Hansard — March 16, 2018 — Bermuda Parliament

The Speaker The Speaker Good morning, Members. Members, Minutes of the last three sittings, those of the 7th of March, the 9th of March, and the 12th of March have been circulated. Are there any corrections or omissions to any of those Minutes? No corrections , no amendments, no omissions. The Minutes from the …

The Speaker The Speaker There are none. ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE SPEAKER OR MEMBER PRESIDING

The Speaker The Speaker There are none. MESSAGES FROM THE SENATE

The Speaker The Speaker There are none. PAPERS AND OTHER COMMUNICATIONS TO THE HOUSE

The Speaker The Speaker We have four papers and communic ations to the House toda y. The Clerk: In the name of the Premier.

The Speaker The Speaker All four are in the name of the Premier. We are going to have one of the other Members table the papers for him because the Premier has given an indication that he is going to be delayed. I think it is the Deputy Premier. [Inaudible interjections] Hon. Walter H. …

The Speaker The Speaker Continue. INTERNATIONAL COOPERATION (TAX INFORMATION EXCHANGE AGREEMENTS) COUNT RY-BY-COUNTRY REPORTING AMENDMENT REGULA TIONS 2017 Hon. Walter H. Roban: On behalf of the Honourable Premier and Minister of Finance, Mr. Speaker, I am honoured to attach and submit for the information of the Honourable House of Assembly the International Cooperation (Tax …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Deputy. Continue on with the next one. INTERNATIONAL COOPERATION (TAX INFORMATION EXCHANGE AGREEMENTS) COMMON REPORTING STANDARD AMENDMENT REGULATIONS 2017 Hon. Walter H. Roban: Mr. Speaker, I have the ho nour to attach and submit for the information of the Honourable House of Assembly the International C ooperation (Tax …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Deputy. Continue on. REVENUE (APPOINTMENT OF CUSTOMS AREA) (BERMUDA MAIL PROCESSING CENTRE) NOTICE 2017 Hon. Walter H. Roban: Mr. Speaker, I have the ho nour to attach and submit for the information of the 1750 16 March 2018 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly Honourable House of …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Deputy. REAL ESTATE BROKERS’ LICENSING REGULATIONS 2017 Hon. Walter H. Roban: Mr. Speaker, I have the ho nour to attach and submit for the information of the Honourable House of Assembly the Real Estate Br okers’ Licensing Regulations 2017, proposed to be made by the Minister responsible for …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Deputy. PETITIONS

The Speaker The Speaker There are no petitions. STATEMENTS BY MINISTERS AND JUNIOR MINISTERS

The Speaker The Speaker This morning we are going to have a lengthy session, it looks like. We have 10 Statements on the Order Paper today. Yes. And the copies are being circulated as we speak, I believe. The first Statement is in the name of the Premier. Mr. Premier, would you like to …

The Speaker The Speaker Good morning. MINISTERS AND MEMBERS OF THE LEGISLA TURE (SALARIES AND PENSIONS) REVIEW BOARD Hon. E. David Burt: Mr. Speaker, the first Statement that I will be giving is in regard to the Ministers and Members of the Legislature (Salaries and Pensions) Act 1975. Mr. Sp eaker, Honourable Members will …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Premier. I believe you have a further Statement that you would like to do at this time. Hon. E. David Burt: Yes. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Copies, Mr. Speaker?

The Speaker The Speaker Copies are being . . . Hon. E. David Burt: Standing Orders on Statements : Copies do not go until I start speaking.

The Speaker The Speaker Premier , it is my House; I will set the tone. You are on your feet. Deliver your speech. Thank you. Bermuda House of Assembly Hon. E. David Burt: I will proceed when you are ready for me to start, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker The Speaker I said, “ deliver.” You can start. Hon. E. David Burt: Okay. UPDATE ON PROGRESS OF INITIAL COIN OFFERING REGULATIONS (ICOS) Hon. E. David Burt: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to pr ovide an update to this Honourable House on the st atus of prop osed legislation to regulate initial …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Premier. On the Order Paper, we have the next two Statements by Minister Wilson. Minister Wilson, would you like to do your Statement now? Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Yes, thank you. Good morning,

Mr. Speaker. The Speaker You have the floor. HEALTH WORKFORCE PLANNING Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. Speaker and Honourable Members, I rise this morning to inform you of the Health Ministry ’s activities to improve health workforce planning in Bermuda. As mentioned in the House on several occasions over the past two years, the …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Minister. Would you like to go ahead and do your second Statement at this point? Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Yes, with your leave. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker The Speaker Continue on. SUGAR TAX CONSULTATION RESULT S (INTERIM REPORT) Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. Speaker, I rise again to inform this Honourable House of the preliminary findings from the su gar tax consultation . Honourable Members will recall that the Speech from the Throne of September 2017 indicated that the …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Minister. We have further Statements. But, Minister Burch, before I recognise you, just hold on for one second. I would just like to recognise that, in our aud ience today, we have with us, visiting for their annual Theatrical, the Harvard Hasty Pudding Theat ricals group, visiting. And …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Will they sing for us, Mr. Speaker?

The Speaker The Speaker I beg your pardon?

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Will they sing for us?

The Speaker The Speaker Would you like to sing for them?

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member No, no. [Statements by Ministers, continuing]

The Speaker The Speaker Okay. All right. We had a Member who, I thought he was offering to sing for you that time. But he declined it. Good morning, Minister. You have the floor.

Lt. Col. Hon. David A. Burch Good morning, Mr. Speaker. I am sure they will get some theatrical ideas from us, as well. [Laughter] ALL-TERRAIN VEHICLES (ATVs)

Lt. Col. Hon. David A. Burch Mr. Speaker, I rise this morning to report further on the proposed ATV Tours for the West End of the Island. Before doing so, ho wever, there is some merit in recapping how we got to this place. Mr. Speaker, not surprisingly, the proposal generated considerable interest in the community …

Lt. Col. Hon. David A. Burch After assuming office, an approach was made to the Ministry to present the proposal for our consideration. We set about following our own course of due diligence to assure ourselves that we had considered all the facts in this proposal, followed the law, and would not be influenced by a …

The Speaker The Speaker Go right ahead. Go right ahead. I have got two ears, Minister. I have got two ears.

Lt. Col. Hon. David A. Burch • the vehicles will not traverse any virgin land, but will utilise the p aved Railway Trail and service roads; • the operating hours of 10:00 am to 4:00 pm, Monday to Fri day, are more than reasonable and will not impinge on many of the other users of the …

The Speaker The Speaker Minister, thank you for that. Before you move on to your next Statement, I would just like to recognise that Mr. Hollis is in the Gallery this morning.

Lt. Col. Hon. David A. Burc h Excellent. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. [Statements by Ministers, continuing]

The Speaker The Speaker Continue on with your next Statement. THE GOVERNMENT ESTATE

Lt. Col. Hon. David A. Burch Mr. Speaker, you will know from the Budget Debate for the Ministry of Public Works that Cabinet recently approved the introduction of revised space standards for government offices in order to make more efficient use of space and to reduce costs. Mr. Speaker, as part of the Public Service Reform …

The Speaker The Speaker It is not a surprise, eh? Bermuda House of Assembly Lt. Col. Hon. David A. Burch: So, to set the example, the lead entity in communicating and enforcing this message—the Estates Department —will lead by exampl e and be one of the first departments to trans ition to an open …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Minister. The next two Statements, I believe, are in the name of the Minister of National Security. Minister Caines, would you like to take the floor? Hon. Wayne Caines: Good morning, Mr. Sp eaker.

The Speaker The Speaker Good morning. Hon. Wayne Caines: Mr. Speaker, the first Statement I would like to read is the Statement on the Montgomery Summit 2018.

The Speaker The Speaker Continue. Hon. Wayne Caines: Sir?

The Speaker The Speaker Continue. MONTGOMERY SUMMIT 2018 Hon. Wayne Caines: Mr. Speaker, I wish to update this Honourable House about my visit to Santa Mo nica, California, last week to attend the very prestigious Montgomery Summit. Mr. Speaker, the Montgomery Summit is now in its 15th year as a leading innovation conference, which …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Minister. Would you like to do your second Statement now? Hon. Wayn e Caines: With your permission, sir.

The Speaker The Speaker Continue right along. Hon. Wayne Caines: Thank you, sir. 100 JOBS Hon. Wayne Caines: Mr. Speaker, I would like to update this noble House on a collaborative effort between the Ministry of National Secur ity and the D epartment of Workforce Development to provide jobs for Bermudians. Mr. Speaker, a …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Minister. The remaining two Statements ar e from the Minister of Education. Minister, would you like to take the floor? Hon. Diallo V. S. Rabain: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker The Speaker Go ahead, Minister. CAMBRIDGE REPRESENTATIVES’ VISITS TO PUBLIC SCHOOLS Hon. Diallo V. S. Rabain: Mr. Speaker, I rise this morning to share with my honourable colleagues and the listening public the work that was undertaken when two specialists from Cambridge International visited our public schools during the week of March …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Minister. No further Ministerial Statements? Hon. Diallo V. S. Rabain: I have one more, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker The Speaker Oh, I am sorry. I thought that was your last one. Yes, you do have one more. Go ahead, Mi nister. SCHOLARSHIPS AND AWARDS FOR A DIVERS E BERMUDA Hon. Diallo V. S. Rabain: Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to provide this Honourable House with an update on the Education …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Minister. Now we have completed all of the Ministerial Statements this morning. REPORTS OF COMMITTEES

The Speaker The Speaker I recognise the Deputy Speaker. Deputy Speaker, you have the floor. HOUSE AND GROUNDS COMMITTEE UPDATE Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker and Members of this Honourable House, I r ise to report that the House and Grounds Committee met on seven occasions since the …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Deputy Speaker. No further reports. QUESTION PERIOD

The Speaker The Speaker There are no written questions today. So we will move to the Statements. Ministers, there are five Members who have indicated that they would like to ask questions regar ding the Statements that were given this morning. The first is to the Premier. Premier, you have a question from the …

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons Good morning, Mr. Speaker, and thank you.

The Speaker The Speaker Good morning. QUESTION 1: UPDATE ON PROGRESS OF INITIAL COIN OFFERING REGULATIONS (ICOS)

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons Mr. Speaker, a question for the Honourable Member on his update on the pr ogress of initial coin offering regulations. Can the Honourable Member say whether, in the legislative framework that is being proposed, there is any requirement for the fiscal presence of those companies conducting ICOs?

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Member. Premier. Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as indicated in the Statement, the draft Bill will go out for consultation with the public, shortly. And all Members, including the Opposition, will be allowed to comment.

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. Supplementary or new question?

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons New question, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker The Speaker New question? Go ahead. QUESTION 2: UPDATE ON PROGRESS OF INITIAL COIN OFFERING REGULATIONS (ICOS)

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons Yes. Mr. Speaker, can the Honourable Member state whether the ICOs, initial coin offerings, will be regulated by the Bermuda Monetary Authority or by another regulator such as the Registrar of Companies, within Government?

The Speaker The Speaker Premier. Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the draft consultation document will shortly be circulated for all to see. At that point in time, we will welcome consultation back from me mbers of the public, including Members of the Oppos ition.

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Mr. Premier. Further question? Supplementary? No further questions; no supplementaries. We will now move on to the next Statement which a Member has a question of. And that would be for the Minister of Health. Minister of Health, you have a question in r egard to your first …

Ms. Susan E. Jackson Thank you. Good morning, Mr. Speaker, and good morning, Minister .

The Speaker The Speaker Good morning. QUESTION 1: HEALTH WORKFORCE PLANNING

Ms. Susan E. Jackson Yes, my first question on the health workforce planning, I am just curious to know whether, under the second bullet point about workers, adult workers, to allow those interested to transition into the health field . . . this is on page 7, point number 2, the last sentence. I …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Member. Minister. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you. Mr. Speaker, as the Statement indicated, the actual report does list in more detail some of the ar eas, human resource areas, for Bermuda t hat are needed. So one can avail themselves of that. And, as it relates to …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Minister. Any further questions or supplementary? We will take a supplementary from the Opposition Leader. Honourable Member, you have the floor. SUPPLEMENTARY Hon. Jeanne J. Atherden: Sorry, Mr. Speaker, just a supplementary. And I would like to think that this has progressed, is progressing. Could the Minister ind …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Member. Minister. [Pause]

The Speaker The Speaker Your comment was rather long. And we are trying to look for a precise question out of that for the Minister to respond to. Hon. Jeanne J. Atherden: Oh.

The Speaker The Speaker I will give you a suggestion. What I would suggest is that you put that in a short questio n so the Minister can respond to it. Hon. Jeanne J. Atherden: Very short question: Has the workforce planning group looked at areas which can be identified as places where people …

The Speaker The Speaker Okay. Minister. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I indicated in the Statement, part of the workforce plan has been to identify areas of need within the health workforce jurisdiction and remit wit hin Bermuda. And, obviously, that goes hand in hand. If there are gaps, that …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Minister. Any further questions, or a supplementary?

Ms. Susan E. Jackson I have a second question.

The Speaker The Speaker I think we have a supplementary. Let the supplementary go before your second question. Honourable Member from constituency 22, you have the floor. SUPPLEMENTARIES

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons Yes. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in terms of trying to find this balance between local practitioners and those brought in from overseas, will there be any efforts to, I would say, improve the due diligence being done by the Mi nistry or the Chief Me dical Officer on …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Member. Minister. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I thank that Honourable Member for that question. As I have indicated, the Office of the Chief Medical Officer, in conjunction with a number of other both private and governmental agencies, are working together hand in hand …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Minister. Any further supplementary?

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I think the Honourable Member took it in a direct way. I guess the question I had was, when I refer to problems in the past, I was referring to physicians who came in who were, I will say, less than qualified, and whom …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Member. Minister. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Yes, thank you, thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you for that question. The actual person, the Honourable Member who sits to my immediate right, and I have had di scussions —obviously, his being responsible for Imm igration and me with respect …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. Any further supplementary? Your second supplementary, Leader of the Opposition. SUPPLEMENTARY Hon. Jeanne J. Atherden: Yes, Mr. Speaker. If the Minister could advise us, as it relates to specialties and physicians from abroad, what type of review does the Minister . . . and you mentioned the Minister …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Member. Minister. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Like I said, we are in the processes of trying to develop some type of . . . I do not want to say MOU, because, obviously, we are co- Minis ters, but an engagement so that when …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Minister. New question?

Ms. Susan E. Jackson I have a new question.

The Speaker The Speaker Continue. QUESTION 2: HEALTH WORKFORCE PLANNING

Ms. Susan E. Jackson So, Mi nister, we can all acknowledge and recognise that there are a number of Bermudians who are qualified in the medical pr ofession, living overseas for a number of reasons, whether it is for experience, continued education, or what have you. But I am just wond ering, what is …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Member. Minister. Bermuda House of Assembly Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Yes. Actually, that question is a little bit outside of the sphere of this Ministerial Stat ement —way outside. But I will try to answer with the knowledge that I do have. The Bermuda Medical Doctors Association . …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Minister. Your third question or supplementary?

Ms. Susan E. Jackson It is a supplementary.

The Speaker The Speaker Supplementary. Go ahead. SUPPLEMENTARIES

Ms. Susan E. Jackson Yes, because I do not find this way outside the scope. There are also a number of people, not only qualified, but maybe training ou tside of Bermuda in the health care industry. And I just want to make sure that this workforce planning is i ncluding the people who …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Member. Minister. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Yes. Again, Mr. Speaker, as I said previously, there is outreach through the Berm uda Medical Council with all of the Bermudi an medical students and trainees, and that is ongoing. So, efforts are being made to locate these individuals. And this …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Minister. Any further questions? Supplementary?

Ms. Susan E. Jackson Yes, I have just one more supplementary.

The Speaker The Speaker Supplementary.

Ms. Susan E. Jackson Does that mean that anyone in the medical profession who reaches out, desiring to come home, can reach out to the Medical Practitio ners Council to find out more about how they may find placement here?

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. Speaker, the Bermuda Me dical Council is not an arm of the Government. Obv iously, the Government has our remit with respect to regulation and the like. There are over 28 professional bodies. And one would encourage all students who are studying overseas …

The Speaker The Speaker No further question for the Minister of Health on that particular Statement. Minister, you have questions on your next Statement in regard to the sugar tax. The first question is from the Member from constituency 20. Honourable Member Jackson, you have the floor. QUESTION 1: SUGAR TAX CONSULTATION RESULTS (INTERIM …

Ms. Susan E. Jackson Thank you, Mr. Speaker. With regard to the sugar tax consultation, of the 345 responses, what is the breakdown? How many of those were online versus paper submissions?

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. Minister. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Yes, Mr. Speaker. As my Statement indicated, of the 345 r esponses, this is an “interim ” report. The consultation period was eight weeks. We received 345 responses, many of whom provided detailed submissions. So I was just bringing this Statement to the …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Minister. Supplementary or further question? Suppl ementary or new question?

Ms. Susan E. Jackson This is a supplementary.

The Speaker The Speaker Supplementary. SUPPLEMENTARIES

Ms. Susan E. Jackson The Minister did not answer the question. I was just asking the number of submi ssions that were made online versus the number of paper submissions, which seems to me to be a very basic question to ask. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, I would anticipate …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Minister. Any further questions?

Ms. Susan E. Jackson I have a supplementary.

The Speaker The Speaker Second supplementary?

Ms. Susan E. Jackson Yes. I would like to ask the Minister if she may be able to provide the information around the online - versus -paper submissions before the full report.

The Speaker The Speaker Minister. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: I will provide a full report to this Honourable House when we next attend our session, as soon as possibl e, within the third session.

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Minister. New question?

Ms. Susan E. Jackson New question.

The Speaker The Speaker Go ahead, Member. QUESTION 2: SUGAR TAX CONSULTATION RESULTS (INTERIM REPORT)

Ms. Susan E. Jackson So, I am just looking, Mr. Speaker, down at the percentages of the responses for support for this sugar tax versus the opposition. And I am noticing that there are some gaps. In par-ticular, there are two relatively large gaps. One is the milk-based items. There is a 12 per …

The Speaker The Speaker Can you put it in a question to the Mi nister now?

Ms. Susan E. Jackson Yes, it is coming. So, I would like to know, of the 12 per cent and 15 per cent, respectively, that are in bet ween, could the Minister confirm that these percentages were undecided? What was the response of the 12 per cent and the 15 per cent?

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Member. Minister. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I believe —and I will stand by and provide that Honourable Member with more details, again, once I provide the full report. But I believe that, of the report there were 13 questions. And persons …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Minister. Any supplementaries? Or a new question? Okay. All right. Now, we move on to the next Statement t hat a Member has a question on. [Inaudible interjection]

The Speaker The Speaker I asked if anyone had further questions, you know, on that Statement. Okay, you did rise. The Honourable Member Simons, from constituency 8, would still like to put his question to y ou, Minister. Member Simons. Bermuda House of Assembly Mr. N. H. Cole Simons: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker The Speaker Yes. QUESTION 1: SUGAR TAX CONSULTATION RESULTS (INTERIM REPORT)

Mr. N. H. Cole Simons Mr. Speaker, as we all know, there are low -valued nutritional foods. And a lot of those low -valued nutritional foods, once digested, convert to sugar. My question to the Minister is, Has she considered broadening the net to cover other low - valued nutritional foods like French fries, potato …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Member. Minister. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am hoping that the Honourable Member took advantage of the consultation process and filed his online responses for consideration. At this point, Mr. Speaker, the detailed fin dings of the consultation pr ocess are being analysed. So …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Minister. Supplementary or further question?

Mr. N. H. Cole Simons Supplementary.

The Speaker The Speaker Continue. SUPPLEMENTARY

Mr. N. H. Cole Simons Is it not the Minister’s inte ntion to recommend a flat tax across the board for low - valued foods?

The Speaker The Speaker Minister. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. Speaker, I am not in a pos ition at this point to answer that directly. Again, the whole purpose of the consultation was to invite me mbers of the public to provide their input and their sub-missions on areas to be considered for the …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Minister. New question or supplementary?

Mr. N. H. Cole Simons New question.

The Speaker The Speaker Continue. QUESTION 2: SUGAR TAX CONSULTATION RESULTS (INTERIM REPORT)

Mr. N. H. Cole Simons It is my understanding, from previous Statements, that this new tax was to, basical-ly, help underwrite the cost of health care in Bermuda, especially because we are faced with various obesity challenges, di abetes, et cetera. My question to the Minister is, once these taxes are raised, will they go …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Member. Minister. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Spe aker, I think it is . . . I would have to yield to the Minister of Finance, who is not here. But it is my understanding that everything goes to the Consolidated Fund unless it …

Some Hon. Members Some Hon. Members Oh! Hon. Kim N. Wilson: But needless to say, Mr. Speaker — [Desk thumping, laughter , and general uproar ]

The Speaker The Speaker Members! Members! Members! [Gavel]

The Speaker The Speaker Let the Minister continue. Go ahead, Minister. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker The Speaker Go ahead, Minister. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. Speaker, what I — 1768 16 March 2018 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly [Laughter] Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. Speaker, what I have said in the public, as well as was documented in the Speech from the Throne in September …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Minister. Do you have a supplementary? Supplementary? SUPPLEMENTARY

Ms. Su san E. Jackson So, the information that we have been discussing which is going into this sugar tax consultation interim report, when will it be online? I have had a look, and it is not there.

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. Minister. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Yes, I believe, actually, that it was meant to be going live as soon as I finish my question time.

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. Any further supplementaries? Any further questions? No further questions. Minister, that brings the questions with regard to your Statement to an end. Now we move on to the next Ministerial Statement, and that is in the name of the Honourable Minister of Works of Engineering. Minister Burch, there …

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, on the second page of the Mini ster’s Statement, he says, and I quote, “I am granting approval for a Licence to Use Vehicles on Gover nment of Bermuda Property for a trial period of one year. The conditions of the licence are such …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Member. Minister.

Lt. Col. Hon. David A. Burch Mr. Speaker, yes.

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Minis ter. Supplementary or further question?

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons A further question, Mr. Speaker. I thank the Honourable Member for that. Let me go back. I would like a supplementary.

The Speaker The Speaker You would like a supplementary?

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gib bons Supplementary on the first one, yes.

The Speaker The Speaker Okay. Go ahead. SUPPLEMENTARY

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons Could the Honourable Member give us an indication of when that licence and its terms and conditions will be made publicly avail able, and how ? Thank you.

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Member. Minister.

Lt. Col. Hon. David A. Burch Mr. Speaker.

Lt. Col. Hon. David A. Burch I continue to ask m yself the question as to whether some of those people on the other side sat in Cabinet in the last Gover nment. Because the document that I have from the A ttorney General’s Chambers, I believe, was prepared before we came to Government. [Inaudible interjections]

Lt. Col. Hon. David A. Burch And so, I have a draft document in which the terms and conditions have not yet been agreed, finally, with the proposer. But as soon as they are, it will be made public.

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Minister. Supplementary or new question?

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker The Speaker Supplementary or new question?

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons No, it is going to be a new question.

The Speaker The Speaker New question. Bermuda House of Assembly QUESTION 2: ALL -TERRAIN VEHICLES (ATVs)

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons But I will just say that a lot of time has elapsed between the prior Cabinet and now. So, I think the question was certainly valid. The second question, Mr. Speaker, that I have is, will any Amendments to existing government legi slation be required to allow the use of …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Member. Minister.

Lt. Col. Hon. David A. Burch Mr. Speaker, no.

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Minister. Supplementary? No further questions? No further questions on any matters? That brings us to an end of the Question and A nswer period. We will now move on. CONGRATULATORY AND/OR OBITUARY SPEECHES

The Speaker The Speaker Does any Member wish to speak? I recognise the Deputy Opposition Leader. Honourable Member, you have the floor.

Ms. Leah K. Scott Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and good morning.

The Speaker The Speaker Good morning.

Ms. Leah K. Scott Mr. Speaker, this morning I would like to give congratulations to Shanell Vaughn—[associate] the Minister for National Security and the Minister for Social Development —for the “Peace Wit hin: Prison Y oga Pilot Programme, ” which I saw in the paper the other day. I am actually a yogi, and …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. Does any other Member wish to . . . We recognise the Honourable Member from constituency 2. Honourable Member Swan, you have the floor.

Mr. Hubert (Kim) E. Swan Yes, Mr. Speaker. I would just like to follow up on a condolence that I offered on our last sitting, for Ms. Barbara Smith, also many would consider Lema, as well. She was very much a fixture at Port Royal Esso Station and a very delightful person and colourful person. …

The Speaker The Speaker You made mention of this last week, right?

Mr. Hubert (Kim) E. Swan Yes. I was just providing you with the correc t name, for the record.

The Speaker The Speaker Okay. Continue on.

Mr. Hubert (Kim) E. Swan And also, just carry on just a wee bit within the time that you allow me, Mr. Speaker. And also, today is a special day for a very special lady in my life, Ms. Barbara Fait h Swan, as she celebrates her birthday today. She is my mother, from Granaway …

The Speaker The Speaker Are you finished, Member? Thank you. Have your seat. Would any other Member wish to speak? I recognise the . . . are you just putting on your jacket, or are you getting up to speak? [Inaudible interjection]

The Speaker The Speaker Oh. [Laughter]

The Speaker The Speaker I recognise the Minister of Education. Minister, you have the floor. Hon. Diallo V. S. Rabain: That was hil arious. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would certainly like to assoc iate the whole House with these comments. Mr. Speaker, I would like congratulations sent to the fam ily …

The Speaker The Speaker Yes. That would be fitting, to do the whole House, yes. Hon. Diallo V. S. Rabain: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. 1770 16 March 2018 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly An Hon. Member: Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker The Speaker Oh, I had looked t o this side this time.

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Okay. You can choose whomever you like.

The Speaker The Speaker I will let the Member to my left. Her bright colour caught my eye pretty quickly that time. Honourable Member from constituency 23, you have the floor.

Mrs. Pat ricia J. Gordon -Pamplin Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would ask that this Honourable House send congratulations to the organisers of the Hasty Pudding production that is on at the Earl Cameron Theatre this week. My Deputy Leader would like to be associated with the comments. Perhaps the whole House may wish …

The Speaker The Speaker Brought you a little humour, eh?

Mrs. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin Absolutely.

The Speaker The Speaker Good.

Mrs. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin But the one thing that you may be aware of, Mr. S peaker, is that the when Hasty Pudding put these productions on they use an all -male cast. And individuals are cast in var ious other roles. And I can say that the production last night was tremendously well …

The Speaker The Speaker It means you are going to make sure we get out early enough tonight, right?

Mrs. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin Well, Mr. Speaker, I am not the Go vernment. [Laughter]

The Speaker The Speaker All right.

Mrs. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin But, Mr. Speaker, the event was called Intermission Impossible. It was absolutely incredible. And I would certainly like to offer congratulations.

The Speaker The Speaker You did come in a little late. Members of the cast are in the Gallery this morning.

Mrs. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin No, I did hear, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker The Speaker Good.

Mrs. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin I was not late. I was present, just not in the Chamber.

The Speaker The Speaker All right. Well, just letting you know they are in the Gallery.

Mrs. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin Well, I am certai nly happy to see them here, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker The Speaker Yes. Okay.

Mrs. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin But I think, more importantly, we need to be able to avail ourselves of the talent that was on display last night. And I certainly appreciated it, and would like congratulations to be sent.

The Speaker The Speaker I am sure they welcome your remarks. Thank you.

Mrs. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin Thank yo u, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker The Speaker Would any other Member wish to speak? I recognise the Honourable Minister of N ational Security. Minister Burch, he jumped along b efore you that time. You moved a little slowly.

Lt. Col. Hon. David A. Burch But I gave you advance notice. [Laughter]

The Speaker The Speaker Minister Caines — [Laughter]

The Speaker The Speaker Minister Caines, you have the floor. Hon. Wayne Caines: Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the House to send congratulations to the men of A lpha Phi Alpha Fraternity, Inc orporated. Last week, it was . . . [Inaudible interjections ] Bermuda House of Assembly Hon. Wayne Caines: I …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Minister. Minister Burch. You now have the floor.

Lt. Col . Hon. David A. Burch Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would ask that congratulations be sent to the Bermuda Industrial Union, and partic ularly President Chris Furbert, who yesterday launched their fifth Quadrennial Delegates Conference, Mr. Speaker. And the Executive of the Union, but a former Member of this House, was the guest …

The Speaker The Speaker I think we all may surmise who that is. [Inaudible interjections and laughter ]

Lt. Col. Hon. David A. Burch It will come as no surprise to you. He had a prepared speech, but he spoke for about 20 minutes off the cuff , and then pulled his speech out of his pocket. The great size of the audit orium and the current President of the Union pulled the gavel …

Lt. Col. Hon . David A. Burch Mr. Speaker, I would ask that congratulations be sent to the Bermuda I ndustrial Union. This conference’s subtitle is The Struggle Continues: In Unity Lies Our Greatest Strength. And I think that this motto could be extended to the entire community, Mr. Speaker. And so, I would ask that congratulations …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Minister. I now recognise the Honourable Member from constituency number 20. The Honourable Member Jackson, you have the floor.

Ms. Susan E. Jackson Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to send condolences to the family of Crayton Greene. He was a well -known person who lived in Bermuda for a number of years. His two daughters, Lynn and Shelly, are suffering today. He will be buried this afternoon, or his ashes will …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Member. Does any other Member wish to speak? I would like to recognise the Honourable Member from constituency 4. Honourable Member Furbert, you have the fl oor. [Inaudible interjection]

Mrs. Tinee Furbert Yes, I am on the other side. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to send congratul ations to Miss Nikita Robinson, who puts on every year World Book Day throughout our school system. She celebrates her birthday, and she does this as a gift back to our …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Honourable Member. Minister. Minister Weeks. We now recognise you, Minister. You have the floor. Hon. Michael A. Weeks: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and good morning to you.

The Speaker The Speaker Good morning. Hon. Michael A. Weeks: I would like to start out my remarks by asking to be associated with the remarks by the Minister of Education for the acknowledgement of St. Baldrick’s Day down at the Harrington Sound Primary School. I would also like to be associated with the …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Minister. Does any other Member wi sh to speak? I recognise the Honourable Member from constituency 26. Honourable Member Tyrrell, you have the floor.

Mr. Neville S. Tyrrell Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and good morning.

The Speaker The Speaker Good morning.

Mr. Neville S. Tyrrell Good morning, colle agues, as well. Mr. Speaker, I rise to ask this House to send condolences to the family of the late Alan Leigh, a former schoolteacher and principal. Mr. Leigh was one of my constituents. And he seemed to have taken a lot of interest in my career …

Mr. Neville S. Tyrrell But if condolences could be sent, Mr. Speaker. Thank you very much.

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. Does any other Member . . . I recognise the Honourable Member from constituency 28. Honourable Member, you have the floor.

Mr. Dennis Lister III Good morning, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker The Speaker Good morning.

Mr. Dennis Lister III I would just like to pass congratulations on to the WindReach facility up in Warwick, which is my constituency of Wa rwick West. I had the privilege on Wednesday, along with the MP from constituency 4, of attending the renaming of one of their halls. It was renamed the Sandy …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. Does any other Member wish to speak? No other Member wishes to speak. ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE SPEAKER HOUSE VISITORS

The Speaker The Speaker Before we move on, I would just like to acknowledge that, in the Gallery, Senator Caesar is in the Gallery this morning. And earlier, we had former Member of Parliament P ettingill in the Gallery, as well. Welcome, Senator. Nice to have you here this morning. [Desk thumping]

The Speaker The Speaker Good. We now move on. MATTERS OF PRIVILEGE

The Speaker The Speaker There are none. PERSONAL EXPLANATIONS

The Speaker The Speaker I am going to seek the indulgence of the House. The matter that was to be dealt with under Personal Explanations, I would like to take it up after we come from lunch. NOTICE OF MOTIONS FOR THE ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE ON MAT TERS OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

The Speaker The Speaker There are none. INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

The Speaker The Speaker There are none. ORDERS OF THE DAY

The Speaker The Speaker Orders of the Day. The first Order of today is the Second Reading of the Customs Tariff Amendment Act 2018, in the name of the Minister of Finance. Minister/P remier, lead on. Hon. E. David Burt: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I can do that.

The Speaker The Speaker Go ahead. Hon. E. David Burt: Good morning, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, before I begin my remarks t oday, I would just like to note that there is an error in the printing of the Bill. And it is the Explanatory Mem orandum. The short title says “2017” on the …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you for the explanation. Continue on now. Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, Honourable Members are now requested to give consideration to the Bill entitled the Customs Tariff Act 2018. A nd I move that the Bill be now read for the second time.

The Speaker The Speaker Continue on. BILL SECOND READING CUSTOMS TARIFF AMENDMENT ACT 2018 Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Bill proceeds to amend the Customs Tariff Act 1970 (the principal Act) with measures that include lower import duty rates for healthy foods, household linens, footwear, and …

The Speaker The Speaker That is not for you; you can continue. Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you. I begin with those amendments that are d irected at lowering duty rates. These amendments affect the First Schedule to the principal Act. In this Bill, the Government has, as promised in the Budget Statement, reduced …

Some Hon. Members Some Hon. Members Oh. Oh.

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Shame on you! Hon. E. David Burt: Mr. Speaker, I now progress to the measures in the Bill that concern import duty r eliefs. The Bill repeals a number of Fi fth Schedule duty reliefs that relate to local manufacturing. A low, concessionary 5 per cent duty rate for goods …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. Hon. E. D avid Burt: Duty relief under CPC 4227 is currently restricted to lithium ion batteries only. This Bermuda House of Assembly measure is intended to support the use of more env ironmentally friendly means of transportation in Bermuda. Mr. Speaker, in the Budget Statement, the Government …

The Speaker The Speaker Good. Hon. E. David Burt: Mr. Speaker, the Bill proposes to reform CPC 4169, medical equipment and supplies, with proper end- use provision and to broaden its scope to include positive- airway pressure machines, diabetic supplies, renal dialysis equipment, approved food supplements, and parts and accessories of medical equipment. All …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Minister. Does any other Member wish to speak? I recognise the Honourable Leader of the O pposition. Honourable Member, you have the floor. Hon. Jeanne J. Atherden: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, first I want to say that I am mindful of the fact that, because we …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Honourable Member. Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak? No other Honourable Member. Minister, you have the floor. Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. And, Mr. Speaker, I note the comments of the Opposition Leader and Shadow Minister of Finance, Bermuda House of …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. Deputy. House in Committee at 12:23 pm [Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr., Chairman] COMMITTEE ON BILL CUSTOMS TARIFF AMENDMENT ACT 2018

The Chairman Chairman Honourable Members, we are now in Committee of the whole House for further consider ation of the Bill entitled the Customs Tariff Amendment Act 2018 . Minister, you have the floor. Minister and Premier. Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I would like to …

The Chairman Chairman Are there any objections to moving clauses 1, 2, and 3? There appear to be none. Continue, Premier. Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Clause 1 is self -explanatory. Clause 2 amends section 13(1)(b) of the pri ncipal Act by deleting words, so that customs duty …

The Chairman Chairman Any further speakers? [Pause]

The Chairman Chairman There appear to be none. Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I move that clauses 1, 2, and 3 be approved.

The Chairman Chairman Are there any objections to approving clauses 1, 2, and 3? There appear to be none. Approved. [Motion carried: Clauses 1 through 3 passed.] Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I would like to move clauses 4, 5, and 6.

The Chairman Chairman Are there any objections to moving clauses 4, 5, and 6? There appear to be none. Continue, Minister. Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, clause 4 amends the Fifth Schedule of the principal Act to repeal specified CPC codes which will be incorporated under CPC 4229 …

The Chairman Chairman Any further speakers? The Chair recognises the Honourable Member Grant Gibbons. Continue. 1778 16 March 2018 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons : Thank you, Mr. Chai rman. Mr. Chairman, I have some questions about clause 4, which are amendments to the Fifth Sche …

The Speaker The Speaker Mr. Premier, do you want to adjourn for lunch? Hon. E. David Burt: Mr. Chairman, I am guided. But would you like me to at least answer his question to see if we can report the Bill back to the House? B ecause I think we might be done. Oh, …

The Chairman Chairman The House will resume at two o’clock. Proceedings suspended at 12:32 pm Proceedings resumed at 2:03 pm [Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr., Chairman ] COMMITTEE ON BILL CUSTOMS TARIFF AMENDMENT ACT 201 8 [Continuation thereof ]

The Chairman Chairman Good afternoon, Members. We are back after lunch with the resumption of the Customs Tariff Amendment Act 2018. Premier, the Honourable David Burt, you have the floor. Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, there was a question that was asked by the Honourable Member …

The Chairman Chairman Any further speakers? The Chair recognises the Honourable Grant Gibbons.

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons Thank you, Mr. Chai rman, and I appreciate the answer. And I think that helps to clarify not only what utility BELCO may do, but what others may do in terms of the size of batteries that can be imported under this particular heading. The Honourable Member may also know …

The Chairman Chairman Are you finished?

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons Yes, I am. Thank you. Mr. Premier, you have the floor. Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I heard persons around me asking the Honourable Member if he has interests to declare. That much being said, at this current point in time there is no plan …

The Chairman Chairman Any further speakers? The Chair recognises the Honourable Grant Gibbons.

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons Thank you, Mr. Chai rman. I have another question with respect to . . . on page 3. It is the batteries for electric vehicles. And to make everybody happy I will declare that my family has an interest in autom otive. [Inaudible interjections and laughter ]

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons Well, we have an interest in a number of things, so . . . Mr. Chairman, the question I have there is . . . I am waiting for Mr. De Silva to get up and declare his interest. The question I have there is . . . and more …

The Chairman Chairman Honourable Premier, do you want to? Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, at this time there have not been any such requests to my knowledge. However, as the Honourable Member knows, it is not unco mmon to have Customs Tariff Amendment number 2, number 3 and …

The Chairman Chairman Any further speakers? There appear to be none . Do you want to continue, Mr. Premier? Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Before I move the clauses, just a note regar ding SpaceX and the European Space Agency, both can use CPC 5013 visiting technicians and …

The Chairman Chairman It has been moved that clauses 4, 5 and 6 be approved. Any objections? There appear to be none. Approved. [Motion carried: Clauses 4, 5 and 6 passed.] Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I move that the Schedules be approved. 1780 16 March 2018 Official …

The Chairman Chairman It has been moved that the preamble be approved. Are there any objections to that? There appear to be none. Approved. Hon. E. David Burt: All right, thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I move that the Bill be reported to the House as printed.

The Chairman Chairman It has been moved that the Bill be reported to the House as printed. Are there any objections to that motion? There appear to be none. The Bill will be r eported to the H ouse as printed. [Motion carried: The Customs Tariff Amendment Act 2018 was considered by a …

The Speaker The Speaker Good afternoon, Members. Are there any objections to the second reading of the Customs Tariff Amendment Act 2018 being reported to the House? There are no objections. So moved. We now move on to Order [No. 2] on the O rder Paper, which is the consideration of the Suppl ementary …

The Speaker The Speaker Continue, Minister. Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker . Mr. Speaker , and forgive me . . . I have done this before but I am a little bit lost. So I am doing it now before I go into Committee?

The Speaker The Speaker Yes. Hon. E. David Burt: Yes.

The Speaker The Speaker We can actually take this right through to Committee of Supply. Hon. E. David Burt: That is what I am saying. So do I now read the introduction and then go?

The Speaker The Speaker Read the introduction and then I will invite the Deputy Speaker to come to the Chair. Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker . Mr. Speaker , this Schedule identifies two items totalling $4,302,839 to be included in Suppl ementary Estimate (No. 2) for 2016/17, made up …

The Speaker The Speaker Move us into Committee. Hon. E. David Burt: Okay. I move that the House resolve itself into Committee of Supply f or further consideration of the supplementary estimates.

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. Deputy? [Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr., Chairman ] COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATE (NO. 2) FOR THE FINANCIAL YEAR 2016/17

The Chairman Chairman Honourable Member s, we are now in Committee of Supply for further consideration of the Supplementary Estimate (No. 2) for financial year 2016/17. Premier, you have the floor. [Inaudible interjection]

The Chairman Chairman I am sorry. The Minister for Works and Engineering, the Honourable Lt. Col. Burch.

Lt. Col. Hon. David A. Burch Thank you, Mr. Chai rman. The requirement for supplementary estimates, more often than not, indicates unforeseen challenges a Ministry or department of government has to meet in any given year. The Minis try of Public Works has one depar tment, the Ministry Headquarters, which is included in Supplementary Estimate (No. …

The Chairman Chairman Any objections . . . any further speakers? Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons: Thank you, Mr. Chai rman. Mr. Chairman, I wonder if the Honourable Minister could give a little bit more detail on this particular legal case. We are a little lighter than normal on the benches here and …

The Chairman Chairman Any further speakers? Minister, do you want to reply?

Lt. Col. Hon. David A. Burch Mr. Chairman, you noted the date of this, right, Mr. Chairman?

Lt. Col. Hon. David A. Burch I am continually asking myself . . . anyway, maybe I should seek the help of the Minister of Health in terms of these . . . medical remedy for amnesia. This is as a result of a ruling during the time of the former Government, Mr. Chairman, in relation …

The Chairman Chairman Any further speakers? The Chair recognises the Honourable Pat Gordon- Pamplin.

Mrs. Patricia J. Gor don-Pamplin Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I thank the Minister for clarif ying that this was in respect of a claim that was made by a police officer and it wound its way through the courts. That claim was initiated well before the OBA administrat ion, just to put that …

The Chairman Chairman Any further speakers? Minister, do you want to reply?

Lt. Col. Hon. David A. Burch Mr. Chairman, I guess what I can say is that is another matter that came before the previous Cabinet which that former Minister does not know anything about. The fact of the matter is, Mr. Chairman, that the mould situation probably precluded any PLP Go vernment too. And the remedial …

The Chairman Chairman Any further speakers? The Chair recognises the Honourable Pat Gordon- Pamplin.

Mrs. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin Yes. I think the Honourable Member may be mistaken in terms of the former police building that was no longer occupied. This situation, as I recall, was in Somerset. It was not in the Hamilton Police Station building. This situation and the mould and stuff that was relat ing to …

The Chairman Chairman Any further speakers? Minister? Lt. Col. Hon. David A. Burch: Mr. Chairman, so the question was for what purpose? Anyway, Mr. C hairman, I move that the Su pplementary be approved.

The Chairman Chairman Head . . . supplementary 36 . . . Head 36 . . . [item] 1, Head 36 . . . any objections to that head being approved? No objections. Approved. [Motion carried: Head 36, Ministry of Public Works , passed.]

The Chairman Chairman [Item] 2, Tourism and Transport Headquarters. I guess it is you . . . well, it is Head 65— The Deputy Clerk: Corporation of St. George’s grant.

The Chairman Chairman Corporation of St. George’s grant. Hon. Walton Brown: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that Head 65 be approved. It is a very minor adjustment based on an error in the original budget, and we are seeking approval for the $72,000.

The Chairman Chairman Any objection to Head 65 being a pproved? The Honourable Member Pat GordonPamplin.

Mrs. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the Honourable Member indicated that there was an error. An error in what? The Honourable Member said that there was an error, the amount is not particularly significant, but he said an error. An error in what? I would like it to be a …

The Chairman Chairman Minister? Hon. Walton Brown: I would be happy to, Mr. Chai rman. The Honourable Member unfortunately was not here when the substantive Minister provided the explanation. There was a typographical error in the budget under the previous Government, and all we are doing is making the appropriate amendment and correction.

The Chairman Chairman Any further speakers? Any objection to Head 65 being approved? There appear t o be none. Approved. [Motion carried: Head 65, Ministry of Tourism and Transport Headquarters , passed.] Bermuda House of Assembly The Chairman: Mr. Premier? Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I …

The Chairman Chairman Are there any objections to the Supplementary Estimate (No. 2) [for 2016/17] being a pproved? There appear to be none. Approved. The Bill —the Supplementary —will be reported to the House. [Gavel] [Motion carried: Supplementary Estimate (No. 2) for the financial year 2016/17 was considered by a Co mmittee of …

The Speaker The Speaker Good afternoon, Members. Is there any objection to the consideration of Supplementary Estimate (No. 2) for financial year 2016/17 being reported to the House? No objections. So moved. We now move onto [Order] No. 3 on the Order Paper, which is the consideration of the Supplementary Estimate (No. 2) for …

The Speaker The Speaker Yes. Hon. E. David Burt: Mr. Speaker , the Schedule ide ntifies four items totalling $2,557,746 to be included in Supplementary Estimate (No. 2) for 2017/18, made up of $1,657,746 on current account and $900,000 on capital accounts. Honourable Member s will note, in respect of the total $2.5 million …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Mr. Premier. Would you like to move us into Committee? Hon. E. David Burt: Absolutely, Mr. Speaker . At this point in time I move that the House do resolve itself into Committee of Supply to further con1784 16 March 2018 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. Mr. Deputy? House in Committee at 2:28 pm [Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr., Chairman ] COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATE (NO. 2) FOR THE FINANCIAL YEAR 2016/17

The Chairman Chairman Honourable Member s, we are now in Committee of Supply for further consideration of the Supplementary Estimate (No. 2) for financial year 2017/18. Minister, you have the floor. Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I move [ item] 1, which is current account payment …

The Chairman Chairman Any objections to that Head 48? There appear to be no objections. Carry on then, sir. Hon. Walter H. Roban: Recognise me.

The Chairman Chairman All right. Go ahead. Hon. Walter H. Roban: May I continue, Mr. Chai rman, on behalf of this particular —

The Chairman Chairman Continue, Minister. Hon. Walter H. Roban: Mr. Chairman, the original estimate for the Ministry —this had to do wit h Head 48 Ministry Headquarters. Mr. Chairman, the original estimate for the Ministry Headquarters 2017/18 was $39,467,000. This amount was increased in September of 2017 by Supplementary Estimate (No. 1) in …

The Chairman Chairman One second, Minister. Where are you at because the He ad 48 is $657,746? Hon. Walter H. Roban: I was giving a background to the original budget — The Chairman: Continue. Hon. Walter H. Roban: —and I will go on to the sp ecifics.

The Chairman Chairman Well, if you can refer to that first so everybody can follow you. Hon. Walter H. Roban: My humble apologies. I was referring to the original estimate for the budget for that year under Head 48.

The Chairman Chairman Okay. Hon. Walter H. Roban: I will continue, if I may?

The Chairman Chairman Yes, you may. Hon. Walter H. Roban: Thank you. As a reminder, the bulk Supplementary (No. 1) was required to recognise current account expenditures related to the following organisations: the World Triathlon Series; the Bermuda Casino Gaming Commission; Bermuda Sail Training Association; Tall Ships; the JetBlue cooperative marketing agreement; and …

The Chairman Chairman No, we will call you later. Hon. Walter H. Roban: Okay, thank you. Well, with that I will take my seat, Mr. Chai rman.

The Chairman Chairman Thank you, Minister. Any fur ther speakers? There appear to be none. Continue, Minister. Bermuda House of Assembly Hon. E. David Burt: Apologies, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I move that item 1 be approved.

The Chairman Chairman Any objections to Head 48, item 1, being approved? There appear to be none. Approve d. [Motion carried: Head 48, Ministry of Tourism, Development and Transport Headquarters , passed.] Hon. E. David Burt: Mr. Chairman, the next item for debate is item 2, which is for the Ministry of Educ …

The Chairman Chairman The Chair recognises the Junior Mi nister, the Honourable Mr. Wayne Furbert. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, we are talking about Head 17 for a million dollars. Mr. Chairman, you are quite aware that education is very important for our kids, for their future, and …

The Chairman Chairman Mm-hmm. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: However, this current Government emphatically endeavours to put the education of our children first and foremost. Mr. Chairman, for the 2017/18 fiscal year the Department of Education was allocated an original budget estimate of $109,096,000. For the provision of public school education this funding included …

The Chairman Chairman Any further speakers? The Chair recognises the Honourable Cole Simons from constituency 8.

Mr. N. H. Cole Simons Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, in preparation for this debate I did some research of my own. And we heard a lot said about [how] the Berkeley grant was underfunded for expenses.

The Chairman Chairman Mm-hmm.

Mr. N. H. Cole Simons So, Mr. Chairman, in prep aration for that, I did two things. N umber one, I called up the Headmaster at Warwick Academy and BHS and asked them how much their current fees were per student. [Inaudible interjection]

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member You cannot make that comparison.

Mr. N. H. Cole Simons Mr. Chairman— [Inaudible interjection] 1786 16 March 2018 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly Mr. N. H. Cole Simons: —Mr. Chairman, I am talking about senior schools and I am comparing senior school fees with senior school fees. [Inaudible interjections ]

Mr. N. H. Cole Simons Mr. Chairman, can you help me with the noise? I cannot hear my voice. [Inaudible interjections ]

The Chairman Chairman I can hear you. [Inaudible interjections ]

Mr. N. H. Cole Simons Mr. Chairman, Warwick Academy currently charges $19,444 for senior school students. BHS currently charges $21,555 for a senior secondar y school student. Mr. Chairman, in 2015 each Berkeley student was allotted approximately $20,276. In 2016 it was $19,878. In 2017, with the supplement, it was $20,789. Mr. Chairman, as I …

The Chairman Chairman What is your point of order, Honour able Member Zane De Silva? POINT OF ORDER [Misleading] Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Well, I think the Honour able Member is misleading the House because if he is going to give comparative numbers to Warwick Academy and other private schools, he …

The Chairman Chairman Member, continue.

Mr. N. H. Cole Simons Thank you, I will be happy to continue. What we are comparing is Output Measures. We are comparing performance at the end of the day. Who is — [Inaudible interjections ]

The Chairman Chairman One second, one second. [Gavel]

The Chairman Chairman What we need to be comparing is this particular budget and the reason for the increase. That is where we have to be.

Mr. N. H. Cole Simons Yes. I was just speaking to the variances, Mr. Chairman.

The Chairman Chairman Mm-hmm.

Mr. N. H. Cole Simons And the other concern that I have, yes, we are spending $1 million for 2017 and I understand that. But I also know there is an issue in regard to transparency. We are investing this money into the Berkeley Institute and I believe that we should have more say in …

Mr. N. H. Cole Simons Right now, Mr. Chairman, I know that there is not much influence in regard to the contributions made by th e team of the Ministry in the governance of the Berkeley Institute. The school is governed by its Board of Governors — Hon. Wayne Caines: Point of order.

The Chairman Chairman Honourable Member Wayne Caines, what is your point of order? POINT OF ORDER Hon. Wayn e Caines: Mr. Chairman, Berkeley pr ovides yearly reports, which include financials, which includes the breakdown that the Member speaks of, and clearly audited financial statements, Mr. Chai rman.

The Chairman Chairman Member?

Mr. N. H. Cole Simons I accept that , Mr. Chairman. I accept his comments, but I am talking about oversight and governance on a day -to-day basis, given the amount that we invest in this school. Bermuda House of Assembly The other issue that I would like to question is . . . yes, …

The Chairman Chairman Mm-hmm.

Mr. N. H. Cole Simons And we provide money . . . what are they doing in regard to their own fund rai sing? What are they doing with the revenues received from the old Berkeley Institute building, which I know is rented out? Do we have any idea what type of rent is collected …

The Chairman Chairman Mm-hmm.

Mr. N. H. Cole Simons But I also want more say in oversight, Mr. Chairman, and more active oversight because we provide 95 per cent, almost, of the oper-ating expenses for the Berkeley Institute and we, at this point in time, have very little oversight. And like I also said . . . I think …

The Chairman Chairman Honourable Member , you are —

Mr. N. H. Cole Simons —most of —

The Chairman Chairman —Member! You are going into a ge neral debate. We are not going there. Let us stick to the reasons against the $1 million grant.

Mr. N. H. Cole Simons So, okay, then, I take your guidance, Mr. Chairman.

The Chairman Chairman Please.

Mr. N. H. Cole Simons So, my question then becomes, can the Minister tell us how the $1 million will be spent [and] give us a breakdown as to why they need an additional million dollars? My proposition is if we had more ins ight and oversight on the Board on an ongoing basis, we …

The Chairman Chairman Yes. Hon. E. David Burt: It is absolutely remarkable that the former Minister of Education will get up and tell us what we should be doing when he did not do that when he was the former Minister for Education. [Desk thumping] Hon. E. David Burt: Let us ma ke …

The Chairman Chairman Any further speakers? There appear to be none. 1788 16 March 2018 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly Minister, do you want to move this head? Hon. E. David Burt: Mr. Chai rman, I move that item 2 be approved.

The Chairman Chairman It has been moved that item number 2, Head 17, be approved. Any objection to that? There appear to be none. Approved. [Motion carried: Head 17, Ministry of Education, passed.] Hon. E. David Burt: Mr. Chairman, I will ask that item number 3 be approved. It is in the name …

The Chairman Chairman You have the floor Deputy Premier, Walter Roban. Hon. Walter H. Roban: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, with respect to supplementary [item] number [3], the Ministry Headquarters is seeking approval for a supplementary related to the Mini stry Headquarters capital account for capital develo pment b y the Department …

The Chairman Chairman Thank you, Minister. Any further s peakers? The Chair recognises the Honourable Grant Gibbons.

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons Thank you, Mr. Chai rman. Mr. Chairman, this particular amount, and I guess one of the first questions I have is, has the money actually been spent at this point? This was part of the request for proposal that was done to put a util ity-scale solar facility on the …

The Chairman Chairman Any further speakers? Minister? Hon. Walter H. Roban: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Honourable Member for [constituency] 22 has actually answered his own question. Since it was not known when it would be required, the money could only be requested once we were clear that we needed it. This money …

The Chairman Chairman Thank you. Any further speakers? The Honour able Member Grant Gibbons, you have the floor.

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons Thank you . Without appearing to be overly persistent here, could the Minister say whether the work —the actual work —has been done at this point? Has the money been spent to do the clean -up which is being billed here? Thank you.

The Chairman Chairman Minister, do you want to be a little more clear? Hon. Walter H. Roban: The work has not been star ted yet because it is only very recently we were aware that we were required . . . that the pr ocess that is a part of the ultimate end …

The Chairman Chairman Honourable Member ?

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons So, the obvious question, Mr. Chairman , is why is the money not in the 2018/19 budget?

The Chairman Chairman Minister, do you want to reply to that? Bermuda House of Assembly Hon. Walter H. Roban: All I can say is that the work has started, but it has just started . . . just recently. That is all I can tell the Honoura ble Member. Perhaps he can go …

The Chairman Chairman Thank you. Any further speakers? There appear to be none. Minister, do you want to continue? Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Cha irman , I move that item 3 be approved.

The Chairman Chairman It has been moved that item number 3, Head [48] be approved. Are there any objections? There appear to be none. Approved. [Motion carried: Head 48, Ministry of Transport and Regulatory Affairs, pass ed.] Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I ask that I …

The Chairman Chairman Mm-hmm. Hon. E. David Burt: And this is a capital account item for the Ministry of Finance Headquarters. The Chai rman: Continue. Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, Honourable Member s will r ecall that on November 17, 2017, I made a Ministerial Statement …

The Chairman Chairman Any further speakers? There appear to be none. Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I move that item num ber 4 be approved.

The Chairman Chairman It has been moved that item number 4, Head 65, be approved. Are there any objections to that? There appear to be none. Agreed to. [Motion carried: Head 65, Ministry of Finance Headquarters , passed.] Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 1790 16 March 2018 Official …

The Chairman Chairman It has been moved that the Suppl ementary Estimate (No. 2) [for fi nancial year 2017/18] be approved and be reported to the House. Any objections to that? There appear to be none. Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [Motion carried: Supplementary Estimate (No. 2) for the financial …

The Speaker The Speaker Good afternoon, Members. Are there any objections to the consideration of Supplementary Estimate (No. 2) for the financial year 2017/18 being reported? No objections. Then it is reported and so moved. We now move on to the next item on the O rder Paper, which is Order No. 4, the …

The Speaker The Speaker Continue. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Mr. Speaker , the Bill now before the House is the Payroll Tax Amendment Act 2018. The purpose of the Bill is to make a number of reforms to the Payroll Tax Act 1995 (the principal Act) and the Payroll Tax Rates Act 1995. As …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Junior Minister. Does any Member wish to speak to this? I recognise the Opposition Leader. Honour able Member , you have the floor. Hon. Jeanne J. Atherden: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . Mr. Speaker , we obviously knew that these amendments were coming because the Minister indicated, not …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Honourable Member . Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak? I recognise the Honourable Member from constituency 4. Honourable Member Furbert, you have the floor.

Mrs. Tinee F urbert Thank you, Mr. Speaker . I would like to take the opportunity, Mr. Speaker , to speak to something that is very exciting to me and that is the tax concession for persons with disabilities. When this was announced in the Budget debate there were a number of people who …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Honourable Member . Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak? I recognise the Honourable Member Commi ssiong. Honourable Member Commissiong, you have the floor.

Mr. Rolfe Commissiong Thank you, Mr. Speaker . Mr. Speaker , certainly we are happy about the fact that we continue to see the drive for a more pr ogressive system of taxation beginning to take root in Bermuda. It is long overdue. In a previous debate, at t he risk of too …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Honourable Member . Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak? No other . . . Premier, we can turn it back to you. Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker . I did not move the motion; the Junior Minister is doing this Bill, …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Mr. Premier. Any other Member? I recognise the Honoura ble Member from constituency 23. Honourable Member GordonPamplin, you have the floor.

Mrs. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin Thank you, Mr. Speaker . Mr. Speaker , I just wish to speak to one of the issues that arises in this Payroll Tax Amendment Act, and that is with respect to entrepreneurs which the Junior Minister alluded to in his presentation. I think that what is important . . …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Honourable Member . Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak? No other Honourable Member ? Junior Minister , do you want to close— Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Yes, thank you—

The Speaker The Speaker —that and move us to Committee? Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . Let me first of all just say thanks to everyone for their comments. As the Premier said, this is really significant going forward. I think one of the reasons why so many people escape is …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. Deputy, would you like to take the Chair? House in Committee at 3:31 pm [Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr., Chairman ] COMMITTEE ON BILL PAYROLL TA X AMENDMENT ACT 2018

The Chairman Chairman Honourable Member s, we are now in Committee of the whole House for further consider ation of the Bill entitled Payroll Tax Amendment Act 2018 . Minister, you have the floor. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move clauses 1 through 22.

The Chairman Chairman Any objections to moving clauses 1 through 22? There appear to be none. Continue. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Mr. Chairman, this Bill seeks to amend, as we said before, the Payroll Tax Act 1995 (“the principal A ct”) and the Payroll Tax Rates Act 1995 (“the Rates Act”), to increase …

The Chairman Chairman Thank you, Honourable Member . Any further speakers? The Chair recognises the Honourable Grant Gibbons. You have t he floor, Mr. Gibbons.

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons Thank you, Mr. Chai rman. Clause 2, I believe it is, yes, clause 2. I am on page 3, right in the middle of the page on the definition of “profit -sharing scheme.” And let me say that I think this issue of notional deemed remuneration has been something which …

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons Okay. If you could clarify that, okay? Let us take another example. The Honourable Member says no. But I would like to, I think for the Bermuda House of Assembly record, we would like to hear it verbally. Let us take another example— [Laughter ]

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons Well— [Inaudible interjection]

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons Oh, yeah. Let us take another example. Y ou have got a small business, let us say it is a bakery, you have got a husband and wife who run it, they have got some employees and they pay each other what would be considered to be a reasonable salary …

The Chairman Chairman Any further speakers? Honourable Member Furbert, you have the floor. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: The first one —BELCO —no, becaus e the employee is not controlling the business. The second one, yes, because the individual is controlling . . . it would seem to be the actual person that owns …

The Chairman Chairman Any further speakers? The Chair recognises the Honourabl e Member Grant Gibbons.

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons Thank you, Mr. Chai rman. The answer to the first question was interes ting because there is nothing in here which relates to control. So I think this is obviously going to be a policy approach, if I may ask that question. So, in other words, if the employee has …

The Chairman Chairman Any further speakers? Junior Minister Furbert. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Yes, thank you, Mr. Chai rman. I understand what the Honourable Member is saying. Introducing this we had long discussions wit hin the Mi nistry with a whole slew of advisors and la wyers and everything else. There will be …

The Chairman Chairman Any further speakers? There appear to be none. Junior Minister, do you want to continue? Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Yes, thank you. And once the guidelines come out I am sure the Ministry and the Department of OTC will be having many meetings, Mr. Chairman—well, I will not say many …

The Chairman Chairman Okay. It has been moved that clauses 1 through 22 be approved. Are there any objections? There appear to be none. Approved. [Motion carried: Clauses 1 through 22 passed.]

The Chairman Chairman Continue. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: I move that the preamble be approved.

The Chairman Chairman It has been moved that the preamble be approved. Any objections to that? There appear to be none. Approved. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: I move that the Bill be r eported to the House as printed.

The Chairman Chairman It has been moved that the Bill be reported to the House as printed. 1798 16 March 2018 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly Are there any objections? Approved. [Motion carried: The Payroll Tax Amendment Act 2018 was considered by a Committee of the whole House and passed without …

The Speaker The Speaker Good afternoon, Members. Is there any objection to the reporting to the House of the Payroll Tax Amendment Act 2018? No objections? So moved. We now move on to the next item on the O rder Paper. And the next item is Order No. 5 and it is the second …

The Speaker The Speaker Okay, yes. BILL SECOND READING PARTNERSHIP, EXEMPTED PARTNERSHIPS AND LIMITED PARTNERSHIP (BENEFICIAL OWN ERSHIP) AMENDMENT ACT 2018 Hon. Jamahl S. Simmons: Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker , and good afternoon.

The Speaker The Speaker Good afternoon. Hon. Jamahl S. Simmons: And good afternoon colleagues. I move that the Bill entitled the Partnership, Exempted Partnerships and Limited Partnership (Beneficial Ownership) Amendment Act 2018 be now read for the second time.

The Speaker The Speaker Continue. Hon. Jamahl S. Simmons: Mr. Speaker , on 9 March 2018 the Partnership, Exempted Partnerships and Limited Partnership (Beneficial Own ership) Amendment Act 2018 was tabled in this Honourable House. I rise today to present this significant piece of legisl ation which will extend the establishment of Bermuda’s Beneficial …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Minister. 1800 16 March 2018 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak? We recognise the Honourable Member from constituency 22. Honourable Member Gibbons, you have the floor.

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons Thank you , Mr. Speaker . Mr. Speaker , I actually was not going to lead on this particular piece of legislation. My honourable colleague who is coming into the House now had i ntended to do so—the Honourable Member Leah Scott.

The Speaker The Speaker You are pitching.

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons Mr. Speaker , I am pitc hing in.

The Speaker The Speaker Good.

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons I am being transparent about it.

The Speaker The Speaker There you go. Okay.

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons Mr. Speaker , obviously, having been involved with changes to the Partnership Act, the Limited Partnerships Act, and Exempted Partnerships Act over a period of time I think we all recognised that these changes were going to be necessary t o be able to establish a Beneficial Ownership Register. And …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Honourable Member . I recognise the Honourable Member from constituency 30. Deputy Opposition Leader, you have the floor.

Ms. Leah K. Scott Thank you , Mr. Speaker . Thank you to the Minister for bringing this legislation forward. However, Mr. Speaker , I have to say that if I never hear the letters OECD or FATF again it would be far too soon. I continue to be frustrated with these types of …

The Speaker The Speaker Mm-hmm.

Ms. Leah K. Scott One of the things, again, just pic king up where my colleague talked about the 25 per cent ownership, what are you going to do when you have a partnership that has more than four people and you are not going to have anybody that is going to control more …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Honourable Member . Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak? No other Honourable Member at this time? Minister, you can wrap up and take us on into Committee. Hon. Jamahl S. Simmons: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . Just to answer some of the questions that have been …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Minister. Deputy? House in Committee at 4:01 pm [Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr., Chairman ] COMMITTEE ON BILL PARTNERSHIP, EXEMPTED PARTNERSHIPS AND LIMITED PARTNERSHIP (BENEFICIAL OWNE RSHIP) AMENDMENT ACT 2018

The Chairman Chairman Honourable Member s, we are now in Committee of the whole House for further consider ation of the Bill entitled Partnership, Exempted Partnerships and Limited Partnership (Beneficial Ownership) Amendment Act 2018. Minister, you have the floor. Hon. Jamahl S. Simmons: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I now move clauses 1 through …

The Chairman Chairman Before you start, can we get the copies of the amendments? Hon. Jamahl S. Simmons: Oh, forgive me, Mr. Chairman.

The Chairman Chairman Thank you, Minister. Hon. Jamahl S. Simmons: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move clauses 1 through 3.

The Chairman Chairman Any objection to moving clauses 1 through 3? There appear to be none. Continue, Minister. Hon. Jamahl S. Simmons: Mr. Chairman, clause 1 provides that this Bill shall be cited as the Partnership, Exempted Partnerships and Limited Partnership (Beneficial Ownership) Am endment Act 2018. Clauses 2 and 3 provide for …

The Chairman Chairman Thank you, Honourable Minister. Any further speakers? Bermuda House of Assembly The Chair recognises the Honourable Member Leah Scott from constituency 30.

Ms. Leah K. Scott Thank y ou, Mr. Chairman. I will start with section 4O “control by other means” —I am sorry, page 4 of the draft legislation.

The Chairman Chairman Page 4. Thank you.

Ms. Leah K. Scott Yes, about a quarter of the way down the page.

The Chairman Chairman Mm-hmm.

Ms. Leah K. S cott “‘Control by other means’ includes the right to appoint or remove a majority of the general partners of a partnership and the exercise of control over the partnership by any means other than by control by ownership of any interest.” As I said, a ge neral partner is not appointed …

The Chairman Chairman Thank you, Honourable Member . Any further speakers? The Chair recognises the Minister. You have the floor, Minister. Hon. Jamahl S. Simmons: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just in terms of the issue raised by the Shadow Minister, I think that many of the points she has made we can take …

The Chairman Chairman Thank you. Any further speakers? Minister, continue. Hon. Jamahl S. Simmons: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I now would like to move clauses 4 through 8.

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons Mr. Chairman, yes, I was going to say there are some amendments here for clause 3. Hon. Jamahl S. Simmons: Would you like to do the amendments?

The Chairman Chairman Yes. Hon. Jamahl S. Simmons: All right. Mr. Chairman, I would like to move the follo wing amendments to clause 3.

The Chairman Chairman Mm-hmm. AMENDMENT TO CLAUSE 3 Hon. Jamahl S. Simmons: That the Partnership, E xempted Partnerships and Limited P artnership (Benef icial Ownership) Amendment Bill 2018 be amended as follows: Insert after clause 3 . . . clause 3A is added as follows, 3A “The Partnership Act 1902 is amended by …

The Chairman Chairman Any further speakers? The Chair recognises the Honourable Member Leah Scott.

Ms. Leah K. Scott Thank you , Mr. Chairman. We have no objection to those amendments. They are reasonable and we are required to keep records, so I have no problem with them. Thank you.

The Chairman Chairman Continue. Hon. Jamahl S. Simmons: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that clauses 1 through 3 be approved as amended.

The Chairman Chairman It has been moved that clauses 1 through 3, as amended, be approved. Are there any objections? No objections. Continue, Minister. [Motion carried: Clauses 1 through 3, as amended, passed.] Hon. Jamahl S. Simmons: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that clauses 4 through 8 be now moved. [Inaudible interjection] …

The Chairman Chairman Is there an y objection to clause 4 b eing moved? No objections. Continue. Hon. Jamahl S. Simmons: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Clause 4 inserts section 13G into the E xempted Partnerships Act 1992. This amendment makes clear the application of sections 4M through 4ZE o f the Partnership Act …

The Chairman Chairman Mm-hmm. AMENDMENT TO CLAUSE 4 Hon. Jamahl S. Simmons: And I m ove that the following be amended to clause 4: Clause 4 is amended by renumbering the existing provisions of subsection (1) and adding after that subsection the following: “(2) The Exempted Partnerships Act 1992 is amended by inserting …

The Chairman Chairman Thank you. Any further speakers? The Chair recognises the Honourable Leah Scott.

Ms. Leah K. Scott Thank you , Mr. Chairman. Again, we ha ve no objection to these amendments. Thank you .

The Chairman Chairman Okay. Do you want to move it? Hon. Jamahl S. Simmons: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that clause 4 be moved as amended.

The Chairman Chairman Thank you. It has been moved that clause 4 be approved as amended. Any objections? There are no objections. Agreed to. [Motion carried: Clause 4, as amended, passed.] Hon. Jamahl S. Simmons: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I now move that clause 5 be moved.

The Chairman Chairman Continue. Hon. Jamahl S. Simmons: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Clause 5 inserts section 8AA into the Limited Partnership Act 1883. This amendment makes clear the application of sections 4M through 4ZE of the Partnership Act 1902, which set forth the requir ements with respect to beneficial owners hip for limited …

The Chairman Chairman Yes. AMENDMENT TO CLAUSE 5 Hon. Jamahl S. Simmons: Clause 5 is amended by renumbering the existing provision as subsec tion (1) and adding after that subsection the following: “(2) The Limited Partnership Act 1883 is amended by i nserting after section 9A the following — “Keeping of records of …

The Chairman Chairman Thank you, Honourable Minister. The Chair recognises the Honourable Member Leah Scott.

Ms. Leah K. Scott Thank you , Mr. Chairman. As with t he previous two amendments, we have no objection. Thank you.

The Chairman Chairman Thank you. Hon. Jamahl S. Simmons: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that clause 5 be moved as amended.

The Chairman Chairman It has been moved that clause 5 be approved as amended. Any objections? No objections. Agreed to. [Motion carried: Clause 5, as amended, passed.] Hon. Jamahl S. Simmons: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to move that clauses 6 through 8 now be moved.

The Chairman Chairman Continue. Hon. Jamahl S. Simmons: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Clause 6 provides for savings. This clause provides that a new register for the purposes of sections 4M to 4ZE is not required if a partnership, an exempted partnership or a limited partnership already has a register in which it keeps …

The Chairman Chairman Thank you, Honourable Member . Any further speakers? Continue, I am sorry.

Ms. Leah K. Scott That is okay. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just a question on section . . . on page 15, [clause] 6(2). So a partnership, if it already has a beneficial [ownership] register, they do not have to est ablish a new one. If they do not have one, then this le …

The Chairman Chairman Any further speakers? Minister? Hon. Jamahl S. Simmons: Thank you. I think that it is important for us to begin the process and continue the process of informing our companies in Bermuda of their responsibilities under this Act. I think that what we will do is push that and we …

The Chairman Chairman Any further speakers? Minister, carry on. Hon. Jamahl S. Simmons: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that clauses 6 through 8 now be approved.

The Chairman Chairman It has been moved that clauses 6 through 8 be approved. Are there any objections? There appear to be none. Agreed to. [Motion carried: Clauses 6 through 8 passed.] Hon. Jamahl S. Simmons: Okay. Mr. Chairman, I move that the Bill be reported to the House as amended . The …

The Chairman Chairman You have to move the preamble. Hon. Jamahl S. Simmons: Forgive me. I move that the preamble now be approved.

The Chairman Chairman It has been moved that the preamble be approved. Are there any objections? There appear to be none. Approved. Hon. Jamahl S. Simmons: I move that the Bill be reported to the House as amended.

The Chairman Chairman It has been moved that the Bill be reported to the House as amended. Any objections? 1808 16 March 2018 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly No objections. Agreed to. [Motion car ried: The Partnership, Exempted Partnerships and Limited Partnership (Beneficial Ownership) Amendment Act 2018 was considered by a …

The Speaker The Speaker Members, are there any objections to the Partnership, Exempted Partnerships and Limited Partnership (Beneficial Ownership) Amendment Act 2018 being reported to the House as amended? No objections. It has now been so moved.

The Speaker The Speaker Members, earlier in the day I had asked for the House’s indulgence when we were on an earlier matter, item (n) on our Order Paper, which is Personal Explanations. I had asked that we skip over that at that time and wait until a later part of the day for …

The Speaker The Speaker Continue. Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . Any suggestion that I somehow orchestrated my removal from the House is ridiculous. I intend to confront the allegations made against me head- on. Mr. Speaker , you and I have served honour ably in this House together for the …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. Thank you, Members of the House for your indulgence. We will now move on to [Order] No. 6 on the Order Paper, which is the second reading of the M unicipalities Amendment Ac t 2018 in the name of the Minister for Home Affairs. Honourable Minister Brown . …

The Speaker The Speaker Good. BILL SECOND READING MUNICIPALITIES AMENDMENT ACT 2018 Hon. Walton Brown: Thank y ou, Mr. Speaker .

The Speaker The Speaker Yes. Hon. Walton Brown: Mr. Speaker , I move that the Bill entitled the Municipalities Amendment Act 2018 be now read the second time.

The Speaker The Speaker Continue on. Hon. Walton Brown: Mr. Speaker , I rise to introduce a Bill ent itled the Municipalities — [Electronic device interruption]

The Speaker The Speaker Telephones should be turned off. Continue, Minister. Hon. Walton Brown: I rise to introduce the Bill ent itled the Municipalities Amendment Act 2018. This Bill seeks to amend the Mu nicipalities Act 1923 (hereafter called “the principal Act”) to provide: firstly, for the Mi nister to authorise public officers to …

The Speaker The Speaker I just made mention of telephones. I am going to have them confiscated if people keep continuing on in this manner. Have your phones turned off, please. Hon. Walton Brown: Mr. Speaker , it is clearly an e ffort to entertain while I giv e my presentation.

The Speaker The Speaker Minister, are you indicating that you might not be entertaining enough? [Inaudible interjections ] Hon. Walton Brown: Mr. Speaker —

The Speaker The Speaker One could say something different, but . . . I do not want to go that way. 1810 16 March 2018 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly Hon. Walton Brown: No, no, Mr. Speaker . I will defer always to your wisdom.

The Speaker The Speaker All right. Continue on. Hon. Walton Brown: This Bill proposes to defer ordinary municipal elections for a year until May 2019 while the Government undertakes consultation with the Corporations of Hamilton and St. George and the residents and ratepayers in each municipality, as well as consultation with the general public …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Minister. Does any other Member wish to speak to this? We recognise the Honourable Member from constituency 23. Honourable Member GordonPamplin, you have the floor.

Mrs. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin Thank you, Mr. Speaker . Mr. Speaker , I am going to start by saying thank you to the Minister for the explanation that he gave. But let me say that it could have been done an awful lot b etter. Mr. Speaker , you will be aware that on …

The Speaker The Speaker Mm-hmm.

Mrs. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin —in which there was a tweet by the President of the United States advising his Secretary of State that he was fired. It would have been so much better . . . because that behaviour was deemed to be boorish at best, it would have been so much better had …

Mrs. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin Sure.

The Speaker The Speaker Minister. POINT OF CLARIFICATION Hon. Walton Brown: Just for the edification of the Honourable Member, there has been a report issued outlining a significant . . . and it is in detail, about the expenditure of that $12 million that was sent overseas.

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Minister. Member.

Mrs. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin Thank you. And I appreciate the expenditure, you know, Mr. Speaker. I do not want the expenditure; I want the money back. That is really the operative. I understand, you know, you can tell me that you took $18 million, you spent it howeve r and wherever you did, in …

The Speaker The Speaker Yes. You want to read from Hansard?

Mrs. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin —the 10 th of July. I would like to make reference to it.

The Speaker The Speaker Okay.

Mrs. Patricia J. Gordon -Pam plin I do not think it is necessarily appropriate to re- read. But I will make reference to an excerpt.

The Speaker The Speaker Mm-hmm.

Mrs. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin On page 2680, from the Hansard of 10 th of July of 2015. The Minister, in his criticism of the fa ct that the former OBA admi nistration had “interfered” —and I will put that word in quotes because that was not the specific word that was [said] —that they …

The Speaker The Speaker You have a point of order? POINT OF ORDER [Misleading] Hon. Walton Brown: The Honourable Member is mi sleading the House. If the Honourable Member would actually read the legislation, she would see that there is no power grab over the assets or control of the Corporation. It is a …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you for that, Minister.

Mrs. Patricia J. Gord on-Pamplin I actually said that at the outset. I said that if the Minister had put the cart before the horse, instead of allowing the tail to wag the dog, Mr. Speaker, we would have found ourselves in a better -informed position in which speculation would have not been allowed to …

Mrs. Patricia J. Gordon -Pam plin And honourable, yes.

Mrs. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin —a consultative individual, that perhaps he could have done things a little differently. [I’m] not sure why the rush for the t abling of the Ministerial Statement under the circ umstances, but I do not believe it was appropriate at the time. Now the Minister , in his Statement and …

Mrs. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin So let me now go to the St . George’s marina. And before I hear co mments coming back on that particular statement, Mr. Speaker, I think it is important to qualify that bit. I am going to say that because I do hear some utterances. Let me say that …

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speak er, I think my honourable colleague, Pat Gordon- Pamplin has set out a number of issues and has raised a number of concerns about this particular amendment Bill. I think she has laid the groundwork here. I am going to focus on basically three …

The Speaker The Speaker Point of order? Bermuda House of Assembly POINT OF ORDER Hon. Walton Brown: I just want to—

The Speaker The Speaker Yes, Minister. Hon. Walton Brown: I just want to reiterate, Mr. Speaker. POINT OF ORDER Hon. Walton Brown: I don’t know if people just lack —

The Speaker The Speaker Ah, ah, ah. Hon. Walton Brown: —the capacity to understand. Consultation will take place over the next 12 months. I do not know if people fail to gather, but there will be an extensive consultation period. I do not know what more I need to say in that regard.

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Minister.

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It confirms what I am about to say. It is consultation on the Minister’s terms, not on the terms of the Corporation. If the Honourable Member is hoping to have a partnership going forward, and a consultation with a Corporation, then he is off to a …

The Speaker The Speaker Well, well . . . we wouldn’t go that far.

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons I think we all understand that, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker The Speaker We wouldn’t go that far. [Inaudible interjections]

The Speaker The Speaker We wouldn’t go that far.

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons It is really, from my perspective, in terms of suspending an election for a year, it is arrogance. They have the power to it —

The Speaker The Speaker Well—

Mr. Rolfe Commissiong Mr. Speaker, point of order. The Member’s misleading the House. Certai nly with a 21 seat majority, you were acting as if you were God, so I mean—

The Speaker The Speaker All right, Member.

Mr. Rolfe Commissiong —I think we have 24 seats —

The Speaker The Speaker Member, Member.

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons Thank you, Mr. Speaker, that is not a point of order.

Mr. Rolfe Commissiong Or 19 seat majori ty.

The Speaker The Speaker Member.

Mr. Rolfe Commissiong A one -seat majority. 1818 16 March 2018 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons: And clearly so, given what I would say, is a total lack of consultation to this point. Mr. Speaker, the last time, in my me mory, that an election was …

The Speaker The Speaker Members.

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons —have deferred elections.

The Speaker The Speaker Members!

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons Algeria. [Gavel]

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons Haiti.

The Speaker The Speaker It is getting noisy.

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons Lebanon— [Inaudible interjections] Hon. Walton Brown: Point of order.

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons Democratic Republic of the Congo and Uganda. Hon. Walton Brown: Point of order.

The Speaker The Speaker Have a seat, Member. Minister. POINT OF ORDER [Misleading] Hon. Walton Brown: That Member is deliberately misleading the House. He is conflating and confusing national elections with municipal elections. You are talking about a government that is seeking to retain power in certain countries versus a municipality which is a …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Minister. Member. Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons: Mr. Speaker, we are g oing to have to agree to disagree on that one. It is a democratic process. It is set out in legislation. It has been in place for hundreds of years, at this particular point. There are …

The Speaker The Speaker It is not the first time any Government has us ed the short period of seven days.

The Speaker The Speaker Any government. Any government.

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons Mr. Speaker, you are absolutely right. Okay. But generally it is only done when there is a real need to do somethi ng. Bermuda House of Assembly [Inaudible interjections]

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons Okay? And I am not sure—

The Speaker The Speaker Well, I can think of some legislation in the past that will question that, but go ahead.

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons Mr. Speaker, I . . . I—

The Speaker The Speaker I have been around here for a long time now, remember that.

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons You and I both have been around for a long time. Okay? But I think it is particular striking in view of what the Honourable Member said, and there is another provision i n the Hansard back from July of 2015. Mr. Speaker, you will remember that that was the …

The Speaker The Speaker Continue.

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons The Honourable Mini ster, the then Opposition Member, said at the time in talking about the Municipalities Amendment Act that my honourable colleague, the one sitting in front of me, Mr. Sylvan Richards, was putting through as the Junior Minister. And that Honourable Member at the time, that is Mr. …

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons I think this is broad enough— 1820 16 March 2018 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly The Speaker: Members, M embers. Members.

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons I think this is broad enough to do exactly what the Minister was so co ncerned about in 2015, which is to create a bit of a sham of democracy in terms of municipalities here. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Honourable Member. Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak? We recognise the Honourable Member Sylvan Richards. You have the floor. Mr. Sylvan D. Richards, Jr.: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, you know, politics is a funny thing. It always amazes me when I sit here sometimes …

The Speaker The Speaker Go ahead. Mr. Sylvan D. Richards, Jr.: —comments that were made by the Honourable Member Walton Brown, at that time.

The Speaker The Speaker Go ahead. Mr. Sylvan D. Richards, Jr.: I quote, 4“I thought why have it ” [the municipalities] “if their decisions are not their own, if their decisions all have to be approved by the Government? “So we have a formal structure with absolutely no power whatsoever. So the Government needs …

The Speaker The Speaker Honourable Minister. Mr. Sylvan D. Richards, Jr.: —how that Honourable Member can stand here and take the position that he is taking now. His own words convict him, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Honourable Member. Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak? We recognise the Honourable Member from constituency 1. The Honourable Member Ming, you now hav e the floor.

Mrs. Renee Ming Good afternoon, Mr. Speaker, and listening audience.

The Speaker The Speaker Good afternoon.

Mrs. Renee Ming Mr. Speaker, I thought it was probably timely that I weigh in and give my thoughts with regard to the Bill that is put in fr ont of us. Let me declare my interest fast and in a hurry. I was a c ommon councillor , I was an alderman, …

The Speaker The Speaker Mm-hmm.

Mrs. Renee Ming So I think that may mean that I have a little bit of knowledge about municipalities, well, St. George’s, anyhow. I did not live in Hamilton. So, Mr. Speaker, first of all, I am going to thank the Minister for bringing this Bill because having served on the Corporation of …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Member. Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak? I see three people jump and who is speaking? [Laughter]

The Speaker The Speaker Is a race on over there? [Laughter]

The Speaker The Speaker Member from constituency 26, it looks like you beat everybody. Eh?

Mr. Neville S. Tyrrell First time.

The Speaker The Speaker First time. All right. We recogni se the Honourable Member from constituency 26, Honourable Member Tyrrell. You have the floor.

Mr. Neville S. Tyrrell Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Good evening, everyone. Mr. Speaker —

Mr. Neville S. Tyrrell —I think there was a par agraph in the Minister’s brief last week Friday, that I think would sum this whole thing up. Permission, if you would allow me to read it?

The Speaker The Speaker Go ahead. Continue.

Mr. Neville S. Tyrrell Thank you. It says, “Mr. Speaker, this Bill proposes to defer el ections for a year until May 2019 while the Government undertakes consultations with the Corporations of Hamilton and St. George’s, with the residents and ratepayers in each municipality, and with the general public of Bermuda. ” Mr. Speaker, …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Honourable Member. Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak? We recognise your colleague next to you there, the Member from constituency 2, Honourable Member Swan. You have the floor.

Mr. Hubert (Kim) E. Swan Good evening, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker The Speaker Good evening. Bermuda House of Assembly Mr. Hubert (Kim) E. Swan: I declare my interest. I live within the municipality of the town of St. George’s, proudly. I just want to offer some comments on this particular Bill. I found it very interesting that the Members opposite, in their eff …

Mr. Hubert (Kim) E. Swan No, no. I am going to be very measured and qui et. We in St. George’s were once the capital. And there was a time when persons referred to us as a working town. I have been canvassing down there for quite some time, and I remember a gentleman whom …

The Deputy Speaker Deputy Speaker Thank you, Honourable Member. Any further speakers? The Chair recognises the Honourable Member, Rolfe Commissiong, from constituency 21. You have the floor, Member.

Mr. Rolfe Commissiong Mr. Deputy Speaker, thank you for ack nowledging me. Look. The bottom line is we have a corpor ation which is totally dysfunctional. It is representative of an archaic, dare I say, anachronistic form of government. I accepted with a grain of salt the evocations of the Member from constituency …

Ms. Susan E. Jackson Thank you, Deputy Speaker. I just want to take a few moments, since the Corporation of Hamilton, actually, and the City of Hamilton falls within my constituency. And I just want to speak a little to the environment there and making sure that we are able to maintain a healthy …

The Deputy Speaker Deputy Speaker Thank you, the Honourable Member. Any other Members? The Chair recognises the Premier, the Honourable David Burt. You have the floor. Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Deputy Speaker, I am not going to be long. What my point is today is clearly, of course, …

The Deputy Speaker Deputy Speaker Thank you, Honourable Premier. Any further speakers? The Chair recognises the Minister in charge. Hon. Walton Brown: Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. It has been an interesting debate. I want to thank my colleagues on this side of the House for their support of this initiative. It is bold, and …

The Speaker The Speaker Please do. Hon. Walton Brown: Yes. I have left it alone. [Inaudible interjection] Hon. Walton Brown: The other point. This idea here of going back into the H ansard and quoting me from two or three years ago, as if this is the gotcha moment. Put things in context. It …

The Speaker The Speaker Would you like to move us into Committee? 1828 16 March 2018 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly Hon. Walton Brown: I move that we do move into Committee, yes.

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Honourable Member. Honourable Minister, we will now move into Committee. I will call on the Deputy to come back to the Chair. House in Committee at 6:33 pm [Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr., Chairman] COMM ITTEE ON BILL MUNICIPALITIES AMENDMENT ACT 2018

The Chairman Chairman Honourable Members, we are now in Committee of the whole House for further consider ation of the Bill entitled the Municipalities Amendment Act 2018 . Minister, you have the floor. Hon. Walton Brown: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am going to move clauses 1 through 5.

The Chairman Chairman Are there any objections to m oving clauses 1 through 5? There appear to be none. Continue. Hon. Walton Brown: Mr. Chairman, this Bill amends the Municipalities Act 1923 (“the principal Act”) to pr ovide for the Minister to authorise public officers to attend meetings of the corporat ions, for …

The Chairman Chairman Thank you, Honourable Minister. Any further speakers at this time? The Chair recognises the Honourable Member Grant Gibbons. You have the floor.

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons Yes, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, under clause 4, which is amending section 7B, obviously I had expressed some concerns during the general debate. But under clause 4, section 7B(6), where the word “temporarily” is deleted both times, would the Minister please explain why it is necessary to delete …

The Chairman Chairman Any further speakers? The Chair recognises the Honourable Pat Gordon- Pamplin.

Mrs. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, my question is a very brief one. And that is, on page 2 of the Bill, under clause 4, which amends section 7B. I mentioned it actually in the full debate. And the question is, the Minister has here that he is deleting “public …

The Chairman Chairman Any further speakers? There appear to be none. Minister, you have the f loor. Hon. Walton Brown: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The language regarding “temporarily” and its removal is based on legal advice, to allow the Minister the flexibility to determine the duration of a period of stewardship regarding a …

The Chairman Chairman Any further speak ers? The Chair recognises the Honourable Grant Gibbons.

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons Yes, thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Minister got me part of the way where I was interested in going with the word “temporarily.” He said it was because of legal advice he r eceived. But, in essence, if you look at this in the full context of it and you …

The Chairman Chairman Any further speakers? The Chair recognises the Honourable Pat Gordon- Pamplin.

Mrs. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, just for clarify, with the Mini ster’s last response it does not necessarily tie with what the actual quotes from the judgment indicated. And the judgment indicated that the ultra vires action, among other things —the ultra vires action did not r elate to …

The Chairman Chairman Minister, do you want to respond? Hon. Walton Brown: Mr. Chairman, I do not understand why there is confusion. Public interest is a much different focus than the interests of Bermuda. Public interest could refer to the matter that had nothing to do with benef its. It could be a …

The Chairman Chairman Yes. Okay. Go ahead. Hon. Walton Brown: Oh, the “temporarily” part. Yes, I got it. I got it, yes. Again, it is language that was recommended by legal counsel. It could be seen as temporary, as well. But it is to show that it is more precise than being temporary …

The Chairman Chairman Any further speakers? 1830 16 March 2018 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly The Chair recognises the Honourable Pat Gordon- Pamplin.

Mrs. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin Sorry, Mr. Chai rman.

The Chairman Chairman That is okay.

Mrs. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin The disadvantage of being short, you know, people tower over you, bump into you—

The Chairman Chairman Well, my sight is failing . . . [Laughter]

Mrs. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, again, in clause 5, “an ordinary municipal election shall not be held in 2018.” So, this is still giving rise to the fact that an election of some sort will be able to be held if you d id not have an en bloc …

The Chairman Chairman Any further speakers? Minister, go ahead. Hon. Walton Br own: If everyone resigned tomorrow, then it would force an election. I do not understand what the issue is. If everyone resigned tomorrow, there would be an election. And the el ection term would be until 2019, because we are here …

The Chairman Chairman Any further speakers? The Chair recognises the Honourable Grant Gibbons.

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons Yes, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I know the Minister will think I am being persistent, but I am looking for a confirm ation here that, in essence, the amendments would allow the Minister to take stewardship of the waterfront for an indeterminate period of time. It could be …

The Chairman Chairman I thought he answered that, Member.

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons Well, I am looking for a confirmation in a very specific way, that the improv ement —

The Chairman Chairman Do you want it in writing?

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons That the improvement was completed to his satisfaction. Hon. Walton Brown: Mr. Chairman, that is precisely the wording in the legislation.

The Chairman Chairman Any further speakers? There appear to be none. Minister, do you want to move these? Hon. Walton Brown: Mr. Chairman, I move that clauses 1 through 5 be approved.

The Chairman Chairman It has been moved that clauses 1 through 5 be approved. Are there any objections? There appear to be none. Agreed to. [Motion carried: Clauses 1 through 5 passed.] Hon. Walton Brown: I move that the preamble be approved.

The Chairman Chairman It has been moved that the preamble be approved. Are there any objections? There appear to be none. Approved. Hon. Walton Brown: I move that the Bill be reported to the House as approved.

The Chairman Chairman It has been moved that the Bill be reported to the House as approved. Any objections to that? There appear to be none. [Motion carried: The Municipalities Amendment Act 2018 was considered by a Committee of the whole House and passed without amendment.] House resumed at 6:47 pm [Hon. Dennis …

The Speaker The Speaker Members, are there any objections to the Municipalities Amendment Act 2018 being repor ted to the House? Bermuda House of Assembly Some Hon. Members: Yes.

The Speaker The Speaker Members, did you hear what was asked?

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member No. [Laughter and inaudible interjections ]

The Speaker The Speaker Even though there was a lot of co mment in a different direction, I think the matter has been moved. And we will move on. [Laughter]

The Speaker The Speaker Members, the next item on the Order Paper is Order No. 7, the Second Reading of the Pr oceeds of Crime (Miscellaneous) Act 2018. And I believe the Minister of Health, the Honourable Minis ter Wilson, you have the floor. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, …

The Speaker The Speaker Continue. BILL SECOND READING PROCEEDS OF CRIME (MISCELLANEOUS) ACT 2018 Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to introduce to this Honourable House the Proceeds of Crime (Miscellaneous) Act 2018 (hereinafter, I will refer to it, Mr. Speaker, as the Bill) to address matters pertinent to Bermuda’s compliance …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Minister. Does any other Member wish to speak? I recognise the Honourable Member, the Deputy Opposition Leader. Honourable Member, you have the floor.

Ms. Leah K. Scott Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this continues the raft of legisl ation that is being imposed upon us in terms of benef icial ow nership and transparency. I am going to pr esent this in a story, because I do not think people acBermuda House of Assembly tually really …

The Speaker The Speaker Yes, you have to . . . You cannot go specific on the clauses at this point. You can do a general discussion around your viewpoint.

Ms. Leah K. Scott Right, but —

The Speaker The Speaker You s tarted off on a good field. You just took a little slip there, but you can step back on solid ground.

Ms. Leah K. Scott So, what I am saying is, is Mr. Smith, the trustee for Mr. and Mrs. Trott, going to know what an AML/ATF regulated entity is?

Ms. Leah K. Scott Are Mr. or Mrs. Trott and Mr. Smith going to know what an independent profession-al is? Are Mr. or Mrs. Trott, or Mr. Smith, going to know what ultimate effective control of a trust is? And I am raising this point, Mr. Speaker, b ecause I understand the need for …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Honourable Member. Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak? I recognise the Honourable Member, Mr. Cole Simons. Honourable Member, you have the floor.

Mr. N. H. Cole Simons Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I listened to the Minister’s presentation, and I can say that the legislation is catching up with what already goes on in the industry in the larger trust companies. As she said, when a trust relati onship is established, there are certain pr otocols …

The Speaker The Speaker Mr. Simons, I am going to say thank you for that explanation, from somebody who is in the industry and understands. I had always wondered, how does this affect little Mr. and Mrs. Bermuda? Anyway, does any other Member wish to speak? No other Member wishes to speak? Minister. Hon. …

The Speaker The Speaker Yes. Deputy. House in Committee at 7:07 pm [Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr., Chairman] COMMITTEE ON BILL PROCEEDS OF CRIME (MISCELLANEOUS) ACT 2018

The Chairman Chairman Honourable Members, we are now in Committee of the whole House for further consider ation of the Bill entitled Proceeds of Crime (Miscellaneous) Act 2018. Minister, you have the floor. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am trusting that the amendments, there are several amendments, have already …

The Chairman Chairman Yes. I think that happened. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: May I proceed, Mr. Chairman?

The Chairman Chairman Proceed, Minister. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you. Mr. Chairman, the preamble. The preamble explains that the Bill seeks to amend the Proceeds of Crime Act 1997, the Proceeds of Crime (Anti -Money Laundering and Anti -Terrorist Financing Supervision and Enforcement) Act 2008, the Trustee Act 1975 and the Proceeds …

The Chairman Chairman We will just take a five- minute break. [Pause] Bermuda House of Assembly The Chairman: Minister, do you want to move the clauses first, 1 through 6? Hon. Kim N. Wilson : Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to move, please, clauses . . . The Clerk: Do …

The Speaker The Speaker Yes. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you. Clauses 1 and 2, Mr. Chairman. I would like to move for clauses 1 and 2.

The Chairman Chairman Are there any objections to moving clauses 1 and 2? Carry on. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you. Clause 1 is the citation. Clause 2 amends the Proceeds of Crime Act 1997 by repealing and replac-ing section 42 to widen the scope of the offence of prejudicing an investigation, by …

The Chairman Chairman Any speakers to clauses 1 and 2? There appear to be none. Continue, Minister. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And there is an amendment being proposed for —

The Chairman Chairman Do you want to move clauses 1 and 2 for approval? Hon. Kim N. Wilson: I thought I just moved clauses 1 and 2.

The Chairman Chairman Yes, you need to move so that we get agreement on it. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: I would like to move clauses 1 and 2.

The Chairman Chairman Are there any objections to moving clauses 1 and 2? Approved. [Motion carried: Clauses 1 and 2 passed] Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to move clause 3, please.

The Chairman Chairman Continue. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you. Mr. Chairman, and this is one of the amendments that is being proposed. Mr. Chairman, clause 3 amends the Trustee Act 1975 to require trustees, when doing business with regulated professional service providers and ot her agents on behalf of the trust, to …

The Chairman Chairman Yes. AMENDMENT TO CLAUSE 3 Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. Chairman, the motion is to move to delete clause 3(f) to remove the draft subsection of (1)(a) of section 13AA. What effectively has happened is that there is duplication in this prov ision. It already is contained in [section] 3A …

The Chairman Chairman Hang on. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Do you see where (f) is? It says, “by inse rting, after subsection (1)”?

The Chairman Chairman I do not see any 3(f). [Inaudible interjections] Hon. Kim N. Wilson: It is in the . . . this is the amendment to the Trust . . . remember, Mr. Chair —

The Chairman Chairman Yes. But, see, what you should have . . . If you are making an amendment to the principal Act we should have that in front of us , because we are going by this here. And that has not been— Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Well, the principal Bill has …

The Chairman Chairman Mm-hmm? Hon. Kim N. Wilson: May I proceed?

The Chairman Chairman I am trying to follow you first. I cannot let you proceed until we know — [Crosstalk] Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you. I know, I know. Mr. Chair —

The Chairman Chairman I cannot put any thing before the [Committee] unless — Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Deleting clause 3(f) —

The Chairman Chairman What I am saying to you is that there is no 3(f) in here. [Inaudible interjections] Hon. Kim N. Wilson: I am going to stand by, Mr. Chairman, for a moment, and see if the drafters can try . . .

The Chairman Chairman Yes. The Clerk: Thank you. [Pause]

The Chairman Chairman They are really talking about 2(f), 2A, really. [Inaudible interjections]

The Chairman Chairman You have to put it down that way. You cannot just jump over t hat. [Pause]

The Chairman Chairman Minister, obviously, this thing needs proper explaining , because it is not drafted clearly. [Inaudible interjection]

The Chairman Chairman Right. So it has got to be . . . You need to say, after 2A, there is 3(f). Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Okay, Mr . Chairman.

The Chairman Chairman I have never seen anything come to this House like this before. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Okay, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. And I am appreciative of those comments, Mr. Chairman. And I am also thankful to my learned friend Bermuda House of Assembly in the Opposit ion, the Deputy Opposition …

The Chairman Chairman No. Do you know who has to understand it? The Chair has to understand it! Or else it does not move. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Okay. So, Mr. Chairman, let me try to break this down. On page 3, section 3, this Proceeds of Crime (Miscellaneous) Act, Mr. Chairman, is …

The Chairman Chairman Please. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: So that we can be on the same page. So, the amendment that I am speaking about now is at page 4, and it is (1A), Mr. Chairman. And it is seeking to delete that section, because it already appears in section 3A of the …

The Chairman Chairman Mm-hmm. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: May I proceed, Mr. Chai rman?

The Chairman Chairman Continue. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: So, anyway, Mr. Chairman, the motion is to delete clause 3(f), which I have just explained the location, and remove it from t he draft subsection.

Ms. Leah K. Scott A point of clarification, Mr. Chairman. POINT OF CLARIFICATION

Ms. Leah K. Scott I am looking at the Trustee Act. And I do not see a section 3A.

The Chairman Chairman Yes, you said 3. Do you mean 2A? [Inaudible interjections]

Ms. Leah K. Scott I am looking at the Trustee Act 1975, section— Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Sorry, p aragraph A of the Interpretation Act [sic] of the Trust Act [sic]? I do not have it in front of me. Paragraph A of the Interpretation Act [sic] of the Trustee Act 1975?

Ms. Leah K. Scott In the Interpretation section? Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Yes.

Ms. Leah K. Scott Okay. And then . . .

The Chairman Chairman This . . . this is unbelievable.

Ms. Leah K. Scott There is no 3A.

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member There is no A.

Ms. Leah K. Scott There is no A.

The Chairman Chairman Have we got anything else to do?

Ms. Leah K. Scott There is no 3 or 3A.

The Chairman Chairman This is terrible. [Inaudible interjections] The Clerk: Okay. We will have to come back to this.

The Chairman Chairman Look . We will go to the next item. And if you can get this sorted out —because we have got to do it tonight . . . because this is terrible. The Clerk: This is the next one. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Can I go to the next clause, …

The Chairman Chairman No, no. Hon. K im N. Wilson: Mr. Chairman, Mr. Chair —

The Chairman Chairman We will go to the next Order of Bus iness. If you can sort that out with your technical people . . . because this is confusing to everybody. What is the next O rder? 1838 16 March 2018 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly [Inaudible interjections] The Ch …

Ms. Leah K. Scott Mr. Chairman, I recognise that we are trying to get things done on an expedited basis. But I also recognise the importance of this legislation and the importance to this jurisdiction. And sometimes doing things for speed does not make it right. You know, you want to measure twice and …

The Chairman Chairman I will report back to the House. [Pause and inaudible interjections]

The Chairman Chairman No, no. I am reporting back to the House. [The Committee rose to seek clarity on the Proceeds of Crime (Miscellaneous) Act 2018] House resumed at 7:33 pm [Hon. Dennis P. Lister, Jr., Speaker, in the Chair] REPORT OF COMMITTEE PROCEEDS OF CRIME (MISCELLANEOUS) ACT 2018

The Speaker The Speaker Members, let us find out a little cl arity on where we are right now. Where we are is that we are seeking the i ndulgence of the House to allow us to let this matter sit where it is, in a sense, so that clarity can be brought to …

Some Hon. Members Some Hon. Members Yes. The Sp eaker: Okay. With that said, we will now move on to the next item. And, hopefully, while we are dealing with that you can get that item resolved. The next item on the Order Paper is [Order No.] 8. Premier? It is not a long item, Members. …

The Speaker The Speaker All right. Premier, we are going to recognise you. You are on your feet for [Order No.] 8. MOTION MINISTERS AND MEMBERS OF THE LEGISLA TURE (SALARIES AND PENSIONS) ACT 1975 BE REVOKED Hon. E. David Burt: Mr. Speaker, I move that the House do now t ake into consideration …

The Speaker The Speaker You can take your time and talk slowly, it will bide some time.

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Read the numbers off. [Inaudible interjections]

The Speaker The Speaker Yes, yes. Go up and dow n each line item. Hon. E. David Burt: I hear a whole lot of persons fil ibustering, Mr. Speaker. And I suspect that Members will want their opinions r ecorded in the Hansard so that the Members of the independent salary review board can …

The Speaker The Speaker I did ac count and realise that there were seven names, and not eight. Hon. E. David Burt: Indeed, Mr. Speaker. The legi slation allows for there to be between six and eight members. But there is one accountant, one lawyer or retired puisne judge, one retired Member of the …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Mr. Premier. Does any other Member wish to speak? Remember, we have got time on our hands. So you do not have to race your comments. I recognise the Madam Opposition Leader. You have the floor. Hon. Jeanne J. Atherden: I was going to say, No . . …

The Speaker The Speaker Sure. We will take that. Yes. POINT OF CLARIFICATION Hon. E. David Burt: The Premier, under the Act, does have t he power to appoint a chairman. A chairman has not yet been appointed. Hon. Jeanne J. Atherden: No. As I say, I did not want one- and-one making three, …

The Speaker The Speaker Make many donations, too, right? Yes. Make many donations? [Laughter] Hon. Jeanne J. Atherden: And make many don ations. Donations of time, as well as other things. I am just trying to determine whether . . . Do they need about fiv e more minutes? There are others. I mean, …

Mrs. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I just wanted to make sure that I am fully cognitive of the motion that the Premier is speaking to. Because I think that we are conflating both the motion and the Minister ial Statement with respect to the committee for pensions and the …

Mrs. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin The matter with respect to the members of the committee, I think it is a side discussion and perhaps not even appropriate at this particular point. But certainly —

The Speaker The Speaker We have got time. We have got time on our hands.

Mrs. Patricia J. Gordon -Pampl in Well, I was just going to say —

The Speaker The Speaker So, the Speaker is being very lenient because of time.

Mrs. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin I understand that. And, truthfully, I want to make sure that we do not, you know, mix up what it is that we are meant to be doing. So, I think technically we are saying that we can be paid up until March 31 of 2018, because that was approved …

The Speaker The Speaker Correct.

Mrs. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin We now hav e a new authorisation to be paid, which is all that should be discussed in this particular Resolution that the Premier has made. And those new salaries will take effect from April 1 st and take us through to March 31st of 2019.

Mrs. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin The committee that is being referred to may, in its deliberations, come up with a different number for various categories and Bermuda House of Assembly the like. But that is not the subject of what it is that we are meant to be approving here tonight. So I t hink …

The Speaker The Speaker Are they smiling? One is limping. What? It was not that bad, was it? Members are co ming in here limping now? [Inaudible interjections and laughter]

Mrs. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin So, I just wanted to support my Leader.

The Speaker The Speaker Minister, are you all right?

Mrs. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin No, she is struggling. She is struggling. Hon. E. David Burt: Service under fire.

The Speaker The Speaker Ah, I did not realise committee meetings were that strenuous. [Laughter]

The Speaker The Speaker Member, are you finished? I am sorry, Member.

Mrs. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin That is okay, Mr. Speaker. As I said, I am quite happy to accommodate the House under these circumstances. But I just wanted to say that I definitely want to support my Leader in at least allowing all of the Members here to be paid for the next year, irrespective …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Member. Yes. I recognise the Honourable Member from constituency 2. Honourable Member Swan, you have the floor.

Mr. Hubert (Kim) E. Swan Yes, Mr. Speaker. Only in the interest of assisting with the time element, I only want to offer that I am in support of the Resolution. I felt somewhat duty -bound to extend my thoughts on the good services that have been provided over many, many years. And, as I …

The Speaker The Speaker Ah—ah —ah—ah— ah— ah! [Gavel] [Laughter]

The Speaker The Speaker I am going to put a bell on there for you just so it hits you every time you jump up. Continue on, Member. Continue, Member.

Mr. Hubert (Kim) E. Swan —that are listed here. And I am appreciative that an independent panel will be looking at this matter. I could not help but note that, having held a constitutional office before, that of Opposition Leader, I am duty -bound to say that that office, and your office, Mr. Speaker, carry …

The Speaker The Speaker Well, are we waiting for the Opposition spokesperson to come back in.

Mr. Hubert (Kim) E. Swan Spokesperson? Okay.

The Speaker The Speaker Everyone else is back in. Are we wai ting for her? 1842 16 March 2018 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly [Inaudible interjections]

The Speaker The Speaker You still have the floor then, Mr. Swan.

Mr. Hubert (Kim) E. Swan Okay. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I mean, there are many things I could say. But I will defer to the substantive Minister for this Bill that will follow.

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Honourable Member. Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak? We recognise the Honourable Premier. Honourable Premier. Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have heard a lot of questions. I will try to answer them as quickly as possible. Regarding the …

The Speaker The Speaker Any objections to that? I hear nothing. I assume that it has been passed unanimously. That brings us to a close of that item, which is actually the last item on the Order Paper . However, with the indulgence of the House, we had taken a recess on the previous …

The Chairman Chairman We will resume consideration of the Proceeds of Crime (Miscellaneous) Act 2018 . Minister, you have the floor. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for your indulgence, and that of the Speaker, in making the recommendation for us to have a sidebar conversation. I can …

The Chairman Chairman Mm-hmm. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: But, needless to say, Mr. Chairman, we were speaking about the amendments, the first amendment to clause 3(f).

The Chairman Chairman Right. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: I have discussed it. I have explained it in the House. I will take my seat just in case somebody else wishes to speak to that particular amendment.

The Chairman Chairman Any further speakers? The Chair recognises the Honourable Leah Scott.

Ms. Leah K. Scott Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Having met with the Minister and the technical officers, I do understand the clause now. And I am okay with the deletion of the clause 3(f).

The Speaker The Speaker Minister. Do you want to move that clause with t he amendment? Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Yes, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I would like to move clause 3, as amended.

The Chairman Chairman It has been moved that clause 3, with the amendments, be approved. Are there any objections to that? There appear to be none. Approved. [Motion carried: Clause 3 passed as amended] Bermuda House of Assembly The Chairman: Continue. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to …

The Chairman Chairman Yes. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. Chairman, are you with me?

The Chairman Chairman Got you. Yes, I am with you. AMENDMENT TO CLAUSE 4 Hon. Kim N. Wilson: So, the proposed amendment will be to, immediately before the words “for the purposes of,” insert the words “and take effective measures.” So, it will read, “(1A): A supervisory au-thority must effectively monitor the relevant …

The Chairman Chairman Thank you. Are there any speakers? The Chair recognises Leah Scott, the Ho nourable Member.

Ms. Leah K. Scott Mr. Chairman, thank you. I had some questions in clause 3. Am I able to ask questions about that? [Inaudible interjections]

The Chairman Chairman Go ahead and ask.

Ms. Leah K. Scott Okay. Thank you for your indu lgence.

The Chairman Chairman Clause 3.

Ms. Leah K. Scott On page 4, (2A), the identification of trustee obligations. A trustee generally, and a cor-porate trustee automatically, identifies himself as a trustee whenever they enter into a transaction. My concern is, how are lay trustees, who generally do not have access to this type of information, going to be able …

The Chairman Chairman What page are you—

Ms. Leah K. Scott Oh, sorry, page 4 of the Proceeds of Crime (Miscellaneous) Act. See the identification of trustee obligations —

The Chairman Chairman Really, we cannot go back. And once it has been appro ved and passed, we cannot go back on it.

Ms. Leah K. Scott Okay. I just wanted answers to my questions. That is fine. I still have questions on clause 4. So, on page 6.

The Chairman Chairman Page 6.

Ms. Leah K. Scott Clause 4, “The Proceeds of Crime (Anti-Money Laundering and Anti -Terrorist Financing Supervision and Enforcement) Act 2008 —(a) by i nserting after section 3(5) the following—” And then it talks about that supervisory authorities may cooperate and coordinate with each other. This is one of the conc erns that we …

Ms. Leah K. Scott Yes, sir.

The Chairman Chairman Okay.

Ms. Leah K. Scott And then, in section (c) on that same page 4 [sic] , clause 4(c) amending section 11A(1), they want to delete the word “and” at the end of paragraph (a). This section actually, in the Trustee Act—

The Chairman Chairman Section 11A(1)?

Ms. Leah K. Scott Section 11A(1). On page 6. [Pause]

The Chairman Chairman Do I see 11A(1)? Oh, I see it. Yes, I have got you. Thank you.

Ms. Leah K. Scott So, this c lause amends the pri ncipal Act, which deals with the fit and proper test. And it requires that a compliance officer now has to be a fit and proper person. This is fine for a licensed trustee. But how is the lay trustee going to address this? …

The Chairman Chairman Any further speakers? Minister, do you want to conti nue? Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you. Yes, thank you, Mr. Chairman. With respect to the question concerning the cooperation, authorities may cooperate and coord i-nate with each other . . . one of the requirements by which Bermuda will be …

The Chairman Chairman Any further speakers?

Ms. Leah K. Scott Point of order, Mr. Speaker. I am not sure whether it is a point of order or a point of clarification.

The Chairman Chairman Mm-hmm.

Ms. Leah K. Scott What happens to existing trusts? You have trusts that have been around, that are homestead trusts. There are a lot of Bermudians who have homestead trusts, and all they do is hold property. And a lot of those trusts have individuals as trustees. So, my question is, I understand going …

Mr. N. H. Cole Simons As the Minister said, you know, you have lay trustees. And I have a real exam-ple that I am aware of. I know of a trust that has, the truth is, a housekeeper as the trustee. And it was pr oduced by a law firm. And I am saying, you …

The Chairman Chairman Minister. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

The Chairman Chairman Put your microphone on, please. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Well, first of all, Mr. Chairman, this legislation does not speak to, or does not apply to, lay trustees. So, the example, I guess, concerning a Mr. and Mrs. Smith, if they are lay trustees, then these …

The Chairman Chairman Well, let me say I hope you don’t a nswer that, because I took a little fancy to that co mment. You are saying a housekeeper. A housekeeper could be very well -educated and everything else. [Inaudible interjection]

The Chairman Chairman Yes. But I do not think . . . I thought that was inappropriate for this House to represent everybody . . . Do no t put down housekeepers, please. I do not think that was your intent, now. But I just thought it was not the correct language.

Mr. N. H. Cole Simons Mr. Chairman, for clarific ation, I am saying this because, when you act in a trustee role, you should understand the role that you are undertaking.

The Chairman Chairman No, I understand that. I am very clear.

Mr. N. H. Cole Simons Okay.

The Chairman Chairman And I do not think that was your i ntent, because you are not that type of person. Mr. N. H. Cole Simons: No.

The Chairman Chairman I know that for a fact. Honourable Deputy Leader of the Opposition.

Ms. Leah K. Scott Yes, Mr. Chairman, thank you. I just have a point of clarification for the Mini ster. POINT OF CLARIFICATION

Ms. Leah K. Scott She said that this legislation . . . I am not sure if you mean this legislation in its entirety is not going to relate to lay trustees, because the trustee Act [language] actually does address nonprofessional trustees. So I am not sure how you can carve out certain sections …

The Chairman Chairman Any further speakers? Minister. [Pause] Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. Chairman, yes. This legisl ation seeks to strike the right balance. We are trying to ensure that we are compliant with our AML/ATF obl igations. Yes, we recognise that there are some persons who may feel that this is somewhat …

The Chairman Chairman Thank you. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: As such, I would like to move clause 4, as amended.

The Chairman Chairman Any objections to moving clause 4 at this point?

Ms. Leah K. Scott Yes. I have one more question, Mr. Chairman, just in terms of the fit and proper person.

The Chairman Chairman Go ahead.

Ms. Leah K. Scott In the Proceeds of Crime . . . You do not have a copy of this, but if I could just read it to you. It is th e Proceeds of Crime (Anti -Money Laundering and Anti -Terrorist Financing Supervision and E nforcement) Act 2008. And it has a schedule …

Ms. Leah K. Scott “These are persons in the bus iness of dealing in high value goods who, in a transaction or series of linked transactions, accept a total cash payment (in any currency) that is equivalent to at least BMD [Bermuda dollars] $7,500.” So, my concern is, if a person is to be …

The Chairman Chairman Minister, do you want to respond to that? Hon. Kim N. Wilson: I will only respond by indicating, again, Mr. Chairman, t his particular provision that we are speaking about, under the Bill, as it relates to [proposed] section 11A(1)(aa), compliance officers’ requirement of fit and proper persons with respect …

The Chairman Chairman Just one second. Any further speakers? Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Sorry —a lay trustee, lay trustee, lay trustee.

The Chairman Chairman Okay. Any further speakers? Okay, Minister, you can move now. Hon. K im N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

The Chairman Chairman You should turn your microphone on, please. Do you want to move that clause? Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Yes, Mr. Chairman, thank you. I would like to move clause 4, as amended.

The Chairman Chairman It has been mov ed that clause 4, with the proposed amendments, be approved. Any objections to that? No objections. Approved. [Motion carried: Clause 4 passed as amended] Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to move clause 5, which also has an am endment. Mr. …

The Chairman Chairman Mm-hmm. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: And where it says clause 5 amends the Proceeds of Crime (Anti -Money Laundering and Anti -Terrorist Financing) Act. Yes? (Sorry, Mr. Chairman.) And then, under clause 5(a)(iii) — The Clerk: [It is] 5 (c)(iii). Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Sorry. Clause 5(c)(iii), where you see …

The Chairman Chairman Any further speakers? The Chair recognises the Honourable Leah Scott.

Ms. Leah K. Scott Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I ask for your indulgence because I have quite a few questions.

The Chairman Chairman Continue.

Ms. Leah K. Scott So, I am on page 7, clause 5. The first question is under 5(a), “in regulation 3(3), by r evoking and replacing paragraph (a) with the follo wing—‘(a) any individual who is e ntitled to a specified interest in the trust property.’” Previously, they identified a threshold of 25 per …

Ms. Leah K. Scott I do not know. And then, in clause 5(c)(iii), proposed section [6(1B)(k), the one we just amended, “an obligation to collect information” and “the legal powers that regulate and bind a legal person or legal arrangement.” What kind of information are they seeking to get? I know that banks and …

The Chairman Chairman Mm-hmm.

Ms. Leah K. Scott The other question I had (I am sorry), going back up to clause 5(a), [proposed regul ation 3(3)(a)], they want information on “any individual who is entitled to a specified inter est in the trust pro perty.” So, a beneficiary may have a vested interest in a property, but that …

The Chairman Chairman That is it?

Ms. Leah K. Scott Thank you.

The Chairman Chairman Any further speakers? There appear to be none. Minister, do you want to continue? Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Yes, thank you, Mr. Chairman. A couple of questions, and I have got some answers. I think the first one . . . and I appreciate the question. But if a bank …

Ms. Leah K. Scott Point of clarification, Mr. Chai rman. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: I will yield.

The Chairman Chairman Okay. POINT OF CLARIFICATION

Ms. Leah K. Scott Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There are instances where trusts are established where beneficiaries do not know that there are trusts. There are trusts where the trusts are secret, or they are not entitled to any of the information. There are trusts, generally, the legislation is that if a person is …

The Chairman Chairman Minister. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: And, likewise, in those instances, it would certainly be up to the bank to determine whet her or not, notwithstanding that the beneficiary does not need to produce that information, the banking institution may very well decide, It is a red flag and I am …

Ms. Leah K. Scott Point of clarification, Mr. Chai rman. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: I am not going to yield.

The Chairman Chairman Let her finish, and then you get up. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you. Thanks. And with respect to the beneficial owner i ssue, again this is a concept that is recognised by FATF. And we are meeting our obligation with FATF. Mr. Chairman, the National Anti -Money Lau ndering …

The Chairman Chairman Just, just one second— Hon. Kim N. Wilson: —with amendments —

The Chairman Chairman Yes. POINT OF CLARIFICATION

Ms. Leah K. Scott Just a point of clarification, b ecause I think that the Honourable Minister might have said that the FATF says that we have to have the 25 per cent threshold. But this legislation is r emoving the 25 per cent threshold. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: That is correct. There is …

Ms. Leah K. Scott Thank you.

The Chairman Chairman You can move now. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thanks, Mr. Chairman. I would like to move clause 5, as amended. Bermuda House of Assembly The Chairman: It has been moved that clause 5, as amended, be approved. Any objection to that? There appear to be none. Approved. [Motion carried: Clause …

The Chairman Chairman Continue, Minister. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. Chairman, I would like to move clause 6, which is the transitional provision. As I have indicated previously during the brief, there are certain obligations that certain businesses will have to abide by, for example, recordkeeping and the like. And thi s Bill …

The Chairman Chairman Right. Any further speakers? The Chair recognises the Deputy Leader of the Opposition, Leah Scott.

Ms. Leah K. Scott Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just the same question. In terms of the trans itional provision, what happens to lay trustees who are not aware of this? The other thing is that — [Inaudible interjections]

Ms. Leah K. Scott I think the supervisory section did not apply. I do not know if this is a whole Act that does not apply. [Inaudible interjections]

Ms. Leah K. Scott Okay.

The Chairman Chairman Do not leave me out, now. [Laughter]

Ms. Leah K. Scott Oh, sorry, s orry. Sorry, Mr. Chairman. I am sorry. Okay. Is six months the maximum time available for remediation, or can there be an extension? I see there could be the relevant supervisory authority has to make the extension. And then, the last question is, if our trust rel …

The Chairman Chairman Minister. An Hon. Member: Yes. Yes. Say yes! Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. Chairman, the transitional provision, I am just reading the question about licensing because the transitional period is speaking to the six months transition. The recordkeeping requirement that I spoke about previously, which is regulation 15 in the …

The Chairman Chairman Yes. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Any further speakers?

The Chairman Chairman Any further speakers? There appear to be none. Minister, continue. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. Chairman, I would like to move clause 6.

The Chairman Chairman It has been moved that clause 6 be approved. Any objections? There appear to be no objections. Agreed. [Motion carried: Clause 6 passed] Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. Chairman, the following amendments that I am presenting all will be amendments to the Com panies Act 1981, by inserting . . …

The Chairman Chairman Read on. The Clerk: This is wholly something else altogether. [Pause]

The Chairman Chairman Go ahead, Minister. I am trying to follow you. Just bear with us for a second. [Pause] Hon. Kim N. Wilson: We are inserting a new clause 7 to the Bill.

The Chairman Chairman To the Bill? Okay. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Correct. In fact, there will be several clauses that we are inserting.

The Chairman Chairman Okay. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Should I proceed? 1850 16 March 2018 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly The Chairman: Go right ahead. NEW CLAUSE 7 Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, very much, for your indulgence. All right. Clause 7. So, “The Companies Act 1981 is …

The Chairman Chairman Minister, bear with me for a second. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Sure.

The Chairman Chairman You are going to move 261A to . . . or are you doing . . . Hon. Kim N. Wilson: I would like, with your leave, to just do all of 261A.

The Chairman Chairman Okay. And then? Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Amendment.

The Chairman Chairman Yes. Continue. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. “(4) The Registrar may not strike a company’s name off of the register under this section until after the expiration of sixty days after the publication by the Registrar in the Official Gazette of a notice—(a) stating that the Registrar …

The Chairman Chairman Before you stand, Deputy Opposition Leader. Minister, you are lifting this right from the Companies Act? Are there any changes? Hon. Kim N. Wilson: No. This is a new section.

The Chairman Chairman Okay. I just wanted to be clear. Honourable Member Scott, continue.

Ms. Leah K. Scott Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So, this section 261A is a new section. But generally, companies have been allowed to be struck off. You could write a letter to the Registrar, say that there is no need for the company anymore, ensure that the company has not traded and that it …

The Chairman Chairman That is the question?

Ms. Leah K. Scott That is my question. Is there an evergreen . . . Because, basically it says, “the liability, if any, of every officer and member of the company shall continue and may be enforced as if the company had not been dissolved.” The other question I have, and just maybe I …

Ms. Leah K. Scott Okay. And then, finally, proposed section 261A(10), “The Registrar may, for the purposes of this section, send notices to the company by ordinary post or in such other agreed upon manner.” And who is the agreement with in terms of how they are going to dispatch notices? And that is …

Mr. Chairman. The Chairman Any further speakers? Minister. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just starting from the last question first. The agreement would be between the Registrar and the company to which the notice i s to be served. So, they would make an agreement between the two. If it was …

The Chairman Chairman We want to yield. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Oh, thank you.

The Chairman Chairman The Chair recognises the Honourable Grant Gibbons.

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons Thank you, Mr. Chai rman. Mr. Chairman, I refer back to your comments earlier this evening. I think we are being remarkably indulgent here. In 25 years, I have never seen insertions for Companies Act amendments, or something like that, put in where there is no reference to the Companies …

The Chairman Chairman Thank you. [Inaudible interjections ]

The Chairman Chairman Well, we are trying to keep in conformance with international regulations. And I understand. The Minister is still . . . [Pause]

Mr. N. H. Cole Simons Go over section 261B(1) again.

The Chairman Chairman You cannot. That is finished. [Pause]

The Chairman Chairman Minister, we cannot wait much longer on this. 1852 16 March 2018 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. Chairman, and I am so grateful for the indulgence of this House. As the Mini ster of Health, you would know what my position is.

The Chairman Chairman Yes. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: And I am attempting to do the best that I can to carry this Bill. I know amendments . . . this is an ever -moving process. Unfortunately, it is moving at the speed of light. And if we do not keep up with the …

Ms. Leah K. Scott Mr. Chairman, that is not an acceptable answer. But I just wonder if it is possible . . . Can they give me the answers at another time, or pr ovide them later or —

The Chairman Chairman If that is acceptable to you. [Pause]

Ms. Leah K. Scott Well, I am not satisfied with the answer.

The Chairman Chairman Minister. [Inaudible interjections]

The Chairman Chairman Yes. You can move. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. Chairman, I would like to move [new] clause 7, as amended . . . of the Companies Act . . . be amended by inserting the section 261, which I have just read out.

The Chairman Chairman It has been moved that clause 7, r egarding section 261, be approved. Any objection? There would appear to be none. Agreed to.

The Chairman Chairman Continue on, Minister. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to go on to clause 8.

The Chairman Chairman Give me a location. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: I am sorry. Section 261B. I apologise. Section 2 . . . May I proceed, Mr. Chai rman? The Chairman: Of course. You are talking about clause 7, section 261B? Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Section 261B; that is correct. Thank you, Mr. …

The Chairman Chairman Yes. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: We are still on clause 7. I did, with the Chair’s leave, do it in chunk -sizes. So we are just doing one section at a time. So, with your leave, Mr. Chairman, I would like to proceed with section 261B.

The Chairman Chairman Continue. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. “Withdrawal of application “261B(1) The applicant or applicants may, by written notice to the Registrar, withdraw an application to strike a company’s name off of the register under section 261A at any time before the name of the company has been …

The Chairman Chairman Okay. Any further speakers? The Chair recognises the Honourable Member Leah Scott.

Ms. Leah K. Scott Actually, this is one of the few clauses that I actually do agree with. I do not have any problem with it. [Laughter]

Ms. Leah K. Scott I would also like to know whether there is going to be a cost associated with m aking an application to have a company struck off, or with having an application to have one withdrawn.

The Chairman Chairman Any further speakers? Minister, you have the floor. [Inaudible interjection]

The Chairman Chairman Yes. Next time, turn on your micr ophone, p lease. Bermuda House of Assembly [Inaudible interjection]

Ms. Leah K. Scott I am happy with the clauses, but I would like to know whether or not there is a cost associated with an application to either have the compa-ny struck off or to make an application to have the applicatio n to have the company struck off withdrawn. Hon. Kim N. …

The Chairman Chairman It has been moved that clause 7, subsection 261B, be approved. Any objections? There are no objections. Approved. Continu e. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. Chairman, I would like to proceed with clause 7 amending section 261C.

The Chairman Chairman Yes, continue. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. Chairman, “Objections to strike off “261C (1) Where a notice is published by the Registrar under secti on 261A(4) of the Registrar’s i ntention to strike the company‘s name off of the regi ster, any person may deliver, not later than the date …

Ms. Leah K. Scott This is a new thing. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Sorry, Mr. Chairman. That concludes it. The Chairman: Yes. To (c) is good. And the Chair recognises the Honourable Member Pat Gordon- Pamplin.

Mrs. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I saw that the Minister actually had struggled a bit with the subsections of this item 2. The purpose for this is that we have three subsections under section 261C(2). We have an (a), we have a (b), and we have a (c). And …

Mrs. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin Right. So I think, just to make sure that we have the correct wording of this clause. [Inaudi ble interjections]

The Chairman Chairman One second, one second. Go ahead, Ms. Scott.

Ms. Leah K. Scott Mr. Chairman, could I just say I appreciate the urgency of this. But again, I would just like to go on record as saying that I appreciate the indulgence of the House. But this is not an acceptable manner to pr oduce a piece of legislation, particularly if we are …

The Chairman Chairman The Chair recognises the Premier, the Honourable David Burt. Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I understand the concerns of Members opposite. And as I have discussed with the leadership on that side, it is unfortunate that we are in this place. There is …

The Chairman Chairman Members, you have heard the Premier. [Inaudible interjections]

Ms. Leah K. Scott Mr. Chairman, I would like to thank the Premier for his comments and for his indu lgence. We are prepared to work through this. But, you know, it is just really important that we get it right. And I know that you have been a part of it and that …

The Speaker The Speaker Minister, do you want to . . . Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. Chairman, I would like to move clause 7, as amended.

The Chairman Chairman Clause 7, amendment to section 261C? Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Yes, thank you.

The Chairman Chairman It has been moved that clause 7— Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Can I just add, Mr. Chairman?

Ms. Leah K. Scott I have not had any input to the . . .

The Chairman Chairman Oh, I am sorry. I thought you had. My apologies.

Ms. Leah K. Scott No problem. The Chairman: Continue.

Ms. Leah K. Scott Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On page 7, under section 261C(1), it refer s to an objection to the strikeoff. And the company has to meet prescribed grounds. And then it refers back to section 261A(1). But all 261A(1) is that the Registrar may, on the application of a company, strike …

The Chairman Chairman And the Chair recognises the Honourable Pat Gordon- Pamplin.

Mrs. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I just wanted to make sure that the Minister agreed that, [in section 261C(2)] (c) needs to come out and that the content of (c) be merged with (b) in order to make . . . This is on page 7 under section 261C(2), …

The Chairman Chairman All right. Any further . . . Minister, do you want to move? Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Yes. With respect to the question that was asked concerning the manner in which the conditions that will be prescribed, they will be done by guidance notes.

Ms. Leah K. Scott Okay. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: With that, Mr. Chairman, I would like to move subsections . . .

The Chairman Chairman Clause 7. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Yes. Clause 7, in particular the amendment to section 261C. Bermuda House of Assembly The Chairman: It has been moved that clause 7, amendment to section 261C, be approved. Any objections? There appear to be none; as amended, agreed. [Motion carried: New clause 7 …

The Chairman Chairman Yes, you may. NEW CLAUSE 8 Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Okay. So I will do all of clause 8. This amends the Proceeds of Crime Act 1997. Mr. Chairman, “The Proceeds of Crime Act 1997 is amended in section 42A(1), by repealing and replacing section [paragraph] (g) with the following …

The Chairman Chairman Any further speakers?

Ms. Leah K. Scott Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So, this section is aimed at private trust companies. And I am just asking . . . I need to ask a question on section 42A(1)(g)(ii). So, “such exempted person has in its corporate structure or engages the services of a trust bus iness, licensed by …

The Chairman Chairman Go ahead. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you. So, what this provision is saying, Mr. Chai rman, is that we are repealing section 42A(1) (g) and replacing it with the following . . . so, if you are a PTC and you provide (i) such exempted person utilises the services …

The Chairman Chairman Okay. The Chair recognises the Honourable Member Scott, Leah Scott.

Ms. Leah K. Scott I do not get that same reading from this. Unless I am reading it wrong. [Pause] Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Perhaps I could be of assi stance?

The Chairman Chairman Continue. Yes. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Okay. Again, we are repealing and repl acing. So if you are a PTC, and you are doing what is outlined in paragraph (i) or you are doing what is outlined in paragraph (ii) . . . so you are providing corporate structure. You …

The Chairman Chairman Right. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Because you are already deemed to be within the AML framework. And, to my colleague, my learned friend the Deputy Oppositi on Leader, there are probably approximately 14 entities that specifically this provision would relate to, of PTCs.

The Chairman Chairman Any further speakers?

Ms. Leah K. Scott Sorry, Mr. Chairman. So, section 42A(1) of the Proceeds of Crime Act says, “In this part—‘AML/ATF regulated financial institution’ means a person who— . . .” The current section (g) reads, “carries on trust business within the 1856 16 March 2018 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly meaning of …

Ms. Leah K. Scott Right? But there is nothing in here that says that you do not have to be licensed. [Inaudible interjections]

Ms. Leah K. Scott So . . . Sorry. Just bear with me. So, my question in section [42A(1)(g)](ii) is, does the exempted person have to have, in its corporate structure, trust business, to be exempted? That is how I am reading the paragraph, unless I am interpreting it the wrong way. Hon. Kim …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Behold new things! Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Behold new things! This is new. So the old section 42A(1)(g) is gone. We are repea ling it and replacing it with what is here. And those words “except for any person,” there is the proviso. There is the exception that is contained …

Ms. Leah K. Scott Mr. Chairman, I agree with the Minister. But my question remains the same. Does that PTC have to have within its structure a trust bus iness or engage the services of a trust business? I understand the old (g) is gone away and the new (g) has come in. But …

The Chairman Chairman Thank you. Any further speakers? The answer was no, Honourable Member. If you are not satisfied, then I think you should get up and express . . . Minister. [Inaudible interjections] Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to move clause 8, as amended.

The Chairman Chairman It has been moved that clause 8 be approved. Any objections? There appear to be none; approved. [Motion carried: New clause 8 passed.] Hon. Kim N. Wilson: This is never -ending. [Laughter]

Ms. Leah K. Scott That is how we feel . [Laughter] Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. Chairman, may I proceed with—

The Chairman Chairman Yes. Continue. NEW CLAUSE 9 Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. Chairman, may I proceed with clause 9? I would like to move clause 9 of the Bill thereby amending the Companies Act (we are back to the Companies Act now) as follows: “The C ompanies Act 1981 is amended— (a) …

The Chairman Chairman The Chair recognises the Honourable Leah Scott. I’m sorry, this is . . . anyhow —

Ms. Leah K. Scott I thank the Chair for the recogn ition. Mr. Chairman, section 9(a)(iii)(g), on page 10, “the filing of information, referred to in paragraphs (a), (e) and (f), in a prescribed form.” . . . those documents are the transfer of shares in a deceased’s estate, the duties of the secretary, …

The Chairman Chairman Minister? Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With respect to the question concerning the bye-laws, I think I stated previously that consultation has taken place heavily with respect to this. However, it is something that was raised concerning this. And I can say that as a result of …

The Chairman Chairman The Chair recognised the Premier. Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you, very much, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, there is another question that was asked by the Deputy Leader of the Opposition regarding security of the system for the information. I am happy to inform t he Honourable Member it should …

The Chairman Chairman Thank you, Honourable Premier.

Ms. Leah K. Scott Thank you, Mr. Premier. I appr eciate that. Mr. Chairman, I have one more question. On page 10, [claus e 9 (c)] (1A) about the Form 13 that has to be filed, and the Form 13 sets out where the registered office is. And it says that it is now …

The Chairman Chairman Minister? Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. Chairman, with respect to a company that does not have a CSP, then this would not apply. It would only apply to companies that are part of a CSP which is used because multiple CSPs have the same building and street address. So they …

The Chairman Chairman Any further speakers? Minister, do you want to move clause 9? Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. Chairman, I would like to move clause 9 as amended.

The Chairman Chairman It has been moved that clause 9 be approved. Any objection? No objection. Agreed to. [Motion carried: New c lause 9 passed.] Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. Chairman, clause 10.

The Chairman Chairman Continue. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: I would like to move clause 10 as amended. It is by inserting clause 13 into the Bill thereby revoking and replacing form 13 of the Companies Rules Forms 1982 with the following. (And then the form is attached.)

The Chairman Chairman It should be on page 11. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Oh, I am jumping ahead. I’m sorry.

The Chairman Chairman I understand. You’r e tired. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: I was hoping nobody would notice. [Laughter] Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Where am I? Am I on clause 10?

The Chairman Chairman Ten. NEW CLAUSE 10 Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Yes, Mr. Chairman, I would like to move clause 10 by amending the Anti -Terrorism (Financial and Other Measures ) Act 2004 as follows.

The Chairman Chairman Continue. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you. Clause 10. “The Anti -Terrorism (Financial and Other Measures) Act 2004 is amended in section 2(1) by repealing and replacing paragraph (g) with the following — ‘(g) carries on trust business within the meaning of section 9(3) of the Trusts (Regulation of Trust …

The Chairman Chairman Okay. Minister, do you want to move that? Hon. Kim N. Wilson: I am so obliged to the Oppos ition’s Deputy [Leader]. I would like to move clause 7 as amended —

The Chairman Chairman No, this is clause 10. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Sorry, clause 10, as amended.

The Chairman Chairman It has been moved that clause 10 as amended by approved. Any objections? No objections. Approved. [Motion carried: New c lause 10 passed.] Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to move the remaining clauses, which are clauses 11, 12 and 13. Clause 8, sorry, clause …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Clause 11. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Clause 11 (excuse me), so it’s 11, 12, and 13 I would like to move.

The Chairman Chairman Continue. NEW CLAUSES 11, 12, AND 13 Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you. Clause 11 amends the Proceeds of Cr ime (Anti-Money Laundering and Anti -Terrorist Financing Supervision and Enforcement) Act 2008, in section 2(1) by repealing and replacing paragraph (g), with the following “carries on trust business within the …

The Chairman Chairman Any further speaker s?

Ms. Leah K. Scott I just have one, Mr. Chairman, on page 14, “(g)(i) such exempted person” and then there is a (ii), but there is no wording there. So I think number (iii) needs to be moved up to number (ii); and then number (iii) is eliminated.

The Chairman Chairman Okay. Minister? Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you. Mr. Chairman, I think I have moved all of the amendments to clauses 11, 12 and 13.

The Chairman Chairman It has been moved that clauses 11, 12, and 13 be approved. Any objections? No objections. Agreed to. [Motion carried: New c lauses 11, 12, and 13 passed.] Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. Chairman, I move that the preamble be approved.

The Chairman Chairman It has been moved that the preamble be approved. Any objections? There appear to be none. Agreed to. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. Chairman, I move that the Bill, be reported to the House as amended.

The Chairman Chairman It has been moved that the Bill be reported to the House as amended. 1860 16 March 2018 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly Are there any objections? No. [Motion carried: A Bill entitled the Proceeds of Crime (Miscellaneous) Bill 2018 was considered by a Committee of the whole …

The Chairman Chairman We thank you also. House resumed at 9:16 pm [Hon. Dennis P. Lister, Jr. Speaker, in the Chair] REPORT OF COMMITTEE PROCEEDS OF CRIME (MISCEL LANEOUS) BILL 2018

The Speaker The Speaker Good evening, Members. Members, are there any objections to the Pr oceeds of Crime (Miscellaneous) Bill 2018 being r eported to the House with amendments? No objections? So moved. That now brings us to the end of the Orders for today. We go to our third readings. Minister? SUSPENSION OF …

The Speaker The Speaker Any objections? No objections. Continue, Minister. [Motion carried: Standing Order 21 suspended.] BILL THIRD READING CUSTOMS TARIFF AMENDMENT ACT 2018 Hon. E. David Burt: Mr. Speaker, I move that the Bill entitled the Customs Tariff Amendment Act 2018 be now read a third time by its title only and passed. …

The Speaker The Speaker Continue on with the other. SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDER 21 Hon. E. David Burt: Mr. Speaker, I will do a Bill so the Honourable Minister does not have to stand again. I move that Standing Order 21 be suspended to enable me to move that the Bill entitled the Pr …

The Speaker The Speaker Any objections? No objections. Continue, Minister. [Motion carried: Standing Order 21 suspended.] BILL THIRD READING PROCE EDS OF CRIME (MISCELLANEOUS) ACT 2018 Hon. E. David Burt: Mr. Speaker, I move that the Bill entitled the Proceeds of Crime (Miscellaneous) Act 2018 be read a third time by its title only …

The Speaker The Speaker Any objections? No objections. It is now passed. [Motion carried: The Proceeds of Crime (Miscellaneous) Act 2018 was read a third time and passed.]

The Speaker The Speaker Third reading? SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDER 21 Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, I move that Standing Order 21 be sus pended to enable me to move that the Bill entitled the Payroll Tax Amendment Act 2018 be read the third time by its title only.

The Speaker The Speaker Any objections? No objections. Continue, Minister. [Motion carried: Standing Order 21 suspended.] Bermuda House of Assembly BILL THIRD READING PAYROLL TAX AMENDMENT ACT 2018 Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Payroll Tax Amendment Act 2018, I now move that it be passed.

The Speaker The Speaker Any objections? No objections. It is now passed. [Motion carried: The Payroll Tax Amendment Act 2018 was read a t hird time and passed.]

The Chairman Chairman Minister? SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDER 21 Hon. Jamahl S. Simmons: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And good evening. I move that Standing Order 21 be suspended to enable me to move that the Bill entitled Partnership, Exempted Partnerships and Limited Partnership (Beneficial Ownership) Act 2018 be read the third time by …

The Speaker The Speaker Any objections? No objections. Continue, Minister. [Motion carried: Standing Order 21 suspended.] BILL THIRD READING PARTN ERSHIP, EXEMPTED PARTNERSHIPS AND LIMITED PARTNERSHIP (BENEFICIAL OWNERSHIP) ACT 2018 Hon. Jamahl S. Simmons: Mr. Speaker, I move that the Bill entitled be read a third time by its title only and passed.

The Speaker The Speaker Any objections? No objections. It is now passed. [Motion c arried: The Partnership, Exempted Partnerships and Limited Partnership (Beneficial Ownership) Act 2018 was read a third time and passed.]

The Speaker The Speaker Minister Brown. Hon. Walton Brown: Yes, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker The Speaker Continue. SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDER 21 Hon. Walton Brown: I move that Standing Order 21 be suspended to enable me to move that the Bill ent itled the Municipalities Amendment Act 2018 be now read the third time by its title only.

The Speaker The Speaker Read on. [Motion c arried: Standing Order 21 suspended.] BILL THIRD READING MUNICIPALITIES AMENDMENT ACT 2018 Hon. Walton Brown: Mr. Speaker, I move that the Bill be now read a third time by its title only and passed.

The Speaker The Speaker No objections? It is now passed. [Motion carried: Municipalities Amendment Act 2018 was read a third time and passed.]

The Speaker The Speaker Are those all our third readings? [Inaudible interjections ]

The Speaker The Speaker They are all done? Premier? ADJOURNMENT Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you, very muc h, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have spoken to the Opposition Leader following my discussion with yourself, and I move that the House do now adjourn until Friday, April 13 th.

The Speaker The Speaker Does any Member wish to speak to that? Sounds like Members did not want to come back on the 13th. They don’t want to go home for that long. Do you want to come back sooner? The Premier has indicated that he and the Opposition Leader had a conversation this …

The Speaker The Speaker Friday, the 13th. But it will only be a short si tting. Let me say that now. It will be a short segment to allow us to table some time -sensitive matters and they will be taken up not the following week, but the week after that. And then we …

The Speaker The Speaker I will let you stand for a while for about 20 minutes. Let’s see if you can get your Charlie horse out then. Hon. Wa yne Caines: Thank you, sir.

The Speaker The Speaker You have your 20 minutes. LAHEY CLINIC LAWSUIT DISMISSED BY US COURT Hon. Wayne Caines: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I heard the apology and the statement today by the former Attorney General. I was also forced to consider for a second time the decision dismissing Judge Talwani’s decision, …

The Speaker The Speaker Member, just let me give a little caution to all Members. On Monday, when we had the motion to adjourn, I think I cautioned everybody to try and keep it factual and not personal. And I am going to caution everybody to keep that same tone. I think Monday evening …

The Speaker The Speaker Yes. Hon. Wayne Caines: “36A The enforcement authority may recover, in civil proceedings before the Supreme Court, property which is, or represents, property o btained through unlawful conduct.” The authority must first be designated via an order that may be a public authority. The irregularity, Mr. Speaker? The former Attorney …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Hear, hear.

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Honourable Member. Does any other Member wish to speak? I recognise the Honourable Member from constituency 24. Honourable Member, Scott, you have the floor.

Mr. W. Lawrence Scott Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Listening to the Member earlier today got me thinking. Although it is history to myself, Mr. Speaker, I know that you lived it. What I am talking about is that in this country prior to 1998 the Attorney General was an independent body. The Attorney General’s …

The Speaker The Speaker Member, we have a point of order here the Member from constituency 22. POINT OF ORDER [Misleading]

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Attorney General set out very clearly . . . the Honourable Member i s misleading the House. The Attorney General set out very clearly today that nothing from a criminal matter was used in the civil suit.

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. Member?

Mr. W. Lawrence Scott Okay, Mr. Speaker. Thank you. But the thing is the one thing I did not hear, and one thing that is a fact, Mr. Speaker, because you want us to deal in facts, is that it was under the former Attorney General and the OBA Cabinet that spent $4 million …

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons Point of order, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker The Speaker Point of order. POINT OF ORDER [Misleading]

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons The Honourable Member is misleading the House again. His own Attorney General said today that I think it was $900,000 had been spent. To date.

Mr. W. Lawrence Scott Mr. Speaker, I do not think that that $900,000 includes the hundreds of man hours and overtime of the police investigation that they had . . . no, it all goes . . . the Honourable Member, Grant Gibbons, says that’ s different. No it is not, because it is …

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons Mr. Speaker, point of order.

The Speaker The Speaker Now, let me . . . let me assist both of you Members.

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gi bbons Yes, the Honourable Member is way off track.

The Speaker The Speaker Let me assist both Members. The comments that were made by the former Attorney General this morning, I will read what a hearing involves. “Before the 2017 General Election, Cabinet had aut horised up to $2 million” to be spent on the Cooley. That is what was stated. And it …

Mr. W. Lawrence Scott Okay. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I will carry on. But, Mr. Speaker, regardless of that, there is no escaping . . . and I repeat, there is no escaping the collective responsibility of Cabinet. Unless, Mr. Speaker, a Member of the Cabinet pulls what I cal l a …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Oh-oh. What’s that?

Mr. W. Lawrence Scott And if you know what a Sarah Palin is, you know the title of her last book, called Going Rogue. So, the only way that a Cabinet Member can escape collective responsibility is if an individual or a Cabinet Minister goes rogue. So, if the former Attorney General went rogue, …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Oh, yes he did.

Mr. W. Lawrence Scott And the Honourable Grant Gibbons has said that he was right. Mr. Speaker. But, Mr. Speaker, it is now contradictory because there are some former Cabinet Members who say that they knew nothing about it. And some former Cabinet Members said they knew about it. Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: Point …

The Speaker The Speaker We will take your point order. POINT OF ORDER [Misleading] Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: The Honourable Member is misleading the House. What the Honourable Member said was that when the MLAT letter was linked she was not a ware of that. It was only restricted to the MLAT leakage that …

Mr. W. Lawrence Scott Mr. Speaker, you know what? I am going to move on because I have other points to make, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. W. Lawrence Scott You know what, Mr. Speaker? Even though there were so many headlines, so many stories, so many by -lines about the former A ttorney General and his quest to go after, and passionately go after Lahey, the former Attorney General would not answer a single question, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, …

Mr. W. La wrence Scott And, Mr. Speaker, so ther efore, you know what? You can say . . . you know what? He was mindful to make sure that he was pr otected by the Bar of Parliament or Privilege. But, Mr. Speaker, even in Parliament he would not answer any questions.

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons That’s nonsense!

Mr. W. Lawrence Scott The Honourable Member, Grant Gibbons, says it’s nonsense. I am so glad he said that, because I have it right here, an excerpt from Hansard, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker The Speaker Are you seeking permission to read from the Hansard?

Mr. W. Lawrence Scott I am going to ask your permission to read form the Hansard. All right, Mr. Speaker?

The Speaker The Speaker When was it?

Mr. W. Lawrence Scott This is going back to Speaker Horton . . . and I am going to p araphrase it so I can get to the quote, Mr. Speaker. All right? At that time, the Honourable Derrick Burgess had asked a question, and then Speaker Horton i nstructed Mr. Moniz that he …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member You’re right.

Mr. W. Lawrence Scott Correct me if I am wrong, Mr. Speaker, but if this is the place to ask the questions, if this is the place to get the answers, Mr. Speaker, the Honourable former Attorney General could get up and say right now, It was me.

Mr. W. Lawrence Scott I did it by myself. He could. I am not saying he did, but he could say, It was me; I did it all by myself. I orchestrated this whole rouse to try and get Lahey in trouble, to try and do other things —

The Speaker The Speaker Honourable Member Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: Point of order, Mr. Speaker Bermuda House of Assembly The Speaker: Point of order. Point of order. POINT OF ORDER [Imputing improper motives] Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: He is imputing improper m otives by suggesting that I was using some form of trickery to …

The Speaker The Speaker He did say that you did not say it. He said you could get up and use this opportunity to say that it was you.

Mr. W. Lawrence Scott Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker

The Speaker The Speaker He did not . . . I was listening very clearly to make sure he did not cross t he line of def initely pinning you onto something that you had not said. He said that if that is what you did, you could get up and say it. Yes.

Mr. W. Lawrence Scott But, Mr. Speaker, the Honourable Member could get up and say, It wasn’t me. I had the blessing of Cabinet. He could say, Mr. Speaker, I don’t have the ability to come up with such an idea, or come up with the plan in which it would work so that …

Mr. W. Lawrence Scott No, no, I’m sorry. [Inaudible interjections and general uproar]

The Speaker The Speaker Now you have everybody’s attention. Let’s hear your question now. Let’s hear the question.

Mr. W. Lawrence Scott Mr. Speaker, I have . . . life has taught me that if you want to stay out of trouble, answer the question that is asked. Right?

The Speaker The Speaker What type of questions was she as king?

Mr. W. Lawrence Scott Mr. Speaker, like if . . . I will give . . . no. But the thing is that . . . a question is, Why, Mr. Speaker, if you knew . . . why would we spend so much money if we did not have a clear case, Mr. …

Mr. W. Lawrence Scott And the thing is, Mr. Speaker— [Inaudible interjections]

Mr. W. Lawrence Scott But, Mr. Speaker, the one thing that his constituents said is that when the y asked him a question he had an answer. So how come he can answer those constituents’ questions but he cannot answer our questions here in this House? [Inaudible interjections]

Mr. W. Lawrence Scott Mr. Speaker, if the Honour able Member was to stand up right now I would yield my time, give him the extra time I have so that he can go into depth with the answers and let us know where the documents went; let us know who approved the money; …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Yes! 1868 16 March 2018 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly Mr. W. Lawrence Scott: That . . . Mr. Speaker, . . . I am really . . . and you know I am very . . . I jealously protect my time, Mr. Speaker. But this is …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Honourable Member . Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak? The Honourable Member from constituency 36, Honourable Member Scott. Hon. Michael J. Scott: Thank you, Mr. Speaker .

The Speaker The Speaker You have the floor. Hon. Michael J. Scott: I have a level of call in this country as a member of the Bar, something slightly shorter than the former Attorney General, Trevor Mon-iz. I do not like, after all of these years of being on this earth, being misled. I …

The Speaker The Speaker Just be mindful — Hon. Michael J. Scott: —indicated that with his last question, what was the—

The Speaker The Speaker I was going to say be mindful to refer to Members as “ Honourable Member s” here and not necessarily by their names. Hon. Michael J. Scott: —what was the statutory a uthority by which the then Attorney General, Mr. Moniz, pleaded in matters in a Boston pleading court, the …

The Speaker The Speaker Well, well, I am going to ask you to be a little guided on that because I think some of his statement earlier this morning— Hon. Michael J. Scott: I am not taking his statement, Mr. Speaker!

The Speaker The Speaker —earlier this afternoon— ah, ah, ah, ah, ah— Hon. Michael J. Scott: I am challenging his stat ement!

The Speaker The Speaker Ah, ah —his statement earlier today spoke to s ome of that. So, just be guided how you go around that in that regard. Hon. Michael J. Scott: I am getting around it. I am coming around —

The Speaker The Speaker Just, just be guided — Hon. Michael J. Scott: —the wicket.

The Speaker The Speaker Be guided. Be guided how you g o around it. Hon. Michael J. Scott: Mr. Speaker, Mr. Speaker, I am making a simple analysis — Bermuda House of Assembly The Speaker: Okay — Hon. Michael J. Scott: —of pleadings.

The Speaker The Speaker I am sure you are capable of getting around it. I am just reminding you to get around it rather than step into a hole. Hon. Michael J. Scott: I want to understand. So does The Royal Gazette, so do the people of Bermuda, so does this Government want to …

The Speaker The Speaker Point of order? Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: Point of order, y es.

The Speaker The Speaker Yield, Member — POINT OF ORDER [Misleading] Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: The Member is inadvertently misleading the House. There is a difference between the Lahey case, which was a RICO case in the Federal Courts in the United States. That was not a case pursued in Bermuda under the Proceeds …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Aah! Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: Well, that is exactly what I said this morning. He quoted me and it was absolutely correct. [Inaudible interjection]

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. Be mindful of his co mments —continue. Hon. Michael J. Scott: A broader case . . . So, under the Proceeds of Crime, which is the only way that we can thread this act together becaus e I am not pleading with the former Attorney General to stand …

The Speaker The Speaker We will take your point of order. POINT OF ORDER [Misleading] 1870 16 March 2018 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: The Honourable Member is misleading the House. I s tated quite categorically this morning—and I think you yourself, as Speaker, accepted it —that I …

The Speaker The Speaker That was in fact part of the statement from this morning. Correct. Hon. Michael J. Scott: Mr. Speaker , thank you. Mr. Speaker, I did not say that a moment ago. I said that the reference to Lahey’s bank records as exchanged with Dr. Brown’s bank records . . . …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Oh! Hon. Michael J. Scott: —due process — [Inaudible interjections] Hon. Mich ael J. Scott: —due protections to the cit izens of this country, Dr. Brown or anybody else. We are a country of laws. And if these laws are not observed, the former Attorney General was committing an unlawful …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Yes, he was. Hon. Michael J. Scott: —breaching our constitutional rights. And that is the charge that you stand charged with today until it is made absolutely clear beyond not this court but the court of the judiciary. These things are very important and we are duty bound, Mr. Speaker, …

The Speaker The Speaker Yes— Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: He is —

The Speaker The Speaker Point of order? POINT OF ORDER [Misleading] Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: Point of order, yes. He is mi sleading the House again. You know, at the time when the new Attorney General was appointed I invited her to speak to me at any time, and I was open. But Cooley …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you for the information. Member, continue. Hon. Michael J. Scott: Mr. Speak er, there was not a . . . after all of this . . . after the dismissal, after the questions in the House last Wednesday and after the personal explanation today, the question that any la …

The Speaker The Speaker Point of order. We will take your point of order. POINT OF ORDER [Misleading] Hon. Tre vor G. Moniz: The Honourable Member is misleading the House. Cooley wrote the opinion. How would they say they did not have the opinion? It is ridiculous.

The Speaker The Speaker Member. Hon. Michael J. Scott: Before Cooley were instructed as the Shadow . . . as the Minister for National Secur ity indicated, any reasonable, skilful, competent Attorney General would have worked out . . . because the Bermuda evidence was what the case was based on, going to either …

Mr. Speaker . The Speaker Yes, we will take your point of order. POINT OF ORDER Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: That is very dishonest of the Member. Judge Talwani dismissed the case on th e technical ground of the lack of domestic damage. That was all. She actually said there was basis for criminal charges …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. Hon. Michael J. Scott: No, she did not. This is what Judge—

The Speaker The Speaker Just be mindful — Hon. Michael J. Scott: —Talwani said —

The Speaker The Speaker —of the interjections. Hon. Michael J. Scott: This is what Judge Talwani said under the standard of review, under the standard of her review, a motion under Rule 12(b)(6) of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. This is the ratio d ecidendi of her case—not the opinion, not the obiter …

The Speaker The Speaker Three minutes. Hon. Michael J. Scott: —evidence appeared in the Boston pleadings, in the Lahey suit? And we will not get the answer to this. But I am obliged to share with the House and with you, Mr. Speaker, and the people of Bermuda that the only way that this …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you , Honourable Member . Does any other Honourable Member wish to speak? I recognise the Honourable Member from— the Honourable Deputy Speaker. Honourable Deputy Speaker, you have the floor. Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . Mr. Speaker, I guess it puzzles me somewhat to …

The Speaker The Speaker Go ahead. Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: —from an interview, he said, “Unless you have an open tender, that is the definition of corruption.” Several Hon. Members: Oh! Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: That was the former Attorney General Trevor Moniz.

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Whoa! No way! Hon. Derrick V. Burg ess, Sr.: Yes, it is in the papers. But, that did not happen down at the airport. It did not happen with the lawyers that represented Bermuda with the Lahey case. No, it did not happen there. It did not happen for the …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Don’t worry about overrun. Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: Oh, yeah, no overruns because, you know . . . Heritage Wharf. The i m-provements for Heritage Wharf was 25 per cent over budget —$6 million!

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Who was the Minister? Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: Oh, the Honourable Attorney General Trevor Moniz was the Minister. But there was no special audit. But had that been one of us—special audit. Special audit! You see the two types of treatment that pervades this country? And some of them …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Bermuda sty le. Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: And any time we give a contract, the PLP gives a contract, to a black person it is corruption or scandal. That is the way the see us, Mr. Speaker . Mr. Speaker, they spent over $1.5 million on their Commission of …

The Speaker The Speaker Deputy , I would like to thank you for your contribution— [No audio]

The Speaker The Speaker I now recognise the Honourable Member from constituency 29. Honourable Member De Silva, you have your 20 minutes. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Thank you, Mr. Speaker .

The Speaker The Speaker I do not know if you will use them all — we will see— Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Okay, I will try to be as eff icient as I can.

The Speaker The Speaker All right. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: For both you and I, Mr. Speaker .

The Speaker The Speaker Go ahead. 1876 16 March 2018 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Mr. Speaker, we had a personal explanation today. We know that the Lahey lawsuit has been in the news heavily over the past several weeks. And it seems like the main …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Yes. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Where did the information come from? The former Attorney General had an o pportunity today when you gave him the privilege to spend all day putting that document together, Mr. Speaker —

The Speaker The Speaker We took the right time. We put it at the right time. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: We did not hear anything. We did not hear anything about the most important thing in this whole case. And that is, where did the information come from? We did not hear …

The Speaker The Speaker As long as you ask permission and I grant it. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: And with your permission I would like to—

The Speaker The Speaker Sure. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: —use it for my 20 minutes, Mr. Speaker . And in his second paragraph, the Honourable Member stated, “ I will not stand idly by while my inte grity . . . is undermined. ” Wow! Wow, Mr. Speaker . Well, are we …

The Speaker The Speaker Yes, it has to be factual. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: You know we are going to be very careful —

The Speaker The Speaker Be factual, be factual. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: —because you know it was . . . some words were uttered in the last couple of weeks about vendettas and personal vendettas and politics and things like that. But we are not going to talk about that tonight. But, …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Aah! Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: I do not hear anybody knocking him for that. I do not hear anybody asking him about how much he donates to the OBA or the UBP.

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons Oh, are we getting personal now? [Inaudible interjections] Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: I do not hear anybody questioning John Swan’s net worth. He was Premier for 13 years. You know . . . See the thing is . . . see us folk that have to start from …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Because he did not have a court order. [Inaudible interjection] Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Oh, because he did not have a court order. Well, is that operating a little ou tside of one’s remit?

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Yes. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: I am not going to say it is illegal, but maybe that is true, too. I do not see a point of order coming on that. [Inaudible interjections] Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Now, one, two, three, four, in the fifth paragraph …

The Speaker The Speaker Yes, that would not be too nice. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: No. I am not going to say it’s a lie. 1878 16 March 2018 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly But maybe the Honourable Member can again jump up and give me a point of clarification. …

Some Hon. Members Some Hon. Members Resign. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Resign. I did not hear of any resignation.

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Not one. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: So it is my . . . I contend, Mr. Speaker, that everyone in that Cabinet agreed to this court case, agreed to this witch hunt. Now, t he Honourable former Attorney General also said “[I] acted on the basis of legal …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Mr. Speaker, this is getting personal. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: No, it’s not. No it’s not. I know my line and length. I know my line and length very well. Mr. Speaker —

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons Point of order, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker The Speaker Go ahead. POINT OF ORDER [Imputing improper motive ]

Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons I am sitting here listening very patiently. The Honourable Member clearly is imputing improper motives. He is suggesting illegal activity. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Well, Mr. Speaker, I tell you what, I tell you what . . . I will tell you what —

The Speaker The Speaker You know the House is not on— Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Got it; got it, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker The Speaker And I think last week you were very good. Monday evening you were very good. You stayed off for two nights. Just go back thick ice. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Mr. Speaker, I did not make a statement. And I have been asking, as ever yone has been …

The Speaker The Speaker Thirty -five seconds. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Thirty -five seconds, Mr. Speaker! What? Well, I tell you what. Let me read something from Hansard for you, Mr. Speaker, on my way out. The Honourable Member said, and I will quote (in r esponse to a third parliamentary question) …

Some Hon. Members Some Hon. Members Aah! Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: I myself. So, Mr. Speaker, I will finish on this note. Where is the infor mation coming from, former Attorney General? Where? 6 Official Hansard Report , 10 March 2017, p. 1006 The Speaker: Thank you, Honourable Member. Does any other Member wish …

The Speaker The Speaker I am going to advise, like I advised everybody — [Inaudible interjections and general uproar ] Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: I am going no further than that, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker The Speaker I am going to advise like I advised ev erybody else, keep it on a certain level — Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: I am going no further than that.

The Speaker The Speaker —line and length. Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: But, you know, I would have thought that the Government would be concerned with upholding the standards of transparency and good governance in Bermuda. This is a time when we are going through all sorts of anti -corruption measures, we are going through …

The Speaker The Speaker Point of order. POINT OF ORDER [Imputing improper motives ] Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: No one ever made that statement on this side of the House, ever. That is strictly imputing improper motives.

The Speaker The Speaker Continue on. Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: Thank you. Well that is . . . you know, with my respect, that is exactly the same as saying, How did you get this information? Not saying if the information is correct. Hon. Wayne Caines: Point of order. POINT OF ORDER Hon. Wayn …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Member . Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: Well, with all due respect, there were Members asking How did you get this i nformation? It may not have been that Member. But what they should be concerned with is the substance of the allegation. So let’s go back to that …

The Speaker The Speaker We have a point of order. Hon. E. David Burt: Point of order, Mr. Speaker. POINT OF ORDER [Misleadin g] Hon. E. David Burt: The Honourable Member is mi sleading the House. And the reason why he is misleading the House is he just told this House that he did …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Whoa! Hon. E. David Burt: That is the challenge, Mr. Speaker. He is misleading the House because he conducted himself unlawfully.

The Speaker The Speaker As I have tried to say for the last couple of evenings, let’s try to make it factual. If there are allegations they should be supported. Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: Mr. Speaker, I would say again that that allegation is not correct. Mr. Speaker, there is nothing more I can …

The Speaker The Speaker Caught me off guard. B ermuda House of Assembly I wasn’t expec ting you to finish. But you did.

Mr. Premier. Hon. E. David Burt premier Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker The Speaker Would you like to take your time now? Hon . E. David Burt: I would like to take my 20 minutes now, if I could, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker The Speaker I think we can arrange that. I will reset the clock. Hon. E. David Burt: Mr. Speaker, as I said when I began, the former Attorney General just got up and gave us a poor excuse for his illegal activity in the action of the Office of Attorney General. And …

I think we can arrange that. I will reset
the clock.
Hon. E. David Burt: Mr. Speaker, as I said when I
began, the former Attorney General just got up and
gave us a poor excuse for his illegal activity in the action of the Office of Attorney General. And the fact is, Mr. Speaker, that before I begin, I think it is very i mportant, because while we are here discussing very
important matters of abuse of power of high office of
state, there are two families that are mourning, Mr. Speaker. So I would like to extend condolences on behalf of all Honourable Members to the families of the two persons who passed recently in a road traffic
accident, recognising the fact that we do have a lot of
work to do on that particular issue. And we will be di scussing that in our next session.
That much being said, Mr. Speaker, and I am
happy that the former Opposition Leader has returned to her seat, the Honourable Patricia Gordon- Pamplin,
because she gave an interview to a media organis ation today and she said, and I quote, Mr. Speaker, “Like it or not I really don’t care what people think about me but I can tell you that I will always stand with my integrity and I will always stand on principle.” End quote.
Mr. Speaker, the question that I have for that
Honourable Member is whether or not she will stand on principle and ask her former Attorney General to resign after my presentation today, Mr. Speaker. B ecause it is very simple, at issue, Mr. Speaker, is, Did
the former Attorney General abuse his powers under
the law? Did he?
That is the only question that should be
asked, because as much as this wonderful former A ttorney General wants to talk about information that may or may not exist, the fact is that we have this
thing called a constitution. We have this thing called
rule of law. And you cannot get up and wax lyrically about AML and ATF and international standards if, when you are in the highest legal office in the land, you don’ t feel like following those standards, Mr.
Speaker.

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Ooh! [ Desk thumping] Hon. E. David Burt: You don’t get to pick and choose when you follow the standards.

The Speaker The Speaker Honourable Members. Members! Hon. E. David Burt: Now, Mr. Speaker, there is an old common law affect. And it is called “misconduct in public office.” And it goes back to a 13th century of English law. And it is what happens when people abuse their power, Mr. Speaker. And let …

The Speaker The Speaker Be factual. Hon. E. David Burt: Yes, Mr. Speaker?

The Speaker The Speaker Be factual. Hon. E. David Burt: I will, Mr. Speaker. I promise you I will keep it incredibly factual. Because unlike the comments from the former Attorney General . . . he will not get up right now and say that he obtained a court order to access the gov-ernment …

The Speaker The Speaker Ah, a point of order? We will take your point of order. POINT OF ORDER [Misleading] Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: The Honourable Member is misleading t he H ouse. T hat is not t he case.

The Speaker The Speaker I cautioned you to be factual. So, I am just going to caution you again. Be factual. Hon. E. David Burt: Mr. Speaker, I am very happy to remain factual, because I will refer to the Proceeds of Crime Act, section 40, which was read by Honourable Members earlier. And …

The Speaker The Speaker Members! Members! If you want me to hear him, I need to have a quiet room so I can listen to the Member. Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It says, “ Disclosure of information by Gover nment Departments ” “[40 (1) ] Subject to subsection (4), the …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member That’s right! Hon. E. David Burt: And, Mr. Speaker, after all of that, the Honourable former Attorney General will sit in his seat and mouth platitudes. He should be ashamed of himself! An Hon. Mem ber: Hear, hear. Hon. E. David Burt: Because the fact is that he has dishonoured …

The Speaker The Speaker Point of order. What is your point of order? POINT OF ORDER [Imputi ng improper motives ] Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: He is imputing improper m otives here, yet again, saying I have done illegal acts. There is absolutely no proof, and I deny that to be the case. I …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Prove it! Hon. Trevor G . Moniz: No, no, you prove it.

The Speaker The Speaker All right, Members, Members. Again, I remind you to be factual and keep it very factual on items that you can sustain the information that you are bringing to Parliament. Hon. E. David Burt: Mr. Speaker, I thank you very much, because the question I have . . . real …

The Speaker The Speaker Eleven minutes. Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you, very much, Mr. Speaker. Because, as I said, Mr. Speaker, the issue of misconduct in public office is a serious one. And the former Attorney General existed in a high office of state. He kept his Cabinet in the dark, while he …

The Speaker The Speaker State your point of order. POINT OF ORDER [Misleading] Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: This Member is again and again and repeatedly mislead ing the House. That is not the case. I have said that is not the case repeatedly.

The Speaker The Speaker Be mindful of what is — Hon. E. David Burt: Mr. Speaker —

The Speaker The Speaker —stated in his statement. Hon. E. David Burt: —I will be completely and perfectly mindf ul.

The Speaker The Speaker Yes. Hon. E. David Burt: But I will tell the House, and the former Attorney General can deny it as much as he wants. He knows that he gave his private lawyers access to Bermuda Police Service investigators. He knows that that information was used to file civil suits. He …

The Speaker The Speaker What is your point of order? POINT OF ORDER Hon. Jeanne J. Atherden: If I remember clearly, I am sure you said to everyone who would speak that they should be saying something that they can prove and state. I don’t believe that Member can say that. Hon. E. David …

Some Hon. Members Some Hon. Members Ooh! Hon. E. David Burt: And what the former Attorney General said is, “Pursuant to section 26 of the Pr oceeds of Crime Amendment Act, I am to exercise the powers and perform the functions of the enforcement authority for the pur poses of civil recovery procee dings issued under …

The Speaker The Speaker Members! Members! Members. Hon. E. David Burt: Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker The Speaker I would also actually caution you if you can have that and table it here for us. Hon. E. David Burt: I will be perfectly happy to give that to you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker The Speaker You can table it . . . you can table it. Hon. E. David Burt: Mr. Speaker, as an Honourable Member I will never, ever, ever , mislead this House, Mr. Speaker. I will go from the information of which we have. And the facts are, Mr. Speaker, that the …

The Speaker The Speaker Members, Members, that brings us to the close of this evening, and also to the close of this session. I would like to remind you that we will recess now until the 13th of April. And before I do close, there were two Members who actually did give indication that …

The Speaker The Speaker With that, Members, enjoy your time away. And on that same note, I would ask Members to reflect on Standing Order 11(5), and I am going to read it: “(5) (i) Every Member is bound to attend the meetings of the House and its committees, unless notice of leave of …

March 16, 2018

Debate Transcript