibilities . . . they, clearly, are key. What did not seem to be clear to me is, because this is a new Act and this Council is a new entity and the period of time for which the Council members —
Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Point of inform ation, Mr. Speaker. Point of clarification, excuse me.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerPoint of clarification. POINT OF CLARIFICATION Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you to the Honourable Member for yielding. The 1973 Act established the Allied Health Professions Council. This 2018 Act is . . . the Council still exists. What we are doing is we are adding a number of criteria …
Point of clarification.
POINT OF CLARIFICATION
Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you to the Honourable Member for yielding. The 1973 Act established the Allied Health Professions Council. This 2018 Act is . . . the Council still exists. What we are doing is we are adding a number of criteria but, in particular, we are allowing for basically a mixing of professions. So one profession that is already a member of Allied Health will now encompass the acupuncturists. So the Council itself is still —
[Inaudible interjection]
Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Exactly. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Okay.
Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker , and thank you for yielding.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . And I appreciate the Minister making that clarification because these are the kinds of things that I would have had the opportunity, with a little bit of consult ation with the technical officers, to be able to come with an effective presentation. So that is the reason for my concern. So I think that . . . with what I am seeing with the Council, I did not see that the existing members were staggered in their appoi ntment. And it might be that this is the way it worked in the original Act. But if everybody here, I think, according to what I read, that people would be appointed to the Council for a time certain. If everybody is being appointed at the same day [and] they expire at the same time, is there any kind of overlap so that we have an effective continuity in the Council? In other words, if everybody is appointed for a one- year or a two- year period of time—
[Inaudible interjection] Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pampl in: I am just asking a question in terms of the way this Act is . . . is written. So the other question that I have is with r espect to the availability and the possibility of a locum tenens to be able to take the place of somebody who is registered. And t he locum, obviously, would also have to be registered, but it gives them a maximum of a three- month period of time and during that threemonth period of time . . . it might not be sufficient. But I did not see that the ability for that same locum tenens to be able to extend their position for, let us say, another period of a month if the substantive individual is not quite ready at the end of three months. Or would there be a requirement for a new locum tenens to be brought in, such that the person holding that office does not fall afoul of their three- month r esponsibility? The comments that I wanted to make . . . obviously, I am concerned, as people indicated to me, that you know personal injury is a challenge. But the . . . certainly the efficiencies and how the Board . . . how the Council is now overarching and the Boards are intermingling and being overseen, it is creating a situation which we, obviously, can support. But I do want to know that in this codifying that the . . . it seems like we might be having another layer of infr astructure and bureaucracy, but in fact, once I read through the legislation it seems to be pairing it down to a comfortable management situation. But I am just a little concerned . . . I certainly support the new professions that have come in, with the five new ones that the Minister alluded to that have been included. And those are: acupuncturists; the chiropractors, which presently exist, are now coming in under this legislation; counsellors; massage therapists; and social wor kers. And, obviously, all of those are professions that form an integral part of our community in the services that they provide. So, obv iously, apart from ensuring that they are all up to date, that everything that they are required to do is controlled, m anaged, and overseen and that they keep up to date in terms of the best practices, then obviously we will support this. I do have a couple of questions that are more specific to the legislation which I am quite happy to discuss when we get into Committee. But with the comments that I have made, Mr. Speaker , I would have loved the opportunity to have been able to discuss some of these issues with the technical officers so that we could have an effective debate. Thank you, Mr. Speaker .
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank yo u, Member. Does any other Member wish to speak? I recognise the Honourable Member from constituency 4. Honourable Member , you have the floor. Bermuda House of Assembly Mrs. Tinee Furbert: Thank you, Mr. Speaker , and good afternoon. It actually gives me great pleasure to be able …
Thank yo u, Member. Does any other Member wish to speak? I recognise the Honourable Member from constituency 4. Honourable Member , you have the floor.
Bermuda House of Assembly Mrs. Tinee Furbert: Thank you, Mr. Speaker , and good afternoon. It actually gives me great pleasure to be able to speak to this particular Bill, because this Bill is one that has actually been in the works for a number of years, even under the former Government. I would like to declare my interest. I was a former Chair for the Allied Health Professions Counci l and served on that Council for a number of years. And we kept hearing, under the previous Government, that it was going to get tabled soon . . . it was going to get tabled soon—soon, soon, soon was what we kept hearing. And so I am grateful that our Gove rnment has finally come forward and we are being progressive in finally getting this Bill put through. So a lot of the changes in this particular Act were actually recommendations that have come via the policy analysis —both former and currently now — and als o allied health professionals as well who, currently or past, who had served on the Boards or the Councils. And so they do come with great understand-ing and modernisation of an Act of 1973 to now make it an Act of 2018. And so I just want to give due dilig ence in recognising the team who have finally gotten this Bill together to be able to bring it to us today to be debated and also to thank the allied health professionals who sit on the Boards and Council voluntarily . . . you know, they do a lot of work behind the scenes volun-tarily, even though it is a paid Board. But there is tons of work that gets done beyond those, sort of, working hours and months that they have to meet. And so actually the Allied Health Professions Council has been one of the leading councils or leading areas for other newer professions who are regulated in making sure that they are proficient in creating or developing codes of conduct and standards of practice. The Bermuda Health Council has also been helpful with assisting the Counc il in creating actually a whole standard of a standard of practice as well. And the new professions coming under the Allied Health Professions [Council] actually will have something already in place as it comes to the general Allied Health Professions stan dards of practice—sorry — code of conduct document. This Bill also represents an amalgamation, just like we added recently the midwifery to the Nur sing Act, but an amalgamation of professions coming together to be regulated under one Act. And so it is creati ng a modernisation for other professionals to actually come on board to be regulated, professions that have been around for a long time but have not had the opportunity to be regulated. And so this is gi ving them opportunity to be able to do that. I also n oticed in the Act that there is a prov ision for continued consultation with Allied Health Pr ofessions —the Boards and the Council —as it comes to them actually having to discharge their functions, or the new professions that are coming on board actually being involved in the actual regulation processes. And that is outlined in their ability to be on actual boards and actually being a part of the Council as well. And so there is that provision for specified professions to be a part of the Board where there are areas of concern for them. One area of concern that I have raised to the Minister before is the size of the Council should Bermuda . . . you know, as we grow and there are more health or Allied Health Professions coming into play in Bermuda. Currently, di agnostic imaging is one of the growing professions. I believe [there are] over 100 diagnostic imagers on Island. And you know what happens when we get to numbers —and I am not hoping that we do not —but when we get to the numbers of . . . let us say, the nur sing field, how the Council or the Boards would be able to handle such a big capac ity is concerning. Having each specific profession represented under the Council and it growing so hugely, I am hoping that there is provision where that does not happen so t hat people can be fairly represented on the particular Council. I also noticed, as far as the application for designations for specific professions that we have r emoved the criteria for actually having five professions from an association or not with an as sociation to act ually be able to apply to be part of a specified profes-sion. Because before you had to have five or more and now we have removed the five or more designation so that people have more ease to be able to come on to be underneath the Allied He alth Professions Act. What is also great about this legislation is the fact that with the constitution of Boards there has been some changes from what the Act used to say before. But it allows for, again, the involvement of specific professions to be recognised on the Boards and usually these are chosen from the actual profes-sions themselves and so not from any other group who may not understand the specified professions. And so there are provisions in this Act to make sure that there is equal representati on of professions —both on the Boards and on the Council. Another big piece to this Act is the application for registration. There was a piece in there in the 1973 Act which spoke to the assistants of specific professions coming on board and it spoke to the Act having a role or an enrolment. And actually now we have taken out some of that language and it is now just a registration for assistants. And so that actually will open up some doors for some assistants that actually are out there—maybe an occupationa l therapy assistant, a physiotherapy assistant, a speech and language therapy assistant. It has made the process now more seamless when an assistant is trying to seek out regulation. The Minister has also recognised that whenever there is an appeal process that the previous Act 328 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly spoke to appealing to the Cabinet and now there is parity amongst other Acts where they are actually a ppealing to the Supreme Court, which makes more sense than having to appeal to Cabinet. So that was a huge change in this particular Act. What I did see in this Act . . . where we talk about provisional registration, something which occurred previously when people were collecting all of their documentation, or you had a new grad who might not necessarily have the actual paper document [in hand], when they have passed their exam and sometimes they are right in the middle of the registr ation process and they are just waiting for that doc ument to come in, then provisional registration I know in other jurisdictions is granted until that ac tual paper does come in. And I see the Act does not necessarily speak to provisional registration in that capacity where people have totally completed their coursework, totally completed their training, but they are just waiting for that document to come i n to say that they have passed their exams. And so to make the process more seamless . . . they have passed their exams, they know they have done well, we are just waiting for the documen-tation to come in. If provisional registration is granted, it is gra nted with a deadline or with the criteria of that documentation coming in. And so we will not delay the registration process because a certain document has not come in. Another area the Act of 1973 spoke to was the Professional Conduct Committee. Previous ly it spoke to a Preliminary Conduct Committee. And the Preliminary Conduct Committee has actually been removed and so that leg of professional conduct was an extra leg where both committees kind of had the same duties. And so that particular leg was remov ed out of this Act so that it was a more seamless approach to having to deal with professional conduct. One of the requests I know of on the council was to have more support when it came to the Pr ofessional Conduct Committee and actually the pr ocesses rel ated to professional conduct. And so the Act has outlined this very nicely. You do not have to guess anymore in regards to some areas as it relates to professional conduct. The other area in here that will be a key piece was when there was a professional conduct complaint it was never really clear in regard to who could actua lly make a complaint. And at times we would have third parties making complaints or you would have professionals with the requests of their clients actually ma king complaints to the Pr ofessional Conduct Commi ttee. And so now there is provision for persons acting on behalf of the complainant and it is very clear when it comes to the Professional Conduct Committee. So a lot of cleaning up has been done. I see an additional power —the ability to summon people when it comes to the Professional Conduct Commi ttee. That ability was not there before where we had to . . . the council had requested . . . I am sorry, the Pr ofessional Conduct Committee had requested people to come in and speak or send in particular documentation and they would skip the Island or leave the I sland and then we could not . . . we had no power or ability to make them bring documentation in or sit before an actual committee. And so now the ability to summons someone is a key fact and a key piece of power to be able to assert some authority in an allied health professional having to be involved in the Pr ofessional Conduct Committee deliberations. So, as I mentioned before, all of the Boards and Councils work very diligently in regard to producing their standards of practice and their codes of conduct. They do that and they have those documents ready. The new professions that are coming on board will have some guidelines that they will have available to them to be able to create their own code of conduct and standards of practice. So they will not have to reinvent the wheel too much other than what is speci fic to their actual practice, but there is lots of help out there for them to be able to do that. And I am sure they a re very grateful to finally come on board and be regulated in such a fashion. I do see that the fine has been increased in regard to someone using a specific profession’s title. Hopefully the increase in the fine will deter people from doing this. This ac tually does happen. We see this out in the community where somebody will have on their business card that they are representing some type of nurse. Particularly in this care- giving industry you will see people coming up or inventing some sort of title that they are not supposed to use. And so it is also important for making sure that pr ofessions are separated and they have access to par-ticular titles that they work so hard to achieve. I just want to speak to the repealing of the Chiropractors Act, and now the chiropractors are coming under the Allied Health Professions Act. At times there can be many health professions in Bermuda and sometimes the grouping and the sizes of the health professions can be very small and so having to come under one umbrella can be very helpful when you are having to track a particular registrant or you are ha ving to track regulation guidelines. And so while it is not the most ideal . . . and I know that some of the chir opractors pushed back in regard to the repealing of their A ct. But they are still regulated under the Allied Health Professions Act. And, hopefully, with the incl usion of having specific professions to be part of the Council or part of a particular Board, they will still have their thoughts and standards of practi ce, and any sort of decision that would need to be made on behalf of a chiropractor, that can now occur. And then just one big change where it speaks to the Schedule and just the interchange of (and the Minister spoke on this already) in regard to the dif ferent names of different professions that they have, as new educational programmes come about or som eBermuda House of Assembly one may be trained in the UK or someone may be trained in Canada or someone may be trained in the US, there are different names that are interchange able w hen it does come to professions. So in some j urisdictions you may hear the term “physical therapy” or you may hear the term “physiotherapy” and the same with the term “chiropodist” or the term “podiatrist.” Now this Act reflects more of a modernisation when it does come to professions which have different names across different fields. And so all those podi atrists that are out there, I am sure, will be very happy with this change and the reflection in that they can be now identified under the Law as a podiatrist. Or, pa rticularly, as a . . . because I know another one that was key when I was former Chair was the “medical laboratory technologist”, where before they were termed as a “technician.” And so as education changes, colleges change, we are just ma king sure that we remain up to date with what titles are out there so that people can be recognised in many different jurisdictions. Thank you, Mr. Speaker .
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member . Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak? No ot her? Minister. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . Mr. Speaker , there were a couple of questions that were asked during the general debate which I will endeavour to answer, in no …
Thank you, Honourable Member . Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak? No ot her? Minister. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . Mr. Speaker , there were a couple of questions that were asked during the general debate which I will endeavour to answer, in no particular order. With respect to the issue concerning a personal trainer . . . and I can understand the concern that was raised by the Honourable Member . However, personal trainers actually, in addition to them having their own series of certifications to enable them to provide that service, they are not health profess ionals. So, therefore, they would not fall within the remit of this 2018 piece of legislation. The issue concerning continuing education, which is clearly important, and the Honourable Member who sits opposite would obviously be familiar with this as a me mber of CPA Bermuda, myself as a me mber of the Bermuda Bar Association, that continuing education plays a very, very important role in many professions. And this is not dissimilar to the provisions under this legislation because the standards of practice . . . the Act provides that it will require the standards of practice to be adhered to as well as continual . . . I say continual legal education, sorry —continual professional education for these respective professions. Also, Mr. Speaker , there was an issue that was raised concerning the Boards and this is a reenactment of the 1973 Act. So, effectively, the prov isions that relate to the Boards remain in this one because it is a re- enactment. So the Boards themselves will . . . they can be replaced; they wi ll not be replaced at once. As a matter of policy, they are always conti nually staggered so that you would have some type of institutional knowledge remaining at the Board when new board members are appointed. And with respect to the issue that was raised concerning the fear that the growth of the Council will continue to grow and that the Council will grow as new professions come on board, the whole purpose of this legislation —as is indicated in the Act —is that we are allowing for mixed Boards. So, therefore, mixed Boards will prevent any type of bolstering or growth unnecessarily of the Allied Health Professions and it will also improve efficiency. For example, the acupuncturists, the massage . . . acupuncturi sts and massage therapists are all fal ling within the actual professional body of the Board which is labelled as physiotherapy. So we are mixing professions so that we will not continue to grow the Board exponentially because new professions will come on board, which is the principal objective of this legislation. So that we are not growing the Allied Health [Professions] Board exponentially, but we are allowing for mixed professions when professions have a similar structure, such as massage therapists and acupuncture therapists —it is common fit for them to be under the physiotherapists. So that is the whole point of us mixing the Boards. So the question about growth is really an unnecessary question because we are mixing the Boards, which is the objective and the mischief of the Act.
[Inaudible interjection] Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Yes. With that, Mr. Speaker , I would like to move that this Bill be now committed.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Minister. Deputy? House in Committee at 2:42 pm COMMITTEE ON BILL ALLIED HEALTH PROFESSIONS ACT 2018 [Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr., Chairman ]
The ChairmanChairmanHonourable Member s, we are now in Committee of the whole [House] for further consider ation of the Bill entitled Allied Health Professions Act 2018 . Minister, you have the floor. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, this Bill would repeal the Allied Health Professions Act …
Honourable Member s, we are now in Committee of the whole [House] for further consider ation of the Bill entitled Allied Health Professions Act 2018 . Minister, you have the floor.
Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, this Bill would repeal the Allied Health Professions Act 1973 and re- enact this Act with amendments. Chiropractors and certain other 330 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly new specified professions would be regulated under this Act, and the Chiropractors Act 2002 would be r epealed. Mr. Chair man, I would like to move these clauses by topic with your leave.
The ChairmanChairmanMm-hmm. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: And starting with clauses 1 through 3 which concerns the citation, the interpret ation, and where the Act does not apply in relation to practices b y certain armed forces.
The ChairmanChairmanContinue. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. Chairman, clause 1 pr ovides a citation for the Bill. Clause 2 defines the various expressions used in this Act. It also provides that the Council for Allied Health Professions [“the Council”] shall, so far as is practicable, discharge its functions under this Act …
Continue.
Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. Chairman, clause 1 pr ovides a citation for the Bill. Clause 2 defines the various expressions used in this Act. It also provides that the Council for Allied Health Professions [“the Council”] shall, so far as is practicable, discharge its functions under this Act after consultation with members of the specified pr ofession concerned or, where there is a Board for the specified profession, after consultation with the Board. Mr. Chairman, clause 3 provides that this Act is not to apply in relation to the practice of a specified profession by a person who is an officer or employee of certain armed forces on, or in relation to, a person who is a member of such a force, the family of such a member, or a person who is employed directly by such a force.
The ChairmanChairmanAny further speakers? There appear to be none. Minister? Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to move that clauses 1 through 3 be approved.
The ChairmanChairmanIt has been moved that clauses 1 through 3 be approved. Any objections to that? There appear to be none. Approved. [Motion carried: Clauses 1 through 3 passed.] Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to move clauses 4 through 10, which concern the constitution of …
It has been moved that clauses 1 through 3 be approved. Any objections to that? There appear to be none. Approved. [Motion carried: Clauses 1 through 3 passed.] Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to move clauses 4 through 10, which concern the constitution of the Council of Allied Health Professions, application for designation of specified professions, and the investigation and determination by the Minister as it relates to the designation of a specified profession.
The Chair man: Any objections to moving—
Hon. Kim N. Wilson: [Clauses] 4 through 10. The Chairman: —clauses 4 through 10? No. Continue.
Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Clause 4 provides for the appointment and constitution of the Council, and gives the provisions contained in Schedule 2 effect with respect to the Council. Clause 5 lists the functions of Council. Clause 6 provides for application for designation as a specified profession to be made to the Mini ster by an association of members of a health profession, or (if there is no association) any members of a health profession. After receiving an application, the Minister may either approve or refuse to approve the application without investigation, or conduct an inves-tigation in accordance with c lause 8 to determine whether a health profession should be designated. Clause 7 provides that the Minister may, in the absence of an application under clause 6, on his own initiative conduct an investigation to determine whether a health profession should be designated. Clause 8 sets out the procedure for an investigation regarding designation of a specified profes-sion. Clause 9 provides that, if the Minister determines that a health profession should be a specified profession, she shall so designate the pr ofession and add it to Schedule 1 in accordance with clause 10. If the Minister determines that it is contrary to the public interest to designate the health profession as a spec ified profession, the Minister shall refuse the applic ation and provide the ap plicant with reasons for the refusal. Clause 10 provides that the Minister may by order amend Schedule 1 by: (a) varying the definition or style of any specified profession, or (b) adding any profession thereto or removing any profession ther efrom. A person practising a new specified profession in Bermuda may temporarily continue to so practise without being registered in that profession until such date as is appointed by the Minister in the order add-ing the specified profession to Schedule 1. The order may include such other transitional provisions as the Minister thinks necessary. The negative resolution procedure shall apply to the order.
[Background noise] Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Shall I speak louder?
The ChairmanChairmanContinue. Continue, do not let that disturb you. [Laughter] Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. Chairman, I would now like to move clauses 4 through 10 be approved. Bermuda House of Assembly The Chairman: No, it has got to be responded to first. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Oh, sorry. I was …
The ChairmanChairmanDo not be, my dear. Any further speakers on clauses 4 through 10? The Chair recognises the Honourable Member Pat Gordon- Pamplin. Continue. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I understand and accept the Minister’s explanation with respect to physical trai ners. My question is …
Do not be, my dear. Any further speakers on clauses 4 through 10? The Chair recognises the Honourable Member Pat Gordon- Pamplin. Continue. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I understand and accept the Minister’s explanation with respect to physical trai ners. My question is under clause 6, is there anywhere outside of this that they could be controlled, managed, overseen? It is not that it does not come under Allied Health and I am just inviting the Mini ster to consider because I think that is an important point. Investigations regarding designations. The Minister (this is on clause 7) it says, “the Minister may, in the absence of an application under clause 6, on his own initiative conduct an investigat ion to determine whether a health profession should be designated.” And I think that is, perhaps, something that we could embrace and incorporate for areas that are causing public concern. Outside of that, I have no further questions.
The ChairmanChairmanAny f urther speakers? The Chair recognises the Honourable Member Susan Jackson. Ms. Jackson, you have the floor.
Ms. Susan E. JacksonThank you, Mr. Chairman. My question is around counsellors. I am just wondering whether the broader community will be i nformed because I imagine there are a number of counsellors that are home- based practitioners —
The ChairmanChairmanWhat particular clause are you talking about?
Ms. Susan E. JacksonI am referring to sort of the designation of specified professions. The Chair man: The designation—
Ms. Susan E. JacksonAround the application, making an application. [Inaudible interjections ]
The ChairmanChairmanMinister, you need to include the whole House. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Sorry.
Ms. Susan E. JacksonSo those who want to make application . . . you know, I am just curious whether and how the broader community of counsellors will know to make that application. Whether there is going to be any kind of public announcement so that people know that if they are practicing, …
So those who want to make application . . . you know, I am just curious whether and how the broader community of counsellors will know to make that application. Whether there is going to be any kind of public announcement so that people know that if they are practicing, in particular at home, we have got counsellors in churches —if they are g oing to have to make an application. So I just want to know —
The ChairmanChairmanMs. Jackson, do not leave the Chair out, pl ease. Do not leave us out. The Chair needs to understand what you are saying.
Ms. Susan E. JacksonYes. So, yes, I just am curious just to make sure that the people who are out in the counselling community, in particular, are aware of the application and whether that is going to include church counselling which takes place in churches, whether this is going to . . . …
Yes. So, yes, I just am curious just to make sure that the people who are out in the counselling community, in particular, are aware of the application and whether that is going to include church counselling which takes place in churches, whether this is going to . . . you know, include a number of other people that may be pract ising at home or not know.
The ChairmanChairmanAny further speakers? The Chair recognises Pat Gordon- Pamplin. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, this is on page 4 under clause 4 with the constitution of the Council. I did ask the question in the general debate and, as I said . . . …
Any further speakers? The Chair recognises Pat Gordon- Pamplin.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, this is on page 4 under clause 4 with the constitution of the Council. I did ask the question in the general debate and, as I said . . . I guess it has just now come clear that the Council . . . or let me ask the question. Will the Council that is the leftover, if I can put it that way, the remnant from the 1973 Act be brought in as the base of the Council now so that we will have that continuity on the Council? So that . . . you know, because this is a new Council based on this new Act, so I do not want to see that everybody gets appointed and then they sort of fall off at the same time.
The ChairmanChairmanAny further speakers? The Chair recognises the Minister. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Starting with the last question first, as I ind icated previously, this is a re- enactment. So that Board will remain as . . . insofar as if there are any that have 332 …
Any further speakers? The Chair recognises the Minister. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Starting with the last question first, as I ind icated previously, this is a re- enactment. So that Board will remain as . . . insofar as if there are any that have 332 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly been statute barred and their term has expired. So it is just a re- enactment. The first question, I have to apologise to the Member from const ituency 20 because I am not 100 per cent sure to what the Honourable Member is referring. However, clause 6 does provide that an application by a profession can be made to the Minister and then, obviously, the Minister will consider whether or not that profession should be added to the Board or mixed in, as we are doing now, mixed with a particular profession. So when it comes to church counsellors, if they want to form and they come together and they decide they want to establish their own code of practice, their own standards, their own terms of reference, so to speak, and then they want to present [it to] the Minister because they want to be regulated under the Allied Health, then it would be certainly something that we would consider. However, this Act is dealing with the social workers so, I guess, there is nothing to preclude them from doing it. I am not sure how they would organise, but that is a different issue. It may have been a hypothetical question, but the point specifically, I think, to answer the Honourable Member ’s question is that with respect to clause 6, it does allow for professions to come and make application if they wish to have any type of involvement. And that would include church counsellors, I guess.
The ChairmanChairmanAnd number 7? You answered number 7 earlier? Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Number 7?
The ChairmanChairmanYes, investigation by a Minister . . . you said it is tied in — Hon. Kim N. Wilson: It is tied to [clause] 6.
The ChairmanChairmanOkay. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Sorry, Mr. Chairman. [Clause] 7 just allows for the refusal of such application. With that, Mr. Chairman, I would like to—
The ChairmanChairmanJust one second. Any further speakers? Okay, Minister, you may . . . Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Okay, actually . . .
The ChairmanChairmanDo you want to move [clauses] 4 through 10? Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Yes, Mr. Chairman. I would like to move that clauses 4 through 10 be accepted and form part of the Bill. The Chairman: It has been moved that clauses 4 through 10 be approved. Are there any …
Do you want to move [clauses] 4 through 10?
Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Yes, Mr. Chairman. I would like to move that clauses 4 through 10 be accepted and form part of the Bill. The Chairman: It has been moved that clauses 4 through 10 be approved. Are there any objections to that? There appear to be none. Approved.
[Motion carried: Clauses 4 through 10 passed.] Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. Chairman, with your leave, I would like to proceed by moving clauses 11 and 12 concerning the constitution of Boards established un-der the Council for Allied Health Professions.
The ChairmanChairmanContinue. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Clause 11 provides for the constitution of Boards. Each Board consists of a Chai rman appointed by the Minister, and other members elected from among registered practitioners practising the specified profession or specified professions for which the Board is established. Where a specified profession is …
Continue.
Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Clause 11 provides for the constitution of Boards. Each Board consists of a Chai rman appointed by the Minister, and other members elected from among registered practitioners practising the specified profession or specified professions for which the Board is established. Where a specified profession is added to Schedule 1, the Minister shall, after consultation with the Council, determine whether the persons lawfully practising the specified profession shall: (a) be regulated by the Council, (b) be regulated by an existing Board, or (c) be regulated by a new Board. If I can pause, please, because I think this actually directly answers the question of the Honour able Member who just took her seat with respect to the provisions of the church counsellors’ group under clauses 6 and 7. Clause 11 (if I can repeat that) provides for the constitution of the Board and each Board will co nsist of a Chairman appointed by the Minister, and the other members elected [from] amongst the registered practitioners practising the specified profession. Where a specified profession is added to Schedule 1, the Minister shall, after consulting with the Council, determine whether those per sons lawfully practising the specified profession shall: (a) be regulated by the Council; (b) be regulated by an existing Board (i.e., the mixing which we are seeing now); or (c) be regulated by a brand- new Board. The Minister may, after consultation with the Council, if she is of the opinion that it is in the public interest to do so, establish a whole new Board or, after consulting a Board, abolish a Board. So that is where your church counsellors are going to come in. And clause 12, Mr. Chairman, lists t he functions of the Board.
The ChairmanChairmanAny further speakers? There appear to be none. Minister, would you like to move clauses 11 and 12? Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Yes, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Bermuda House of Assembly I move that clauses 11 and 12 be hereby approved. The Chairm an: It has been moved that clauses …
Any further speakers? There appear to be none. Minister, would you like to move clauses 11 and 12? Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Yes, thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Bermuda House of Assembly I move that clauses 11 and 12 be hereby approved.
The Chairm an: It has been moved that clauses 11 and 12 be approved. Are there any objections to that? There appear to be none. Approved. [Motion carried: Clauses 11 and 12 passed.]
The ChairmanChairmanContinue. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. Chairman, I wish to move clauses 13 through 21 concerning the Registrar of the Allied Health Professions, the maintenance of the register, the registration and renewal of registrations for Allied Health Professions.
The ChairmanChairmanContinue. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. Chairman, claus e 13 pr ovides for the Minister to designate, on such terms and conditions as are necessary for the proper carrying out of the provisions of this Act, a person to be the Registrar of Allied Health Professions [“the Registrar”]. Clause 14 …
Continue.
Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. Chairman, claus e 13 pr ovides for the Minister to designate, on such terms and conditions as are necessary for the proper carrying out of the provisions of this Act, a person to be the Registrar of Allied Health Professions [“the Registrar”]. Clause 14 provides for the form and content of the register, for the maintenance of the register by the Registrar, for its availability for inspection, and for its publication. Clause 15 provides the procedure for an application for registration by a person who seeks to practice a specified profession in Bermuda or to be an assistant in a specified profession in Bermuda, and the determination of such applications. Any person who is aggrieved by a decision to refuse registration or renewal of registration may, within 28 days after being notified in writing of the decision, appeal to the Supreme Court against the decision. Clause 16 provides that the registration of a “registered person” (a registered practitioner or an assistant) has effect for a period of two years from the date of his registration or such shorter period as may be specified in the certificate of registration issued to him. Clause 17 sets out the requirements for the renewal of registration. The Council may cause to be removed from the register the name of any person who fails to renew his registration or whose applic ation for renewal is refused. Clause 18 provides for proof of registration The Registrar may issue a certificate regarding a person’s registration. The certificate would be admissible in any proceedings as prima facie evidence of the facts stated therein. Clause 19 provides that, where a registered person intends to be absent from Bermuda, to practise outside Bermuda, or to refrain from practising in Bermuda, for a period of more than 12 months, he may apply to the Council to have his registration designated as inactive and shall return his certificate to the Registrar. The Council shall direct the Registrar to enter a notation on the register indicating inactive st atus. A person whose registration is designated as i nactive and who seeks to return to practise in Bermuda may apply to the Council for reissue of his certificate. Clause 20 provides for the Council to direct the removal of a person’s name from the register in certain circumstances. Any person aggri eved by a direction of the Council may, within 28 days from the date of receiving notice of the direction, appeal against the direction directly to the Supreme Court. Clause 21 provides that a person whose name is removed from the register may be registered in the register again only if a direction to that effect is given by the Council on the application of that person.
The ChairmanChairmanAny further speakers? The Chair recognises the Honourable Member Pat Gordon- Pamplin. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I draw the Minister’s attention to page 11, clause 17 on “Renewal of registration” and it is a question that I asked her during the general debate. …
Any further speakers? The Chair recognises the Honourable Member Pat Gordon- Pamplin.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I draw the Minister’s attention to page 11, clause 17 on “Renewal of registration” and it is a question that I asked her during the general debate. And there it specifies that: “The Council may cause the registration of a person to be renewed if the person on or before the expiration date of his registr ation” makes the application and pays the renewal fee. That is the question that I wondered . . . if there is any levity in respect thereof because if som ebody inadvertently gets past the date certain and has not re- registered, is there some kind of application . . . even if there is a necessity to pay an additional fee for late registration or something? But it does not seem like the intent would be to strike somebody off , but this does not give them any flexibility based on what we have here in the event of an inadvertent oversight. So I wonder if the Minister could speak to that.
The ChairmanChairmanMinister, do you want to respond to that? Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. Chairman, I am just looking at [clause] 17(1). Is that what the Honourable Member was . . . Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Yes. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. Chairman, I will endeavour to get that answer. …
Minister, do you want to respond to that? Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. Chairman, I am just looking at [clause] 17(1). Is that what the Honourable Member was . . . Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Yes. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. Chairman, I will endeavour to get that answer. However, I do understand that with all statutory boards there is normally a prescriptive date in which the registration application has to be submitted. However, there also is inherent jurisdiction to allow for circumstances such as illness or train wreck 334 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly or something that occurred that interfered with them getting the application in on time.
The ChairmanChairmanYes, it says that in the Act, but go ahead. It says “satisfies the requirements of section 15(5).” Hon. Kim N. Wilson: And then you go back to [clause] 15(5).
The ChairmanChairmanIt is here somewhere. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: [Clause] 15(5) is at page 10, Mr. Chairman.
The ChairmanChairman[Page] 11 in this one . . . 17(5), I am sorry. Oh, [clause] 15(5) under renewal of registration, yes. It refers back to . . . Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. Chairman, if . . .
The ChairmanChairmanYes, it is there. It is there. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: I am just getting something from the drafters, excuse me.
The ChairmanChairmanIf you are late you are late; but it does not disqualify you from registering. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And the draftsmen said something similar, actually. [Laughter] Hon. Kim N. Wilson: The draftsman just . . . if I can read, Mr. Speaker —
The ChairmanChairmanYes. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: —from the drafter who drafted this legislation, says that the person may be r emoved—that is that may and shall word —may be removed from the register, not must be removed. So it is . . . the element of “may” as you would know, …
Yes. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: —from the drafter who drafted this legislation, says that the person may be r emoved—that is that may and shall word —may be removed from the register, not must be removed. So it is . . . the element of “may” as you would know, Mr. Chairman, is a discretion, it is not an absolute bar.
The ChairmanChairmanYes. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: With that, Mr. Chairman, I would like to move that those clauses be—
The ChairmanChairmanJust one second, Minister. Any further speakers? Yes, one further speaker is the Honourable Susan Jackson.
Ms. Susan E. JacksonThank you, Mr. Chairman. Just a quick question: Wi ll this register also include people who are working in Bermuda on work permits; especially those that are multi -year work permits, like massage therapists?
The ChairmanChairmanAny further speakers? The Chair recognises the Honourable Member from constituency 4, Tinee Furbert.
Mrs. Tinee FurbertThank you, Mr. Chairman. Just on page 11, speaking to clause 15, “A pplication for registration” where it speaks to “The Registrar shall publish a notice of the registration in such a manner as the Minister shall determine.” If the Minister could speak to how frequently this is done now. …
The ChairmanChairmanYou have got to ask a question, my dear.
Mrs. Tinee FurbertSo how frequently is this done now? And then how frequently will it be done in the future?
The ChairmanChairmanMinister? Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Yes, Mr. Chairman. . . . oh, dear. I just had a senior moment . . . I wonder if . . . are they coming more frequently? I wonder if the Honourable Member from constituency 20 can repeat her question.
Ms. Susan E. JacksonI was just wondering whether the register would also contain the names of work permits on multi -year contracts. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you for that question. That is absolutely correct. Even if you are on a work permit, in order to be recognised under this designation (which you …
I was just wondering whether the register would also contain the names of work permits on multi -year contracts.
Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you for that question. That is absolutely correct. Even if you are on a work permit, in order to be recognised under this designation (which you would need so that you would be able to practice) then the work permit would be . . . I mean, the registration would acknowledge persons that are also work permit holders as well as Bermudians. Because in order to be registered . . . let us say you are a massage therapist or a physiotherapist — and we know there are a number that are on work permits —they would like to be registered . . . they would have to, there is a requirement for them to be registered under their Board. So notwithstanding that they are on a work permit, they must first also seek registration. So that would include, obviously, persons that are on work permits. And with respect to the question concerning how often the Registrar publishes this information, I will get that information and endeavour to provide it to that Honourable Member in caucus.
The ChairmanChairmanAny further speakers? Minister, move— Bermuda House of Assembly Hon. Kim N. Wilson: I would like to move clauses 11—
The ChairmanChairmanThirteen. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Sorry, [clauses] 13 through 21.
The ChairmanChairmanYes. It has been moved that clauses 13 through 21 be approved. Any objections to that? There appear to be none. Appro ved. [Motion carried: Clauses 13 through 21 passed.] Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Okay, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to proceed by moving clauses 22 through 27.
The ChairmanChairmanContinue. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. Chairman, clauses 22 through 27 concerning the Allied Health Professional Conduct Committee, the procedure for investigating complaints, the procedure for inquiry and disciplinary powers of the Council for Allied Health Professions and the establishment of a code of conduct. Clause 22 establishes the Allied …
Continue.
Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. Chairman, clauses 22 through 27 concerning the Allied Health Professional Conduct Committee, the procedure for investigating complaints, the procedure for inquiry and disciplinary powers of the Council for Allied Health Professions and the establishment of a code of conduct. Clause 22 establishes the Allied Health Pr ofessional Conduct Committee (“the Committee”). Complaints against a registered person may be made to the Committee, and it is the Committee’s functions to investigate such complaints. Schedule 3 provides for the appointment and proceedings of the Commi ttee and other matters relating to the Committee. Clause 23 provides the procedure for the i nvestigation of complaints by the Committee. The Committee informs the Council of its findings and may make such recommendations as it thinks fit to the Council, including a recommendation that no further action be taken. Before imposing any disciplinary measure, the Council must review any documents or information submitted to it by the Committee. Clause 24 provides that if, pursuant to an i nvestig ation under clause 23, the Committee places the matter before the Council for determination, the Council shall inquire into the matter. The procedure for determination of the matter by the Council is set out in this clause. Following its inquiry, the Counc il makes a decision as to whether the complaint is proved or not proved, in whole or in part, together with reasons for its decision. The registered person against whom the complaint is made may appeal to the S upreme Court against a decision of the Council within 28 days of receiving written notice thereof. Clause 25 lists the disciplinary powers of the Council. One of the disciplinary penalties that may be imposed by the Council is a civil penalty in an amount not exceeding $2,000. Clause 26 provides that where a court finds a registered person guilty of an offence and the circum-stances of the offence form, in whole or in part, the subject matter of a complaint under this Act, the court shall take into account an administrative penalty i mposed under clause 25 in respect of the complaint when sentencing the registered person. It also pr ovides that a penalty imposed under clause 25 is r ecoverable by the Crown as a debt. If a person fails to pay a penalty imposed under clause 25, the Council may direct the Regi strar to remove the person’s name from the register. Clause 27 provides that it shall be the duty of the “appropriate authority” (the relevant Board, if a Board is established for that specified profession, or the Council if no Board is established for the specified profession) to prepare, and from time to time amend, after consultation with the Council (if a Board), a code of conduct which the appropriate authority considers to be conduct and standards that are proper for regi stered practitioners and for assistants in a professional respect. The appropriate authority shall send to each registered person, to his address on the register, a copy of the Code and of any amendment made to the Code. The Code may contain guides to ethical conduct, standards of prac tice or scopes of practice. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The ChairmanChairmanAny further speakers? The Chair recognises the Honourable Member Pat Gordon- Pamplin. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I refer to page 13, clause 22 and subsection (2)(b). And basically subsection (2) requires that “complaints may be made, in accordance with subsection (5), against any …
Any further speakers? The Chair recognises the Honourable Member Pat Gordon- Pamplin. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I refer to page 13, clause 22 and subsection (2)(b). And basically subsection (2) requires that “complaints may be made, in accordance with subsection (5), against any registered person, including allegations that” (and (b) which is where I am particularly concerned) “the person is guilty of pr ofessional misconduct.” Now, presumably the burden of proof has to be more than “is guilty of” because it would seem to me that there are many people who are guilty of an awful lot of things but they have never actually gone to court, they hav e never actually been convicted. So I am wondering whether [subsection] (2)(b) as opposed to saying “the person is guilty” . . . “allegations that the person is guilty of professional misconduct” whether we should basically have a higher burden of proof for conviction. Because this is going to be something against which the Council —the PCC —the Professional Conduct Committee is going to be looking. Som etimes allegations can come and they [may not] neces-sarily have any substance. So I am just curious about that. And the other question is on page 16, in clause 24, and this is with respect of subsection (7). This is following all of the inquiries into complaints 336 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly where the Council has done whatever it has to do to follow up on a complaint that has been made. [It states], “The Council shall give written notice to the complainant and the registered person against whom a complaint is made . . . .” Sometimes complaints come in and they are anonymous complaints, and my question is, Will there be the fielding of any complaint where the complainant does not necessarily wish to identify himself for fear of further repercussions? I am just curious as to how that would . . . how that plays out. Thank you.
The ChairmanChairmanAny further speakers? Minister? Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With respect to the first question at page 13, [clause] 22(2)(b) this relates specifically to allegations. So the allegation would have to be investigated. So it is not guilt , as if the person has been finding guilt, …
Any further speakers? Minister?
Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With respect to the first question at page 13, [clause] 22(2)(b) this relates specifically to allegations. So the allegation would have to be investigated. So it is not guilt , as if the person has been finding guilt, it is an all egation that is being levied against that professional for misconduct and those allegations would o bviously be investigated. And with respect to [clause] 24(7) perhaps that Honourable Member would be prepared to just stand by and let me just get some furt her information from the drafter to answer that question. Thank you.
The ChairmanChairmanAny further speakers? There appear to be none. Minister, do you want to move those clauses? Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Yes, but before I do if I could just answer that question with respect to [clause] (7). No allegations that are made anonymously will be i nvestigated. Mr. Chairman, thank …
The ChairmanChairmanThose clauses 22 through 27. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, yes, . . . be accepted and approved.
The ChairmanChairmanYes. It has been moved that clauses 22 through 27 be approved. Are there any objections to that? There appear to be none. Approved. [Motion carried: Clauses 22 through 27 passed.] Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to proceed with moving clauses 28 through 31.
The ChairmanChairmanContinue. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. Chairman, those concern the practice of specified professions, use of professional titles, and penalties. Clause 28 provides th at a person who is a registered practitioner in a specified profession and who has been duly issued with a certificate of registr ation is entitled …
Continue. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. Chairman, those concern the practice of specified professions, use of professional titles, and penalties. Clause 28 provides th at a person who is a registered practitioner in a specified profession and who has been duly issued with a certificate of registr ation is entitled to practise in the specified profession in which he is registered in Bermuda and to demand and recover any re asonable charges for services rendered by him in that capacity. Conversely, a person cannot practise a specified profession (by whatever name called) or practise as an assistant in a specified pr ofession in Bermuda, unless he is registered in respect of that profession or authorised to practise that pr ofession under clause 32 (as a locum tenens ). A pe rson, whether or not a registered practitioner, shall not take or use, or affix to or use in connection with his premises, any name, title or description (whet her by initials or otherwise) reasonably calculated to suggest that he possesses any professional status or qualific ation as a registered practitioner other than a professional status or qualification which he in fact posses ses, and which, is indicated by particulars entered in the register in respect of him. A person who contr avenes this clause commits an offence and is liable on summary conviction to a fine of $10,000 and, in the case of a second or subsequent conviction, a fine in the sum of $20,000. Clause 29 provides that a person who is registered shall be entitled to use the word “registered” to describe the nature of his professional practice, where that practice is the practice in respect of which he is registered. Conversely, any person who: (a) uses the words “Government Registered,” or similar words, to describe the nature of his practice, being that of a specified profession, and is not registered in respect of that profession, or (b) who takes or uses any name, title, addition or description fal sely implying, or who otherwise pretends, that his name is on the register, commits an offence and is liable on summary convi ction to a fine of $10,000 and, in the case of a second or subsequent conviction, a fine of $20,000. Clause 30 provides that, if a person procures or attempts to procure the entry of any name on the register by wilfully making or producing, or causing to be made or produced, either verbally or in writing, any declaration, certificate or representation which he knows to be false, he commits an offence and is liable on summary conviction to a fine of $20,000. Clause 31 provides that, if regulations made under this Act limit the services that may be per-formed by a registered person in the course of prac-tice of a specified profession, the registered person shall limit his practice accordingly. A person who does not limit his practice accordingly commits an offence and is liable on summary conviction to a fine of $10,000.
The ChairmanChairmanAny further speakers? Bermuda House of Assembly The Chair recognises the Honourable Pat Gordon- Pamplin. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Sorry, Minister, did you include [clause] 32? I think I missed the last —
The ChairmanChairman[Clause] 31. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Okay, great.
The ChairmanChairmanThere appear to be none. Minister? Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to move [that] clauses 28 through 31 be approved.
The ChairmanChairmanIt has been moved that clauses 28 through 31 be approved. Are there any objections to that? No, there appear to be none. Approv ed. [Motion carried: Clauses 28 through 31 passed.] Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to move clauses 32 through 35 concerning …
The ChairmanChairmanContinue. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Clause 32 provides that the Council may authorise any person who is registered to practise a specified profession outside Bermuda to practise that profession as a locum [tenens] in Bermuda for a li mited period not exceed ing three months and …
Continue.
Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Clause 32 provides that the Council may authorise any person who is registered to practise a specified profession outside Bermuda to practise that profession as a locum [tenens] in Bermuda for a li mited period not exceed ing three months and subject to such conditions as the Council may prescribe. Clause 33 provides for the Minister to make regulations for the better administration of this Act and lists matters in respect of which regulations may be made. The negative resolution procedure applies to regulations made under this Act. Clause 34 provides that fees for an applic ation for registration or renewal of registration as a re gistered practitioner or as an assistant in relation to a specified profession are to be prescri bed under the Government Fees Act 1965. Clause 35 provides that the Council shall submit to the Minister, as soon as practicable after the end of each year, an annual report concerning regi stration, disciplinary proceedings and such other activ ities of the Council as the Minister may prescribe.
The ChairmanChairmanAny further speakers? The Chair recognises the Honourable Member Pat Gordon- Pamplin. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, my question was in respect of clause 32, which is on page 20. And that is with r espect to the locum tenens under [clause] 32(1) and …
Any further speakers? The Chair recognises the Honourable Member Pat Gordon- Pamplin. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, my question was in respect of clause 32, which is on page 20. And that is with r espect to the locum tenens under [clause] 32(1) and it specifies here that “the Council may authorise any person who is registered to practise a . . . profession outside Bermuda to practise that profession as a locum tenens in Bermuda for a limited period not exceeding three months.” So my question, as I alluded to in the debate, was if somebody comes in and they need to be here for four months or five months because the person— the substantive person— holding the posit ion is unable to return to work, does that person need to leave? Do we need a new locum tenens ? Or is there something that will give some . . . I guess, consideration by appeal to the Minister or some such [thing] to say that the three months is not quite enough? Let us say somebody is on maternity leave and they decide —
The ChairmanChairmanWe got the question. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: —to take an extra month or something.
The ChairmanChairmanMinister, do you want to reply to that? Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. C hairman, I think I can a nswer that best by [referring to] the Act. The Act does provide for not exceeding three months, but it also has the “and” so it has a proviso which says …
Minister, do you want to reply to that? Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. C hairman, I think I can a nswer that best by [referring to] the Act. The Act does provide for not exceeding three months, but it also has the “and” so it has a proviso which says and upon “subject to such conditions as the Council may i mpose.” So, subject to further confirmation or dis agreement from the drafter, it seems to me that this speaks to a power of the Council to impose such co nditions as they think are appropriate, given the ci rcumstances of the case.
The ChairmanChairmanWhat is requested at the time. Continue, Minister. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Yes, I just —
The ChairmanChairmanI am sorry, continue Honourable Member . Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Oh, sorry. Yes. Hey, that is a Freudian slip. That is fine, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I just th ink that it may . . . perhaps we could say, for a period not exceeding three months “or” …
I am sorry, continue Honourable Member . Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Oh, sorry. Yes. Hey, that is a Freudian slip. That is fine, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I just th ink that it may . . . perhaps we could say, for a period not exceeding three months “or” subject to such conditions as the Council may impose, as opposed to “and.” And the reason I say that is because three months is specified as “li mited.” So it does not seem like there is any flexibility there.
338 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly The Chairman: The language is there, Member. It says, “and subject to such conditions” —that is clear.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: But for a limited period. The conditions are not necessarily with r espect to the length of service, the conditions are in respect of —
The ChairmanChairmanThe conditions — Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: —the way it is reading here— Hon. Kim N. Wilson: “Such conditions as the Council imposes.” Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Okay.
The ChairmanChairmanThat is right. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: All right, so it is going to be a free- for-all here, the way I see it.
The ChairmanChairmanIt is not a free- for-all. Now let us watch the language. It is not a free- for-all. It is very clear what it means. If you need to be there four months, based on the request, that is what it says, the Council will decide. It is . . …
It is not a free- for-all. Now let us watch the language. It is not a free- for-all. It is very clear what it means. If you need to be there four months, based on the request, that is what it says, the Council will decide. It is . . . law is about common sense, you know.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Yes, but also, Mr. Chairman, we also have to look at the sp ecificity, and a specific period of time is delineated and it just seemed like it needed something else. That is just my observation—
The ChairmanChairmanMm-hmm. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: —for us not to get into challenge. And the other question that I have is with r espect to [clause] 33 on the regulations. What is going to be the mechanism by which we continue to consult industry in terms of what the updated …
Mm-hmm.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: —for us not to get into challenge. And the other question that I have is with r espect to [clause] 33 on the regulations. What is going to be the mechanism by which we continue to consult industry in terms of what the updated regulations are? I just think that . . . we pass legislation here, it passes in the other place. But we want to make sure that . . . I mean, I realise that consultation happens, but once it is all confirmed and all said and done, how are we going to keep the professionals in tune with what their requirements are based on the new regulations?
The Ch airman: Minister?
Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As it indicates in that provision, the regul ations are by negative resolution. However, given the extent of consultation that has taken place heretofore with the Allied Health Council, any r egulations that affect not only the profession if it is a specific Board and/or the Council at large, then that conversation will take place with those persons. As I indicated prev iously, this is in the beginning stages. There will be constant ongoing cons ultation with the Council and it will not stop when regulations are imposed.
The ChairmanChairmanAny further speakers? The Chair recognises the Honourable Pat Gordon- Pamplin. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you. Just for clarity . . . so the Council will have the responsibility of ensuring that the Boards and the var-ious members are apprised of what the regulations are as opposed to …
Any further speakers? The Chair recognises the Honourable Pat Gordon- Pamplin. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you. Just for clarity . . . so the Council will have the responsibility of ensuring that the Boards and the var-ious members are apprised of what the regulations are as opposed to the members having the respons ibility to find out? I just want to make sure that the Council’s duty in that regard is cl ear.
The ChairmanChairmanMinister? Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you. Mr. Chairman, I can assure that Honourable Member that the Council, the Ministry of Health, will do whatever needs to be done to ensure that the i nformation is communicated to the respective Bo ard if any regulations are passed that affect them …
Minister? Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you. Mr. Chairman, I can assure that Honourable Member that the Council, the Ministry of Health, will do whatever needs to be done to ensure that the i nformation is communicated to the respective Bo ard if any regulations are passed that affect them particularly. That communication will take place. We have the eHealthbites that go out to all members, all a sundry, that speak to regulations and different things that are happening, so that information w ill be appropriately communicated to those parties.
The ChairmanChairmanThank you. Any further speakers? Minister, you have it. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to move that clauses 32 through 35 do stand as read and approved.
The ChairmanChairmanIt has been moved that clauses 32 through 35 be approved. Are there any objections to that? There appear to be none. Approved. [Motion carried: Clauses 32 through 35 passed.] Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to move clauses 36 and 37 concerning consequential repeals, …
The ChairmanChairmanContinue. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Clause 36 repeals the Allied Health Professions Act 1973 and the Chiropractors Act 2002. It also makes a consequential amendment to the [First] Schedule to the Government Authorities Bermuda House of Assembly (Fees) Act 1971 (to add an entry for the Allied Health Professional Conduct …
Continue.
Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Clause 36 repeals the Allied Health Professions Act 1973 and the Chiropractors Act 2002. It also makes a consequential amendment to the [First] Schedule to the Government Authorities
Bermuda House of Assembly (Fees) Act 1971 (to add an entry for the Allied Health Professional Conduct Committee established under clause 22 of this Act), and to Head 3 of the Schedule to the Government Fees Regulations 1976 (to change references to section numbers to those of this Act). Mr. Chairman, in clause 37 are savings and transitional provisions . The Council appointed under the repealed Act is continued under this Act. The Boards established under the repealed Act continue under this Act —this answers the Honourable Member opposite. A complaint against a registered person that, immediately before this Act comes into operation, is before the Preliminary Proceedings Committee or the Professional Conduct Committee established under the repealed Act, or before the Council, shall con-tinue to be dealt with under the repealed Act as if this Act had not come into operation. The specified pr ofessions established under the repealed Act continue under this Act. A person who under the repealed Act, immediately before the commencement of this Act, is a registered person in a specified profession, on the coming i nto operation of this Act, continues to be a registered practitioner in the corresponding specified profession under this Act. A person practising a “new specified profession” (i.e., one that was not a specified profession under the 1973 Act) in Bermuda ma y temporarily continue to so practise without being regi stered in that profession, but the Minister is to, by notice published in the Gazette subject to the negative resolution procedure, appoint a date: (a) before which any person who at the time the noti ce comes into operation is practising a new specified profession in Bermuda must apply for registration in that specified profession; and (b) after which any other person shall not practise that profession, or be an assistant in that profession, unless he is registered under this Act. The new specified professions, Mr. Chairman, are: • acupuncturists; • chiropractors; • counsellors; • massage therapists; and • social workers. Mr. Chairman, there is an incorrect reference in clause 37(5) that actually refers to subsection (2) when it should refer to subsection (6). We will apply the slip rule, Mr. Chairman, and have this corrected in the Bill in the Senate when it is reprinted. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The ChairmanChairmanAny speakers to the clauses 36 and 37? There are none. Continue. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that clauses 36 and 37 be approved.
The ChairmanChairmanIt has been moved that clauses 36 and 37 be approved. Are there any objections to that? There appear to be none. Approved. [Motion carried: Clauses 36 and 37 passed.] Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I wish to move the Schedules concerning the list and definition of …
It has been moved that clauses 36 and 37 be approved. Are there any objections to that? There appear to be none. Approved. [Motion carried: Clauses 36 and 37 passed.]
Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I wish to move the Schedules concerning the list and definition of specified professions and prov isions in respect of the Council, its Boards and Professional Conduct Commit tee.
The ChairmanChairmanIt has been moved that the Schedules be approved. Are there any objections to that? There appear to be none. Schedules 1 through 3. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that the Schedules be approved.
The ChairmanChairmanIt has been moved that the Schedules be approved —1, 2 and 3. Any objections to that? There appear to be none. Approved. [Motion carried: Schedules 1 through 3 passed.] Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. Chairman, I move the pr eamble be approved. The C hairman: It has been moved …
It has been moved that the Schedules be approved —1, 2 and 3. Any objections to that? There appear to be none. Approved.
[Motion carried: Schedules 1 through 3 passed.] Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. Chairman, I move the pr eamble be approved. The C hairman: It has been moved that the preamble be approved. Any objections to that? There are none. Approved.
Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I now move that this Bill be reported to the House as printed.
The ChairmanChairmanIt has been moved that the Bill be reported to the House as printed. Are there any objections to that? The Bill will be reported to the House. [Motion carried: The Allied Health Professions Act 2018 was considered by a Committee of the whole House and passed without amendment.] House …
It has been moved that the Bill be reported to the House as printed. Are there any objections to that? The Bill will be reported to the House.
[Motion carried: The Allied Health Professions Act 2018 was considered by a Committee of the whole House and passed without amendment.]
House resumed at 3:25 pm
[Hon. Dennis P. Lister, Jr., Speaker, in the Chair]
REPORT OF COMMITTEE
ALLIED HEALTH PROFESSIONS ACT 2018
The SpeakerThe SpeakerGood afternoon, Members. 340 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly Are there any objections to the Allied Health Professions Act 2018 being reported to the House as printed? No objections. It has been so moved. We will now move on to the next item on the …
Good afternoon, Members. 340 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly Are there any objections to the Allied Health Professions Act 2018 being reported to the House as printed? No objections. It has been so moved. We will now move on to the next item on the Order Paper today, that item being the second reading of the Investment Funds Amendment Act 2018 in the name of the Minister of Finance. Minister, would you like to do your matter at this time?
BILL
SECOND READING
INVESTMENT FUNDS AMENDMENT ACT 2018
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Yes, please, Mr. Speaker . I move that the Bill entitled the Investment Funds Amendment Act 2018 be now read the second time.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAny objections? No objections? Minister, continue. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker , Government wishes this Honourable House to give consideration to the Bill entitled the Investment Funds Amendment Act 2018. The purpose of the Bill is to introduce the pr ovision under the Act to exempt a Class A …
Any objections? No objections? Minister, continue.
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker , Government wishes this Honourable House to give consideration to the Bill entitled the Investment Funds Amendment Act 2018. The purpose of the Bill is to introduce the pr ovision under the Act to exempt a Class A Exempt I nvestment Fund with an insurance- linked security i nvestment strategy from the requirement to appoint a custodian where certain criteria have been met. Mr. Speaker , by way of background, there are a number of techniques that have been developed to allow for the transfer of insurance risk to capital markets. ILS securities are an example of financial i nstruments, for example, derivatives or securities, which may be li nked to insurance risk. While this form of reinsurance contract is similar to traditional reinsur-ance contracts, the defining feature of these risk trans fer arrangements is the prior direct funding of the reinsurance risk exposure or loss event with funds raised through investment in capital markets. If there is a loss event, the funds are reduced when the loss is settled. If there is no loss, the investment funds plus any interest are distributed to the ILS investor. ILS transactions have provided capital market investors with an avenue to participate in the insurance and reinsurance market beyond buying company stocks. Mr. Speaker , the fundamental principle underlying the amendment to the Act is the fact that polic yholders or investors are not exposed to any additional risk where the fund has been exempted from the r equirement to appoint a custodian because the inves-tors’ proceeds shall be managed by a trustee in ac-cordance with the terms and conditions of the trust agreement governing the ILS transaction. The ILS investor is aware of this arrangement because the offering memorandum is required to provide, amongst other things, an express disclosure to all investors and proposed investors that the proceeds of the share i ssuance of the fund are held in the tr ust for the purpose of collateralising the insurance loss events linked to the securitised insurance transaction. Furthermore, the interconnectedness of the various agreements —the offering memorandum, the trust agreement, the reinsurance agreement and the investment guidelines, et cetera—self -govern the ILS transaction. Mr. Speaker , the amendment to the Act r emoved the requirement for the operator of a fund to appoint a custodian or a prime broker where the oper-ator meets such criteria as the Authority may determine and has published on its website. The criteria the Authority is currently considering could, for exa mple, require an operator to demonstrate that the fund proposes to issue insurance- linked securities to investors. Additional requirements to be m et could include an express requirement to ensure that the investment proceeds are held in trust, a trustee is appointed to manage the investment proceeds, and that the offering memorandum provides express disclosure of the same. It is intended that there will be an annual r equirement imposed on all funds availing themselves of the exemption to certify that such requirements are met. Mr. Speaker , the purpose of this proposal is to remove the duplication of custodial services which would, in essence, be prov ided by both the custodian and a trustee, should both be required to be appointed. The trustee is required to hold the proceeds of the share issuance in trust as collateral in accordance with the terms of the reinsurance contract, the rei nsurance agreement , and any investment guidelines. Therefore, in certain circumstances there is no further security or additional benefit to be provided regarding the appointment of a custodian. Existing fund operators who have been granted a Class A exemption will also be permitted to avail themselves of the custodian prime broker exemption provided they have also met the new criteria. In addition, Mr. Chairman , these funds are registered under the Proceeds of Crime—that is the AML/ATF Supervision and Enforcement Act 2008— as a non- licensed person pursuant to section 9 of said Act. The requirement to register as a non- licensed person will remain unchanged. As per the BMA’s normal custom and practice, the consultation paper — the draft Bill —was published on the 11 th of April 2018 to receive comments from a broad spectrum of the market. The House is also advised that the Authority has been meeting with industry partners since 2017
Bermuda House of Assembly and following on from that consultation there were no material issues raised. Mr. Speaker , the Bill represents a collabor ative effort between the Authority and the various i ndustry stakeholders. Accordingly, I would like to thank all of those persons within the BMA, the Attorney General’s Chamber, the Ministry of Finance, and the private sector who have assisted in the development of this Bill. Thank you, Mr. Speaker .
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Minister. Does any other Member wish to speak? We recognise the Honourable Member from constituency 23. Honourable Member , you have the floor. Hon. Patricia J. G ordon -Pamplin: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . And I thank the Minister for his . . . not just the presentation …
Thank you, Minister. Does any other Member wish to speak? We recognise the Honourable Member from constituency 23. Honourable Member , you have the floor. Hon. Patricia J. G ordon -Pamplin: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . And I thank the Minister for his . . . not just the presentation of what we can expect here on what we are doing with respect to the Bill, but also in provi ding the background for the listening public and for those interested in this legislation. Let me just say that this is a very short Bill, but the brevity of the Bill does not dictate the i mportance that the Bill holds.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMm-hmm. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: The Monetary Authority has done what the y normally do and what we expect of them —to have extensive consultations. They first issued a consultation paper in April of 2018, and I know that they had been dealing with this parti cular issue prior …
Mm-hmm. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: The Monetary Authority has done what the y normally do and what we expect of them —to have extensive consultations. They first issued a consultation paper in April of 2018, and I know that they had been dealing with this parti cular issue prior to that. So having had the level of consultation that they would normally do and that we expect of them in their prudence and their prudential operations at the BMA, we have no objection to the Bill. We support it. And there is only one small co mment that needs to be made in respect of the Commi ttee and we ar e fine with it. Thank you.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Does any other Member wish to speak? We recognise the Honourable Member from constituency 8. Honourable Member , you have the floor.
Mr. N. H. Cole SimonsThank you, Mr. Speaker . Mr. Speaker , I, like my colleague the Shadow Minister of Finance, have no objection to the legisl ation. I just have a question in regard to it being applicable to private equity placements. If I wish to establish a private equity placement, I can …
Thank you, Mr. Speaker . Mr. Speaker , I, like my colleague the Shadow Minister of Finance, have no objection to the legisl ation. I just have a question in regard to it being applicable to private equity placements. If I wish to establish a private equity placement, I can see what we are doing today would apply there, because when you have a private equity placement you have high net worth individuals. In addition, most of the time you do not pay the money upfront, you make a commitment and it is a limited number of shareholders and there are no un derlying securities as in a pool, so to speak. The partner —the general partner —for the underlying . . . for the private placement, basically, will find i nvestment opportunities directly into underlying companies. They will see an entrance plan and an exit plan and they will sell . . . well, they will follow their plan, basically, to realise their investments. And once they achieve their objectives they will then sell their position either privately or on the equity markets. So my question to the Minister is this: If I came to him as a qualified investment manager and I wanted to develop a private equity fund, or private placement fund, would this legislation apply to that as well?
The ChairmanChairmanThank you, Honourable Member . Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak? No further Members? Minister? Minister, you can take the floor now. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: I am sorry.
The ChairmanChairmanYou can have the floor now. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Thank you, sir. I have been advised that Exempt A operators can apply.
The ChairmanChairmanYou can now move us into Commi ttee. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker , I move that the Bill be committed.
The ChairmanChairmanThank you. Deputy? House in Committee at 3:35 pm [Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr., Chairman ] COMMITTEE ON BILL INVESTMENT FUNDS AMENDMENT ACT 2018
The ChairmanChairmanHonourable Member s, we are now in Committee of the whole [House] for further consider ation of the Bill entitled the Investment Funds Amendment Act 2018 . Minister, you have the floor. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Chairman, I move that clauses 1 through 3 be moved. 342 7 December …
Honourable Member s, we are now in Committee of the whole [House] for further consider ation of the Bill entitled the Investment Funds Amendment Act 2018 . Minister, you have the floor.
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Chairman, I move that clauses 1 through 3 be moved.
342 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly The Chairman: Not moved. You want to debate them?
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Sorry. [Inaudible interjection]
The ChairmanChairmanYou moved . . . I am sorry, yes, go ahead, go ahead. [Laughter]
The ChairmanChairmanI was anticipating you saying move to be approved. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: I move all three of them, yes. So Clause 1 is a standard citation clause and cites the Bill before the House as the Investment Funds Amendment Act 2018. Clause 2, Mr. Chairman, amends section 6A of …
I was anticipating you saying move to be approved.
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: I move all three of them, yes. So Clause 1 is a standard citation clause and cites the Bill before the House as the Investment Funds Amendment Act 2018. Clause 2, Mr. Chairman, amends section 6A of the principal Act discussing the Class A Exempt Fund qualification criteria by inserting the words: “An operator of a Class A Exempt Fund shall be exempt from the requirement to appoint a custodian or prime broker where it meets such criteria as the Authority may determine and has published on its website: www.bma.bm.” And clause 3, Mr. Chairman, provides for the Minis ter to cause the Act to come into operation on such a date as the Minister may determine.
The ChairmanChairmanThank you, Minister. Any further speakers? The Chair recognises the Honourable Member Pat Gordon- Pamplin. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I just wanted to point out that we seem to have with this extension to (this is under clause 2) [section 6A], [subsection] (2)(d) …
Thank you, Minister. Any further speakers? The Chair recognises the Honourable Member Pat Gordon- Pamplin. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I just wanted to point out that we seem to have with this extension to (this is under clause 2) [section 6A], [subsection] (2)(d) under the principal Act by putting “except where subsection (2A) applies” at . . . it says at t he end of that subparagraph. We have got . . . under [subparagraph] (iii) we have got an auditor “and” . . . in [subparagraph] (iv) we have a custodian or prime broker; “and” (e). So, I think we have got one “and” too many and I think it might just be drafting. I think if the draf ters can just look and tidy up the additional “and” to make it read properly.
The ChairmanChairmanAny other speakers? The Chair recognises the Honourable Hadley Cole Simons.
Mr. N. H. Cole SimonsJust a question, Mr. Chai rman. For these exempted funds, can the Minister confirm the minimum size the legislation will entertain? Because it makes no sense putting through a private exempt fund—
The ChairmanChairmanOkay. That is all you need to do. Minister, do you want to answer the question? You are not in general debate, Mr. Simons. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Chairman, can the Honourable Member repeat the question please? [Laughter]
The ChairmanChairmanPlease repeat the question, Honourable Member . [Inaudible interjections ]
Mr. N. H. Cole SimonsExactly. What is the minimum size that we are prepared to entertain for exempted funds?
The ChairmanChairmanThank you. Minister? Hon. Curtis L. Dickins on: With respect to the first question, typographical errors will be corrected by the Attorney General under section 11 of the Computer ization and Revision of Laws Act 1989. And with respect to the second question, there is no minimum size.
The ChairmanChairmanAny further speakers? There appear to be no further speakers. Minister, do you want to move these clauses, [clauses] 1 through 3? Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Chairman, I move that the preamble be approved.
The ChairmanChairmanDo the clauses first, 1 through 3, and then the preamble after that. Move clauses 1 through 3. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: I move that clauses 1 through 3 be moved.
The ChairmanChairmanBe approved. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Be approved, sorry.
The ChairmanChairmanIt has been moved that clauses 1 through 3 be approved. Bermuda House of Assembly Are there any objections to that? No objections. [Motion carried: Clauses 1 through 3 passed.]
The ChairmanChairmanNow you can do the preamble, Mini ster. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: I move that the preamble be approved.
The ChairmanChairmanIt has been moved that the preamble be approved. Any objections to that? There appear to be none. Approved. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: I move that the Bill be r eported to the House as printed or amended.
The ChairmanChairmanIt has been moved that the Bill be reported to the House as amended . . . as printed. Any objections to that? The Bill will be reported to the House. [Motion carried: The Investment Funds Amendment Act 2018 was considered by a Committee of the whole Hous e and …
It has been moved that the Bill be reported to the House as amended . . . as printed. Any objections to that? The Bill will be reported to the House. [Motion carried: The Investment Funds Amendment Act 2018 was considered by a Committee of the whole Hous e and passed without amendment.]
House resumed at 3:41 pm
[Hon. Dennis P. Lister, Jr., Speaker, in the Chair]
REPORT OF COMMITTEE
INVESTMENT FUNDS AMENDMENT ACT 2018
The SpeakerThe SpeakerGood afternoon, Members. Are there any objections to the reporting to the House of the Investment Funds Amendment Act 2018 as printed? No objections? It has been reported; so moved. We will now move on to the next item on the Order Paper today. And that item is the second …
Good afternoon, Members. Are there any objections to the reporting to the House of the Investment Funds Amendment Act 2018 as printed? No objections? It has been reported; so moved. We will now move on to the next item on the Order Paper today. And that item is the second reading of the Bermuda Monetary Authority Amendment (No. 3) Act 2018 in the name of the Minister of F inance. Minister, would you like to continue?
SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDER 29(1)
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker , I move that the Standing Order 29(1) be suspended to enable the House to proceed w ith the second reading of the Bill entitled the Bermuda Monetary Authority Amendment (No. 3) Act 2018.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAny objections to that? No objections. [Motion carried: Standing Order 29(1) suspended.]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMinister, continue. BILL SECOND READING BERMUDA MONETARY AUTHORITY AMENDMENT (NO. 3) ACT 2018 Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker , before I start I would like to acknowledge the cooperation and the indulgence of the Opposition in moving this Bill forward at a rapid speed.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker , it gives me pleasure to present to the House the Bill entitled the Bermuda Monetary Authority Amendment (No. 3) Act 2018. This Bill highlights proposed fee changes made to the Bermuda Monetary Ac t 1969 by which the Bermuda Monetary Authority …
Thank you. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker , it gives me pleasure to present to the House the Bill entitled the Bermuda Monetary Authority Amendment (No. 3) Act 2018. This Bill highlights proposed fee changes made to the Bermuda Monetary Ac t 1969 by which the Bermuda Monetary Authority has proposed a r evised fee schedule with corresponding amended fees for regulated financial institutions established under the following Acts: the Banks and Deposit Companies Act 1999, the Credit Unions Act 2010, the Insurance Act 1978, Investment Business Act 2003, the Inves tment Funds Act 2006, and the Money Service Bus iness Act 2016. Mr. Speaker , this Bill also includes the pr oposed fee changes made separately in amendments to the Banks and Deposit Compani es (Fees) Act 1975 under which the Authority has proposed to revise fees for banks and deposit companies governed by that Act. Mr. Speaker , the Authority has established a track record of success and earned a positive reput ation for itself amongst industr y stakeholders and international supranational bodies and this has also been of reputational benefit to Bermuda. However, to mai ntain its regulatory capability in the international and local marketplace and to continue to meet increasing demands of interna tional standards and expectations while continuing to deliver on strategic objectives amongst heightened complexities within supervised sectors, the Authority must further enhance its oper ations and augment its supervisory resources. Mr. Speaker , in this regard the Authority r ecently undertook a comprehensive target operating model review with the assistance of an international management consulting firm. The result of this review was a multi -year plan to effect improvements in the organisation and operati ons of the BMA. Based on this plan the Authority has already begun the process 344 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly of implementing changes through aligning its human capital with business procedures in the context of its evolving strategic priorities. Mr. Speaker , an important aspect of the target operating model review involved an analysis of the BMA’s structure and staffing levels and, in particular, an examination of the cost related to supervising di fferent elements within all regulated sectors. As part of this analysis the external cons ulting firm concluded an independent third- party benchmarking exercise in which they studied peer jurisdictions to ascertain the fees charged for comparable supervisory activities to those performed by the Authority. In addition, these costs were reviewed in relation to the staffing levels needed to effectively perform these key supervisory functions. Mr. Speaker , the output from the target operating model review and benchmarking exercise r eflected that the current fees levied by the Authority often did not reflect the supervisory effort needed to undertake the various supervisory activities it performed. Human and financial resource levels within the Authority were found to be below expected levels given the organisation’s continually expanding mandate and what it will need to achieve in the future. Furthermore, activities were identified for which the Authority charges no fees, yet the superv isory resources devoted to them are substantial. Due in part to the financial challenges facing the financial sector during the global financial crisis, which conti nued into recent years, fee increases which the A uthority might otherwise have introduced were moderated to reduce the impact on Bermuda’s financial services industry. This has, however, contributed to the Authority operating at a deficit with resultant budget shortfalls being covered from existing BMA reserves. Mr. Speaker , there are significant financial implications associated with implementing the necessary increase in staffing levels and other strategic i mprovements to the BMA’s organisation and operations recommended by the target operating model review. Specifically, annual operating costs are projected to increase to $61 million by 2020, an increase of $11.7 million over the 2017 year -end figure. The Authority incurred an operating loss of $1.6 million in 2017 and is projected to again incur an operating loss in 2018. It is therefore essential that fee structures for regulated firms be revised. Mr. Speaker , notwithstanding the need to i mplement fee increases, the Authority recognises that market conditions remain challenging in a number of regulated sectors. Accordingly, the revised fee pr oposal (now tabled) considered [that] prevailing cond itions were carefully researched and are presented with the sustainability and continued credibility of the Bermuda regulatory regime in mind. Mr. Speaker , in this context, it is proposed that certain existing fees be adjusted and that other new fees be introduced to reflect the Authority’s r e-source utilisation in discharging its ongoing supervis ory duties. Also, the basis upon which fees are charged is to be simplified so that entities will find it easier to determine what fees they need to pay. This same philosophy will be applied in the future as the Authority’s mandate expands to encompass new activities. Mr. Speaker , the revised fees proposed have been informed by four guiding principles. These pri nciples would include: 1. Fund the Authority’s operating budget and, specifically, counterbalance its projected a nnual cost increases of $11.7 million by 2020; 2. Align fees to supervisory activity by sector by adjusting fees to closely reflect resources ut ilised in regulating firms within that sector; 3. Increase discretion of supervisory teams by allowing fees to be levied for acti vities that r equire exceptional BMA resources; and 4. Maintain competitiveness via consideration of pricing relative to peer regulatory bodies to ensure Bermuda remains competitive. Mr. Speaker , it was initially intended that the revised fees be introduced ov er two years —2019 and 2020. During the consultation process and in subs equent meetings with the Authority that the Authority held with relevant industry stakeholder groups, the most prevalent comments were that the impact of the fee increase should be amel iorated by adopting a longer implementation period. As such, a three- year phase- in period— 2019, 2020, and 2021 —is now pr oposed. Insurance industries requested that the A uthority have greater flexibility regarding fees to be ap-plied in specific circumstances such as where affiliated insurers have similar risk profiles and in cases where combined application fees would otherwise be payable has also been addressed via a separate creation in the Insurance Act by a power to waive or r educe certain fees. For the relatively new corporate service pr ovider regime the Authority proposes to retain the exis ting fee structure for one more year only, with fees for that sector to be subject to an industry -specific consultation process in 2019. Mr. Speaker , in closing, I would like to thank all of those persons within the BMA, the Attorney General’s Chambers, the Ministry of Finance, and the private sector who have assisted in the development of this Bill. Thank you, Mr. Speaker .
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Minister. Does an y other Member wish to speak? We recognise the Honourable Member from constituency 23. Honourable Member , you have the floor. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . Bermuda House of Assembly Mr. Speaker , again, I apologise to the people of …
Thank you, Minister. Does an y other Member wish to speak? We recognise the Honourable Member from constituency 23. Honourable Member , you have the floor. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, Mr. Speaker .
Bermuda House of Assembly Mr. Speaker , again, I apologise to the people of Bermuda if I appear unprepared, but I appreciate the Minister’s acknowledgement that we did agree to take this up on short notice. Let me just point out —the Bermuda Monetary Authority Amendment Act —in going through this Act there is, as the Minister indicated, a staggered approach towards the implementation of new fees, some of which will come into effect in 2019 and these fees are usually due January 1 . . . or the majority of them are due January 1. And then they will have a different set of fees coming into effect in 2020 and then 2021, taking into consideration the tenuous position of the economy and the consultations that they have had with respect to the companies that are likely to be i mpacted. I do not think I necessarily have to declare an interest, in as much as I n o longer work in the insurance industry, but it is important to point out that there are a lot of the fees that have come into this Act that do relate to the insurance industry and with which I am intimately familiar and for which I will probably have some queries when we get into Committee.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMm-hmm. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: The interesting thing with this is that there are included in the fee structure here some categories and changes in strata that would have, perhaps, been better ha d we debated this after we debated the next piece of legislation, the Insurance Amendment Act. …
Mm-hmm.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: The interesting thing with this is that there are included in the fee structure here some categories and changes in strata that would have, perhaps, been better ha d we debated this after we debated the next piece of legislation, the Insurance Amendment Act. But from what I have been able to see (I will work through this) this Act provides for additional fees, but in the banking categories there are . . . we have moved from three to five different banking categories. So we have got fees where we do not actually see the . . . necessarily . . . I am sorry, the categories, as far as banking is concerned, we have the implementation of fees before I actually saw that ther e was an effective delineation of these additional banking categories. There are also significant fees that are being addressed in respect of run- off general business, which is a new category. Historically, companies would operate and depending on what their capital and surplus is they would then carry on, and in carr ying on their business, if that business should happen to go into run- off, then they are subjected to the fee that is determined by the category, whether they be a Class A, B, C . . . Class 1, 2, 3, 4. The category would determine the fees. There is a specific segment within these fees now that refer to a special run- off category. And while I understand fully the importance of having a structure within the Monetary Authority that monitors and that regulates run- off companies, when I looked at the fees, the fees in some instances, notwithstanding there has been consultation, but I think it is important to just point out the observations that the fees relating to some of these are, in fact, quit e large and that what could conceivably happen is when companies go into run- off, having to pay such a large amount of fee from a run- off situation where they are not effectively making the underwriting profits that they normally would have done under norm al oper ations, that these fees . . . that the companies can do what has been done, as I have experienced before, is to take the run- off portion out of Bermuda. And that effectively impacts the jobs that might otherwise be able to be enjoyed by the Bermudians who work for these companies because it could be deemed that it is more efficacious to utilise a different jurisdiction in order to be able to manage these run- off funds. So I am just a little concerned, especially gi ven the fact that the US, in partic ular, under this new different administration has seemed to have made it a little bit more attractive for companies to relocate on-shore. So what we do not want to do is to price ourselves out of the market when an ongoing concern has obviously a greater ne ed— in my estimation —has a greater need for regulation than does a company that has been regulated to the hilt and is now simply managing its run- off book. So I was just a little concerned about that. As I said, there is a . . . this Bill provides for addit ional banking categories, there is a run- off for general business (which has been segregated out), there are fees when it comes to issuing certificates. That is one of the biggest bugbears that exists within the Monetary Authority, in my estimation, is that cl ients at times require notification or certification that a corporation is compliant with whatever their respons ibilities are as far as the Monetary Authority is concerned. And what happens then is that the BMA is required to issue a certificate to say that this company is in compliance—say that they have filed their r eturns, they have put in their CISSAs, that they have done all the things that are necessary to be done. What happens is if you get two clients who ask you for a certificate, you have to g et two letters from the BMA. And sometimes those requests come in at the same time and when those requests come in they literally have to print two certificates instead of one on the given date, but you are charged at the same price for certificate number two as you are for certificate num-ber one. It has always been something that has bugged me and while the amount is insignificant, it is the principle that, you know, obtains here. We look also at some of the fees as they r elate to extensions that are requi red because you have . . . under the new regime and the new additional structures, many companies have been required to hire additional staff in order to meet the deadlines that were necessary for the BMA. That is fine if . . . you know, recognising that w e are required, especially with the OECD and the EU and everybody else breathing down our necks, we know that we have to comply. And I know that the BMA has to be effectively staffed in order to ensure that they have the proper 346 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly oversight capabilities and r egulatory authority capabil ities as is necessary in order to fulfil the responsibilities that they have. But I think that . . . I know that they have staggered these fees over a three- year period of time from 2019, 2020, and 2021. The questions that we hav e, obviously, are such that when we have a situation where a company —and there is a category of fees — in a run- off environment, if that company has an extensive change of its responsibilities as well as its r esulting capital and surplus and the like as a result of being in run- off, what run- off precipitates are signif icant commutations of books of business. And if there is a commutation, then it may be difficult to determine from one year to the next a comparative asset base for what is left of the shell, if I can put it that way, when a company goes into run- off. So my question is that we are having these fees appended to a company which goes into run- off, which may differ significantly from year to year. Now there are bands within the new fee structure tha t changes the fee from what your capital and surplus may have been . . . and I think it actually moves from capital and surplus and I think it goes to . . . if I can remember the terminology . . . give me one second . . . On the run- off . . . it does not w ork on the capital and surplus, and what the company is required to hold by way of confirmation to meeting certain statutory and solvency ratios, but, rather, it starts to look at what the gross reserves are and what the assets are in relation to gross res erves. So these can change dramatically from year to year, as I said, given the advent of the . . . not even the advent, but the applic ation of commutations. And I just wanted to know that we are not finding a company in a situation where their reserves have changed dramatically from year to year; hence, their fees will have to change dramatically from year to year. Or, if the fees are going to stay where they are, are we overcharging? That would be the question and concern that I have. Some of the clauses, as I said, it is probably better to get into them when we go into the actual Committee. But when I look at some of the variances, it would seem to me that some of the new bands that have been put in place, whereas you might have had, historically, that the company might have assets that exceed $35 million, and now they have put in an add itional category from $35 million to $100 million, and then over $100 million, when you are talking about the fees that are being charged for the registration fees, and for the oversight that is required for lots of these companies. I am just curious, because when a company goes up the ladder in terms of the business that it is writing and the like, I would anticipate that the audit fees are also going to go up. So, we are now in a sit uation where the audit fees will increase exponentially as well as the regulatory fees going up at the same time. Now, I know, as I said earlier in the other debate, that the Monetary Authority are very good when it comes to consultation, and they put out consultation papers, and they put out position papers, and they put out papers on the papers that they put out because they want to make sure that companies are fully a pprised of what their responsibilities are. But I just want us to guard against finding ourselves in a situation where a different jurisdiction starts to look more attrac-tive, especially in the run- off business. Because you find that the run- off business has been a relatively reliable aspect where local staff, who have bec ome familiar with the operations of those companies, find their niche. If we find that those companies are now moving, because it is more attractive to operate in a different jurisdiction, then we are going to be negativ ely impacting our employment base. So those are some of the concerns that I have. Obviously, as I said, we support the Monetary Authority and what it is required to do, primarily b ecause we would be lost as a jurisdiction. We rely on their oversight and we rely on them to keep our co mpanies in line so that we do not fall afoul of the international regulators who would have us . . . you know, who would be keeping a watchful eye over every step that we make. So, we certainly support the legislation. I did wish to speak, as I said, more specifi cally to some of the fees where I have some questions, but outside of that I just wanted to, again, thank the Mini ster for his presentation and for acknowledging the fact that we have been required to do this on short notice, and we appreciate that acknowl edgment. Thank you.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Member. Does any other Member wish to speak? I now recognise the Honourable Member from constituency 30. Honourable Member, the Deputy Opposition Leader, you have the floor.
Ms. Leah K. ScottThank you, Mr. Speaker, I will not be long. First of all, I would like to say that if I were the Minister for Finance, or Jeremy Cox, I would be sending a bill to the OECD, FATF, and the EU for the regulatory burden that they have imposed upon …
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, I will not be long. First of all, I would like to say that if I were the Minister for Finance, or Jeremy Cox, I would be sending a bill to the OECD, FATF, and the EU for the regulatory burden that they have imposed upon us as a jurisdiction. A lot of what is going on—
The SpeakerThe SpeakerI think you will have a lot of agreement on that one from here. [Laughter and desk thumping] Bermuda House of Assembly Ms. Leah K. Scott: A lot of what is happening in Bermuda is because of —and I probably should not say it, but I will say it—their jealousy …
I think you will have a lot of agreement on that one from here.
[Laughter and desk thumping]
Bermuda House of Assembly Ms. Leah K. Scott: A lot of what is happening in Bermuda is because of —and I probably should not say it, but I will say it—their jealousy of us as a juri sdiction to be able to maintain a reputation that causes people to want to come here to do business. We are able to manag e ourselves.
Hon. Walter H. Roban: They are jealous. [Inaudible interjections]
Ms. Leah K. ScottThank you, Deputy Premier. And, you know, it is unfortunate that the EU can have such a level of extraterritorial reach where we have to now amend our tax system, we have to impose charges on companies that are servicing people who want to directly invest in Bermuda. I think …
Thank you, Deputy Premier. And, you know, it is unfortunate that the EU can have such a level of extraterritorial reach where we have to now amend our tax system, we have to impose charges on companies that are servicing people who want to directly invest in Bermuda. I think it is unfortunate. What I got up to say, though, was not that, because I will save that for the debate next week. What I wanted to s ay was thank you to the Minister of Finance and to the BMA. This is one of the few papers that I can say that industry consultation has been considered and it has been incorporated. So I would like to say thank you to the BMA for the trust industry where t he phasing -in of the fees will be over a three- year period, as opposed to a two- year period. And for corporate service providers where the level of fees will be retained at the 2018 level, there will be consultation in 2019 with the new fee schedule being imposed in 2020. So, I was happy with the consultation. I was happy with the steps that the BMA took, and I would like to thank the members of the BMA and the Minister of Finance for a coordinated effort. Thank you.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member. Does any other Member wish to speak? No other Member? Minister. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In response to my honourable colleague’s question about the potential concerns around folks leaving inasmuch as they are winding down, I will just remind her that the …
Thank you, Honourable Member. Does any other Member wish to speak? No other Member? Minister.
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In response to my honourable colleague’s question about the potential concerns around folks leaving inasmuch as they are winding down, I will just remind her that the BMA sought the assistance of a leading consulting firm as they went about doing a review of the target operating model. As you will appreciate, my powers as Minister, with respect to the operations of the BMA, are very limited, as they should be. So, I have left it up to the BMA profession-als to decide how to develop the pricing for the ser-vices that they provide. I am sure that they have done a proper job of assessing the risk associated with the new fee schedule. With that said, I would like to move that the Bill be committed.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Minister. Deputy, would you like to take the Chair? House in Committee at 4:07 pm [Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr., Chairman] COMMITTEE ON BILL BERMUDA MONETARY AUTHORITY AMENDMENT (NO. 3) ACT 2018
The ChairmanChairmanHonourable Members, we are now in Committee of the whole [House] for further consider ation of the Bill entitled Bermuda Monetary Authority Amendment (No. 3) Act 2018 . Minister, you have the floor. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Chairman, t his Bill seeks to repeal and replace the Fourth Schedule …
Honourable Members, we are now in Committee of the whole [House] for further consider ation of the Bill entitled Bermuda Monetary Authority Amendment (No. 3) Act 2018 . Minister, you have the floor. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Chairman, t his Bill seeks to repeal and replace the Fourth Schedule to the Bermuda Monetary Authority Act 1969 (the “pri ncipal Act”) provi ding for amongst other things, annual and licensing fees payable under the Insurance Act 1978, Banks and Deposit Companies Act 1999, Trusts (Regulation of Trust Business) Act 2001, Investment Business Act 2003, Investment Funds Act 2006, Cre dit Unions Act 2010, Corporate Service Provider Bus iness Act 2012, and Money Service Business Act 2016. Furthermore, the Bill provides for consequential amendments to the Banks and Deposit Companies (Fees) Act 1975 and the Investment Funds Act 2006. Mr. Chairman, I would like to move clauses 1 and 2, please.
The ChairmanChairmanYes, you may move clauses 1 and 2. Continue. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Clause 1 provides a cit ation for the Bill. Clause 2 amends the principal Act by repealing and substituting the Fourth Schedule to the princ ipal Act. The substituted Fourth Schedule provides for fees payable under Part …
Yes, you may move clauses 1 and 2. Continue.
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Clause 1 provides a cit ation for the Bill. Clause 2 amends the principal Act by repealing and substituting the Fourth Schedule to the princ ipal Act. The substituted Fourth Schedule provides for fees payable under Part A, for the period 1 January 2019 to 31 December 2019; Part B, for the period 1 January 2020 to 31 December 2020; and Part C, as from 1 January 2021.
The ChairmanChairmanThank you, Minister. Any further speakers to clauses 1 and 2? The Chair recognises the Honourable Member Pat Gordon- Pamplin. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the Minister had made reference in clause 2 to the Fourth S chedule, so I would like to refer …
The ChairmanChairmanMm-hmm. 348 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: So they are r epealing the existing Fourth Schedule and replacing it with this new Fourth Schedule, with this new schedule of fees coming into effect for 2019, and then a sepa-rate . …
The ChairmanChairmanWhat page? Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin : This is the Fourth Schedule, which starts on page 3. So, I am speaking now generally to clause 2, that the Minister just r eferred to, which was on page 2. But the [repeal and replacement of the] Fourth Schedule starts on …
What page?
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin : This is the Fourth Schedule, which starts on page 3. So, I am speaking now generally to clause 2, that the Minister just r eferred to, which was on page 2. But the [repeal and replacement of the] Fourth Schedule starts on page 3. So I just wondered if t he Minister could give us a little bit of breakdown. The “Application for a l icence . . .” This is on page 3 under “Banks and D eposit Companies [Act 1999].” There are two additional bands. We used to have three bands, effectively, for banks. We now have gone into two additional bands. Is the intent that those additional bands for banks . . . are we looking to expand our banking industry, or are we just revamping the existing banks that we have? In other words, I realise that they have to make provision for eventualities, but I am just wondering whether they foresee additions here in that regard. Page 8, of Schedule [1] which . . . starting at the bottom of page 7, the “application for approval [of an] eligible capital instrument under section 6C:” of the Act. This is in the Insurance Act now; this moves over to the Insurance Act. So the application for a pproval of an eligible capital instrument under section 6C; this is new. And it is on a case -by-case basis. My question simply is: It says the application is made hereunder . . . (at the top of page 8). “Applic ations made hereunder shall be subject to a sliding scale fee payment . . .” and my question is, When does the applicant know . . . when will the applicant know when they have been . . . you know, what their fee is going to be? Because their fee is anywhere between [$]10[,000] and [$]130,000 in the first instance, and on a case- by-case basis between $10[,000] and $200,000. So I just want to know, When do they know where they fall and what their fees ar e likely to be? On that same page, on Class 3A, C and D insurers , this is for penalties . . . I am sorry, for the excess that is paid when filings are late. There is a plethora of new fees that are being implemented here. They are basically enhanced as the longer you take to pay, the more you are going to have to pay. I think that this is a good thing. I just wanted to let the Mini ster know that we support that. Because you can find yourself having to pay $1,500 for late filing, but then if you pass the deadline, you have to pay more. And, certainly, we appreciate that this has been included. My question in the general debate in respect of audit fees, this is on page 10, when we start to look at this new . . . carrying on general business, they have increas ed the number of bands which exist. It used to be anything over [$]35 million, and now it is [$]35 [million] to and over $100 million. And I am just wondering, with respect to the audit fees that are now likely to be imposed upon these companies who fall into that second band, now that there is a separate band, it is going to require more auditing. I was just curious about that. There also is an inconsistency (it appeared) with the band . . . hmm. Okay. Items (D) and (E) under [3] (a) with respect to . . . this is the registration for $35 million to $100 million, and then exceeding $100 million. And I am showing that there is an inconsisten-cy. I see no difference in the band cost. So, I guess my question is, If there is nothing different in the cost of the b and (D), and this is in the middle of the page [10], in the cost of band (D) which is exceeding $35 million but not exceeding $100 million, and then that is $20,000 for the registration fee. And then exceeding $100 million is also $20,000. So I am just cur ious as to whether that second $20,000 is an error or whether it was intended that the fee remain the same. Otherwise, we could just put straight over $35 million. You know, that just seemed to be something that needed to be questioned. I am not certain ho w far . . . yes, okay. I can go right the way through. I note that there is a new structure of insurance manager and the methodology by which the new manager’s fees are being charged, the insurance managed, the various classes. I accept the fact that this has been as a result of consultation, so I appreciate it. It just seems like there are lots of extra layers that have come in as a result. I am going to go over to page 15, and that is at the bottom. This is Part A 2019, at the bottom, under item [7 (vi)] (B), “Conducting unrestricted special purpose business .” The cost of which is going to be $7,000, and [also (A)], Restricted special purpose business. These are two new categories. But underneath [that] it has (B)( vii), Class A insurer , is $11,500, and [underneath that] it has (vii) Class A insurer , is $11,500. It has the same reference. It just seems that something may have been overlooked there because it is duplicated. As I said earlier, there is a whole different runoff general business and the series of fees relating to that, and I have expressed my concern relating to an insurer registered to carry on run- off general business. As I said, I think the fees . . . I accept the Minister has indicated that these fees are . . . have been consulted, but they seem tremendously high and I am concerned for the impact on jobs in that particular level.
The ChairmanChairmanHonourable Member, I just want you to pause there and get an answer. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Okay. Sure.
The ChairmanChairmanMinister, you want to answer there? And then you can continue. Bermuda House of Assembly Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will take them in the order in which they were asked. In the first instance, the bands reflect the gro wing complexity of the existing banks …
Minister, you want to answer there? And then you can continue.
Bermuda House of Assembly Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will take them in the order in which they were asked. In the first instance, the bands reflect the gro wing complexity of the existing banks as they grow their asset basis. With respect to guidance, I guess the applic ation fees on a . . . I think the language in the Act that was tabled speaks to on a case- by-case basis. So guidance would be provided when the BMA has committed to the industry. Then I think on page 10 there was a question about audit fees. The BMA does not drive audit fees. Those fees are something that is negotiated between the issuer and its auditors. I am waiting for some guidance on the other question, but I sense by the look on your f ace that you have a follow -up, or you need some clarity. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The ChairmanChairmanMm-hmm. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: I can continue?
The ChairmanChairmanContinue, yes. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: I just wanted to make clear that I was not suggesting that the BMA is responsible for the audit fees. What I am suggesting is that as the complexities of the organisations grow, the auditor’s responsibilities will also grow; hence, engendering the necessi …
Continue, yes. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: I just wanted to make clear that I was not suggesting that the BMA is responsible for the audit fees. What I am suggesting is that as the complexities of the organisations grow, the auditor’s responsibilities will also grow; hence, engendering the necessi ty for higher audit fees. So when you have higher audit fees, and you also have higher BMA fees for registering or regulating that particular class of business, it was just those additional fees, not the . . . you know, I recognise that the BMA does not generate audit fees.
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: I guess in response to that, I think, issuers will appreciate that, given the complexities of their business, this is going to result in an attendant higher fees , whether they be for the auditor and/or the regulator. I think you would be challenged, like I would be, to justify why, in the provision of a service for a complicated entity, we should charge less, because another service provider is also char ging more. I think the target operating model review has concluded that there are instances when the BMA is actually undercharging for the services that it is providing. And I would think that all of us who are f ocused on matters fiscal, would want to be sure that we are getting good value for the services we ar e provi ding. So inasmuch as they have to charge more because that is what it costs to provide the service, I think we can all kind of fully endorse that.
The ChairmanChairmanHonourable Member GordonPamplin. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Yes, I was just waiting, Mr. Chairman, on the response in terms of the—
The ChairmanChairmanYou can continue then. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Okay. All right, so I will continue here. On page 22, on Digital Assets Business Act [2018], Grant of a licence to carry on digit al asset business , it starts on [page] 22, respecting the grant of a licence, (a) …
You can continue then.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Okay. All right, so I will continue here. On page 22, on Digital Assets Business Act [2018], Grant of a licence to carry on digit al asset business , it starts on [page] 22, respecting the grant of a licence, (a) and (b) are on [page] 22. When we get over to (c) [on page 23], it says that the fee payable by a licensed undertaking carrying on [ digital asset business ] activity of maintaining custody of client pr ivate keys , it has a [subparagraph] (i). But in the pri ncipal Act there is also a [subparagraph] (ii) which has been left out here. But when we switch over the page, [subparagraph] (ii) comes in on page 25, in t he grant of a licence. So I am just curious as to why we have that inconsistency where in 2(c)(i) is included, on page 23, [and] on page 25, 3(c)(i) is included, but also there is a (ii). So they took that (ii) out from the page before. So I am just wondering whether that was an oversight or whether that was intended to be? I could not quite understand why that happened. So those were basically my concerns and questions that I had.
The ChairmanChairmanOkay. Minister? Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: I was just wait ing for some guidance from the technical folks. [Pause] Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Okay. So on page 11, with respect to page 11, item (A), on some fees they have made concessions. And then with respect to page 12, the …
Okay. Minister?
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: I was just wait ing for some guidance from the technical folks. [Pause]
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Okay. So on page 11, with respect to page 11, item (A), on some fees they have made concessions. And then with respect to page 12, the run- off answer . . . the run- off iss ue required –– many times [the] same amount of supervisory effort or resources [was required] and that is why the costs are what they are. And then with respect the observation on page 22, that could be an oversight.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Just before you go on, Mr. Chairman—
The ChairmanChairmanOne second, Minister. Go ahead. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Sorry. Just before you go on to [page] 22 ( so I can tick this off ), you said that there are concessions. This is on page 10; you said page 11. But I am speaking to page 10. And …
One second, Minister. Go ahead.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Sorry. Just before you go on to [page] 22 ( so I can tick this off ), you said that there are concessions. This is on page 10; you said page 11. But I am speaking to page 10. And it was on page 10 where the fee in relation —
350 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly The Chairman: For (D) and (E), right?
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Yes, where (D) and (E) were the same, the $35 million to $100 million and over $100 million, the fees w ere the same. So is this a concession which has been made that the over $100 million will be the same as $35 [million] to $100 [million]?
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: The guidance I am getting is that your point has been noted.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pampl in: Oh, okay. So there is probably a different fee that should be in there? Okay. So, it was worth staying out of bed last night,
Mr. Chairman.
The ChairmanWell, yes, yes indeed. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: It shows how e xciting my life is. [Laughter]
The ChairmanChairmanYes. Yes, it is. It seems is very exci ting. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: As well as now on page 15, the duplication that is there with respect —
The ChairmanChairmanClass A. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Class A insurer. I think t hat is probably just an oversight which needs to be corrected.
The ChairmanChairmanMinister, is it the same for page 15? Down at the bottom? Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: It would appear so, sir.
The ChairmanChairmanOkay. Any further speakers? Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Just the final question on the last point that I had. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: The question with respect to page 22, I think, digital assets business, I guess, item (c). I am being told that this could be an oversight …
Okay. Any further speakers? Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Just the final question on the last point that I had. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: The question with respect to page 22, I think, digital assets business, I guess, item (c). I am being told that this could be an oversight which we will check.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Sorry?
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: It could be an oversight. We have to check it; we will review it.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Okay. I think that this handles the queries that I have specifically on the Schedules. I did not literally have the time to go into the 2020 fees or the 2021 fees.
The ChairmanChairmanMm-hmm. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: But I just thought that the observations that we made in respect to the 2019 fees, which are imminent, were more important. And if there are other challenges that come up as I further investigate and delve into it, I will certainly point it …
Mm-hmm.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: But I just thought that the observations that we made in respect to the 2019 fees, which are imminent, were more important. And if there are other challenges that come up as I further investigate and delve into it, I will certainly point it out to the Minister and to the technical officers so we can get it right.
The ChairmanChairmanThank you, Member. Minister. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Thank you, Member, I appreciate that. Mr. Chairman, I would like to move now clauses 3, 4 and 5.
The ChairmanChairmanYou want to approve [clauses] 1 and 2? Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Oh, sorry. I move that we approve clauses 1 and 2.
The ChairmanChairmanIt has been moved that clauses 1 and 2 be approved. Any objection to that? There appear to be none. Approved. [Motion carried: Clauses 1 and 2 passed.] Hon. Curtis L. Di ckinson: Mr. Chairman?
The ChairmanChairmanMm-hmm. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Chairman, I would like to move clauses 3, 4 and 5 now, please.
The ChairmanChairmanContinue. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Clause 3 provides for consequential amendments to the Banks and Deposit Companies (Fees) Act 1975. The clause amends the Banks and Deposit Companies (Fees) Act [1975] by repealing and substituting the Second Schedule to that Act. The substituted Second Schedule provides for fees payable under …
Continue. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Clause 3 provides for consequential amendments to the Banks and Deposit Companies (Fees) Act 1975. The clause amends the Banks and Deposit Companies (Fees) Act [1975] by repealing and substituting the Second Schedule to that Act. The substituted Second Schedule provides for fees payable under Part A, for the period 1 J anuary 2019 to 31 December 2019; Part B, for the period 1 January 2020 to 31 December 2020; and Part C, as from 1 January 2021. Clause 4 provides for consequential amendments to the Investment Funds Act 2006. Clause 5 provides for the Act to come into operation on 1 January 2019, subject to subclauses (3)
Bermuda House of Assembly and (4) of clause 2 and subclauses (3) and (4) of clause 3 of the Bill.
The ChairmanChairmanHonourable Member [Pat] GordonPamplin. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As indicated just a little earlier, that it was not possible for me to go into Part B or Part C. But I will certainly undertake to do so from my perspective so if there are any …
Honourable Member [Pat] GordonPamplin. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As indicated just a little earlier, that it was not possible for me to go into Part B or Part C. But I will certainly undertake to do so from my perspective so if there are any concerns I certainly will point it out to the Minister so he can pass it on to the technical off icers.
The ChairmanChairmanThank you. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: So I have no objections to clauses 3 or 4.
The ChairmanChairmanMinister. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would just like to advise the Member that inconsistencies in the section references will be corrected by the Attorney General’s Chambers under the Computerization and [Revision] of Laws Act 1989. I thank you for your diligence in reading through the …
Minister.
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would just like to advise the Member that inconsistencies in the section references will be corrected by the Attorney General’s Chambers under the Computerization and [Revision] of Laws Act 1989. I thank you for your diligence in reading through the Schedules and identifying the typos. Mr. Chairman, I move that clauses 3, 4 and 5 be approved.
The ChairmanChairmanIt has been moved that clauses 3, 4 and 5 be approved. Are there any objections? There appear to be none. Approved. [Motion carried: Clauses 3, 4, 5 passed.] Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Chairman, I move that the preamble be approved. The Deputy Clerk: The two Schedules.
The ChairmanChairmanThe Schedules first, there are two. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: I’m sorry? The Deputy Clerk: Move the two Schedules. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Well, the Schedules are part of the clauses 2 and 3.
The ChairmanChairmanWell, you have to move them separately. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Move them separately? Okay. Whirr . . . rewind tape. Okay. I move that the Schedules be approved.
The ChairmanChairmanSchedules 1 and 2. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Yes. Schedules 1 and 2.
The ChairmanChairmanIt has been moved that Schedules 1 and 2 be approved. Are there any objections to that? No objections. Approved. [Motion carried: Schedules 1 and 2 passed.] The Chai rman: Now you can move the preamble. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: I move that the preamble be approved.
The ChairmanChairmanIt has been moved that the preamble be approved. Are there any objections to that? There appear to be none. Approved. Hon. Curtis L. Di ckinson: I move that the Bill be r eported to the House as printed, or amended. The Deputy Clerk: As printed.
The ChairmanChairmanIt has been moved that the Bill be reported to the House as printed. Any objections to that? There appear to be none. The Bill will be reported to the House as printed. [Motion carried: The Bermuda Monetary Authority Amendment (No. 3) Act 2018 was considered by a Committee of …
The ChairmanChairmanWhat’s that? Go ahead. The Deputy Clerk: He has already said that there will be typos which will be corrected by Chambers.
The ChairmanChairmanYes, under that 1989 Act. House resumed at 4 :29 pm [Hon. Dennis P. Lister, Jr., Speaker, in the Chair] REPORT OF COMMITTEE 352 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly BERMUDA MONETARY AUTHORITY AMENDMENT (NO. 3) ACT 2018
The SpeakerThe SpeakerGood afternoon, Members. Members, are there any objections to the Bermuda Monetary Authority Amendment (No. 3) Act 2018 being reported to the House as printed?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerNo. So moved. It has been reported. That now moves us on to the next item on the Order Paper which is the second reading of the Insur-ance Amendment (No. 3) Act 2018 in the name of the Minister of Finance. Minister. SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDER 29(1) Hon. Curtis L. …
No. So moved. It has been reported. That now moves us on to the next item on the Order Paper which is the second reading of the Insur-ance Amendment (No. 3) Act 2018 in the name of the Minister of Finance. Minister.
SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDER 29(1)
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker, I move that the Standing Order 29(1) be suspended to enable the House to proceed with the second reading of the Bill entitled Insurance Amendment (No. 3) Act 2018.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAny objections? No objections. Proceed. [Motion carried: Standing Order 29(1) was suspended.] BILL SECOND READING INSURANCE AMENDMENT (NO. 3) ACT 2018 Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker, it gives me pleasure to present to this House the Bill entitled I nsurance Amendment (No. 3) Act 2018. This Bill highlights the …
Any objections? No objections. Proceed.
[Motion carried: Standing Order 29(1) was suspended.]
BILL
SECOND READING
INSURANCE AMENDMENT (NO. 3) ACT 2018
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker, it gives me pleasure to present to this House the Bill entitled I nsurance Amendment (No. 3) Act 2018. This Bill highlights the proposed changes to the Insurance Act 1978 [ the “principal Act” ] that enables the BMA to put in place a new reporting fram ework for registered insurance agents and insurance brokers, otherwise known as “insurance intermediar-ies.” Mr. Speaker, the BMA is a founding member of the International Association of Insurance Superv isors [IAIS] and continues to be an active participant within this international regulatory body to the benefit of both the Bermuda insurance sector and the BMA supervisory regime. The Authority is committed to ensuring that the regulatory regime that governs insurance registrants is suitably aligned with the core pri nciples set down by the IAIS through making necessary enhancements to the local laws and regulatio ns. Mr. Speaker, it is to this end that the Authority proposes to take steps to enhance the regulatory r e-gime for insurance agents and brokers pursuant to the following IAIS core principles. ICP 18, which relates to the supervision of insurance intermediaries, requires that insurance s upervisors to set and enforce requirements for the conduct of insurance intermediaries, in order that they conduct business in a professional and transparent manner. ICP 19, which relates to the conduct of bus iness, requires an insurance supervisory to ensure that insurers and intermediaries in their conduct of insurance business treat customers fairly both before a contract is entered into and through to the point at which all obligations under a contract have bee n sati sfied. ICP 21, which deals with countering fraud in insurance, requires an insurance supervisor to ensure that insurers and intermediaries take effective measures to deter, prevent, detect, report and remedy fraud in insurance. ICP 22, which speak s to anti -money laundering and combating the financing of terrorism, makes it mandatory for a supervisor to ensure insurers and intermediaries take effective measures to combat money laundering and the financing of terrorism. ICP 22 also provides that a su pervisor must take effective measures to combat money laundering and the f inanc ing of terrorism. Mr. Speaker, the House will note that these amendments pertaining to the insurance agents and brokers are equivalent to the requirements put in place for insurance managers in 2015. Mr. Speaker, it is further proposed to amend the Insurance Act 1978 by making it mandatory for registered insurance agents and brokers to file an annual return with the Authority covering the following matters: • detailed corporate data of the intermediary and its clients; • corporate governance data; • training; • integrity data; • cyber risk; and • anti-money laundering and countering the f inancing of terrorism risk data. There are specific provisions in the amendment that are now to apply t o insurance brokers and agents, such as prudential rules, principal office and payment of fees. Mr. Speaker, industry participants were co nsulted on these proposed amendments from the per iod commencing August 2018 ending 7 September 2018. There were no mat erial objections to the pr oposal. Mr. Speaker, the Bill also makes further amendments to the Insurance Act 1978 by providing for new subcategory definitions, special purpose bus iness, and for the registration of corporate bodies that may carry on run- off insurance business.
Bermuda House of Assembly Mr. Speaker, the proposed amendment will become quite clear to Members when we are in Committee. Mr. Speaker, in closing, I would like to thank all of those persons within the Bermuda Monetary Authority, the Attorney General’s Chambers, the Ministry of Finance, and the private sector who have assisted with the development of this Bill. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Minister. Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak? We recognise the Honourable Member from const ituency 23. Honourable Member GordonPamplin, you have the floor. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this Bill actually manifests the observation I had when we did the …
Thank you, Minister. Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak? We recognise the Honourable Member from const ituency 23. Honourable Member GordonPamplin, you have the floor.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this Bill actually manifests the observation I had when we did the last one in terms of this now give rise to the ca tegories for which we have already passed the fees.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMm-hmm. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: So that is why I said I thought it would it would have been more helpful if we had debated this first. So we put the structures in place and then we know what the fees are for those structures. With that said, because …
Mm-hmm. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: So that is why I said I thought it would it would have been more helpful if we had debated this first. So we put the structures in place and then we know what the fees are for those structures. With that said, because I can multitask, because I am a woman and that is the way we do things —
The SpeakerThe SpeakerWell, well, well — Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: —I was able to—
The SpeakerThe SpeakerNow we are all equal Members in this House whether you wear a skirt or pants. We are all equal. [Laughter] Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Well, well, well, Mr. Speaker, I do not want you to mislead the House. [Laughter] Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: However, the concern that …
Now we are all equal Members in this House whether you wear a skirt or pants. We are all equal.
[Laughter]
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Well, well, well, Mr. Speaker, I do not want you to mislead the House.
[Laughter]
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: However, the concern that I have in this Bill is with respect to two areas. One of which is the situation when it comes to an application to reduce or to request an exemption from payment and you make an application. You apply to the Authority, and if the Authority says no, it says to write again to the Authority with a little bit more detail. It seems to me like we are tak ing two bites of the cherry when it could be more efficient if the first application to the Authority set out the terms and conditions under which the request is being made, and this is for the reduction or exemption from payment of fees. That, instead of having to write to the Author ity and then they come back and say no, then you write back to them, and they say, Give us more detail, it would seem to me to be more efficient to write with all the detail first and say what the challenge is. If the Authori ty then says no, then instead of going back to have Caesar appealing unto Caesar, instead of saying, you know, The Authority said no, we are going to go back to the Authority. It seems to me that this is an ideal opportunity for us to be able to harmonise our tribunals that we have, and that second application may be able to be made to a tribunal, as opposed to going back to the Authority who has a lready told you no at the outset. It just seems like it is counterintuitive. The other concern that I have is with respect to cyber risk. There are significant inclusions in this new requirement for cyber risk. And I think that all of us know, I think that anybody who has even been half awake in the course of the last year and a half, two years, will know the cha llenge that we have seen, certainly in the United States with the involvement of Russia in the 2016 elections and the grief that this has caused to —
The SpeakerThe SpeakerDonald Trump said that it is not true. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: —that infrastructure. He says there is no collusion.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerTrump says that it is not true though. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: And whether there was collusion or not, I said “involvement” and I think it has already been established that involvement was there. And that involvement is as a result of cyber threats.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMm-hmm. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Cyber risks are things that insurance companies, more recently, have had to acknowledge and deal with as an integral part of their operations, because it can serve to undermine everything that they do. So, the whole concept of what is now being required–– and …
Mm-hmm.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Cyber risks are things that insurance companies, more recently, have had to acknowledge and deal with as an integral part of their operations, because it can serve to undermine everything that they do. So, the whole concept of what is now being required–– and we can di scuss it a little bit more when we get into Committee––but the whole concept of what is required with respect to cyber risks, are now needed from the Authority’s perspective as a separate and involved entity report that must be submitted. So the question begs whether any or part of that can actually be included with the CISSA responses. This is the Commercial Insurer’s Solvency Self Assessment , which they are required to file on an annual basis with their statutory returns, or the Financial 354 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly Condition Repor t [FCR]. Because now we have got CISSA, we have got the BSCRs [ Bermuda Solvency and Capital Return] that have to be filed. We have the auditor’s statements that have to be filed. We have got the BSCRs that have to be filed. We have got CISSAs that have to be filed. We have got an FCR that has to be filed. And now we have got a big, major cyber risk entity that has to be filed along with all of the other ancillary documentation that is required in order for your filing to be complete. So I only have concerns in terms of whether this can be somehow streamlined into one report, as opposed to, on the face of what is happening here, or what is appearing to be mentioned here, is a separate report coming in again which just involves more work and more work and more work. I understand; I am not trying to understate the necessity for the oversight and the regulatory oversight. I am just trying to determine whether there is a method by which we can make all of these filings a little bit more efficient for the companies that have to do it. It might be that we want to leave it as it is and maybe even make it a little bit broader so that it cr eates another employment category so we can put some more people to work. However, I always try to look at efficiencies and it just seems to me that the cyber risk reporting could be able to have some eff iciencies relating thereto. Because when you put your whole business plan and your economic plan for your ensuing year, which also has to be filed, your ec onomic capital models . . . it seems like that has got to be part of it. Part of the economic capital model has got to include your cyber risks because that is a clear and present danger to most companies. The other thing that I wanted to just highlight, is with respect to the schedu le of compliance and sanctions. I think it is critical that companies are made aware of their necessity not only to keep themselves currently apprised of what the restricted territories are, so that they do not have any challenges with sanc-tions compliance, but also to ensure that the training relating to sanctions compliance goes down to their line staff. Because predominantly where you are going to get these issues, especially in an insurance env ironment, is where you have situations where you have got un derwriters. And underwriters may be wri ting a risk and a risk may happen to emanate in a country or in a territory that has these restrictions. The underwriter may be unaware at the time that what he is doing is not appropriate because there are sanctions. Well, under normal circumstances, these matters will be caught by the board. And when one gives their plans in terms of this is what we are planning on writing, it can get caught. But I think that the educ ational component is critical. I think that companies have to take that responsibility to ensure that every member of their staff who is likely to be impacted by falling afoul of sanctioned territories are made aware of the pitfalls that occur. I think that those are my major concerns that I have with t he Bill, my observations (I should not say “concerns”). Again, let me say that the Monetary A uthority is an institution that I respect. I take my honourable colleague, the Deputy Leader’s comments in terms of the additional work that is required for us, just to make sure that we maintain our status as a pristine jurisdiction. And the Monetary Authority certainly goes above and beyond in doing their part in order to e nsure that we do not fall short, that we do not have the blacklisting issues that have exist ed, or the threats of blacklisting that we now have to deal with that we will start to look at. It is also very positive [that] this Bill ensures that the insurers, insurance managers, brokers and agents shall maintain a principal office in Bermuda, becaus e that gives rise and support to the economic substance that we will discuss, probably next week, in detail in terms of the Bill, and that the Authority is able to be satisfied that there is economic substance by the companies having the necessary infrastr ucture locally. Not only does that bode well for us as a jurisdiction, it also gives support to the necessity for us to ensure that we find employment for people. Because if there is a local jurisdiction . . . even if a company has a spe-cialised area of ex pertise under which they operate, they also will need [people] if they have a company in Bermuda, even right down to needing somebody to clean the office after five. There is always a job for somebody to do. And the requirement to have this is something that we saw for the first time, I think, making it a necessity a few years’ back. Certainly under our admi nistration we discussed it and thought it was probably one of the best things that had come out of the BMA having that requirement, that overarching requirement for effectively having a local presence. So as we continue to traverse the minefields of scrutiny that are being imposed upon us by the OECD, by the EU, by everything else . . . we have country -by-country reporting, everything that we have to do with the rules and regulations under which we have to operate in order to be seen to be a pristine jurisdiction. Notwithstanding that we have the benefits of (a) experience, and (b) reputation, that bodes well for us as a country, we need to make sure that we stay on that track and that we do not falter from it in any way, shape, or form. And for that I am appreci ative to the Monetary Authority and obviously their sen-ior staff for the job that they do in order to bring these issues to the fore to make sure that it is enshrined effectively in legislation so that when we are asked we can hand on heart say, It’s there. We have done it. And, yes, we are complying. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Member. Bermuda House of Assembly Does any other Member wish to speak? No other Member. Minister, once you get your note, I will let you have the floor. ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE SPEAKER HOUSE VISITOR
The SpeakerThe SpeakerBut in the meantime, I would just like to recognise that in the Gallery there is Senator Jones. Senator Jones, wel come to our Chamber. [Insurance Amendment (No. 3) Act 2018, S econd Reading debate, continuing]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMinister. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In response to the questions by my colleague, I have been advised that the Schedule of Cyber Risk, part of the annual filing for insurers, data called in 2018 with industry coo peration. Has it brought any clarity for you? [Inaudible …
Minister.
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In response to the questions by my colleague, I have been advised that the Schedule of Cyber Risk, part of the annual filing for insurers, data called in 2018 with industry coo peration. Has it brought any clarity for you?
[Inaudible interjection]
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Then they provide gui dance on cybersecurity. Shortly there will be some follow-up on that. And then the fee reductions announced for the tribunal appeal . . . in the past, the Authority will allow more detailed applications for fee reductions, waivers, and review on work to be done.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYou can move us to Committee. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker, I move that the Bill be committed.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Minister. Deputy. House in Committee at 4:46 pm [Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr., Chairman] COMMITTEE ON BILL INSURANCE AMENDMENT (NO. 3) ACT 2018
The ChairmanChairmanHonourable Members, we are now in Committee of the whole [House] for further consider ation of the Bill entitled Insurance Amendment (No. 3) Act 2018. Minister, you have the floor. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Chairman, this Bill seeks to amend the Insurance Act 1978 (the “principal Act”) to, amongst …
Honourable Members, we are now in Committee of the whole [House] for further consider ation of the Bill entitled Insurance Amendment (No. 3) Act 2018. Minister, you have the floor.
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Chairman, this Bill seeks to amend the Insurance Act 1978 (the “principal Act”) to, amongst other things, make provision for en-hanced supervisory and regulatory requirements to apply to insurance brokers and agents in Bermuda, and in furtherance of amendments required to be made to the Fourth Schedule of the Bermuda Monetary Authority Act 1969, under the heading “Insurance Act 1978. ”
The ChairmanChairmanMm-hmm. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: I wou ld like to ask to move clauses 1 through 4.
The ChairmanChairmanContinue. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Clause 1 provides for the Bill’s citation. Clause 2 amends the principal Act in section 1 to insert new subcategory definitions of “special purpose business .” The new subcategory definitions are “restricted special purpose business” and “unrestricted special purpose business .” The Authority has pr …
Continue.
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Clause 1 provides for the Bill’s citation. Clause 2 amends the principal Act in section 1 to insert new subcategory definitions of “special purpose business .” The new subcategory definitions are “restricted special purpose business” and “unrestricted special purpose business .” The Authority has pr oposed this amendment in furtherance of enhancing the manner in which it seeks to supervise and reg ulate the business to be carried out on Special Purpose Insurers. Where a Special Purpose Insurer proposes to conduct business with only one policyholder, it shall be deemed by the Authority to be carrying on “r estricted special purpose business”; where a Special Purpose Ins urer proposes to carry on business with multiple policyholders, it shall be deemed by the A uthority to be carrying on “unrestricted special purpose business .” The Authority already has regard at the time of registration of Special Purpose Insurers r egarding the number of policyholders it seeks to insure under section 5(2)(a) and now seeks to formali se this process. Clause 3 amends the principal Act in section 4 by expanding the manner in which the Authority may register the type of special purpose business to be conducted by Special Purpose Insurers. Under the new provision a Special Purpose Insurer may be re gistered to carry on either “restricted” or “unrestricted” special purpose business. Clause 4 amends the principal Act in section 4A to insert subsectio ns (5) and (6), which pr ovide that, when determining the class of general bus iness to be conducted by a corporate body seeking registration, the Authority may also determine whether such corporate body may be registered to carry on run-off insurance business.
The ChairmanChairmanThe Chair recognises the Honourable Member Pat Gordon- Pamplin. You have the floor, Honourable Member. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, as mentioned, we certainly support this, but we . . . I jus t wanted to highlight that 356 7 December 2018 Official Hansard …
The Chair recognises the Honourable Member Pat Gordon- Pamplin. You have the floor, Honourable Member. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, as mentioned, we certainly support this, but we . . . I jus t wanted to highlight that 356 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly under clause 2, we have already shown that we have reflected the fees in the BMA Act that we passed earlier for the fees.
The ChairmanChairmanMm-hmm. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: I have a question with respect to [clause] 4, and that was the concern that I raised while we were in the debate of the whole [House], and that was in respect of the run- off bus iness, and the fact that onshore has …
Mm-hmm.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: I have a question with respect to [clause] 4, and that was the concern that I raised while we were in the debate of the whole [House], and that was in respect of the run- off bus iness, and the fact that onshore has become more ap-pealing. Have we gotten any kind of financial impact as to what we are likely to lose by having this special category of run- off business, given the fees that are attendant thereto?
The ChairmanChairmanMinister. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: I am just waiting for my technical officers to provide me with an answer to that.
The ChairmanChairmanMinister, are you with us? Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Yes, Mr. Chairman. I have been advised that there has been no financial impact analysis. However, the BMA did com-plete a target operating model review. And, I think , consistent with that review, they are comfortable with the construct that is …
The ChairmanChairmanAny further speakers? The Chair recognises the Honourable Member, Pat Gordon- Pamplin. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Yes, just for clar ity. Th e Minister indicated that there had not been a financial impact analysis done. And I know that ac-cording to House rules we should have, when we have …
Any further speakers? The Chair recognises the Honourable Member, Pat Gordon- Pamplin. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Yes, just for clar ity. Th e Minister indicated that there had not been a financial impact analysis done. And I know that ac-cording to House rules we should have, when we have these kinds of Monetary Bills, there should be a financial impact statement that is attached to it, and I note that this is missing. But I think that at some point if the Minister would be willing to share with this House, and certainly share with me, so that we can have some comfort that the financial impact, you know, what it is so that we can start to evaluate. I a ppreciate the Minister’s response.
The ChairmanChairmanMinister. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: [No Audio]
The ChairmanChairmanDo you have your microphone on? [Crosstalk] Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: I move that clauses 1 through 4 be approved.
The ChairmanChairmanIt has been moved that clauses 1 through 4 be approved. Any objections to that? There appear to be none. Approved. [Motion carried: Clauses 1 through 4 passed.]
The ChairmanChairmanCarry on, Minister. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Chairman, I now wish to move clauses 5 through 9.
The ChairmanChairmanContinue. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Clause 5 amends the pri ncipal Act in section 6A to allow for the Authority to create prudential rules to govern the manner in which insurance brokers and insurance agents are to comply with technical requirements. Clause 6 amends the principal Act in section 6C …
Continue.
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Clause 5 amends the pri ncipal Act in section 6A to allow for the Authority to create prudential rules to govern the manner in which insurance brokers and insurance agents are to comply with technical requirements. Clause 6 amends the principal Act in section 6C to require insurance brokers or agents to apply to the Authority where they are desirous of being exempted from the requirements of any prudential rule (or any part thereof); or to have an applicable prudential rule modified. Clause 7 amends the principal Act in section 8 to require insurance brokers and agents to have a principal office and to confirm at registration the loc ation of such office; penalties shall apply for noncompliance. Clause 8 amends the principal Act in section 8B by repealing and replacing subsection (1) to pr ovide clarity as to the opinion requirements to be i mposed on a loss reserve specialist appointed by a Class 1, 2, 3 or Class IGB insurer. Clause 9 amends the principal Act in section 14, (i) to require insurance brokers and agents to pay registration, annual and other relevant fees; (ii) to provide a new power to be exercised by the Authority to exempt any registered person from the payment of any fee imposed by or under the section; (iii) to require an application to be made in relation to excepted long-term business under section 1(1)(a)(iv); and (iv) to provide a new power for the Authority to reduce any fee payable by a registered person under t he section. The new provision requires that prior to granting exemption from or reduction of fee payment, the A uthority is to take into account the nature, risks and scope of the business conducted or to be conducted by the registered person. The Authority may also r evoke its approval and is required to notify the regi stered person in writing, who shall have 28 days from the notification date to make representations to the Authority. The Authority is required to have regard to representations made when maki ng its decision.
Bermuda House of Assembly The Chairman: Any further speakers? The Chair recognises the Honourable Member Gordon- Pamplin.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Mr. Chairman, clause 5 and 6 are effectively housekeeping, and we have no objections to those. Clause 7, as I mentioned before in the debate, it is just positive that insurers, insurance managers, brokers and agents shall maintain a principal office in Bermuda. That is not discretionary. That is mandatory; it is obligatory. I think it is important for our econom y to ensure that people who are benefiting from this j urisdiction pay their fair share, and make sure that they have an infrastructure that supports them, but I have no objections.
The ChairmanChairmanMinister. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Chairman, I move that clauses 5 through 9 be approved.
The ChairmanChairmanIt has been moved that clauses 5 through 9 be approved. Any objections to that? Hon. Michael J. Scott: Mr. Chairman, before . . .
The ChairmanChairmanNo, no, no. Uh- huh. It has been moved that clauses 5 through 9 be approved. Are there any objections to that? You have an objection? Hon. Michael J. Scott: Yes, I have an objection. It is not an objection, I wish to . . . I thought that you …
No, no, no. Uh- huh. It has been moved that clauses 5 through 9 be approved. Are there any objections to that? You have an objection? Hon. Michael J. Scott: Yes, I have an objection. It is not an objection, I wish to . . . I thought that you were going to invite other Members to speak after the Madam sat down, because I would like to speak to clause 5.
The ChairmanChairmanDo you have objections? Hon. Michael J. Scott: No, sir, as I indicated, it is not an objection.
The ChairmanChairmanWell, you know, we are . . . you are objecting. The Minister has moved the clauses to be approved. I cannot retract that. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Chairman, I would like to move clauses 10 through 15.
The ChairmanChairmanHang on. I have to put through clauses 5 through 9 before we . . . It has been moved that clauses 5 through 9 be approved. Any objections to that? There appear to be none. Approved. [Motion carried: Clauses 5 through 9 passed.]
The ChairmanChairmanMinister, carry on. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: I move clauses 10 through 15.
The ChairmanChairman[Clauses] 10 to 15? Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Yes.
The ChairmanChairmanContinue. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Clause 10 amends the principal Act by inserting a new section 17B which imposes a requirement on insurance brokers and agents to file statutory financial statements. Clause 11 amends the principal Act in section 18A to align it with the new requirement imposed on insurance …
Continue.
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Clause 10 amends the principal Act by inserting a new section 17B which imposes a requirement on insurance brokers and agents to file statutory financial statements. Clause 11 amends the principal Act in section 18A to align it with the new requirement imposed on insurance agents and brokers under section 18AA; and ensures that there is a penalty imposed for n oncompliance with such requirements. Clause 12 amends the principal Act in section 28 by requiring insurance agents to maintain a list of insurers for whom they act. Clause 13 amends the principal Act in section 30 to extend the power of investigations on behalf of the Authority to insurance brokers and agents. Clause 14 amends the principal Act in section 30AA to require insurance brokers and agents to pr oduce documents to the Authority in accordance with the requirements of the section. Clause 15 amends the principal Act in section 30CA to require insurance brokers and agents to not ify the Authority of changes of shareholder controller or officer.
The ChairmanChairmanAre there any speakers to clauses 10 through 15? The Chair recognises the Honourable Member P at Gordon- Pamplin. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: [Clauses] 11 through 15, Mr. Chairman, are all just housekeeping. But I think it is important in [clause] 10 just to point out that this is …
Are there any speakers to clauses 10 through 15? The Chair recognises the Honourable Member P at Gordon- Pamplin.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: [Clauses] 11 through 15, Mr. Chairman, are all just housekeeping. But I think it is important in [clause] 10 just to point out that this is the springboard from which the other amendments are being made. And that is to ensure that insurance managers, brokers, agents shall file a statutory return in the prescribed form. I just wanted to find out what the formalisation process is for the filing of that prescribed form. Are they constrained by the same dates for filing as exist under the April 30 th drop- dead date of the statutory returns?
The ChairmanChairmanMinister. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Chairman, I am wai ting for some technical advice on this one. 358 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly The Chairman: Are there any further speakers? [Pause] Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Chairman, Honourable Member, I have been advised that …
Minister.
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Chairman, I am wai ting for some technical advice on this one. 358 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly The Chairman: Are there any further speakers?
[Pause] Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Chairman, Honourable Member, I have been advised that there is a requir ement that financial statements be prepared and be filed by or on June 30 th, annually.
The ChairmanChairmanAny further speakers? Minister, you want to move [clauses] 10 through 15? Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Chairman, I move that clauses 10 through 15 be approved.
The ChairmanChairmanIt has been moved that clauses 10 through 15 be approved. Any objections to that? There appear to be none. Approved. [Motion carried: Clauses 10 through 15 passed.]
The ChairmanChairmanContinue, Minister. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Chairman, I would like to move clauses 16 through 18.
The ChairmanChairmanOkay. Fine. Continue. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Clause 16 amends [paragraph] 4(2B) of the Schedule to the principal Act to extend the requirements of paragraph 4(2B) of the Schedule on minimum criteria for licensing to insurance brokers and agents. Clause 17 provides for amendments in the Schedule to the Insurance …
Okay. Fine. Continue.
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Clause 16 amends [paragraph] 4(2B) of the Schedule to the principal Act to extend the requirements of paragraph 4(2B) of the Schedule on minimum criteria for licensing to insurance brokers and agents. Clause 17 provides for amendments in the Schedule to the Insurance Returns and Solvency Regulations 1980 to make requirements, among other things, with respect to the schedule of cyber security management and the schedule of sanctions compl iance. Clause 18 provides for commencement.
The ChairmanChairmanAny further speakers? No? Minister, do you want to move . . . Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Chairman, I move that clauses 16 through 18 be approved.
The ChairmanChairmanIt has been moved that clauses 16 through 18 be approved. Are there any objections? There appear to be none. Approved. [Motion carried: Clauses 16 through 18 passed.] Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: I move that the Schedule be approved. The Chairman: It has been moved that the Schedule be approved. …
It has been moved that clauses 16 through 18 be approved. Are there any objections? There appear to be none. Approved. [Motion carried: Clauses 16 through 18 passed.]
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: I move that the Schedule be approved. The Chairman: It has been moved that the Schedule be approved. Are there any objections to that? There appear to be none. Approved.
[Motion carried: The Schedule passed.]
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: I move that the preamble be approved.
The ChairmanChairmanIt has been moved that the preamble be approved. Any objections to that? There appear to be none. Approved. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinso n: I move that the Bill be r eported to the House as amended. [sic]
The ChairmanChairmanIt has been moved that the Bill be reported to the House as . . . [Inaudible interjection]
The ChairmanChairmanAs printed. Any objection to that? The Bill will be reported to the House. [Motion carried: The Insurance Amendment (No. 3) Act 2018 was considered by a Committee of the whole House and passed without amendment.] House resumed at 5 :02 pm [Hon. Dennis P. Lister, Jr., Speaker, in the …
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMembers, are there any objections to the Insurance Amendment (No. 3) Act 2018 being r eported to the House as printed? No objections? It has been so moved and reported to the House. We will now move on to the next item on the Order Paper. It is the c …
Members, are there any objections to the Insurance Amendment (No. 3) Act 2018 being r eported to the House as printed? No objections? It has been so moved and reported to the House. We will now move on to the next item on the Order Paper. It is the c onsideration of the Contributory Pensions (Amendment of Benefits) Order 2018, and again, in the name of the Minister of Finance. Minister, would you like to carry on?
SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDER 29(1) Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker, I move that the Standing Order 29(1) be suspended to enable the House to proceed with the consideration of the draft Order entitled Contributory Pensions (Amendment of
Bermuda House of Assembly Benefits) Order 2018 proposed to be made by mysel f, the Minister of Finance, under section 37 of the Co ntributory Pensions Act 1970.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAny objections? No objections. Continue. [Motion carried: Standing Order 29(1) suspended.] ORDER CONTRIBUTORY PENSIONS (AMENDMENT OF BENEFITS) ORDER 2018 Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to present the Contributory Pensions (Amendment of Benefits) Order 2018 for the consideration of the Honourable Members. This is a reflection of …
Any objections? No objections. Continue.
[Motion carried: Standing Order 29(1) suspended.]
ORDER
CONTRIBUTORY PENSIONS (AMENDMENT OF BENEFITS) ORDER 2018
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to present the Contributory Pensions (Amendment of Benefits) Order 2018 for the consideration of the Honourable Members. This is a reflection of Government’s resolute and unwavering commitment to improve the quality of life of our senior citizens. Mr. Speaker, you will recall in the Gover nment’s 2017 Election Platform it was declared that this Government would put our seniors first and institute annual cost of living increases for Social Insurance pensions that will be linked to the rate of inflation to help lessen the hardships that too many of our seniors now endure. Mr. Speaker, before I get into the speci fics of this Order, it may be useful to elaborate on the pensions arrangements currently in place. Bermuda, like most other countries, currently provides retired individuals with a combination of S ocial Insurance from the Contributory Pension Fund and an occupational pension from their employer. In a perfect world, the Social Insurance would provide a first tier, or basic, pension which would most likely be supplemented by a second tier, or occupational pension. Through no fault of their own, currently a number of retired persons are not receiving an occupational pension and are, therefore, relying on their Social I nsurance as their sole source of income in retirement. Obviously, Mr. Speaker, this is not an ideal situation and the Government continues to d o its upmost to ensure that seniors who rely heavily on their Social Insurance benefits are cared for suitably. Mr. Speaker, notwithstanding the above, the Contributory Pension Fund benefit provides an i mportant base retirement income. Currently, the max imum pension paid under the Contributory Pension Fund is around 26 per cent of the median annual gross earnings for Bermudians as indicated in the Bermuda Job Market Employment Briefs produced by the Department of Statistics. This compares closely with the UK with a full basic state pension as a percentage of average earnings is around 24 per cent. Mr. Speaker, the purpose of the Order is to increase pensions and other benefits under the Con-tributory Pensions Act 1970 by 1.4 per cent, backdated to August 2018, when increases are typically made to the benefits. The 1.4 per cent increase in benefits would represent an additional cost of $2.3 million per year to the fund, with a retroactive pay costing approximately $950,000. The Contributory Pension Fund in principle relies on current contributors, or workers, paying for current pensioners and for the most part this is a pay -as-you-go finance programme. However, the policy of increasing contribution rates by 2.5 per cent above the rate of pension increases has allowed a significant level of funds to build up and thus the plan is partially funded, which provides further security of benefits. Under section 37 of the Contributory Pension Act 1970, the Minister of Finance has the power to make an Order to revise the rate of contributions and benefits of the Contributory Pension Fund. Mr. Speaker, there are seven types of benefits payable under the Contributory Pension Act 1970. All of the pensions and allowances will be increased by 1.4 per cent. These pensions and allowances are as follows: 1. Contributory old age pension; 2. Contributory old age gratuity; 3. Contributory widow or widower’s allowance; 4. Contributory widow or widower’s gratuity; 5. Contributory disability benefit; 6. Non- contributory old age pension; 7. Non- contributory disability benefit. Mr. Speaker, the basic contributory pension [is] $1,049.68 per month. The maximum contributory pension payable which includes additional increments is approximately $1,531.00 per month, although some 13,298 persons cur rently receive benefits under the Act. The proposed $1.4 per cent increase will raise the basic contributory pension to $1,064.37 per month and the maximum benefit to about $1,545.63 per month. Approximately 8 per cent of the 13,298 seniors covered by the Contributory Pension Fund receive maximum pension benefits ranging from basic to the maximum. Mr. Speaker, the 1.4 per cent increase marks the 12 th pension increase that the Progressive Labour Party has put in in its time in Government.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberHear, hear! Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Since taking office in N ovember of 1998, and now, this Government has put through 12 increases. In August of 2000, there was an increase of 3.0 per cent. In August of 2002, there was another 3.0 per cent. In August of 2003, there …
Hear, hear!
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Since taking office in N ovember of 1998, and now, this Government has put through 12 increases. In August of 2000, there was an increase of 3.0 per cent. In August of 2002, there was another 3.0 per cent. In August of 2003, there was another 3.0 per cent. In August of 2004, we increased pensions by an extraordinary 9.0 per cent. In August of 2005, there was an increase of 3.5 per cent. In A ugust of 2006, there was an increase of 4.0 per cent. In August of 1007, [an increase] of 4.5 per cent. In 2008, similarly August, 5.0 per cent. In August of 2009, [an increase] of 5.0 per cent. In August of 2011, [an i ncrease of] 3.0 per cent. In August of 2017, [an i ncrease] of 1.7 per cent. And now for August of 2018, an increase of 1.4 per cent. 360 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly In every case, the benefit increase has either exceeded the prevailing rate of inflation or has been in line with the underlying trend rate. Honourable Members are advised that based on the CPI, the cost of living has increased by 1.4 per cent since the last i ncrease was granted. Therefore, the proposed benefit increase fully covers the prevailing rate of inflation. Mr. Speaker, the 2018 increase in benefits would normally be accompanied by a corresponding i ncrease in contributions by an a ctuarially recommended rate of 3.9 per cent. However, Honourable Members will recall that in the 2018 Throne Speech, Go vernment announced that Bermuda’s Social Insurance system would be changed from a flat rate contribution to one based on a percentage of income. Therefore, contribution increases will be delayed until the actuary completes the modelling to effect this policy objective. Honourable Members are advised that the actuary is currently working on the 2017 Actuarial R eport for the Contributory Pe nsion Fund and it is antic ipated that this report will be completed in the second quarter of 2019, at the latest. Mr. Speaker, it is also noted that contributions were last increased in August 2018 by 4.2 per cent. Considering the relatively strong positio n of the fund, it is anticipated that the fund can withstand the one- year delay in contribution increases. However, it is critical that the increased contributions come into force in August 2019. Mr. Speaker, as of 30 September 2018, the fund had total assets of over $1.9 billion, representing approximately 11.7 times the annual value of the benefit paid in the 2017/18 fiscal year. This is a relatively high rate of funding, and when compared to 14 other Social Security schemes in a 2013 study, Bermuda’s ratio is better than nine of these countries, an average of 7.5 years. By comparison, the ratio for the Canada pension plan in 2017 was 7.5 times. The effect, Mr. Speaker, is that if the Contributory Pension Fund received no further contributions it could still continue to pay out pensions at the prevai ling rate for almost 12 years. However, the reality is that contributions will continue through time and will be increased from time to time. In addition, the pr udent investment of the pension fund assets is also an important factor in the fund’s financial position. In this regard, Government’s investment strategy for pension fund assets is achieving good results. As [previously] mentioned, as of September 30, 2018, the Contributory Pension Fund stood at $1.9 billion. For the trailing year, the fund posted r eturns of 6.7 per cent. And over the longer term, 5- and 10-year periods, the fund posted returns of 6.1 [per cent] and 7.4 per cent, respectively. Mr. Speaker, as evidenced by the 2014 Actuarial R eport tab led in this Honourable House in June 2016, the viability of the fund in the short - to medium - term is good, with the fund being positive for the next 25 years. However, recognising the long- term challenges of the fund, the Ministry will continue to closely monitor the performance of the fund. It should also be noted that the funding policy for the fund is not based on full actuarial funding, but based on sustainable funding; that is, contributions plus investment income should cover benefits and administrati on expenses on an annual basis while the fund builds up sufficient r eserves to cover several years of benefits and expenses to withstand future adverse circumstances. Mr. Speaker, despite the encouraging short - to medium -term outlook on the fund, what is clearly evident from the latest actuarial review, is that Berm uda, like most of the developed world, is faced with the challenges associated with the growth of an ageing population. During the next 50 years, the number of people over pension age, 65 at the moment, is expected to increase from 10,484 to 17,665, an increase of 7,181, or 68 per cent. This increase in our seniors will obviously place a greater strain on the country’s pension system, and it is essential that Government continues to closely monit or the performance of the fund and our overall pension arrangements to ensure pensions are set at an appropriate level. As mentioned [previously], the next actuarial report for the Contributory Pension Fund is due for the period August 1, 2017, and is cur rently underway. This report will be tabled in this Honourable House as soon as it is completed. Following this review the Mi nistry will propose changes to the fund to ensure its sustainability in the long term. Mr. Speaker, the Pr ogressive Labour Party Go vernment is nurturing the Contributory Pension Fund and tending to the needs of our seniors and we are striking the right balance between social and fiscal responsibility. Mr. Speaker, in closing, I wish to assure Members, and more importantly, current and future pensioners, that Government is sensitive to the cha llenges facing pension plans of this nature and will e ndeavour to take the appropriate steps to enhance the benefits paid from the scheme, as well as ensure the fund has an ongoing ability to pay f or such benefits. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Minister. Does any other Member wish to speak? I recognise the Honourable Member from constituency 23. Honourable Member, you have the floor. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, of the legislation that we have passed today, this is clearly the pièce de résistance. …
Thank you, Minister. Does any other Member wish to speak? I recognise the Honourable Member from constituency 23. Honourable Member, you have the floor. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, of the legislation that we have passed today, this is clearly the pièce de résistance. And I say that because we have an increase of pensions to our seniors, as the Minister has indicated in his presentation, which ranges fro m the high amount, the top amount that people are getting, which is now $1,531.00 per month, which will go up to $1,545[.63] per month, and is an increase of $14.00.
Bermuda House of Assembly That $14.00, Mr. Speaker, will just about pay for the Paw Paw that the Honourable Member spoke to this morning (that he received a picture of) to say that the Paw Paw costs $14.00. Because there is not much more that can be purchased. When we say that we want to increase how we care for our seniors, Mr. Speaker . . . and the Mi nister then went on to say that in 2000 they had a 3 per cent increase, and then 3.0 per cent for 2002, 2003. And 9.0 per cent in 2004; 3.5 per cent in 2005; in 2006, they had 4.0 per cent; in 2007, 4.5 per cent; in 2008 and 2009, were 5.0 per cent, respectively; in 2011 , was 3.0 per cent. And then they were only speaking about their years, so 2017 was 1.7 per cent; and 2018 was 1.4 per cent. So this is the lowest pension increase that this Government has afforded to our seniors, many of whom are struggling severely since they came into office in 1998. [In 2018] 1.4 per cent —1.4 per cent! And as I said, Mr. Speaker, what we have seen and what we heard about with price gouging this morning, that di fference at the top level cannot pay for Paw Paw. Mr. Speaker, our concern, obviously, is for Mr. Smith and Mrs. Smith. And our concern relating to that is going to be expressed in our support for this legisl ative Order , because, Mr. Speaker, a half a loaf, I would imagine, is better than none. But at 1.4 per cent, I would have been embarrassed to bring this to this Honourable House. Why would I be embarrassed? Because what it appears is that the Minister and the Government are doing not much more than ticking the boxes. We said we were going to give you a pension increase, so here is your pension increase. Don’t complain, Mr. and Mrs. Bermuda. I am giving you a pension i ncrease. That is what we said we would do and that is what we are doing. And I grant them that, but 1.4 per cent. Let not anybody get par ticularly excited as to what this extra is going to do for them. Probably the one fortunate thing is, there is a presumption that with this being retroactive to the 1 st of August, that people will probably see it in their pe nsion cheques this week. But I do not know. It might not be possible, possibly. So it means that they will not even see this until after Christmas. So there is no Paw Paw casserole, Mr. Speaker, for Mr. and Mrs. Smith. There is very little more that they can do. Their medications, notwit hstanding that the Minister indica ted that the rate of inflation, the CPI, has increased by 1.4 per cent; hence, this 1.4 per cent offset. But it is important also to understand that what is contained in the basket of goods and services is not necessarily all of that, that Mr. and Mrs. Senior require. That basket of goods and services is more indicative of your average person in the street, your median population, if I can put it that way, Mr. Speaker. Mr. and Mrs. Senior are not out buying diapers. They ar e not out buying the things that help to make up the basket of goods and services. And therefore, the impact on them, notwithstanding what the overall CPI index might be . . . the impact on Mr. and Mrs. Senior is significant. Now, we are going to get a pushback coming from the Government saying, Well, what happened to you? You didn’t give them increases during the four years that you were in Government. You only gave them increases the last year (I think it was; we might have done one, maybe it was two. There were two increases. So we missed one). But against the backdrop of attempting to keep the country from falling off the edge of a financial cliff, the austerity measures that were required to be employed were significant. I expect the criticism. And I can take the criticism, Mr. Speaker. But I can tell you that if things are as wonderful as the PLP Government would have us believe they are, they should be ashamed of themselves to come to seniors with a 1.4 per cent increase. If you stop and look at the amounts, Mr. Speaker, it is almost embarrassing to highlight them. Where the basis of a contributory, which is now 11085, it will go up to 11240, and increase of 155. And that is based on a group of contributions of which the minimum, I believe, is 25 contributions, up to a level of additional contributions that help to make up, to put the numbers of blocks (as it were) . . . This is where our blockchain comes in. I suppose we have to be appreciative of it. Where the blocks together will bring this base up to the total of $1,545. When you have some seniors, as I had very recently, complain that the insurance policy that they are paying for two people was in excess of $3,000, and now we are seeing that each of them, provided that they had full contribution, will get a total of $3,060, then they have a whole $60 left over to buy some food, pay lights, buy clothing, and what have you. So I am saying that while I support any i ncrease for our seniors, at this paltry level we are causing our seniors to grovel when they do not need to. When we listen to some of the increases that we have just put through, and some of the corporate stuff, and you see these, you know, 8, 10, and 15 per cent i ncreases coming through for Monetary Authority and you sit there and you start to juxtapose that against where the real necessity is. And the real necessity is in our senior population, Mr. Speaker, those who we always hear cannot afford the rent, have to make the choice between food and medicine. And this Gover nment with a 1.4 per cent paltry contribution has failed to give any significant or appreciable relief to our sen-iors. So, as I said, Mr. Speaker, the pièce de rési stance is the most disappointing of all the reasons why I have stood on my feet today. Mr. Speaker, you might notice that I have been up on every single piece of legislation that we have covered today.
362 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly The Speaker: You have been active this afternoon, yes. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon- Pamplin: That is for my sins of being both a spokesperson in this House respons ible for Health, as well as the spokesperson respons ible for Finance. And I have no problem with carrying that burden, Mr. Speaker, especially when we want to advocate on behalf of people who cannot advocate for themselves. But I would ask that the Government , when they look at what they are attempting to do, as op-posed to just trying to tick the box so that they can go in 10 years’ time and say, And we gave them a pension increase of 1.7 per cent last time, and 1.4 per cent . . . if you take last years’ increase plus this years’ increase, it just about ekes out a comparison to the lowest amount that they gave to the seniors, and that was in 2011. Because that gave you a 3.1 per cent total last year and this, when in 2011, they of-fered a 3.0 per cent increase. So, Mr. Speaker, some people might get excited. The Government may say, We ticked the box. We heard the Minister beat his chest, pound his chest and say that, We promised this in our Throne Speech. We promised it in our platform. We are going to give you an increase every single year. But you know what? I can say to my children that I am going to give you something every year. The question is, What is the relative value of what they are getting? And in this instance, Mr. Speaker, there is nothing that would say to me that Mr. and Mrs. Senior Smith are going to be any better off with this paltry 1.4 per cent increase than they were prior to it. Especially given that they will not be able to have Paw Paw casserole for Christmas. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member. Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak? We recognise the Honourable Member from constituency [6] , Honourable Member Furbert. You have the floor. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: T hank you, Mr. Speaker. [Crosstalk] Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Just one minute, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYes, you have the seat. [ Pause] Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Mr. Speaker, you know, I was not sure if I should slap myself to make sure I was not dreaming. But I realised, Mr. Speaker, that we are living in times of deception. Mr. Speaker —
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberWow! Ano ther Hon. Member: It is from your side. [ Inaudible interjections] Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: —are you trying to tell me . . . not you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerSpeak to the Chair. Speak to the Chair. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: But is the Opposition is tr ying to tell me that this Government, who has made a commitment to the people of Bermuda, to the seniors, that they will give an increase every year while they are the …
Speak to the Chair. Speak to the Chair. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: But is the Opposition is tr ying to tell me that this Government, who has made a commitment to the people of Bermuda, to the seniors, that they will give an increase every year while they are the Government, [that it] is wrong? When they were in power, Mr. Speaker, for five years —five years —and gave one increase. Am I . . . am I . . . Mr. Speaker, am I missing something? And they tell me, Mr. Speaker, that they care. But when did they start caring? When the former Mi nister— [ Inaudible interjections] Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: She was the Minister of Health. The [Honourable Member] was the Minister of Health. And the former Premier sits there as they chat, and could not get his Cabinet to support an i ncrease for our seniors every year? Mr. Speaker, at least the seniors can buy a Paw Paw for $14.00. U nder the OBA, they could not buy a Paw Paw at all! [ Laughter] Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Mr. Speaker, they could not even buy a Paw Paw, because there was no increase under their administration, [except] for one year. And Mr. Speaker, that was leading up to an election. Tr ying to get the senior support. All of a sudden they woke up and realised, Oops! We forgot to take care of our most important citizens in Bermuda. Our seniors! And the Honourable Member, as she leaves, must recognise that. You cannot challenge this Go vernment, who is talking about giving an increase every year on the rate of inflation, and they give no increase! Am I losing my mind? [ Inaudible interjections]
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberYes. [ Crosstalk] Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Mr. Speaker, the Honourable Member who speaks for constituency 11 [sic], inBermuda House of Assembly creases his prices every year on the wholesales against our seniors.
Some Hon. Members Some Hon. MembersOoh! [Inaudible interjections] Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: But would not give seniors an increase! [Inaudible interjections] Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: [Constituency] 10. But he would not give an increase. The former Premier would not give . . . the Honourable Michael Dunk ley, from [constituency] 10, knew that he was …
Ooh! [Inaudible interjections]
Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: But would not give seniors an increase!
[Inaudible interjections]
Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: [Constituency] 10. But he would not give an increase. The former Premier would not give . . . the Honourable Michael Dunk ley, from [constituency] 10, knew that he was giving an increase on his Paw Paws, his eggs, his bread, his Pepsi, and the list goes on and on. But he would not give an increase to our seniors. Am I missing something, Mr. Speaker? There is not one Member on that side—
The SpeakerThe SpeakerSpeak to the Chair. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: —can stand up and justify for five years not giving an increase to our seniors. But, Mr. Speaker, what did the PLP do? In 2000, they gave 3.0 per cent. In 2002, they gave 3.0 per cent . In 2003, they gave …
Speak to the Chair.
Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: —can stand up and justify for five years not giving an increase to our seniors. But, Mr. Speaker, what did the PLP do? In 2000, they gave 3.0 per cent. In 2002, they gave 3.0 per cent . In 2003, they gave 3.0 per cent. In 2004, they gave 9.0 per cent. In 2005, 3.5 per cent. In 2006, 4.0 per cent. In 2007, 4.5 [per cent]. In 2008, 5.0 per cent. In 2009, 5.0 per cent. In 2011, 3 per cent. And then all of a sudden, the OBA took over. In 2012, 0.0 per cent; 2013, 0.0 per cent; 2014, 0.0 per cent; 2015, 0.0 per cent, Mr. Speaker. And they are talking about who cares? They should . . . you know, I was trying to keep . . . I said, They won’t say nothing. They wouldn’t have the nerve to stand up and challenge a 1.4 [per cent]. A lady who can buy a Paw Paw, but under their administration they couldn’t even buy that Paw Paw. I could not believe when they stood up. I said, I must be dreaming. They aren’t even politically smart to realise just keep quiet when you know you are in trouble. Mr. Speaker, I am proud of this Government. We made a commitment to the seniors of this Island. Mr. Speaker, we not only gave an increase, but this year [we] reduced some of the goods when it came to those produc ts . . . that are . . . um . . . e—
[Inaudible interjections]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerEssential? Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Essential; e ssential food.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberSlap yourself. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: I know who I would like to slap.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberYou would like to slap yourself. [Laughter]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerNow, now . . . keep the conversation here. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: I wasn’t talking to him, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerKeep the conversation here. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Mr. Speaker, I started out by— [Inaudible interjections] Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: I started out by saying I would slap myself.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberYes, that’s what I’m saying.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerKeep the conversation this way. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: I started out by saying I would like to slap myself.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberYes, that is what I said. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: So that is what I said.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberThat is what I said. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: And that is why I said I know who I want to slap.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberYourself. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: You can say what you want. Mr. Speaker, I cannot . . . just sit down in your seat. Take your political advice and tell your advisors to keep quiet. When you are in a hol e, stop digging. Do not get back up and …
Yourself.
Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: You can say what you want. Mr. Speaker, I cannot . . . just sit down in your seat. Take your political advice and tell your advisors to keep quiet. When you are in a hol e, stop digging. Do not get back up and . . . and . . . and . . . I do not know who is going to stand up after me, but I would suggest to you, stay low. Because you cannot win this battle. You cannot go and justify a 0.0 per cent and we got 1.4 [per cent]. You cannot justify it. Oh, are you saying that when you get . . . you think you will get back in another 50 years, then you will go up some percentage? Well, most of you will not be around here, at least the Honourable Member from constituency 11 [sic].
364 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly The Speaker: In 50 years, I don’t think any of us will be around here.
Some Hon. Members Some Hon. Members[Constituency] 10! Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Number 10, number 10. He will not be around here because his Member . . . his Leader wants to get rid of him also. So he may not be around here next election. Mr. Speaker, I am proud of the record of this …
[Constituency] 10! Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Number 10, number 10. He will not be around here because his Member . . . his Leader wants to get rid of him also. So he may not be around here next election. Mr. Speaker, I am proud of the record of this Government so far. And, hopefully, when, as the new Minister of Finance sees fit to take some of the recommendations of the tax reform, who talks about even going further to reduce some of the cost of food being brought in. It is not just about giving . . . it is about looking at the whole picture. It is about the whole pi cture.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberYes. Hon. Wayne L. Furber t: So the honourable Michael and I . . . I wanted to . . . I wanted to, Mr. Speaker, after we gave a reduction on import of eggs in April of this year, I went down to MarketPlace to see what the honourable …
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberYes. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: And they were up. I must admit, maybe the chickens were not laying too many eggs those days. Supply and demand. [Laughter] Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: I must admit they are down now, they are down now a little bit. But, Mr. Speaker , I …
Yes.
Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: And they were up. I must admit, maybe the chickens were not laying too many eggs those days. Supply and demand.
[Laughter]
Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: I must admit they are down now, they are down now a little bit. But, Mr. Speaker , I just ask the Opposition, just cool out. Lay low. When you want to speak, the first three Bills were excellent. I mean, they were excellent. You spoke calm and then the Honourable Member gets up and disturbs this Honourable House. Mr. Speaker, there are too many Members on this side [who] remember. You think a senior forgot that they did not get any increase at all? That is why they did not get voted in!
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberHmm. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Did you realise that they did not get voted in because they had no increase? And then the Honourable Bob Richards tried to sneak in one just before the election. No, you cannot trick seniors. At least under this Government we have said [that] we …
Hmm. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Did you realise that they did not get voted in because they had no increase? And then the Honourable Bob Richards tried to sneak in one just before the election. No, you cannot trick seniors. At least under this Government we have said [that] we have made a commitment, we will fulfil our promise. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member. [Desk thumping]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerDoes any other Honourable Member wish to speak? I recognise the Honourable Member from constituency 10. Honourable Member, you have the floor. Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I think everybody in this Honourable House would like to ensure that our seniors have sufficient pensions to …
Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak? I recognise the Honourable Member from constituency 10. Honourable Member, you have the floor.
Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I think everybody in this Honourable House would like to ensure that our seniors have sufficient pensions to allow them to enjoy their sunset years. I r emember when I was younger and everyone talked about seniors and the sunset years. But it seems now that seniors, as they approach those sunset years, life is much, much tougher for them, for many reasons. One of the first being, I think, is that the cost of health care has risen at alarming rates, double di gits over the last probably, probably over the last . . . the 10 years to start this century. It slowed down a little bit and it is increasing again, so seniors have a challenge. It is unfortunate that we get into debates in this Honourable House about pension increases given to our seniors. And I know it is politics, back and forth. And I can imagine that Honourable Members, if we listen to our constituents at the end of this debate, we would probably be embarrassed because those seniors listening to this debate want to know that they are going to get an increase, and they do not want us squabbling back and forth.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberAre you serious? Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: And, yes, certainly. The Honour able Member says, [Are] you serious? I am as serious as a heart attack. And while the Honourable Member interp olates from his chair, let me digress from what I was going to say for one second, Mr. …
Are you serious?
Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: And, yes, certainly. The Honour able Member says, [Are] you serious? I am as serious as a heart attack. And while the Honourable Member interp olates from his chair, let me digress from what I was going to say for one second, Mr. Speaker, because it is interesting that the debate in this House always has to get personal. I had not said anything about this debate, and the Honourable Member wants to focus in on me. I will stand proudly here and talk about business, because I employ Bermudians, Mr. Speaker. I never left debts out there that could not pay. And I always hired Bermudians. That speaks more than the clap- trap I heard from the Honourable Member on the on the side. And that is all I will say to that. If he wants to talk about pricing of consumer goods, I am happy to talk to the Honourable Member about that. Because sometimes it is better not to insert your foot in your mouth when you are going on national radio, Mr. Speaker. Now, Mr. Speaker, back to the subject. When the OBA became the Government in Christmas of 2012, six years ago, we inherited a budget that was going to close in on a $330 million annual deficit —
B ermuda House of Assembly [Inaudible interjections] Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: [It was] $333 million, Mr. Speaker. We bought it in at the level. And I raise that point for two reasons. One is, it is a tremendous deficit because at that time, I think, the overall budget probably was somewhere in the range of $950 million, maybe a little bit less, little bit more. So, every $3.00 that we spent, $1.00 we had to borrow. And in that time, the Honourable Finance Mi nister, one of the first things he had to do in the new year was go borrow more money to pay for civil ser vants pay cheques. And we are talking about giving people increases. We had to go find money to pay people we had working every day, hard- working civil servants. We had to go find money because the for-mer Government left it lay. And the other thing I say about that deficit, Mr. Speaker, in the previous six or seven years the PLP budgets had been so far off base that the deficit that we had ended up being much more, putting a further hurt on our economy. So the Junior Minister, no mat-ter how long he is a Junior Minister, Mr. Speaker — [ Inaudible interjections] Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: —should check his facts before he comes here. [ Inaudible interjections]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerOne Member speaking, please. One Member. Continue on. Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I pay him little mind when he is sitting down in his chair.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerJust speak to the Chair. Just speak to the Chair. Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: I always do, Mr. Speaker, I know you are paying full attention.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerJust speak to the Chair. Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: So, Mr. Speaker, we can debate who has given pensions and who has not gi ven reasonable pensions.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberWell, we know that! Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: The Finance Minister at that time was adamant in the programme and the plan he had to get our economy back in a better position and to get Government finances in a better position, and he accomplished both of those, Mr. Speaker. …
Well, we know that! Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: The Finance Minister at that time was adamant in the programme and the plan he had to get our economy back in a better position and to get Government finances in a better position, and he accomplished both of those, Mr. Speaker. And it seems now that we are going in the wrong direction. We are going in the wrong direction again today. And so my colleague is perfectly within her right to express her viewpoint on the amount that the pension has been increased, because in reality, 1.4 per cent is a very small increase. It is an increase; I will give you that.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberMargin of zero. Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: And the Honourable Member who claims to have something to do with ac-countancy, continues to interpolate. I do not believe— Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Point of order, Mr. Speaker. Point of order, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAh, ah, ah! Member . . . POINT OF ORDER Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: The Honourable Member is not an accountant. And I do not claim to be . . . I do not claim —I am! [ Inaudible interjections] Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: But you are not!
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMembers, Members. Let me invite you all to have thick skins. If someone is going to talk about another Member, and it comes back at you, have thick skin. If you do not . . . if your skin is not thick enough to take it, do not dish it …
Members, Members. Let me invite you all to have thick skins. If someone is going to talk about another Member, and it comes back at you, have thick skin. If you do not . . . if your skin is not thick enough to take it, do not dish it out. I did not i nterrupt you when you were throwing stones that way, if a stone comes back this way, all the same. If I go out in the playground and I pick a fight with the bully, and the bully beats me up, I cannot go crying to n obody over it. I picked the fight. If I am going to pick the fight, I had better take what is coming. Understand me? Continue. Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Amen to that, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAh-a h. Just continue on. Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Mr. Speaker —
The SpeakerThe SpeakerJust continue on. Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: So, Mr. Speaker, the Honourable Minister who gave a comprehensive overview on the pension scheme . . . it seems important to note that for the next couple of years we are in a reasona-ble position, but because of the advancing age of …
Just continue on. Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: So, Mr. Speaker, the Honourable Minister who gave a comprehensive overview on the pension scheme . . . it seems important to note that for the next couple of years we are in a reasona-ble position, but because of the advancing age of our population, of people living longer, I think the moun-tain is going to get harder to climb over the next 5, 10, 15 and 20 years. And so while it is, perhaps, in some 366 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly minds, prudent that the Minister takes this approach today, I think in 5 years’ time we ar e going to be tal king a different story because people are going to be living much longer and, obviously, claiming pensions for a much longer period of time. I remember when I was younger, and to see somebody living into their 70s, it seemed like that was an advanced age. I was talking to a constituent of mine the other day and both of their parents are still alive, in their mid -90s, and play tennis every day. And that just goes to show that, with the grace of God and with good health, you can live a longer period of time. So we do have a real challenge because the sustainability of this pension fund and private pensions that people are also trying to earn and invest and raise, Mr. Speaker, is going to be what I consider one of the most critical challenges going forward. People are going to be retiring over the coming years and they are not going to have adequate resources, certainly from this pension fund, because $1,545 at the top line of it does not take you very far. And pr ivate pension funds were only m andated about 20 years ago. So we have significant challenges. And the challenges that we need to find here in the House is how we can ensure that our seniors get a reasonable increase as the years go by to pay for their goods. Because if they do not, Mr. Speaker, what happens is, and I am sure the Minister is well aware of it, that Financial Assistance pays more. Right now I would imagine that at least 30 per cent of the monthly expenditure for Financial Assistance is for our seniors. And that is a number that needs to be factored into the equation that we have currently, b ecause that number will probably rise over time. So, Mr. Speaker, 1.4 per cent increase is something that the seniors can expect in a reasonable period of time. We need to make sure that we shore up our pension funds as much as we can. I will be interested to see how the Government will be doing going forward. There has been some comment in the Throne Speech and I look forward to in the next year when the Government actually brings legisl ation as we can move forward to it. We will have this debate again next year, I am sure, Mr. Speaker, and the year after that. But the fact of the matter is we cannot keep up with the cost of living for our seniors in the rates that we give under the curr ent pension contributions and we have to try to do the best we can.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member. Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak? Mr. Premier, would you like to contribute to this debate? Hon. E. David Burt: I absolutely w ould, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerWell, continue on. Hon. E. David Burt: And, Mr. Speaker, I would first like to commend the Minister of Finance on his brief — [Desk thumping] Hon. E. David Burt: —and for laying out in such plain and simple terms the fact that the Government is fulfilling its promises. But …
Well, continue on. Hon. E. David Burt: And, Mr. Speaker, I would first like to commend the Minister of Finance on his brief — [Desk thumping]
Hon. E. David Burt: —and for laying out in such plain and simple terms the fact that the Government is fulfilling its promises. But I find it very interesting, coming from a Government and a party that broke their promises so many times, that they almost feel it necessary to crit icise the Progressive Labour Party for keeping ours.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberYes. Hon. E. David Burt: The former Premier who just took his seat said that we will have this debate every year. You know what, Mr. Speaker? Yes, we will. And the reason why we will have this debate every year, Mr. Speaker, is because we promised the people of …
Yes.
Hon. E. David Burt: The former Premier who just took his seat said that we will have this debate every year. You know what, Mr. Speaker? Yes, we will. And the reason why we will have this debate every year, Mr. Speaker, is because we promised the people of this country that we would deliver pension increases in line with the cost of living. That is what we promised and that is what we have delivered. So when Members on the other side want to get into revisionist history, when they want to com-plain about the fact that the amount might not be enough, let them be reminded, we are increasing it by the cost of living. It is now indexed to the cost of living. That is a promise, and that is something that the seniors can look forward to under this Government, today, next year, the following years, and all the time into the future. Because there is one thing that we know, Mr. Speaker, it is that this side of the House will take care of our seniors and that side of the House will make them wait while telling them that money does not grow on trees. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
[Desk thumping]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Mr. Premier. Is there any other Member wish to speak? No other Member ? Minister. [Crosstalk] [Pause] Hon. Michael J. Scott : Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAh . . . Hon. Michael J. Scott : Mr. Speaker, are we just wai ting for a message to be sent to the Governor on this Order?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYes, it does not go to Committee. This is an Order. Yes. We do not go to Committee. Bermuda House of Assembly Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker, I request that a message be sent to the Governor.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYes. Any objections to that?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerNo objections. So done. [Motion carried: The Contributory Pensions (Amendment of Benefits) Order 2018 was approved.]
The SpeakerThe Speaker[This] now brings us to a close of that matter. The next matter on the Order Paper today is, actually, a motion by the Mi nister of Finance. Minister, are you going to proceed with your motion at this point? Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: I am, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerLet me just add, I think it was [misi nformation], to clarify that it is a take note motion, r ather than a substantive motion. Right? Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Yes, sir.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThat means that as a take note motion you get to open it, but you do not get to close it. If it was a substantive, you would open and close it. [Inaudible interjections]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerIt is a take note. So, feel free to pr oceed when you are ready. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker —
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberYou can [put] your closing remarks in your opening remarks. [Laughter] MOTION TAKE NOTE OF THE REP ORT OF THE TAX REFORM COMMISSION 2018 Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: I move that the House do now take under consideration the following motion, notice of which was given on the 23rd of …
You can [put] your closing remarks in your opening remarks. [Laughter]
MOTION
TAKE NOTE OF THE REP ORT OF THE TAX REFORM COMMISSION 2018
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: I move that the House do now take under consideration the following motion, notice of which was given on the 23rd of November 2018. WHEREAS Honourable Members are mindful of the contents of t he Report of the Tax Reform Commission 2018; BE IT RESOLVED that this Honourable House carefully consider both the contents and impl ications of the said report.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAny objections? No objections. Continue. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker, I did not have a chance to kind of make some closing remarks at the end of the last topic, so I will just take a minute to kind of make an observation.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerI beg your pardon? Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: I will take a minute . . . I will ask you, can I have a minute to make an observ ation?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerIn reference to? Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: The last matter that closed before I —
The SpeakerThe SpeakerWell, that is finished. We have moved on. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: All right. Fine.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerWe have moved on. You could have done it before you asked for the Order to be passed on to the Governor, but you can move on now. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: That is quite all right. Thank you. And with your indulgence, Mr. Speaker, I would like to be …
We have moved on. You could have done it before you asked for the Order to be passed on to the Governor, but you can move on now.
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: That is quite all right. Thank you. And with your indulgence, Mr. Speaker, I would like to be ab le to refer to my notes as I make comments —
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYes. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: —on the Tax Commission. Mr. Speaker, it was three weeks ago my co lleague, the Honourable Junior Minister of Finance, on my behalf, tabled in this House the report of the Tax Commission. By way of background, Mr. Speaker, and Honourable Members, the 2017 Throne …
Yes. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: —on the Tax Commission. Mr. Speaker, it was three weeks ago my co lleague, the Honourable Junior Minister of Finance, on my behalf, tabled in this House the report of the Tax Commission. By way of background, Mr. Speaker, and Honourable Members, the 2017 Throne Speech spoke to establishing a Tax Reform Commission and a Tax Reform Commission Act 2017, was passed. The purpose of the commission was to co nduct a thorough review of Bermuda’s tax system and revenue collection, and to make a series of reco mmendations on tax reform to Parliament. More specif ically, the Tax Reform Commission was given a man-date by the former Minister of Finance to examine Bermuda’s tax system, and determine any measures that may be best taken to best enable a system of taxation and revenue collection that is equitable, eff icient, competitive, and transparent. It would look at ways of increasing public sector revenue. The rev e368 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly nue yield from 17 per cent of GDP to a minimum of 20 to 22 per cent of GDP, and it would prepare a report and submit that report to this House. Mr. Speaker, as Minister of Finance —
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMinister, let me just interject one thing before you really get started. Being you are new at this, the opening speaker is yourself and the opening Member who replies from the Opposition gets to speak for an hour. And every other Member gets to speak for half an hour after …
Minister, let me just interject one thing before you really get started. Being you are new at this, the opening speaker is yourself and the opening Member who replies from the Opposition gets to speak for an hour. And every other Member gets to speak for half an hour after that. So feel free; you have got time.
Hon. Curtis L. Dicki nson: Thank you.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYou have an hour. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: In the spirit of sharing, I will not take an hour. [Laughter]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerOkay. Just letting you be aware of it. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Thank you.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberNo, you do not want to share your time with anybody else. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Well, I know that there are some in here who like to talk for the sake of talking. I am not one of those people.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAnd I hope others will follow suit from you and we will have short speeches from everyone. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Well, one can hope, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerOne can hope, yes. Continue on. [Inaudible interjections] Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: I did not mention any names. [Inaudible interjections]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you for clarifying that, Minister. We appreciate that. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker, as Minister of Finance I would like to convey my personal thanks to the seven- member bipartisan commission team and commend on their tremendous efforts and their hard work. The names of the commission members: …
Thank you for clarifying that, Minister. We appreciate that.
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker, as Minister of Finance I would like to convey my personal thanks to the seven- member bipartisan commission team and commend on their tremendous efforts and their hard work. The names of the commission members: The Chairman, Mr. Ronald Simmons, who is a partner at Moore Stephens, the accounting firm in Bermuda; The Honourable Wayne Furbert, JP, MP, Junior Minister of Finance; The Honourable Jeanne Atherden, JP, MP, Member of the Opposition; Mr. Donald Scott, former Secretary to the Cabinet , Head of Civil Service, and Financial Secr etary; Mr. Mitch Blaser, COO (Chief Operating O fficer) of Ironshore Inc., and CEO (Chief Executive O fficer) of Ironshore Bermuda; Economist, Mr. Craig Swan [sic]; and Lawyer at MJM Limited, Mr. Brian Holdipp.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerCraig Simmons or Craig Swan? Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Craig Simmons.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerCraig Simmons, yes. Somerset boy, we want to clarify that name; get it straight. [Laughter] Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: From Ely’s Harbour, I think that is. Right?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerVery true. Yes. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker, over the last three weeks there has been considerable discussion about the content of the Commission’s report and speculation on what this Government will do with r espect to the implementation of the recommendations. Rather than go through each of the …
Very true. Yes.
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker, over the last three weeks there has been considerable discussion about the content of the Commission’s report and speculation on what this Government will do with r espect to the implementation of the recommendations. Rather than go through each of the report’s recommendations and take up an entire hour, I would like to encourage people to read the report in its entirety in order to inform themselves of its contents. I also hav e had the opportunity to engage with a number of the Island’s stakeholders who have shared with me their observations and concerns, and I would like to thank those individuals for their feedback and [I] promise to consider their views in my deliber ations. Mr. Speaker, let me state very clearly for the benefit of this Honourable House and the members of the Bermuda general public and business community. I continue to review the recommendations contained in the report and have made no decisions yet on which recommendations will be advanced to impl ementation. However, I have begun to develop a framework through which the team at the Ministry of Finance will evaluate each recommendation. Before I discuss that approach, let me remind Members of the challenges t hat we are working through:
Bermuda House of Assembly 1. We have a net debt of approximately $2.45 billion, which costs the Government approx imately $188 million a year to service. 2. We have an unfunded pension liability in excess of $1.4 billion. 3. We still have a budget deficit. 4. We have an ageing population. 5. We have an increasing health care cost bur-den. 6. We have an economy that, while moving for-ward, is doing so slowly. As we work through these challenges, we are also engaged in a fight to remove and reduce the i mpact of external threats to Bermuda and our existence. While the totality of these challenges may seem daunting, we remain focused on tackling them in a judicious manner. As the Ministry of Finance team works to develop the Government’s budget for 2019/20, we will be guided in our consideration of the Commission’s report by the following: • We are striving for a balance approach. One that looks at finding sources of incremental revenue while at the same time seeking to find opportunities to make Government more efficient. • We are seeking to understand the impacts of any change that we propose to make in taxes on the broader economy. We accept and un-derstand the axiom that taxpayers do not want to pay a penny more of taxes than they have to. We will employ a consultative approach. We will focus on better collection and enforcement of taxes that are already on the books. • The solutions require a lot of fiscal discipline by our Government where we properly prior itise our needs over our wants. And we will need to find ways of decreasing the admini strative burden associated with tax payment and tax collection for both taxpayer and the Government. Mr. Speaker, for a brief moment I would like to focus on one particular area that has generated a fair amount of attention by many people who have spoken to me over the past few weeks about this report. There is widespread support for the notion that we need to do a better job of: 1. collecting the taxes that we currently have on the books; and 2. collecting outstanding taxes that are due to government. So enforcement and collection will continue to be priorities of the Office of the Tax Commissioner. We are looking at ways of supporting the Office of the Tax Commissioner, which has a critically important mission; however, today is under -resourced from a people and systems perspective. Mr. Speaker, I want to state clearly that I believe the best way to resolve our fiscal challenges is to grow our economy through the creation of more well - paying jobs. A growing economy leads to a broader tax base with more participants and, through the law of averages, an ability to spread the tax burden across a broader number of people. While remaining mindful of the important and significant contributions that big business makes to our economy, we need to continue to wor k on policies that help entrepreneurs, small - and medium -sized businesses to thrive as they participate in our . . . it is a critical ingredient in building emplo yment and growing our economy and our wealth. However, growing the economy will take some time . In the meantime, we need to examine more immediate ways of increasing revenue while at the same time reducing the rate of growth of expens-es. There are many variables to consider. But this complex equation can be solved with a thoughtful approach, collaboration, and consultation. I am confident that we can develop a way forward that reflects the concerns of all stakeholders. With that, Mr. Speaker, I yield the floor to my honourable colleagues who may want to weigh in on the report of the Tax Reform Comm ission.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Minister. You did say you were going to be brief and set a tone for others to follow, so I will remind others that it is a brief discussion by all, hopefully. [Inaudible interjections]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerI recognised the Honourable Member from constituency 23. Honourable Member, you have the floor. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the presentation that the Mini ster gave was brief, at best, given that this was an exercise that was initiated by his Government. I would …
I recognised the Honourable Member from constituency 23. Honourable Member, you have the floor.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the presentation that the Mini ster gave was brief, at best, given that this was an exercise that was initiated by his Government. I would have hoped that the exploration of the individual areas that had been recommended would have had a little bit more detail appended to it. The Minister indicated that he does not . . . or they have not m ade any recommendations to pare down, or have not made any choices to pare down the recommendations that have come from the Commi ssion. Let me also say that that Commission had es-teemed members of our community, one of whom is our very own Fellow Chartered Accountant, as she sits behind me, and has put her astute eye to the job at hand. The other is the Honourable Member (this is from this Honourable House) from constituency 6. Along with some extremely esteemed members in the financial world, in the econom ic world, and in the accounting world. 370 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly So, it was important to get a feel for what their recommendations were and that we have the opportunity to explore how those recommendations may or may not fit into what would be good for us as a coun-try going forward. Now, the first thing that I wanted to say, Mr. Speaker, is the mandate that was given to the Tax Reform Commission was that they look at whatever methodologies they determine to be appropriate to be able to yield additional revenues, additional monies, into the coffers so that we can survive, and survive well economically. The one issue that came to mind immediately is that governments are not in the business of being a for-profit organisation. So what we would expect to see with the choices that are made is that Gover nment will make the necessary selection from the rec-ommendations that would balance our budget. We are not looking for a whole of extra money. We are not looking for money that, on the backs of the taxpayers, will go to grow a burgeoning government. That is not the intent. The intent is to make sure that the funds that come in are matched . . . or the funds that go out, are matched by the funds that come in. But in that matc hing process, I think it is necessary to understand that you do not want to have an assault on the taxpayer by requiring more of them, more funds from them, in order to fund a government that we have yet decided how we should come to grips with rightsizing. And I say rightsizing because until we come, until we understand our responsibility to reduce our costs, then any additional tax that we raise from any one of the methods that have been appointed her ewith, is simply going to be a way to put more money into the kitty. Now, you know the expression, the Peter Principle, which effectively says that work expands to suit the time that is allocated thereto? The same thing applies when it comes to money. If you have an extra $147 million in the kitty, you are going to spend it. So, we have to be judicious in how we approach the fun ding of our government through the taxation structure because increasing taxes does not grow the economy and it does not create jobs. I think one of the things that we want to make sure that we do in whatever our choices are is that the job element i s able to be supported in the private sector where we are able to create an environment which assists job growth. So, until we bring our spending under control then whatever additional revenues are coming in are basically just going to stress and strain the taxpayer without controlling what it is that it is g oing to be utilised towards.
[Crosstalk]
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: We have a r esponsibility — The Speaker: Members, Members. One person speaking.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: —as we look at the recommendations that have been made, it is i mportant for us to start to drill down on some of the things that have come to us as support for the pr oposals of new taxes. Now, in those proposals we have a tax on rental income—commercial and residential. We have a recommendation for a G eneral Services Tax. We have a recommendation for a managed services tax. We have a recommendation for interest and dividends tax and, to a certain extent, some reforms towards our payroll tax and our visitor tax structur e. Now, Mr. Speaker, there are certain things that as we evaluate them, and certainly as I —I would not even say we, as I —evaluate them, I start to look at how best do we achieve the optimum result for the rightsizing of our taxation. And it must be predic ated upon how we manage our spending. There are ind ividuals who, when they receive money, if they are 100 per cent ranked with their neighbour, we will find that the choices that they make and their prioritisation of how they spend what is available to them will be significantly different person to person. So, what are we looking at? We, first of all, have to recognise that our community, our economy, our country, our jurisdiction, is under severe attack from external forces. So we are being required . . . as we may have alluded to earlier, my honourable colleague mentioned that we should be sending a Bill to, you know, certain powers that be to whom we are answerable and who expect us to provide certain cond itions in order to satisfy their oversight becaus e they cannot be as successful as we are as a jurisdiction, that we have taken time to build and that we have tremendous pride in to ensure that what we have is appropriate. So, we want to realise, though, that we are going to be deemed to be . . . well, we have striven hard to ensure that the label of being a tax haven does not stick. We have done a tremendous job, all administrations from day one, from way back in the 1960s all the way up to 2018. We have had the type of regulatory environment that ensur es that our regulatory ratings remain pristine. Because in the absence of this, we find ourselves unable to borrow at preferential rates and, therefore, the cost of borrowing goes up and as you end up with deficits in your budget which you may have to fund in order to reduce them, to have the cash flow, then you want to make sure that the money that comes in is appropriate for what you spend. But to keep that on an even keel, we have to make a commitment that we are not going to grow exponentially for the c osts that we have, so then we are required to bring more money in. Now, if the Minister is saying or thinking that because we have large debt that he wants to, perhaps maybe on an even one- off basis, have sufficient addiBermuda House of Assembly tional money to go towards paying d own that debt, that is one thing. But the important thing is that the balance between revenue and expenditure is what Government is expected to [achieve] because we are not there to make a profit off of the backs of our peo-ple. What we have to look for is where the stimulus is, because that is —
[Inaudible interjections]
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: That is what we have. And Honourable Member from [constitue ncy] 32 will forgive me for not being in the position to genuflect every time he says something needs to be so, because it is important that we evaluate where we are in an appropriate manner so that we do not find ourselves continuing to go down the path that was forged between 1998 and 2012, so that we find ourselves way, way, way behind the eight ball. You will look at the graphs of the increase in the debt during that period of time and see how it ba llooned out of proportion. You will see that. You will also see that when we got to 2012 and into 2016 . . . I am sorry, 2017, that we had the necess ity . . . first off, I think my honourable colleague alluded to it a little earlier, that within three weeks of taking over the Government, we had to borrow money to meet the payroll. Such was the tenuous position that we found ourselves in. As a result of that, we could not afford to continue to go down that same path, so we had to put in different measures than might have been accus-tomed, than we might have been accustomed to as a country. But, let us start to look at some of the new proposed taxes that have come, that have been recommended.
[Inaudible interjections]
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: So, there is going to be —
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMembers, Members. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin : —a tax on rental income.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYou all will have the o pportunity. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: They will all have the opportunity to speak, Mr. Speaker . There is tax, as a proposal, on rental i ncome —commercial and residential. Now, Mr. Speaker, we have, if one would look, a land tax which is …
You all will have the o pportunity. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: They will all have the opportunity to speak, Mr. Speaker . There is tax, as a proposal, on rental i ncome —commercial and residential. Now, Mr. Speaker, we have, if one would look, a land tax which is based on t he annual rental value of a property. So, if there is already a tax on the ARV, to then put an add itional tax on residential properties (or commercial properties) seems like double taxation—seems like double taxation. Now, what . . . if the Government finds it appropriate to alter the rates and bands of existing taxes on land, according to the ARV (which is annual rental value) the Government chooses to alter the bands to be able to generate more income. Then that perhaps is a recommendation that they might want to look at. But, to bring another tax on top of a tax that you already have does not seem to be fair. Now, even though the recommendations —
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Point of order, Mr. Speaker. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: —allow for — The S peaker: We will take the point of order.
POINT OF ORDER Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: The point of order is that the recommendations were made by the Tax Reform Commission. Government has not decided to do an ything, other than to review the recommendation to make an assessment.
[Inaudible interjections]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Continue on, Member. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: I said if the Go vernment chooses to adopt the recommendation that was made by the Commission that they embodied, that would be an option. I did not say that Government had decided on all of these. Truth be told, …
Thank you. Continue on, Member. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: I said if the Go vernment chooses to adopt the recommendation that was made by the Commission that they embodied, that would be an option. I did not say that Government had decided on all of these. Truth be told, I would like to see very few of these actually being implemented in the short term. However, with that said—
[Inaudible interjections]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerSpeak to us. Members, she is speaking to the Chair. Members, Members. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: With that said, Mr. Speaker, I would certainly like to see—
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMembers. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: I would certainly like to see how these recommendations actually filter their way through to the next budget. I would be very curious to see that. [Inaudible interjections] Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: So, what I want to say was that with the ARV, …
Members.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: I would certainly like to see how these recommendations actually filter their way through to the next budget. I would be very curious to see that.
[Inaudible interjections] Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: So, what I want to say was that with the ARV, as I said, it is based on rental value. So, to impose another tax on top of a tax 372 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly and call it a rental tax when we already have a rental tax, an ARV tax, I am not sure that this is fair or appropriate. There are recommendations from the report in which there would be a base over which this additio nal money wou ld not be charged. And that can all be tweaked in one application to make sure that we are not double taxing individuals. We also looked at what they spoke to, which was the hotel occupancy tax coming down to 5 per cent from 7.5 per cent as recommended by CARTAC in 2015. The only thing that I would want to highlight here is that with some of the vacation rentals, such as the Airbnb properties, we have just imposed a 4.5 per cent tax on that. So, one of two things would have to equalise. Either that 5 per cent will come down to 4.5 [per cent], or the 4.5 [per cent] will go up to 5 [per cent]. But I think it is important that we do not have inequitable bands of taxation if the idea is to harmonise what it is that they are attempting to achieve. But of this additional tax that they are recommending, there is $41 million that they have ind icated may come in as a result of implementing this particular tax and tax on rentals. Now, I just wanted to point out a couple of things, if I may, Mr. Speaker .
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYes, you may. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: And that is to go back somehow to first principles and we have to co nsider, as I started to say at the outset, what are taxes for and if they are required to fund government oper ations and programmes. Let us …
Yes, you may.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: And that is to go back somehow to first principles and we have to co nsider, as I started to say at the outset, what are taxes for and if they are required to fund government oper ations and programmes. Let us look at that. Let us look at that. And let us not say that we are going to come up from a governmental perspective with so much revenue that we have drained from our people because we have not gotten the mix correct. There is only so much blood, if any, that you can get from a stone. And I think it is important that we do not provide the opportunity which says we have got more, therefore we spend more. I am concerned about the negative impact on GDP growth. We have seen now t hat our economy is effectively on a downward spiral. It is mainly caused by activities in the IB sector. It is caused by activities in the IB sector. And what happens, the IB sector is a significant, reliable investor in our public purse— and I say “investo r” using it loosely. They are the part of our economy where we can guarantee their payroll tax is going to be paid on time. Their business taxes, albeit they go to the BMA, are paid on time. That is the model by which they operate. But most of our payroll tax coming from our international business is done online, it is done on time and it is as good as guaranteed as far as the public purse is concerned. So, we do not want to do things that are assisting job destruc-tion. You might know very recently, Mr. Speaker, that we had the merger of Tokio Millennium, which was subsumed in the corporate structure of RenRe. So, the people who used to be employed by the individual entities may find the necessity to . . . there will be some redundancies, and there may not necessarily be all of the ability to get new jobs in the similar industry that would help to replace the income that is being lost, or the revenue that is being lost, by the mergers and the acquisitions. So, we have to make sure that we consider all of those aspects as we look at the recommendations that were made by the tax Reform Commission. Now, I want to also thank, as the Minister did, the work that was done by the Tax Reform Commi ssion. Effectively that we recognise that they were tasked with a diffi cult proposition because . . . it being one-sided —let us get some revenue, but do not mess with our expenditure. So, we want to look at some of the other recommendations . . . or, I wish to look at some of the other recommendations. The General Services T ax— now, that was something that I think was recommend-ed before. It was part of the CARTAC review and from that GST, it was going to be a 5 per cent tax levied on services and applicable to certain classes of business (over $250,000 annual turnover —and that is on a twoyear rolling basis). And the idea of that was that there would be an extra $27.5 million infused into the economy on the GST. So, the question is, as that tax could be considered as an option, how is that going to impact the cost of doing bus iness in Bermuda and will that exacerbate what we have seen in the M&As (mergers and acquisitions) and the impact on our workforce . . . which has a snowballing, knock -on effect because what will happen is that when you do not have the employees out there working. Then you do not get the payroll tax. When you do not get the payroll tax, you cannot pay the bills. When you cannot pay the bills, you do not have enough money. You either have to get more money or you got to borrow some. And you have to be able t o keep your current account current. And this is one of the challenges that we have. So whatever considerations that we put in place . . . and this was deemed to be a medium -term proposition. Whatever we put in place, we have to consider the final impact. And I do not know whether you remember, Mr. Speaker, way back in the 1970s, I want to believe. We had what was then called the “hospital levy.” It started off being something, to all intents and purposes, miniscule in its application with the idea of payi ng for the construction of the new hospital that went up on Point Finger Road, which effec-tively replaced the old structure that existed there from time immemorial. Well, that hospital levy, once it was established, somehow two or three years later the then Government decided that this was a reasonably
Bermuda House of Assembly sure source of income so, therefore, we are going to utilise this as part of our regular revenue stream. So, what has happened subsequent to that with the recommendations that we see here, is that if the Go vernment’s intention is to utilise additional re venue so that there is extra money to pay something off . . . and none of us wants to [say] that $188 million which we are expending now on debt servicing, that this is appropriate. You know, that is bigger t han most of the ministries that we assign money to in our annu-al budgets. But once you get that taxation, it does not go away. So, I am less inclined to be enamoured with something to say, Let us get as much as we can now and put it in the kitty because we have got some debt out there that has to be repaid and let us get as much as we can. Because once it is implemented, it is not going to go away. So, we have looked at interest and dividend withholding tax. Now, that is interesting. I think, Mr. Speaker, nobody wants to pay more tax. Nobody is clamouring and chomping at the bit to say, Charge me more. I put my hand up. I will pay you more. I will pay you more. I will pay you more. Nobody wants that. But what we do want is an efficient and effective utilisation of the funds that come into the government coffers. So, it is important that when we look at interest and dividend withholding tax there are some challenges. There are people for whom their only income are their dividends. So, we do not want to squee ze more from that pot to increase the revenue base and think that in the process we might have accomplished . . . we might have won the battle, but we will lose the war. And the significant numbers of people who have investments and dividends that are comi ng in, a lot of them are our seniors. I remember when the Bank of Butterfield started running into challenges under the former PLP administration. And I can remember the then Finance Minister, the Honourable Minister Cox, bringing legi slation to this House to bolster the balance sheet, as it were, of the Bank of Butterfield so that it did not go under. But, as a result of that exercise, or the result of the challenges that led to the requirement for that ex-ercise, there was a necessity for the bank to decide that they were no longer going to declare dividends for a fixed period of time and a number of people were hurt as a result of that —the seniors. You will know, Mr. Speaker, I play tennis. I go to my tennis club and sometimes —
[Inaudible interjecti ons]
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: —I talk to some people who actually would be— [Laughter]
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: I would talk to people at the club and they would lament the loss of their primary revenue to the point that, I cannot co ntinue to be a member of the club. I cannot pay my fees. I cannot pay my club dues for next year because I do not have that revenue coming in. So, when we start looking at interest and dividend withholding tax, some people do not have the benefits of having di vidend, and we recognise that. And we recognise that it is important for people who do not have dividends from which tax can be withheld to have a safety net within our community. But that is where we bring in some of our other social services, Financial A ssistance (when it is necessary) and whatever other supporting bases that we need to employ to ensure that they are not left out of the loop. But when we start to drain, in some instances, the only means that some people have, it is difficult. It is diffic ult for them. Now, Mr. Speaker, let us look at payroll tax. I spoke briefly earlier in terms of what M&As do to pa yroll tax base, and what that effectively will end up d oing is minimising what we have come to historically rely on as being a given. So, if our payroll tax does not sustain the levels that it has done historically in terms of the balance that it provides, then we can find ourselves just slipping, slipping, slipping, slipping again — slipping back. So, it was one of the recommendations that perh aps we look at increasing a different payroll tax band and maybe even upping the upper band, but in terms of their total taxable remuneration. And I think it was being recommended that it go up to $1 million. I think historically, or presently, it is $900,000, if not $950,000, annually. My concern there is simply that when we have major executives who are the ones who are really the million- dollar -plus earners who work for corporations that are multifacet-ed and multinational, that Bermuda is not the be all , end all for them. So, therefore, lots of them . . . if we start to say we are going to tax that additional, you know, we are going to take it up to $1 million or whatever your salary is, and we are going to tax you on all of that, they will end of with one of two choices. And I know what the choice actually will end up being, because we do not have a double taxation relief treaty that will prevent somebody who is in those upper bands of income—
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker, point of order.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerWe will take your point of order. Member, if you will yield. POINT OF ORDER [Misleading] Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: The Member may be ina dvertently misleading the House. The tax on payroll, as per the report, it is actually recommended that it be cut, and the $1 million threshold …
We will take your point of order. Member, if you will yield.
POINT OF ORDER [Misleading] Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: The Member may be ina dvertently misleading the House. The tax on payroll, as per the report, it is actually recommended that it be cut, and the $1 million threshold is actually a tax cut on payrolls that exceed $1 million. It will be tax relief 374 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly for those companies that actually had payrolls exceed ing $1 million.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Minister. Member. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Yes, I will accept that point of order, the interjection by the Minister. I am appreciative of it. But I think it is also important to recogni se the point that I really wanted to make is that whatever we do …
Thank you, Minister. Member.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Yes, I will accept that point of order, the interjection by the Minister. I am appreciative of it. But I think it is also important to recogni se the point that I really wanted to make is that whatever we do with payroll tax, we have to make sure that we do not dissuade, that we do not have a disincentive for people who are at the upper bands of taxation to find that they are ending up paying twi ce— both in our jurisdiction and then secondarily in the j urisdiction of their domicile because when that happens, there is no . . . there is no “warm and fuzzy” feeling to stay in our jurisdiction. It is like, if I am going to pay more, why am I going to move?—I am sorry — Why am I going to stay here? I can move to a different jurisdiction where there is a comparable benefit or better benefit for me. And whether our payroll tax goes up or down, they are still caught in that nexus of where we are in terms of t he charges of payroll tax. Customs duty and excise tax. It is important, obviously, that we reduce the cost of staple food items and of children’s clothing because that is one thing that assists our families, our average everyday fam ilies, to ensure that they can live and sustain themselves. So, I looked at the target that the Minister wanted to implement, excuse me, that the Commi ssion had a mandate to try to strive towards and that target of 20 per cent of GDP is quite an arbitrary number because that number actually will generate somewhere on the order of maybe $50 million more than we need on an annual going- forward basis to equalise revenue and expenditure. So, we need to be mindful of that. The question that had to beg was, are we going to ringfence where the international business comes down, vis -à-vis, what happens with the local businesses? And we have to be mindful that we do not have preferential treatments so that we are looked on as being something other than an equitable tax jurisdiction. So, notwithstanding the negative affect on the economy, and without examining and taking a hold of and arresting big expenditure, it was going to be very difficult for the Tax Reform Commission to fulfil their mandate of trying to come up with a 20 per cent of GDP. The . . . in case it was . . . which I know I will hear. I heard it earlier in the last debate that we had, not meaning to reflect, but we are always going to get this, The OBA did this. You know, We did it this way. You guys did that. Yes. And w e did raise taxes at a time when nobody wanted an increase in taxes. But as I had mentioned earlier, it was essential to keep us from falling off the cliff and going into the economic abyss. So, I do not want to see us make the mistake of using a flawed l ogic to raise tax to an extent that is greater than that which we need. I cannot stress enough the equalisation necessity. They obviously need to be able to suggest . . . and it would have been nicer if they had come to say, This is what our committee has recommended. These are what we think might be appropriate avenues to consider . As opposed to leaving a wide open and open- ended report that says, Go pick out of what whatever you will . And, you know, as long as we can get to Budg et day and at Budget day we can say we had a debate on this in the House of Assembly that somehow gives us the ability to impose taxes that we might look at when we come to a March Budget time that we might be concerned about the impact. Now, foreign curr ency purchase tax. While it does not yield an awful lot, I am not sure the extent to which increasing it to 1.75 per cent from 1 per cent is going to deter people . . . so, that will contribute som ething to the kitty and that is something that is, to all intents and purposes, voluntary; it is choice. People can decide, I work in Bermuda and, yes, I will send money to wherever I send it . But if we are not mindful of how it is that we impose these taxes, we might find ourselves in a situation of encouraging people, irr espective for the foreign currency purchase tax, to send as much as possible wherever they send it, and not leave the expendable income to generate itself throughout our own economy. Because that obviously is the ultimate. The ultimate is that w e want to make sure that people who work here take as much of their money and put it into our economy. That is what we want. And we want to make sure that whatever the Go vernment chooses to adopt, once all is said and done, with their consideration of the recommendations that have come from the Tax Reform Commission, that we do not find ourselves continuing down the slippery slope. We do not want to kill the energy that we are trying to generate in our community. Now, the Minister indicated that some of the criticisms that he has had is that we seem to have a challenge collecting the money that is already due to Government. And the one thing that we know histor ically from time immemorial, people do not prioritise government debt. You know, government fees. It is like when you have to do up your budget. The average person will say, you know, I owe land tax, I owe rent, I owe electricity, I owe telephone, I owe groceries. They are going to pay groceries. They are going to pay rent. They are going to pay, you k now, all the things that they . . . they are not going to pay the go vernment fee. They have to pay payroll tax because it is deducted at the source. So, to the extent that people work for som ebody, they will not pay . . . I mean, they have no
Bermuda House of Assembly choice but t o pay the payroll tax. But for people who are self -employed, the challenge that we have there is, are they going to stand up and make their fair share contribution to the economy when there is no penalty. There is no penalty. Okay. So, on a payroll tax if you are late, there is some charge that is levied, if you are late. I can recall, I would want to say from the 1970s, if not the mid- 1980s, I can remember every single audit report that came through this House showed a particular establishment in Pembrok e North that owed thousands [in] taxes. Not just . . . I mean, basically they had not paid payroll tax. They had not paid pensions for their employees. They had not paid social insurance for their employees. And that ends up having a negative impact on those employees when it comes time for retirement. So, the attitude that we have had historically of giving people a slide, let us give them a pass because they have not paid the government fees, there is no real punitive incentive to be able to say we are going to start collecting this. Once in a while you might get the Attorney General’s chambers or the Depar tment of Public Prosecutions going out and saying we are going to do a concerted collection effort for the money that is already owed to us that is on the books. And guaranteed, if we had some of that money, Mr. Speaker , if we had a lot of that money, we would be in less dire straits in certain circumstances than we find ourselves in now. So, it is important that we prioritise the collection of what we presently have as receivables before we start thinking that we got to go raise some more money. So, I obviously am concerned. I do not want to see that . . . historically we have had a taxation of our active income (our payroll and the like). But when we start moving towards our passive income, some of which is the difference between someone being able to pay for a mortgage or not, or someone being able to have their rents paid if they are relying on some dividends that they have, if they chose to invest and not purchase a house, but they decided that, I am going to invest my money in the stock market. I am going to get my dividends and interest income. And now that money could go to keep a roof over their head or go to salt away some for a rainy day, becaus e, clearly, the pensions that we saw are not going to cut it if we have only a government pension and if people do not have occupational pensions to fall back on as well. And the construct of the occupational pensions is such that unless you are extremely , you know, low risk —extremely low risk —you put your money in an account, in a pension account, and that money is sitting there for the pension operators to do with whatever they will, given your risk tolerance. And then you find out that the market crashes because somebody decided they are going to start a trade war with China and then the market goes, you know, hits rock bottom. And what you thought you had in terms of a fund for your pensions has now been salted away. So, that is one of the challenges that we have when we start to think in terms of whether we are going to further tax dividends and interest income at a point when it is already being subjected to a volatile environment in the stock markets that determine whether they in fact will get divi dends or not. We just want to make sure that whatever considerations we are coming up with . . . this debate in my estimation, is not a critical . . . it is not to criticise the Government. The Government has chosen to have a Commission. The Commission has come up with recommendations, and I see it as our responsibi lity to say whether we agree with the recommendations, we do not agree with the recommendations, or what would we do differently. Because I think that notwithstanding that this debate is intended to debate just the report, it would be remiss of us if we failed to give other recommendations of things that we think that might be appropriate that could conceivably be considered. So, Mr. Speaker, I am going to allow other Members to contribute to the debate. I know that what we already pay for in the taxes that we pay out we are not getting that which we pay for. I refer specifically to things like no trash collection, poor roads, poor light-ing in certain areas. So, if we do not get what we are presently paying for, how can we optimise what we are providing from what we presently have, and how can we cull any wastage that exists before we start trying to squeeze blood out of a stone from our population, some of whom are already cash strapped and hard done by? So, if we can start looking at some penalties for delinquencies from a governmental perspective, it is a real bad idea if you want to be pol itical because nobody is going to remember come election time that, you know, O h, we really needed to collect what we had. We passed a couple of weeks ago the Debt Collection Act, but government is not subjected to that. So we do not have that ability to s ort of send som ebody out on an external basis to say go collect my debts. But we do have a mechanism within the government in the DPP that they can actually go out and start to collect debts. So, these are things that I just want to consi der. We need to m ake sure that we do have something set aside for a rainy day because right now our rainy - day fund is non- existent. So, as we look at the recommendations of tax reform, it is important that we make representation on behalf of our population, that we do not support something which looks like it may put them in worse and more dire straits than they probably [are in] at the moment. Mr. Speaker, I think that the contribution to this debate in the absence of a method or a guidance or an intention by the Governm ent based on the recommendations that they got is perhaps a little unfort u376 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly nate, because we could then explore better and deeper what might be appropriate or where we might have variances and how we can look at alternatives. But with that said, Mr. Speaker , I will allow others to contribute to the debate and I appreciate the opportunity to make my contribution. Thank you, Mr. Speaker .
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member. Does any other Honourable Member wish to contribute to this debate? We recognise the Honourable Member from [constituency 6] Furbert, Junior Minister? Yes, Junior Minister, you have the floor. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . Mr. Speaker, allow me at least five to …
Thank you, Honourable Member. Does any other Honourable Member wish to contribute to this debate? We recognise the Honourable Member from [constituency 6] Furbert, Junior Minister? Yes, Junior Minister, you have the floor.
Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . Mr. Speaker, allow me at least five to seven minutes to wear my political hat, and then thereafter I will speak on behalf, as part of the . . . on the Commission, as part of the . . . on the committee. But, Mr. Speaker, I heard the Honourable Member say that the report . . . we should either agree, disagree, or what would we do different. What I have not heard from them is what would they suggest we do different.
[Inaudible interjections]
Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: I have not heard from them. So, the Progressive Labour Party believes in consult ation. In such a degree, Mr. Speaker, as you will recall last year for the pre- budget report, we went out for consultation. And, so there is no difference, and I b elieve that the Minister of Finance will once again, after looking at the report, putting down suggestions on options that he may consider and go back into the field to look at what consultation the Government should do. That is the basic way it should happen. But, Mr. Speaker, why did the Government decide to set up a committee, which was put in their platform, to look at taxes? Because of the inequality of our tax system. I think first we have to accept, on both sides, that the tax system that we currently have is not equitable or fair. If we can accept that, then we c an move on, on how do we make it equitable or fair. If you do not want to accept that first, then we are at a standstill or standoff. If you recall, Mr. Speaker —
[Timer beeps ] Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Are my five minutes up for political speech?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerNot yet. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: —but that the Government, the former Government, was going to increase payroll tax this budget from 10.25 per cent to 11.25 per cent, payroll tax on the employer and also additional payroll tax on the employee. What we did when we came in and …
Not yet.
Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: —but that the Government, the former Government, was going to increase payroll tax this budget from 10.25 per cent to 11.25 per cent, payroll tax on the employer and also additional payroll tax on the employee. What we did when we came in and said we would not increase payroll tax on the em-ployer and . . . as a matter of fact, Mr. Speaker, we decreased payroll tax on the employee. So, we went from 5.25 per cent for the first $48,000 down to 4.0 per cent between 0.0 [per cent] and 48 per cent [sic]. So, Mr. Speaker, tax on labour has been a problem. From 1995, when payroll tax came in by a former Minister, that is the only thing they looked at. But there are thousands of people out in this country, Mr. Speaker, who are m aking millions of dollars and not paying a cent on it. But Mr. and Mrs. Smith who made $1,000 were paying a larger portion of their salary on the cost of goods and service in Bermuda because payroll tax was on everything that she or he had. So, that is the premise that the Tax Reform Committee started. How do we make it more fair and equitable? Now, let me say, Mr. Speaker, there were very few people who put their hand up when we had the 400some people appear before the Committee and said, I want to pay more taxes —500 individuals. And, Mr. Speaker, those members, the people that we saw started from parliamentarians, we met them. And, as a matter of fact, Mr. Speaker, I do not recall too many suggestions. We had ABIC [Association of Bermuda International C ompanies], ABIR [Association of Bermuda Insurers and Reinsurers], Chamber of Com-merce, retail, construction. We had Age Concern, Bermuda Tourism Authority, Bermuda Hotel Associ ation, [Bermuda] Trade Union Congress [BTUC], Bermuda Bar [Association], People’ s Campaign, PLP Members, OBA Members —and the list goes on.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberIt was bipartisan. [Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr., Deputy Speaker, in the Chair] Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: This is bipartisan. Matter of fact, the Honourable Member Jeanne Atherden and I were on the committee. So, we were trying to work to find something that we felt, the Progressive Labour Party …
It was bipartisan. [Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr., Deputy Speaker, in the Chair]
Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: This is bipartisan. Matter of fact, the Honourable Member Jeanne Atherden and I were on the committee. So, we were trying to work to find something that we felt, the Progressive Labour Party . . . the Premier, said, Let’s find a way that we take this country together. So, now we have before us, Mr. Speaker, a roadmap. Two roadmaps, Mr. Deputy Speaker, a roadmap for a SAGE report which the Honourable Member s, opposite, the former Government, put in place —[but] which never implemented a thing to cut expenditure. And we have a roadmap also, Mr. Deputy Speaker, off revenue. Mr. Deputy Speaker, we cannot continue on the path that we are going because I did not hear from the Honourable Member who just took her seat of how to . . . what revenue she would accept. And she did not say which expenditure she would cut. She r emembers the walks around this Parliament over time when they took the furloughs days. They also reme mBermuda House of Assembly ber, Mr. Deputy Speaker, the other certain expend iture that the Government tried to make. So, how do we find a balance between cutting expenditure, maki ng things more efficient, and raising revenue? There is no doubt, Mr. Deputy Speaker, $118 million of interest that the Government pays a year is too much. So we have got to find a way to get into a surplus, and both of us are in a profession t ogether, so we understand that we need to be in a positive mode if we are going to move forward. Mr. Deputy Speaker, there is no doubt that our debt increased up [by] 2013 to $1.4 billion. Mr. Deputy Speaker, the Progressive Labour Party was responsible for increasing on average of $98 million per year. But, Mr. Deputy Speaker, we are all guilty, because if I point my finger at some over there, there are four fingers pointing back at [me]. Under the O pposition, under the former Government, the OBA, they increased the debt, the net debt of $2.4 billion, an average of $230 million per year. So there is enough to go around for all of us. Hence why I believe what the Premier said, Let’s find a way to move this forward together. Let us find a way. We have not increased debt for this year. The Government has made a commitment that they will not increase the debt next year. But expenditure still continues to rise sometimes because there are sal aries that were not given to the civil servants for years. This Government made a c ommitment not only to help our seniors but to ensure that civil servants get a reasonable increase. So, here we find ourselves. The biggest debt that we have, the biggest expenditure, is salary. The next, Mr. Deputy Speaker, is contribution. And that contribution includes our hospital, BTA, BDA, and the list goes on. So, it is very hard to say let us slice up. But what we did, Mr. Deputy Speaker, is say that the expenditure this year would be the same as it was in 2017. So, we have not increased expenditure and our deficit went down this year. And if it goes according to the plan from the Tax Commission, we could d ecrease that even more, or depending on how far the Government goes, possibly break even, based on the Tax Reform suggestion. So, Mr. Deputy Speaker, we are all in this boat together. Mr. Deputy Speaker, let me remind this Honourable House—for some of you who were not around at that time—that in 1999 there was a tax r eport. Mr. Deputy Speaker , let me just say, at that time, guess what was some of the reference? Improve pr ogressivity and their overall system of taxation, i ncrease tax revenue to 24 per cent of GDP. Mr. Deputy Speaker, another tax report was done in 2017 by the former Government, by CARTAC. It was their sugges tion, Mr. Deputy Speaker, to intr oduce the GST. That GST was supposed to be impl emented in October of 2017, if they were still the Go vernment. We are starting to hold out to do a compr e-hensive look on what direction we will go regarding taxes. So, Mr. Deputy Speaker, enough is enough. We continually do reports, have recommendations from very intelligent individuals, and we do nothing about it. Our reports go on our shelves and just sit there for . . . and we are all at fault. But we are in a position right now of asking ourselves where we want to go. Do we want to make taxes more equitable and fair? Or do we not? If you answer that question, then you have to go after tax revenue that you have never gone after before. You cannot say you are going to make i t fairer by increasing payroll tax, and say that this is fairer and equitable because you are going after the same people—Mr. Smith who made $1,000 paying 8 per cent this year, and so let me make, maybe we can make it more fairer and equitable by increasing it to 9 per cent. That is not fair and equitable. When ind ividuals are making millions of dollars on other trans-actions and not paying taxes on some of them at all. It was not by chance that we said that we would increase it by looking at tax revenue based on GDP by 20 per cent. The Cayman Islands is 24 per cent. The UK Government went down there and said this is what you have to do if you want to move in [the right] direction. We were at 17 per cent of GDP and all we are saying now is, how can we get t o 20 per cent? I tell you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, if we got to 24 per cent it would be too much for a Government to move forward. It would be a lot of money for the Government to collect, but too much. You are right. We cannot. You should not be over taxing. But how can we do it? So, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I notice that the Honourable Member did not say . . . Mr. Deputy Speaker, how much time do I have left, first of all?
The Deputy SpeakerDeputy SpeakerYou have about 17 [minutes]. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Seventeen minutes. Mr. Deputy Speaker, I noticed that the Ho nourable Member . . . and I am going to get into some of the recommendations, because I think it is i mportant. What was our train of thought, first of …
You have about 17 [minutes]. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Seventeen minutes. Mr. Deputy Speaker, I noticed that the Ho nourable Member . . . and I am going to get into some of the recommendations, because I think it is i mportant. What was our train of thought, first of all, on taxing or looking on a tax report? What was it? And I have to say, we met for nine months, twice a week, around the clock, me and individuals asking . . . one recommendation from a young lady . . . and we had more recommendations from young people than we had from ABIC, ABIR, politicians, and the whole lis t of them. Some of them supported, Mr. Deputy Speaker, income tax. Young people. Black and white. Mr. Deputy Speaker, one young lady felt that we should put a toll booth down on East Broadway. I said, You can do one on East Broadway, but you will not do o ne in Hamilton Par ish. [Laughter] 378 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: So, that recommendation failed. But that would not have been equitable or fair. But, Mr. Deputy Speaker, the first thing we asked ourselves is how do . . . and you have heard this Government from time to time say that payroll tax is prohibitive to growth. So, the Honourable Member earlier [asked], How do we stimulate ? So, what we did in April of this year was say that any new increase over the net amount of staff you have as of March 31st, there would be no payroll tax for new employees going forward for three years. And with the option of the Minister of Finance to increase it. B ecause it was a stimulus in saying we want more bus iness in Bermuda. We want mor e . . . we want companies to hire more staff and that was our stimulus. And we are seeing some progress in that. We are seeing some progress in that. The Honourable Opposition Leader is shaking his head. Mr. Deputy Speaker, despite reducing pa yroll tax la st year lower than the Government had the year before, our payroll tax is up for the first six months. So, Mr. Deputy Speaker, let us get back to the payroll tax. There are significant numbers of people who are making under $48,000. And so we said, why should they pay? We are recommending that they should pay 0.0 per cent tax. Some people say, Yeah, well, somebody should pay some tax. Well, that is up to the Minister, at the end of the day, to decide, to make a decision. The recommendation from the commit tee was no payroll tax for those between, that make between zero and $48,000. And then we said, let us bring down payroll tax for the employer. Let us bring it down. So, by d oing that Mr. Deputy Speaker, it will hopefully stimulate new hires because the e mployer payroll tax is approved to grow. We put a new band, because normally the band went from 1.75 per cent if you were making, if your payroll, I think it was, under $200[,000] or $250,000. Then it jumps to 7 per cent. So we put a band in there for 3.5 [per cent] to cause more growth in small business. And, Mr. Deputy Speaker, with the recommendation, our payroll tax will [go] from $454 million down to $430 million. So, how do we make up the di fference? Again, we said payroll tax . . . sorry, payroll tax was inequitable, and it was not fair. Or our tax sy stem was not fair. This withholding tax, Mr. Deputy Speaker, of . . . or management and services tax was an idea that came from some of our accounting pr ofessionals. Because what they realised, Mr. Deputy Speaker, was that there were individuals coming to Bermuda competing against even themselves (accounting firms, law firms, actuaries, and the list goes on) without paying a dime other than coming in here for a plane ticket from New York —$430- some dollars—and walking out of here, doing work in New York, doing work in Cayman Islands, doing work in UK and not paying a cent to this Government. So we said, why can we not put in what we call a withholding tax? And the withholding tax works like this: A $100,000 bill comes in from Mr. ABC Com-pany in New York. It is a law firm in New York. They send a bill to AB Insurance. The tax will work with a charge they withhold, ABC Company withholds 5 per cent, sent to the Government and then 95 per cent goes to them. There is no impact on the company, because what we said to them is that, by law, this is what happens. If you want to do work in, do business in Bermuda, you are going to pay 5 per cent. It is not infl ationary because it is not able to be passed on. And do not tell me they will pass it on because at the end of the day that means there is more . . . there is a spiral. Whatever they do, it is a spiral. And then, because most of the large companies . . . it is self -reporting. So, it is not difficult. Then, Mr. Deputy Speaker, [there] was a recommendation for a GST. Now, this GST came under the CARTAC report and came under the OBA. We looked at it and said, Hmm. This looks good. Let us move ahead with it. And the GST works like this . . . and I talked to some of the larger reinsurance industries because there was concern that AB Law firm or AC Accounting firm or whoever is providing the service will pass it on to them. And they said, No, no, we will deal with that. We will negotiate our fees with those companies . So, move ahead with the GST. Again, we felt this was the right move. Mr. Deputy Speaker, the other large increase which had to do with . . . and which is more sensitive, and I accept that. But commercial rent, Mr. Deputy Speaker. For over hundreds of y ears individuals who have commercial [rental properties] in Bermuda paid very low taxes. What do I mean by that? Because they have normally what they call a “London lease” and pass all their expenses on to the person who is leasing the property —the land tax, service tax, wha tever it is. And so they charge a million dollars for their rent for the year and they basically walk away with a million dollars. It was felt that it was time for them to pay something on their commercial rent [income]. They benefit by the Government of the day providing a sy stem to allow them to thrive and grow within the indus-try. That is why. And we held it. We were going to do it this year, and we put the land tax on. Now, I accept that people were charged a land tax. Well, the land tax had a sunset clause, meaning the next year the land tax disappears. So, why shouldn’t Mr. Smith who owns a six storey, or whatever, a five storey, and making over a million dollars, not pay anything on that? Mr. Deputy Speaker, the other one was to do with . . . so that was commercial rent. Now, I accept, Mr. Deputy Speaker , and we had a long debate on residential rent. This is being recommended by the Tax Reform Committee. Not necessarily does the
Bermuda House of Assembly Government at the end of the day have to accept it. It is up to them. But, Mr. Deputy Speaker, what we recognised was that anyone whose ARV was under $22,000 would not pay a rental income tax, a rental tax. But, Mr. Deputy Speaker, as I said to a banker once, why should a person who has 99 houses . . . and, Mr. Deputy Speaker, for some reason that banker knew exactly what I was talking about. That was strange. I do not think we ever said it and Jeanne . . . I am sorry, the Honourable Member Jeanne Atherden, was in the room. They told me, 99 homes on an average, [would earn] say $1,000 each. They would get $99,000 a month times 12, and not pay a cent. That cannot be fair. When Mrs. Smith makes $1,000 and pays tax on all her income. Now, it is up to the Government to decide how they should move ahead. But what we have put in place is a balance for those grandmas, grandpas, and even people of this House, who have ARVs under certain ARV s, to not be taxed. But those individuals whose ARV is over a certain amount will probably be hit. It is talking about fair and equitable based on the tax reform. I am saying that the Government would move ahead with that. And, Mr. Deputy Speaker, the other one that we moved on was, as I said, payroll tax. But we talked about, and I mentioned it earlier. I am not going to reflec t on the debate but, 1.4 (or whatever) per cent you will be getting to a senior, but reducing cost of staple foods items, once again, and children’s clot hing. Mr. Deputy Speaker, I would have thought that we should be jumping for joy on that one because we hoped that this cost would be passed on to the consumer. The other one, Mr. Deputy Speaker, where the Government, the former Government, failed . . . financial service banks and insurers. Everybody now looks at their insurance invoice and there is a fee and is says “Government fee.” It was never the intent for the Government to pay that fee. We were looking— you were looking, the former Government was looking—at going after the financial service for them to pay, because they make a lot of money. Well, the tax reform is suggesting that you double it. And this time we will make it very clear. It is not going to be passed on to the consumer.
[Inaudible interjections]
Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Not. It will not be named after the Government. And, so the Honourable Member says that it will be passed on. And he is a lawyer; I am an accountant. So, if I am charging $1,000 and we pass on 10 per cent . . . so it is $110. So let us say I am now going to pass it on. Do you know that now you charge 10 per cent of the $110? It keeps on going. Spiral, spiral, spiral. You cannot call it expense. It is called revenue.
[Inaudible interjections]
Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: I will hear the Honourable Member later on to hear how much he wants to pay. Mr. Deputy Speaker, the other part was to look at . . . and the Honourable Member , the only thing I heard supported was the Foreign Currency Purchase Tax, which will get moved from 16- point . . . the current of $22 million up to $38.5 million. Mr. Deputy Speaker, it was also a way t o . . . immigration fees. They tell me that the immigration fees for lawyers, accountants and professionals in the Cayman Islands is about $25,000. We charge $2,000. So, I said to one of my international friends . . . and I will go slow on this. How much t ime do I have left, Mr. Deputy Speaker ?
[Inaudible interjection] Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: I will go slow on this one. And let me explain to you. So, I bring in an actuary, and I charge $500,000 for this actuary. That is how much salary they are and probably more than that. But I am going to give him $500,000. And let us assume that the pa yroll tax is 10 per cent, which now they will not pay. So, they normally would have paid the Government $50,000 per year for five years, [that] would mean they would have paid the Government $250,000. Mr. Deputy Speaker, if the Government decides to move from $2,000 to $10,000 for a work per-mit fee for an actuary, that company would still save $240,000. Here and now we are saying this is where we are talking about g etting more equitable and fairer. All right? Now, these were recommended, to be honest with you, by some of the professionals out there. Mr. Deputy Speaker, the other one was the international company fees. I believe we have got to do a little more work on that. But it was [that] you pay fees based on your capitalisation. And so, because we were reducing payroll tax by 1 per cent, recommended by the Payroll Tax Committee, you will have saved thousands of dollars on payroll tax. Now, let me just say this, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I believe that this is definitely a way to move and [should be] considered by the Government. I had an opportunity to talk to ABIC and ABIR and, Mr. Deputy Speaker, one particular reinsurance company (I will not name, very large). I as ked them, here are the numbers for the payroll tax. Tell me how much payroll tax would you pay next year if the Government moves ahead in this direction. Mr. Deputy Speaker, the pa yroll tax went down. I suggested to the . . . you can get it down further by stopping the paying of payroll tax for their employees , because every local company pays pa y380 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly roll tax for their employees. In the olden days, they used to bring in individuals because it was for competitiveness. But now, Mr. Deputy Speaker, we have got people coming from Canada, from Europe, who are not paying payroll tax. The only country that mainly has to pay payroll tax now is the United States. So, why should they not pay payroll tax like everybody else? But that is up to the company to decide. Not up to us. But we cannot at the end of the day leave payroll tax and stifle ourselves for the employee because certain individuals or certain companies feel it was inappropriate. So, Mr. Deputy Speaker, with the payroll tax reform and with the cost of living report that was put forward, I believe Mr. Deputy Speaker, that we are in for a new dawn. It allows this country to look at what we think is fairer and more equitable. And I understand that those who make more will cry more. and those who make less will hopefully rejoice. So, this allows us to move in a direction that the Government would want us to move. So, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I appreciate the Premier, the former Minister of Finance, for putting myself on the committee. It was a joy working with Mrs. Atherden over those nine months. We had a few jokes. Of course, it had to be political. But, of course, Mr. Deputy Speaker, it allowed us to work together. So, if Mrs. Atherden and I can work together, as a former Leader, then why can we not all work together to move this country forward. Yes, we have to look at the SAGE Report to reduce expenditure. Yes, the Government has put together an Efficiency Committee to look at improving efficiency . . . and I can tell you right now, I chair that committee, and we have. I would love to reveal some stuff to you today (but I will not) [of] how we improve some efficiencies with the Government. And we have now a report for revenue. Let not this report die like every other report that has been written since 1999. Mr. Deputy Speaker, if we fail —
[Timer beeps ] Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: —then we have failed this generation, our current children—
The Deputy SpeakerDeputy SpeakerThank you. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: —and our future generation. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker .
The Deputy SpeakerDeputy SpeakerThe Chair recognises the Ho nourable Member , the Honourable Leader of the Opposition Craig Cannonier. You have the floor, sir. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Thank you, Deputy Speaker. I actually, I think most of us are, just about all of us, I think, that I have talked to, are …
The Chair recognises the Ho nourable Member , the Honourable Leader of the Opposition Craig Cannonier. You have the floor, sir. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Thank you, Deputy Speaker. I actually, I think most of us are, just about all of us, I think, that I have talked to, are quite happy to see a report of the likes. You know, the Honourable Member from constituency 6 who just sat down, enjoys a bit of a political dig. So it would be r emiss of me if I did not say, you know, I am glad. I do not know if it is the fact that somebody bumped their head to get this report done, but since 1998 we have all been looking for fair and equitable taxes. I think that is what led to the victory of 1998. After 20 years, we are finally looking at something concerning taxation that points in that direction. So, I can appreciate the fact that the Honourable Member likes to get political. I will have to remind him of which side he was on at that time in 1998.
Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker . Point of order, point of order.
[Laughter]
The Deputy SpeakerDeputy SpeakerWhat is your point of order? POINT OF ORDER Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: I do not want to . . . I am tr ying my best, because the Honourable Member says the first time for 20 years. I said that we had a report in 1999 and we had …
The Deputy SpeakerDeputy SpeakerThank you. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Yes, if he would have let me finish, what I was going to say is that it looks to be serious intent to have something happen, which is what I am hearing. There seems to be intent to ensure that something is followed through …
Thank you.
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Yes, if he would have let me finish, what I was going to say is that it looks to be serious intent to have something happen, which is what I am hearing. There seems to be intent to ensure that something is followed through on. And that is probably most important because I believe that we, as an OBA party, also believe that action needs to take place as far as a different structure of taxation. But one of the concerns that . . . and I do not want to go through all of the points here. I am going to attempt to stick to a particular area because many other people want to speak to other areas of the r eform. So let me first say thank you to the Commission for the time that they put in, for the work. We recog-nise that these are recommendations that are being made. We also recognise that Bermuda is looking for some way to move forward with this taxation system. One of the things that has continued to concern me as I have grown to, I was going to say gro wing to be a young man, but my grey hair is telling ot herwise, that, you know, we were taught to go away and get an education so that we could come back. And I can remember in the early days especially, Go get an education so you can come back and make a difference. And many of us have come back in this room as a representation of making a difference.
Bermuda House of Assembly But one of the challenges that we do have is that as we look at a taxation system that we improve on . . . and I will say improve on because I do not think there will be a wholesale change of the structure of it right now. But as we look at that, it is important that we do and are fair and equitable. Many who have come along, and I have mentioned some who I was away at university with and the likes, are now struggling in this economy. And Mr. and Mrs. Bermuda, which is who I am referring to, are ha ving real difficulty with renting out homes and the likes. We can see where the economy is today, and so we need something that is fair and equitable. You know, it was rather interesting as I went through here. I am hoping that with these recommendations one of the things that invariably happens when we are not comprehensive with some of the things that we are looking at is that the effect of what it is that we do will invariably be different than the intent. The effect will invariably be different than the intent. Why do I say that? Because here and now, Mr. Depu-ty Speaker, many of . . . and I will go to the retail sector which is my heart. You know, I have retail business and I have many friends, Mr. and Mrs. Bermuda friends who I went to school with who have local bus inesses who at this time are struggli ng in the economy which we do have right now. And we feel that the taxation system is completely unfair and has put us well behind where we should be. And so I am championing the fact that we have a cause here that says let us say how we can make this fai rer and equitable. Now, I have got some challenges with some of the recommendations that are on here because for me, having grown up, you know, came along and was taught to go get an education and go. Some of these things are going to be a bit difficult for someone like myself, self -made, as they say, in the local economy. And so, we are looking for opportunities that with these recommendations will allow for business to thrive. And I am talking about local business. I am talking about Mr. and Mrs. Bermuda and that retail sector in Bermuda. Next to government, who hires the most Bermudians, the retail sector comes in right in behind there as the largest employer of local people. And we can see here and now. We have seen the stats, and what has been put out. Sales are down, consecutively, month after month after month. And what happens is we wind up having to contract and we wind up having to lay off our own Bermudians. So, what we need along with a tax structure, a new tax structure system, is a stimulus i nto the economy. Now, what do I mean by a stimulus into the economy? Well, we had a wonderful report that the . . . and I also want to say, I want to thank the Finance Minister for bringing this forward. I am beginning to actually enjoy him as a Finance Mi nister, so far. It has only been a couple of weeks, but let us see how long the honeymoon lasts, Mr. Deputy Speaker . [Laughter]
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: But I was just reading in the Fiscal Responsibility Panel [Assessment Report], in the very second paragraph. It says, talking about Bermuda and what it needs right now, “But perhaps of greatest concern is the certainty of the island’s shrinking workforce and rapidly ageing population.” And as we go through [these] recommendations we have here, the single most threat . . . and we are just talking about (I am just sticking to the retail sector here) is the fact that we do not have enough people on this Island spending. We have watched businesses, our friends’ businesses, go out of bus iness unable to pay thei r taxes. And so what we have got to do is figure out not only through stimulus of how, you know, we change the taxation system with the number of people that we do have here so that it is fair and equitable, but at the same time we [need to] have new money being injected into the economy so that we will see more entrepreneurship. Right now, if anyone wants to start a bus iness, they are going to look at the business plan and say, I cannot afford it . And one of the areas and one of the reasons why retail will continue to die off in this Island is this one factor alone, which we have not addressed as yet. And that is this: duty is being paid up front. So in order for any entrepreneur coming into the Island . . . he has got to be able to say, Well, look, you know, I need to be able to get enough money in place so that I c an open up, but I have got to have enough inventory and these things . So, if he or she does not have the money themselves, they have got to go somewhere to borrow that money. We now recogni se that the banks, quite frankly, in Bermuda are not friendly to small and medium - sized business. That is just a fact. It is extremely diff icult to go to the bank. It takes you sometimes almost a year just to get something to . . . by that time, you have l ost interest. You have spent everything that you have and now the opportunity is lost. And so at the same time I am so appreciative of the fact that they went through this here, the main issue in here with the retail sector, and they give a recommendation that will help the existing retail bus inesses that are there and for new business —it is gi ven in here. But the reply is kind of stark and it kind of threw me back as to that reality of what they said. And so I will get to that in just a minute. You know, the key . . . I wrote down the note that the Honourable Member that just sat down from constituency 6. He said, How do we find a balance? And that is always a difficult thing. I can remember, you know, watching the excitement as PLP had won the Government in 2017. And when we came back into the House one of the first things I said was, Listen, this is going to be really, really interesting know-ing the fact that we need more people on the Island and one of the greatest issues we have here is immi382 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly gration ref orm. How are we going to get more people into the Island, spending more so that we can grow business ? Because if we are going to add, in this . . . outside of the great three taxes that we have, we are talking about adding another four to this. And, so, i f we are going to add more taxation to the system, because we are not saying that we are doing away with any, we are going to add to it — maybe, you know, take a little more from this area here and add a little more over here. We still have not done anything about the fundamental condition and issue that we have and that is not enough people spending into the tax system that we do have today. And, so, as we start looking at, and I would daresay I am recommending to the Finance Minister, not as a finance pers on, but that we, as we look at making recommendations we have a real push with these new recommendations if we are going to do some of these here, that we have a real push on sti mulating the economy through getting more people here in different industries because therein we will find the balance. But if we go ahead without stimulating the economy (meaning getting more people here) and we add more taxes to the system with the same number of people that we do have today, I go back to what I said before. The effect will invariably be different than what the intent is. And I recognise the pure intent of this here. And I do not want that intent to be lost by not balanc-ing it out by getting more people spending into this Island. Right now, it is difficult for Ber mudians to spend anymore. It is just difficult. And, so we have a real conundrum here. And as I said before, it is going to be rather interesting to see how we manoeuvre through this new structure. It needs to happen, Mr. Deputy Speaker , most definitely ne eds to happen. But let us not, in the intent of making this new structure system happen, lose the very retailers who have been out there struggling today who are in debt trying to ensure that they can pay their taxes right now because they cannot and they are being held responsible for those taxes in a system whereby it is not allowing them to pay it today because there are not enough people paying into the system. No fault of any particular Government. I am not blaming any partic ular Government for that s ituation, many of the retailers found themselves in that position, maybe because of the recession or other things. But we now need to be able to encourage and stimulate business to be able to pay —to be able to pay. And, so I flip over to, you know, we need a taxation. I had so many marks on this thing here. This was a very good read, I must say. It was a very, very good read. And for those of us who have not had the opportunity to really go point for point it will be enlightening for us to go through this here. But if I go over and I will repeat again, we need a tax system that en-courages local job growth. That is what we need. Therein will lie the fair and equity in all of this here. But we have got to ensure that we get people back to working, which I am sure for the Honourable Minister will help as far as financial assistance and all of those things that is burdening for Government. So, I wanted to go over to this . . . this . . . sorry. I am going to flip over to page 34, where it talks about General Services Tax. And, so I just want to go down to (let me put my glasses on, sorry Mr. Deputy Speaker) 2.3.9 and it says there “As a sector,” (talking about retail,) “their overall sales and revenue has declined due, in part, to a reduced customer base.” Straight up, that is the issue. That is the issue. You know, you will hear many times people saying well, you know, He who knows it feels it . Well, I feel it on a regular basis when we start looking at fuel sales (and I will declare my interest having service stations) and to see how fuel sales are now just starting to fall. And usually that is one of the areas where people first start cutting back on, on the amount of fuel that they . . . they do not fill up. And for us now to start seeing people coming in, you know, with coins to pay for putting fuel in a car, it is okay for a bike, but for a car, we know it is getting difficult. So, we need to ensure that the taxation sy stem, as was already said, is fair and equitable which allows them to have more disposabl e income. But at the end of the day, really and truly, allows them to have a job in the first place, and that is where we are lagging. But, anyhow, it goes on, Mr. Deputy Speaker, . . . the 2.3.10 says, “As a sector they asserted that paying import tax upfront before they have an opportunity to recoup any part of their expenses compr omises their cashflow.” And that cash flow rung a bell to me, because, having been in a position where we were doing wonderful, the economy was doing well and I personally with my business not having to go to the bank, we were doing wonderful. The recession came along and everyone was struggling and we saw how people were struggling. And all of a sudden now we have to, as a business, also go to the bank, like many others had to go to the bank and say, Look we need some help. Well, I am glad the recession took place when it did because if you go to the bank today it is not going to happen. It is not going to happen, and this is a real, real challenge. So, when the industry says it needs that cash flow, I am reminded of the fact that what they are basically saying, the retail sector, is, Listen, the banks have now moved from asset lending to your ability to pay back what you borrow. So, no longer can you go to the bank now and say, Well, look, I got some assets, you know, I want to be able to do business. The bank will not even . . . they will not even call you back. I mean, this is ugly where we are right now. And so, that cash flo w allows the businesses who are struggling today to be able to go to the bank and say, Look, I got the cash flow, you know, I just need it up
Bermuda House of Assembly front because I am just trying to keep up with my —at the end of the day —my inventory. And, so if they are able to keep up with their inventory, they can [stay] in business . . . the selling, selling, selling. Even with a reduced market, the cash flow is there. And, so when I talk about this sector . . . and it makes the one single recommendation that will help save it , single -handedly save it. This is the reply that I see. It says, “A sales tax will free up cashflow” —
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberWhat page? Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: I am on page 34— 2.3.11. “A sales tax would free up cashflow and allow the sector to remit tax to t he Government on goods that have been sold and not on their total inventory as is the status quo.” I just explained …
What page?
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: I am on page 34— 2.3.11. “A sales tax would free up cashflow and allow the sector to remit tax to t he Government on goods that have been sold and not on their total inventory as is the status quo.” I just explained all of that, however . . . and this may not be a reference to PLP as a Government. I do not know where this came from, but the answer they say is, “H owever, the Bermuda Government ,” (in 2.3.12) “prefers to collect tax at the point of entry as it is more efficient to administer , and revenue is more predictable. ” Well, with that, if we do not do something about getting more people here now, yo u essentially have just put the last nail in the coffin. And I am not saying PLP as a Government, but that answer puts the last nail in the coffin as to what happens to the retail businesses that are now surviving. And, so my recommendation to the Minister is, please, go back to this particular section right here, the sector that hires, outside of Bermuda government, more local Bermudians than anyone else. Please, go back to this particular area and give it some more attention. And I would be willing to rec ommend many of my friends who are in the retail business and the retail sector. Please, go talk to them. I will send them to the Tax Reform Commission. I will send them to them to have some more conversation. I mean, you know, not everyone is a member of the Chamber of Commerce. Many in the retail sector out there are outside of the Chamber of Com-merce. It would be wonderful to be able to get to a position whereby we understand at this point and juncture, here and now, as you have heard me say before, that it is critical that this happen and that the Government find a way. Just like it is finding ways for other things, putting new administration in, changing up ministries to be more efficient, and all these kinds of things, it is vital for it to find a way to save these businesses because these businesses want to pay their taxes. They want to pay it. But right now, they cannot. And it is a dark cloud sitting over all these r etail businesses trying to survive. They do not want somebody to come chasing after them. But they are in that position. And I know many in this room are aware of it because they are involved in retail businesses. They understand it. So, I do not want to keep going on and on and on here. I think I have made the point as far as where I believe the real challenge is with this particular part of the industry in Bermuda who pays their taxes. And there was one other area we were talking about, and I would probably hope that there was some more conversation about the taxation on imported good s through the couriers. Quite frankly, now, you have seen couriers just blossom. And we have seen every year during Budget time where the increase of goods coming in through couriers . . . that dollar value has increased. And, you know, Bermudians like variety. You are not going to get the variety in a small saturated Island like this here, so this does allow for opportunity. I think that going to 25 per cent, in my estimation, the same as being able to go away flying and then to bring it back, is a bit of a reach. I think we can dress that back. But understanding that the intent of this here, I can see that if it goes to 25 per cent the unintended consequence could be that many of these courier services who our cousins are all working at . . . there may be some cutting back of that. And we do not want to have that happen. And, so I am hoping some more attention will be given to some of these areas as we move forward with this new tax structure system. And so, again, Mr. Deputy Speaker, it is pointed out in the Tax Reform Commission [Report]. It is also pointed out in the Fiscal Responsibility Panel [Assessment Report] that the major threat to Bermuda is the fact that we have the certainty of the shrinking of our population. That has to . . . and that may need another report to address it and what exactly do we do as far as industry is concerned to get more people here. And I think that we can get to that. I certainly believe that there has been some speed up as far as work permits are concerned now, and gett ing them through. That is one area. But not just getting them through, getting new people to this Island so that we can continue to ensure that this reform gets talked about some more, more ideas, and then we start i mplementing it. Thank you, Mr. Deputy S peaker.
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE DEPUTY SPEAKER
HOUSE VISITOR
The Deputy SpeakerDeputy SpeakerThank you, Leader of the O pposition. Before we call the next speaker, I would like to recognise the former Deputy Speaker of this House who served over 25 years in this Parliam ent, the Honourable “Uncle” Walter Lister. [Desk thumping] 384 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House …
Thank you, Leader of the O pposition. Before we call the next speaker, I would like to recognise the former Deputy Speaker of this House who served over 25 years in this Parliam ent, the Honourable “Uncle” Walter Lister. [Desk thumping] 384 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly The Deputy Speaker: Sergeant -at-Arms, he is welcome to come and sit inside the Chambers, if he wants. So, Sergeant -at-Arms, if you want to invite him in, you can. [Tax Reform Commission Report 2018, take note motion, debate continuing]
The Deputy SpeakerDeputy SpeakerAny further speakers? The Chair recognises the Honourable Kim Swan from constituency 2, in St. George’s [West]. Mr. Swan, you have the floor.
Mr. Hubert (Kim) E. SwanGood evening, Mr. Deputy Speaker, and like our lead- off speaker tonight, I will not be long. Save and except to say, in the first i nstance, the Finance Minister was wise to give a brief presentation, Mr. Deputy Speaker, because this par-ticular Tax Reform Commission was commissioned before he …
Good evening, Mr. Deputy Speaker, and like our lead- off speaker tonight, I will not be long. Save and except to say, in the first i nstance, the Finance Minister was wise to give a brief presentation, Mr. Deputy Speaker, because this par-ticular Tax Reform Commission was commissioned before he was a Member of Parliament, and he was returned. And [I am] very pleased that he was r eturned to the House of Parliament upon the retirement of a Member. And he has ascended to great heights from the Robin Hood Corner to become the Finance Minister. I think it is prudent that he, in his role as F inance Minister —yet to present his first Budget . . . I think it would be foolhardy for him to come here today to espouse exactly what it is that he would propose to do, having not yet even really . . . I do not even know if he has given his Maiden Speech yet, apart from do-ing his ministerial responsibilities. [Crosstalk ]
Mr. Hubert (Kim) E. SwanSo, I believe that you certainly cannot be judged for what you do not say. But, yet, having not said it, persons were prepared to judge him. And I do not think that was . . . I would not say it was not fitting. But I do not think …
So, I believe that you certainly cannot be judged for what you do not say. But, yet, having not said it, persons were prepared to judge him. And I do not think that was . . . I would not say it was not fitting. But I do not think that it has the merit that persons would have liked to have attributed to it. I think that persons were being politically mischievous when they did so. But I think he was acting very pr udently — [ Inaudible interjections]
Mr. Hubert (Kim) E. Swan—and I just want to pi ggyback on what the previous speaker said, the Hon-ourable Opposition Leader. And I will declare my interest, like he did. I have been in retail, not currently, but for many years of my professional life. And I think that he made a very good …
—and I just want to pi ggyback on what the previous speaker said, the Hon-ourable Opposition Leader. And I will declare my interest, like he did. I have been in retail, not currently, but for many years of my professional life. And I think that he made a very good point, of which I have already shared, as he was making it with the Finance Minister, about the fact that we in retail have always had to carry the burden, the tax burden. Many of us know exactly what it is like to employ many Bermudian people and then have to shell it all out ahead of time and hope that we would make a return. And so, the margin [for] retail is very thin now, more so than it was even when I entered retail. And so, you know, many of us are looking forward to the opportunities for growth —growth in tourism. The Honourable Member spoke about growth as far as people. But maybe repatriation of our very own people in the thousands who have left Bermuda would help our situation and help us culturally regain. But, you know, I just ever so briefly would like to look at 8.3 on page 69. Some of the guiding attri butes that the Tax Commission took on board, and one stood out to me. It would be number four (it is not numbered, but it is there). “Taxes should not favour one group or sector over another and should not be designed to interfere with or influence individual dec ision-making [amongst] economic choices.” Well, we know in this country that the tax sy stem that we have inherited has been there since time immemorial. And certainly there is a great deal of f avourability which has not been enjoyed by, particula rly, the black community. And we in the black comm unity have not enjoyed the spoils of Bermuda’s ec onomic success as a collective. So, as we look at fair-ness . . . and let us be fair when we talk about fai rness, in that whenever a Government comes into existence, what are the two boogeyman words that are used? There are three of them, because I remember Dale Butler calling them out in threes. One is “independence.” Mention independence and people go nervous and the boogeyman comes out. And yet we have Britain going through voting and making decisions that impact everyone associated with them, and very little is said about that, and beneficial owner. A member of the Opposition even wrote about that this week, and that is a bipart isan issue. Our Finance Minister, former Finance Mi nister and Premier, and the Honourable Member , the National Security Minister, have travelled extensively for Bermuda, have been defending Bermuda in the same way that former persons who held those offices have done so. But yet people would nit -p ick on their travel and all the like while they are doing necessary business. But let somebody else say it. It is great. [ Inaudible interjections]
Mr. Hubert (Kim) E. SwanAnd, so . . . Yes, when the PLP are doing it, we are going to, you know, find fault. And that does not speak to fairness and bipart isanship. And I was pleased with the Junior Minister who spoke of the collaborative way in which he and the former …
And, so . . . Yes, when the PLP are doing it, we are going to, you know, find fault. And that does not speak to fairness and bipart isanship. And I was pleased with the Junior Minister who spoke of the collaborative way in which he and the former Opposition Leader were interacting. I can imagine how some of those conversations were going, because I am sure he could foretell for her some of the things that she might not have been aware were happening under her very eyes and ears at that par-ticular time.
Bermuda House of Assembly But, as we look at fairness, “income tax” has always been the other “I” boogeyman of Bermuda. And we hear persons make reference to, It is the sole responsibility of a government to only take in what it intends to spend. In an ideal world, yes. When times are going good, yes, you can operate with a surplus. But I reme mber . . . and I have to be fair. Between 1998 and 2008 when I was in . . . 2007, when I was a Senator. I remember that Bermuda enjoyed a tremen-dous boom period economically. Unprecedented! It was a PLP Government that presided over that. Growth and incre ases in population do not guarantee equity. And I am sure another Member can speak to that far better than I can. But I can tell you this, when Bermuda’s poor population and near poor grew, it was when the boom period was taking . . . and that is what has to be taken on cue because right now persons that are looking to boost their pockets are persons in position to benefit from it. You know, I was encouraged today, and if I could have read this article written in The Boston Globe about a young Bermudian, a young Bermudian that just received the Rhodes [Scholarship], became a Rhodes Scholar. Her mom is a lawyer, Ms. Stone. And I am looking because I posted it. And it showed some hope because this young lady in being around IB and the like and accepting the opportunity to further herself academically touched my heart in saying that being around the Jesuits and the like and advancing herself academically, she is going to go and examine the poor and how [they are] impacted in a community. May we have more peopl e like that. May we have more people like that. And, Mr. Deputy Speaker, as we look at these terms of reference that have been laid out, fairness has not been the order of the day in Bermuda for centuries. It has not. And as a consequence of now ha ving this Commission in front of a new set of eyes in finance for the Progressive Labour Party, it is only fair to that postholder’s office, for him to measure it twice before he even decides that it is going to get the sci ssors to do what he needs to do (and I use that met aphorically). And, so, as it relates, I promised that I was not going to be long and I am not. But fairness is the operative intent of taxes. But as a retailer . . . I am not a practicing r etailer right now, but one at heart as well as other trades, I have to say that the burden on a retailer in that regard is far greater. It is far greater than other persons in business. And I would hope that those set of eyes that have elected to measure twice and then proceed, as we will get a look at the b udget, would take a worthy comment like that from the Opposition on board. But I am confident in my Finance Minister. I am very confident. I am proud to have canvassed for my Finance Minister.
[Inaudible interjections]
Mr. Hubert (Kim) E. SwanYes, inde ed! I am very proud. I knocked on doors. And I look forward to the critical eye that he will put on this important subject. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker.
The Deputy SpeakerDeputy SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member. Any further Members want to speak? There appear to be none. [Inaudible interjection] [Laughter]
The Deputy SpeakerDeputy SpeakerThe Chair recognises the Ho nourable Member Rolfe Commissiong. [Laughter]
Mr. Rolfe CommissiongThank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker . Mr. Deputy Speaker, Steven High, the author, wrote a book called Base Colonies in the Western Hemisphere, 1940 and 1967. I have used this quote before and, with your indulgence, I would like to r epeat it. He described Bermuda, and I quote now, …
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker . Mr. Deputy Speaker, Steven High, the author, wrote a book called Base Colonies in the Western Hemisphere, 1940 and 1967. I have used this quote before and, with your indulgence, I would like to r epeat it. He described Bermuda, and I quote now, “Ruled by and for a white oligarchy” and said that “Bermuda was one of the most reactionary colonies in the British Empire.” Now, he may have gone overboard a little bit on that one. Certainly, the colonies in other areas and in Africa were fairing far worse. But he went on to say, “T here was no income tax. No inheritance tax. No luxury taxes of any kind. Property taxes were nominal at best. Without a sy stem of direct taxation, the colonial revenues were largely derived from customs receipts. The great beneficiaries of Bermuda’s reliance on customs duties were landowners who paid nominal taxes and merchants who paid none. The great losers, by contrast,” according to High, “were working people who paid the price of higher living costs. As virtually everything had to be imported.” He we nt on, “For a hundred years, a small group has made Bermuda its own paradise by contro lling legislations and by seeing that taxation policy kept all but themselves in strict economic subjugation while they themselves accumulated fortunes subject to no taxes whatsoever.” Mr. Deputy Speaker, we have talked consis tently about the inequities in our tax system. And when I say we have talked, I am talking about for decades on this side of the aisle. The Progressive Labour Party Government and the Progressive Labour Party going back to its inception over five decades ago described the inequalities in our tax system and called for a more fairer, more progressive tax system. So, let us not be any illusion here. We know the philosophical origins of this work, and it does pose a monumental 386 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly and fundamental shift on how Bermuda treats its people. Long overdue, I might add. Mr. Deputy Speaker, this work by the Tax R eform Commission was a bipartisan work. I think it was the right approach to take, and all credit to our P remier (who was then the Finance Minister) for moving in this direction. Certainly, we want to have as many Bermudians on board as we can as we look to move towards implementation in 2019. As a cautionary note, and for all those in radioland, it is not to say that this report will be accepted in toto by our Government. But certainly, you expect that they will act in good faith in judging the recommendations and making that monumental shift toward a more progressive tax system. Mr. Deputy Speaker, last week I talked about the historical currents which are running throughout the world right now with a bill that is coming due on decades, beginning in the 1980s where there was a monumental shift from labour to capital, what more commonly came to be known as a neoliberal period from the 1980s right up until the present probably hi tting a brick wall in the 2008 recession. This shift from labour to capital ensured that income inequality throughout the West, along with the trends that the now-called globalisation ex acerbated, would ensure that there would be shrinking middle classes, growing poverty in most of these nations and mainly in the A nglo-Saxon world of the UK, the US and Bermuda. Although, as Steven High points out, they were late to the table, because Ber muda’s tax system, Bermuda’s assumptions around the way it organised its economy were there decades before Reagan or Thatcher thought to move in that same direction. We were at least pioneers in promoting inequity with r espect to our economy and our tax sy stem. Let us be honest about it. But that period is over now. France is bur ning—Paris and all the suburbs. We see the politics in the US and in the UK as the old certainties fade away as that period ends. We would be unwise not to en-sure that we shift with the world— but in a positive direction, not in a reactionary, racist, xenophobic, and ultimately destructive one, which seems to be the case in countries that we viewed as exemplars for ourselves. So, Mr. Deputy Speaker, let me just bear down a littl e on that thought. There is a columnist in Bloomberg View who writes quite prodigiously as Mr. Barry Ritholtz. I will give a little background on what has taken place in the world over the last four decades. It was featured in the 1Royal Gazette . And let me just get the . . . one of the key factors, Mr. Deputy Speaker, and you would be pretty understanding, I think, of what I am going to read here. He says one of the factors that led us to this period is what I call the decline of unions. “Unions once guar anteed the middle- class good jobs and a
1 Royal Gazette , 29 September 2018 living wage,” I quote. “ The trade- off was increased labour costs for companies and higher -priced manufactured goods for consumers. That was then. Membership in labour unions has been falling since the 1950s. As of 2017, just 10.7 per cent of wage and salary workers in the US belonged to a union; that is half of what it was in 1983. The share of unionised workers in the private sector is even lower, at 6.5 per cent. “A turning point in the fate of unions came when Pr esident Ronald Reagan fired striking me mbers of the Professional Air Traffic Controllers Organ isation. A number of states, especially in the South, passed laws making it harder for unions to organise. As union membership declined, so did the ability of workers to win pay increases from employers. This ties in to the next point .” (As I said, about rewarding capital instead of labour ). “We can point to the Reagan, Clinton, Bush and Trump” (I would add Thatcher.) “ Administrations for various changes to the t ax code that were much friendlier to capital than to labour ,” he writes. “ Capital gains taxes fell, as did the top income- tax brackets. Policies that were extremely shareholder friendly were also put into place. Although income inequality has been rising f or decades, these four administrations ,” talking about the American administrations, “ had an outsize impact. ” And at the same time we saw a decline of unions that protected the rights of workers through collective bargaining and ensured that they could extract equity from these respective economies; we saw the same trend take place in Bermuda. In 1981, 1982 or 1983 (and I stand to be corrected with respect to those dates), the BIU had over 6,000 members. And it was the BIU that helped protect the interest of Berm uda’s workers, particularly the black Bermudian wor kers, but not exclusively —over 6,000, [in] 1983 in a far smaller economy with fewer workers in that economy. Now that has dropped by 40 per cent in a larger economy, I might add, with far more workers whereby the BIU today has just over 3,000 members. And in Bermuda, and in many other countries in Europe— again the UK being the most principle offender, but even in mainland Europe —you had i ncreasing numbers, and in America, of workers coming into the workforce without those protections, without the protection of collective bargaining. That is why increasingly from Europe through to the US you saw more calls for minimum and statutory wages to fill that void that was filled during the 1960s and 1970s by labour unions. That is what has been happening here. It was a massive transfer of wealth that created signi ficant amounts of income inequality, and Bermuda has been —
The Deputy SpeakerDeputy SpeakerHonourable Member , speak to the Chair, please. The Gallery is outside of the House. You can speak to the Chair. Bermuda House of Assembly Mr. Rolfe Commissiong: Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker . So, let us go into the weeds here a little bit, with respect to the report. …
Honourable Member , speak to the Chair, please. The Gallery is outside of the House. You can speak to the Chair.
Bermuda House of Assembly Mr. Rolfe Commissiong: Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker . So, let us go into the weeds here a little bit, with respect to the report. Mr. Deputy Speaker, on page 11, 1.2.7, it says, “There was a consensus amongst stakeholder groups that Bermuda’s tax structure placed a disproportionate burden of tax on those least able to pay.” Some time ago, it may have been a year ago, I came with a report, it was called the Tax Incidence Report, which was undertaken by Mr. Eugene Cox, the Finance Minister of the PLP Government, perhaps, only within a year or two of us taking power. That Tax Incidence Report indicated that with respect to Bermuda’s principal revenue streams, in terms of our Government, of land tax, customs duties, and pa yroll tax, it placed a disproportionate burden on those at the lower income distribution bands. As I said, the observations by the mid- 20 th century indicate Bermuda’s tax system was essentia lly doing the same thing then. And we know the inter-sectionality in Bermuda between poverty, low income and colour. But that tax incidence survey was illustr ative and clearly showed the wage and income, or i ncome disparity was pronounced in terms of the tax system that we had there and how it exacerbated it. I heard earlier about the question of land tax. Those taxes are usually passed on to the renter, whether residential or at the commercial level. And with respect to payroll tax, it has been one of the more regressive taxes we have had, although there have been attempts to tweak it here and there, to try and add more progressivity to it. And lastly, customs du-ties—not as big a percentage of the overall tax rev enue as it was going back 20 or 30 years ago, but still significant. And, again, at every instance the impact upon poor, lower -income and middle- income Berm udians has been pronounced. This is what we were faced with and that is why this has called out for pr ogressive change. Moving on, 1.2.9, page 11, “In comparing tax/GDP ratios with other countries the Commission found that Bermuda was lagging behind its main com-petitor jurisdictions as well as the rest of developed economies.” Related to that, 1.2.10, “In comparable international financial c entres in the Caribbean and els ewhere, tax/GDP ratios have converged to 20% -24% of GDP compared to Bermuda’s ratio of 17% of GDP. In OECD countries, the tax/GDP ratios are in the range of 24% -28% of GDP.” And that brings up the point of the SAGE Commission . The SAGE Commission . . . and if I am being a little unfair in my characterisation, I will stand to be corrected. Its underlying philosophy was that government was too big and thus needed to be cut, and that would have resulted by way of privatisation and other just direct reducti ons, and probably hundreds of Bermudians losing their jobs, professions, within the public sector. At no time did the SAGE Commission talk about the fact that we needed also to increase the size of revenue which was coming in to the government, and that es sentially, in terms of that tax to GDP ratio, Bermuda’s was too small. Know why? Because if we did that then those who were earning more would have to pay more. I mean, look at the makeup of that SAGE Commission. I feel the Chairman is a person I can probably rightly say earns millions of dollars of income every year —and others. But they were prepared to place the burden of necessary changes solely on the civil service and in the public sector, while, as Mr. High said, they essentially paid no tax whatsoe ver themselves. This is what we have to end. So, the Commission has recommended that we increase tax revenue to 20 per cent [of GDP], I believe. Although that would still place us probably 2 [per cent] to 4 per cent below what is the norm in OECD in term s of the developed world. Okay. I might add, even though in terms of the government pay . . . the tax to GDP ratio is around 17 per cent. Once you add in, as it states here, the Bermuda Monetary Authority, the Tourism Authority and other Authorities who have fee collecting powers, it goes up to 18 per cent. But this still leaves us short of what the norm is in most countries. Just moving on. And this is important. “In theory and in practise,” ([This is] 1.2.15.) “tax measures may be applied to income or consumption streams in a modern economy. Tax measures may also be applied to the accumulation of wealth.” No doubt, and that is another area that we are going to have to look at. It says here at point 1.2.19, “In Bermuda’s case, the tax structure is pri marily consumption- based and remains largely tied to 19 th and 20th century management systems that present constraints on a tax reform process in Bermuda.” Imagine that! We are living in Bermuda, one of the most advanced countries in the world (at least we like to think so), certainly one of the more richest by any crude measurement, but yet they say that we are still constrained by having a tax system containing powerful legacies from the 19 th century, at a time when the very rich pay little or no taxes w hatsoever, as mentioned. Now, this is fascinating, 1.2.22 . . . no, I co rrect myself, 1.2.23 . . . just a minute. Okay, no. On both counts I was wrong, Mr. Deputy Speaker , [it is] 1.2.21. It says here . . . this is very interesting, “Going forward with this type of tax policy direction” (as en-capsulated in this report) “would require the elimination of the tax assurance regime (no extension beyond 2035 . . . .)” For our listeners out there, tax assurance regime was a regime that was put in place decades ago to ensure that the companies within Bermuda’s then burgeoning international business sector —this is even before the 1980s —would be exempt from having 388 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly to pay taxes such as, prospectively, income taxes on their corporate earnings, for example. That is sti ll in effect. In fact, the PLP Gover nment under the former Premier extended it before the 2012 election —something that I was not necessarily sanguine about myself, I must say. And so that pr ecludes us ––because of the 2035 extension ––from moving in a direct ion where we can ensure that the larger corporate companies in Bermuda are paying more to ease up the same small to medium -sized businesses that, Mr. Cannonier, the Opposition Lead-er, talked about. That is how we can get more fairness and equity within ou r business community, in terms of the business sector. But it can only happen if we can en-sure that the Dunkley’s Dairy conglomerate empire pays more proportionately than the person operating, metaphorically speaking, the small mom -and-pop store.
[Inaudi ble interjection]
Mr. Rolfe CommissiongAshley’s Lemonade. I love Ashley’s Lemonade. I just do not . . . I like some, but I have to say . . . you know, I have to be politically astute here. I love it; but I would not like it as much if it was down on the …
Ashley’s Lemonade. I love Ashley’s Lemonade. I just do not . . . I like some, but I have to say . . . you know, I have to be politically astute here. I love it; but I would not like it as much if it was down on the Shelly Bay Beach. But anywhere else, Ashley. So, that is an issue. Now, having said that, I have had it confirmed that while that assurance is in relation to corporate tax on earnings, there is nothing comparable with respect to personal income. And I am not suggesting that we need to do that, but it is on the table, and should be, for consideration. Now, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I just want to go down . . . how many minutes do I have left, Mr. Dep uty Speaker ?
Mr. Rolfe CommissiongTen and a half, okay, I still got some time. Mr. Deputy Speaker, I just want to say this, that what I was really positive about . . . were two things. I believe we need to get the proverbial monkey off the back of Bermuda’s low income, its poor, …
Ten and a half, okay, I still got some time. Mr. Deputy Speaker, I just want to say this, that what I was really positive about . . . were two things. I believe we need to get the proverbial monkey off the back of Bermuda’s low income, its poor, its middle class —which is shrinking. And I am happy that for person’s earning up to a $48,000 per annum, that they would not pay any payroll tax under this plan, under this recommendation. Whether it holds up as it goes through the sausage factory of politics is another matter. But, clearly, this is welcome. I would like to see it a little higher, my self, to be honest about it, also, the move to reduce customs duty on staple foods and children’s clothing to 0.0 per cent. That should have happened a long time ago. Just remember, as I said, the burden that is placed on low -income and lower - middle income people by way of customs duties, a land tax and payroll tax is phenomenal. Mr. Deputy Speaker, I am just going to conclude here by saying the following. I came across something in the New York Times Sunday Magazine that I thought was very fitting. And it talks about the need for a new social compact between the various parts of our society. I will say it as that. We know what the old compact is —we are str uggling with it now, the current status quo. And so, as I mentioned last week, we have a historic opportunity to craft a new social compact (this is how I am going to term it), one that will be consistent with our values as members of the Progressive Labour Party and, more importantly, our values as Bermudians. Earlier we heard the Minister, or the Oppos ition Leader, talk about the people who are overseas or . . . no, he talked about the need for us to grow our population by increasing the numbers of work permits in our society. But there is hardly any mention as was mentioned or alluded to by some already that . . . what about the over 3,000 Bermudians who are no longer with us? And many of them are young Bermudians. Many of them black, but white as well, who are overseas in places like the UK. Many of whom left the country because they became essentially economic refugees in this country, outside of those who have gone for education. There are those who have actually picked up sticks and left to live perm anently in the UK. And I would say many of those people were economic ref ugees. Unless we begin to get this right and recognise that this status quo is no longer serving us, and that it has become an existential danger to us if continued to maintain over t he next few years, then unless we have realised that it has to go, and we need to judiciously bring about these types of progressive reforms, I can get very pessimistic about Bermuda’s immediate f uture. But this does give me cause for optimism. The health care reform that is coming down the pike gives me cause for optimism. The course for living wage gives me cause for optimism, and a reduction in the overall cost of living gives me cause for optimism in Bermuda. The fact that now and within the corporate sector and IB you have people sounding like a Ewart Brown and calling for inclusion and inclusivity and diversity, racial diversity within IB and our corporate sector, gives me cause for optimism. The fact that the PLP is now prepared to call for pay equit y gives me cause for optimism. These are the things that will help us create a new social compact for Bermuda and we should make no apologies about it and pursue this social justice agenda. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker .
The Deputy SpeakerDeputy SpeakerThank you. An y further speakers? The Chair will recognise the Honourable Pearman from constituency 23 [sic] . Bermuda House of Assembly Mr. Scott Pearman: [Constituency] 22.
The Deputy SpeakerDeputy Speaker[Constituency] 22. Thank you. Mr. Pearman, you have the floor.
Mr. Scott PearmanThank you, Deputy Speaker. Let me start, Deputy Speaker, by winding this back about five speakers to the Minister for Finance who began the debate. He presented this Tax Commission Reform in a way that was carefully and softly spoken, projected at a high level. He spoke to this report, …
Thank you, Deputy Speaker. Let me start, Deputy Speaker, by winding this back about five speakers to the Minister for Finance who began the debate. He presented this Tax Commission Reform in a way that was carefully and softly spoken, projected at a high level. He spoke to this report, and he was brief. And I will try and emulate that style of presentation now.
Mr. Scott PearmanAnd I want to also look at this based upon fundamental principles and not political point scoring. Let me start by putting the report itself in context. And, if you permit me, Mr. Deputy Speaker, page 11, paragraph 1.2.3, “For the avoidance of doubt, th e Commission has not addressed …
And I want to also look at this based upon fundamental principles and not political point scoring. Let me start by putting the report itself in context. And, if you permit me, Mr. Deputy Speaker, page 11, paragraph 1.2.3, “For the avoidance of doubt, th e Commission has not addressed Government spen ding directly. This was not part of the Commission’s remit.” So, this report is ignoring one of the major elephants, namely government spending. But let us look at this report. What is the problem that needs s olving? Simply put, we need to grow the economy and we need to increase jobs. And, Mr. Deputy Speaker , both sides of the House recognise that. The current PLP Government recognises that in their drive to grow the FinTech industry. They recognise that more jobs are needed. But, respectfully, Mr. Deputy Speaker, the solution being offered by this report does not solve the problem that I have just identified, the problem that Bermuda faces. And the reason I say that, again, based upon fundamental principles, not politics, fu ndamental principles, is that taxing and spending does not grow an economy. Taxing and spending does not grow jobs. Taxing and spending merely circulates existing money, and that is a fundamental economic principle. A few hard facts in r elation to this report: The taxpaying population of Bermuda is shrinking. On that I think we can all agree. We need to be very careful about placing an increased tax burden on this shrinking population. On that, I think we can all agree. The report, if enacted in the way that it is envisaged, and it may not be, and the Minister of Finance rightly recognised that this is a menu and he may not choose cer-tain things from this menu, but this is a projected new tax burden if enacted in full in the region of $150 million. That is a substantial burden to be placed on an increasingly shrinking taxpaying population. And there is also the fundamental principle, which is that raising taxes in a faltering economy is dangerous economics. Mr. Deputy Speaker, we all know about the law of unintended consequences. And the best thing that we can do, because we do not anticipate what may happen by our actions, we do not know what is six or seven steps down the road, so the best we can do is to ask ourselves what might happen if we do this. Now, the present -day facts are these: At the moment, we have the big three. We have the big three taxes. We have payroll, land tax and customs duty. And no one— no one— likes to pay tax. But the pos itive point about the big three that we hav e is that in theory they are relatively easy to collect. They are taken either at the point of entry, or they are taken from the employer, or they are taken from the landowner. And they are relatively easy, in theory, to co llect. Now, the Minister of Finance, when he opened, recognised that in practice there may be large amounts of uncollected taxes. Indeed, I would go further, there are large amounts of uncollected taxes, and I think it would help if working together we all agreed that. But in theory, it is an economic principle that when taxes are less complicated, more taxes are paid. The reverse is also true. When taxes are more complicated, less taxes are paid. And the current three that we have, no matter their faults and their flaws, are at least commendable in that they have the beauty of not being that complicated. And I say that because we are moving from the current big three in this proposal, or we may move (more accurately), to a big seven. What is being pr oposed now —and there are more in here, but the lion’s share of these are four new ones: a rental tax, a G eneral Services Tax, a tax on interest and dividends, and what I am going to call an outsourcing tax because there is a little bit of confusion as to th e nomenclature. Now, here is a fundamental problem. None of those, save perhaps for the rental tax, are easily ascertainable and easily collectible and that is an issue that no doubt the Minister of Finance and his Junior Minister and the Government in ge neral will have to grapple with. Let me quickly address each of the four and share my two cents, for what they are worth. After these taxes are in place there may be just one penny left. The GST: If there is going to be a G eneral Services Tax, and if it is going to be, if not welcomed, then tolerated by business in Bermuda, then perhaps consider whether or not the GST should apply only to foreign purchasers of our services. Do not say to an accounting firm or a doctor’s firm or a lawyer’s firm, and I dec lare my own interest both as a lawyer and a taxpayer, do not say, Let’s place this additional tax burden under a GST on everyone, because that is just going to hurt Bermudians. Maybe, just look at the i nternational providers of the services. It is just a r ecommendation. 390 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly The tax on interest and dividends: I have a lready addressed the House of Assembly on this b efore, and I do not need to repeat myself, but it is i mportant to recognise this key point on taxing dividends because there is a general sense, and it is wrong, that taxing dividends just hits the rich guy. Not at all, Mr. Deputy Speaker . Anyone who operates their business through a company suffers from a dividend tax. Who is it on this Island, not the businesses, but who are the people on this Island who operate businesses through companies? Well, the answer is, those who need the protection of limited liability —electricians, masons, carpenters, people driving around in white vans with a limited company. And how do they pay themselves, because often they do not draw much of a salary? They wait until the year end to see how their business has done during the year, and then they seek to pay themselves from the profits of what they rightly see as their business. And it is at that point that the dividend is what they are waiting for. It is the pre- Christmas money to themselves to support their family, to pat themselves on the back, metaphorically, since they worked hard and scrimped and saved all year. So, just remember that a tax on the dividends hits people who operate through businesses. Also remember that taxes on certain bus inesses in Bermuda, local businesses, when we are not taxing international businesses, put a very large target on the chest of Bermuda in the eyes of the OECD and the EU, because they will come and say that is unfair tax treatment. You are preferring international business when you are not doing the same to local business. So again, the law of unintended consequences; we may think that this is a good idea, but then along comes a bl acklist that we have tried so hard to avoid as a jurisdiction. Another potential uni ntended consequence, if you are going to tax on div idends and interest, then fewer people will be likely to invest in Bermuda and in Bermudians. Turning, and trying to keep this quick, to the outsourcing. I must confess, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I did not entirely understand the explanation that was (I do not mean this disrespectfully) ventured by the Junior Minister. I struggled with the analogy of $100 coming from a US lawyer and $95 going back. I am not sure why a US lawyer would take $95 back and not d emand the $100 they were paid. But, as I understand it, it is a tax on outsourcing. It is a tax on businesses that use other international businesses to help them grow their businesses. Now, Bermuda is 21 square miles. Bermuda businesses, the big ones, the ones that employ lots of Bermudians, are trying to compete on the global stage. They are competing with these other busines ses around the world. To deny them the opportunity to outsource where necessary, or to make it more diff icult or burdensome or expensive, ties the hands of Bermudian businesses behind their backs and it does not assist in their ability to grow their business, to grow the economy and to grow jobs. So, unintended consequences. Bermuda business will become more costly, and, potentially, Bermuda business will become less efficient. The Junior Minister made a comment about the cost of work permits in Cayman —and he was quite right. The cost of work permits in Cayman —
[Inaudible interjections]
Mr. Scott PearmanOkay. The cost of work permits in Cayman is considerably more expensive than the cost of work permits here. But in Cayman there is no payroll and there is no tax on earnings. So, it swings in roundabouts. Turning to the rental tax on commercial and residential property, a number …
Okay. The cost of work permits in Cayman is considerably more expensive than the cost of work permits here. But in Cayman there is no payroll and there is no tax on earnings. So, it swings in roundabouts. Turning to the rental tax on commercial and residential property, a number of those on our side have already pointed out how this is in fact double taxation, because land tax already taxes people on the annual rental value of their property. The last speaker before me pointed out how these costs would be passed on to the renter. And, yes, they often are. But that does not grow Bermuda either, because if a tenant, commercial or residential, finds their rents are going up, it is a good reason for them t o move on. In closing, just a few general points. These proposals at their heart mean more tax on Bermudians when there are less Bermudians to pay them.
[Hon. Dennis P. Lister, Jr., Speaker, in the Chair]
Mr. Scott PearmanMr. Speaker, we need to att ract more people to this Island, not chase them away with higher taxation. And it is not proposed, at least not yet, that any new taxes, any big seven that might be implemented to supplement the current big three, would be used to pay …
Mr. Speaker, we need to att ract more people to this Island, not chase them away with higher taxation. And it is not proposed, at least not yet, that any new taxes, any big seven that might be implemented to supplement the current big three, would be used to pay off Bermudian debt. S o, respec tfully, tax and spend is not a solution. Growing the economy and growing jobs is the solution that we need. We need more people here spending more money. And, Mr. Speaker, it is inte resting that today the Fiscal Responsibility Panel also tabled t heir report in the House, because I would just end with this observation, and it is on page 2 of the report, second paragraph, and so important is it that they have italicised it. “But perhaps of greatest con-cern,” it says, this report, “But perhaps of greatest concern is the certainty of the island’s shrinking wor kforce and rapidly ageing population.” Mr. Speaker, if we are to grow the economy, if we are to create jobs, more jobs for Bermudians, we do need more people here, and taxing the dwindling number s that remain is not the solution. Thank you, Mr. Speaker .
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member . Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak? Bermuda House of Assembly No other . . . We recognise the Honourable Member from constituency 19. Hon. Jeanne J. Atherden: Hello —
The SpeakerThe SpeakerHonourable Member — Hon. Jeanne J. Atherden: —Mr. Speaker —
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYou have the floor. Hon. Jeanne J. Atherden: I think, recognising that I did sit on the Commission I have a few observations to make. And I think I am just going to observe them in the context of the way the motion was laid. The m otion said: “WHEREAS …
You have the floor. Hon. Jeanne J. Atherden: I think, recognising that I did sit on the Commission I have a few observations to make. And I think I am just going to observe them in the context of the way the motion was laid. The m otion said: “WHEREAS the Honourable Member s are mindful of the content s of the Report of the Tax R eform Commission 2018; BE IT RESOLVED that this Honourable House carefully consider both the contents and the implications of the said report.” And I think it is important that we talk about the implications, because sometimes y ou are busy looking at the content and you do not realise that the implications are what is going to be the operative word. Because once it is out there it is up to the Mini ster of Finance to decide which, if any, and how much of any of the recommendations he wants to impl ement. And that is why I am just going to concentrate just for a few minutes on what I believe are implic ations because I recognise that when the Finance Mi nister put together the Commission, there were some parameters that were put, and I think it is important for us here and also for Mr. and Mrs. Bermuda to understand that, you know, there were some guidelines. There were some guidelines that we had to help us address and deal with all the vexing questions that we have to ask. And I am j ust, if you could allow me, Mr. Speaker, just going to observe a few things from the report. The questions that have to be considered, as it says in the report, are the following [1.2.14]: • Are the tax measures fair? Are they simple and easily understood? • Do all tax payers contribute their fair share to the public purse? • Is the tax base broad and resilient enough to withstand global and local economic or other shocks to the system? And I think, if you put that in the context of the Commission which was then directed to go and look at the tax structure, look at the Bermuda economy and to come up with some recommendations, at least you can understand when you start to read the report again how some of these things were developed. We were very fortunate in bei ng able to reach out to Mr. and Mrs. Bermuda, Mr. and Mrs. Business Bermuda, the ABIC, the ABIR, the retail sections, and even encourage other people to come who were not (if you will) in what I call the established business organisations, to be able to come and talk to the issues that were important to them. We also tried to go out and have consultations with the under -35s, the young people who are out there who potentially will be i mpacted by this, because we do not know when the Finance Minister is going to pull the lever (and I call all these things levers), and how much of each lever he is going to pull. The bottom line is every one of these things, although we put a number there, every one of these things is something that could be operated. And just by changing it from 5 per cent to 6 per cent or 7 per cent you can double the number and you can decide that you get rid of one potential tax and you have something else. So, I am not suggesting that the F inance Minister is going to say that a certain one of these things is going to be implemented over som ething else. I think we have to understand that it is a, if you will, a landscape that the Finance Minister can look at and say , What do I want to implement ?, based on some of the other parameters that he is going to face at the time. And I say some of the other param eters because the bottom line is that it is important to understand that we have a choice. We have what I call a consumption- based economy. Our tax system here is based on what you consume whether it be the goods that come in that are subject to duty or whether it be when you are g oing abroad, whether it also be the, sort of, the land tax . . . some of these things are more what I call consumption based rather than income tax. Now, we know th at in some other countries there is a mix of income tax and consumption tax. And in the past, I think we have always been able to say to ourselves that we could stand up and we could say proudly that Bermuda does not have income tax. But I think you would also have to acknowledge, although you do not have income tax, there are ways in which taxes have been collected. And in some respects, it is a form of saying [it is] tax on something that you have earned and therefore on your income. But I think we hav e proudly been able to say to people abroad that do have income tax where they sit down, and they fill out [and list] everything that they own, everything that they earn, and they have dollars . . . so we have tread this fine line. And I think, Mr. Speaker , this report reminds us that the majority of developed economies have a combination of taxes on income and taxes on consumption. And all it is doing is making Bermuda and the Minister aware of different types of consumption tax, or different types of income tax, that he can decide to either increase or reduce. And as I said before, he can decide, based on what he has to achieve in terms of the amount of revenue that he has to try and find in any one year or in any one period which pieces of it [to choose]. 392 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly Now, I think it is important for us to recognise that when we had the conversation in terms of the Tax Commission, and we said it right in our report, we did not get into a discussion [about] government spend-ing, how efficient the government was on spending, and also what [amounts] of money the government needed to achieve because that is something that the Finance Minister of the day is going to have to. When he decides to introduce any of these taxes, he is g oing to have to say to the people of Bermuda, I need to raise this amount of money and this is why we need to raise it. And the people of Bermuda all the time have to be looking at the government and saying, How eff icient are you, government? What are you spending our money on? Do we feel that we are getting value for money? Are we happy then in you telling us that you are going to introduce this tax and you are going to include this one and lower this other? So, it is still in the hands of the Finance Minister, but it is also in the hands of the peop le. From the perspective of revenues, gover nment revenues have always been raised to take care of government programmes. And always the people of Bermuda should be looking at the revenues that have been raised and how efficient and how well they have been spent. And that is why, when you talk about in the report and also in the Fiscal Responsibility Panel, you see people like . . . our Tax Commission said that we have not opined on how efficient government is or how much revenue they need to achieve. But w e understood the relationship between raising revenue and spending. And also the Fiscal Responsibility Panel said very clearly that it is important for the Government to understand that if they do not start to pay attention to the efficiencies, the govern ment efficiencies, then they are going to have some negative knock -on effect with respect to the people of Bermuda. We said, and I know that it has been said even more clearly, that another paramount issue is the question of the deficit of the country an d the deficit and the amount of debt that we have. We had to at least recognise that it was there because if we did not recognise that it was there we would not be recogni sing, one, why the Commission was being given a d irective to raise a certain amount of GDP —a certain amount of revenue to a certain level of GDP. But I am saying that when you are tasked to do that, you have to recognise that the other side of the lever, potentially, is to be more efficient. And then you do not have to have as much revenue. So, I think that we know that we cannot do anything, as it says in the report, that we did not want the risk of a downgrade. And I think that the point that we want to make . . . and for me personally, I think this is something that has been very strong from my perspective. Unless you get more people on the I sland, unless we start to grow the base on which the taxes are, the taxes are . . . the people that are being taxed, then all you are doing is turning around and what you are saying is that the small base that you have there, more people have to pay more—the same number of people have to pay more in order to get the higher amount. And you know that if you do not want to do that, the bottom line says get more people and you can spread it around a nd everybody pays less. And I know that very carefully. And I say this because I know that when we started to look at health that we were going along, we had a bigger base of individuals who were sharing the health expenditure, and it meant that the premi ums could go down b ecause the expenditure was spread around. It is the same principle with respect to taxes. If you can get more people in here . . . and I say more people in here by growing businesses, by having people here who can employ Bermudians. Because the bottom line is you want people to be on the Island. You want Bermudians to be employed and you want them to be paying payroll tax because they have a job as opposed to not being able to pay payroll tax, or paying payroll tax on a shrinking . . . on a shrinking revenue and therefore feeling, how can I make ends meet ?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMm-hmm. Hon. Jeanne J. Atherden: So, we know that it is i mportant. So when I hear each one of us talking and saying to the Finance Minister the fact that we believe that it is important when he looks at all of this, to be reminded of the fact …
Mm-hmm. Hon. Jeanne J. Atherden: So, we know that it is i mportant. So when I hear each one of us talking and saying to the Finance Minister the fact that we believe that it is important when he looks at all of this, to be reminded of the fact that these levers are just opportunities to raise revenue, but more people having . . . your tax base, if it is increased by the people that are working here, then it makes it easier and it also makes it fairer for people in Bermuda, because the other side of this, when we talked about this, was to hold the question of trying to make it fair and trying to make it equitable. And it is difficult when you start trying to go from a system that is in place to potentially look at another syst em. And I think if you start to look at what the Tax Commission is saying, that in some cases there has been an indication . . . if you read some of the information that is in this book, there is a suggestion that you might have one type of tax and . . . let us just say you are talking about the tax on terms of land tax, that is a tax on your property. But the other tax, which is the tax on your rental incomes . . . I heard people sort of saying that is double taxation. Well, anything that you have as a tax, it does not matter. A tax is a tax. And if you start to say reducing one and increasing another . . . the bottom line in the end is that you are supposed to be revenue ge nerating and some taxes, when we start talking about consumption and some taxes when you start talking about income, they potentially can go after the same item. But they are a different direction in which you are trying to look at it. You are trying to look at som ething that says that on the one hand it is a consum pBermuda House of Assembly tion and on the other hand it is income. I think that we have to understand that. The other concern that has been raised, and I say that because I know that from the Commission’s point of view, and I also know from the perspective of the Fiscal Responsibility Panel, it does not make any sense for us to start to make suggestions about co llecting tax or raising revenue if we are not able to make sure that the taxes are collected. And you see in the Commission booklet a lot of information has been put out in terms of the office of the Tax Commissioner. How is it going to be structured? How is it going to be able to make sure that they can collect these taxes? Because I have something that I say, and I say often because it is coming from my auditing days, that you have a single poi nt of failure. And what that means is if there is something that, regardless of what you do, when it gets to that point, it fails. Then we always look around and see people making changes to systems and the point where it fails is still there in the middle. And, therefore, you have gone all around thinking you have done something really great, but the single point of failure is still in the middle, which means that you have made all sorts of changes and nothing, nothing good is going to come out of it because the failure is there. And that is why, I think, that it is important for us to understand that the office of the Tax Commissioner is very important. Now, the suggestions are here being made effective to consolidate —consolidate departments that are coll ecting tax —because the bottom line is in most cases the individual, it is an individual who is there that is being taxed in many, many ways, whether it be the tax that you pay because you are having a car, or whether it is the tax that you pay with respect with b eing able to get a licence to have property, or the tax that you pay to be able to have an Airbnb. All of these things are forms of taxation. And when I look at it from this perspective, I do not differentiate between the types. All I say is that it is the Government of the day figuring out a way to collect money from its citizens to generate the revenues to pay for all of the expenses, all of the services that they have to offer. And so, if you start looking at the fact that if we start focusing on individuals, then you will see that if someone keeps track of an individual and everything that they have to pay, whether it be a social insurance, your payroll tax, they keep track of all of these things they will be able to see how when people get behind, when people start to owe money to Gover nment, and then you will start to see that it is important for us not to put in new taxes, which are either overly complex or they have difficulty with collections. B ecause if you generate all this money and you do not have it, then Government cannot use these monies to turn around and pay their bills or pay their staff. So, when you started to look at the Fiscal R esponsibility Panel, which I think it was fortuitous that the report was tabled just at the time when this report, our report, was being discussed. I think we have to recognise that some of the things here we will be able to compare to what is happening in other jurisdictions, and the Finance Minister will have to make his dec ision on whether he believes i t is appropriate or not. But I think that the bottom line that we all have to keep working towards is the fact that the amount of tax that any Finance Minister will have to raise will be directly related to the expenditure that he is having to cover. And t he more efficient a Finance Minister could be, then it means the better . . . the less tax that he will have to raise and therefore by, by . . . as an automatic by-product of that then it means his citizens will have to pay less tax and be happier people. I think that we all want to make sure that there is fairness here. And when you started to look at some of the exemptions that have been put in place, one based on information which talks about people at the lower end of the scale and making sure that if they are not able, if they are already struggling to make ends meet, then why should we add the burden. Why should we burden them? And therefore, that is why some of the exemptions have been put forward. Also, I think there is a belief that when you start looking at fairness, you know, there are some people who sort of talk about a person’s ability to pay versus a person’s ability to be able to . . . pay more. And I know that we have had discussions from the point of view of health care, where it has been su ggested should everybody pay the same for health care. I will put my former Health Minister hat on. I have had some people come and say, Well, I do not want to have a government subsidy because I can pay for it. I would much prefer to have people who cannot pay it have the money . And I think over time I actually do believe that most people in Bermuda want fairness. I think most people in Bermuda feel that they are not their brother’s keeper, but they understand that if someone is genuinely working and try ing to make ends meet and they are not able to, they should be able to be given some sort of benefit so that their family can be able to live properly on the Island. We want everybody on this Island who is making a contribution to be able to say, Well, the system works for me and at least I can feel that as long I am a contributor, then I am being treated fairly . So, I think, Mr. Speaker, what I want to say is the fact that I will be intrigued to see how the Finance Minister makes some decisions. And as I said going back from when I started from the beginning, the i mplication of this is something that is important. It is i mportant for him and for us to understand that, as I say, all of these things are options. They are options for the Finance Minister to decide whether he is going to actually implement all or none, some of this, part of it, in greater numbers or lesser numbers, but it does come down to the fact that if you look at what the Fi scal Responsibility Panel said . . . and if you allow me, Mr. Sp eaker, just to say two things. 394 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly The panel said, “We would be cautious in assuming that the time frames envisioned by the TRC — essentially 18- 24 months for most of the policy r eforms —are realistic.” And they also made the suggestion that, and as we said before, that the office of the Tax Commissioner would need so many more staff. And the last thing, I think, which I think I have recognised and most of us probably will have to do, “[Most] of the proposals are perhaps best seen as steps t owards an eventual mov e to a more conventional sy stem of in- come and sales taxation.” Now, I do not know, I mean, that is something Bermuda, as I say, we have always said that we would never have income tax. But I remember when my Leader was talking about sales taxation as bei ng a fairer way of having people pay, paying for the tax at the time of sale. You know, as I say, if you look at these, if you look at this last statement, it just raises something very interesting from the perspective of a step towards an eventual move to a more conventional system of income and sales taxation. So, I think, Mr. Speaker, the report is there. The contents are there, and it is the implications of this report [which are] going to be something that the Finance Minister will have to look at. An d I think that Bermuda and all of us will be looking for him to come back and tell us over time which pieces he will start to use and why. But I think the bottom line is that we r eally do need more jobs and we need an efficient Go vernment. Thank you, Mr. Speaker .
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable— [No audio: 06:46:45 – 06:46:49]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerHonourable Member Richards, you have the floor. Mr. Sylvan D. Richards, Jr.: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am going to try and keep my comments at a 40,000 foot level because there is a lot of information in this Tax Reform Commission book, which has been …
Honourable Member Richards, you have the floor.
Mr. Sylvan D. Richards, Jr.: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am going to try and keep my comments at a 40,000 foot level because there is a lot of information in this Tax Reform Commission book, which has been passed out today. And I am sure that the members of the public who are listening and even those who are not listening tonight will be able to go through it and absorb it at their leisure. With your indulgence, Mr. Speaker, I would like to just lay out for the listening public the nine ex-isting taxes to be reformed and the five new taxes that are proposed so that folks can get an idea of exactly what the Tax Reform Commission came up with. And before I do that, I do want to commend the effort that has been put into this exercise. I personally know some of the individuals involved. I have had convers ations wit h them over the last few months about their activities, the consultation process. So, I know that the folks who were involved in this, including my parli a-mentary colleague, had the best interests of Bermuda at heart. And I just want to acknowledge their hard work and dedication because they dedicated a lot of time and effort into this. So, there are nine existing taxes that the Commission has recommended be reformed. Those are: 1. Payroll Tax, which will eliminate the rate for person’s earning $48,000 and under. 2. There will be a tax on owner -manager declared dividends. 3. Custom Duty. The aim will be to reduce the cost of staple food items and chi ldren’s clothing. 4. Excise Tax. The goal will be to increase the tax on wine and beer. 5. Land Tax. There would be a restructuring of the land tax. 6. Financial Services, Banks and Insurers. The goal would be to increase the tax for banks and insurance fees. 7. Foreign Currency Purchase Tax. The goal would be to increase the rate to 1.75 per cent for individuals and companies. 8. International Company Fees. The goal would be to align the fees with a compa-ny’s assessed capital. 9. Immigration Fees. The goal would be to increase fees to generate more revenue. Now, there are five new taxes being pr oposed. 1. Commercial Rental Tax. This tax will be based on the annual rental value of the commercial property. 2. Residential Rental Tax. There would be a charge for that. 3. The General Services Tax would be a flat tax based on value of local services. 4. Withholding Tax for Managed Services. This would be a flat tax based on overseas services provided locally. 5. Withholding Tax for Dividend and Interest. This would be a flat tax on the value of dividends and interest. This last one, I am going to jump ahead a bit, number five, the withholding tax for dividend and i nterest. Interestingly enough, it only applies to local businesses. It does not apply to exempt company business, or what is commonly known as international business. This one is problematic for me. Okay? And . . . I am just trying to find my notes, because I have written all over this booklet. But basically, because international business is exempt, local business is being treated differently from international business. And when you have this difference, it is bas ically saying that Bermuda is a tax haven because you are giving a break to international business, but you are charging local businesses the tax. This is very, very problematic. And I am actually surprised that this
Bermuda House of Assembly has not been highlighted in the Tax Reform Commi ssion. But it is something that has been picked up on. I am going to dive into the book. So, let us start with the premise. What are taxes for? Gover nments tax to fund government operations and pr ogrammes. It is a necessary function of government. Government has bills, they have pa yroll to pay, so people are taxed. And people pay taxes to the extent that government operations and programmes require. Governments are not in business for profit. They are there to make just enough money to fund their ex-penses. My fear is that with the $147 million that is being targeted that this money if there is —
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker, point of order, please. Mr. Sylvan D. Richards, Jr.: Sure, go ahead.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYield for a point of order. Yes, Minister? POINT OF ORDER Curtis L. Dickinson: The $147 million represents the aggregate on the taxes that are being proposed by the Tax Reform Commission. It does not represent the amount of new taxes that the Government may or may not decide to …
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Member? Mr. Sylvan D. Richards, Jr.: Point is taken.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerOkay. Continue on then. Mr. Sylvan D. Richards, Jr.: But the argument that I am making is that governments, regardless of what the surpluses are, have a tendency to spend the surplus. Okay? When we budget . . . departments get financing and, coming down to the end of the …
Okay. Continue on then.
Mr. Sylvan D. Richards, Jr.: But the argument that I am making is that governments, regardless of what the surpluses are, have a tendency to spend the surplus. Okay? When we budget . . . departments get financing and, coming down to the end of the year, if that money has not been spent, they will find a way to spend it. That is just the way governments work. And my concern is that if these taxes are implemented and there is a surplus, will it be used to pay down the def icit? Who knows. I think that government will grow to spend that money. Then you have to think of the effect that taxes have on the overall economy. It is a simple equation, Mr. Speaker . When you r aise taxes, there is a decrease in economic activity. When you lower taxes, there is an increase in economic activity. Put another way, tax hikes dampen GDP growth. Tax cuts stim ulate GDP growth. So, we have an economy right now in Berm uda, and I have spoken on this in the House previously, that our economy appears to be slowing down for a number of different reasons. There is no real stimulus going on in the economy right now. We have had shrinking retail sales for consecutive quarters. So my fear is that implementing tax hikes when your economy is shrinking . . . it is going to accelerate that. Taxes are effective when they are implemented in times of growth —when the economy is strong, when jobs are being created, when there is an ability to pay. Also, it states in the book, on page 11, section 1.2.3, and I will quote, it states: “For the avoidance of doubt, the Commission has not addressed Gover nment spending directly. This was not part of the Commission’s remit. However, due to overlap of cross- cuttin g issues, some of the recommendations submitted by the Commission have touched on Go vernment expenditures.” As far as I am concerned, this is a major flaw with the Tax Reform Commission report. And I have to assume that they were instructed to not consider go vernment spending directly. But when I look at this r eport and I see that government spending is not addressed at all, it gives me concern.
Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker, point of order.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerI will take your point of order. POINT OF ORDER Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Page 66 of the Tax R eform Commission’s report sets out the terms of reference. There is no need to make any assumptions. Just read page 69 —
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: —[page] 66, I am sorry. [Inaudible interjections] Mr. Sylvan D. Richards, Jr.: Mr. Speaker —
The SpeakerThe SpeakerContinue on, continue on, Member. Mr. Sylvan D. Richards, Jr.: The Tax Reform Co mmittee recommendations, as I stated, will negatively impact GDP growth. I will reiterate. B ermuda’s economy has stalled, and I believe is in a downward trajectory. And raising taxes in the midst of a faltering eco …
Continue on, continue on, Member.
Mr. Sylvan D. Richards, Jr.: The Tax Reform Co mmittee recommendations, as I stated, will negatively impact GDP growth. I will reiterate. B ermuda’s economy has stalled, and I believe is in a downward trajectory. And raising taxes in the midst of a faltering eco nomy is bad economic policy. The Tax Reform Committee completely i gnores the effects of taxes on the overall economy. The fragile st ate of our current economy has not been factored into the taxes that the Government will consider implementing. Also, on page 13 of the report, section 1.2.24. It is an interesting paragraph and is very topical. And I will quote, it states, “The reasons for the exodus of 396 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly Bermudians and expatriate workers remain conte ntious. The central points of debate include, inter alia, the perception that there is a lack of suitable emplo yment opportunities for Bermudians with qualifications and relevant skill sets, t he difficulties that highly - skilled expatriate workers often experience when dealing with the Department of Immigration, mainly with respect to the work permit process and related matters, and the belief that such difficulties inhibit the free flow of ‘job creators’ into Bermuda.” Mr. Speaker, we have a situation where our population is shrinking. We have a low birth rate and an ageing population. I believe that until we deal with our shrinking population, having a discussion about implementing more taxatio n on the public is going to be a difficult one. It is kind of like putting the cart be-fore the horse. If Bermuda’s economy was improving, I would feel more comfortable having this discussion. And I wonder, and I ask myself, are there Members on the other side who share the same concerns I have. B ecause, as far as I am concerned, this is not political; this is our economy and the country. And the Go vernment would be wise to carefully, carefully consider which of these recommendations they are going to imple ment. Mr. Speaker, with that being said, I will take my seat.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member. Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak? No other Honourable Member . . . Premier? Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker , it would be remiss of me, as at one time I did serve as the Minister of Finance of …
Thank you, Honourable Member. Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak? No other Honourable Member . . . Premier?
Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker , it would be remiss of me, as at one time I did serve as the Minister of Finance of this country, to not speak on a report which I was respo nsible for piloting legislation through this House to make sure it became a reality. And as is often said in this H ouse, Mr. Speaker, what the Progressive Labour Party promises on election platforms it delivers insofar as legislation and action inside of this House. We promised that we would create a Tax Reform Co mmission and we did create a Tax Reform Commission. The Tax Reform Commission was a bipartisan commission, represented by Members of both sides of the political divide to come up with and examine our sy stem of taxation and to recommend changes to taxes. What I find interesting, Mr. Speaker, is that the contribution which has come from that side of the aisle, as typical, are political and not looking at the actual recommendations, without recognising that there are recommendations to cut some taxes and to also increase others . . . this is about making our tax system more fair and more balanced. And the question we have to ask is whether or not there is support on both sides of the aisle for making our tax system more fair and more balanced. What I hear, Mr. Speaker, is that there is one side, which is protecti ng the status quo, and there is another side which wants to change things to make sure that we lower taxes for workers, lower taxes for the low -income people, and possibly tax those persons who may be a little bit more wealthy whose i ncome has never been s ubject to taxation.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberExactly. Hon. E. David Burt: It is a very simple premise, Mr. Speaker. It is about fairness. It is about equality. And it is about recognising that we have the most regressive tax system on the planet. We are the only country where after you make a certain amount of …
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberThere you go. Hon. E. David Burt: Now, I know that there are Members on that side who may make $900,000 a year, and who may be subject to this. I understand that there are Members on this side who may have sizeable dividends coming into their pockets which heret …
There you go.
Hon. E. David Burt: Now, I know that there are Members on that side who may make $900,000 a year, and who may be subject to this. I understand that there are Members on this side who may have sizeable dividends coming into their pockets which heret ofore have never been taxed, while the workers in their companies pay taxes on every single dime they get out of a company, Mr. Speaker. That is the unfairness we are here to address, Mr. Speaker. Now, again, this Tax Reform Commission r eport has recommendations. It was a bipartisan committee. And if you look, Mr. Speaker, at the number of meetings they held, those commissioners should be thanked. They did a thorough job. They examined all of the taxes which exist. And they made recommendations only for taxes to be introduced, that existing taxes be reformed, and [they made] recommendations to enhance the system of revenue collection inside of the country , Mr. Speaker. The purpose of bringing this motion was hope fully to hear from the House as to what they thought was a good idea, and what they thought was a bad idea. I heard contributions from some people talking about the fact that we never touched spe nding. Well guess what? The SAGE Commission never touched revenue either.
[Desk thumping] Hon. E. David Burt: It was not meant to address spending. We came to this House and we passed a Bill which set up a Tax Reform Commission, and it had a very speci fic mandate. We debated that mandate and now we have this particular report. And it would have been my hope that we would have heard a little bit more about what we like and what we do not like. However, we will go ahead, the Minister of Finance when he is putting together the Budget will consult, I am assuming, through the pre- budget process, and
Bermuda House of Assembly there will be a signalling as to which recommendations will be accepted and which will not. Now, here is what I will say, Mr. Speaker. And this is just me, because I am like everyone else and I will express my opinion on the report, as this is the debate on the report. The premise of the report is sound, to make our system of taxation more fair. Whether or not I think we need to go from 17 per cent revenue collect ion up to 20 per cent revenue collection of GDP, is debatable. I believe that there may be some more revenue that is needed. But I also believe that there are spaces for reduction in taxes that can happen. And so, when we have a report which bas ically says that we are going to eliminate taxes on the first $48,000 of income from labour, I think that is a good idea. And I would have hoped that this would have had support from both sides of the aisle. At the same point in time when we are looking at making sure that those who own more and have additional revenue have the opportunity to pay more, then I think that is also something we should also look at. Now, I know that there are certain things which may be controversial, Mr. Speaker. But let me tell you a story and it rather surprised me. It was about a year ago, I was at KPMG, I believe it was. And there was actually a discussion about taxes. And I think this was before the last Budget when I was the Minister of Finance and there was this entire debate over the pr ofessional services tax, and what the professional services tax would look like. And we have to remember that the new form of taxes on local drawings from owner -managed companies, which the Honourable Member for constituency 22 is always talking about, is something that came out of the discussions with the local law firms . . . sorry, with the local accounting firms. And at that meeting, one of the things which they said, which I thought was interesting, was it is very interesting that in Bermuda, as in other countries, there is not a tax on rental income. And they said that this was something that was common in many other places. Now, Mr. Speaker, I recognise entirely that this is controversial. And I recognise entirely that the last thing I want t o be doing is taxing the people of constituency 18 who have an apartment or two behind their house and are now going to say they don’t want to be taxed. But guess what? This recommendation does not contain that. This recommendation contains a recommendation for a tax that is over $90,000 ARV . So, if you have a collective ARV that is over that amount, that means that you have a property, or a collection of properties, that is over $2 million. Now, most people in this country do not have properties that are over $2 million, Mr. Speaker.
[Inaudible interjection] Hon. E. David Burt: I am just saying, most people do not. But this is a question of what is right and what is fair. Because when we hear the conversations from Honourable Members talking about the things which need to be done, talking about the facts of the inves tments which need to be made, we have to balance the need to freeze spending at current levels, which the Government pledged to do, and which we are on track to do, and also make sure that we can make our taxation system more fair to encourage additional employment in Bermuda. Now, as the Junior Minister of Finance said, one of the things that this Government has always stated is that payroll taxes are an inhibitor to job growth. And, therefore, this is recommending an overall reduction in the yield from payroll taxes. That is something that is positive, Mr. Speaker. That is som ething that will return money to many people’s pockets. And I hope that it is something that can be supported acros s the board. In addition, certain reductions to things such as custom duties and others are things which I think would be supported across the board. At the same time, some types of new taxes or revisions of taxes, which could mean that those persons who can afford to pay more actually are paying more, are also things that we would hope would be accepted by both sides of the aisle. But the reason I got up today, Mr. Speaker, was not to talk to specifics. The reason I got up today was to thank the seven co mmissioners who spent an awful amount of time carrying out their mandate. This report is a quality report. It has a lot of food for thought. It has a lot of items that should be digested by both sides of the House. And I look forward to February, understanding what the Minister of Finance will put forward for the changes which are necessary. Yes, we need to make our tax system more fair; yes, we need to reduce taxes in certain places. And if you reduce taxes in some places you need to make up for that short fall in others. There are some persons who are saying, and seemingly forget, that the One Bermuda Alliance do ubled taxes on energy.
Some Hon. Members Some Hon. MembersAah! Hon. E. David Burt: Some people forget. Energy taxes doubled. So now we talk about high energy costs. So, if we reduce the amount of taxes paid on energy, then you have to make up that revenue somewhere else. And the question is, where? And if you are unable …
Aah!
Hon. E. David Burt: Some people forget. Energy taxes doubled. So now we talk about high energy costs. So, if we reduce the amount of taxes paid on energy, then you have to make up that revenue somewhere else. And the question is, where? And if you are unable to stand up and at least say one of the proposals you support on that side, and just go with a simple political pabulum of saying, Oh, well, you know increase in taxes and this, that and all the rest, economy here, there and there, you are not contributing to the debate, Mr. Speaker. The fact is that our tax system must be reformed, this Parliament 398 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly passed an Act to reform the tax system to set up a commission to examine it. They came back with a detailed report on a number of options that can be considered. And the very expectation I would hav e is that at least something will come . . . maybe the former Leader of the Opposition, who was a member of the commission will actually speak on it, and tell us her thoughts so we can hear —
[Inaudible interjection]
Hon. E. David Burt: Oh, she did. Okay . That means I was missing.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberShe did a great job. Hon. E. David Burt: Oh, she did?
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberShe was conciliatory. [Inaudible interjections ] Hon. E. David Burt: Oh, she was conciliatory. [Inaudible interjection] Hon. E. David Burt: I hope the other Members on her side that I heard were just as conciliatory. [Inaudible interjections] Some Hon. Member s: We were.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerPremier, direct your comments this way. You may get yourself out of trouble. How’s that? [Inaudible interjections]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerDirect them this way. Come this way. Hon. E. David Burt: Mr. Speaker, the Opposition Leader says he does not know what I am talking about. I will remind him. I will remind him of the comments that I heard from numerous Members on that side talking about the fact …
Direct them this way. Come this way. Hon. E. David Burt: Mr. Speaker, the Opposition Leader says he does not know what I am talking about. I will remind him. I will remind him of the comments that I heard from numerous Members on that side talking about the fact that taxes are too high, how the economy is in bad shape, how X, Y, and Z and all the rest, and tal king about spend ing and different things, as opposed to focusing on exactly what was exactly inside of this particular report. And if we want to talk about spen ding, Mr. Speaker, I shall remind the Members opposite that we inherited additional spending that was u nbudgeted from that side, and we beat their budget targets. That is what happened last year.
[Desk thumping] Hon. E. David Burt: So, our record is clear. We understand precisely what it is that we have to do. There is a reason why the Minister of Finance and I can go to Wall Street and get a tighter spread than the former Government got on raising money. And that is be-cause there is a reason why we can have independent assessments that will upgrade our economic outlook for the first time in 12 years, Mr. Speaker . Because they understand, with our commitment to ec onomic diversification, with our commitment to reducing taxes on employment, and on our commitment to making sure that our economy is more fair, that we are on the right track, Mr. Speaker. So, with that , I want to thank the members of the commission. The seven of them took an incredible amount of time. It was not volunteer work, of course, but it was an incredible amount of time and energy which they put into this report, and I am thankful for their cont ribution. I am happy that they took the task on with fervour and made sure they came up with a very meaty set of recommendations of which we can consider in order to make our taxes more fair. We promised a fairer and better Bermuda, Mr. Speaker. And there are a lot of recommendations i nside of this particular report which can lead us to the fairer and better Bermuda. And for that I am grateful. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
[Desk thumping]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Mr. Premier. Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak? No, Honourable Member wishes to speak? That brings this matter to a close. [The House took note of the Report of the Tax Reform Commission 2018.]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerWe now move . . . no, no, it’s a take note. [Inaudible interjections ]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerIt’s a take note. We now move on. I understand that the other three matters on the Order Paper are being carried over. So, we are now down to the third readings. Ministers, would you like to do your third readings? Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker, I have three …
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYes. SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDER 21 Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: I move that Standing O rder 21 be suspended to enable me to move the Bill Bermuda House of Assembly entitled Investment Funds Amendment Ac t 2018 to be now read a third time by its title only.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAny objections? No objections. Continue. [Motion carried: Standing Order 21 suspended.] BILL THIRD READING INVESTMENT FUNDS AMENDMENT ACT 2018 Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: I move that t he Bill be now read a third time by its title only and passed.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAny objections? No objections. Passed. [Motion carried: The Investment Funds Amendment Act 2018 was read a third time and passed.]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerContinue to the next one. SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDER 21 Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker, I move that Standing Order 21 be suspended to enable me to move the Bill entitled Bermuda Monetary Authority Amendment (No. 3) Act 2018 to be now read a third time by its title …
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAny objections? No objections. Continue. [Motion carried: Standing Order 21 suspended.] BILL THIRD READING BERMUDA MONETARY AUTHORITY AMENDMENT (NO. 3) ACT 2018 Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: I move that the Bill be now read a third time by i ts title only and passed.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAny objections? No objections. So passed. [Motion carried: The Bermuda Monetary Authority Amendment (No. 3) Act 2018 was read a third time and passed.]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerContinue with your next one. SUSPENSION OF STAN DING ORDER 21 Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: Mr. Speaker, I move that Standing Order 21 be suspended to enable me to move the Bill entitled Insurance Amendment Act 2018 to be now read a third time by its title only.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAny objections? No objections. Continue. [Motion carried: Standing Order 21 suspended.] BILL THIRD READING INSURANCE AMENDMENT ACT 2018 Hon. Curtis L. Dickinson: I move that the Bill be now read a third time by its title only and passed.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAre there any objections? No objections. Said matter has passed. [Motion carried: The Insurance Amendment Act 2018 was read a third time and passed.]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMinister of Health. Hon. Walter H. Roban: Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the Minister of Health —
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYes. SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDER 21 Hon. Walter H. Roban: I move that Standing Order 21 be suspended to enable me to move that the Bill entitled the Chief Medical Officer (Transfer of Func-tions and Validation) Act 2018 be now read a third time by its title only.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAny objections? No objections. Continue. [Motion carried: Standing Order 21 suspended.] BILL THIRD READING CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER (TRANSFER OF FUNCTIONS AND VALIDATION) ACT 2018 Hon. Walter H. Roban: I move that the Bill be now read a third time by its title only and passed.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAny objections? 400 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly No objections. It is now passed. [Motion carried: The Chief Medical Officer (Transfer of Functions and Validation) Act 2018 was read a third time and passed.] SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDER 21 Hon. Walter H. Roban: I move …
Any objections? 400 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly No objections. It is now passed.
[Motion carried: The Chief Medical Officer (Transfer of Functions and Validation) Act 2018 was read a third time and passed.]
SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDER 21 Hon. Walter H. Roban: I move that Standing Order 21 be suspended to enable me to move that the Bill entitled the Allied Health Professions Act 2018 be now read a third time by its title only.
The Spe aker: Any objections? No objections. Continue, Minister.
[Motion carried: Standing Order 21 suspended.]
BILL
THIRD READING
ALLIED HEALTH PROFESSIONS ACT 2018
Hon. Walter H. Roban: I move that the Bill be now read a third time by its title only and passed.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAny objections? No objections. The Bill is now passed. [Moti on carried: The Allied Health Professions Act 2018 was read a third time and passed.]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMr. Premier. ADJOURNMENT Hon. E. David Burt: Good evening, Mr. Speaker. I move that the House do now adjourn until Friday, December 14th.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerDecember 14 th. Does any Honourable Member wish to speak to that? Deputy, would you . . . Deputy, I thought you were backing out to leave that time. Hon. Derrick V. Burgess , Sr.: Well I —
The SpeakerThe SpeakerI recognise the Deputy Speaker. Deputy Speaker, you have the floor. Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: I would think after I speak everybody would want to go home. [Laughter] DOCKYARD PREFAB HOUSES —REBUTTAL BY MP MONIZ TO MINISTERIAL STATEMENT Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: Mr. Speaker, this morning we had …
I recognise the Deputy Speaker. Deputy Speaker, you have the floor. Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: I would think after I speak everybody would want to go home. [Laughter] DOCKYARD PREFAB HOUSES —REBUTTAL BY MP MONIZ TO MINISTERIAL STATEMENT Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: Mr. Speaker, this morning we had a [Personal] Explanation based on a Statement the Minister of Public Works and Engineering made two weeks ago. In the [Personal Explan ation] it says that the former Government saved the public $11 million by not building the 100 houses that we had contracted to build for $36 million, and, consequently , only 20 houses were built for $25 million. Mr. Speaker, that is $1.25 million per unit for apar tments that are rough ly around 1,200 square feet. Mr. Speaker, what really surprises me is that the Auditor General made no comment (and I have made this statement already) on this. And, you know, they come under the authority of Government House. And based on these are facts that the y spent $25 mi llion on 20 units. But Government House can order an investigation into a former Premier of this country based on an allegation, an investigation that has been [going on for] over eight years, and has cost the taxpayers millions of dollars, b ut [no investigation on the] 20 units —that were originally priced to cost $360,000—that ended up costing $1.25 million per unit.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberUnbelievable. Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: In the Statement that the former Minister of the OBA made at the time for the OBA Government, it said nothing about the cost, what it actually cost to build those 20 units, Mr. Speaker. And that is what I find quite amazing, that …
Unbelievable. Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: In the Statement that the former Minister of the OBA made at the time for the OBA Government, it said nothing about the cost, what it actually cost to build those 20 units, Mr. Speaker. And that is what I find quite amazing, that the former Minister at that time from the OBA Government want ed us to accept that it is ok ay to build 20 units for $25 million and then make a statement that he saved the taxpayers $11 million. It makes no sense. If we were going to build 100 for $36 million and we end up building 20 for $25 million, . . . that is not a savings. Anybody that can count from one to ten will understand that, Mr. Speaker. So, Mr. Speaker, the [Personal Explanation] this morning even called for the Honourable Mi nister Burch to apologise —apologise for giving facts to the people of this country. How can you apologis e when you are giving the facts, that you built 20 for this amount of money? There is no apology necessary here, Mr. Speaker. The apology really should have come from the [Personal Explanation] that was delivered this mor ning, be cause we have not been tol d . . . he has not said . . . nothing has been addressed in this [explanation] why the Government of the day spent $25 mi llion to build 20 units, Mr. Speaker. But I guess that is what we see in Ber muda. The Two Bermudas. The Two Bermudas which is endorsed by Government House, that one segment of the country
B ermuda House of Assembly can do what they like, and this is fine. And when it is the PLP we would do special audits and investigations and everything we can. It makes no sense. That is consistent with Government House, Mr. Speaker. If you look at the history — Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Point of order, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerWhat is your point of order? POINT OF ORDER [Standing Order 19(11)(g) and (h)] Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Mr. Speaker, as it was last week and again this week, I believe the Honourable Member is contravening Standing Order 19[(11)](g) and (h), in regard to referring to another place. Hon. Derrick …
What is your point of order? POINT OF ORDER [Standing Order 19(11)(g) and (h)] Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Mr. Speaker, as it was last week and again this week, I believe the Honourable Member is contravening Standing Order 19[(11)](g) and (h), in regard to referring to another place. Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: Mr. Speaker, I am not contravening the . . . if you read it you will see that —
The SpeakerThe SpeakerOne second, one second. Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: I’m sorry.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerWe have to be guided, and not refer to the individual as in case . . . walking a clos e line by referring to the house, but not the individual. So I am guided. I am watching it real closely. Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: I know that rule …
We have to be guided, and not refer to the individual as in case . . . walking a clos e line by referring to the house, but not the individual. So I am guided. I am watching it real closely. Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: I know that rule very well, Mr. Dunkley. And I have not called any names. If you want me to say the occupant of the largest house on Langton Hill I can say that too.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerDon’t refer to the in dividual. Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: Right. I will not refer to the individual, because the individual there now is not the only culprit. So, Mr. Speaker, I would . . . I am still wonde ring why no statement has been made by the …
Don’t refer to the in dividual. Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: Right. I will not refer to the individual, because the individual there now is not the only culprit. So, Mr. Speaker, I would . . . I am still wonde ring why no statement has been made by the Auditor General on this here. It’s acceptable for this type of money to be spent, and they say nothing? I mean, these are facts; these are not allegations. This is $25 million to build 20 houses, precast. Really, I thought $360[,000] per unit was very high for precast concrete. You just put them together, it’s pretty quick. Concr ete roofs. That’s a lot of heat; a lot of heat, Mr. Speaker. But anyhow, that is what was agreed to, so I cannot criticise that. I will not. But it is my personal opinion that it was too expensive from the start. Obviously, $1.25 million is expensive, but certainly acceptable by the Auditor General and the boss of the Auditor General. It is acceptable by them. So, Mr. Speaker, I find that to be something that we should not accept. And I hope that we will get to the bottom of this and find out how did they spend this $25 million. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member. Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak? No other Honourable Member? I will take the Honourable Member from co nstituency 11.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerGood evening. OBA —TAX AND SPEND GOVERNMENT
Mr. Christopher FamousGood evening colleagues, and good evening Bermuda. Mr. Speaker, it is kind of fertuitous [sic] . . . is that a word, “fertuitous”? [ Inaudible interjections]
Some Hon. Members Some Hon. Members“Fortuitous” . . . for-tuit-ous. [ Laughter]
Mr. Christopher FamousMr. Speaker, have you ever heard of robbing Peter to pa y Paul? Well, let’s talk about people who have robbed Peter and they have robbed Paul.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberDouble robbery.
Mr. Christopher FamousExactly. Double robbery. Triple, even. 402 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly In July 2013, the OBA began a programme called . . . in conjunction wit h the BTUC [Bermuda Trade Union Congress], began a programme called “furlough days” where they cut 4.6 per cent …
Exactly. Double robbery. Triple, even. 402 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly In July 2013, the OBA began a programme called . . . in conjunction wit h the BTUC [Bermuda Trade Union Congress], began a programme called “furlough days” where they cut 4.6 per cent of all public sector workers’ pay. That equated to $1.75 million per month. That equated to $21 million per year. That lasted from July 2013 unt il May 2015. So, in totality it was 20 months at $1.75 million. That will be $35 mi llion, approximately, that they took from the public sec-tor workers. They got kind of addicted to that money, because they were like, Oh, all this extra money coming in. Was it not? A penny saved is a penny earned, right? They got so addicted, Mr. Speaker, that in January 2015 the then Finance Minister said, Hey, you’re going to keep giving us money. And the workers said, No, we ain’t. And he said, Yes, you are. Do you k now what the workers did? Five thousand government public sector workers marched on the OBA for three days.
[Inaudible interjection]
Mr. Christopher FamousOh, you remember now? You forgot which protest? Let me help you out. January 2015. [Inaudible interjection s]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerSpeak to the Chair. [Inaudible interjections ]
Mr. Christopher FamousThere were 5,000 go vernment workers surrounding Cabinet office for three days, until the OBA had to back off, they had to back down from saying, We’re going to take your money. So— Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Point of order, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMay I have the point of order? POINT OF ORDER [Misleading] Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Mr. Speaker, the Honourable Member is misleading the House. The facts of the matter are that agreement was between the Go vernment and t he unions. Once it expired it could not be moved forward …
Mr. Christopher FamousOkay. Okay. So, they had to say, Where are we going to get this money from? Hmm, who can we tax now? And do you know what they did? In the Budget of 2015 they decided to tax BELCO. Yes, BELCO, where I work. So I know. So, they increased …
Okay. Okay. So, they had to say, Where are we going to get this money from? Hmm, who can we tax now? And do you know what they did? In the Budget of 2015 they decided to tax BELCO. Yes, BELCO, where I work. So I know. So, they increased the taxes on every drop of fuel that came into this Island that powered up this Island. Every drop. In 2015, BELCO paid $15 million in government taxes. Correct? Then, they increased it to . . . in 2016, BELCO paid $23 million in taxes. That was not enough for them. In the t ime when sales were going down, b ecause of less consumption, they taxed BELCO more. So in 2017, BELCO was forced to pay $31 million in taxes. Doubled! And you know what happened, Mr. Speaker? Every house in this Island had to pay more. Every house, every store in this Island had to pay more. Every wholesaler had to pay more. Every grocer had to pay more. So you know what that meant? Every
Bermuda House of Assembly citizen in this country had to pay more because the OBA doubled the tax on BELCO. It did not stop there, Mr. Speaker. It did not stop there. You see, Mr. Speaker, I work at BELCO. I have been there for 25 years. And when their taxes started doubling, BELCO started saying, How can we cut our costs? So, you know what they did? [Inaudible interjections ]
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberHmmm. [Inaudible interjections]
Mr. Christopher FamousMr. Speaker, the same people who claimed that they were going to create jobs cost people jobs at BELCO! People who had been there for 20 years lost their jobs! People who had their careers lined up at BELCO. There is no ot her BELCO around here for people to …
Mr. Speaker, the same people who claimed that they were going to create jobs cost people jobs at BELCO! People who had been there for 20 years lost their jobs! People who had their careers lined up at BELCO. There is no ot her BELCO around here for people to say, Well, I am a power engineer , so let me go work there. No! But they are going to say, We save jobs . Mr. Speaker, let me go a little further. In the 2018 OBA Throne Speech Reply, they wrote, and I quote, “It was the OBA that tackled rising energy costs.” How could you write something like that when you doubled energy costs? How could you? Totally false. Totally untrue. In parliamentary language, totally misleading . And, in unparliamentary language , lies, lies, lies!
The SpeakerThe SpeakerLet’s keep it parliamentary.
Mr. Christopher FamousDo you know how this has been proven to be true? Last week, Friday, there was an intervie w right outside of this Chamber by ZBM’s Gary Moreno. He asked the then Premier, the Honourable Michael Dunkley from constituency 10, So why did you increase these costs? And I quote …
Do you know how this has been proven to be true? Last week, Friday, there was an intervie w right outside of this Chamber by ZBM’s Gary Moreno. He asked the then Premier, the Honourable Michael Dunkley from constituency 10, So why did you increase these costs? And I quote Mr. Speaker , It [the taxes] w as put up on BELCO. It will have an effect on every con-sumer. Cold and callously, like people do not matter. People’s jobs being lost did not matter. How could you write in one thing saying you tackled energy costs, and two weeks later say on television, Well, we put up the taxes . They contradict each other. It goes back to what I said a few weeks ago. Remember that word? The word is called . . . do you remember, Honourable Member?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerSpeak to the Chair. Speak to the Chair.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerLet the conversation flow this way.
Mr. Christopher FamousNo, the word I was looking for is “ credibil ity,” Mr. Speaker. No credibility. You cannot write that you lowered energy costs, and in truth, you raised the taxes on energy costs. No cred ibility. So, you know what, Mr. Speaker? We have a pattern here. Robbing Peter, robbing …
No, the word I was looking for is “ credibil ity,” Mr. Speaker. No credibility. You cannot write that you lowered energy costs, and in truth, you raised the taxes on energy costs. No cred ibility. So, you know what, Mr. Speaker? We have a pattern here. Robbing Peter, robbing Paul, tax and spend Government. Let me reiterate, Mr. Speaker. The OBA got in conjunction with the unions, $35 million dollars from furlough days, $35—I want you all to write this down — $35 million from furlough days. They got an increase of $22 million from BELCO —$22 million! In totality, that is roughly about $57 million. So, we ask ourselves, we hear all day about, Well, you should not tax the people, that slows the economy . Oh, it does this. Oh, it does that. But you all did it yourselves.
Mr. Christopher FamousSo, all of this hyperbole during the day, Mr. Speaker, all of that has low credi-bility. [Inaudible interjections]
Mr. Christopher FamousAll of that amounts to not hing. Because when you tax people, when you cause groceries to go up, when you cause seniors not to be able to buy Paw Paws — 404 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly [Laughter]
Mr. Christopher Famous—that is because of your taxes. All that tax you collected, not one dollar went to the seniors . [Except at] the end of your term when you were desperate for votes. Correct me if I am wrong. Zero, zero, zero, zero, given to seniors. Took it all! And where …
Some Hon. Members Some Hon. MembersWhere did the money go?
Mr. Christopher Fam ousWhere did the money go? Follow the money, Mr. Speaker! Fifty -seven million dollars in taxes from the workers, the Government public service workers, and $22 million from BELCO. Where did that money go? It did not go to seniors. It did not go to the sc hools —
Mr. Christopher Famous—that you are all now suddenly concerned about. None of that went to the schools. Where did that money go? [Inaudible interjections]
Mr. Christopher FamousWhere did the money go? The money went up Dockyard, but not to the houses. I want somebody to point of order me and say, That is not where the money went .
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberThat is not where the money went.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerTalk to the Chair. [Inaudible interjections]
Mr. Christopher FamousMr. Speaker, I am going to close with this Exhibit A. This is where we were before the OBA decided to rob BE LCO. This is where we are afterward. Double the taxes on BELCO.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberAnd I assume you have dropped.
Mr. Christopher FamousI put it in red just for you, Honourable Member. So, Mr. Speaker, the $57 million that they taxed went one place— Americ a’s Cup. I am finished, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak? I recognise the Honourable Leader of the O pposition. Honourable Member, you have the floor. OBA SUPPORT FOR TAX REFORM Hon. L. Craig Cannonie r: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Now, I am going to start off by saying this here: …
Thank you. Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak? I recognise the Honourable Leader of the O pposition. Honourable Member, you have the floor.
OBA SUPPORT FOR TAX REFORM
Hon. L. Craig Cannonie r: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Now, I am going to start off by saying this here: You know, I have been trying to be a good boy, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerContinue trying. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: I have been trying real hard, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerConti nue trying. Do not let anyone break you off that. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Christmas is coming, I have been trying to be a good boy, you know. And we keep hearing, you know, Well don’t throw stones if you live in a glass house. And, you know, I …
Conti nue trying. Do not let anyone break you off that. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Christmas is coming, I have been trying to be a good boy, you know. And we keep hearing, you know, Well don’t throw stones if you live in a glass house. And, you know, I want to just be a little political here, as we start out in some of our debates . And then I hear the Member who just sat down in his seat talking about taxes and his concern with BELCO. Well, I can recall many conversations, Mr. Speaker, with Ascendant Group. And the biggest i ssue with Ascendant Group was that it was taking its profits from BELCO and putting them into other bus inesses. And the conversation was, You need to be putting it back into BELCO. That is where you need to be putting the profits. So, if he has an issue with BELCO , he needs to go to the Ascendant Group, go to that board and ask them exactly what they were doing. Because those profits were going into other businesses that BELCO was making.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberYour lights are going to go off. [Laughter] Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: That BELCO was making. Yes, I have got a generator. [Laughter] Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: I have got a generator. [Laughter and desk thumping]
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberWhoa! Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Because if the Honourable Member is looking at my house, and knowing where it is, I know that switch will get switched real quick! Bermuda House of Assembly [Laughter] Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: But what he needs to do is turn out the lights on …
Some Hon. Members Some Hon. MembersUh-oh. Uh- oh.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberYes. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: —because of the profits that they have been making, and squandering them somewhere else, rather than putting it back into that man right there! [Desk thumping] Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: So, when he gets up, [he should] do his homework! And the fact that taxes …
Yes.
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: —because of the profits that they have been making, and squandering them somewhere else, rather than putting it back into that man right there!
[Desk thumping]
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: So, when he gets up, [he should] do his homework! And the fact that taxes had to go up when we became Government . . . let me remind Bermuda what we inherited in 2012! DEBT! DEBT! DEBT! And we could not even pay civil servants. So, when this Honourable Member gets up he needs to think about what he is saying, just like we have heard about educ ation—act before you start talking!
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberOuch! Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Act! Do something about it! No one wants to hear about yesterday. People are concerned about here and right now . That i s why I supported this reform thing, because if we can get somewhere, let’s do it! But how many times do I …
Ouch!
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Act! Do something about it! No one wants to hear about yesterday. People are concerned about here and right now . That i s why I supported this reform thing, because if we can get somewhere, let’s do it! But how many times do I have to remind this Honourable House of the debt that we inherited? I am glad to see the Honourable Premier coming in here to hear this here. The debt that we inheri ted—
[Inaudible interjections]
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberHalf of what we inherited. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: —and in four . . . Listen, they inherited . . . they inherited a Government, Mr. Speaker, of $160 million in debt and put it over $1.5 billion over! Okay? And so, when we became Government, it would have been …
Half of what we inherited.
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: —and in four . . . Listen, they inherited . . . they inherited a Government, Mr. Speaker, of $160 million in debt and put it over $1.5 billion over! Okay? And so, when we became Government, it would have been easy to try and handle that, but it takes billions to take care of billions. Oh, yes!
[Inaudible interjections]
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Oh, yes! This is no excuse. But when you cannot pay civil servants, something has got to happen! That is what they have inherited. An economy that was turning around.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberHmmm. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: That is what they have inherited. So, I glory in the spirit at the opportunities that they do have. DOCKYARD PREFAB HOUSES —REBUTTAL BY MP MONIZ TO MINISTERIAL STATEMENT Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: So, let us switch off from that and let us talk about …
Hmmm. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: That is what they have inherited. So, I glory in the spirit at the opportunities that they do have.
DOCKYARD PREFAB HOUSES —REBUTTAL BY MP MONIZ TO MINISTERIAL STATEMENT
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: So, let us switch off from that and let us talk about why the Honourable Member . . . he is not here in his seat right now —
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberHe never is. [Laughter] Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: —Moniz. That is all right. But I am glad that you are in your seat right now.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberOh, don’t you worry. I am going to— Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: I am glad you are in your seat.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMembers! Members! Only one person talking! Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: So, you know, we —
The SpeakerThe SpeakerJust one Member talking! Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: —want to go on about these hundred units —
The SpeakerThe SpeakerSpeak to me. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: —and the Honourable Member —
The SpeakerThe SpeakerSpeak to me. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: —was asking for an apol ogy, because it was said that not even a whimper was said or a statement made about those units —which is untrue. That is why the apology was being asked for. And so, we heard the Honourable Minister …
Speak to me.
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: —was asking for an apol ogy, because it was said that not even a whimper was said or a statement made about those units —which is untrue. That is why the apology was being asked for. And so, we heard the Honourable Minister get up and say that he wants to know what was going on. Well, I am encouraging this Minister . . . after he made his statement, by now he should know what was going on up there. I, too, want to know what was going on. Why in the world . . . and who negotiated that price? I have got a feeling who it was; but I want him to find out who negotiated that price. Because it was negot iated. They flew away, they negotiated . . . and I want to know, Mr. Speaker. The contractor who had that project subcontracted a Bermudian to build those units. He also was given, without even a contract b e406 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly ing signed, a multimillion- dollar project to fill that landfill up there. Nothing was signed! But guess what ha ppened Mr. Speaker?
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberHmmm. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Because the then Go vernment went ahead and allowed this man to start working on Cross Island without a contract —no contract—he sued the OBA Government. Because when PLP was Government they went ahead and started paying him t o get work done without a …
Hmmm.
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Because the then Go vernment went ahead and allowed this man to start working on Cross Island without a contract —no contract—he sued the OBA Government. Because when PLP was Government they went ahead and started paying him t o get work done without a contract. So, I am saying, investigate it. I want you to go and look at why and what was spent. Because I know that the same contractor, Mr. Speaker —
Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: Point of order, Mr. Speaker. Point of order, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerI will take your point of order. POINT OF ORDER [Misleading] Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: I think the Honourable Member is misleading the House. Cross Island or whatever you call it, land reclamation, did not start under the PLP Government. [Inaudible interjections]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerSpeak to the Chair. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Mr. Speaker —
The SpeakerThe SpeakerContinue. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: —what I said was they contracted the gentleman who was doing the apar tments, those hundred u nits. They also took him on to do Cross Island development. They took him on.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberWho is “they”? Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: So, I do not know what he is talking about. All he has to do is go . . . I am not naming the name of the company. . . Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: Point of order, Mr. Speaker. [Inaudible interjections …
Who is “they”?
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: So, I do not know what he is talking about. All he has to do is go . . . I am not naming the name of the company. . .
Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: Point of order, Mr. Speaker. [Inaudible interjections and laughter]
POINT OF ORDER
Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: Two things: You ca nnot refer to Members like that, He doesn’t know what he is talking about. You cannot refer t o Members like that up here. And number two, the project did not start under the Progressive Labour Party Government.
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Cross Island?
Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: No, it didn’t.
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: We are not talking about who it started under; we are talking about who gave the contracts, and under which Government the co ntracts were given.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberExactly. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Under which Government the contracts were given. So, all I am saying is . . . you ar e saying, What are we talking about? Why don’t you find out? Your Minister is supposed to find out. Find out. I am saying have a full …
Exactly.
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Under which Government the contracts were given. So, all I am saying is . . . you ar e saying, What are we talking about? Why don’t you find out? Your Minister is supposed to find out. Find out. I am saying have a full investigation on what took place up there, and I guarantee you this, Mr. Speaker, eyes will open.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberWhy didn’t you order it? [Inaudible interjections and laughter] Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Eyes will open. Okay?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMembers. Members. Members! I need to hear one voice! Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Eyes will open!
The SpeakerThe SpeakerOne voice! Hon. L. Craig C annonier: Eyes will open, Mr. Speaker. [Inaudible interjections] Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Because, I . . . you know, we understand it did not cost that much to build them. That is what we are hearing. That is why I am saying it is …
One voice! Hon. L. Craig C annonier: Eyes will open, Mr. Speaker.
[Inaudible interjections]
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Because, I . . . you know, we understand it did not cost that much to build them. That is what we are hearing. That is why I am saying it is important to have an investigation, because we are hearing that they did not cost that much, so I would like to know where that money went as well.
[Inaudible interjections and laughter]
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: I would like to know where that money went as well l, Mr. Speaker . So, you know, we can get exercise, or we are going back and forth, you know. And the Honourable Member is calling for . . . he wants to understand and know what was going on. Yes . . . well, we all want to know what is going on. I can go back to many projects, Mr. Speaker, that we all want to know what was going on about. Certainly, Mr. Speaker!
Bermuda House of Assembly And we are talking about dollar values —we have a Grand Atlantic that is still empty today. How much interest are we paying on that ? Still today completely empty! I understand it was hundreds of people who applied! [Inaudible interjections]
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Hundreds of people who applied! And wonderful, thanks to us! Hey, you know what? This is amazing. You build a unit, and you cannot sell it, and you blame someone else because you cannot sell it.
[Laughter]
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: You blame someone else because you cannot sell it.
[Inaudible interjections and laughter]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAll right, Members! Members! Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: You took on the respons ibility to have a concert and because—
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMembers! Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: —no one showed up, you blame everyone else! What is wrong with your campaign? What is wrong with your campaign team?
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberWow! Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Come on, now!
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberYou are blaming it on PR. [Inaudible interjections] Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: And units that cost over $400- and-some dollars a square foot, if I take a look at the numbers. Back then, 12 years ago or whenever it was done, construction costs per square foot were way below that. …
You are blaming it on PR.
[Inaudible interjections]
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: And units that cost over $400- and-some dollars a square foot, if I take a look at the numbers. Back then, 12 years ago or whenever it was done, construction costs per square foot were way below that. Concessions were given, and this was low -cost housing. And to this day we do not have anyone in those units. I would venture to think that when they went for financing it did not pan out. I t just did not pan out. So, sure, we should take a look at these things. But I do know that the interests of this country have always been to heart, when we were Opposition and when we were Government.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberAnd when you were on a private jet pl ane. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: And so, absolutely — Mr. W. Lawrence Scott: Point of order, Mr. Speaker. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Interesting that he brings up . . . interesting that he brings up a private jet. —
Mr. W. Lawrence ScottPoint of order, Mr. S peaker. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: We are going to get to that.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerPoint of order. POINT OF ORDER [Misleading]
Mr. W. Lawrence ScottYes. The Honourable Member is misleading the House when he is talking about Grand Atlantic, because under the PLP they had numerous Members and numerous families that were lined up ready to buy those units, because the PLP had organised 100 per cent financing. I do know this because it …
Yes. The Honourable Member is misleading the House when he is talking about Grand Atlantic, because under the PLP they had numerous Members and numerous families that were lined up ready to buy those units, because the PLP had organised 100 per cent financing. I do know this because it is in my constituency.
Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: So, what happened?
Mr. W. La wrence ScottAnd what happened ? The Honourable Member Michael Dunkley asked what happened. The OBA, the Member from WEDCO was saying that it was going to fall into the ocean. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Oh, yes.
Mr. W. Lawrence ScottAnd then what happened is that after that the OBA took over in 2012 and cut the funding, and made it unattractive for anyone to live in there until — [Inaudible interjections]
Mr. W. Lawrence Scott—until, until America’s Cup came. And then they used it for America’s Cup. [Inaudible interjections]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMember! All right. Thank you. Come on. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. You know what? I heard a saying the other day from a PLP member who said, Stay woke. Bermuda —stay woke. Okay? Okay? We heard t hat here, in this House being said. I want …
Member! All right. Thank you. Come on.
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. You know what? I heard a saying the other day from a PLP member who said, Stay woke. Bermuda —stay woke. Okay? Okay? We heard t hat here, in this House being said. I want to make sure that Bermuda is awake on every issue that is going down. I am not afraid to stand behind where we are.
[Inaudible interjections] Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Yes, I heard the Honour able Member, and thi s is the one, this is the Honour able Member interpolating that built the units that we 408 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly cannot still to this day fix ! So, I hope on the second time around that he fixes it. I hope he fixes it. That is what he is there for. Fix the problem that you created in the first place , you know, and then we are going to . . . and . . . and . . . yes, we are talking about building more. When people are trying to rent the places right now. Mr. and Mrs. Bermuda are trying to fill the place up and rent it out. And we are going to still build more units.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberYou will see them fall into the sea, too. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Yes, and this is — [Laughter] Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: This is . . . this is their stimulus. Amazing that you can be the architect of some thing and you cannot sit down with Bermudians who …
You will see them fall into the sea, too. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Yes, and this is —
[Laughter]
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: This is . . . this is their stimulus. Amazing that you can be the architect of some thing and you cannot sit down with Bermudians who will listen. Reasonable Bermudians, I am sure, applied for those places, and you could not convince them that those places were okay. Could not convince them that those places were okay.
[Laughter and inaudible interjections]
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Absolutely, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMembers! Members! Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: We can go on and on and on and on, and talk about the many projects that cost the taxpayer, so that by 2012 we were in a hole where we could not even pay people. And that was not done by this Government. …
Members! Members!
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: We can go on and on and on and on, and talk about the many projects that cost the taxpayer, so that by 2012 we were in a hole where we could not even pay people. And that was not done by this Government. But —
[Inaudible interjections]
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: And America’s Cup . . . I love the fact, Mr. Speaker, that America’s Cup keeps coming up. America’s Cup, America’s Cup, America’s Cup. Well, the last time that I went to America’s Cup it was a whole lot of Mr. and Mrs. Bermuda wor king up there getting publicity for the work that they were doing. And to this day , Mr. and Mrs. Bermuda are benefitting from it. All you have to do is read the newspaper and see young people who are benefitting from that.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberAmen! Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: [It was] $300 -plus million back into the economy. Black Bermudians who are benefiting! [Inaudible interjections] Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Black Bermudians! If you cannot read a newspaper, then something is wrong with you as an MP!
The SpeakerThe SpeakerTurn this way. Turn this way. Talk this way. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Because they are in the paper! All right? So, Mr. Speaker, we need to get beyond this stuff. But if the Honourable Minister is going to get up and start scrutinising without doing his homework . . …
Turn this way. Turn this way. Talk this way.
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Because they are in the paper! All right? So, Mr. Speaker, we need to get beyond this stuff. But if the Honourable Minister is going to get up and start scrutinising without doing his homework . . . go do your homework! Act before you start, you know, running your mouth! Act! Act! Act! [Inaudible interjections and laughter]
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: And you know, the Honourable Minister when he went to talk about plane rides . . . well, I can tell you, Mr. Speaker, the number of plane rides. Just yesterday I had a meeting with one of the exempt companies, and they said categorically out front the number of times that their Premier and former Premier asked for their plane to go take a ride! Several times! In fact, Mr. Speaker, I will bring it to you and present it to you. I have a picture sent to me of a plane ride, and t he Honourable Minister who I have been talking about, knows about this plane ride, where they went away on this plane. [Inaudible interjections] Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Okay? Not him; but he was there to pick up the goods. He was there to pick up the goods that came off the plane.
Some Hon. Members Some Hon. MembersWhoa! Whoa! [Desk thumping] Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Oh, yes! With the Reg iment truck! [Laughter and desk thumping]
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberWith the Regiment truck! Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: So, be careful what you pray for and get up here and start running your mouth! [Inaudible interjections]
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberPoint of order! Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: And tons of rides, Mr. Speaker, and they did not even pay for it! Did not even pay for it! B ermuda House of Assembly An Hon. Member: Poi nt of order. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Did not even pay for it. Okay? …
Point of order! Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: And tons of rides, Mr. Speaker, and they did not even pay for it! Did not even pay for it!
B ermuda House of Assembly An Hon. Member: Poi nt of order. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Did not even pay for it. Okay? Oh, but guess what? Taxpayers here paid for it! Taxpayers on this Island paid for it. I just told you one of the exempt companies who talked about PLP and the number of plane rides. So, we are going to get to that, and we are going to get Four Seasons coming real soon.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberOh, yes! Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: It is coming, but we are going to save that for the New Year, Premier. We are going to save that, and the contents of that, for the New Year. [ Inaudible interjections and laughter] Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: So, put on your seatbelt. …
Oh, yes! Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: It is coming, but we are going to save that for the New Year, Premier. We are going to save that, and the contents of that, for the New Year. [ Inaudible interjections and laughter] Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: So, put on your seatbelt. Because Christmas is going to be long. Okay? So, Mr. Speaker, this is what I am looking for. I have always been a fair and equitable guy when it comes to the House, wanting fair debate. But what I continue to see is (not initiated from here) personal attacks from over there. And when we respond, Mr. Speaker, Oh, woe is me! Woe is me! Woe is me! The bogeyman has come out! Well, let me tell you something.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberNo, no. Stop that. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: The negativity that I continue to hear, you are creating your own bogeyman. And the more that we continue to talk about wealthy white people who have . . . guess what? The frame of mind is that we will never have. …
No, no. Stop that. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: The negativity that I continue to hear, you are creating your own bogeyman. And the more that we continue to talk about wealthy white people who have . . . guess what? The frame of mind is that we will never have. Okay? Oh, yes. We are always inferring certain things. I am black just like them. I know the inferences. So, do not sit in this House and infer things and think that some of us over here ain’t as Back o’ Town as you! And you keep on that. And you want to know, Mr. Speaker, what has been interesting? The Premier is over there laughing. And the Premier is making misleading statements, telling Bermuda, Oh, well, we got 10 ministries. But he forgot to say, But we are paying for 12!
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberYes! Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: That is misleading the public! Misleading! [ Desk thumping and general uproar] Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: So, I hope, Mr. Speaker — Hon. E. David Burt: Point of order, Mr. Speaker. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: I hope, Mr. Speaker — Hon. E. David Burt: Point …
The SpeakerThe SpeakerWe’ll take the point of order. POINT OF ORDER Hon. E. David Burt: I am going to give the Honour able Member a little bit of time before he, you know, pops a blood vessel in his brain, because he was go-ing on a little bit too much. Hon. L. …
We’ll take the point of order. POINT OF ORDER Hon. E. David Burt: I am going to give the Honour able Member a little bit of time before he, you know, pops a blood vessel in his brain, because he was go-ing on a little bit too much. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Oh, I am just following your suit. Hon. E. David Burt: Hold a second.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerJust talk to the Speaker. [ Laughter]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerTalk to the Speaker. Hon. E. David Burt: It is just very simple. There are 10 ministries in Government, Mr. Speaker. There are 12 Ministers, but there are 10 m inistries in Gover nment. Those are the facts. [ Inaudible interjections] Hon. E. David Burt: There is nothing misleading about …
Talk to the Speaker. Hon. E. David Burt: It is just very simple. There are 10 ministries in Government, Mr. Speaker. There are 12 Ministers, but there are 10 m inistries in Gover nment. Those are the facts. [ Inaudible interjections] Hon. E. David Burt: There is nothing misleading about saying that there are 10 ministries in Gover nment, a number that no one on that side ever got to. [ Inaudible interjections] Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Bermuda, Bermuda, just as you read in the newspaper how things are escalat-ing, how issues are escalating, Bermuda is not stupid.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberNo. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: They are not! [Inaudible interjections and laughter ] Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Bermuda is not! [ Inaudible interjections]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMembers! Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: And so . . . and so— [Gavel] Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: And so, Mr. Speaker — [ Gavel] 410 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly The Speaker: Members! Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Listen! Mr. Speaker, I am grateful to hear …
Members! Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: And so . . . and so— [Gavel] Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: And so, Mr. Speaker — [ Gavel] 410 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly The Speaker: Members! Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Listen! Mr. Speaker, I am grateful to hear the interpolation. You want to know why, Mr. Speaker? I know they know what it means to go down to at least seven. Okay? I know they know. They know! Oh, yes, seven Members! Oh, yes. PLP has been there before. Yes, right? So, you never, you never count out the Opposition. Continue on. I have seen it before! Continue on! But the people of Bermuda are already starting to respond. They are concerned. And they are con-cerned about the here and now. And that ain’t no joke. And I glory in the spirit. Okay? You know, we have got 25 seats . I glory in the spirit. But do not for a minute underestimate Mr. and Mrs. Bermuda. It has ha ppened many times before by this Government. [ Inaudible interjections] Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Many times! Once with the OBA, but many times with this Government they have underestimated. Okay? That pendulum, I can assure you, i f we do not get it right —and I said “we,” because we are all up here —it is going to swing. And when it comes back, be careful. So, yes, we can talk about situational ethics and you know, I would hope, Mr. Speaker, that when people want to get up and use references like “situa-tional ethics” that they really, really understand those kinds of terms. Because there is a whole lot of situational stuff going on. There is enough of it going on, you know. And immediately when I say something that is you know, middle line, all we hear . . . and just the other day on the motion to adjourn, we said, Everyone was cool, you know. What did we have to put up with? More attacks? And personal attacks at that. What for? You are not stimulating the economy by attacking someone. You are not getting jobs back on the table by having to refer to this person and have interpolations in the hallway calling people racists and the like. What are you fixing? You certainly are not fixing what the people of this country are looking for you to fix! They could care less what you personally think about someone over here. What they want is their situation fixed. And in the spirit of working t ogether, we support what is good. But I can assure you that maybe Santa Claus will not be so nice to me, because I am being a little bit bad right now. But, you know what? I am up here working just like everyone else here in the interests of this Island. Some Members just do not like that, b ecause we in the so- called “Westminster System” sit on different sides. I can assure you, I will be more than happy to sit in just about every single one of their homes and have an eggnog with them. But the minute you get personal —and I am saying this to the Premier. The minute that it gets personal . . . when he said to me, Look. You know, he did not say my name, he said, The Opposition, get your people in line. Get your people in line. Because I can assure you . . . you look at this team here. They’ve have got plenty to complain about. It ain’t no shortage of talking over here. Ain’t no shortage of talking over here at all. [ Inaudible interjections]
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberThey are complaining about you. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Complain, complain. You see? You see? They still do not get it. Still sifting through the dark cloud of whatever is in their head. They need to clean it. [ Inaudible interjections]
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberMm-hmm. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Okay? Talking about getting personal. Like I said, the shot was over my bow. If you think you are going to shoot over my bow, and at some point in time it is not going to come back . . . you might shoot a …
Mm-hmm. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Okay? Talking about getting personal. Like I said, the shot was over my bow. If you think you are going to shoot over my bow, and at some point in time it is not going to come back . . . you might shoot a bullet. But a bigger one is coming back. And if you shoot a bigger one, then a missile is com-ing back. [ Laughter] Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: This makes no sense. [Ti mer beeps] Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: It makes no sense with what they are going through. [ Inaudible interjections]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you for your contribution, Member. Does any other Honourable Member wish to contribute or are we closing? [Inaudible interjections and laughter]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. DOCKYARD PREFAB HOUSES —REBUTTAL BY MP MONIZ TO MINISTERIAL STATEMENT
Lt. Col. Hon. David A. BurchI sat quietly this mor ning, and I was curious [because] the statement that was issued in June 2013 actually rev ealed more i nformation than I had on November 23 rd, Mr. Speaker. Actually, what is more astounding to me, Mr. Speaker, is that we have been in office …
I sat quietly this mor ning, and I was curious [because] the statement that was issued in June 2013 actually rev ealed more i nformation than I had on November 23 rd, Mr. Speaker. Actually, what is more astounding to me, Mr. Speaker, is that we have been in office just over 18 months, or 568 days. So, we own all the problems that this country now faces. I get that. We own all the pro blems that we inherited. They belong to us.
Lt. Col. Hon. David A. BurchGovernments actually get to enjoy the successes of their predecessors and the blame of the mistakes that they made. That is the nature of the beast, Mr. Speaker. What I cannot accept is the unmitigated gall of many of the Members of the former administration who carp at every turn. …
Governments actually get to enjoy the successes of their predecessors and the blame of the mistakes that they made. That is the nature of the beast, Mr. Speaker. What I cannot accept is the unmitigated gall of many of the Members of the former administration who carp at every turn. And now, all of a sudden, they have the answer to fix every problem that we face. In the case of the houses at Dockyar d, Mr. Speaker, yes, they were started on under the PLP. I was not a Member of the Government, so I do not know what he is talking about in terms of who contracted anyone. So, I have no clue what he is talking about.
[Inaudible interjections]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerTalk to the Chair. Talk to the Chair. Talk to the Chair.
Lt. Col. Hon. David A. BurchMr. Speaker, as the Minister who I replaced in Public Works, why did he not order the investigation if he has got all this information? They had five years to figure this out. Do not be asking me. I am digging up and cleaning up enough of their mess, Mr. …
Mr. Speaker, as the Minister who I replaced in Public Works, why did he not order the investigation if he has got all this information? They had five years to figure this out. Do not be asking me. I am digging up and cleaning up enough of their mess, Mr. Speaker. What I want to know, Mr. Speaker, is, yes, we agreed to build 100 houses for $36 million. They changed it to 20 houses for $25 million. Stevie Wonder could s ee, Mr. Speaker, that this makes no sense to anyone. And we have yet to have an explanation as to why that is the case. Now, Mr. Speaker, in this House, you know, one of the best inventions is something called “Han-sard.”
Some Hon. Member s: Yes.
Lt. Col. Hon. David A. BurchAnd, Mr. Speaker, you may, in fact, recall the occasion on the 7 th of June 2013, because you, in fact, asked some questions on this very statement, Mr. Speaker, the very question that I am asking today. And you were promised by that M inister then, Mr. Speaker, that …
And, Mr. Speaker, you may, in fact, recall the occasion on the 7 th of June 2013, because you, in fact, asked some questions on this very statement, Mr. Speaker, the very question that I am asking today. And you were promised by that M inister then, Mr. Speaker, that you would get an answer, the House would get an answer. I can quote, if you like, Mr. Speaker.
Lt. Col. Hon. David A. BurchHe is the same Mini ster. The one who is never in the House! That is why he had to make a personal explanation. And he said, Mr. Speaker, on page 1274, dated the 7 th of June 2013, and I will n ot read the begi nning of it, …
He is the same Mini ster. The one who is never in the House! That is why he had to make a personal explanation. And he said, Mr. Speaker, on page 1274, dated the 7 th of June 2013, and I will n ot read the begi nning of it, because it will take up too much of my time. But what I quote, “ But I can undertake to release a statement with respect to how it breaks down. ” (That is the $25 million.) “But all I can say, Mr. Speaker, is that, you know, when you are given lemons, you just try to make lemonade. And we are trying to make lemonade here. ” Well, that is a pretty expensive lemonade, Mr. Speaker. So today we got a statement, Mr. Speaker, and tonight we got a reinforcement of it that the Grand Atlant ic was an abject failure housing project. And they had a clear indication that there was sufficient housing stock after a major exodus of thousands of Bermudians under the PLP Government. Only two units were ever sold at the Grand Atlantic. Be honest, Mr. Speaker. All you have to do is google it. That was no fault of the PLP Government that we only sold two units. Their organisation , one of the . . . one of the [ originations ], I would say, of their entity the Bermuda Environmental Sustainability Task Force . And I really want to know what task force is? Can you call three people a task force, Mr. Speaker? I don’t know. But they harp . . . and all of those env ironmentalists . . . these places were going to fall into South Shore. Nobody remembers that?
Some H on. Members: Yes.
Lt. Col. Hon. David A. BurchAnd nobody would invest in such, because they believed what those people said. 412 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly But even if that were not the case, Mr. Speaker, the indictment does inure to them. I have a memory, Mr. Speaker. I don’t even need …
And nobody would invest in such, because they believed what those people said. 412 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly But even if that were not the case, Mr. Speaker, the indictment does inure to them. I have a memory, Mr. Speaker. I don’t even need Hansard most of the time because I remember on December 13, 2012 . . . was that the day after the election? My date might be a little off. In 2012 was the election. It was the 18th of December. That same task force said, Oh no! All is well. The houses are not going to fall into South Shore now. Everything is fine. So they had five years to do something with those houses. And the only thing they did with those houses, Mr. Speaker, was to put their beloved sailors from America’s Cup up there for two months. That is the only thing they did. So, Mr. Speaker, you know what we are doing now? Which actually astounds me, because I gave them credit for it when we announced more than a year ago what was happening with Grand Atlantic. It was the proposal that was made to the former Government. They could not bring it to fruition. We are. And I don’t know if all of those people on that side live east of Hamilton and so they never travel west, and if they do, they only travel Middle Road. Because if they travelled on Harbour Road, Mr. Speaker, . . . on South Road, Mr. Speaker, you will recall that on August 10 this year, we were criticised up and down by almost every Member on that side for railroading through subsidiaries for the Bermuda Housing Corporation so that they could start that pr oject.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberCorrect.
Lt. Col. Hon. David A. BurchAnd we were criticised up and down the land for it. And I stood on the floor of this House and I said that it would impede the pr ogress and the employment of Bermudians if we did not pass it. And so we used — Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: …
The SpeakerThe SpeakerState your point of order. POINT OF ORDER [Misleading] Hon. L. Craig C annonier: The cries of that particular debate and Bill were the fact that we had one day to debate it. It was presented to us in one day. That is unacceptable. It should never have been allowed. …
State your point of order.
POINT OF ORDER [Misleading]
Hon. L. Craig C annonier: The cries of that particular debate and Bill were the fact that we had one day to debate it. It was presented to us in one day. That is unacceptable. It should never have been allowed. But we went ahead with it. The protest was over receiving a Bill in one day. What kind of consultation is that? And we just heard today how consultation is primary to them.
Lt. Col. Hon. David A. BurchMr. Speaker, yes, they got one day’s notice; I got two. And what I explained to them . . . and I do not understand what the great mystery is, Mr. Speaker. It was fully explained to the Opposition the reason why we were doing it late, the reason why …
Mr. Speaker, yes, they got one day’s notice; I got two. And what I explained to them . . . and I do not understand what the great mystery is, Mr. Speaker. It was fully explained to the Opposition the reason why we were doing it late, the reason why the advice had come late. They served in Government for five years. They know the challenges people have with getting things out of the Attorney General’s Chambers, and lawyers in particular, Mr. Speaker. So we were aware of these too. Go to South Shore if you want to know what is happening up there. There are all sorts of activities, Mr. Speaker. There is all sorts of work going on. And you will find that next week we are going to pass another piece of legislation to provide concessions for the hotel that is going to be developed there, Mr. Speaker. And the reason for that is so that the equi pment that is on its way to Bermuda now can be landed and installed so that the show units are ready to go early next year. We are not going to be deterred, Mr. Speaker, by making progress in this country. Mr. Speaker, they talked about the fact that, you know, we need to be careful about the people of this country, because they are listening and they are not stupid. I can guarantee they are not stupid.
Some Hon. Members Some Hon. MembersAbsolutely!
Lt. Col. Hon. David A. BurchI can guarantee they are not stupid. I can also guarantee, Mr. Speaker, that their memory is crystal clear.
Lt. Col. Hon. David A. BurchCrystal clear. And they, in fact, remember, because they lived it the five years under that administration, Mr. Speaker. And trust me, Mr. Speaker. Just as we won . . . do you know why we won 25 seats, Mr. Speaker? It has never been a big secret; it is …
Crystal clear. And they, in fact, remember, because they lived it the five years under that administration, Mr. Speaker. And trust me, Mr. Speaker. Just as we won . . . do you know why we won 25 seats, Mr. Speaker? It has never been a big secret; it is something that we have always done better than them. We actually knock on peoples’ doors. We actually engage people on a regular ongoing basis. And so we don’t need them to tell us what is going on in our community, they tell us directl y, Mr. Speaker. You want to know why you all retired Wayne Scott in [constituency] 27, and why the current Member won two- thirds of the vote, Mr. Speaker? I will tell them a little secret.
Bermuda House of Assembly An Hon. Member: Your crystal ball.
Lt. Col. Hon. David A. BurchIt’s no crystal ball. We started canvassing in January 2013. That’s why. So, in July 2014, when the former Minister and Member saw me, she said, Colonel, are you running up in 27 again? I said, You know, I can’t answer that. Our party picks its own ca ndidates. But …
It’s no crystal ball. We started canvassing in January 2013. That’s why. So, in July 2014, when the former Minister and Member saw me, she said, Colonel, are you running up in 27 again? I said, You know, I can’t answer that. Our party picks its own ca ndidates. But what that demonstrated to me was that in a year in a half they had never been back into the district, Mr. Speak-er. And that is why they had to ask me if I was running, because, had they been, they would have said, That crazy by e has been up h ere on a regular basis. And that is why. So we do not need any instructions from them about how it is to interact with the people of this country. Mr. Speaker, how much time do I have left?
Lt. Col. Hon. David A. BurchAll rig ht. That is plenty more time than I need. Two other things I would like to address, Mr. Speaker. This whole business about the fact that you saved $11 million by going from 100 units for $36 mi llion to 20 units for $25 million, so, therefore, Bermuda, …
All rig ht. That is plenty more time than I need. Two other things I would like to address, Mr. Speaker. This whole business about the fact that you saved $11 million by going from 100 units for $36 mi llion to 20 units for $25 million, so, therefore, Bermuda, accept that we saved $11 million of your money. Mr. Speaker, I thought that voodoo economics was buried in Simi Valley 14 years ago with the architect of it. [Inaudible interjection]
Lt. Col. Hon. David A. BurchNo, it wasn’t. No, it wasn’t, Mr. Speaker . Clearly it has been resurrected by the former Government. [Laughter]
Lt. Col. Hon. David A. BurchI cannot understand, Mr. Speaker, why . . . I thought . . . when I made the statement not one question, Mr. Speaker.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberNot one!
Lt. Col . Hon. David A. BurchNot a whisper, Mr. Speaker. They always have to go back to the people who write all their stuff and give them something to ask me. And so when you . . . Mr. Speaker, so . . . it astounds me how you could even say with a straight …
Not a whisper, Mr. Speaker. They always have to go back to the people who write all their stuff and give them something to ask me. And so when you . . . Mr. Speaker, so . . . it astounds me how you could even say with a straight face that you saved the country $11 million. Who knows that? Who knows that? Mr. Speaker, then there is the suggestion that there is a glut of housing in the country and so that is why they reduced down to 20 units and why Grand Atlantic is vacant and why they would not build any new units. Mr. Speaker, I do not know who in that Government had responsibility for the Bermuda Hous-ing Corporation during their five years, whether it r esided with the Ministry of Public Works. But that is where it resides now. And I can tell you as of today, Mr. Speaker, the Housing Corporation is currently carrying 407 families on their list for housing in this coun-try. And now, Mr. Speaker, in the interests of full disclosure, not all those [407] people do not have an-ywhere to li ve. Let’s be clear. But this Government has a policy of adequately housing Bermudians. And what I mean by that, Mr. Speaker, is that if you are a family of four, with two children of both sexes, they cannot sleep in the same room. So, under this Go vernment we are looking to accommodate people with that type of family in three bedrooms, Mr. Speaker. So what I am hearing is absolute rubbish. That is what I am hearing, Mr. Speaker, because when you stand and say that we should not build, and I have the advanta ge of having had the responsibility a decade ago, and it is very much déjà vu. They changed their name, but they have the same policy as the UBP, b ecause in 2006 when I took on this responsibility, we had the same problem, Mr. Speaker. No inventory — no inve ntory to sell, no inventory to rent. And we built during the first term of a PLP Government. And I invite them. They can say whatever they like. I know that part of it, Mr. Speaker, is to protect their real estate cartel, who carp and complain. Okay?
[Desk thumping]
Lt. Col. Hon. David A. BurchI know that. And so, when you say to me that you know Bermudians who have vacant units, and they cannot rent them . . . they cannot rent them in the main , Mr. Speaker, because they try to gouge people. That is the reason, Mr. Speaker. That is …
I know that. And so, when you say to me that you know Bermudians who have vacant units, and they cannot rent them . . . they cannot rent them in the main , Mr. Speaker, because they try to gouge people. That is the reason, Mr. Speaker. That is the reas on, Mr. Speaker, because the Housing Corporation has had, before that time, during that time, and after that time, a programme where they will be the tenant. They are not going to get the gouging rents, but you w ill be guaranteed a rent, you will be guaranteed a tenant if you are interested in participating in that programme to house your fellow Bermudians who you claim to say you have some care and concern for. If you did have some care and concern for Bermudians for five years, you would not be sitting on that side of the House! You would not be able to . . . you would not be going into districts on election day in July 2018 and be told by people who you thought were your supporters, Don’t come near me, because I haven’t seen you in five years, and you haven’t done anything to help me. Mr. Speaker, my last point, and I carp on this too, not a whisper from the Auditor General of these Islands. Not a whisper! And with an indictment like this, you say to me that you built 20 houses at $1.25 million a house? Those people should be living in Tucker’s Town. 414 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly Some Hon. Members: Yes.
Lt. Col. Hon. David A. BurchThey should not be living in . . . there are four units in one building, you know, Mr. Speaker. I know you know that. There are four units in one building— and no yard! For $1.25 mi llion! What I want them to do is answer that. We did …
They should not be living in . . . there are four units in one building, you know, Mr. Speaker. I know you know that. There are four units in one building— and no yard! For $1.25 mi llion! What I want them to do is answer that. We did not make that decision, Mr. Speaker. They did. And, Mr. Speaker, I can tell you that we are headed to build more houses around here. Oh yes, we are, because there is not a day that goes by that people bypass the Housing Corporation and figure that the Minister has a secret supply of houses under his desk, and that if they actually get to him they will get those houses. That is not the case, Mr. Speaker. But what it does do for me is it causes me to push as hard as I possibly can to ensure that we are going to be in a position to be able to help the people of this country in terms of housing. I do not need a lecture from anybody to do that. That is my mandate! That is my remit, Mr. Speaker. I have been in this movie before and had some success. Normally, they say . . . what they have not said, Mr. Speaker, because I have had this too. You can build, but you can only build in certain places. You cannot build in Paget, Mr. Speaker. Because I very well remember, clear as a pipe stack the Loug hlands complex, Mr. Speaker. I remember the announcement.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberCan’t do it.
Lt. Col. Hon. David A. BurchI remember the campaign. Ev en after the first phase was built, they still talked about it. And I shall give them an education in politics. When it’s built you need to shut the hell up Because when you send your person up here to try and get some of …
I remember the campaign. Ev en after the first phase was built, they still talked about it. And I shall give them an education in politics. When it’s built you need to shut the hell up Because when you send your person up here to try and get some of those votes, they are going to tell them what the people told Grant Gibbons.
Lt. Col. Hon. David A. BurchThe only thing I r emember coming out of your mouth, Mr. Gibbons, is that you did not want me to live there. And so why are you coming to us for my vote? So, Mr. Speaker, you know there is a mult itude of things. They want to know …
The only thing I r emember coming out of your mouth, Mr. Gibbons, is that you did not want me to live there. And so why are you coming to us for my vote? So, Mr. Speaker, you know there is a mult itude of things. They want to know what happened, I suspect in the case of whatever the Opposition Lea der says tonight, I am surprised that he does not know what it is, because I know that in 2012 when they won the el ection and appointed a chairman of WEDCO, do you know what he spent his whole first year doing? Sitting in WEDCO looking at every file that went through that organisation, looking for what the media had said had gone on, and could not find a thing. I do not know what Ministers of Public Works did under the OBA in that office, Mr. Speaker. And I suspect that the one who has the biggest mouth is going to speak after me and try to explain it away. But I do know this, Mr. Speaker —
Lt. Col. Hon. David A. BurchCivil servants talk, Mr. Speaker. Oh, do they talk. And they will let you know exactly what went on. I am afflicted with the obsession of wandering around that Ministry talking to people. So I get to understand what it was like. I get to understand what it was not …
Civil servants talk, Mr. Speaker. Oh, do they talk. And they will let you know exactly what went on. I am afflicted with the obsession of wandering around that Ministry talking to people. So I get to understand what it was like. I get to understand what it was not like, Mr. Speaker. And I can assure you, Mr. Speaker, that whatever the assertions are in relation to . . . to divert, I did take one private plane ride and the Government of Bermuda paid for it. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Minister. Any other Member? I recognise the Minister of National Security. PLP GOVERNMENT REPRESENTS THE WORKING MAN AND WOMAN Hon. Wayne Caines: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I heard the Leader of the Opp osition. He was very animated. He spoke very passionately. He said a number …
Thank you, Minister. Any other Member? I recognise the Minister of National Security.
PLP GOVERNMENT REPRESENTS THE WORKING MAN AND WOMAN
Hon. Wayne Caines: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I heard the Leader of the Opp osition. He was very animated. He spoke very passionately. He said a number of things. I was able to focus on that which he said, and get right to the crux of it. There were a few things that he said which he clearly does not understand the context of which he was sa ying it. He made reference two weeks ago to th e Progressive Labour Party having a view of the bogeyman. And he said it again tonight, about the view that there is a bogeyman. He took umbrage to what the MP Famous, for constituency 11, was saying. If you do not understand the context, or the history, of this country, then you will see the protestation, the highlighting of injustice in this country, as being the work of the bogeyman.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberCorrect. Hon. Wayne Caines: We represent a party that speaks for the voiceless, the working men and women of this country that were disposed of their land down Bermuda House of Assembly in Tucker’s Town, that had their land taken from them, and it was re- built on. We speak …
Correct.
Hon. Wayne Caines: We represent a party that speaks for the voiceless, the working men and women of this country that were disposed of their land down
Bermuda House of Assembly in Tucker’s Town, that had their land taken from them, and it was re- built on. We speak for the people in this party who live in the central Pembroke parishes that do not have yards. And their homes , their yards . . . they were not allowed to buy homes with yards because was a part of a master plan to keep them from having the ability to vote.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberRight! Hon. Wayne Caines: So when we speak of the people that we represent, this is a his toric representation of injustice in this country. We represent the working man, the struggling people of this country. That is the voice which the Member for constituency 11 speaks. He speaks for …
Right! Hon. Wayne Caines: So when we speak of the people that we represent, this is a his toric representation of injustice in this country. We represent the working man, the struggling people of this country. That is the voice which the Member for constituency 11 speaks. He speaks for the working men and women of this country. And we can never forget that. So something that you call “the bogeyman” are the things that we see as injustice, as white priv ilege, the inability for us to have specific things, have neighbourhood schools . . . do not have opportunities that our colleagues have. The ver y reason we are here is to [level] the playing field, but you call it “the bogeyman.” [Inaudible interjection] Hon. Wayne Caines: Sometimes, sometimes —
The SpeakerThe SpeakerTalk to the Chair. Minister! Minister! Hon. Wayne Caines: —sometimes — [Inaudible interjection]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMinister! Hon. Wayne Caines: Sometimes you have to hig hlight wrongdoing. Sometimes you have to highlight wrongdoing, injustice, unfairness, to change it!
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberYes! Hon. Wayne Caines: And if we don’t bring it and keep it in the forefront, we forget that many people that we represent are not living in gated communities, have the ability to be at Coral Beach playing tennis, that they are struggling every day to make ends meet. …
Yes! Hon. Wayne Caines: And if we don’t bring it and keep it in the forefront, we forget that many people that we represent are not living in gated communities, have the ability to be at Coral Beach playing tennis, that they are struggling every day to make ends meet. Those are the people that we represent. So, when we speak of . . . when you speak of the bogeyman, we are disassembling white privilege. And that is not necessarily a bad thing. We are talking about a party that has to be focused on where we are going for our people. You spoke about arrogant, and a pendulum swing, and telling us to be careful about what we are doing, and not to be haughty. Look at the work we are doing. It speaks voluminously. If we allow the Royal Gazette to paint the narrative, that will be, and that is what is creating the bogeyman of the PLP leadership.
[Inaudible interjection]
Hon. Wayne Caines: Because you would love this country to think that we are irresponsible, taking mon-ey and stealing money and not taking care of the f inances of this country. But that is not the case. We are seeing prudent leadership. And it is shown by what we are doing with NAMLC [ National Anti -Money Laundering Committee] and how we have put a number of Bills which have gone through this House and our assessments are coming back and we are in good order . Those are the things that we are doing to change this country, when we are working on things like the issues with economic substance, when we are doing things like working with the Bermuda Regiment, not only to end conscription, but to give the young men and women in the Bermuda Regiment other a lternatives. So when you speak of the bogeyman, when we are taking this country that, for years, has dispossessed people of colour, has taken away their opportunities, it is our responsibility to bring an equal pl aying field so that everyone gets a balanced opportunity in Bermuda. Now, I know that we are on both sides and on different sides of the aisle. But we must bring it back to why these Members are here. We sacrifice.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberAnd Boundary Lane. Hon. Wayne Caines: And Boundary Lane. We work hard. We sacrifice. We give our all for this country. And sometimes, in the cut and thrust of this House we oftentimes forget, all of us, why we are here. We have seen this week a number of things …
And Boundary Lane.
Hon. Wayne Caines: And Boundary Lane. We work hard. We sacrifice. We give our all for this country. And sometimes, in the cut and thrust of this House we oftentimes forget, all of us, why we are here. We have seen this week a number of things highlighted in our community. But let me tell you this: We stand on our post every day with legislation that has to be passed in this House. We now see roadside sobriety testing.
Some Hon. Members Some Hon. MembersYes. Hon. Wayne Caines: And it is not popular in all segments of this c ommunity. But guess what we are g oing to see? We are going to see less people dying on our roads. We are going to see paying closer attention to their speed and to changing …
Yes.
Hon. Wayne Caines: And it is not popular in all segments of this c ommunity. But guess what we are g oing to see? We are going to see less people dying on our roads. We are going to see paying closer attention to their speed and to changing of their responsibility on the roads. That is what we are going to do, in the absence of all the noise, in the absence of everybody pointing fingers and getting up. And, of course, we are going to vociferous on some points. But let’s look at what we are doing in the FinTech space. Forty -four companies have set up in Bermuda. This coming week we will make announc ements of more companies coming and setting up and creating jobs in Bermuda. So, after all the hype is 416 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly gone, everything that we are doing is to continue to make this country a better place. When we look at the sugar tax, a number of people have decried the sugar tax. But what is the basis of it? We have some of the highest instances of diabetes in this country —
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberIn the world. Hon. Wayne Caines: In the world. The epicentre of this legislation was to change behaviour and to spend less money and to make sure that our people live longer and healthier and fruitful lives. Guess what? That is not coming from an ywhere else. That is coming …
In the world.
Hon. Wayne Caines: In the world. The epicentre of this legislation was to change behaviour and to spend less money and to make sure that our people live longer and healthier and fruitful lives. Guess what? That is not coming from an ywhere else. That is coming from this party. So when you tell the story we have to make sure the whole st ory is told, Mr. Speaker. Because they would like for us to be labelled as people that mismanaged projects, people that do illegal and nefarious things, and people who just come to this House and scream about racism. But that is not the case. The agenda is cle ar. We are working to change the life of each and every Bermudian. And we know, and we are clear of the responsibility. So we are not going to wait on the Royal Gazette to tell ev erybody in this country what is going on; they won’t do it!
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberThat’s right! Hon. Wayne Caines: Because they represent el ements that want to demonise and villainise. And, yes, that is not the bogeyman. That is fact. Because you can look at historically what has happened in this country.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberYes! Hon. Wayne Caines: But the reality of it is . . . it is not just the words that you know. We are looking at the actions of how this country is changing through this party’s leadership.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberYes. Exactly. Hon. Wayne Caines: We have seen an increase in gang violence in Bermuda. And this Government is working to change it. We have seen more G.R.E.A.T. [Gang Resistance Education And Training] graduations, police officers, community support workers, g oing into this community, rolling up their sleeves. T hree …
Yes. Exactly. Hon. Wayne Caines: We have seen an increase in gang violence in Bermuda. And this Government is working to change it. We have seen more G.R.E.A.T. [Gang Resistance Education And Training] graduations, police officers, community support workers, g oing into this community, rolling up their sleeves. T hree graduations this week, two next week. Middle schoolers are now being trained how to deal with violence, how to deal with conflict. We have created two circles, restorative circles at CedarBridge and at Berkeley where our young men are coming in and, when there is discord, when there is disquiet, no, they are not being taught how to fight; they are being taught how to change it, because we understand with certain things that are happening in our community, there have been years of things that have happened to us that this party is working to r everse. So the psyche and the psychology of our people . . . they are being taught how to deal effectively with conflict. That is not being done by anybody else. That is being done by this party. So, when people talk about the bogeyman . . . People, do not be misguided by that. Look at the ac-tion, look at the development, look at the movement. And I will not reflect on an earlier debate, but we have seen the tax reform. So we have had to go up into the echelon of business, come down to the social strat osphere and balance this country. How could we not have the opportunity to do so? We see all the things that are happening; we see what is happening and working in education. But we continue to have to do so. What w e have learned from the Opposition is that they focus so heavily on specific segments that they neglected the people of Bermuda, the everyday men and women. Those are not my words; they sit in the very seat that bears an effigy to their failings. And now t hey challenge us as we right the wrongs of their leadership and underserved civil service, and understaffed civil service, and under -funded civil service. And now we are trying to make heads and tails of the mess that they have created. And they challenge us to create a bogeyman? We are balancing this country. Our children go to these schools. This is our country, and we will continue . . . look at the legislation that we have passed. Look at the opportunities that we have given to young Bermudians. When yo u go to the Bermuda College, the majority of the children there ran to us at our last meeting thanking us for giving them the opportunity to be able to afford to go to school. Do you know who cut the funding? The OBA Government cut the funding for education!
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberAah! Hon. Wayne Caines: Where do all the increases go? Show me the increases. The increases went to the America’s Cup! And they are now held to account for their mismanagement of the social element of this country. They laud that they changed this country economically. At what expense? To …
Aah!
Hon. Wayne Caines: Where do all the increases go? Show me the increases. The increases went to the America’s Cup! And they are now held to account for their mismanagement of the social element of this country. They laud that they changed this country economically. At what expense? To the very expense of the people, now that we are left to try and pull the pieces together. And then when we challenge them on it, when we challenge their bad record of social justice, their bad recor d of social justice, they throw in our face, when we highlight the injustice of years in this country, they throw in our faces that we are imagining a b ogeyman. Do they understand the very effigy of what we have to go through in this country every day as
Bermuda House of Assembly Bermudians struggling to make it while they represent an oligarchy that oppressed the working majority in this country for years? And they say that they speak on our behalf? For generations they represent an oligarchy that oppressed the people of this country. And we now struggle to keep it together, to balance it. And they now have the audacity to say when we reference their bad deeds that we are speaking of the bogeyman? We will continue to work for the people of Bermuda. And sometimes when we come to t he House we have to remind each other through strong words of our past. We have to stand for justice. And sometimes it is uncomfortable to hear what the oligarchy has done, how they have benefitted, how they have gilded their homes, how they have gilded their lives off the blood, sweat and tears of black Bermudi-ans. Sometimes we have to highlight that and it’s uncomfortable for all. But we will continue to work through it. But guess what? The disadvantage that every one of the Opposition has is that we wil l do it for all of Bermuda— white, black, everybody in this country.
[Desk thumping] Hon. Wayne Caines: We will work to see their benefit. And that is the difference. We believe in a good Bermuda for all, that high tide raises all boats. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. [Desk thumping]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member. Does any other Honourable Member . . . we recognise the Honourable Minister of Education. You have the floor. PUBLIC EDUCATION —INDUSTRIAL ACTION BY BERMUDA ’S UNION OF TEACHERS Hon. Diallo V. S. Rabain: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I see tonight we are a bit fired …
Thank you, Honourable Member. Does any other Honourable Member . . . we recognise the Honourable Minister of Education. You have the floor.
PUBLIC EDUCATION —INDUSTRIAL ACTION BY BERMUDA ’S UNION OF TEACHERS
Hon. Diallo V. S. Rabain: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I see tonight we are a bit fired up. I was hoping we would actually hear . . . I was hoping that we might get out of here a little bit early. But tonight, Mr. Speaker, I find myself having to stand to speak about education and what has been going on. I want to update the people of Bermuda about how hard this Go vernment has been working to achieve our election mandate. And that is to reform education. Mr. Speaker, I stand tonight before my colleagues and before Bermuda not only as the Minister of Education, but as a parent with a child within the public school system. I stand as a citizen of this cou ntry who is very concerned about the action we have seen within our public school system as of late. And I know I am joined by other colleagues who stand on this side of the House who entrust their children to public school education. When I look at MP Ming, when I look at the Premier, when I look at MP Furbert, when I look at MP Famous, we all trust our children to t he public school system. That is something that we can say about this side of the House, Mr. Speaker, because we are ser ious about what is happening in education. Like all, I am saddened by . . . yes. The Member interpolates, did I go to public school education. I attended the Elliot Primary, Mr. Speaker. The same school my daughter attends. Mr. Speaker, I am saddened by the recent events. And I do not want to see our educators engaged in any sort of industrial action. That is detr imental to the studies of our students. Our students show up for school faithfully and expect to learn. And they expect their teachers to be there as well. But, Mr. Speaker, right now we have a problem. We have a problem, Mr. Speaker, that is not unsolvable. We have a problem that requires the will, we have a problem that requires the fortitude to do the things necessary to take education to the height it needs to be taken to, Mr. Speaker. We have been here for 18 months. And every day is spent working hard to get our education system up to the point where it is supposed to be, Mr. Speak-er. When we first took office, Mr. Speaker, one of the first things that I, as Education Minister, had to do was bring a Cabinet paper to refurbish Dellwood Middle School, a school that stood closed since May of 2017 under the former administration. And they had not even begun to start the work needed to get it ready for September. The very first thing we had to do was spend money to get that school ready, Mr. Speaker. Those are the types of chall enges we had to deal with when coming in. We had failing infrastructure from years of neglect where the former Government took money from our schools to spend on other things. Mr. Speaker, we have a Shadow Minister r eleasing statement after statement of hollow things every week talking about what is wrong in education. Mr. Speaker, let’s talk about what is wrong in educ ation right now which is getting fixed. Mr. Speaker, the Shadow Minister of Educ ation had the audacity to release a statement yesterday that talked about the need for more collaboration, the need for paraeducators, the need for learning support teachers, the need for professional development. Well, let me tell the Bermuda public what happened between 2012 and 2017, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker , in 2012 there was $1 million for professional development. In 2017, it was zero.
Some Hon. Members Some Hon. MembersAah! [Inaudible interjections Hon. Diallo V. S. Rabain: Mr. Speaker, in 2012, paraeducators had a budget of $5.6 million. In 2017, it was $4 million. 418 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly Mr. Speaker, in 2012 to 2017 the budget for learning support stayed the exact …
Aah! [Inaudible interjections Hon. Diallo V. S. Rabain: Mr. Speaker, in 2012, paraeducators had a budget of $5.6 million. In 2017, it was $4 million. 418 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly Mr. Speaker, in 2012 to 2017 the budget for learning support stayed the exact same. Why is this an issue, Mr. Speaker? It is because we recognise that this young man at Dellwood who is having pro blems did not turn 13. He wasn’t born on Sunday and turn 13 on Tuesday. It took years for him to get to that point. But we knew that he was like that. We knew some of the students coming through the system needed additional support. But did the Government put things in place to support that? No, they did not. In five years they did nothing, Mr. Speaker.
[Inaudible interjections ]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMembers! Members! Hon. Diallo V. S. Rabain: Mr. Speaker, the budget for education in 2012 was $120 million. When this group was voted out, that budget had dropped to $109 [ million].
Some Hon. Members Some Hon. MembersAah! Hon. Diallo V. S. Rabain: We could not do what needed to be done with the budget they left in place. They neglected our students, they neglected our buildings, they neglected our educators, and now this Government has t he fortitude to do the things which need to be …
Aah!
Hon. Diallo V. S. Rabain: We could not do what needed to be done with the budget they left in place. They neglected our students, they neglected our buildings, they neglected our educators, and now this Government has t he fortitude to do the things which need to be done to put the things in place to ensure that education is where it needs to be. We were elected to do that, Mr. Speaker —
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMembers, Members. Hon. Diallo V. S. Rabain: We were elected to do that , and we will do that. Change is difficult. But change is coming, Mr. Speaker. We spent the first 18 months making sure that our buildings were safe for our students. We spent the first 18 months …
Members, Members.
Hon. Diallo V. S. Rabain: We were elected to do that , and we will do that. Change is difficult. But change is coming, Mr. Speaker. We spent the first 18 months making sure that our buildings were safe for our students. We spent the first 18 months looking at the system and making sure that we had things i n place. We spent the first 18 months increasing scholarships for our st udents so they can go to Bermuda College. We spent the first 18 months increasing monies to make sure that we have the programmes in place to restore our infrastructure, upgrading our technology. We are not there just yet, Mr. Speaker. But we are intent that this is what will happen, despite the hollow attempt by an asleep- at-the-wheel Shadow Minister who had no idea what was going on in this Ministry —
The SpeakerThe SpeakerLet’s keep the comm ents . . . you’ve been on a good line, keep the comments up high. Hon. Diallo V. S. Rabain: —has no idea what was going on in this Ministry, but now has all of the a nswers, Mr. Speaker. I find it disingenuous that this …
Let’s keep the comm ents . . . you’ve been on a good line, keep the comments up high.
Hon. Diallo V. S. Rabain: —has no idea what was going on in this Ministry, but now has all of the a nswers, Mr. Speaker. I find it disingenuous that this Opposition, who spent their time in Government doing nothing to increase the numbers in these critical areas I spoke about, such as paraeducators and learning support teachers, did nothing to increase those numbers but now they have all the answers. This Government is now spending all of i ts time to right the wrongs of yesteryear. If I have an ything to say, Mr. Speaker, I would say that they just went back to the days of the UBP when they did not care about school. School was just something that they put in place so the people would have something to do. They had no intention of educating our children, Mr. Speaker. And it is obvious from what we see t oday. No indication, Mr. Speaker. So, when you look at the BUT’s list of grie vances, I empathise with them. When I talk to the teachers, I empathise with them. I understand what they are going through. But I want them to know that this Government has their back. And this Government will do what needs to be done to ensure that our schools have the resources that they need to do the things for our children that need to be done, Mr. Speaker. We are making progress. We are a long way away from where we want to be. We are a long way away from where we should have been. But if this Government did not have to take a break and sit back and see what we n eed to do better in order to win back Government. It is unfortunate that our children had to suffer through the years of an OBA Gover nment, Mr. Speaker. But they will not suffer through the years of a PLP Government. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
[Desk thumping]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member. Does anyone else wish to speak? Any Ho nourable Member before the Premier closes out? Does any other Member wish to speak? The Premier will close it out. I hear comments from the other side. [Inaudible interjection s]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerPremier? Premier, take the floor. JETGATE Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I will not talk long. But it has been a very interesting night. It was a night which started on a good wicket and then got very excited by an Opposition Leader that exhorts …
Premier? Premier, take the floor.
JETGATE Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I will not talk long. But it has been a very interesting night. It was a night which started on a good wicket and then got very excited by an Opposition Leader that exhorts everyone to tell the truth, but refuses to tell the truth about why he went on a jet ride, Mr. Speaker. So, the only thing I have to say is . . . and I have said it on numerous occasions. If the first thing you say when you are sworn into office as the Leader of the Opposition is that you are going to come clean
Bermuda House of Assembly on what actually took place in Jetgate, and you actua lly refuse to come clean about what took place in Jetgate, then I do not believe the people of thi s cou ntry should deserve to believe anything that it is that you are saying until you actually talk about the one thing of which you promised to say. Because no matter what you want to talk —
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Point of order, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerWe will take your point of order. POINT OF ORDER [Misleading] Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Clearly the Honourable Member is misleading the House and the general pu blic. He certainly does not know what he is talking about, about coming clean. All the information is a lready out there. That …
The SpeakerThe SpeakerPremier. Hon. E. David Burt: See, Mr. Speaker? When people . . . there is a sign in West Pembroke that says som ething along the lines of, you know, if you tell the truth you don’t have to remember what you said. And it is very interesting that if …
Premier.
Hon. E. David Burt: See, Mr. Speaker? When people . . . there is a sign in West Pembroke that says som ething along the lines of, you know, if you tell the truth you don’t have to remember what you said. And it is very interesting that if you came into office and, in swearing in, you say you are going to disclose all of the information, and then you put out no additional information . . . and then tell the people that it is in the public domain—
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Point of order, Mr. Speaker— Hon. E. David Burt: —why would you have to say that you are going to disclose information? Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Point of order, Mr. Speaker. Maybe if —
The SpeakerThe SpeakerPremier, we will take his point of order. POINT OF ORDER [Misleading] Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Both of those things aside, there was an interview that I did immediately . . . not immediately, but pretty soon after which —
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberWhat’s your point of order, man? Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: He is misleading the House. More information was given. POINT OF ORDER [Misleading]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerContinue. Hon. E. David Burt: So, Mr. Speaker, you do realise that in the last minute the story changed twice. The information first of all, it was already all in the public domain, and then it was, Well, I put additional information in the public domain. While at the same …
Continue.
Hon. E. David Burt: So, Mr. Speaker, you do realise that in the last minute the story changed twice. The information first of all, it was already all in the public domain, and then it was, Well, I put additional information in the public domain. While at the same point in time, the former Leader of his party is still telling him that he needs to come clean ov er the information of what happened with Jetgate. But that’s okay, Mr. Speaker, because there is one thing that I will agree with the Opposition Leader on. And that is talking about Jetgate is not going to get anyone a job. That is a fact. However, when t he pe ople on that side want to go back through history, or talk about openness and transparency, but refuse to be open and transparent about their own activities, Mr. Speaker, that means that the people of this country, just like when they were in Government, do not trust them, they still will not trust them now, Mr. Speaker. It is that simple. So, Mr. Speaker, there is a whole lot of mu mbling. You can point -of-order me, Mr. Opposition Leader, if you want, but you will have your time to speak.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerTalk to me. Hon. E. David Burt: Because here is the thing, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerTalk to me. PLP EXECUTING ITS PLATFORM Hon. E. David Burt: No problem. Here is the thing, Mr. Speaker. Look at the progress that is being made. Look at the progress that is being made, whether or not it is overseas, whether or not it is in a meeting that …
Talk to me.
PLP EXECUTING ITS PLATFORM Hon. E. David Burt: No problem. Here is the thing, Mr. Speaker. Look at the progress that is being made. Look at the progress that is being made, whether or not it is overseas, whether or not it is in a meeting that I held here earlier today with a company that is setting up operations that will be setting up office space and moving people to Ber-muda to start jobs, whether or no t it is the Economic Substance Act which we tabled today after months and months of negotiations with the European Union and our private sector partners to make sure whether or not those are the exit reports which we got on our draft mutual evaluation report on our Anti -Money Laundering Assessment, that they did not do any work on getting done, Mr. Speaker!
[Inaudible interjections ] Hon. E. David Burt: This is the progress that is being made. So while we hear the endless cries about retail sales, at the same point in time that the chairman of 420 7 December 2018 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly their favourite mouthpiece, the Royal Gazette, is on TV every night telling people to shop online, we will not take our eyes off of the goal. And do you know why, Mr. Speaker? Because we were elected to make life better for people. We were elected to make Bermuda fairer for people. We were elected to advance our agenda for people. And today we took another step in that direction. So, while Opposition Members will talk about the fact that the increase for pensioners in this country is not that big, guess what? They are getting an increase in line with inflation. Those are the facts. We understand what we were elected to do. We have a platform that we were elected to execute. We are executing on that platform week by week by week, Mr. Speaker. And we will continue that march. And it does not matter how animated the Opposition Leader gets on a weekly basis, b ecause until he comes clean on (and I quote from what he said inside of that fall of Clinton that, I, over time , was not completely honest . Well, you have plenty of time to be completely honest now, Mr. Opposition Leader. But until that point in time, until that point in time, until that point in time, Mr. Speaker, quite frankly, the people of this country should not listen to anything he has to say, because the only question they need to know, the only question that they need to understand is, why can’t that side not be trusted to be clear and honest with the people of this country. So, here is what I will say in closing, Mr.
SpeakerThe SpeakerWe have had a good debate. I want to commend the Minister of Health for her Bills. I want to commend the Minister of Finance for a very busy day— [ Desk thumping] Hon. E. David Burt: —at the office, making sure that we continue to pass legislation that is …
We have had a good debate. I want to commend the Minister of Health for her Bills. I want to commend the Minister of Finance for a very busy day— [ Desk thumping] Hon. E. David Burt: —at the office, making sure that we continue to pass legislation that is going to i mprove the environment that we have here in Bermuda and make things better. And I want to thank the people who contributed to the debate on the Tax Reform Commission. We will come back next week, Mr. Speaker, for some very important debates. And we will continue the work of which we are doing for the people of this country. We will execute our mission, and we will build that better and fairer Bermuda and no amount of gesticulation from that side is going to deter us from our mission. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. [ Desk thumping]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Members. We stand adjourned until Friday next at 10:00 am. [ Gavel] [At 10:44 pm, the House stood adjourned until 10:00 am Friday, 14 December 2018.]