May 19, 2017

Minister?

1692 19 May 2017 Official Hansard Report

Bermuda House of Assembly Hon. E. T. (Bob) Richards: The names . . . they . . . I
think the contract was awarded to Bermuda Information Technology Services. If there are other com-panies I do not know about them, because I think that that is what the Honourable Member is looking for.

Yes, Minister.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon- Pamplin: It is my understanding, Mr. Speaker, t hat the conducting of any
marriages would be in accordance with the existing
legislation . So the answer, in the absence of having
confirmation from the Attorney General’s Chambers . .
. I believe that to be the correct answer. I am not a
lawyer, and I do not wish to misspeak.

The Honourable Minister
would be aware that the ruling set out very, very clearly what the position was on the law , and it should have
taken five minutes for the Attorney General’s Cham-bers to be able to advise that marriages would be en-tirely permissible as at that stage. Why is that taking
so long? The judgment was two weeks ago.

Minister.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, Mr.
Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, in response, I cannot speak for
the flow of work within the Attorney General’s Cham-bers. I am aware of the content of the judgment that was handed down by the learned judge; however, with that said, as I indicated, I am not a lawyer and I do not
wish to misspeak. So I would rather take proper legal
advice with respect to providing answers to that ques-tion.

Minister.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Mr. Speaker, I
actually was the one who made the statement that the Government was not going to appeal the ruling based
on . . . and that was based on the information that was
shared with me from the legal team. So I know that that has been done.
In terms of the amendments that may have
been suggested and that might be required, I have
said I have to take guidance and information. I cannot
speak to the workflow that exists in the offices and in the chambers of the Attorney General.

No, that is all right. If you cannot a nswer that, you can get that. You know, we would not necessarily expect that you would have that ki nd of
detail. But, certainly, you can get it and get it to the Honourable Member.
Yes, MP De Silva, from constituency 29.

Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Minister, you said you have
received 175 applications, how many have been a pproved?

Minister.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, Mr.
Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, over the past 12 months, the
Chief Immigration [Officer] has rendered a decision on
23 civil penalties. Of this number, 2 resulted in civil penalties being levied; 12 resulted in no further action, no case to answer due to insufficient evidence; and 9
resulted in no civil penalty being levied to employers.
So, there are 2 actual penalties that have been levied
and the money charged.

Yes. In light of the fact that two
employers have been fined, would the Minister co nclude that she has a high level of confidence that employers are adhering fully to immigration legislation and policy with respect to work permits?

1694 19 May 2017 Official Hansard Report

Bermuda House of Assembly The Speaker: Minister.

Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin : That question
may be a quantum leap. I do not have the empirical
evidence, and I do not wish to misspeak.

Minister.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, Mr.
Speaker.
And I thank the Honourable Member for that
question because you will note that in the last session
we had hoped that it would be able to be tabled and ready by the end of April. However, the National
Training Plan will be laid before this Honourable
House in this current session.

Minister.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon- Pamplin: Mr. Speaker, it is
an embarrassment to me because when I committed that I would table the Plan, it was intended that it
would be ready for tabling. It has been delayed. My understanding is that there has also been a change of membership in the Board, and there was some lack of continuity that needed to be picked up on in order to
ensure that the final product is as it ought to be. Ho wever, it will be tabled as soon as possible.

Mr. Speaker, my supplementary for the Honourable Minister is that the National
Training Plan was put forth as a blueprint for the next five years of what would be needed as employment in
Bermuda. We have now passed into the fourth year since the first one was released. Would the Honour able Minister agree that the data that was used for that report is now approaching obsolete, or needs to be updated before we can even look at coming up with
the next part?

Minister.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, Mr.
Speaker, and I appreciate that question because that is precisely the issue.
In fact, the Plan has now been extended to
being a 10- year Plan and the first few years of that
had, in fact, expired. Some of the information that had
been included in that Plan was reflecting on the prev ious available statistical data that had come out of the


Bermuda House of Assembly Department of Statistics , and that was as of 2014, and
that was the precise reason why it was determined
that it was inappropriate to table it exactly as it is. It is important to have updated information and an ongoing . . . something that is dynamic and reliable for the
general public.

Yes.
Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Minister, in light of what
you just said with the updated statistical information
that you have received, will you confirm that this i ncludes the 2,000 additional people that have now found themselves amongst the [unemployed] in Bermuda, so, therefore, when this report was laid in 2013,
we estimated that there were 2,000 jobs that the OBA
were going to create because we had that amount of people out of work —

Minister.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon- Pamplin: The Plan, Part 1,
was effectively identifying where the challenges were.
Part 2 was identifying the solutions and how we move forward with the solutions to those plans. The information that would have been included in Part 1, to the
extent that it needs to be updated for Part 2, it certai nly will do. But what we wanted to ensure is that all of
the . . . the roadmap to the various industries, some of
which was actually left out of the edited Plan that
came through, that all of that information is dynamic and is as up- to-date and accurate as possible.

Yes.

Hon. Zane J. S. De Silv a: Minister, you just said that
Part 2 was identifying solutions . Therefore, if Part 2
was identifying solutions, and we have an additional
2,000 people out of work, are those solutions that were identified . . . now you have to go back and r elook at those solutions and come up with new ones?

Hon. Patricia J. Gordon- Pamplin: No, I believe that
the solutions that have been identified are still appr opriate solutions. Because you have more people does
not necessarily say you need a different solution; you
just need to accelerate what it is that you have on offer.

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate
the Minister’s candour in saying that this has become
a national embarrassment. It reminds me, if I may, just
even with respect to the Operation Ceasefire. Same
thing —three years and nobody has seen the plan. [It
was] highly touted before the elections.
Is the Minister aware that the original data i nformation, studies that inform the first report , that that
information . . . that body of information of statistics
and data was itself somewhat outdated. So is she
aware that we have now compounded the problem in terms of getting the necessary research to inform Part 2, which has still not been delivered?

Minister.

Hon. Patricia J. Gordon- Pamp
lin: I am certainly not
aware of the genesis of the timing of the information to
which the Honourable Member refers. But as we have committed, we will try and have the most updated
1696 19 May 2017 Official Hansard Report

Bermuda House of Assembly document that will be tabled as soon as it is completed.

Minister.

Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Mr. Speaker, I
believe that the committee has worked assiduously.
They have explored, they have torn apart, they have
turned upside down, inside out, to try to come up with
what is appropriate. We have committed now to ge tting a document that will be tabled this session and I believe that the Honourable Member will be pleased with the outcome.

Minister.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Yes. Thank you,
Mr. Speaker. And I appreciate that question.
To enhance the original Plan, appendices are
being added to provide individuals interested in a particular sector with ease of reference in determining the opportunities available to them and the pathway to the career of their choice. These appendices will ultimat ely be converted into brochures to be able to suppl ement the Plan itself.
So if you are interested in one particular i ndustry and not wanting to read through the entire Plan, you will be able to hone in on documentation and brochures that will focus on the industry in which you might be particularly interested.

Minister.

Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Thank yo u very much, Mr.
Speaker.
The name of the company is Cimota Incorporated. In answer to the following question, the ratio of
Bermudians versus non- Bermudians, I cannot give a
complete answer as yet because the work is not fi nished. There are many local com panies who are doing
work on there, so I do not know the exact numbers from the local companies that are doing the work. But
the award contract to Cimota Incorporated does have
seven employees, specialists, who came here.

Yes.

Hon. E. David Burt: Mr. Speaker, in this project r egarding this company and the contract which was
awarded to a Canadian company, was there any consideration insofar as ensuring that Bermudians were
trained in the process to see if there was any type of future- type work that they could take it on?

The Spe aker: Minister.

Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Yes, I appreciate that
question. That is something that I had requested as
well. It would be nice to have local companies taking a look at this kind of work that needed to be done. Whether or not that is happening, I can find out, but I
do not know. It is something that I did request.

Okay. Then Minister, you know, next
week you come back with the answer to t hat.
The Chair will recognise the Learned Member
from constituency 36.

SUPPLEMENTARY
Hon. Michael J. Scott: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Would the Honourable Public Works Minister
undertake to provide to the House the underlying
company structure of this company he has declared to the House to be a Canadian company ? Would he pr ovide the underlying company structure to indicate that
this company is a lawfully operating local company
with only Canadian shareholders to this House so that we understand the structure of this company that is operating in our jurisdiction as a foreign company?

Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Mr. Speaker, I am a bit
confused. It is a Canadian company.

Okay. Then answer that. Let him know
it is a Canadian company. That is what I thought you
said.

Hon. Michael J. Scott: Yes, I thought that too. I think
we all did. But like the airport, just like AirportCo, it is a
Canadian- owned company, 100 per cent . But I want
to have it confirmed to the House that its underlying
company structure has been applied for and regi stered within the companies register so that we understand that this company is a local com pany owned
100 per cent by Canadians. So I am looking at the
underlying governance of this —

The corporate structure of the company. If one wants to . . . yes, if one wants to know that, I
think that will need to be something that will be a written question.

Hon. Michael J. Scott: All right.
The S p
eaker: If you want to bring that question, b ecause that is a long question, Honourable Member.
So you might want to do that, you know, at the next meeting.

Hon. Michael J. Scott: Yes.

1698 19 May 2017 Official Hansard Report

Bermuda House of Assembly The Speaker: Yes, the Chair recognises MP De Silva.

SUPPLEMENTARIES

Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Minister, you mentioned specialised work.
Can you describe this specialised work for us please?

Minister.
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Well, not entirely. I am not
an engineer. But I do rely on my engineers to ensure
that when they are looking at this work, when they
make recommendations to us, they are the specialised people. There are approximately 12 different kinds of limestone, and with the limestone that we do
have in Bermuda, Mr. Speaker, there are varying
ways to remediate what we see as far as the erosion is concerned. Cimota is a company that goes around
the world doing this type of work, and I rely heavily on
our engineers and their expertise to make the recom-mendation.
It is a bit of a science. There are compression
rods and the like required. That particular project r equires swinging from a harness in order to go back
and forth to read the different measures of cracks, and the like, within the limestone. But, again, I am not an
engineer, but I can rely on the . . . I know this is a
specialised work.

If you want . . . Honourable Members,
you are getting into the scope of work. I mean, scope
of work is a huge . . . so, if y ou liked it, then come
back next week and ask the question that can be wri tten and provided. That would be done. If you need to know, —

Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: The only reason I ask that,
Mr. Speaker, is because— The Speaker: I don’t want to stop you.
Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: —the Minister —

Honourable Member, I do not need to
know. You asked for a scope of work. A scope of work
requires that one give a proper written answer. So if
you would like that, then you can bring that question which can be written. Thank you.
Yes.

Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Let me just add that this is a public tender, so
you know, the scope of work that was required is wit hin that tender. But certainly, if he is looking for more
technical information we can certainly send a writ-ten—

Minister.
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Certainly. Thank you, Mr.
Speaker.
These are not what I would consider to be
actual renovations. This is more remedial work. There
was mould and the likes within the building. There
were a few cracks that were seen as well, so a con-tractor was brought in, Thomas Enterprise, to address the painting and some of other workings, but we used our own civil servants to do much of the work as well.

Minister.
Hon. L. Craig Cannoni er: Yes. Thank you, Mr.
Speaker.
It is an array of work. Some of the work . . .
obviously in roadworks there are issues that come up that are not scheduled just by the mere nature that it
is “roadworks.” Under this particular roadworks area,
there is, my goodness, at least 60, 70, maybe more
than that, different kinds of work. Some are scheduled and other things are to remediate things that happen, accidents and the like, on the roads. So it cannot all be scheduled.

Minister.
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Certainly not. As I said
already, much of the work is scheduled work. The
other works that were required were works that were
due to any number of reasons, whether it be weather, accidents, and the like, that need to be addressed. But certainly not because of America’s Cup. If they
would look at the Budget Book they will see the
amount of roads that we said we would pave. W e
looked and we are doing that. So all these things have nothing to do with the fact that . . . from North Shore to
South Shore, from east to west, roads were paved.

All right. Thank you, Minister.
The rest are all written responses. Mr. Weeks,
do you have your response? Yes.

QUESTION: KILOMETERS OF PUBLIC
ROADS PAVED 2011/12 TO DATE

1. Can the Honourable Minister please i nform this Honourable House of the nu mber of kilometers of Public Roads that
have been paved for fiscal years 2011/12,
1700 19 May 2017 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda Hous e of Assembly 2012/13, 2013/14, 2014/15, 2015/16,
2016/17 and 2017/18 to date?

Mr. Rabain, you have your written r esponse? Yes.
QUESTIONS: PUBLIC SCHOOLS —FURTHER
EDUCATION AWARDS, SUSPENSIONS, WI -FI
1.Will t
he Honourable Minister please pr ovide the number of Further Education
Awards, Teacher Training Awards andMature Student Awards issued for the fiscal years 2011/12, 2012/13, 2013/14,
2014/15, 2015/16 and 2016/17?
2.Will t
he Honourable Minister please pr ovide the number of suspensions and inschool suspensions for school years
2011/12, 2012/13, 2013/14, 2014/15,
2015/16 and 2016 to present in our publicschools listed by Primary, Middle andHigh schools including names of schools?
3.Will t
he Honourable Minister please pr ovide and list which public schools havecomputer labs including number of co mputers in each lab and which publicschools have Wi -Fi services within the
school listed by Primary, Middle and High
Schools including names of Schools?

Mr. Weeks, you have your response
from Mr. Simons? V ery good.
QUESTION: PUBLIC SCHOOL STUDENT
STATISTICS 2011 –2016
1.Will
the Honourable Minister please list
the schools and provide the total number
of students that graduated from Public
Primary Schools for the years 2010, 2011,
2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016; the totalnumber of students that entered PublicMiddle Schools for the years 2010, 2011,2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016 and the t otal number of students that entered Public
High schools for the years 2013, 2014,
2015 and 2016?
The Speake
r: We now move to the—
[Inaudibl
e interjection]
The Sp
eaker: No, no. We have Ministerial Stat ements first.
The first Ministerial Statement came from Dr.
Gibbons, and we have a question from the Honour a-ble Member from constituency 33. You have a question.

Mr. Speaker, could the
Honourable Member inform this House what percentage of tickets have been sold for the America’s Cup to
date?
The Speake
r: Yes, Minister.
The Ho
n. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons: Yes. Thank you, Mr.
Speaker.
I am not sure quite what the Honourable
Member is referring to when he says “the percentage of tickets sold to date.” There are any number of di fferent types of tickets you can get. It could be the
Grandstand. It could be the Event Village. So, maybe I
am missing it, but I do not know quite where he is g oing here.
The Speake
r: All right. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr.
Speaker.
Obviously, I do not have that up- to-date i nformation, but I know they were fairly pleased with the
extent of ticket sales as it went along. There were up-dates that were coming ever since January on this.
But I do not know at this particular point what the per-centage of tickets sold is because, as I said, it is going to vary by category. It could be Event Village. I know, for example, that the Dark ’n Stormy Bar was very
popular and the Grandstand was very popular and was sold out on certain days. As you would expect,
midweek is probably a little slower, but the weekends
(particularly during finals and the challenge matches) was very popular indeed. But I do not, off the top of
my head, have that information. Thank you.
The Speake
r: Thank you.


Bermuda House of Assembly Yes. MP Simmons.

Mr. Speaker, that is
a moving target right now, but I can undertake to bring
that information back. There are still some tickets being purchased. We are talking about the access to the Event Village, primarily. Those are not very expensive tickets, as you know. They are discounted by some 50 per cent. But I will undertake this to see if we can get that information as well. There ar e still tickets I
think being purchased perhaps by the Government to make sure that various people, particularly on some of the priority lists, have tickets.

[Inaudible interjection]

Yes, if you would like to, we can do
that.

1702 19 May 2017 Official Hansard Report

Bermuda House of Assembly Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, at this point in time, Government
has not purchased any tickets for the event. Honour able Members of this Chamber and others on the precedence list will know that invitations were sent out for
various events through the course. We are waiting for
Members to respond so we can put together the inv itation list.
Government will be hosting people ( obviously,
it is important to do through this event ), so we will
have an on- water experience. We will also use Moresby House for some entertainment, but we have not purchased any tickets at this point in time. But we are
looking forward to give access to as many Members
of the Legislature as we can, so the sooner that Mem-bers get back then we can deal with it going forward.

Thank you, Mr.
Speaker. I am actually pleased to answer that.
The protocol is going to be that any established vendors that have been there up to this point,
vegetable stands and others, will not have any pro blems with respect to the Restricted Marketing Order. It is after May 15
th when the Restricted Marketing Order
kicks in. There is nothing preventing vendors (also
new vendors) from getting a licence from the BEDC
[Bermuda Economic Development Corporation] , which
they are required to get anyway under the Vending
Act, and then make application to the ACEA . And I
think the BEDC will facilitate that if they wish to vend . . . and this is only in public places. That is what the
Restricted Marketing Order is looking at.
So, the answer is, it is not . . . well, it is not a
blanket prevention. Application can be made. But I
think it is important for Members to under stand that
we also have legislation in place under the Vending Act where people have to get a licence to vend in any case. So, the Honourable Member’s question is, es-tablished vendors who have been there all along before May 15
th, there should be no problem. Thank you.

Thank you.
The Chair will recognise the Leader of the
Opposition.

SUPPLEMENTARIES

Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you very much, Mr.
Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, this is a supplementary question
to the Honourable Minister responsible for Economic
Development. Will the Honourable Minister respons ible for Economic Development please inform this
Honourable House why he has not complied with the Statutory Instruments Act and tabled the regulations in this House?

Supplementary for the Minister.
Minister, who will be charged with removing
anyone who that violates this order? You mentioned
earlier that it falls under the Vending Act . As we know,
under the Vending Act there were supposed to be
people assigned to go out and check. And to date, I do not think there has been anyone who has been assigned to go and check that there are illegal ven-dors around. So who will be charged with removing these people?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, I
think this Honourable Member should know that the
Vending Act has been in place for some time. The
Restricted Marketing Order is a separate piece of legislation. All I was trying to do was make Honourable Members aware that if you are going to be doing street vending, or vending, you need a licence under the Vending Act.
The Restricted Marketing Order we are talking
about , right, is a separate order and it has an offence
in there and I presume that if there was a complaint it would go to the po lice.

Mr. Speaker, can the Minister please tell us how much of that exclusive market-ing zone . . . what does that represent in terms of the
size, the amount of Bermudian real estate that has
been preserved for the America’s Cup and its ap-proved vendors? I am talking about 7 per cent or 8 per
cent of Bermuda’s total land mass, it is just amazing.
You know, if transposing this to the US it would be like
half a state, New York State, for example.

Thank you, Mr.
Speaker. I think the Honourable Member is a little bit over the top there. Let me just make sure the Honourable Member understands what we are talking about
here.
The Restricted Marketing Order’s specific
purpose is to prevent signs and advertising, which actually is also covered to some degree under the
Advertisements [Regulation] Act 1911. But the R estricted Marketing Order is there to basically make
sure that sponsors and others , who have paid money
for sponsorship, and the America’s Cup Event A uthority, have the ability to be able to have that spo nsorship recognised without competing sponsors who may w ish to put up their own signs, flags, what have
you. This is standard practice for international sporting events of this type. You cannot walk into the Oly mpics, if Coca -Cola is sponsoring it, and hold up a
Pepsi banner. That is the main concern here.
The issue was particularly sensitive for the
America’s Cup Event Authority because in San Fran-cisco there was quite a bit of what is referred to as “ambush” marketing. For example, during the Event there was actually one of these planes with the banner behind it that actually swooped in over San Francisco Bay with a non- America’s Cup sponsor to try
and exploit the Event and get the exposure, even though they were not an official sponsor. So, interna-tional sporting events, whether it is World Cup, Olympics, what have you . . . you cannot walk into a US
Golf Open and display something which is not related to the sponsors who are involved with that particular event. So that is the principal reason for this.
The other issue is, of course, we have Bermudian vendors w ho are, effectively, contracted by
the America’s Cup Event Authority in the Village and
elsewhere. I think they will be paying a certain concession as a consequence of being an established vendor for the America’s Cup Event Authority. They obviously have the right to not be sort of competed against directly either. So these are some of the issues we deal with.
Mr. Speaker, this is not a county game. This is inter-national , a very large sporting event. There are issues
related to marketing, to security, and lots of other i ssues which I think we have to recognise need to be complied with. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

[Inaudible interjections]

Right. I will recognise the Leader of the
Opposition.

QUESTION 1: SUPPLEMENTAL AGREEMENT
BETWEEN THE HOTELCO BERMUDA HOLDINGS
LTD AND GOVERNMENT OF BERMUDA

1704 19 May 2017 Official Hansard Report

Bermuda House of Assembly Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you very much, Mr.
Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, in respect to the Statement that
the Honourable Minister gave, can the Honourable
Minister please confirm that any and all work presentl y
underway at the St. George’s site is being done by Public Works and is taxpayer funded?

Thank you, Mr.
Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I am not sure of the extent of all
the work underway. Clearly, there are issues of mov-ing the road, there are other issues related to drilling wells. The issues that have been identified in the Statement here, by and large, are underway. I do not know as of today or yesterday whether there is any work actually being done by the Hotelco Group or not,
but . . . Hang on a second. Excuse me, Mr. Speaker.

Yes. The Chair will recognise the
Works Minister then.

Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I can add some salt to this question. As far as
the actual road is concerned, this is a public road that
will lead through the property through to Fort St. Catherine and the restaurant that is there. It will be Public Works that is taking on that work to complete that road. It is a public road.

Your question. Okay. MP De Silva, you
have a question.

QUESTION 1: SUPPLEMENTAL AGREEMENT
BETWEEN THE HOTELCO BERMUDA HOLDINGS
LTD AND GOVERNMENT OF BERMUDA
Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Minister, this supplementary agreement and
some of the details that you have brought here today,
is this because the casino fees were too high and this was the only way that the project would press for-ward?

Yes.

SUPPLEMENTARIES

Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: So, what you are saying to
us, Minister, is that you had confirmed a few weeks
ago that you talked to all the casino operators, includ-ing Hotelco Group, and they did not have a problem with the fees , and of course we understood subs equent that they did have a problem with the fees, don’t
you find it rather coincidental that the concessions you have given today add up $2.7 million, which is almost the same amount as the casino fees?

Yes, thank you, Mr.
Speaker.
Obviously, I do not want to deal in hypothet icals or essentially speculation here. What I can say is that the statement was very clear , and that was that
there were certain infrastructure- related matters that
needed to be addressed during, before and after the
construction. In order to make sure this project moved forward expeditiously, so the people of St. George’s will have this benefit, not to mention Bermuda, there were certain things that we felt as Government would
help to do that.
In the grand scheme of things, $2.7 million
spread over three years is not a lot of money when
you consider $325 million is being invested here. So, I think moving the main road, essentially getting a well driven and providing some support for that construction (as that Honourable Member would know, takes a
lot of water ), particularly when it is large construction
and preparing access to some of the fort roads, not to
mention the clean- up . . . in fact, I think the Opposition
was concerned about some of the mess that was left
after the . . . with private dumping going on down
there. So all of this is an effort to try and move this
project forward as expeditiously as possible so that we can get that construction started in a major way and obviously have this hotel completed by 2020.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr.
Speaker.
I am not sure I can put a precise date on that,
but as the Honourable Member would know, having
been part of the past Government, and I think of par-ticularly the former proposed developer for this site, it took a very, very long time to get absolutely nowhere
with Mr. Bazarian. I can think of other examples that
have come up before in the past. The desperate attempt by the former Government to switch the Sout hlands Hotel Development up to Morgan’s Point, that took a very, very long time and was —

Hon. E. David Burt: Point of order, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
This is a supplementary, Mr. Speaker, and I
also have a substantive question. But my sup plementary is in relation to a question by MP De Silva. The
Minister will recall last week during question and an-swer period, Mr. Speaker, the Finance Minister actua lly stated that it was his view that the casino fees played a role in the renegotiation of this project. Is the
Minister now saying that the Finance Minister may
have misspoken last week?

Another supplementary.
Just to be clear, because the Minister earlier
answered “no” to the question as to whether or not the
supplementary agreement was precipitated by the
high casino fees, whether or not it was the only re ason. But can the Minister clarify as to whether or not the casino fees played a role in the Government and
the developer going back to the negotiation table?

Thank you, Mr.
Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, obviously, there has been a lot
of discussion about the casino fees. I think the devel-oper, particularly in terms of Mr. Purroy, as I understand it (and this was from the substantive Minister), met with the Opposition and they were told that the casino fees obviously were a concern of the develop-er. But the developer accepted what Government had
done there in terms of the casino fees.

So, clearly, it is very
hard to pull apart all these pieces. I am sure . . . and I was not involved in these substantive discussions with
the Minister. I am sure casino fees were possibly
raised. But what I think we are saying very clearly in
this statement is that there were other issues where
Government felt , and particularly with respect to infr astructure, road movement, wells, water, and that sort
of thing, where this project could be moved ahead
expeditiously —

The S p
eaker: All right. Thank you.



Bermuda House of Assembly The Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons: —by Government
helping in this particular area. Thank you.

The Chair will recognise the Honour able Premier.
Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I rise this afternoon on a sad
note. After observing the moment of silence in the
House earlier today, I think it is appropriate that I rise to extend condolences to the family and the friends of former Premier of Bermuda, the Honourable Member, Dr. David Saul, who passed away Monday.
Monday I received the unfortunate information
from my colleague. I think many in the community were aware that Dr. Saul had a stroke about t wo
months ago and never fully recovered from it, and was trying to work through the challenges of that most un-fortunate health situation that he had, and never fully
recovered from it and continued to struggle to the day
he passed. I understand that he passed in relative comfort. Certainly, it must have been a difficult two months for the Saul family and their friends and for Dr. Saul himself as a person who, I remember at all times had boundless energy and life. To have some of his
functions taken from him because of the stroke . . . I
am sure that he struggled right up to the end.
But, Mr. Speaker, I think it is appropriate that
we send condolences to the family for a man who certainly had a great deal of energy and a vision for what
he believed to be right. He served the country at the
highest level for eight years. I was fortunate enough to know him. He was my representative in Devonshire
South and I worked with him for quite some time. I
recall Dr. Saul said, when he first entered politics, that he would serve eight years, and he stuck to his words.
He served his eight years and then he moved on from there.
But not only was Dr. Saul serving at the highest level in the country, we know he endeavoured to perform at the highest levels in business and certain ly
as a community stalwart. He was involved in many community efforts and his desire to continue to i mprove our environment and to sustain our environment went above the call of duty.
I know he will be sadly missed, and certainly
as we celebrate Heritage Month this month, a reflec-tion on our sporting heroes, Dr. Saul achieved some great things in track. And he would tell you about it, and up until his days when he could not really perform any more, you would still see him running Knapton Hill
or Brighton Hill. He would just run up and down the
hill, up and down the hill, to work on his speed and his endurance. So, he was a man who spanned across many sectors in our community to get involved, whether it was business, whether it was trying to help
our community, or in politics. So he is gone at a young
age for Dr. Saul; he worked hard to keep himself in shape. So he was taken away too soon.
I think Members of this Honourable House
would all like to be associated with the condolences to his wife, Christine, who I called on Monday when I
found out about the passing, and to their family. A man who left his mark on Bermuda and I think the community, from one end of the Island to the other, is grateful for his service.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

All righ t. Thank you, Honourable Member.
The Chair will recognise the Honourable
Member from constituency 6, MP Furbert.
Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to join in with the
Premier as far as condolences to the family of Dr.
Saul. I, fortunately, had the honour to serve with him
in Cabinet. I thought Dr. David Saul was a very nice guy. I can tell you that at the time when he became
Premier and how he became Premier, but that is a
story you can read in my book, Mr. Speaker .
I am sure the Honourable Member, Grant
Gibbons, remembers how he became the Premier around the same time. He was an interesting fellow. You would never see him shopping in a shopping
mall. He would always told me he ran out of those
shopping malls. He is always adventurous. He was
always cruising . . . not cruising, but kayaking in the strangest places around the world, whether it was ice or up in places I would never go. If you recall, he loved . . . he tried to encourage us to use powdered
1708 19 May 2017 Official Hansard Report

Bermuda House of Assembly milk, over a period of time. I could not understand
that—powdered milk.
Mr. Speaker, I remember the day he called
me and I was Minister of Transport, and he called me
down to his office and said, Wayne, I want to make
you back to the Minister of Culture. I said, Why, doc?
He had this idea that we were going to build some
bridges from St. George’s up to Dockyard. I remember
. . . I don’t know if know if Grant Gibbons remembers
that.

Yes, I do.

Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: He wanted a bridge going
over Ferry Reach and then of course through Flatts.
And then he lost me. He said, I am going to build a
bridge from Fairyland up to Dockyard.
I said, You are not going through David Gi bbons’ house? I said, First of all, there is no money in
budget and you want me to go tell the people of this country that I am going to do a bridge? Not this per-son!
So he was a very interesting fellow. I kind of
liked David Saul. As a matter of fact, he was the only
one who said [he] would never accept knighthood after everybody else had accepted knighthood. So, he
will be sadly missed. My wife said she remembers
some relay they had it down to St. George’s here r ecently. And they were walking and talking about health and everything and then all of a sudden the next m inute we heard that he was in the States, just after he
had suffered a stroke. So, I will miss David Saul be-cause even despite his . . . we went separate ways
after our political differences, he still remained a good friend and we talked many times on the st reet. So, I
hope that we will remember David Saul in such a
good way. Thank you.

Thank you, Honourable Member.
The Chair will recognise the Minister for Home
Affairs, Minister Gordon- Pamplin.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon- Pamplin: Thank you, Mr.
Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I believe that in honouring Dr.
David Saul, former Premier, I think that this is one ar-ea in which perhaps the majority of the House can
hold hands in offering comfort, words of comfort, and
thoughts to his family as they go through this period of
bereavement.
I can just say I think each of us will probably
have personal stories respecting Dr. Saul, but Dr. Saul had kind of moved off the political scene at the
time that I came on, so my personal one- on-one interaction with him is lim ited. But the one thing I do r emember is that in my capacity as Shadow Finance
Minister, under a different governmental structure, he made a comment when I was required to respond to the Budget. And his comments were very, very e n-couraging to me, that he thought that I was able to
strike the right balance. And I thought that to hear
those types of comments, which were reported in the newspaper of the day, coming from somebody who had held the position of Finance Minister, I was really quite pleased to think that he had a respect for the job
that I was able to do on that particular occasion. So I
am appreciative.
I will point out, I being the Shadow Finance
Minister, that I was actually appointed to that position
by the Honourable Member who just finished speak-ing, the Honourable Member Wayne Furbert, when he was the leader of that party, and asked whether I
would serve as the Shadow Finance Minister. So I
had that opportunity to gain the respect of Dr. David Saul, and for that I am appreciative.
Mr. Speaker, while I am on my feet I would
ask that this Honourable House send a note of con-gratulations to the . . . I am not sure whether I should
do this, but it is just that I did not see the Minister ear-lier. But Bermuda Cancer and Health [Centre] opened their radiation therapy department two days ago and it is an incredible facility, one which will offer Bermudi-ans the opportunity to have radiation treatment here
on-Island in the presence of their loved ones, saving
them the stresses and the challenges of having to go
abroad [and] the anxiety that comes with radiation
treatment for cancer. They will now have that oppor-tunity to have such treatments on- Island.
I think that the Cancer and Health [Centre] for
Bermuda needs to be soundly congratulated on the vision and the execution. And they were able to boast
that the facility was able to come in on time and on budget. They have been able to raise a significant amount of money from the public in order to defray the costs relating to the construction. And they did i ndicate that they have a small loan, which obviously they are going to continue to look for further donations, but I think that just the idea of having such a facility in our country for our people is just . . . it is just beyond exci ting. I would offer congratulations to them.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you.
The Chair will recognise the Honourable
Member from constituency 29, MP De Silva.

Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I also would like to offer condolences to the family of Dr. Saul, and in particular his
wife, Christine. I had the honour, Mr. Speaker, back in
the day, of being introduced to Dr. Saul when he was at the peak of his running career, along with Gary
“Buster” Wilkinson. In order for us to get some of the
knowledge out of his head, Mr. Speaker, it was not
unusual for Gary to say, Zane, we are going down to
Dr. Saul’s house this Sunday because we have got to
move some lumber or we have got to cut some trees — or we had to do some other chore that he had


Bermuda House of Assembly around his house . So I will certainly have a place in
my heart because, Mr. Speaker, you know I went on
to be quite a talented runner myself.

[Laughter]

Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: And I do not mean that
boastfully, Mr. Speaker.

[Inaudible inter jection s]
Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: No. I did not mean that the
way it sounded. I was giving was Dr. Saul a compl iment. It is because of his knowledge—

[Inaudible interjection]
Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: I will tell you what, it was a
long time before I did beat him, but I did eventually. But I will tell you what —
[Inaudible interjection]
Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: I say that because . . . and
also Gary “Buster” Wilkinson would tell you, that he
was the talented runner he was because of the knowledge t hat David Saul gave him. So the two of us
. . . I think that it is a testament to his knowledge about
running and what a science it actually was, and still is today.
But, Mr. Speaker, whilst I am on my feet, I
would also like to give . . . you will know, last Friday I
sent out congratulations to Nahki Wells and his Hud-dersfield [Town] team, and you will note that they won their first leg and next week they will be playing the Premier Division for the first time in the club’s history.
Yesterday when I was in London, I can tell
you, he was the headline news, giving his speech af-ter the game. It was a very proud moment to see our born Bermudian speaking after the game and you could feel the excitement in his voice with his and his
team’s victory. So, I am hopeful, Mr. Speaker, that the
next time we come to this House— well, it will be the
time after this because it is the 29
th—that we will be
able to congratulate Nahki and his team for winning promotion. And Mr. MP Lawrence Scott would like to be associated. T hank you.

Thank you, Mr.
Speaker.
I would also like to be associated with the
Premier’s condolences to the family of Dr. David Saul.
I knew him both as a boss, when I was in Cabinet, as a friend, and certainly I had business associations with him going back many, many years as well. He
was an extraordinary man; one might say a renai ssance man in many respects. I think he held a t rack
record for 20- odd years. I do not know if it is was the
880, but it was a sort of intermediate spread.
Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: A 10-miler too.

And 10- miler as
well. But [he] was a very accomplished from an athletic perspective.
But he loved adventure. He loved to tell st ories. He was a member of the Explorers’ Club in New
York; quite an elite club with a lot of worldwide explorers.
He had been very involved in setting the BUEI
[Bermuda Underwater Exploration Institute] up. He
was a shareholder in Odyssey, which was the ship
that was bringing up sunken wrecks and historical treasures from various places. Obviously, he was very
involved with the Buy Back Bermuda campaign.
I remember him telling a number of stories
abou t trekking through Venezuela and through paths
to get to, I think, the Angel Falls. He liked to tell the
story about how the first person who stepped on a
tarantula woke them up and it was the second person
in the hiking party that got bitten because the t arantula
was awake at that point and lashed out at whoever it was. But whether it was kayaking in Antarctica or whatever, he was absolutely delighted with some of
the adventures. He lived an extremely full life. He was
obviously a very bright and passionate person. He was a completely committed Bermudian to Bermuda and, obviously, took over the premiership at a very difficult time, particularly within the United Bermuda Party, at the time, right after the referendum on ind ependence. So he had a difficult task to manage, but I think he did so with intelligence and a very good heart.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you very much.
Honourable Members, it looks like . . . it is
12:30 now, so I think we will break and come back to
this also. I want to remind Members, or inform Members, that the MarketPlace usually brings us a cake, a Bermuda Day Cake, so they are going to present it in the House. If Members can come to atrium as soon as
we leave here, we can have that done quickly and
then go for lunch.

Thank you , Mr. Speaker .
Mr. Speaker, I rise today to make congratul atory remarks to the Prospect Primary School on their
Leaders & Legacy Day, a day on which they recog-nise five former Prospect Primary students who have been outstanding members in their community for one reason or another, those people being Mildred—sorry, sorry, sorry, wrong name —those people being: Dr.
Duranda Green, Mr. Larry Mussenden, Miss Deborah Deshields, Minister of the Church Paul Richards, M ajor Barrett Dill, and Mr. Clarence F. W. Smith. And these former students of Prospect Primary, as I said, have given back much to their communities, and those at Prospect Primary thought it only fitting that
they be recognised. And it is a way of tying in history
and making history come alive within the institutions where . . . when our young children hear about members of the community like that, they get to see and meet them with first -hand, and it makes it very real.
They know that they can . . . they can emulate these
people and one day, hopef ully, stand in like shoes.
And so I just want to congratulate Prospect Primary for that.
Likewise, Mr. Speaker, and you will know as
you were in attendance, I would like to congratulate all
of the graduates from the Bermuda College and def initely point out, in particular, the address [given] by
young Miss Chelsea Ray, which was superb.
And Mr. Speaker, [I] just basically [want to]
point out the fact that it is clearly evidenced that Ber-muda College is carrying up our students further and
further as we had 10 graduates from the Dual Enro lment Programme (that is up from last year), and we
had six graduates for a bachelor’s degree in associ ation with Bermuda College, and seven for a master’s degree. And I dare say . . . and I know I will not be
jumping the gun, that our Shadow Minister of Educ ation will get up and speak in even more detail giving congratulatory remarks to those who have graduated from Bermuda College.
So congratulatory remarks for both of those
two educational entities, and on that note, Mr. Spea ker, I will take my seat.

I would like to be associated with the
Premier’s condolences sent to the honourable former
[Premier] Dr. David Saul’s family.
One of the famous stories I remember —he
was also known as “Clicky” as, obviously, a great ru nner, but I will never forget one of the first races that I ever ran in. I was certainly not the calibre of the Honourable Member Zane De Silva—that is for sure—but
I took off, and off I went the first 10K and I was running up by ZBM and he said, Smitty, yo u’re not gonna
make it, and he was absolutely right. But he overtook
me by the time I got to the Bermuda Squash Club and
I limped all the way home from there. But, as they say,
A young bull learning , that was me at the time. So I
remember him for that and his words of wisdom that
he gave me when I was running by.
He also opened up a couple of businesses of
mine and when I looked back at the picture recently at the former Premier this brought back one thing. He never really aged. When I looked at the pictur e today,
I am the one that has aged the most compared to if you look at the pictures of him in the paper. So health, obviously, was a big factor in his life, and he also spent a lot of time on the ocean and what have you.
I would also like to send condolences to the
family of Ms. Maxine Lovell. She was a constituent of
mine. She is being buried as we speak this afternoon. She used to work for me many years ago and she also worked at Riddell’s Bay Golf course for several years. So, I send condolences to her family.
And I would like to be associated with the
Honourable Whip, Ms. Lovitta Foggo, because I also attended the commencement exercise yesterday at Bermuda College. It is the first time I have ever been to one and I have to say I was thoroughly impress ed
and I think Ms. Foggo nailed it on the head. We should be very proud of our Bermudian students and
their achievements. And with that, Mr. Speaker , I will
take my seat. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker .
And just briefly I would like to be associated
with the condolences that were given to the family of
the late Premier, the Honourable Dr. David Saul. My associ ation with him was, other than being familiar


Bermuda House of Assembly with his political career and public service career, but
my personal association with him was outside of that
as we served mutually on the board of the Bermuda Underwater Exploration Institute, which everyone knows was one of his very cherished projects and
which he was a founder. I served on the board with him on that institution for a number of years and it was
a testimony to his passion and his interest in the
ocean, certainly in our own Island’s historic wrecks and the treatment and care, preservation, of that as-pect of our heritage, and he obviously took that on a global level. And I can speak certainly to his attention and dedication to that institute and he took great care
and was often very much . . . giving direction and advice while we were on the board to ensure that those
who had responsibility for the institute were doing what was necessary to expand its appreciation in the community and to ensure that it was a sustainable organisation. So, I can speak to that side of him and
he was certainly somebody who, I know, was concerned with . . . also that this institution was a strong
proponent of education not only of our whole comm unity, but our children, about the ocean and the oceans of Bermuda. And I would like to associate the Ho nourable Whip . . . although the Whip did not sit on the
board at the same time I did, but she is also a former board member of the BUEI and she would like to be also associated with those remarks. Thank you very
much, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Honourable Member .
The Chair will now recognise the Minister for
Health and Seniors, Minister Jeanne Atherden.

Hon. Jeanne J. Atherden: Thank you, Mr. Speaker .
I am going to start off in terms of sad notes
and then I will come to congrats.
I would like to be associated with the remarks
that are sent to the family of Maxine Lovell. Maxine
worked at Riddell’s Bay and I must admit, you know when you start to look at the back page —it used to be
the back page, but now it is the middle page —and you
see people in there and you say that person looks awfully familiar and then after that the penny sort of
drops. And you know Maxine was one of those indi-viduals. She loved her job and she loved helping peo-ple. So I would like to have remarks sent to her family
. . . I would like to have our condolences sent to her
family.
I would also like to be associated with the r emarks to be sent to the family of David Saul. You
would have thought that with us both sort of being in the financial area that we would have interacted much
more, but actually my interaction with David was more in the line with health. Because I remember there was an event at Warwick Academy and David had partic ipated and then we were talking afterwards about how important it was to take care of your health. And by
then he had had one of his health challenges that he had come through and, if you will, was on the mend
and it was looking . . . was quite involved in terms of
doing some of the other things that have been talked
about here in Bermuda. And so we had this good chat about what you do, you know, once you have gotten through a challenge and how important your life is to you afterwards to do the things that are important to
you. So I would like to be associated with the r emarks
to his family.
I would also, Mr. Speaker, like to have co ngratulations sent to Bermuda Cancer and Health
[Centre] for two reasons. One, because last week Fr iday I had the opportunity to be there to help them
open up their Relay for Life. And their Relay for Life
was the 24 hours that . . . the fund raiser that they put
on which was not only a fund raiser, but also was a way of remembering those who had fought the battle, some of which are still fighting the cancer battle, and others who had lost it, but a way to remember them
and remember the things they had done. And it was quite amazing to me when you see everybody out there—the caregivers, the persons who survived, and also the volunteers.
And more importantly, Mr. Speaker , is the fact
that on Wednesday when I had the opportunity to go to their facilities to cut the ribbon for the new radiation therapy treatment that is going to be open there—that is now open— and to be able to reflect on the fact of
how many people in Bermuda are affected by cancer
and what benefit it is going to have with respect to
being able to have it done on the Island, not only from
the fact that it reduces costs, but more importantly the fact that you do not have to leave the Island and, therefore, your family can be there to support you.
And therefore you can have the treatment in a facility that is associated with world- class overseas instit utions. So I believe that they have done something r eally good for Bermuda. Bermuda has stood behind
them in terms of the fund raising. But the bottom line is, and this is something which we said, and I have to just keep saying again, we have to remind everybody
that they have to take care of themselves, especially
[concerning] skin cancer. Thank you, Mr. Speaker .

Thank you, Mr. Speaker .
First off, I would like to associate myself with
the comments made by my colleague, Ms. Foggo,
about the Bermuda College graduation and as she
said, you were there as well.
Mr. Speaker, it was a pleasure to see 136
graduates walk across that stage. That is absolutely phenomenal. And of particular note was how many came from the Technical School in this particular graduating class. As my colleague did mention, there were some graduates from the bachelor’s degree and
1712 19 May 2017 Official Hansard Report

Bermuda House of Assembly the master’s degree programmes —five in the bach elor’s and seven in the master’s. The only knock that I
did see on that, Mr. Speaker , was they were all women. And it is not to take away from the accomplis hments of the women, but I think this shows an indic ation of how much more—although we are making pr ogress —how much more we need to do to get males in
those positions as well. And it is definitely something that we hope to see in the next administration, that we will see males being pushed forward.
Also, Mr. Speaker , I would like for congratul ations to be sent to the Dellwood Middle School. Unfor-tunately, there were not many Members of this Cha mber that managed to attend, just myself and the Lead-er of the Opposition, but the students at Dellwood Middle School put on a musical and theatrical rendi-tion of the story of Mary Prince. And if you were someone who did not know that story, you defi nitely
walked away knowing who Mary Prince was and how
important she was to virtually everyone that sits within
these Chambers and how her story led to the Slavery Abolition Act that was passed by the British Parli ament in [1833]. And so, Mr. Speaker, just congratulations sent to Dellwood Middle School for this phenomenal play. And I understand it is going to be done
again in June and they are trying to record it as well. So I encourage all in these Chambers and in the pub-lic to get out and see Dellwood Middle School perform this phenomenal play.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker .

Thank you.
The Chair will recognise the Minister for S ocial Development and Sport, Minister Outerbridge.
Hon. Nandi Outerbridge: Thank you, Mr. Speaker .
Mr. Speaker, sports had a very busy week this
week and I have been to the airport twice this week to
greet athletes coming back after participating in inter-national sports. I would like to actually point to the Rugby Team who flew in on Monday. Our Under 13
and Under 15 rugby teams participated in a rugby i nternational tour and our Under 13s actually won the
tour and our Under 15s placed second place within their age group. I thought it was important to actually recognise the rugby team because rugby is growing by leaps and bo unds in Bermuda, Mr. Speaker .
Where it once was very much considered a private school sport, programmes like Beyond Rugby which has partnered with the Family Centre and the Berm uda Rugby Association have done tremendous work in reaching out to students in the public schools to act ually get them on board with rugby. And you know, B eyond Rugby in particular has done some amazing work with helping some of the boys turn their lives around and promoting some sort of self -responsibility
in all areas. And I think that is really important that we have something around like this for these young men. And I am sure people have seen the videos and [it] is
amazing how these boys have turned out.
I would also like to associate the Premier with
these remarks because he was actually with me at the
airport greeting back the rugby players as well.
On the Tuesday we went down and we met
the Netball team. And I know that remarks were given
on their behalf a week ago, but I just want to say that
now that they are back, I had a chat with them and they were very excited to be back. So I told them, you know, Bermuda is very excited about them and where they are. They have not yet been ranked because they have another four games to play, but we are
looking forward to them participating in those sports
and encouraging them, so hopefully Bermuda can get
some ranking this year. And we would be pretty excit-ed to come back to the House and report on that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker .

Good afternoon, Mr. Speaker .
Mr. Speaker, I rise to ask this House to give
congratulations to the Bermuda Alumni Chapter of the
Kappa Alpha Psi. I know something may have been mentioned earlier in the reference to their annual Kappa Classic this year. But the reason I stand this
time is to acknowledge their perseverance in doing
this tournament over an 18 -year period. They actually
took it over . . . it was actually called the Heritage Pee
Wee Classic sometime in the early 90s and they took
it over because it was sort of struggling then and as you can see, it has gone from strength to strength. It
is certain ly one of the tournaments that is in the calendar of every 7- to 17- year-old youth, whet her they
be boy or girl, because that is who they cater to. And
as I said, this year the tournament ran over three days —an evening, and all day Saturday and Su nday—and it drew thousands of people there. It was a
very exciting family atmosphere. So, I would really like
congratulations to be offered to them.
Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker .

Mr. Speaker, I certainly would like to
be associated with the condolences sent to the family
of our former Premier, Dr. David Saul. I personally knew Dr. Saul all of my life. My father and mot her
were friends with him and his wife. And David —Dr.
Saul—was always full of life. He was a man that was
very passionate about Bermuda and our people, and we had numerous conversations about the same. A lso, he was a client of mine for many years. And it i s
honestly hard to believe that he has passed.
Many might not know this —we all know that
he was a great runner and a great sportsman, and we
all know of his love of the ocean and, obviously, wis hing to be buried at sea and so on—but many might not
know that he also loved carpentry. And I am very for-tunate to have a whale —a Bermuda Cedar whale —
that Dr. Saul had made that my wife had given me as
a gift. And I certainly will cherish this now for the rest
of my life. As was said earlier by others, Dr. Saul worked very hard to make sure that the Bermuda U nderwater Institute was what it is today. And, of course, he made these Bermuda Cedar whales to help assist in raising money for the Bermuda Underwater Inst itute. So, he will truly be missed and I certainly send condolences to his wife and children.
On a more positive note, but sticking with
sports, because I know that our former Premier Dr. David Saul was likewise very proud of our young golden girl, our world champion, Flora Duffy, who continues to dominate on the world stage and just recently won in Japan. The 29- year-old actually had broken
a record by having the largest win—I believe it was
1 minute and 51 seconds —which was the largest in
the history of the Triathlon series. And, as I said, this
young lady is only 29 years old, so I am sure we are
going to have more victories coming from her. And I would like to associate . . . I am sure I would associate
the whole House with that.
you very much, Mr. Speaker .

I would like to send out congratulations to the nine nurses that were pinned this
week at the Bermuda College. I am very proud of the nine Bermudian women who have now dedicated their lives to the service of good health in Bermuda. And I
would like to associate Member Wilson and the Mini ster of Health and Seniors —all of us —the House is
raising their hands in congratulations.
The nine students have persevered through a
programme that has certainly had its challenges, not
in the quality of the content that was imparted upon
the students, but certainly just establishing such a rigorous programme here in Bermuda with the Bermuda
College. And these nine graduates of the Associates of Science in Nursing will now go on and get their l icence actually in the United States of America in New York, in particular, and then will be able to begin their
professional service. And we are hoping, and I believe
I can say, that they will all come back and serve here in Bermuda.
There is one person that I would like to reco gnise, Ms. Martins, Nurse Martins. She was the class
representative and she did a very good job speaking
to the full house of parents and family and friends that were there at the graduation. And she is the daughter of Dennis Martins who is seen around Bermuda as the
cameraman for Bernews . And it was a very proud
moment for, not only him as a father, but there were a number of fathers that were there pinning their daug hters . . . and wife, there was a wife . . . husband and
wife. Actually, the Commissioner’s wife is also on the
list. And it was just . . . just a very proud moment, not
only for me and the members and audience that were there, but for Bermuda because we are turning out a
very healthy, qualified group of people who will now
enter into our health care system.
And I would like to end with a very, very special thank you to the Director of Nursing, Kathy -Ann
Swan, and her faculty who have brought these young people through the programme. And certainly there
were a healthy number of students that were in their
greens that are still working towards their associate’s degree, so we are looking forward to a healthy graduation of more nursing students at the end of next year.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker .

Thank you, Mr. Speaker .
Mr. Speaker, I would like to join in the comments of condolences to the family of the late Dr. D avid Saul, who was the Premier . . . actually Premier at
probably one of our more interesting times in politics.
And at that time I was very much interested in obser ving politics, it was an interesting time. I did not know
him that well. He seemed to be more of a quiet and
reserved one of the politicians, but I have learned that he was a dominant force in politics. And then I had the opportunity to get to know him because of his position at the National Trust and he sought my professional services. And it was interesting because what should
1714 19 May 2017 Official Hansard Report

Bermuda House of Assembly have been 15- minute meetings turned out to be an
hour-plus because at that time I was in the Ber muda
Democratic Alliance and we would talk politics and he
would tell me stories. I remember he was telling me a story of when he became the Premier how he did not know he was going to be able to form a Cabinet at that time, and the difficulty he went through in trying to
form that Cabinet and calling people who were overseas, and it was just really extraordinary and interes ting listening to his stories, listening to history. He a lways had some very sagacious advice for me, Mr. Speaker . He seemed to . . . I would not say be bitter,
but he seemed to distance himself from politics. I do
not think he was ever interested in getting back into
politics. He certainly had an interesting experience himself, but he was more than committed to his coun-try and he was so as the Chairman of the Buy Back Committee, he was passionate about preserving Ber-muda lands, particularly national reserves. And he will
be a great miss, certainly one of those characters that
we may never see the likes [of] again. Thank you, Mr.
Speaker .

Thank you, Honourable Member .
The Chair will now recognise the Learned
Member from constituency 36, MP Michael Scott.
Hon. Michael J. Scott: Thank you, Mr. Speaker .
Mr. Speaker, the community who live along
the Sound View Road in Sandys ha s lost one of its
mothers, Mrs. Gwendolyn Cann, who passed quietly
in her slumber this week. And I would like to send out condolences to Ivan Cann and Karen (Gary pred eceased his siblings) and to all of the Simmons family and all of us who knew Mrs. Cann and Rudolph Cann.
Mr. Speaker, I am sure during your younger
days you would have been around us as we were making kites —

She was my momma too.
Hon. Michael J. Scott: That is right. So I associate
Mr. Speaker’s mother and himself and the Member for
Mrs. Gwendolyn Cann, the Honourable and Learned Member, Ms. Kim Wilson. God bless that family as they mourn the loss of a mother who lived a lovely and good life.
And I take the opportunity, as all Members of
the House have, to be associated with the remarks of condolence to the passing of the former Premier, Dr. David Saul, who cut an important and memorable path in his journey of living the life of public service.
And I express my condolences to his whole family and to the members of the UBP whom he served. Thanks. The Speaker: Thank you.
The Chair will recognise the Leader of the
Opposition.

Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you, Mr. Speaker .
Mr. Speaker , I rise to associate myself with
the remarks to the former United Bermuda Party’s Premier, former Bermuda Premier, Mr. David Saul,
who did pass away this week. Unlike other Members, I did not have the opportunity to know and/or work with Mr. Saul so I cannot speak to his traits and qualities. However, in a release that was put out by our party is that he was a man of excellence and he strove to be
excellent at whatever he did. And his service, of
course, to our country should be celebrated and thanked.
I also wish to associate myself, Mr. Speaker,
with three particular congrats that have been given earlier today. The first one regarding the nurses,
which was given by the Honourable Member for constituency 20, I would like to associate myself with those remarks, specifically in regard to her congratul ations to the nine nurses, her congratulations to Miss Kathy Swan who is actually is my constituent, and her
congratulations to Nurse Martins, who of course is
Dennis Martins’ daughter as I think we all know. I t was
a very good thing to see them at the graduation yes-terday at the Bermuda College , and it is wonderful ,
being the Progressive Labour Party, of course, to see the fruits of a programme that we started taking shape
and that is to ensure that nurses could be trained here
on-Island. So it is good to see that.
Keeping on that vein, Mr. Speaker, I think it is
also incredible that we talk about the Bermuda Col-lege graduation (which I know that you were at as well, Mr. Speaker, yesterday) and to see 10 young
students from high school graduate with an assoc iate’s degree— another thing that was started by the
Progressive Labour Party Government , and we are
seeing that it is being brought to fruition. But I attended the Bermuda College graduation ceremony yesterday and it is always lovely to see so many of our
young people reach the next stage of their life and be
celebrated, Mr. Speaker.
And, finally, I would like to associate myself
with the remarks given by the Honourable Member for constituency 13, MP Diallo Rabain. On Tuesday we
were able to attend the play at the Dellwood Middle School. It was a wonderful play, of course, I got to watch quite a few of my constituents who are involved inside of that play itself, but the play and the history insofar as Heritage Month and the story of Mary
Prince is something that I think is very important.
Clearly, the students knew and understood it through
drama. Clearly, some of the parents who were there who may not have known, understood it through dr ama, and it was something that was certainly well done
and produced. And thankfully, the most important thing, it was well attended by the parents and staff. So


Bermuda House of Assembly I would like to send congratulations to the Dellwood
Middle School and specifically Miss Nishanthi Bailey
for organisi ng it.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

All right. Thank you, Honourable Member.
Any other Honourable Member care to speak?
Well, just before we move on, Honourable
Members, I think I would . . . it would be remiss of me
not to, certainly, speak and offer condolences to the
family of the former Premier, David Saul. I certainly had a very positive relationship . . . and when the
Speaker is speaking, nobody talks.
I had a very positive and, I think, fruitful rel ationship with Dr. Saul which goes quite a ways back. First through sports, I remember when he was a ref-eree and he was the only referee that you could not argue with because he kept right up with the play. And
when he blew the whistle he was standing right over
you, so you could not argue with him and tell him that
he was wrong. How important that was , and I will never forget that because I was one who . . . I questioned
decisions sometimes, but not his because he was
right there.
Then also when it comes to education, again,
when I . . . first of all, he went to Loughborough. He
studied physical education and it was the same track
that I took —along the way I was in England, studied
physical education—he went to Loughborough which was the eminent college at the time. And when I came
back and when I was teaching, when he became the . . . he was the Permanent Secretary for Education
and gave me the opportunity to fulfil my professional football contract and be the Assistant Principal at Warwick Sec. He gave me the opportunity to leave
school early some days, et cetera. He also said, Don’t
ask me next year. But in order for me to take the job
he . . . and I am so thankful for that because I may not
have been the Principal of Warwick Sec had he not
done that. And so I always, always remember that.
And then, of course, I remember also his contribution to the Bermuda College and the fact that he was the man, in fact, who wrote the draft paper that actually assisted the politicians of the day —Stanley
Ratteray and Gloria McPhee—as they pushed to bring the Bermuda College to fruition.
He had always encouraged me. And even
when I became a politician and a Progressive Labour Party politician and he was in the United Bermuda Party, but he always, always encouraged me. And when I became a Minister he gave me the greatest encouragement. And I will never forget when I was the
Minister of Sport (and no disrespect to the present
Minister of Sport) but Dr. Saul came to a function that I officiated at, he sent me a letter the next day, it said,
You’re the best Sport s Minister Bermuda’s ever had.
And I will never forget that and I keep that letter . . . I keep that letter right now. I can find it for you and bring it to you.
So I have had a real, real, good relationship
with Dr. Saul. He was certainly, I think, a man of great
energy and intellect, I remember, a man who gave
great attention to detail, he was a man of integrity, he was selfless , and really believed in the people of Bermuda. So, I offer my condolences to his wife, Chri stine, and the rest of his family. Rest in peace, Dr. Saul.
That concludes the Obituary and Congratul atory Speeches.

MATTERS OF PRIVILEGE

The Chair will recognise the Honour able E. T. Richards, the Minister of Finance.

GOVERNMENT BILLS

FIRST READING

U.S.A. – BERMUDA TAX CONVENTION
AMENDMENT (NO. 3) A CT 2017
Hon. E. T. (Bob) Richards: Thank you, Mr. Speaker .
Mr. Speaker, I am introducing the following
Bill for its first reading so that it may be placed on the
Order Paper for the next day of meeting: U.S.A. –
Bermuda Tax Convention Amendment (No. 3) Act
2017.

Thank you, Minister.
The Chair will now recognise the Honourable
Member from constituency 6, MP Wayne Furbert.

1OPPOSITION BILLS


1 Record corrected to indicate this is a “Private Members’ Bill”
1716 19 May 2017 Official Hansard Report

Bermuda House of Assembly FIRST READING

HUMAN RIGHTS AMENDMENT BILL 2017

Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Thank you, Mr. Speaker .
Mr. Speaker , I move to introduce the following
Bill: Human Rights Amendment Bill 2017. And I ask
that it be put down on the Order Paper for the next day of meeting.

Thank you for the correction. Yes, right. Then the Honourable Member was wrong to
stand up when I called for Opposition Bills. So, ther efore, we will make that correction and the Honourable
Member , Wayne Furbert, gave a Private Member s’ Bill
and not an Opposition Bill. So, let the record show
that.
Thank you for your correction, Leader of the
Opposition.

[RECORD CORRECT ED to report the Private Me mbers’ Bill, entitled, Human Rights Amendment Bill
2017, was moved by Hon. Wayne L. Furber t.]

NOTICES OF MOTIONS

Hopefully he has it
now.
Mr. Speaker and Honourable Member s, I am
pleased to introduce the Bill entitled Mortgaging of
Aircraft and Aircraft Engines Amendment Act 2017.
The main purpose of this Bill, Mr. Speaker , is
to amend the Mortgaging of Aircraft and Aircraft E ngines Act 1999 to remove the requirement that an aircraft or aircraft engine must be “owned by, leased or chartered to, or otherwise in the lawful possession of a company incorporated in Bermuda” in order to be
made a security for a loan or other valuable consideration or to be entered on the applicable register.
Mr. Speaker , the Mortgaging of Aircraft and
Aircraft Engines Act provides for the registration of aircraft and aircraft engine mortgages. Specifically, under section 5(1) of the Act the Minister is required to
maintain a register of aircraft mortgages and a register
of aircraft engine mortgages. Under subsection 5(2)
“any mortgage of an aircraft registered in the Bermuda nationality register or capable of being so registered may be entered in the” aircraft mortgage register; and
under subsection 5(3) any aircraft engine mortgage
may be so registered.
Mr. Speaker, a secondary purpose of this Bill
is to update the definition of the Bermuda nationality register in the Act. The reference to the Bermuda na-tionality register is to the register of aircraft maintained
in Bermuda pursuant to the Air Navigation (Overseas
Territories) Order 1989, which has been superseded. This register is now maintained by the Bermuda Civil Aviation Authority under the Air Navigation (Overseas
Territories) Order 2013.
Mr. Speaker, procedures for the registration
and deregistration of aircraft mortgages and aircraft engine mortgages are provided for under the Mortgag-ing of Aircraft (Procedures) Regulations 1999 and the Mortgaging of Aircraft Engine Procedures Regulations 1999, respectively .
Mr. Speaker, currently under section 5 of the
principal Act it provides that any mortgage of an ai rcraft or aircraft engine registered in Bermuda in the Bermuda nationality register or capable of being so registered may be entered in the mortgage regist er
only if the aircraft or engines are “owned by, leased or
chartered to, or otherwise in the lawful possession of a company incorporated in Bermuda.”
However, registration of aircraft in Bermuda is
not restricted to aircraft owned or leased to companies incorporated in Bermuda. This means that, as the Act currently stands, it is not possible to register in Bermuda mortgages relating to all aircraft or aircraft engines which may be registered in Bermuda. This is a distinct disadvantage to Bermuda since those wishing to register aircraft in Bermuda will also wish to register in Bermuda any mortgages of those aircraft or en-gines just as they can in competing jurisdictions such
as the Cayman Islands.
Mr. Speaker, with respect to the Bermuda
nationality register the categories of persons qualified
to hold a legal or beneficial interest in an aircraft for the purposes of its registration in the Overseas Terr itories, including Bermuda, were extended substantially by the 2014 Amendment made to t he Air Navigation
(Overseas Territories) Order 2013, which took effect
on 15 January 2015. Qualification was, therefore, extended by the 2013 Amendment Order to:
• Firstly, United Kingdom Nationals , which are
defined as British citizens, British overseas territories citizens, British overseas citizens, British National overseas, British subjects un-der the British Nationality Act 1981, and Bri tish protected persons within the meaning of that Act.
• Also extended to persons ordinarily resident or domiciled in the territory. And thi s was r eplaced by Commonwealth citizens.
• Bodies incorporated and having a registered
office in the territory or in the United Kingdom
was replaced in the 2014 Order by Bodies i ncorporated in any part of the Commonwealth
and which have their registered office or pri ncipal place of business in any part of the Commonwealth.
• Qualification was also extended in the 2014
Order to Nationals of any European economic
area state, undertakings formed in accor dance with the law of a European economic ar-ea state and which have their registered office, central administration, or principal place
of business within the European economic ar-ea.

Mr. Speaker, in summary, in order to make
Bermuda more competitive it is proposed to bring the Act into line with these expanded qual ifications for
registration of aircraft in Bermuda and other Overseas Territories by updating the definitions of the Bermuda nationality register.
In addition, it is proposed that the Act be
amended to permit the registration of a mortgage of any aircraft on the Bermuda Aircraft Register and of
the mortgage of any aircraft engine attached to such an aircraft, or owned or leased by the owner of such an aircraft. This will be achieved by deleting the r equirement that the aircraft or aircraft engine (as the
case may be) must be “owned by, leased or chartered
to, or otherwise in the lawful possession of a company
incorporated in Bermuda.”
These changes will also bring the Act in line
with the equivalent provisions of the Cayman Islands ’
[The] Mortgaging of Aircraft Regulations, 2015.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker .

Thank you, Honourable Member .
1718 19 May 2017 Official Hansard Report

Bermuda House of Assembly The Chair will now recognise the Honourable
Member from constituency 6, MP Wayne Furbert.
You have the floor.

Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Thank you, Mr. Speaker .
Mr. Speaker , there is no doubt Bermuda is
very highly respected in this area. There have been several amendments over the years, particularly I r emember 2013 and 2016, and it is very clear . . . the
reason why we have this type of instrument in place
because it works quite well for Bermuda. I recall a
time when I was Minister of Transport when we flew to Seattle and we took on the Aeroflot flights. I am not
sure whether they still have them in the register or not,
but that was the first time we put them on the register.
And the reason why is because they felt Bermuda was a jurisdiction and was recommended by the US for us to come on this register . . . for them to come on this
register. As a matter of fact it was Boris Yeltsin’s sonin-law who was the chairman at the time and we met
him and . . . yeah, Boris Yeltsin, that was how far back
it was. His son -in-law who was the president, he arrived in a stretch limousine, Boeing, he arrived in a
stretch limousine. Of course, we kept our money tight because Grant Gibbons was the Minister of Finance
and I arrived —

Honourable Member .
Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: —I arrived in a blue bus. But
those were those days when we did extremely well,
and I know that the aircraft registry has grown tr emendously over that period of time.
The changes that are being recommended or
put forward by the department and, of course, the Minister, of course, helps our competitive advantage.
At least it makes us competitive with other jurisdi ctions, particularly, our neighbour to the south, the
Cayman Islands.
So we on this side support the Government in
this move. We have always supported any type of advancement we can make to make this particular regi ster more beneficial to us, so we throw our total support
behind the Minister and this particular Bill today.
Thank you.

Thank you. T hank
you, Mr. Speaker. And I thank the Honourable Member for his support.
The Honourable Member will be, perhaps,
interested to know that the register now has some . . .
close to 780 aircraft registered on it and it has been
growing. I am told by the Director General , Mr. Dunstan, it has been growing actually consistently over
the last few years. So the aircraft register, which is now handled by the Bermuda Civil Aviation Authority
(the new quango), is in good hands and continues to
prosper.
Mr. Speaker, with those few comments I move
that the Bill be committed.

Okay. Thank you,
Madam Chairman.
A s we have said, this Bill seeks to amend the
Mortgaging of Aircraft and Aircraft Engines Act 1999 to remove the requirement that, to be made a security
for a loan or other valuable consideration, or to be entered on the appropriate register, an aircraft or air-craft engine must be owned by, leased or chartered to, or otherwise in the lawful possession of a company incorporated in Bermuda. And the second point of it is
to abate the definition of the Bermuda nat ionality re gister.
Clause 1 is the citation.
Clause 2 amends the definition of “Bermuda
nationality register” in section 2 of the [principal] Act,
by replacing the reference to the Air Navigation
(Overseas Territories) Order 1989 with a reference to the 2013 Order, which is the current Air Navigation Order that applies to Bermuda.
Clause 3 amends section 3 of the Act to clearly state that an aircraft engine made for security for a
loan or other valuable consideration, is one that is atBermuda House of Assembly tached to an aircraft registered, or capable of being
registered, in the Bermuda nationality register or is for
such an aircraft (and the engine need not be attached) and is owned by or leased to the owner of such an aircraft. It also removes the requirement that to be made security for a loan or other valuable consider ation, an aircraft or aircraft engine must be owned by,
leased or chartered to, or otherwise in the lawful possession of a company incorporated in Bermuda.
Clause 4 amends section 5 of the Act by also
repealing the requirement that the aircraft or aircraft engine must be owned by, leased or chartered to, or otherwise in the lawful possession of a company i ncorporated in Bermuda. As a result the amendments provide that any mortgage of an aircraft registered in the B ermuda nationality register or is capable of being
so registered may be entered into the register of ai rcraft mortgages. Also any mortgage of an aircraft en-gine, as now specified in section 3 of the Act, may be
entered into the register of aircraft engine mortgages.
Clause 5 amends regulation 8 of the Mortga ging of Aircraft Engines (Procedures) Regulations 1999
to delete the reference to “by a Bermuda company.” This would make it clear that the regulation applies to
any registered aircraft engine mortgage.
Thank you, Madam Chairman.

Thank you.
Are there any Members that would like to
speak to clause 1 through 5? The Chair recognises
the Member from constituency 6.
Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Thank you, Madam Chai rman.
People should be . . . individuals in this House
should be aware that there are basically two registers: for the aircraft and the engine itself. And maybe the
Minister . . . I do not have any problem with the . . .
with the clauses that are being amended, but maybe if you . . . the Minister could tell us (and probably
through his technicals) why do they separate aircraft
and aircraft engines separately as far as the register?

Yes, t hank you,
Madam Chairman.
I am happy to answer that. There are occ asions, and this may sound a little strange, where the
aircraft engine that is being mortgaged is, let us say, a spare engine and is not actually on the aircraft itself. And the financing for it may be different than for the
aircraft and the engine that is there. So, there are
probably other circumstances where the engine may not be actually attached to the aircraft in question. So that is the flexibility that this particular piece of legisl ation provides.

It has been moved that the Bill be
reported to the House as printed.
Any objections to that motion?
No objections.
Agreed to.
[Gavel]
[Motion carried: The Mortgaging of Aircraft and Air-craft Eng ines Amendment Act 2017 was considered
by a Committee of the whole House and passed without amendment]

House resumed at 2:58 pm
[Hon. K. H. Randolph Horton, Speaker, in the Chair]

REPORT OF COMMITTEE

1720 19 May 2017 Official Hansard Report

Bermuda House of Assembly MORTGAGING OF AIRCRAFT AND AIRCRAFT
ENGINES AMENDMEN T ACT 2017

Members, the second reading of the
Mortgaging of Aircraft and Aircraft Engines Amendment Act 2017 . . . the second reading has been approved.
Order No. 5 is carried over.
Order No. 6 is carried over.
And we now move to Order No. 7, which is
the Partnership and Limited Liability Company (Bene-ficial Ownership) Amendment Act 2017 in the name of the Minister of Finance.
You have the floor.

BILL

SECOND READING

PARTNERSHIP AND LIMITED LIABILITY
COMPANY (BENEFICIAL OWNERSHIP)
AMENDM ENT ACT 2017

Hon. E. T. (Bob) Richards: Thank you, Mr. Speaker .
Mr. Speaker, I move that the Bill entitled the
Partnership and Limited Liability Company (Beneficial
Ownership) Amendment Act 2017 be now read a sec-ond time.

Are there any objections to that?
There are none.
Carry on, please.

Hon. E. T. (Bob) Richards: Thank you, Mr. Speaker .
Mr. Speaker, the purpose of the Partnership
and Limited Liability Company (Beneficial Ownership)
Amendment Act 2017 is to require notification to be made to the Bermuda Monetary Authority with respect to the appointment and change of general partners or admission (in specified circumstances) of members of
limited liability companies and to stipulate that such an
appointment or change of a general partner or admi ssion of a member shall not take effect until the date of receipt of the notification by the Authority.
Mr. Speaker, the House will recall that the
Government of the United Kingdom gave a commi tment to the G7 to support the overseas territories and Crown dependencies to publish action plans setting out concrete steps where needed to fully implement the Financial Action Taskforce Standards (known as the FATF). Excuse me for a second.

[Pause]

Hon. E. T. (Bob) Richards: Sorry about that, Mr.
Speaker .
Yes, the House will recall that the Gover nment of the United Kingdom gave a commitment to
the G7 to support the overseas territories and Crown dependencies to publish action plans setting out concrete steps, where needed, to fully implement the
FATF Stand ards in 2012. The objectives of the FATF
are to set standards and promote effective implemen-tation of legal, regulatory, and operational measures for combating money laundering, terrorist financing, and other related threats to the integrity of the intern ational financial system.
Subsequent to this development, the UK
Government invited the Government of Bermuda to create a central register of beneficial ownership infor-mation for all entities and to make the register avail able to the public. Given that Bermuda’s disclosure r egime already includes the disclosure of beneficial ownership information to the BMA, the Government of Bermuda agreed to consult with Bermuda’s major stakeholders in this sector and others on making that information available to the public.
Mr. Speaker, the UK Government updated its
G7 commitment by publishing its Action Plan in 2013. Paragraph 3 of the UK’s Action Plan includes a com-mitment to create a UK Beneficial Ownership Register and to consider whether or not the information shoul d
be made available to the public. The Bermuda G7
Beneficial Ownership Action Plan was published in
July 2013 citing the fact that Bermuda would review the public aspect of this proposal and that we would continue to work with international bodies in other jurisdictions on sharing information on Bermuda’s ap-proach and expertise in this area, as set out in par agraph 7 of the Bermuda G7 Plan.
In 2014 the G20 published its High- Level
Principles on Beneficial Ownership Transparency. Principle 4 requires all countries to “ensure that com-petent authorities . . . have timely access to adequate,
accurate, and current information regarding the beneficial ownership of legal persons.” Given that the FATF Guidance Notes and the G20 Principles do not require the informat ion to be made public, the Government of
the UK elected to enter into bilateral information ex-change agreements with Overseas Territories and
Crown Dependencies.
Mr. Speaker, the outcome of the negotiations
is set down in the exchange of notes between the UK
Government and the Bermuda Government in respect
of the sharing of beneficial ownership information dat-ed April 9, 2016. The exchange of notes requires the
participants to hold adequate, accurate , and current
beneficial ownership information for corporate and
legal entities on a secure central data base or similarly effective arrangement. Paragraph 7 of the technical protocol requires that the Bermuda Monetary Authority provide the information within 24 hours of the submi ssion of a request for information unless it is notified that the request for information is urgent, in which case the Authority is required to provide the infor-mation sought of it within one hour.
Mr. Speaker, key aspects of the amendments
are as follows:


Bermuda House of Assembly The Limited Partnership Act 1883, the E xempted Partnership Act 1992, and the Limited Liability
Company Act 2016 include provisions that state that the consent of the Authority is not required to register a partnership, to form a partnership, or to admit a partner where the partner is seeking to register, to form or admit a partner have engaged the service of a
corporate service provider that holds an unlimited l icence issued under the Corporate Service Provider
Business Act 2012 (what we will call the CSP Act). It is proposed to amend these Acts to impose a filing requirement as follows:
• The Limited Partnership Act 1883 will be
amended to provide that where a limited par tnership makes an appointment or change of a
general partner, it shall notify the Authority of
such appointment or change on a forthwith
basis and the appointment or change shall not
take effect until the date of receipt by the A uthority of the notification.
• The Exempted Partnership Act 1992 will be
amended to provide that where an exempt
partnership makes an appointment or change
of a general partner, it shall notify the Author ity of such appointment or change on a fort hwith basis and the appointment or change
shall not take effect until the date of receipt by
the Authority of the notification.
• The Limited Liability Company Act 2016 shall
be amended to provide that where a limited l iability company having its registered office at
the registered office of a licensed corporate service provider issues or transfers an LLC i nterest, they shall notify the Authority of such appointm ent or change on a forthwith basis
and the appointment or change shall not take effect until the date of the receipt by the A uthority.

Mr. Speaker, not all issuances or transfers of
equity shares require express permission of the Authority as set out in the notice published by the A uthority on the 1
st of June 2005. For example, any issue
of or transfer of equity shares that is less than 10 per
cent the Authority has given a general permission for
free transferability of shares. Other examples include
comp anies listed on a recognised stock exchange and
investment funds. Going forward, general permission
will be given in respect of those companies that e ngage a corporate service provider to clarify these r equirements.
Mr. Speaker, for our local companies, benef icial ownership information is provided at the time of incorporation. Thereafter, local companies are r equired to make annual filings of shareholdings to ver ify that these companies continue to meet the 60/40 requirements. The Honourable House is advised that a joint consultation paper has been issued by the Mi nistry of Finance, the Ministry of Economic Develo p-ment, and the Bermuda Monetary Authority to adjust
further requirements for local companies.
Mr. Speaker , similar filing obligations will be
impos ed on companies, where relevant, as well as
corporate service providers under the Exchange Co ntrol Amendment Regulations 2017 and the Corporate
Service Provider Business Beneficial Owner Regul ations 2017. The regulations are subject to the negative resolut ion process. Accordingly, the House is advised
that the Exchange Control Amendment Regulations 2017 were published in the official Gazette on 12 May 2017 under BR/50. The Corporate Service Provider Business Beneficial Owner Regulations 2017 shall be
publis hed as soon as possible after the Bill is enacted
and comes into effect.
Mr. Speaker, the Ministry of Finance completed three phases of consultation in 2014 and again in
2016/17. The Ministry has resolved all material issues with the exception of the requirement to file beneficial
ownership information on a forthwith basis and that
the notification sent to the Authority shall have effect as of the date of the receipt by the Authority. The Mi nistry is advised that the meaning the Ministry of Legal Affairs ta kes as application to the term “forthwith” in
legislation is “directly, promptly or within a reasonable
time in the circumstances ”.
Mr. Speaker, the Ministry together with the
Authority takes the view that in order to preserve Bermuda’s reputation and the integrity of the Benef icial Ownership Register together with the requirement
of urgent turnaround times that the UK/Bermuda exchange of notes requires, the requirement to file ow nership information with the Authority on a forthwith basis cannot be underestimated. The Honourable House is advised that paragraph 9 of the technical protocol to the exchange of notes imposes a requir ement on the Premier and the UK Secretary of State to review the operation of this arrangement in consult ation with law enforcement agencies six months after
their coming into force and annually thereafter. In a ddition, section 9 of the UK Criminal Finances Act 2017
imposes an additional requirement on the UK Government to publish a report and lay a copy of it before the UK Parliament .
Mr. Speaker, while a commitment to report externally on this issue in itself will reduce the need for anyone to second- guess the Bermuda framework or
to make assumptions to fill their communications gap, it also acts as a report card on our performance.
Mr. Speaker, the quality of Bermuda’s reput ation will depend to a large extent on the quality of the new reporting requirements.
Mr. Speaker, it is also important to note that
paragraph 5 of the Schedule of Corporate Service Provider Business Act 2012 (the CSP Act) imposes an
obligation on corporate service providers where such “undertaking carries on activities in relation to compa-ny formation, partnership establishment or the transfer or issuance of shares or partnership interests” . . . to
1722 19 May 2017 Official Hansard Report

Bermuda House of Assembly “carry on such activities in a manner that will not tend
to bring the reputation of Bermuda as an international
financial centre into disrepute.”
The Bill not only increases the regulatory
scope of the Authority by way of a framework that makes sense for Bermuda, but it also aims to improve
compliance with record- keeping requirements under
the CSP Act and the enforcement framework, includ-ing the Proceeds of Crime Framework.
Mr. Speaker, the House is advised that all
Overseas Territories and Crown Dependencies are require d to meet the same commitments, although the
UK has not set down a mandate for the delivery
mechanism to be identical. The effective date of the
UK/Bermuda exchange of notes is no later than the 30
th June 2017.
Mr. Speaker, Bermuda benefits by having our
own legislative regime which maintains equivalence to the UK regime while adjusting the privacy, data pr otection, and speed to market that are concerns of the industry, particularly, double vetting. Mr. Speaker , this
is the last piece of the puzzle in the long required
change by the industry in Bermuda to remove double vetting of incorporation of companies . . . and this is
the last piece of the puzzle.
Honourable Members are advised that the UK
Register of Beneficial Ownership Information came into effect on April 1, 2016. Unlike other G20 countries, the UK has taken steps to make its register ac-cessible to the public in part. The UK regime includes
a regime for suppressing information on those circumstances where there is a serious risk of violence or intimidation, for example, on a case by case basis. Assessments will be made by the UK Registrar of Companies after consultation with UK law enforc ement agencies.
Given Bermuda’s 70 years of experience in
this area, we have determined that the exchange of notes, together with our operating and information retention requirements , is adequate for Bermuda.
Mr. Speaker, although the Bill is on track to
meet the 30
th June 2017 deadline with the UK, there is
a more urgent deadline to meet regarding Bermuda’s 2016 OECD Assessment, which is currently under-way. The Assessment includes recommendations covering matters related to the corporate service pr ovider sector. The proposed Bill is a key component of
the CSP regime to the extent that the Authority will be
able to commence a licensing process without creat-ing a gap in the beneficial ownership data currently held by them.
Mr. Speaker , I wish to express my sincere
thanks to the Regulatory Unit of the Ministry of F inance in this initiative, together with the Treaty Unit
and the BMA, the National Anti -Money Laundering
Office, and the Attorney General’s Chambers.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker . I invite Honourable
Member s to comment.

All right. Thank you, Minister.
Any other Honourable Member . . . yes, the
Chair wil l recognise the Honourable Member from
constituency 6, MP Wayne Furbert. You have the
floor.

Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Thank you, Mr. Speaker .
Mr. Speaker, I am sure the Minister has had
to battle over this one, particularly when we are a lways under attack . . . coming from the OECD or any
other body that believes that we are living either b eyond our means or that we are not taxing fairly , et
cetera, et cetera, et cetera, the list goes on. And I am sure the Minister . . . I heard him say that he will not
go too far . . . we had to go far, we had to go take another step in another direction, which I am sure this
side will enjoy that step. But it is a compromise.
I believe that the Government has reached a
good compromise for us to work in. I am sure this is
not the end. Sometime in the future they will be coming with more restrictions and more regulations that they want us to abide by. And, again, I would like to also thank the team that, I am sure, worked day and night to protect our interests. It is not easy, particularly
when you have got, like I said . . . possible threats
over your head, so I believe that the compromise that the Government has made is in the best interests of Bermuda and I thank them and also the legal team for working in that direction. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Sp eaker .
Just very quickly, a question for the Honour able Finance Minister, clearly Bermuda is going to face
persistent challenges in this regard and [it will require]
all the abilities of the Government and the technical staff to push back where it needs to push back in this regard. At some point there needs to be a much fir mer, even I dare say, a collective response to the cha llenges presented to Bermuda and our economic live-lihood. And I am just wondering if the Minister has at
some point begun or considered commencing a set of
discussions that will lead to what might be a more ap-propriate political solution to this persistent challenge to our livelihood by entities that have no regard for the challenges we face and the delicacy of the sensitive business arrangements that we need to enter into.

I appreciate it, Honourable Member .
Are there any other Honourable Members that
would care to speak?
Minister.

Hon. E. T. (Bob) Richards: Thank you, Mr. Speaker .
The Honourable Member who just took his
seat, his remarks reminded me of one of my favourite
Winston Churchill quotes ––when I say that I know the
Honourable Premier is going to cringe because every time I look . . . I am quoting Winston Churchill. But one
of my favourite quotes is when he said after the Battle
of Britain, that this is not the end, this is not the begi nning of the end, but it might be the end of the beginning. This is not the end —in this case —this is not the
end and it is not the beginning of the end and it is not the end of the beginning, it is a continuing campaign
whose end is not in sight. And I believe that, in view of
the fire power of Bermuda versus the fire power of our adversaries, if you put it that way, our best strategy is to do what we are doing because we cannot have a frontal . . . we cannot have a frontal assault with our
adversaries because we are out -gunned, so we have
to keep doing these things to keep them at bay, to keep ourselves in business, and to keep our livelihood there.

[Inaudible interjection]
Hon. E. T. (Bob) Richards: Pardon me?
[Inaudible interjection]
Hon. E. T. (Bob) Richards: That is right. Do not forget David and Goliath . . . David and Goliath was a
nice story, but not necessarily applicable to this situation. So, and you know, perhaps if we had the inspir ation of the good Lord on our side on a battle, we might win, but I am not willing to bet on that at this point.

[Inaudible interjection]
Hon. E. T. (Bob) Richards: So, I believe so, but I am
not sure about it in this particular battle.
So, with those words, Mr. Speaker , I would
like the Bill to be committed.

Members, we ar e now in Committee
of the whole House for further consideration of the Bill
entitled
Partnership and Limited Liability Company
(Beneficial Ownership) Amendment Act 2017 . I call on
the Minister in charge.
Finance Minister, you have the floor.

Hon. E. T. (Bob) Richards: Thank you, Madam
Chairman.
Madam Chairman, I would like approval to
move all four clauses please.

It is has been proposed to move all
four clauses.
Any objections to that motion?
No objections.
Please proceed.
Hon. E. T. (Bob) Richards: Thank you, Madam
Chairman.
Clause 1 is the citation for the Bill.
Clause 2 amends the Limited Partnership Act
1883 in section 5 to insert subsection (1B) to provide
that where a limited partnership makes an appoint-ment of a general partner, it shall notify the Authority of such appointment in such manner as the Authority
may direct and that the appointment shall not take effect until the date of receipt by the Authority of the notification. Clause 2 further amends the Limited Partnership Act in section 8B to insert subsection (3D) to provide that where a limited partnership makes a change of a general partner, it shall notify the Author ity of such change in such manner as the Authority
may direct and that the change of the general partner shall not take effect until the date of receipt by the A uthority of the notification.
Clause 3 amends the Exempted Partnerships
Act 1992 in section 8 to provide a filing regime for an exempted partnership when an exempted partnership makes an appointment or change of a general par tner. The partners will be required to notify the Author ity of such appointment or change in such a manner as
the Authority may direct and that the appointment or
change of the general partner shall not take effect until the date of receipt by the Authority .
Clause 4 deals with amendments to the Li mited Liability Company Act 2016. Clause 4 amends
section 45 of the LLC Act in section 7 to insert sub-section (7A) to provide that where a limited liability
company having its registered office at the registered office of a Licensed Corporate Service Provider issues or transfers an LLC interest, it shall notify the Authority of such issue or transfer in such manner as the A uthority may direct and that the issue or transfer of the LLC interest shall not take effect until the date of r e1724 19 May 2017 Official Hansard Report

Bermuda House of Assembly ceipt by the Authority of the notification.
With those descriptions of the four clauses,
Madam Chairman, I invite Honourable Members to
comment if they want.

It has been moved that the preamble
be approved.
Any objections to that motion?
No objections.
Agreed to.
[Gavel]

Hon. E. T. (Bob) Richards: Madam Chairman, I
would like to move that the Bill be reported to the House as printed.

The Ch airman: It has been moved that the Bill be r eported to the House as printed.
Any objections to that motion?
No objection.
Agreed to.
[Gavel]

[Motion carried: The Partnership and Limited Liability
Company (Beneficial Ownership) Amendment Act 2017 was considered by a Committee of the whole
House and passed without amendment.]

Hon. E. T. (Bob) Richards: Thank you, Madam
Chairman.

House resumed at 3:26 pm

[Hon. K. H. Randolph Horton, Speaker, in the Chair]

REPORT OF COMMITTEE

PARTNERSHIP AND LIMITED L IABILITY
COMPANY (BENEFICIAL OWNERSHIP)
AMENDMENT ACT 2017

Okay, Members, the second reading of
the Partnership and Limited Liability Company (Beneficial Ownership) Amendment Act 2017 has been a pproved.
Order No. 8 is carried over.
Order No. 9 is carried over.
Order No. 10 is carried over.
And Order No. 11 is carried over.
And I think the Opposition wanted to do Order
No. 14, all right?

[Inaudible interjection]

Any objections to that?
Carry on.
Hon. Michael J. Scott: I thank you, Mr. Speaker , and
Honourable Members of the House.


Bermuda House of Assembly Mr. Speaker, the Opposi tion’s Decriminalis ation of Cannabis Bill 2017, as the title indicates, has
as its singular aim ending in these islands the crim inalisation of persons found in possession of small
amounts of cannabis and the attendant official long-term impact of criminal records for possession on per-sons —

Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: Excuse me, Mr. Speaker .
Hon. Michael J. Scott: —employability —
Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: Sorry.

All right. Okay then, Member.
Hon. Michael J. Scott: Sir, I was indicating that the
Opposition’s Bill— the Decriminalisation of Cannabis
Bill— has, as its title indicates , the singular aim of ending in these islands the criminalisation of persons
found in possession of small amounts of cannabis and
the attendant official long- term impact of criminal records for possession on persons’ employability, mobil ity, and travel through the United States or Canada
borders. And generally, Mr. Speaker, the ending of the official policy of uneven arrest rates, prosecutions ,
and sentencing of a segment of our Bermuda society even though a broader segment of our society is e ngaged in the use of cannabis.
Now, Mr. Speaker, at one and the same time
the Opposition Bill does not disapply the section 6 offence of possession of any controlled drug prov isions, section 6 being the provision in the principal Act
that proscribes possession as an offence. It does not disapply the section 6 offence of possession of any controlled drug provisions found in the principal Act
either unevenly or discriminatorily.
Rather, the policy of the Bill is to preserve the
statutory prohibition relative to possession, but to d ecriminalise small amounts of cannabis only.
Mr. Speaker , turning to the Law itself, the
principal Act is the Misuse of Drugs Act and with the assistance of Honourable and Learned Members of the community, including our Independent Member and former Attorney General, Mr. Pettingill, (who
brought a number of matters to my attention), we will
take some and make some important changes to the nomenclature of the Bill now under heading, but let me forge on.
So, turning to the Law itself, the Misuse of
Drugs Act 1972, the principal Act makes general pr ovision, Mr. Speaker, to criminalise the posses sion,
handling, preparation, production and misuse, cultiva-tion of controlled drugs, of which cannabis is sched-uled as one of the variety of controlled substances.
Mr. Speaker, the Decriminalisation of Cannabis Bill 2017 amends the Misuse of Drugs Act 1972 to
remove criminality and the criminal sanctions for the possession of small amounts of cannabis by any per-son who is found in possession of cannabis that does not exceed the specified scheduled amount. That small amount has been pegged in this Bill at 7 grams.
This is a most conservative amount, Mr. Speaker, we
say, given the fact that 28 grams is generally seen as
the amount of controlled drug—cannabis —that in law,
in many other jurisdictions and countries, is deemed as the quantity for “simple possession” and that amount is sanctioned as “simple possession.”
And so, in Bermuda, Mr. Speaker . . .Mr.
Speaker , do you have a copy of my brief? I hope —

Yes.
Hon. Michael J. Scott: Good. Thanks.
In Bermuda, Mr. Speaker , the amount of
scheduled cannabis deemed for supply is 20 grams.
That is in our principal Act of 1972. The Bill has capped the gram weight for decriminalisation at 7 grams.
Mr. Speaker, just going briefly to the Oppos ition Decriminalisation Bill, there is clause 1 which is the citation, but dealing with the law still, [section] 6 of the principal Act deals with possession of controlled drugs. It provides that, “Subject to any regulations un-der section 12 for the time being in force, no person
shall have a controlled drug in his possession.” So
that, as I had indicated, is the proscribing section of the principal Act, proscribing possession.
Subsection (2) of section 6 provides that,
“Subject to section 29, it is an offence for a person to have a controlled drug in his possession in c ontrave ntion of subsection (1).”
And subsection (3) of section 6 provides that,
“Subject to section 29, it is an offence for a person to have a controlled drug in his possession, whether la wfully or not, which is intended, whether by him or some other person, for supply in contravention of section
5(1).”
Clause 2 amends section 6 of the principal
Act to decriminalise the possession of cannabis in
amounts that are lower than the statutory amount that is deemed for supply and is set out in Schedule 7 of the principal Act and provides that criminal sanctions
1726 19 May 2017 Official Hansard Report

Bermuda House of Assembly will not apply to possession of the drug cannabis in
amounts up to the schedule amount of 7 grams.
And so what we seek to do in this Bill with
statutory language is to remove the criminality for
possessio n up to 7 grams by any person. And we
know that this will capture the target group that we know and have been seeing have been unevenly targeted for possession and have their lives brought to
grief across many fronts and so . . . and hence, the
policy focus of this Bill.
Mr. Speaker, the Independent Members of the
House have drawn to my attention . . . drawn to the Opposition’s attention, that [clause 3] of the Oppos ition Bill allows dealing in drugs in amounts up to 7 grams as being unsanctionable. Now, that was not
the policy of the Opposition Bill. It was simply to de-criminalise and remove criminalisation of small quant ities of drugs, namely 7 grams of drugs. So I am grat eful to my honourable and learned friends, the Honourable Member for constituency 31, and Mr. Pettingill,
the former Attorney General. So that will be the sub-ject of an amendment. And there may be some others that I am going to leave to the Honourable Member . . .
I believe it will be the Honourable and Learned Member from constituency 25, Mr. Pettingill, to deal with
some amendments.
So we are grateful to the Honourable and
Learned Members for picking up this point and we shall make the amendments in due course. But the simple solution will be to leave section 7(2)(b) of the
principal Act u ntouched.
Section 25, Mr. Speaker, of the principal Act
contains a statutory platform for law enforcement and
punishment of offences. It provides for the statutory power assigned to law enforcement bodies, namely, a police officer or other persons authorised (e.g., special
constables and customs officers) by either a special or
general order of the Commissioner of Police to enter premises, search and detain persons for the purposes of searching him or her, powers to enter premises suspected of carrying on a drug business, and to
search any vehicle or vessel suspected of containing drugs or equipment, to seize and detain anything or any article which appears to that officer liable to se izure.
And so, Mr. Speaker, section 25, as it curren tly exists, provides a broad and adequate set of po wers and platform for the police to operate broadly and across most, if not all, of the circumstances that will be encountered in our Bermuda setting.
Mr. Speaker, that said, clause 4 inserts a new
section, section 25— and I am grateful for the assi stance in this regard to the Honourable and Learned
Member for constituency 34, my colleague, Ms. Kim
Wilson, for championing this element of the Bill —so in
section 25 we seek to make an amendment to add the
words in the principal Act, “or other persons” . . . I beg
your pardon, I am a little ahead of myself. This was an amendment that is coming. We will amend section 25 to add 25A to amend, to add the words to the principal
Act “or other person authorised in that behalf by general or special order of the Commissioner of Police.”
So that rubric or that language is adopted
from the language that is contained in the principal Act and it helps to make this Act synchronised with the search and seizure powers. It is this . . . it is the poin t
that I come to on the Minister’s regulations to deal with minors, but I am a little ahead of myself; I will come to it in a moment.
So, the Minister can make regulations, Mr.
Speaker , under section 25A(b) of this Bill for the Mi nister to make regulations that enable mandatory drug
education or drug treatment in respect of a minor found in possession of up to 7 grams of cannabis. So it is to this point of the Bill and aspect of the Bill that I wish to commend and give my . . . to recognise the
contribution from the Honourable and Learned Member, Ms. Wilson. And I thank her for it.
But, Mr. Speaker , Schedule 7 of the principal
Act sets out the statutory amounts of controlled drug to be deemed for supply and they include: heroin (D iamorphine) is 1 gram; cocaine is 1 gram; cannabis 20 grams (as I had earlier referred to) and Methylenedioxymethamphetamine, 4 tablets or 1 gram. And clause 5 inserts a Schedule 8 that specifies that the Bill’s new threshold amount of cannabis is 7 grams, which is decriminalised by the Bill, and for which cri minal sanctions will not apply and, indeed, some regu-lated regimes of treatment are linked. And there will
be a correction made to one element of that Schedule.
Mr. Speaker, there is an important historical
context having to do with the fair and even administr ation of justice in Bermuda that is at the basis of t oday’s Decriminalisation Bill of 2017. It is a context that
has been seen in other countries, notably the United
States of America, but we need not go that far away
as Bermuda clearly has its own unique historical con-text.
Pausing there, Mr. Speaker, may I take note
and underscore that the Bill does not sanction or encourage minor persons under the age of 18 years of
age down even from 17 to 12 years of age, to use this Bill today as a shield or indeed a sword to wield before hapless and/or helpless parents to say we can smoke cannabis. No doubt children—boys and girls —
[will] try this on, using this to challenge the parental
control now that the Bill takes 7 grams of weed out of
the criminality framework.
Mr. Speaker, underage minors or adolescents
are put on notice that the Bill is not giving them licence or an argument with which to combat or thwart parental control or parents who do not approve of their
children using any cannabis whatsoever. Since pr eserved in the Opposition’s Bill is the power of the p olice to seize drugs from all persons, including young
people, and in the case of minors, track them to treatment regimens designated by the Minister.


Bermuda House of Assembly So my response, Mr. Spe aker, to the comm unity and parents is to control and deal with your chi ldren just as you would control them with the use or
imbibing of either beer or alcoholic drinks. And if your parental rule is no drinking of legal substances until an adult, the same rule applies with respect to 7 grams of cannabis. But the benefit attaching to the decriminal isation is that your child cannot be arrested and hauled before the courts and convicted of possession as this Opposition Bill makes . . . by express statutory la nguage possession of 7 grams non- criminal or subject
to criminal sanction and, therefore, by necessary i mplication of law, not the subject of criminal prosec ution.
This, Mr. Speaker , I say with great respect, is
a matter that parents ought to welcome and cel ebrate.
Mr. Speaker, the treaty. Mr. Speaker, a word
about the . . . and on the Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs of 1961. This is an international treaty to
prohibit production and supply of specific nominally narcotic drugs and of drugs with similar effects, except under license for specific purposes, such as medical treatment and research.
The Single Convention has been used as the
basis for standardisation of National Drug Control laws, in particular, the United States Controlled Sub-stances Act 1970, [and] the United Kingdom Misuse of
Drugs Act 1971 were designed to fulfil treaty obliga-tions. Different nations have drawn different concl usions as to whether the treaty requires criminalisation
of drug possession for personal use. It is clear whet her . . . it is unclear . . . I beg your pardon, Mr. Speaker ,
it is unclear whether or not the treaty requires crim inalisation of drug possession for personal use. The
treaty’s language is ambiguous and a ruling by the
International Court of Justice would probabl y be r equired to settle this matter authoritatively or decisively.
The Bermuda historic context —uneven arrest
and prosecution— is historical. Mr. Speaker , the histo ric context of the Bermuda Authority’s views on canna-bis can be traced back to a time when it was first off icially examined as a feature in the Bermuda social justice history. The civil disturbances of 1968, the BELCO riots, led to one of our earliest examinations of substance use or abuse in Bermuda of any signif icance.
Mr. Speaker , the Royal Commission into the
1968 BELCO unrest headed by Sir Hugh Wooding under the Wooding Commission is cited in the Pitt Report, and that is another seminal report. And that report, Mr. Speaker , was the Royal Commission into
the 1977 civil disturbances in Bermuda headed by Lord David Pitt. That report, Mr. Speaker , was the
Royal Commission’s Report into our civil disturbances in 1977. These reports, Mr. Speaker, provide an early insight into substance use and what in the 1970s was the commencement of dumping . . . dumping, Mr.
Speaker , of Class A drugs into this territory for the
singular agenda— aim—of destabilising the black community and possibly and probably parts of the
white community. But I wanted to just focus on the
black communities.
Mr. Speaker, ever since the Opium Wars in
Asia, China notably, or Watts Wars in California, USA, or Operation Trident in North England, destabilisation of ethnic minority communities by the dumping of
Class A drugs, or scheduled drugs, into those communities has been the official policy agenda of effec ting menticide of certain segments of these same
communities, including our own, save that in Bermuda the black population is the majority.
Returning closer to home, the Pitt Report had
this to say when citing the earlier report of t he Wooding Commission. The Wooding Commission was a ppointed 20 August 1968 to look at the causes of the BELCO disturbances, it concluded as follows: “Alcohol was a serious problem in Bermuda and considered excessive drinking a further reason for the absence of
men from the family household and for the lack of paternal influence in child- rearing. Marijuana (cannabis)
smoking was considered by the [Wooding] Commis-sion to ‘take the hat off people’s inhibitions and to obliterate self -criticism, thereby tending to lead to
thoughtless actions.’”
So that was the 1968 Commission, 1977
Wooding Commission. “In these contexts . . . alcohol
and drugs were seen as” a contributing cause “for the 1968 disturbances.”
But Lord Pitt in the 1977 Report said, “We
might add that subsequent research indicates that cannabis is not an addictive drug and is unlikely to have had quite the influence ascribed to it by the Wooding Commission.”
So 20 years on, Mr. Speaker, after the
BELCO riots, Bermuda, predictably, continued with
our struggle with the scourge of drugs being dumped
onto our shores. Then United Bermuda Party Go vernment Minister of Health and Family Services, the Honourable Quinton Edness, invited a Prison Inspec-tor, Judge Stephen Tumin to Bermuda and set for him
the following terms of reference in 1992:
a. “To review the Criminal Justice System and
the primary legislation which impacts on pri sons [incarceration].
b. “To review the Criminal Justice System pr ocedures and policies and make recommendations for sentencing alternatives.
c. “To investigate” [and this is the part that I wish
to underscore] “to investigate the perceptions
that persons of different races and different backgrounds are treated differently by the system.
d. “To review the Criminal Justice System with a
view for recommending how the country can change the emphasis from one of custody to correction.”

1728 19 May 2017 Official Hansard Report

Bermuda House of Assembly Twenty years after the BELCO disturbances,
Judge Tumin made the following telling observations:
iv. Bermuda is a country which relies heavily
upon the use of the fine and custody in dealing with offenders;
v. the use of custody appears disproportion-ately applied to black members of this
population [in Bermuda];
vi. a defining characteristic of the criminal
justice system is that it increasingly af-fects the young in the Island’s popu lation;
vii. the offences which bring young people i nto conflict with the law are often minor.
Almost invariably they have to do with i nfractions of traffic laws; and
viii. that the arrangements of dealing with
crime, other than by the use of custody, are not well de veloped.

Mr. Speaker, our history in the area of even
dispensation of justice has been dire, as reflected in the observations of independent investigations of the drug issue. Police attitudes in the ’70s, both uncon-sciously or consciously, will have ascribed to and
adopted the views of drug use of that time and been
reflected in police policies of search and seizures dur-ing the ’70s, ’80s, and ’90s. And how successful have we been today in weaning attitudes and outlooks off such dire impressions in segments of our society is a matter for debat e. That is a direct quote from the . . .
from Professor Quito Swan in his book Black Power in Bermuda[:The Struggle for Decolonization] .
Certainly this decriminalisation Bill is excl usively about addressing historic uneven arrest and prosecution policies that target one section of our s ociety over another.
Mr. Speaker, President Barack Obama had
this to say when speaking to his support of legalising cannabis for medical use in Colorado and Washington, this is what President Obama said, It was i mportant for the legalisation of marijuana to go forward in those states to avoid a situation in which only a few
are punished while a large portion of people who have broken the law at one time or another . . . The Pres ident said he is troubled at the disproportionate number of arrests and imprisonments of minorities for m arijuana use. “Middle- class kids don’t get locked up for
smoking pot, and poor kids do,” he said. The “African-American kids and Latino kids are more likely to b e
poor and less likely to have the resources and the support to avoid unduly harsh penalties.”
He said in an interview that “users shouldn’t
be locked up for long stretches of time when people
writing drug laws ‘have probably done the same
thing.’”
The President, Mr. Speaker , was speaking to
an injustice in his own country. Some may well ob-serve that the decriminalisation Bill has many fathers and mothers, many citizens of Bermuda support the aims of seeking every chance to prevent our children
and young adults having a crippling criminal convi ction for cannabis. We can name President Obama as
a contributing father to these just and levelling aims and objectives of this Opposition Bill. And I wish to also join the late Judge Stephen Tumin, he came to Bermuda at the invitation of the then Government Mi nister Edness to complete his important work in this context, and so we name him as a contributing father. The Honourable Quinton Edness CBE, who invited Judge Tumin to Bermuda, we name him as a contri buting father to these lofty aims.
The historic context that leads now for the call
for decriminalisation of our young people in Bermuda . . . Tumin said this regarding drugs: “Abuse of drugs
of all kinds, including alcohol, is high . . . Probably a
majority of serious criminal offences are connected with drugs, or the acquisition of money to buy drugs. This means a continued need for imprisonment for the
illegal dealer, and active treatment for the user. One
will not work without the other, if the crime rate is to be reduced. A big fall in users would destroy the drug market.”
So we believe that Judge Tumin’s words have
been picked up in the policy aims of this Opposition Bill today.
Mr. Speaker, the third mandate of Judge
Tumin, or President Obama’s presidential rationale for legalisation of medical marijuana each speak power-fully to identifying justice disparities in our midst. In the
case of Judge Tumin, and in the United States in the
case of President Obama, and of righting injustice by legislation. Moreover, Mr. Speaker , it is just and right
that we do the right thing with this Opposition Bill. If there is no criminal record or penal record recorded against the young people of our Island, the United
States or Canada will have little or no legal basis for
excluding entry of our young people into the United
States for schooling, recreational or visitor travelling purposes, or even, indeed, for medical purposes.
Mr. Speaker, if prosecutors in Bermuda continue as they do . . . as they recently did in what has
become the tale of the two cannabis males in Febr uary 2016, then Parliament must act, and today the Opposition is acting.
With those brief comments, Mr. Speaker , I
commend the Decriminalisation of Cannabis Bill 2017
to the House for contributions.
Thank you.
The S peaker: All right. Thank you, Honourable Member.
The Chair will now recognise the Attorney
General. Attorney General Trevor Moniz, you have the
floor.

Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . And
I thank the Shadow Attorney General for sharing with
me his brief today.


Bermuda House of Assembly This has been a long story and, as Members
will know and I want the public to know, there is another Bill on the paper which takes a slightly different approach but has the same ultimate thrust as the Bill before us at the moment. And the Bill before us at the moment is a decriminalisation Bill, which seeks to d ecriminalise 7 grams of cannabis.
Every aspect of cannabis has been very hotly
contested and keenly discussed everywhere in Ber-muda, but certainly I have been at the epicentre of it
as Attorney General in consulting with the various de-partments of Government and the various agencies. The House will be aware and the public should be
aware that this was part of a Government initiative in a
Throne Speech to deal with small amounts of cannabis for personal use.
However, there are a lot of different points of
view in this. There are obviously the points of view of the Department of Health, the Chief Medical Officer, et
cetera, with respect to the health risks of cannabis
and what signal we might send to be legalising any amount of cannabis. There are certainly concerns with the Department of Public Prosecutions and, again, the House will be aware and the public will be aware that
earlier this year the Director of Public Prosecutions
had put in place a new cautioning policy with respect
to cannabis, and I had tasked him with that job in the early part of last year and it took about a year for it to come to fruition, which in my view unfortunately was too long and in the event it became overtaken by the
Opposition Bill. And that Bill, or the caution policy r efers to cautions being received for simple possession
of amounts of cannabis under the amount of 3 grams, which is the same amount which was in the depenal isation Bill of the Government .
So there were concerns with regard to the
amount of cannabis. The Shadow Attorney General has spoken to amounts around the world and, certai nly, I think he was saying 20 grams is the level at which it is automatically assumed that the amount you have is for supply rather than for personal consumption.
And there are a variety of laws around the world in places that legalise or decriminalise cannabis as to what level they will prosecute.
We have looked at one amount, 5 grams,
which was used in the Netherla nds. And there they do
it by way of prosecutorial guidelines. So it is not part
of their law, they keep it out of their law, but the prosecutors are instructed when someone is seen with an amount of cannabis of less than 5 grams then the i nstruction is not to prosecute. And there is an inherent
discretion resident in the prosecutor with regard to prosecutions.
Now, there were difficulties which we addressed and, you know, the Shadow Attorney General was perhaps a little bit remiss in not mentioning that we have had a number of meetings on this and I had
impressed upon the Shadow Attorney General that it was our desire, whatever measure went forward, to move forward together. In fact, he and I had a meeting
with the Director of Public Prosecutions, Larry
Mussenden, with respect to the caution policy earlier
this year when this Bill was first tabled, when the cau-tion policy was being issued, we had a meeting t ogether to discuss a way forward, what was the best way forward. And obviously the Director of Public
Prosecutions wanted to see his caution policy go forward to see how that worked in our community at an amount of 3 grams.
But I guess it is clear from today that the O pposition have seen that they want to forge ahead and that is the reason we tabled a Bill ourselves, because
we saw difficulties with decriminalisation. Now, you know, why are there those difficulties? The concern was that there are the treaties out there and there are three treaties: there is the Single Convention on Nar-cotic Drugs of 1961; t he Convention on Psychotropic
Substances of 1971; and the Convention against Illicit
Traffic in Narcotic Drugs and Psychotropic Substances of 1988.
And these treaties have all been extended to
Bermuda at our request. So, clearly, there would be a concern that whatever we agree in this House, that it
is not seen to be in breach of any of our convention responsibilities. And those are responsibilities that we have requested. They are not anything that is being imposed on us by anyone else.
Now, I certainly agree. Members have said to
me, Well, you know, views are changing. You are seeing different measures in different places . And we
have seen great confusion out there. If you look, par-ticularly in the United States, you had a position where there were states which were legalising or decriminal-ising cannabis and at a federal level it was and still is illegal. So there was a fundamental disagreement between the governments of some of the states and the
federal government.
And then- President Obama was clearly on the
side of the liberalism and the legalisation. He was quite open with his use of drugs earlier in his life,
which I think he freely admits was a problem and
something that he had to cure before he could move forward and become the man that he eventually b ecame —the great man that he eventually became. So
we can see the challenges that it causes. And now, of course, in the US there is a new administration and
you are . . . it is clear you are going to see more conflict between the federal government and the state
governments.
We have also seen to the north of the United
States in Canada where the new ultra- progressive,
ultra-liberal Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has a d esire to make wholesale changes with respect to legalising cannabis, and he wants to do more of what the Canadians do with respect to the government supply of it, which is what, in many areas, they do with alc ohol in Canada, where government largely controls the supply of alcohol. We have read the accounts of that
1730 19 May 2017 Official Hansard Report

Bermuda House of Assembly in the news media in Canada. And again, the issue
has been raised that it is going to be in breach of their
responsibilities, their obligations, under the three co nventions I have mentioned. He has put them squarely in the crosshairs of those conventions, where not only is the drug decriminalised, but the government will be
part of a scheme of the actual sale of the drug. And
we do not know; the jury is out on that one and where
it is going to go.
In the UK there have been a variety of
measures dealing with cannabis. You know, I think at one time it was Schedule B on their Misuse of Drugs Act; it was dropped to less serious on Schedule C. I
remember there were areas of reduced penalties in areas like Brixton and other areas. And then, of course, a new government arrived and they took it
back up from a Schedule C to a Schedule B and said it was a more serious drug. Now, over there they have a system of warnings and tickets before one is given a
criminal offence. And when I first came in as Attorney
General almost three years ago now, we had attempt-ed to do something like that and there was resistance
from the police because the police said, Well, that’s
bureaucratic. It involves too much work; we don’t want
to go with the British system. So that is when we next
moved to trying to revamp the caution policy which
had hit some difficulties.
And I think it is that lack of confidence that the
Opposition, and maybe the public, have in the admi nistration of the caution policy that leaves us where we are today, that people are speaking about dec riminalisation. If the caution policy worked smoothly and people accepted that it worked smoothly, you would not need to be where you are today because it basically makes the same provisions.
So the concern that I have, and I think, certainly, the Governor will have, and the Government
has, is that whatever we do in this place is compliant with the obligations we have under the various trea-ties. Now even in those spheres, you know, there is a shifting of attitudes. And the Shadow quite rightly r eferred to the first treaty and said that there was some lack of clarity as to exactly what it meant with respect to possession of small amounts of cannabis. And I accept that attitudes may be changing in that regard.
I am in a position as Attorney General where I
must signify to the Governor before he signs any
piece of legislation that it is not in contravention of any law in Bermuda, and I will have to examine this clos ely before I would sign such a document. It is possible I may decide that I am not able to sign the document, which, of course, does not mean necessarily the Go vernor will not be able to sign it into force. But I will certainly have to warn that there may be a breach of the
treaties as a result of the passing of legislation. And that is why we had sought the depenalisation route where the offence continued, but there is no penalty for it. So we thought that was a more elegant solution to the challenges faced in bringing in this law. Now, having said that, we obviously have to
send a message to the community. We are concerned with the approach of the Opposition on this in certain regards. We saw the same defects and deficiencies in the Opposition Bill that were seen by the Independent Members. And some of them very simple, like the naming of the Bill in the Bill did not match the actual
title. And the Shadow Attorney General is now saying
some of those are being corrected. There are still possibly some areas of concern which I have not had the opportunity to look at too closely.
One of the issues is with respect to minors.
You know, there is the suggestion that somehow they
can be required to do counselling, et cetera. But there
is certainly no framework for such a thing, and under the Constitution there would need to be some sort of judicial intervention or some sort of official judicial ap-proach whereby someone was . . . some independent
judicial body would have to order someone to undertake that so as not to be in breach of their human
rights and freedoms under the Bermuda Constitution Order. So just bear in mind that those are not as si mple.
There is also a suggestion from the Shadow
Attorney General that the police would still have the ability to seize the drug. And that one, I am afraid, foxes me a little bit. I think if you decriminalise it . . . if you say it is not an offence, it is not illegal for them to
have it, in that particular circumstance in their Bill I do not see how the police are going to be able to seize
the drug. And again, I will need to look more closely at
that and perhaps it can be explained to me.
We have been very concerned throughout this
process about the concern by people saying that . . .
you will, if this passes . . . and we had the same trouble with our Bill. People were saying, Well, now you
will see people smoking it everywhere. And we have a
great concern with that. The Government does not
want to be seen to be encouraging anyone to smoke drugs or to take drugs of any sort. And you have got this sort of tension within society because, on the one
hand, you have got a lot of people in jobs where they
are a drug free workplace. If you are found to have taken drugs you are going to lose your job, you are going to be terminated, you are going to be fired, be-cause you cannot do that job if you are under the i nfluence of drugs . . . you cannot operate heavy
equipment, you cannot operate . . . I do not want
someone who is stoned operating a chainsaw. Now, most of the drug tests you take, you know, you are going to fail if you have been smoking cannabis.
But also we have the perennial problem of
people smoking at public events, particularly at sports
fields, you know, where there are cricket games, football games, et cetera. We get continual complaints of people who take their children to sports events at pr ivate clubs and they complain and say, Well, all
around me people were smoking drugs, taking drugs, buying drugs, selling drugs. And the clubs quite often


Bermuda House of Assembly say, Well, there really is nothing we can do about it.
You can call the police if you want to, you know, try to
solve the problem. But I know that there was a great
battle by the BFA and, of course, our present DPP was a President of the Bermuda Football Association for many years and, you know, it was thought to be a battle that they were winning, but you do not want to
have a setback.
So there is this balance out there. We want
people to do things sensibly, do them in moderation.
We do not want to be seen in this House . . . and I am sure the Opposition and the Independent Members agree with this. You do not want to be seen to be e ncouraging people to take drugs, particularly people who are under the age of 18. You do not want to be encouraging people to be taking drugs at public events or in places where the public is, even if they are private clubs where other people are being ex-posed to something they do not wish to be exposed
to, particularly if they are young people.
So it is a much -fraught situation, and the
group that we found to be most concerned about this
were black females. You know, the Shadow Attorney
General went through the reports and said, Well, you
know, we are terribly concerned about the criminalis ation of black males by involvement with the drug trade.
But we have seen in the past serious concern with
black females of how drugs have become part of the fabric of a black male’s life. And the Shadow Attorney General spoke to the concerns that there was a co nspiracy, an intentional, at one period of time the dumping of drugs into ethnic areas in countries to
somehow break down those communities and to i mpact them in negative ways. Well, we would certainly have no part in this and we are trying to figure out how we discourage people from being involved in drugs.
You know, the classic Say No to Drugs . . .how they
can ruin your life.
And, you know, while for many people there is
always the thinking . . . like many things in life, there
are many people who can go out and either . . . let us
look at alcohol. There are many people who can go out and say, I simply don’t drink alcohol . The Honourable Member who sits next to me, Pat Gordon -
Pamplin, is one of those who can fraternise with people at places where they are drinking and she never has a drink. And, you know, I marvel to a degree.
There is a person that goes on and says, I’m not pa rtaking, but I’m having fun with everyone else . . . and
probably having more fun than everyone else and not
shy about that at all.
And then there are those people who can go
along and have a drink and be in total control and be
responsible and not have a problem. But . . . but, we
all know other people, amongst our friends and in our families, who have a lack of control and once they partake they lose even more control. And that is the question society faces. How do you control those people? You constantly hear of stories . . . and with cannabi s, of people who say, Well, I have to . . . you
know, I smoke every day. And some people say, Well, I don’t just smoke every day, I smoke every morning, I smoke every lunch time, and I smoke every evening and that is what does it for me. And you sincerely worry about their health, you worry about their ability to carry on a livelihood, you worry about them supporting
and interfacing with their families and friends in a pr oductive and healthy fashion. So there are concerns
out there among the community.
We o n this side of the House take a careful
approach to this . . . a very careful approach. And that
is why the amount that you see figured in our Bill is
3 grams, whereas the amount in the Opposition Bill is
7 grams. And 7 grams, I think, is referred to as a quarter of an ounce, which is the 28
th. So we thought it
easier to go with a conservative figure of 3 grams,
which is the same figure that the Director of Public Prosecutions Larry Mussenden came up with when he
did his year -long study interfacing with Nat ional Sec urity, with the Police, with his prosecutors. He came up
with that figure of 3 grams. And they talked about how
many twists it will supply and whether a person is lik ely to be a dealer or not a dealer if he is carrying a certain amount of cannabis. So, we took a conservative
approach of 3 [grams]. We looked at a higher amount of 5 [grams], which is the amount, I think, used in the
Netherlands in their prosecutorial guidelines.
So while on this side of the House I have
stressed . . . I have had two or three meetings with my
opposite Member, the Shadow Attorney General, sa ying that I wanted to go forward hand in hand on this, but we could not with the Bill as it was. There are a number of amendments which he said will be pr oposed today. I have had a chance to see those amendments, and they do regularise some of the
more serious defects and deficiencies in the Bill. We
on this side still favour a more cautious approach. But the feeling of the taking of the temperature on the floor is that he has the votes to pass his measure today.
And so, having said that, I just warn that I am
not sure that this Bill will pass muster all the way through. You know, he has taken some advice. Other advice he has not taken. And it may pass muster, but it may not. And that is why we felt safer with a Bill that
we felt confident would pass muster all the way through the system —not just through the House, but
through the Senate and with the Governor as well. It would not be seen as being in breach of any of those treaties. A very conservative approach admittedly, but you know we hold the health and safety of this com-munity in very high regard and we do not play with it carelessly. So we on this side are very cautious in our
approach, we are very concerned about these things.
One other area I would like to mention, and I
was lucky enough to be invited to the documentary film A Piece of the Rock on Sunday. The Opposition
spokesman for Tourism and Transport, MP Lawrence
Scott, was there with me. We were both invited to be
1732 19 May 2017 Official Hansard Report

Bermuda House of Assembly on a panel. And there we were talking about toughening laws with respect to alcohol abuse with people
who are using alcohol and driving vehicles. At that time the Shadow Minister, Lawrence Scott, was bold enough to say that he was in support of roadside s obriety testing, which has been something that we feel will make a big dent, certainly, in alcohol abuse with
respect to people who are going out and driving on
the roads and in some cases, unfortunately, killing themselves.
In fact, it was pointed out to us that the nu mber of road deaths —the deaths on our roads —are
three times the deaths by shootings or gang deaths in
Bermuda. And we take a huge amount of effort, we
spend a huge amount of money on dealing with gang violence, and yet we spend relatively little mone y on
dealing with cutting down the deaths on our roads. Now, of course, when people drive on the road and they have taken alcohol, in some cases they have
also been smoking cannabis. So you get people who
are unfit to be driving because they have been smo king cannabis or they have been smoking cannabis and drinking alcohol, et cetera.
So these are huge concerns of ours. And I do
not want anyone to suggest that this Government is not cognisant of the very real risk to our society by these drugs, either the legal drug of alcohol or the presently illegal drug of cannabis or, of course, other illegal drugs. As I said before, there are some people who can either not consume and there are some people who can consume in moderation and be sensible
and not drive, but there are other people who seem to
be unable to control their impulses once they are un-der the influence of alcohol or cannabis or any other substance. And those become not just a risk to them-selves but a risk to others. And then not only that, but
are they able to then properly support their loved
ones, their families?
As was pointed out in the film, in the case of a
death, of course, it is not just the person who dies. It is the damage that it does to their whole family structure.
It is the damage it does to their spouse, to their chi ldren, to their broader family. And in terms of cost,
even worse than that, are people who are incapacitat-ed, who are paralyzed, who lose limbs, who have brain damage from road [accidents], et cetera. And I think this is som ething that weighs heavily upon the
Government and I think should weigh heavily upon all of us. So we have to take measures to ensure that public safety, public health, is maintained in dealing with all of these matters.
So we in broad terms support the idea of people being able to possess small amounts of cannabis
without facing criminal offences and a criminal record— we support that. We think that the amount as a
beginning amount is too high. We would prefer to see 3 grams. We think that there are difficulties still with
the conventions, even though attitudes seem to be softening, even at the United Nations with respect to this. It will be interesting to see what the outcome of
the Canada experiment is. So, with a number of riders
we would like to say that we are in support of the general idea and we will listen closely as the debate pr oceeds.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker .

Thank you, Mr. Speaker .
Now that same- sex marriage is behind us in a
sense, and I have addressed on a number of occ asions casino gaming, and I am now here, again, we
are somewhat at the forefront with regard to marijua-na. Maybe my friend and I over here should be the liberal Independent party, I do not know. I have a lways said I am liberal when it comes to all those things, but I do not actually indulge in any of them. But maybe that is what being a true liberal is about.
Mr. Speaker, it is a difficult one, this issue. I
raised it as Attorney General four years or so ago
now, very, very early on in my tenure, that it was time
to have a debate on it, that it was time to have the conversation on it. And you know, there you go, that was years ago that we had that at least being prof-fered as a way to go forward.
The Government brought a couple of amendments hitting at the issue of medicinal marijuana, which has been propagated around the world as a significant form of medication for people who are suf-fering from a number of ailments. And it has actually been proven to be significant with regard to the treat-ment of a number of ailments in a clinical and sensible
approach way.
I am greatly obliged to my honourable and
learned f riend, Mr. Scott, for sharing, you know, his
thoughts and views in this regard. I am also greatly
obliged for the fact that, you know, I had the chance to
review the proposed Bill by the Opposition. And I anticipate that I will lay some amendments in this House
for consideration. And I have had the opportunity to discuss those with the Honourable and Learned Attor-ney General and also with the Leader of the Gover nment in relation to what I would propose as helping,
perhaps, if the House is agreeable, to move it in the
right direction.
Those are not criticisms by any means. And I
know that they are not being taken in that sense. They
are based on the basis of assessment and consider ation and conversations with the serious stakeholders
in relation to this issu e. I know that despite amendments and despite other things it is not going to be a
fix with regard to the issue of marijuana, the legalis ation of marijuana, and how we address a multitude of things that relate to that issue.


Bermuda House of Assembly My own view is, and I have said it before, the
main issue is . . . and one of the particular main issues
and the concerns . . . and I had these discussions
when I was the Attorney General with the US Attorney General who, at the time under Barack Obama, was Eric Holder. I have had them at senior levels in the FCO [Foreign and Commonwealth Office] in London. I
have had them with our current Governor. I had them
with the previous Governor. You know, my own view is that addressing it is to go the way of legalised per-sonal cultivation, licensed, because at least you cut out the criminal element of where you are going to get it from. You license it and you start to move in the d irection of a degree of control.
I notice that alcohol and marijuana get mentioned in the same breath. And the fact of the matter is that when we look at the problems that, historically, countries have had with alcohol, and I take the US in the ’20s as an example with prohibition, it drives it underground. It drives it underground and creates more
of a criminal element t o it . . . more criminal problems,
because people are going to do and get what they want to do and get. And I think history, which we have to learn from, has told us that if you go to the level of
over control then you are going to have problems. And
many, many people . . . the reason the US has gone
the way it has is that the war on drugs is lost. It is lost in Bermuda; it is lost in other jurisdictions. And if an ything we need to be putting our money into education and treatment.
And the one thing that at least we have star ted to get right over the years in relation to alcohol is that . . . you know, I mean, I was reading a book r ecently and basically alcohol is poison. And that in-cludes all the wine and everything that I might like to drink, and anybody else up here . . . it really is. Clin ically, it is poison. You know, there are some, maybe, some minor health benefits, but it is not great for you.
People tend to consume too much. And it is
not, at the end of the day, something that is really, really good for you, especially if you get to the point
where it is having an impact on you. But we do have
in place, we have accepted that it is something that people have wanted, they have wanted it for cent uries, thousands of years. The same thing with marij uana, people would say, and with other forms of drugs.
People have wanted it; they have done it culturally for
centuries. And so we have, through the course of
time, developed laws to address the mischief of alc ohol as best we can, and we continue to develop la ws
to address the mischief of alcohol.
You know, we are talking about roadside tes ting now, which is something that I advocated, again,
as Attorney General some years ago—a good idea.
Roadside checks and these types of things, we have talked about that. We certainly have massive campaigns and support groups in relation to alcohol.
And that is the way you address those types
of mischief. The same with gaming and with anything else, because the truth of the matter is, Mr. Speaker ,
human nature is such that man can become addicted to anything—anything. You know people get addicted to working out, which is not necessarily that good for them if they do too much of it. Food . . . you know,
sugary drinks are more addictive —and this is a medical fact, Mr. Speaker —are more addictive. Sugar is
more addictive than cocaine. That is an established scientific fact, you know?
And when I raised it in this House, it was just
briefly, some time ago when I raised publicly about,
Well let’s start taxing on the sugary drinks and everything like that. Oh well, the Government was all hes itant on that one and we had to look at that and, you
know, the Health Minister was kind of like prevaricating on, Well, should we go that way . . . and that is how
we are.

So, I am a little tired. Thank
you.
But Mr. Speaker, coming back to it . . . there
are all of these mischiefs that we have to address
across the board. I mean, we have to start som ewhere; we have to start somewhere. That is the point. We have to start somewhere. And the history of law is that, you know, we recognise things as being either problematic or we recognise them as being something that we should address, and so we do that.
So we have got to start. And the fact of the
matter is that it just appears to be coming that we are getting cognisant of the fact —we have been saying it
for years —that the use of marijuana in Bermuda is
prolific. It is part, if you will, it really is . . . it is a cultural
thing, like drinking is. You know it is a cultural thing, and in the US and other places, but it really is here.
And people are just in complete and utter denial —
complete and utter denial if they really, really believe
that a very large segment of our population, across the board, do not indulge in some form of the use of marijuana or have not indulged at some stage.
You know, if we asked everybody to leave the
House that had ever at some stage used some form of marijuana, you know, if everybody had to leave that had done that, it would be an empty, tumbleweeds place, I am confident. Nobody has to comment, please, all right? That is all I am going to say on that.
They would be seeing a lot of empty chairs, an empty
Gallery, an empty parking lot. Let’s be real. Let’s be really real.

[Inaudible interjection and laughter ]

You know, my cousin’s car
would be there, okay, you know. He would be having
a debate by himself maybe up here . . . it would happen. What I am saying is it is significant —it is signif icant. Let us be honest.
So what . . . you know, the reason that I have
to lend my support to the Bill is that I believe we have to (to use the Premier’s favourite line and the Government’s mantra for its election campaign) move it
forward. Let us move it forward, not back. I will give
them this one, all right? That is their mantra. So I expect they will be all over endeavouring to get this right
and be supportive and be supportive of the amend-ments. Because really, it sounds to me in large part, we as a group up here are singing from the same pew in relation to this issue.
And we are going to have issues on, Well,
should we make it this amount or should we make it that amount? And I do not know. And I have asked the question, Why 7 [grams]? It is my lucky number, but
other than that I do not see any magic in that. Why 3 [grams]? I do not see any magic in that. In other
places it is 5 [grams], other places it is like a pound, in some places it is ounces, this is all over the world. So
I do not see magic in the amount. I do see things you
have to address with regard to the amount when it comes to intent to supply and handling, and we will get to those. But other that, I really do not see where we come down on it. I do not know if the Opposition exactly has a real determining fact as to why they are
calling for 7 [grams], or even the Government as to
why they are calling for 3 [grams].
So, it is difficult for me to say on that one. It is
too much; it is too little. You know that is the number and we have got to start somewhere. So if we are g oing to start at 7 [grams] we will start at 7 [grams], and I
think we have to at least move it forward to see how far down the road we have to get. And we cannot be
tied up with sitting here saying all the time, Oh, you
know, what is the Governor going to do or say or what are the Brits going to do or say in relation to it . You
know it is . . . at the end of the day we are a self -
governing colony. You know, we get it. Maybe they are not going to always agree; we have different views on things. They went to same- sex marriage a long
time before we did, you know?
We have to look at what we want to do and
what is right for us. And this, like so many other things, is really, Mr. Speaker . . . it is long overdue that
we start to address this issue. And this Bill when it is amended, or the Government’s Bill as it was, is not going to take us a long way down the road. It is just, in my view, potentially moving us in the same direction. I
will give you an example, because section 8 of the
Misuse of Drugs Act deals with the use of drugs and it is not being amended here today. So, these are the kind of things we have to look at almost sensibly.
I heard the Honourable Attorney General talking about in the Netherlands, in Amsterdam. We always think of Well, that’s the place to go and get high
. . . you kn ow they are liberal over there. You can go
there and you can smoke up and nobody says anything, it is legal . . . well, it is not. It is not legal. They
have carved it up in their system, Mr. Speaker, where
they do not prosecute you for it. Now, I will say this: We do not have the same system as the Dutch sy stem. So the analogy, with all respect, does not really work, because that would be a difficult formula to come up with in Bermuda to make that work. So we are coming up with something that helps, I think , to
move us in the right direction.
You know, I think we are probably still a long
way away from my assessment of doing personalised cultivation and licensing in that regard. But, you know, hopefully at some point I will have that opportunity to urge that along as we get further along with this . . . if
we do. Because there are going to be hurdles to jump over. There are going to be people that are just v ehemently opposed. I do not know if any of them are here, but they are going to say that there are health issues to be addressed, and I get that argument. You know, that it leads to higher drugs. I think that is fall aBermuda House of Assembly cy, you know, or more serious drugs . . . I think that is
a fallacy. I think alcohol does that before anything
else, but there are people that feel that way and I have got to respect your view on that, maybe that happened to them or somebody they know. Maybe they know somebody who started using marijuana and it went down that way. That happens.
I believe, Mr. Speaker, if we focus on educ ation of things that are harmful across the board, sugary drinks and everything else, if we focus on telling these people that overindulgence in this is going to be bad for you, is going to make you obese, is going to give you liver problems, is giving you heart trouble
and all the kinds of this . . . eating too many fatty
foods . . . those are education programmes . . . but we not banning fast foods. We are not banning sugary drinks. We are not banning alcohol— we are taxing it.
And we have to get real about what people are pr epared to do and not do.
I had an interesting conversation the other
day, Mr. Speaker, with an inmate at Westgate. He
informed me that they now had a ban on cigarettes in
prison. He told me, Mr. Pettingill, that is crazy b ecause now guys are trying to do other stuff with what-ever they can get their hands on. And the view of
many is that they are now having a potentially serious
problem with something else because of the fact that guys cannot smoke cigarettes up there anymore. So that is what c an tend to happen if you deny things to
people that they are going to do anyway —you drive it
underground and you create potentially other prob-lems.
So there is no panacea. There is no easy fix.
But an observation has to be you have to look at what has not been working, what has caused issues. You know the spirit of this particular Bill, let us be honest,
is how it has so impacted on young black males particularly with regard to criminalising them where they could not go away to school, they could not do an ything else. It hung over them because, like everybody else (in large part), many, many other people . . . like
many, many other people across the board they had indulged in some form of marijuana when they were younger. They got caught, got prosecuted, and ended
up in a situation where the punishment end of it was far, far more significant than what the crime was, and it just did not fit. And we have really left it alone for far
too long to address that very real issue . . . that very,
very real issue. We have left it alone too long.
And no man is an island, but we are an island.
And I said that to the former Attorney General of the
United States, like, you know, I see what their issues are. But they are a big place. They can do things differently. We have t o address our issues, our problems, our special position in the world (as the secondmost isolated piece of land in the world) and our popu-lation, our culture, and how these things impact on us. And we cannot just take it from anywhere else and make it fit into a particular mould. We cannot take a square peg and try and slam it through a round hole.
We have to address our issues. And it is good to see
that we are finally doing that.
It is 2017. It is 2017 and, again, on this issue
we are behind much of the rest of the world. You know, we are behind much of the rest of the world on this issue. It is like we watch what they are doing, we
go all conservative, we kick the can down the road . . .
it seems to be the concept we have of moving forward, and nothing really happens.
And everybody else moves ahead of us with
their modern ideas, with their ways to address pro blems, with their ways to address bigotry, with their
ways to address significant things. And we do not and
we have not. And this is why it is important to get younger people involved in Parliament. You know, you see that changing in the world. Look at Macron, the new French President, 39 years old. Trudeau in Can-ada is, I think, just 40. It is time for younger people to
get involved in politics and see what is going on in the
rest of the world. And this is such an issue. People are sitting there saying that we have to address this; this is what is going on, this is what we need to do.
So Mr. Speaker, at that point I will take my
seat. I anticipate I will speak further with regard to some concerns that I have —and there are concerns.
And I am glad that Members have been open to listen-ing to them. And I think that we will be able to address those issues in Committee and I think we may be able to carve something out that is a pretty sensible way
. . . it is not going to be ideal, but a pretty sensible way
to move forward. Thank you, Mr. Speaker .

I recognise that this is a challenge, and I am all for anything that is going to create
a level playing field for our young black men becaus e
it is unfortunate that they have been deprived of op-portunities because of things that they may have done
1736 19 May 2017 Official Hansard Report

Bermuda House of Assembly in their youth related to marijuana, whether it is smo king it or being caught with it.
However, my challenge is as the mother of a
drug addict who went on to harder drugs because of
marijuana. I think we need to be careful with how we approach it. I like the collaborative approach that we have had to take with this and that we have had to
work with the Opposition and now the Independents in
crafting a piece of legislation that is going to facilitate
what we want to accomplish.
But we also have to be sure that what we are
doing is not going to cause unintended consequenc-es. I heard the Attorney General relate to certain treaties, and we do not want to jeopardise our business
environment while trying to create a level playing field. And I do not want to be insensitive to the needs of our young black men who are being subjected to penalties that are far out -weighing the crimes that they commit.
I do not t hink that we should be doing an ything for political expediency. I think that we should be doing something that is going to create a piece of leg-islation that is going to satisfy everyone, that is going to remove the unintended consequences for our young bl ack men, it is going to allow us to continue to
be an international jurisdiction that people want to come to, and it is going to allow us to do something that the people are also going to be happy with.
I know that there are a lot of people who do
not want to legalise marijuana. I am kind of the view
that if you do legalise something it kind of takes away
its attractiveness and its charm. I do not know if you have ever heard the saying stolen grapes are sweeter, but when something is more available to you t hen
it is no longer as attractive. And maybe legalising it or
legalising a certain portion of it will detract from the attractiveness of it and maybe reduce the number of
people who smoke it.
On the whole I think that if this is something
that is going to, again, facilitate and support our young
black men then I agree with it, and I hope that we can
come to a point where necessary amendments are
made, that we craft a piece of legislation that is going
to do well for Bermuda.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker .

The Spe aker: All right. Thank you, Honourable Member.
The Chair will now recognise the Learned
Member from constituency 34, MP Kim Wilson. You
have the floor.

Mr. Speaker, gosh, I think, probably one of my first cases as a new member of the
Bar involved a case in Magistrate’s Court in which a young man who I believe at the time was 18 . . . 17,
18. And he and two of his mates had just graduated from colle ge and they were . . . it might have been
high school, but in any event they were at Horseshoe Beach and they had both been . . . it was a Saturday
afternoon and they were swimming and having, I guess, a good time. But needless to say they were
arrested for simple marijuana possession.
And I remember being in court and doing a
mitigation on his behalf and realising that, with the Royal Gazette sitting right there, that the likelihood is
that it would have been reported and that in the ci rcumstance of the matter being reported in the press, then the inevitable event would be that he would be
placed on the stop list.
And I remember I got into so much trouble on
that occasion, actually, because I went to the reporter . . . I did not think I was aggressive or harsh to him,
and I just kindly asked him if he would not report on
those findings because I knew what the ramifications
would be for this young man who was scheduled to depart in a few weeks to the United States for school. Needless to say he was placed on the stop list.
I do not know where he is now. I am hoping
that his life has not been completely altered, but no doubt it was because he was unable to travel to the United States to pursue his educational degree.
Fast forward, Mr. Speaker, I do not know , 25,
30 years later where I, too, had the opportunity of si tting as the Attorney General of Bermuda and at the
time we established cautioning guidelines under the
Police and Criminal Evidence Act to allow for the p olice, in certain circumstances, to issue cautions based
on guidelines that were set by the Director of Public Prosecutions. And at the time, I do not remember the quantity involved, but at the time there was a partic ular quantity which if a person was found in possession of this particular quantity then the police have the power to issue a caution to that individual so that, again, that person would not find themselves in front of the criminal justice system.
Well, unfortunately, we all recognise that
those cautioning guidelines . . . regrettably there is a
disparity in their application, in that we see that there are a disproportionate number of arrests and subs equent court appearances for persons of African de-scent for possession of cannabis. But we also know
that the statistics in Bermuda do not reveal that there
is a disparity in the use of marijuana—smoking or ut ilising —marijuana. So, unfortunately, the caution
guidelines, to a certain extent, had not proven the success that one would have hoped.
So here we are today with the Opposition t abling a Bill that will, hopefully, address the issues concerning the disparity with respect to the arrests and subsequent court appearances of persons with simple possession and also address the issue that I spoke about when I began my remarks concerning the
young man who was placed on the stop list. So we


Bermuda House of Assembly have before us a Bill that has the potential of addres sing both of those very, very serious situations that
have had far -reaching implications on many persons
in our society.
However, Mr. Speaker , I had some concerns
about this piece of legislation. And as the mover of this Bill, the honourable and learned colleague from
constituency 36, the Honourable Shadow Attorney
General, indicated that there was a particular prov ision that I felt very passionate about and wished to be
included in the Act, and that speaks specifically to clause 4 with respect to the regulations that will r equire mandatory substance abuse education or treatment for any minor that is found in possession. Why
do I say that? Why did I insist on that?
Well, Mr. Speaker, the evidence is quite clear
and, if you would permit me, I would just like to read
real quickly an excerpt from the National Drug Council Master Plan and Action Plan of 2013/14.

As well as I have a statement
from the Analyst of Cannabis Reform in Bermuda, which was the document that we debated here in
2014. And effectively the statistics are clear, and the NDC has confirmed that, that there are some harro wing facts that must be taken into consideration when
we are dealing with adolescent marijuana consum ption.
Well, let me back up for a moment because
my honourable friend who took his seat previously, the Member who sits in constituency 26, spoke about
the importance of education. And the mandate of the NDC is “To educate the public about risks and met hods for preventing engagement in inappropriate use of
. . . drugs” as well as “To educate the public on the
health risks associated with substance use and
abuse.” And that is where I want to spend a few m oments, Mr. Speaker, speaking about it this afternoon,
and that is with respect to the importance of both education as well as to provide an overview as to why this
particular clause has been included in this Opposition Bill so as to best protect those minors that may be affected by drug use.
Mr. Speaker, there is no secret that the mar ijuana strains that we are now seeing in Bermuda and
worldwide do not mirror those that were used 20 and
30 years ago. In fact, the National Institute on Drug Abuse in the United States, Mr. Speaker, reports that
“today, the average marijuana contains almost 10 percent of THC as opposed to several decades ago.” So, therefore, the strain of marijuana that is being grown and distributed nowadays is far more s evere, which means it is far more severe on the active mind of an adolescent.
Mr. Speaker, the statistics are proven and the
evidence shows that early use and prolonged use of marijuana with respect to an adolescent’s brain leads to significant problems, problems that affect memory,
attention, ability to think clearly, affect movement, balance, and are associated with a moderate decrease in IQ. Now we are talking about adolescents here, Mr. Speaker , whose brains are developing and do not
reach full development until their early 20s.
In addition to that, Mr. Speaker , we have seen
evidence and statistics that confirm that marijuana use with adolescents, with respect to school, they have generally poor school performance, there is a higher risk of the m dropping out and not completing their education, there is a higher risk of more problematic be-haviour in school, there is a higher risk of immature
sexual activity with adolescents who consume and
abuse marijuana, and there is a higher level of crim inal behaviour. And there are probably two, three of
us, four of us that sit in this House, but also sit in a nother place with respect to the courts, that can attest to the instances of criminality with respect to adolescents. And when you ask them what were the circu mstances surrounding the commission of the offence,
they say that they were under the influence of drugs
or alcohol.
Mr. Speaker, in addition, socially we have
seen that the adolescents that consume marijuana have more social problems, more difficulty interacting with their family and their friends, higher instances of irritability, and of deep concern to me is that adoles-cents —again, this is all based on scientific fact —that
consume or have prolonged use or early use of mar ijuana have a higher risk of mental illness, mental
health issues, psychosis, depression, anxiety, schiz ophrenia, and suicide.
So I am saying all that to say, Mr. Speaker ,
that against that backdrop the Opposition PLP thought it important enough to safeguard our individual, our
youth, weighing on the other hand the fact that the
decriminalisation aspect was necessary so that we
can also ensure that persons were not being dispr oportionately arrested and brought before the courts and put on stop lists. So we have two compelling i nterests and two compelling matters that need to be
addressed.
And I think with respect, Mr. Speaker , that this
Bill addresses both of those issues. We are addres sing the issue with respect to the decriminalisation and the disproportionate amount of black persons, in particular, males that are brought before the courts on
arrests for possession . . . simple possession. Yet, on
the other hand with [clause] 4, the inclusion of [clause] 4, we are addressing the issue as it relates to minors and that if minors are caught in possession of marij uana in accordance with this legislation, they will be
required, Mr. Speaker , to undergo substance abuse
education.
And with respect to the Honourable and
Learned Attorney General and the comments that he
made concerning, perhaps, unconstitutionality, I am not quite sure that I agree with that submission. We
1738 19 May 2017 Official Hansard Report

Bermuda House of Assembly have got agencies like BARC [Bermuda Assessment
and Referral Centre] and other agencies here in Bermuda that have the power to provide counselling and treatment for our individuals, for persons in Bermuda, particularly for substance abuse issues.
So, I am not sure I agree with that asses sment, but in any event, the point that I am trying to
make, Mr. Speaker, by adding . . . by the addition of
clause 4 we, as an Opposition, are taking extra steps
under this legislation to make sure that we get the message out to adolescents that no, we are not co ndoning your behaviour with respect to marijuana use. And in fact what we are saying is that we are going to
ensure that you receive treatment and substance
abuse [counselling] in the circumstances where you are found with marijuana so as to ensure that if there are any circumstances surrounding the reason for you having that marijuana then the treatment and the counselling that goes with it will help to address that,
to minimise any potential long- term impacts.
Mr. Speaker, in closing, and I know the Bill will
be going into Committee so there are a couple of ot her comments that I will make at that time. But in closing, Mr. Speaker , I su bmit that this particular piece of
legislation in front of us, notwithstanding some amendments that will come, serves two purposes: It addresses the long- standing issue of the disproportionate amount of black males that are brought before the criminal just ice system for small amounts of mar ijuana possession, and then the consequential knock -
on effect of the stop list entry that, obviously, restricts their travel and their educational or employment op-portunities. Yet, on the other hand, we are recognising that, unfortunately, according to the NDC and the st atistics, there has been an increase in the use of mar ijuana amongst adolescents. However, we are saying
we are not condoning that and if in circumstances an
adolescent is found in possession of marijuana, in
addition to the police confiscating that, they will also be required to receive some type of drug education and treatment so that any underlying issues that may
have precipitated the cause of them using the marij uana can be addressed early. Thank you, Mr. Speaker .

Thank you, Mr. Speaker .
Mr. Speaker, over the last . . . over the last
seven, eight years if I have not processed at least b etween 175 to 200 waivers on behalf of persons who
required waivers to go to the US, in particular, then I have not processed any.
Two things come to mind when I think of this,

First, probably at least close to half of those persons were only deemed to be ineligible to travel to the US because of committing an offence
connected with the possession, distribution of cann abis, or marijuana. Secondly, throughout t hat period,
starting when I was a consultant at the Cabinet Office
(where we started the programme at that time), I con-tinued to do it in my private capacity after leaving the Cabinet Office, but secondly, I do not believe I had
one white client . . . not one.
Now, that does not mean that there are not
white Bermudians who have not ran afoul of the drug
laws with respect to cannabis over the last 15, 20 years and who have not found themselves on the US so-called stop list (they vehemently push back against
you using that term). But I never came across any white Bermudian who I would deem to be a client that I assisted. And that just goes to show the disparate impact that laws such as these have had on our community more broadly, [and] in our black communi-ty more specifically.
It is time for us to address this issue and to
put forth remedies in order to mitigate social harm, the social harm that has been caused on a multi -
generational basis, as the Learned Member alluded to, this war on drugs in Bermuda. I share my colleague and Learned Member’s caveats about the i mpact of cannabis use or marijuana use on our young
people. And when I say young I am talking about our adolescents in particular. I think usage usually starts (as it did for my generation) at about 13, 12, 14 years of age. I have seen some of the data that she referenced with respect to the impact on the developing
brain by those young persons who consume cannabis or marijuana.
During our last go- round a couple of years
[ago] on this issue I did speak to that. And I am glad that she has put up her voice and raised her voice,
rather, to warn us about this great danger to our
young people. Now that danger is still going to be there, notwithstanding whether we pass this or not, but she makes reference to clause 6 is it? No, clause 4 . . . she makes reference to clause 4.

[Inaudible interjection]

Thirty -four, yes.
The Honourable Member made reference to
clause 4. I think in previous debate . . . without reflec ting too much, I would also remind the House that we
also will need to ensure, particularly on the Gover nment side, with the successful passage of this (and that will be determined not too long from now) that we must probably redouble our efforts with respect to the National Drug Administration Agency to put in place


Bermuda House of Assembly enough resources —human and other forms of r esources —and investment to ensure that they are able
to tackle this issue, to ensure that they are able to put
the necessary resources to mitigate the harm which the growing body of evidence does indicate can be had by those young persons under the age of 18 or 19 or 20 from the consumption of marijuana. And so we
need to be responsible for that. We need to treat it as
a public health issue and be vigorous in dealing with it. And again, I am glad that the Honourable Member
from [constituency] 34 reminded us of that.
Mr. Sp eaker , this is an issue whose time has
come. We know that the disproportionate impact, as I
said, is profound. I would hope that both sides of the
House can stop the game- playing here on this issue.
Even the presence out of the ether of a rival Bill from the Government showed me that they were probably
more intent on playing politics with this issue than dealing with it in a very forthright fashion.
We have been down this road before with r espect to previous discussions on decriminalisation and we have always had the goalpost moved, for example. Even with respect to things like medical marijuana, hopes were raised a couple of years ago only for the
Government to come with some amendment that
made provisions for things like Sativex, which are sy nthetic compounds that use cannabinoid derivatives, I believe, to produce medicine, rather than being really progressive and placing Bermuda in a position where we are not going to be the odd man out on that front.
But that is a related issue.
In closing, Mr. Speaker , I just want to say I
hope that we can now end the game playing and this
Bill can get bipartisan support, it can get cooperation, and so at least on this issue we can all —all elected
Members —show that we are on the same page when
it comes to the interests of Bermudians. Thank you.

Yes, thank you, Mr.
Speaker .
Mr. Speaker , I do not think it is a coincidence
that there are two Bills on the Order Paper in 2017
addressing this issue with an election looming, par-ticularly when we have been in this House for the last
five years and the issue that is being addressed today in this Bill has been around for some time.

This has been an issue
and it has been a problem in our community for a very long time. And I said last week, I believe on motion to
adjourn, that I would like for this House to do som ething that is going to have a direct positive impact on
the average Bermudian out there. And this is som ething that will do that.
And I can say that my honourable and learned
colleague, Mr. Pettingill, has been working on this i ssue trying to figure out how to address it in the most comprehensive and most palatable way for Bermuda. He has been working on looking at this particular amendment as well as the Government amendment when it was tabled last week, to try and analyse the
legal deficiencies so we can just figure out the best
way going forward.
I am ve ry pleased by the spirit of this partic ular amendment, which is geared towards ensuring that our young men in this country who may be caught
with small amounts of marijuana do not end up ser ving a life sentence by being on the stop list. And I can
tell you the amount of individuals that come to me because they want to take their family —good family men
now, who had made a mistake 20 years ago— who
want to take their family to Disney World, want to do
positive and healthy things with their family, with their
children, and they cannot go to the US because of
something that they did 20 years ago. It sounds ridic ulous to me and it is very pervasive. So I am glad that we are going to address this.
I would have preferred . . . and I agreed with
the Honourable and Learned Member Pettingill when he said that in his view the most productive approach is to address legalising personal cultivation. To me that makes sense because then you would be able to control what was going to be consumed, you could
regulate it, you could monitor it, and you know, I think
that is a more holistic way of addressing it.
This way, what we are saying is that if you
have 7 grams . . . and I support it. And I will be sup-porting the amended legislation as we go forward (I have seen the amendments that the Honourable and
Learned Member will be bringing in Committee and I
support them). But there is still an issue in relation to where this stuff is coming from. There is still an issue of the quality of it.
You know, Mr. Speaker, I am aware that t here
are individuals who have ended up in MAWI [MidAtlantic Wellness Institute] because of stuff that was in
what they were smoking. Not because of the marijua-na. Not because of the marijuana, but because of the
poor quality, the poor production, whatever the case
may be. So in my view, if you can tell somebody they
can grow it in a small area on their own property and
1740 19 May 2017 Official Hansard Report

Bermuda House of Assembly they are growing this plant . . . that is what it is. It is a
plant. And allow them . . . sorry, I have learned that
you can actually get specific seeds and you can grow
certainly grains, a grain that is good for . . . to help you
sleep. You know, there is a grain that will help your appetite. I mean, it is a very sophisticated plant and sophisticated area. But in my view, that is the more
progressive way to go.
But, clearly, we are far away from that. And I
have to say, I want to congratulate the Opposition b ecause I am surprised that they are bringing forward
this particular amendment. I would have loved to have been in that caucus discussion because I have been
in this House long enough to know certain Members —

[Inaudible interjection and laughter ]

—certain Members —I a ppreciate the invitation from the Honourable Member .
But, Mr. Speaker , I have been around long
enough to know that there are certain individuals on
this side of the House because of their religious con-victions who have been completely against these types of advances. But I am glad to see that we can
separate sometimes the need of the entire country
when it comes to addressing important legislation.
But it does concern me, you know. We wonder sometimes why our young men, our young peo-ple, seem to have the attitude that they have. Well, when we live in a hypocritical society where we know
the overconsumption of alcohol can be bad, when we
know that alcohol as a substance is more harmful than marijuana, but yet alcohol —despite the fact that
we have talked about these issues, despite the fact that we know that the majority of fatalities on our roads are associated with drinking and driving —
remains and continues to be legal, and we have had this debate for decades on marijuana. And you go and talk to the average young black male about it and they
will look at you and say, You know, you guys are a
bunch of hypocrites. You want to criminalise me and you want to make my life difficult because I happen to
like marijuana, but it is okay to drink alcohol and we all know the difficulties that alcohol can bring. And so, the
system is inherently hypocritical, and then we wonder
why they have the attitude that they have.
I happened to recently need to change my
battery, and I ended up going to the Warwick gas st ation. And for various reasons I was there for a long time trying to get this battery changed. I ended up having a very long and productive conversation hearing the views of these young men. And so I think that we need to be real about this conversation. We cannot come here time and time again and acknowledge
the pitfalls in relation to alcohol, but walk away and
say but, you know, we’re okay with it being legal and
consistently talk about how we have all of these concerns about legalising marijuana. And if you do a study, Mr. Speaker , and look
at the places that have legalised marijuana and then
ask the question, Have you had these problems? B ecause we heard the Attorney General raise concerns
about problems that may arise. You will be surprised to find out that it has not. In fact, in some jurisdictions, like Colorado, Mr. Speaker, crime has gone down. It
has gone down. And the use by minors has gone
down. And that was one of the biggest concerns. The biggest concern was, Well, if we legalise it, more
young people are going to use it. But no, when you
legalise it, you are able to have better and more fort hright conversations about it. The education around it increased, the regulation around it increased, the control around it increased, and so the use of it by minors decreased.
So, just have a look. Do not just get up and
state things that naturally come to us because we are naturally fearful of traversing into the unknown, so we
always say, Well, this may happen and that may ha ppen. Well, let us do some research in areas where
they have done it and ask, Did these things materialise? And the answer is that they did not and they have not.
And if the Finance Minister is looking for a
way to raise revenue, well, here you go. If you are talking about legalising it, you look at these jurisdi ctions [and] they are raising millions, in some places billions of dollars in revenue in this field, and job crea-tion in this field. In Colorado they increased jobs by
10,000, Mr. Speaker . He would not have to worry
about his 2,000 job promise, I can tell you that, because there are so many different ways that you can be able to do it. Y ou see the dispensaries that open
up in these states that sell it. It is controlled. People go there, they get what they want and they are getting
a quality product and they are getting the results that
they want from it.
I just want to know from this Parliament, when
are we going to lead on some of these issues? We are always, you know, coming behind, kicking and
screaming on these issues.
You know, Mr. Speaker, if this Parliament
would have legalised same- sex marriage years ago,
we would have been a leading jurisdiction in tourism
on that component alone. Go look at what happened to Hawaii when they legalised it. Their tourism went
through the roof because people were going there to
get married because it was not available in many ot her places. But we do not want to lead. We want to come to the party always last when all the food is gone . . . all the food and all the booze is gone and we
are showing up at the party expecting to get som ething out of it.
But if we can lead, Mr. Speaker , we may a ctually gain a benefit. So here again, now we have got, I think, we have got eight states and Washington DC that have now legalised marijuana, okay? But imagine


Bermuda House of Assembly if we had done that years ago and people knew, You
know what? Just a two- hour flight away.
And you know, Mr . Speaker, how long ago
was the judgment on same- sex marriage? A couple
weeks ago, right? I have not noticed any difference in
my day. I wake up in the morning the same way I used to wake up. I go to the same breakfast spot and
the same people are there serving me. You know, the
sun feels the same . . . no different. But yet there was
all that concern about what was going to happen if this happens. Nothing, Mr. Speaker! Nothing is going to happen.
The same thing with marijuana; if you legalise
it you are not going to have people sitting down all over Front Street. You know it is funny, and my very good friend, my very good and learned friend that sits in front of me, I remember when he was debating al-lowing the sale of alcohol on a Sunday. And people were getting up and saying there were going to be
drunken people at the steps of the churches. Come
on! You know, have we seen drunken people at the steps of your church since? No.
No. Maybe those going to church, —

[Laughter]

Mr. Speaker , there has
been nobody at the steps of the church. You know, so
we always have these fears, but yet we go ahead and we catch up with the rest of the world and life just
keeps ticking along . . . keeps ticking along.
So, I support this. I am not too conc erned
about the 7 grams, Mr. Speaker . In California it is
1 ounce, in Oregon it is 1 ounce, in Washington DC . .
. you know Washington DC, like the most powerful
political, powerful place in the world, it is 2 ounces.
You know, it is funny, in Maine it is 2.5 ounces . . . No,
I’m sorry . . . Well, in Maine it is 2.5. In Massachusetts
right, they allow you to also grow 12 plants at your home and I believe . . . I do not know if it is Maine or Massachusetts (I made a note), but in one of those
states the dispensary sells more marijuana, they
make more sales than Starbucks and McDonalds combined in that state, right?
And so, you know, I think we have to have an
honest conversation about this. I really do. We know that there are medicinal benefits to it. There is no
question that it helps to reduce cancer in the brain.
There is no question that it is very beneficial for those who suffer with epilepsy, those who suffer with seizure disorders, Mr. Speaker. Depression, multiple scler osis—it is very, very beneficial for that. So we know
that there are other studies going on right now as to
whether or not it is beneficial for some other diseases,
so, you know, it has its benefits. But if we think that either passing this or not passing it is going to affect people’s use then we really have missed the argu-ment. What we are saying today . . . and you know,
even in my research, Mr. Speaker , there was a state
where they determined that the use of marijuana amongst blacks and whites was almost equal. But the arrest and the detention and criminalisation was like
95 per cent black . . . 95 per cent black. And so I do
not know why . . . it is bizarre how the white boys get
away with it all around the world, Mr. Speaker . Or is it
just because most police departments and forces
seem to focus on a certain community?
But the fact of the matter is it is a statistical
fact that blacks seem to be arrested for this and the impact on their lives is certainly long. And I do not like
when I hear people saying if you get put on a stop lis t
you can never get an education. America is not the
world, Mr. Speaker. You can get on a plane and go to
other countries, like the UK, that has good schools, and Canada has good schools, Mr. Speaker . But it is
a tremendous inconvenience, and it should not be an
inconvenience. I mean, literally, if you look at the pol icies of the work permit policy, it is for life. There is no way . . . there is no way you can come off the stop list
. . . no way. You can get waivers, Mr. Speaker , and
you can get waivers for multiple years. But you can
never be taken off . . . never taken off.
So I think that this is a good thing that we are
going to address this. I did speak with someone in the Government who stated that it was their intention that their Bill may have some form of retroactive impact. I do not know if that is possible. That means that those
who are on the stop list now because of simple possession of marijuana may be able to be taken off. That could be a . . . that must be a conversation gover nment to government to see whether or not the US Immigration is prepared to do that.
But I would like to have more information from
the Government in relation to the treaties that the A ttorney General discussed. He discussed treaties from 1961, 1971, and 1988. And the one in 1988 is 29 years ago. The one in 1961 is 56 years ago. My ques-tion is, I want to know more detail about these treaties. You know, tell me what the consequence could
be if there is a breach of the treaty. Or sometimes these treaties are understandings between nations. I cannot imagine that if we take a more progressive move in this area that all of sudden that we are going to . . . as someone said, that this may create some
problems within our international business arena. I cannot imagine that. So if that is the case then I would like to hear more about the specifics of these treaties that will have a deleterious impact on us as a jurisdic-tion if we go down this road.
So, Mr. Speaker, I support it. I think that we
have had multiple debates in relation to this issue since I have been in this House. I am glad we are f inally having a debate that may result in some form of change. I do believe, and that is why I support the amendments by the Honourable and Learned Member from [constituency] 25, that we cannot pass legislation
1742 19 May 2017 Official Hansard Report

Bermuda House of Assembly that is going to make it difficult for the agencies that
have to implement it. We have to make sure that
those agencies, whether it be the Director of Public Prosecutions Office or whether it be the police, fully understand what it is that we are passing. They are sort of on board to a certain degree— everybody cannot be happy —but they are on board. And this is not
going to be difficult or onerous for them to actually implement. So I am hoping . . . I know that the Ho nourable Member has had conversations with individuals in those areas, but I do think that we have to ad-dress it. I think it is long overdue. I think the people of this country are going to embrace this.
And then we need to, not just do this today,
Mr. Speaker, but let us make sure as we go forward
we continue with the education—those things that the Honourable and Learned Member , Ms. Wilson, hig hlighted in terms of the risks of young people using it and their adolescent development. Let us continue to
get that out there. If there are some other issues that
need to be highlighted and addressed, let us address them as well. But we cannot remain stuck in doing nothing. And that is what concerns me in this Parli ament because we are paralyzed with fear and we end
up doing nothing. And so, to me, that is worse . . . that
is worse than trying to find a solution and improve the
circumstances.
So I support it, Mr. Speaker, and I look forward to Committee when I understand that the Oppo-sition will embrace the amendments so that we can
make this as workable as possible. Thank you.

All right. Thank you very much, Ho nourable Member .
The Chair will recognise the Minister for
Health, Minister Jeanne Atherden.
Hon. Jeanne J. Atherden: Mr. Speaker , I think as we
have had the conversation, to my mind there are two
aspects of the discussion, and two aspects of what I call the intent.
I believe that none of us want to see a conti nuation of young people not being able to travel abroad because of something that they have done foolishly or
not understanding the consequences, causes them to actually have their lives ruined.
But I think, Mr. Speaker, we sometimes forget
that actually being stopped by the police is not the only part of ruining their lives because, as the Shadow Health Mini ster indicated, smoking marijuana actually
has a significant impact on young people. And, ther efore, as we go forward, I believe that we want to try and do something such that they have the opportunity
to, if you will, rethink and understand the cons equenc es of their actions. Which is why I was quite . . .
I was . . . sorry, Mr. Speaker . . . I was quite pleased to
see the suggestion in there about education for m inors. But I also think that . . . and I just wanted to
make sure that I can try and have . . . walk us through
what we have to think about in terms of the separ ation, okay? There is one thing which is talking about
smoking . . . there is one thing to talk about utilising
cannabis for medical uses, okay? That is one thing. There is another thing which is talking about just
smoking it. And so most of the people that you talk
about, the people that cannot go to Disney World, et cetera, et cetera, they were not people who were us-ing it for medical use. They were people that got i ntrigued with the fact that this was something [good] and they used it and they got caught and it was rather
unfortunate.
So I just do not want us to confuse these two
issues because I want to say to you (I am putting my
Minister of Health hat on) we continue to look at medi-cal ma rijuana and we continue to look at how it has
being utilised. And in some cases the conversations
here were slipping in and out in terms of medical mar ijuana use and cannabis and sort of confusing different
things. And I just want to say to you that many t imes
when you talked about what has happened in other countries, a lot of the countries have legalised marij uana for medical use. A lot of the states in the US have legalised marijuana for medical use. So that is one thing which we looked at. Now, at the time I brought in the two marijuana products that we legalised I had indicated to you that I would continue to look at other products out there and continue to look at how marij uana is being produced.
Now I obviously have had the opportunity to
continue to look at what is happening abroad and how
it is being produced, how it is being grown, how peo-ple are actually turning around and producing, as some of you have indicated, certain types of marijuana. You can actually specialise. So you can have certain types that are good for different ailments, et cetera, because lots of research is being done on m arijuana and on TCB and on understanding the produc-tion and the utilisation.
So what I am saying here, let us not get
caught up in terms of medical marijuana. Let us talk about the other side because this decriminalisation or depenalisation is really talking about people out there going out and having purchased marijuana, and by and large . . . and I am not saying that you do not
have some people. But the people t hat we have a lways talked about, the young black men out there, are
not out there for medical marijuana use. They are out there because they are caught up in the thing that this is something interesting to them, this is something that is attractive, and so let us just deal with that for a m oment.
So from my perspective, when I look at this
and when I look at what we are trying to do, I have a worry because, as the Shadow Minister of Health said, I have a worry because when you stop and think about the effect on the brain and when you think


Bermuda House of Assembly about the effect on their young lives, you heard the
Attorney General talk about when we are out . . . the
people who have the other side of it are the young
black women because they are the ones who are out there wanting to marry and mate with these young
black men. And therefore, it is very important to un-derstand the impact.
But also when you turn around . . . and there
was something that I was struck by. When we turn around and talk about . . . we turn around and say t hat
the use between young men—black or white —is a lmost about the same, but only the black men get caught. Well, we have to turn around and look at the
impact on the people, our young black men, who are
now not able to maximise their potential. And I say this because I am talking about maximising their potential because of the use of marijuana and because of some of the impacts that it is having on them.
So I am saying let us make sure that we do
the right thing from the point of view of depenali sation,
so they do not get [put] on the stop list, but let us f ocus on the fact that we have to start educating them on the fact that they should not want to have to use marijuana because they have to understand the impact. And I am actually believing that we should g o
even further than what the Shadow Minister was tal king about with respect to saying that if you are a minor
caught with cannabis that you should have some sort of . . . you should have some sort of . . . what is the
word that we say here? That there is supposed to be
some . . . that the Minister . . . I think it says that the
Minister is supposed to make sure that something is
put in the Act to make sure that they have mandatory substance abuse education or treatment, counselling.
I believe that if we tru ly believe and we want
to do something for our citizens and our people in
Bermuda, I think that we should amend it even further
and say that if you are caught a second time with this small amount, you need to have treatment as well, because, obviously, you have a substance abuse
[problem]. And we need to turn around and focus on,
not just young people, but if you are caught again —
and that means that you have turned around and established that you have a problem —that we should
just turn around and say, add something to the effect that the second time around you will also be subject to this mandatory treatment that you would have for
young people.
I also believe that as we go forward if we are
going to turn around and we are going to say that we
should do this . . . and I take the point that you do not
want to keep going on in terms of what I call analy sing, analysing forever, because I know sometimes you
say analysis creates paralysis . So I do not want that to
happen to us. But I do understand that we have to talk
about and see what has happened in other communities. Bermuda is a small community and you cannot
think that you can turn around and talk about growing marijuana as it is happening in other places , and r e-search, et cetera. You have to sort of see how something like that could work in a community of our size and separate medical marijuana , and let us just focus
right now on the use of marijuana by young persons.
And I believe as we go forward that we have
to recognise that it has an impact on their develo pment. And the other side of it is because when we
started to have the conversations with businesses and
some of those industries out there, they made it abs olutely clear to me that if someone has a substance abuse problem or someone has . . . when they do
their testing and [they fail], they are out, as it relates to some of the construction, hospital. . . some of these
industries where we would want our young men to be engaged in. So we have to turn around, we have to try and deal with why people decide that they need to use
marijuana. In the same way that we talk about . . . I
know you want to talk about alcohol and marijuana in the same breath. The difficulty is the fact that alcohol
can go through your system and if you do not actually get to the stage where you actually have a dependency, then in a lot of cases you are able to function.
Now, I am not going to get into who you test
and how you test , because that is something that is
done by individual businesses. But we have to reco gnise . . . and I would worry because of the effect on
their brains . And as the Shadow Minister was talking
about criminality and social problems, et cetera, Ber-muda has these issues. We have to deal with them .
I know someone got up and talked about, you
know , we talk about accidents and we do not talk
about the fact that if people are under the influence what is the cost, et cetera. Well, the under the infl uence that they are talking about is both types of influ-ence—alcohol as well as drugs. And so the cost is there. And as I said two weeks ago, it is not just about
killing themselves . It is whether after that they live
[from then on] with either all of the disabilities and all
of the things . . . and to me it is not only the people
that have the accident, it is the people who are wal king around here that already mentally have mental
challenges.
That is why we have a Drug Court. We have a
Drug Court because we understood that these challenges are out there. And you know what? The mere fact that we have to turn around and create a separate
court to deal with these issues tells us we have a
problem. It tells us that we are turning around and tr ying to address the fact that you want to give them . . .
you want to give some recognition that there might
have been something that caused them . . . and you
want them to have the opportunity to correct their lives and get on with it.
But from an education perspective, you cannot turn around and . . . and I know we talked about it .
You cannot create the suggestion of saying to people inadvertently that it is okay to do this because later on we know that there are some knock -on [effects]. And I
will tell you truthfully, when we had the conversation
1744 19 May 2017 Official Hansard Report

Bermuda House of Assembly this question of whether you had 7 grams or 5 grams
or 3 grams was really a real issue because the bottom
line is you actually want to try and have people have no [grams]. But the feeling was that 7 [grams] was too close to what people were selling. And you did not want to have people out there selling it and then inad-vertently getting away with . . . getting away.
So I have understood that we have been talking about how we can come up with a number and my concern is, in the end, whatever number you come up with . . . if we come up with a number and say that
that is a way to depenalise it, we have to understand
that the intent is to turn around and not have people
having blights on their lives because of something
they have done when they were young or when they were not thinking about the consequences. But as I said you have to understand that you cannot . . . we
cannot keep sending mixed messages.
Education is going to be very important. It is
going to be very important after this to turn around and understand if we implement it, anything else that we need to do . . . so I do not want to think that w hen
we just pass . . . if this goes through, that we do not
understand some of the other things that we have to
do going forward. Because the most important thing
for me is to say that while I do not want to do anything that will impact on young people and , as I say, I am
not differentiating between young black or young white [men] because any of our young people who are
not out there able to focus and be a resource—black
or white —means that we have done something which
is to harm society.
We need all our resources. And I do not di fferentiate between who they are. And I believe going
forward, as I say, whether they are not going off to
Disney World . . . I am more worried about what is
happening while they are sitting at home and becoming individuals who later on will do some things where their use of cannabis has created some problems, which means that they are not able to contribute as much . . . as best as they could to society.
So with that I just want to say to you that I do
not want to turn around and have us make this an i ssue of trying to do something other than make it such that, if they are going to make a mistake, that we would like to make sure that it is not a mistake for life. So I would like to think that when we go forward we
will put a real emphasis on education, we will look at
what is happening in other places and separate what I call using it for personal use as opposed to turning around and using medical marijuana.
I will continue to look at medical marijuana
and I will continue to look at bringing forward things
that have been done in other jurisdictions, other pro ducts that have been added. Because I understand, as
you all have said, that there are lots of people out there that have diseases, that have illnesses, but on top of that, as we all know, you see different things that have happened where . . . you know, if people are having to use it for medical [purposes] I would like to
think that it is done in a way that it is properly dealt
with. I do not want people cutting drugs with other
drugs and creating a whole new problem later on.
So let us have a discussion on this and it is
one of those things with respect to . . . I think we have
an intent, but we do not want to send a mixed message. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker .
[Mrs. Suzann Roberts -Holshouser, Deputy Speaker,
in the Chair]

Thank you, Madam Deputy
Speaker .
Madam Deputy Speaker, let me commence
my remarks by firstly saying that I do not condone the
use of marijuana for social use. I am saying that sp ecifically because I think my grandchildren are listen ing
to me tonight and I want them to get that message specifically, okay?
Let me say that I want to thank the Honourable Members on my side for bringing this Bill. And I certainly offered my support. The Learned Member at the end, I think it is [constituency] 31, had said that we
had taken a long time to even discuss this matter . And
he is right. This is something that we did shy away from. We shied away from it for a very, very long time, but it obviously shows the enlightened thinking that we
have, certainly in this party . And I hope it is something
that certainly continues.
Let me say that cannabis is the drug of choice
for our youth. But at the same time I understand, as
the Honourable Health Minister says, that there is some damage to young minds. And I think that is
something that we certainly should be considerate
about as well. So, I am certainly glad that we have put
in our Bill the opportunity to get treatment and educ ation for persons getting caught with this amount up to
7 [grams]. And I certainly support the 7 grams amount
because, you know, it is . . . I support it anyway.
But let me say that the Attorney General sort
of said that . . . he used the term that we had an acc usatory tone of rushing this. Well, let me say that this is something that we think is good in terms of stopping
persons who have been caught and charged and not able . . . I am going to use the term being put on the
“stop list,” because that is exactly what it was. They
put them on a s top list and they were not able to go to
their choice of school in the US. Yes, I do understand
that they can travel around to other schools which are probably just as good, but at the same time if they had their heart set on going to the US , they were put on
the s top list and nothing could be done about it.


Bermuda House of Assembly Let me say that one of the things that I am
certainly in support of is the fact that it takes away the
discretionary part of it. Because you could have a po-liceman who stops a young man one night who has had a previous encounter with him on something total-ly different and here he is, he has stopped this young
man who has cannabis on him and he decides , No,
I’m not gonna use any discretion ; I’m just gonna have
him charged. So it takes away that discretionary part,
and I am certainly in favour of t hat.
I am not going to say anything else other than
the fact that I think that we are progressing. As I said,
I do not condone the use of . . . the social use of mar ijuana, but at the same time everyone has the choice to make. Thank you very much, Madam Deputy
Speaker .

Thank you very much, Member.
The Chair now recognises the Minister from
constituency 23, the Honourable Gordon- Pamplin.
You have the floor.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, Ma dam Deputy Speaker .
Madam Deputy Speaker , there are one or two
things that I would just like to dispel before I continue
with my presentation. And one was that we need to stop playing politics. Let me just say that whether the Honourable Member from [constituency] 19, I believe
he is, the Honourable Member Commissiong, —

[Inaudible interjection]
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: [Constituency] 21.
—said that it is not coincidental that there is a
Bill from the Government and we need to stop playing
politics with this. Let me just say that the approach
that we have taken . . . the Honourable Attorney General did mention in his presentation that he had asked, we had discussed this around the table a year and a
half, two years ago. And then he had asked for a caution policy to be put in place. It took a significant per iod of time before that policy was able to be implemented and it has only been recently that this was
done. So this Bill as we are debating today was brought forward during that period of consultation.
And I think that it would be foolhardy for us to
just decide that this is a popular political thing to do to
be able to say to our young people , Come vote for us
because we have put marijuana on the books. Because what is more important is that we take the time
to ensure that we get it right. And that is the reason
why it has taken the time that it has taken and, hence, the reason for the Bill that the Government also has on the Order Paper. Because what the . . . and that
will obviously be debated at the appropriate time and I will not reflect on that . But I think what is important is
that if it is . . . it is better, in my estimation, it is better to be right than to be quick. And I think that this is one
of the things that we should bear in mind.
Let me just mention too, Madam Deputy
Speaker , that we are talking about possession of m arijuana. Let us not fool ourselves that when our young
people are in possession they are holding onto mar ijuana for somebody else, they are holding onto it for
safekeeping. They are holding onto it, they have it in
their possession because it is their intent to utilise it ,
to use it. And let me just say that the use of marijuana, as we have heard coming from empirical evidence that has been presented by the Minister, and infor-mation that I have taken to heart (because I actually
served in that position at one point in time), we heard
the Shadow Minister speak about the challenges of the use of marijuana on a young brain. The develo pment, the physiological development of a young per-son having been subjected to the use of marijuana, the impact, the psychosis that comes as a result —all
of the challenges —the memory attention, the balancing, the cognition, the public behaviour, things that become antisocial in reality because of the use of and exposure to marijuana at a time when their brains are still being developed. It is important that we take that
to heart.
So while we may say we . . . I do not want to
see any young person being disadvantaged because
of poor choices as a youngster. I have to say that a lot
of these challenges that we have are not just directed towards young people because we have some people
who are far older who decided that it was okay for
them to be able to smoke and historically it has not been a good thing to do.
So let me just say that it is difficult for me to
support widespread availability when we know the challenges, the mental health output, that comes as a
result. So when we take a step that says we want to
embrace the concept of decriminalising small portions of marijuana—and whether 7 grams . . . I do not even
know what 7 grams is like, I think somebody . . . you
know , I do not even know what it looks like, but —

[Inaudible interjection]
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon- Pamplin: Seven cigarettes,
okay, that seems like a lot . . . that s eems like a lot.

[Inaudible interjection]

Hon. Patricia J. Gordon- Pamplin: I do not know . I
cannot even visualise it because . . . as somebody
who does not —

[Inaudible interjection]

Hon. Patricia J. Gordon- Pamplin: I had an opportunity one time to go onto a tour , and they said in this
particular place, it was called the Spirit of Reggae ,
and it was the Bob Marley estate, and I went because
1746 19 May 2017 Official Hansard Report

Bermuda House of Assembly I love reggae music. And I went on this particular
event . . . you know , went on this outing and it was
called the Spirit of Reggae. So we went in and they
said [that] once you got into the compound you could
go over to this little window and you could order tea to
be collected when you are ready to go and/or you
could also purchase whatever you want, but you must
cons ume it here on the premises.
And I thought Oh, dear. So I went in and there
was one lady who was on our bus who decided that
she was going to take advantage of the opportunity that was being presented and she came away with God only knows . . . it looked like a cigar -type size of
something. It was humungous! And she carried . . . I
do not know what it is called, but she carried on . . .
and all I could think of was I understand why this does not appeal to me because the stench that comes out of that stuff is so offensive. I just cannot imagine that anybody wants to be up close and personal with this
on a regular basis.
However, that said, when it comes to our
young people . . . and that is where my sympathies
kind of lie , because I believe that, notwithstanding that
their brains are still developing and they are half -
baked when they might decide that this is an appr opriate course of action for them to actually engage in
the smoking of marijuana, it still also shows that they are only half -baked in terms of their ability to make
proper choices and to evaluate what the long- term
repercussions and ramifications of their actions might
be.
So I think that it is incumbent upon us as a
community, but more importantly, as parents. We
have a responsibility not to divest ourselves of our responsibilities for good parenting. We have to be able to let our young people know that while their
buddies might be willing to do this, this is not accept able in your home. However , if such is the choice that
they make, there are c onsequences. And now based
on the Bill that has come before us, maybe the con-sequences are not quite so dire. But I think it is quite
important for us to underscore what it is that we must
impart to our young people .
We have seen, you know, psychotic young
people. And I can remember when I was in my pos ition as Minister for Health, having had the opportunity
to interact with Dr. Chantelle Simmons who is a psychologist/ psychiatrist at MAWI , and some of the i mpacts that she has articulated as to the experiences that they have had in dealing with young people who have had challenges as a result of marijuana use and the evidence that they have been able to glean from a clinical perspective, which indicates that the use
thereof is completely unacceptable in the develo pment of a young brain.
And I think that we have to make sure that we
bring that parental intervention and the community
intervention to the extent that . . . it is one thing to say
that we decriminalise it and if you get caught with it, it is going to . . . you know , you will not be put on a stop
list somewhere because your name will not appear in
the paper. By the same token we have a bigger r esponsibility and that bigger responsibility is that of the education process so that our young people under-stand the impact of what their choices might be.
Now the one thing I wanted to point out was
that when we first started discussing this (and this has been quite a while back) Eric Holder had an interac-tion with the Honourable Member from [constituency] 31, I think, the Honourable Member Pettingill,
who—
[Inaudible interjection]

Hon. Patricia J. Gordon- Pamplin: [Constituency] 25.
I have got these constituencies all mixed up and I
apologise. And I do not smoke pot , so that is not the
reason for the confusion. I just do not know who is
where.
But the challenge that Eric Holder brought up
with the then Attorney General was that you cannot be
in possession if there has not been supply. And cross -
border supply is still . . . it is not just a misdemeanour,
it is a criminal offence. So we also have to look at, on
the one hand, when we are saying that it is okay for . .
. well, not okay , but we will accept and we will have a
level of tolerance for our young people to possess “X” quantity (knowing that possession means that they are going to use it), that we also have to consider this
cross- border transportation of something which is very
clearly illegal.
Whether we look further down the road, as
two Honourable Members have spoken to, in terms of
cultivation for personal use and taxation and all those sorts of things, I think that is still light -years away for
us. Because I think for us to come to a stage of ac-ceptance, to believe that we can bring this kind of leg-islation today, that we can consider . . . with amendments coming from both sides of the aisle so that we can embrace and move forward on something that
can be seen to assist our young people in not being
on the outside of their opportunities, of precluding themselves from having proper opportunities as time goes on, I think that we have to look at it.
So let us just say that, you know, the caution
policy that was brought into being with the necessary
consultations that were required as a result would
have been a slower approach to getting us to where we are trying to get to today. I will reiterate my concern that it is more important to be right than to be quick. However, as Honourable Members have a lready articulated, we have talked about this for 30
years. For 30 years we have talked about the impact.
For 30 years we have talked about the negative ou tcome for our young people who have been put on
stop lists.
We have seen now . . . I heard one of my
honourable colleagues the other day say that their


Bermuda House of Assembly friend who had a misdemeanour at the age of, I think,
16 or 17, is now grown; married, with children . And he
cannot take his children to Disney World because he
does not have the ability to go into the United States. Now, I do know, as the Honourable Member Commis-siong indicated earlier, that he has worked on havi ng
waivers done for significant numbers of people when
he was in his position in the Cabinet Office. It was a
while back that he actually served in that capacity in
the Cabinet Office when that matter was being brought to the fore, so it is not something that has just come up today.
This is an issue that has plagued us, that we
have tried to find a suitable resolution for and we have been reluctant. And I do not think there is reluctance
because of fear, it is reluctance, in my estimation, b ecause we want to ensure that we are not doing the wrong thing. That is not fear, that is just being prag-matic, it is being cautious, and it is saying that we do
not want to make a decision in this House and have it
weighing on our shoulders that we have done som ething that, when we look at it in retrospect, that we have ruined our community. So we have to be very mindful of these sorts of things.
And as the Honourable Shadow Minister for
Health indicated, she said, you know, we must saf eguard our youth and . . . it was a ctually a bit of a dichotomy, you know . I thought we were kind of on the
horns of a dilemma in the one breath to say we have to safeguard our youth and on the other hand to say
we will enable them to use [marijuana] by not criminalising them , but let us make sure they have education,
let us make sure they have counselling, let us make
sure that they have access to proper treatment should they be caught up in this sort of thing.
I think that, you know, the Honourable Attorney General has indicated that some people can con-trol their exposures and others cannot. I do know of situations in which . . . and you know when you see
things from up close and personal from a family per-spective you can have a different view of things . And it
is easy to stand here and say, you know, Suzy’s son
has been put on the stop list, my son hasn’t. But is it
because my son is so angelic that he has not partic ipated in this activity or is it that Suzy’s son got caught and my son did not? T hose are the sorts of situations
that, obviously, we have to consider and we have to
balance and we have to make sure that there is fai rness that is being employed.
I will not speak much longer, Madam Deputy
Speaker, only suffice it to say that we also must di fferentiate between the medical aspect of marijuana
use and the recreational aspect of marijuana use. I can remember as Minister of Health that I was one of
the . . . you know, it was . . . it was, I guess, a very
kind of touchy kind of situation within the Ministry when I was asked if I would sign a certificate which would permit an individual to bring in a cannabinoid oil to treat a certain medical condition. And I think you are intimately knowledgeable about that particular situation.
And when you look at those situations, to say
that cannabis and cannabinoid products were illegal
. . . and that is one of the reasons why the Honourable
Health Ministers we have today . . . we looked at
those situations to ensure that we minimised the . . .
you know, we legalised certain products because it is
not right for us as legislators to frustrate the efforts but
allow comfort for people are suffering and where their
only comfort level will come from the use of a cann abinoid product. It is undoubted that there are medic inal qualities and that there are posi tive benefits that
can come out of the proper use of marijuana and its products and by -products.
What we do not want is to give an impression
that from this Honourable House of Assembly we are
saying to our young people, G o out, do everything that
you want to do, smoke as much as you want to
smoke, because as long as you don’t have more than
7 grams we are going to protect you from that. We
want to protect them a little bit further , and this is
where I say the parental responsibility must take its course.
And we want to ensure, Madam Deputy
Speaker, that when that parental responsibility kicks in, that it is not just within the family environment, that it is within the societal environment that we try to pr otect our young people from themselves. Because we have a more mature attitude and approach, we have
more knowledge, we can see a bigger picture than
can some of our young people as they decide that this is a particularly attractive way for them to be able to utilise their time, efforts, and energies.
We d o not wish to undermine the educational
abilities of our children—the comprehension abilities —
of our young people. We do not want them to find themselves on the back foot before they have the o pportunity to start going forward with the bat and bat-ting forw ard.

[Hon. K. H. Randolph Horton, Speaker, in the Chair]

Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Because it is i mportant, Mr. Speaker, that our young people are pr otected from themselves.
So with what we are trying to do today, with
holding hands across the aisle trying to come up with
a solution that is appropriate, we must bear in mind
that there may be some pitfalls along the way . The
Attorney General did speak to certain conventions that are in place that we have to abide by, and the Ho nourable Member Crockwell did ask about the specifics
of those conventions. I do not have those specifics, so
I cannot share that information at this point in time, but you can be assured I will look that up and I will edu-cate myself with respect to what the negative implic ations of what it is that we are trying to do might be.
1748 19 May 2017 Official Hansard Report

Bermuda House of Assembly But with all that said, Mr. Speaker, my primary
concern is the wellbeing of our community and the
safety and the protection of our young people.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to start off by saying
that I would like to thank the Hon ourable Shadow A ttorney General for finally bringing this. You know I
have heard some Members before me . . . some say it
is being rushed, others acknowledge that we have been talking about this issue for quite some time.
A lot of us in this House, Mr. Speaker, have
experienced the use of marijuana at some level or
another during our younger years , and if not us direc tly, we know someone who has, Mr. Speaker.
But before I get into my remarks, Mr. Speaker,
I would like to say something. Now, as the Shadow
Minister now responsible for drug policy reform , I
would like to suggest that we do not let the horse out of the stable before we talk about drug education. We need to start teaching our children drug education in our schools from as early an age as possible, the e ffects of not only marijuana but also alcohol. A lot of times we talk about education after the horse is out of
the stable. We have to recognise that we have a subculture here, Mr. Speaker, marijuana and alcohol especially, and we have to address it as such and stop
waiting until stuff happens before we decide to protect our children.
Mr. Speaker, I remember when I was a
youngster there was a song called Legali ze [It]. I am
not advocating us going that far, but this conversation has been going on for quite some time—I am talking about it 30– 35 years ago. Right? And I am raising that
to say . . . because depending on the studies that you
do, Mr. Speaker, you can have a case to support the
use of marijuana just as you can have it to talk about
the ills of marijuana. I remember how that song went —it was the cure of asthma and orders of the—I
cannot remember the words right now . . . there was a
time that I remembered every verse. But it has been
quite some time now, Mr. Speaker .

Yes, but, Mr. Speaker, there
is something else I heard one of our Honourable
Member s speak of. And a lot of time we gloss over
stuff.
The Honourable Member from constituency
19, I think, said that she does not differentiate b etween yo ung black men and young white men because they are all one. Right? Not in the world I was raised in. I was raised right here in Bermy , in Berm uda. And the young black men have been unjustly p enalised for marijuana use. How do I know this? Each
one of us has a family member, a friend, a cousin, and some of us have experienced it ourselves. So as much as we [would] like to live in an ideal world where
we think we are all treated the same and whatnot, we
have to be realistic. Young black men in this country have been subjected to the ramifications of being caught with marijuana vastly outnumbering those of any other race in Bermuda. So, let us call a spade a
spade.
Mr. Speaker, as I go on . . . I have a whole lot
of notes here. One thing I will try to do real quick as I
am doing some research just now when someone asked how much is seven grams and I blurted out about seven cigarettes and some people said no, no,
no, it cannot be. So I went on Google, Wikipedia—
whatever you want to call it —and one cigarette, a
Marlboro cigarette is approximately one gram. So, so,
while people fix it differently, Madam, what I am sa ying is just the facts because if we are going to talk about facts, it is right here.

Hon. Jeanne J. Atherden: Point of clarification, Mr.
Speaker .

Yes?

POINT OF CLARIFICATION
Hon. Jeanne J. Atherden: I think that while a cigarette, a Marlboro cigarette, might be one gram, if you
went . . . and I must admit, I did google it as well. It
has been suggested that a joint, or a cigarette, per se,
in the marijuana sense—

[Inaudible interjections]
Hon. Jeanne J. Atherden: In the marijuana sense
was 0.3 grams. And what I am trying to say is that
obviously, what I call a regular cigarette . . . yes, it is all going to be all tobacco. But when I googled it, and I
went to another place as well, it indicated that it was more like . . . in a marijuana cigarette you have 0.3 [grams] and, therefore, that meant your seven grams


Bermuda House of Assembly allowed you to come up with 21 cigarettes. Now, as I
said when I was talking about this I was not going to
talk about what else they cut it with because you know
people cut cigarettes with other things. Thank you, Mr.
Speaker .

Mr. Speaker, I would like to
thank the Honourable Member. I am not going to go
back and forth about how much seven grams produces when it comes to a marijuana cigarette. But, never-theless, my research has shown something a little different.
But, Mr. Speaker, I have heard some other
Honourable Member s talk about the need for us to
discu ss allowing people to grow it. I think there has to
be a real conversation about that because right now marijuana in Bermuda is illegal. So how does it get here? It gets here by various means. And if we do not have the discussion . . . if we do not have the discussion of allowing people to grow it, then, again, I think we are putting the cart before the horse, Mr. Speaker .
Those people that we represent while up here, I know they are happy that at least we are having the conver-sation and we are starting somewhere. But as it
stands, marijuana is still illegal. And if we do not talk
about how it gets into the hands, seven grams or whatever, then that is an issue that is going to def initely have to come back before this House.
So, Mr. Speaker, in saying that, when we
have these seven grams passed, I definitely agree
with the Honourable Shadow Attorney General that
we have to start from somewhere because when this happens then that person, or persons, who have these cigarettes is going to be able to smoke [wher e]?
In public places? Or are they just going to be able to smoke in the privacy of their homes? These are the
kinds of things that we have to discuss and get clear,
Mr. Speaker .
Another thing is that some call us hypocrites
because we stand up here and go back and forth
about marijuana, but alcohol is definitely the drug, the
substance, that causes more harm from a financial
point of view, from a physical point of view, even road deaths, Mr. Speaker . I, for one, have been intimately
part of one of those tragic circumstances because of the use of alcohol. If we are going to have any real debate, that is where we have to start. Start talking
about alcohol, because there are no studies which
show that marijuana is as destructive on our comm unity as alcohol is.
And, I have another note here, Mr. Speaker . I
am not going to talk long because others have already talked, but there are some things in our community,
Mr. Speaker, that we are now debating and contemplating that, to me, are more disruptive in our comm unity and have the potential to be disruptive in our
community more so than whether or not we decrim inalise the use of marijuana. And in so doing, Mr.
Speaker, we have to consciously think about are we going to have a retroactive stance on those people
who are now incarcerated for small amounts of mar ijuana. This is a good step, Mr. Speaker, but I think we
need to go further. Those that are out in our community listening, they are saying, Okay, at last. Some think
it is political. I, for one, do not think so because that
man and woman that I encounter in my constituency, in that other Bermuda when we talk about, Two Bermudas, that subculture of ours is not thinking politics. They are thinking of when are we as politicians going to get up and lead and finally address the issue of what we are going to do in decriminalising marijuana.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker .

Thank you, Honourable Member . The
Chair will now recognise the Honourable Member
from constituency 6, MP Wayne Furbert.
You have the floor.

Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Thank you, Mr. Speaker .
Mr. Speaker, the Honourable Member from
[constituency] 22, I believe it is, the Minister of Imm igration, I believe, that is the Ministry —23—talking
about parents bringing up to their children in regard to
this particular topic that we are discussing today.
Whether it is 3 grams, 1 ounce, 1 gram, 10 grams,
100 grams . . . parental guidance and teaching will
always be the case. So I do not think that is a big to pic. That is important. I have to declare my interests . . . and last time I think everybody was around here talking about how much they smoked and how much they
got high. I am going to declare my interest today. I have never smoked. Never smoked.
I do not know about you, Mr. Speaker, but I
have never —

[Inaudible interjections and laughter ]

Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: I have never.
I remember the first time, Mr. Speaker, that I
smoked a cigarette. I was sitting out on the rocks of Hamilton Parish with my brother and these other guys
. . . these guys always g ot locked up. I mean, these
guys, I am not going to call their names, but they a lways . . . they owned the prison. So, we were down
there on the rocks and my uncle came down talking
about, I’m going to tell your daddy! Tell your daddy! I
never smoked ever again. I was not —I just puffed—
[Inaudible interjections]
Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: I did not even inhale. No, no,
this is cigarette.
[Inaudible interjections]
Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: I did not have time to because the guy said he would tell my daddy. I ne ver
smoked from there on. But every one of those guys
1750 19 May 2017 Official Hansard Report

Bermuda House of Assembly that was there stayed on . . . I am not going to call one
of the guys because he is a civil servant today. A
cousin of mine, but I am not going to call his name, but Hamilton Parish, a colleague from Ha milton Parish
who is my cousin—
[Inaudible interjections]
Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: But this guy, the other two
guys, they are dead now because they were always
up there. I mean they ruled Casemates. They did. You know?
So, I have never smoked. I have never had a
desire to. And most of my colleagues know that even when I go to drink, I drink a Perrier and Rose’s Lime right now. Once in a while I drink a little champagne and wine. But, you know, that is because of my up-bringing. My parents . . . my father drank, everybody knows. But my mother never did. So I kind of followed
in my mother’s shoes and, to date, my brother, the
same way. I have never seen him indulge in any type of activities.
But this was a tough one. I heard my honourable friend, Shawn Crockwell, talk about he would
have liked to have been in the caucus. But we had
leadership in the caucus. It was about leadership and finding some type of balance between those who did not want anything and those who wanted probably even a little more. It was to find a balance. So we had good leadership that won over, and I respect the
Honourable Leader, David Burt, who led the charge
on finding this consensus amongst our group.
We talked about decriminalisation, depenal isation, all those types of things. And, you know, this is not the first time this Bill has been done. It has been out for a long time. Even when the Honourable Marc
Bean was the Leader we talked about bringing (this
was years ago) a leadership role about where we should go. And the main thing was, How do we not lock up our young people? And it was, I consider, the main discussion. And not yet make it legalised. I
mean, it was finding this balance.
And so we came down to the conclusion that
if a person is caught with . . . and we discussed the
amount of grams, to be honest. We discussed it. Some high, some low. And I think within the law right now there is the . . . those who are criminal lawyers
can tell, I think within the statutes the magistrate, the
prosecution, can . . . the prosecutors can, I think you can go up to seven grams and they can decide whether they would bring a case. I believe it is, up to seven grams. I think it was something like that.
And the Government is bringing three grams.
Okay. We had a report done by those individual s
about two or three years ago, probably by the Premier who had a committee looking at legalisation of marij uana. It has taken a long time for the Government to act. A long time. I think they are really acting right now because they need some of the young people’s votes. We are getting down to election time. They want to
[be able] to go back tell their young crowd— let us be
honest —We supported you, we got your thing
through. That is where we are. It is not about whether
they wanted three, four, five, six, or seven. I have done something for you. So they can have a video, a
nice shot, a video like they have been doing all the
other videos around Bermuda. You know, down in St.
George’s, up at Dockyard, the airport. You might be having a guy smoking three of them, so I can get it for
you.
That is politics. We were not doing politics.
We put this forward three or four years ago. It was
about doing what we thought was right. And I said that
it took a long time. Right? I am just not into this. We are just not into it. But when I was in, when the PLP
was in Government, they had this caution policy. It was the same thing. A person was caught, and I b elieve they took it from them. I do not think they said,
By the way, I am cautioning you. Go ahead and keep
on smoking. I think they took it away from him or her
and said, Off you go . So it was based on that guise,
when the OBA became Government. They had a ca ution policy.
So, that is where we are. It is almost like a
caution policy or we go and say we decriminalise it. Because at the end of the day, the individual is caught
and they say, Give -it-to-me, type of thing, and off on
your way . So they want to have this racket. There are
many young people . . . and we have talked about this
on and on and on, talked about how young people
are, and older people. I have a gentleman in my co nstituency, he must be almost 70 now and he cannot even travel. And I think it was smaller than that. Small amount . . . and he is always talking to me, for years,
Wayne, how are we doing on that ? And I think every
Governor has looked at it to see how we can work with the US Government on how we are working this out.
So, we are here, and I support it based on the
education process that we talked about, on the pr ocess of confiscation, because if it was just to legalise it my hand probably would not have gone up in the room. But we are here.

[Inaudible interjections]

Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: And as time goes on, the
world changes, I am surprised Members on that
side—

Honourable Member , be careful.

Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Mr. Speaker, last time you
said that, people thought you were talking to me. I just
want to make sure that people . . .

[Inaudible interjections]



Bermuda House of Assembly Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: In the last . . . Mr. Speaker I
had a joke last week when he kind of raised his voice
(I will use that terminology). All my friends thought he
was shouting at me. I want to make sure he was not talking to me just now. I mean, people were texting
me, Wayne, I heard the Speaker shouting at you. No.
So, that is where we are at. The idea of bringing something . . . and I said, time may change. I
mean, who would have thought . . . I would not have thought, at least not in my time, the courts ruled on same -sex marriage. And I heard my honourable friend
touch on that, both of my colleagues on this side. I
would not have thought that we would have been here
at this time. So, somewhere in the future, it may be
even . . . it may . . . I mean, I heard some people talking about it is good for cancer and everything else. I
might, I might . . . the doctor might even prescribe it to me if I ever get cancer. I do not know. I just cannot imagine the use of it.
So, we talked about drug education in this Bill,
of individuals going through that. We talked about . . . one of the real reasons is because we do not want our
young people put on the stop list. And I think that is very important. I think those two things are very key.
And, yes, the Government last week brought a Bill, it
was talking about three grams. I do not know if you are able to get high off three grams. Maybe somebody can tell me . . . individuals who —

[Inaudible interjections]
Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Yes. So guess what? That is
right. So you can get high off —

Yes.

[Laughter]

Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: I am saying, people who
have not been used to it . . . there must be some i mpact on an individual. That is my point.
So three grams or seven grams do not make
a major difference. Where the courts, I think the prosecutors right now, allow up to so much and, again, I am not sure if any criminal lawyers around here can . . . but I thought we based it on that particular seven grams. I thought it was based on that where the pros-ecutor can decide to not even go to court. I thought
that is what it was. I might be wrong. But I hope some
legal mind can test it out. So, that is where we are at. And I am hoping that the Government at the end of
the day will support it. Not because this party has put it forward, but because at this time it is probably the right thing for us to do. Parents will continue to give guidance to their children no matter what the amount
of grams will be and we have to move forward.
Mr. Speaker, just so that everybody will get a
little light -headed (and that is not pun intended), but a
man goes to the bank with 25 (I told this earlier) kilogram bags of marijuana and hands it over to the cas hier. The cashier sa ys, What is this for? And the man
says, I came here to open a “Joint Account.”
[Laughter]

Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Thank you, Mr. Speaker .

[Laughter]

Thank you. Thank you, Honourable
Member .
The Chair will now recognise the Honourable
Premier. You have the floor, sir.

Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Thank you, Mr. Speaker .
The Honourable Member certainly should not try to be
a comedian.

[Laughter]

Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: But I knew we would descen d into the weed eventually.

[Laughter]
Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Mr. Speaker, this has
been, I think, a very interesting debate. And I apprec iate the contribution so far of Members who have kept
it at a good level with everyone obviously taking some time to think through what they have to say to deal
with a very important subject.
We are here today because just like many
other things that have taken place in the world it is important that we do two things. There is some libera lisation in our policy as we deal with an issue that has impacted our community for some time, and that issue is young people—especially young black males —who
have been certainly extremely disadvantaged be-cause of small amounts of marijuana. And we have talked about it for some time, as colleagues have said, and now we are here today reaching across the aisle together.
The Honourable Member who just came into
the House, the Honourable Member from constituency
25, said that we move forward. No, that is not the slo-gan that we are using. We forward together. You had
it a little bit wrong. We forward together. We are wor king together, we are forward together. So, I just want to correct that —
1752 19 May 2017 Official Hansard Report

Bermuda House of Assembly An Hon. Member: Not backwards.

Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: And not backwards —
Members now, we are on the same team moving forward together.

Forward together.
Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: But, Mr. Speaker, this was
a commitment that I think both political parties have
talked about for some time. So, obviously, I think it shows a good example to the people of Bermuda that we can come up here and to some extent work t ogether.
I think colleagues are well aware we tabled a
Bill in the House last week and we had this on the agenda through the Throne Speech. There has been some conversation so far during this debate which refers to the changes to policy we made in regard to
medical marijuana and I think that was a real breakthrough to allow our community the opportunity to use the medical aspects of marijuana in an appropriate way.
I think it is imp ortant as we discuss this Bill t oday before we get into Committee that I stop and r eflect a little bit about the use of marijuana generally. The first part I want to reflect on, Mr. Speaker, is the
medical impact of it. And there has been some di scussion on it tonight.
You know, people talk about the good, about
the bad about it, but I also think we need to reflect, Mr. Speaker, a bit about the unknown. You know, there
are some challenges that people have with health that marijuana has shown to have some significant i mpacts, such as epilepsy. I have seen many documen-taries that show just how effective it can be and I have
seen how families have moved in the United States to
other jurisdictions to allow them to obtain the product, and it has greatly helped their children. Those are ex-amples that appear to have worked, and not only is there scientific evidence, Mr. Speaker, but there is
actual real evidence on humans helping to improve their lives.
There is a lot of bad and unknown as well.
One of the challenges that we have here in our com-munity, Mr. Speaker, and I think the Honourable
Member from constituency 16 referred to it, you know,
the alcohol and drug culture that we have. Now clear-ly, I do not want to stand here tonight and have an ybody believe that I want more people to use alcohol or to use any drug. I think it can have a significant impact on your life and it can be quite often done in very ne gative ways. And, so, as we discuss these amendments here tonight we need to really understand that
there are consequences with every decision that we make.
These decisions are life impacting decisions,
just like the young man who goes out pack racing and has a horrendous accident and loses his life or maims himself. Those are impactful decisions that stay wit h
you for the rest of your life. Just as the young man who goes out and just has a couple of joints and is stopped. Those are the decisions, up to this point, that
put you on the stop list. And I am glad that we are here now addressing it. But, if we can take a number of things out of this, a way forward where we protect
and help a lot of our young people moving forward
that is one good thing.
But another thing that should come out of it is
we have talked a lot about education. And the educ ation part really has to be something that people want
to do. I know, Mr. Speaker, the Department of National Drug Control do a lot of work in the schools and at young ages. They talk about alcohol and drugs. But it seems that too many people are not paying attention to or listening to the message. And as time moves on,
it appears that more young people are getting i nvolved in some of those lifestyle habits which is concerning. It is clear to me and scientific evidence has
proven it that young males develop at a slower rate
than females do, and if we do not do all we can to en-sure that our young people are getting the proper ed-ucation and being prepared to accept that education,
we are not going to have the next generation we want
to be our leaders. And so as we talk about m aking
these changes, we have to be genuine and sincere about education. And education not only comes from those who are charged with our education, in our schools, the helping agencies, the educational agencies like the Department of National Drug Control, but
it also has to come through the parents.
We need to take more responsibility because
quite often we talk about the responsibility but we do
not enact the responsibility. You know, we see our young people coming home at late hours and we do
not question what they were out doing. We see our
young people hanging in places that we do not want them to hang and we do not question what they are doing. We see our young people not motivated as ty pical young people should do. They should have the
energy and the wherewithal, but we do not question
why they are in that position.
I think it is interesting . . . colleagues have
talked about the impacts of marijuana on community and it referred to other jurisdictions. I will just tell two little stories, Mr. Speaker, that hit me pretty strongly
last year when I was in the Azores. We were moving around the island and looking at a lot of important points that the President wanted to show us. And when we were coming from one location I questioned the number of young people that were hanging out continually as we went through small towns. We
would see young people hanging out, and it was ten,
eleven o’clock in the morning, just hanging outside the grocery store, on the streets. And the Minister of State had said that they had a real challenge with the com-plete liberalisation of the drug policy in the country, that too many of the young people were getting i nBermuda House of Assembly volved at a young age and losing their desire to work,
get motivated and move forward. And the authorities
had little i mpact on getting them off the streets and
back in the right direction because the only thing they could do was education. But they lost that motivation.
So, I go from there to a couple of weeks ago,
and I was telling my honourable colleagues this. I just
came home and turned on the TV one night. I only
watch news or sports. Those are the only two things —
probably like you, Mr. Speaker , news or sports. And
when I turned it on, it came on to CNN, and Sanjay Gupta was there talking about marijuana. And, you know, Dr. Sanjay Gupta has been focusing on this for
a number of years now and has done some good st ories about it. This one was a new series that he had done three years after, I believe, Mr. Speaker, they
had liberalised their drug laws in Colorado. And he
was talking to a psychologist who was saying that he had seen in the three years a drastic increase in the
number of young males, specifically, who had used
marijuana and now it was just taking their motivation out of life. So, instead of the young males, you know,
15-, 16- , 17- year olds getting up, going to school,
coming home from school, out there on their skat eboards or out there doing activities after school, all they wanted to do was wake up in the morning, go have a joint and sit and play video gam es.
So, as we make these changes, Mr. Speaker,
we have to understand that we are here today b ecause we are trying to correct something that puts a
lot of our young people in a very disadvantaged pos ition in their life. But at the same time, there will be
some consequences by the liberalisation. And we
need to do a much better job than we are doing now to ensure that our young people have the opportunity in life that we were afforded. We were afforded that
opportunity because we made it to this Chamber. We
have achieved something very significant by being
elected to this Chamber. We need to put our young people in the best position they can be to be put in this position.
So, I am glad that we have come here today
and have a constructive debate on this. But as we move forward, the changes that we will vote on later are only the first steps in the important steps that we need to make sure that we have a healthy and vibrant community. And that is the key, Mr. Speaker .
Now, another area that I want to touch on is
the amount. And I am not going to speak on this long because I am not an expert —three grams, seven
grams, or whatever. All I know is we can take advice from the experts, and I have listened to what people in Chambers have said and the DPP’s office and the
Department of National Drug Control, and they say that seven is just pushing that envelope a little bit too far. I also talked to a couple of defence lawyers and some have said the same thing about that. So, I think we need to exercise caution on what we are doing
because, for me, our first step . . . the goal is to deal with the stop list. And as we move forward from there
we need to make sure that we make good decisions,
and the amount is a decision that I have heard from colleagues that there is some uncertainty about.
Another thing, Mr. Speaker, that I think is i mportant to reflect on just a bit is the impact of alcohol and drugs in the workplace. You know, many bus inesses now have more entrenched standards of ap-plication and employment, Mr. Speak er. In other
words, if you looked 20 years ago and you applied for a job, it was highly unlikely that you would see, “Will you subject yourself to a random drug test?” But this is pretty much a standard thing in many jobs thoughout the Island, especially jobs where you are driving or
handling, dealing with dangerous equipment. And, so,
we need to tell our young people, and everyone throughout the community, that just because we are liberalising our laws to deal with a challenge, we see that the workforce is still going to require that we have
standards for them. And you should not think that you will be able to get away with going to work high or drunk. You cannot. You have to perform at the highest level.
Now, Mr. Speaker, the last point that I want to
reflect on is this stop list which has been the bane of
probably thousands of people just in my lifetime alone. Every Member of this House has stories that they tell. And one story that hit me years ago was when I first started canvassing. This man at the time was a young middle -aged person, and he said he has razed every
politician off his doorstep because when he was 17 he got caught with two joints and he had been on the stop list ever since. Every time I see him now (we have become pretty good friends), he says the same
story about that. And he said, Now it has gone from
me explaining to my children what I did, to my grand-children. Those types of things —you think for two ci garettes that this man has probably carried it now 40
years with him. How many times has he applied for a waiver? And how many times has he travelled to the United States? And, Mr. Speaker, let me be clear. The
United States . . . it is their right. They can do what
they want. But this man has probably travelled in those 40 years —and I am not sure that is the exact
number —but he has probably travelled to the United
States 50, 60, 70 times —never had a problem. Still
has to get that waiver.
It cannot be. It cannot be the appropriate thing
to do, Mr. Speaker . So, I am glad we are here tonig ht
to deal with that stop list issue and I think all parli amentarians, all politicians, want to deal with that. And as we deal with that stop list issue tonight, Mr. Speak-er, we need to now focus our attention on being able
to look at expunging peoples’ records in this regard and also to remove people from the stop list because as we are taking a step to help our people as we move forward . . . and the help is going to have to come from the education and the guidance— we cannot say it is just all right to go out and use alcohol and
1754 19 May 2017 Official Hansard Report

Bermuda House of Assembly drugs, people have to be responsible. We also need
to see if we can get some of those people who have
been on [the stop list] for decades off.
I think that is a progressive way to approach
this situation as well, Mr. Speaker . And that is going to
take some work —all of us working together, because,
as I said, any country has the right to have a stop list.
And it is also our right to question it and to give it a
persuasive argument of why it is important that we make some changes. As I wrap up a little bit on the stop list, Mr.
Speaker, it has been unfair and discriminatory in
many cases. Colleagues have talked about that a lot.
What is also unfair and discriminatory about it as well
is that the decision is discretionary. So some people will fall through the cracks and travel many times with a very minor offence, and then somebody else goes down to the airport and they bump into somebody who
knows him and it is, Hey, didn’t you once do this? And
if a US Customs officer says something like that to
you, what are you going to tell him? You are going to tell him the truth. Yes, 25 years ago I did have that
problem. Bam! You are on the stop list. I just travelled
three months ago, never had a problem.
So this is a challenge and I understand the
frustration of young people. And we have all —
everyone in this House— had somebody who lobbied
them. You know, just recently I had a boxer who was trying to go away (I think to box in Ohio) —their first
fight away. He was stopped by that. If we really want
to move our community forward this is a powerful step. So I am pleased tonight to see that we are ha ving a constructive discussion with all of us coming t ogether to try to move this forward in the right way.
But this is not going to end all the chall enges
we have alluded to. This is a good beginning but we
still have a lot of work to do, and we need to go out of
here tonight, and we need to let the community un-derstand what we have done and continue to work on some of the challenges because alcohol and drugs are still a tremendous hindrance to the well -being of
our community. And just like everything, using them in appropriate levels can be acceptable in some circu mstances. But those appropriate levels are always up for debate.
So, Mr. Speaker, I am g lad that we are reac hing across the aisle in many different directions here
tonight and I look forward to a continued good discussion on this piece of legislation. Thank you, sir.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker .
I am not going to be long with my comments
in this particular matter. Firstly, I wish to commend the
Shadow Attorney General for bringing this Bill, re-tabling a Bill on a matter that, certainly for Members on this side, has been a subject of attention for quite
some time. But, as with many issues, requires deep
thought, discussion, debate, and a coming to a con-clusion about how you are going to approach it, b ecause there are many issues like this that cultivate strong emotions, strong opinions, and have not been easy in any era, certainly over the past 50 years or
more, for any administration to directly handle.
So, that has to be accepted. And I do not think
there are a whole lot of necessarily political points to
be scored here by anyone. And if, as has been perhaps suggested . . . that this is, you know, we are in an election season, Mr. Speaker, and that this is an
effort to perhaps score a point by whomever. I am not so sure whether that is going to be the result here be-cause this is an issue that affects many. And for many of us it has been a process of getting to the point where we are now as an issue of this strong complex-ion has gone through much discussion, debate, and in
some cases compromise, to get to a point where it
can be brought to a Chamber like this one and for people to deal with it in almost a way that is not that contentious.
I myself, when it comes to this issue, I have
had to go through a process of getting to where we are now. Being concerned, certainly as a former Health Minister, with the effects of addiction, the ef-fects that the consumption of stimulants, whether they are any type [affecting] the health and welfare of a country or community, is something of concern. How
you manage that as a country is important. So when you seek to potentially liberalise or give certain relax ations, often people are looking for how do you ensure that people can get on a path to fixing themselves or removing, if they are at a point of addiction, in like the use of a particular stimulant, because there is clearly
a cost if you want to put this down to a cost as a Government or as an administration. There are costs as-sociated with the consumption of stimulants that often
are destructive.
Not only is there the monetary cost but there
is a social cost and the health cost that countries, whether they are small like ours or large like others, that have spent trillions of dollars to attack the issue of drugs. That is a cost and ultimately those costs are not sustainable. You have to find ways to either pr ovide your people with an avenue to cure their addi ctions, if that is where they are, or find a way to prevent the entry of those substances into your community and then find a way to ensure that people can deal
with these issues in a way that is not destructive s ocially.
For me, the main factor that has moved me to
give unqualified support for a Bill like this is the fact that I no longer desire to see the young men and
women of this country criminalised for the use of mar ijuana in a way that is destructive to their health or their futures or that of their families. Simple. And I am


Bermuda House of Assembly prepared to do whatever it is as a legislator to get
there because I have seen this too much now.
You know, I am tired of seeing it. I want to see
a situation where people can do whatever they wish in
the freedom of their own space without the possibility of repercussions. I want to see our young people . . . and we all were young once. And I have stood in this
House and said when I was young I indulged, just like many young Bermudian men did at the time as a teenager, experimenting, learning about the world.
Yes, I am no different from many. But I made
choices which put me in the place where I am now,
and I do not do such things anymore. That was many,
many years ago. But I did it as a young, adventurous
person. Not uncommon for many Bermudians. But you have to make choices of where you are going to take your life. Some people that I was with at the time
made a different choice and they have stayed exactly, unfortunately, in a situation that did not improve their
lives. They were not able to due to addiction, due to
other situations that they were confronted with be-cause of their use of stimul ants like marijuana.
And it is not so much that the substance was
a problem, but it is the situation it brought them into—
like with the authorities, like with the police. Possibly a
conviction or put in jail and thus restricted from their movement outside the country which may have hampered their opportunities for education and for other development opportunities. That is the process I would like to see eliminated and my support for this
Bill is geared with that premise. How can we stop that
destructive process which has for decades ruined many lives of many people in this country? Mostly people of African descent. Mostly young men of Afr ican descent. Mostly young men who look like me and many people in this House. So that is what I want to
see, Mr. Speaker. So, I am happy that my party has
been able to go through a process where we can embrace a Bill like this, bring it to this House and let it go through any process it wishes that will get it suppor ted. So, I am happy to be in support of that process
that gets this Bill approved and the means of what we
must do to get it there.
As the Honourable Member who spoke just
before, who sits in constituency 10, says, this is a pr ocess. Now, I have been frustrated with the process
because I think that some steps that have been made
over the past four years were just not enough. I do not
believe in the earlier points over the past four years that the Government has been as forthright as they should be. They had a Cannabis Review Committee at one point. Certainly, they made their own proclam ations as a party in the last election about what they
would do around it, and I have found, unfortunately,
and I am just speaking . . . it is not to cast any blame,
but I am stating facts. I believe that the steps that were taken, which the Government may have thought
were satisfactory . . . I did not believe they were. I did not believe it was true to the aspiration that they had
presented to the public at the time.
I do not believe that having gone through the
Cannabis Review Committee with its recommendations, Mr. Speaker, and then only come forth with certain amendments that focused on medical marijuana when actually that issue was brought to the fore to
deal with the issue of how our young people are i mpacted by the circumstances they had been presented
with over decades with the use of marijuana. That was unsatisfactory because that was not the first -priority
issue. Although, I will certainly say that the medical efforts around this are positive. They certainly are addressing one of the issues around marijuana and perhaps now, because not only here in Bermuda but also
globally, Mr. Speaker, there is more of an openness in
openly researching possible uses in a pharmaceutical way of marijuana. Just a few years ago, this was not the environment that we were confronted with and,
arguably, Mr. Speaker, it may be that a few years ago
we could not have been where we are now —5, 10, 20
years —despite the passionate feelings that people
had around it.
The Honourable Member who sits on this side
for constituency 16, Mr. Speaker, made reference to a
song by Peter Tosh, I think it was, Legalize It —

[Inaudible interjections]

Yes? Peter Tosh? Yes, Legalize It . Decades -old song. But speaking to the issue
about that . . . at that time that song was controversial.
And certainly . . . well, yes, it may still be to some. But,
certainly, to many people in this House, it probably is not anymore because it is now . . . we have all gone
decades into where that song is now, or close to
where it is and what it means. When it did come out it
was revolutionary. Again, many have had to go that road and finally get to where others maybe have been for many years.
Mr. Speaker, here we are . . . and I would just
like to perhaps briefly address some of the comments that have been made that I have heard that perhaps what we are doing may be sending the wrong mes-sage. I have heard that phrase. Well, trying to create a situation where people are no longer going to find themselves confronted by the law in ways that are
exponentially damaging to them and their futures can-not be sending the wrong message. This is an effort to try and do that and start the process of doing that. That is just the beginning. That cannot be sending the wrong message to our citizens, Mr. Speaker . And certainly, those of us who may have some difficulty perhaps in addressing this, that is perhaps how we can
address it with our constituents. We are trying to deal with a situation by taking the step that is going to limit the exposure that many of our citizens will have to the
justice system that often starts a path of self -
destruction. That is what we are trying to do.
1756 19 May 2017 Official Hansard Report

Bermuda House of Assembly Playing politics, Mr. Speaker ? Really? Well,
you know, maybe some people believe that, like I said
earlier that the Opposition is playing politics around
this. But as the record will show, Mr. Speaker, you
know, we brought the first Bill to address this some years ago. And there was no election on the horizon then. We are re- tabling a Bill that we had already
brought to this House because it is time, and we want, as an Opposition . . . and I recognise that the Gov-ernment has also brought a Bill, and certainly, that the Government made steps to try and deal with it. But we brought a Bill. So, the politics of it . . . and yes, this is a political process, so we are not playing.
This is a serious process we are engaging in
with trying to move the country forward. And many people potentially will benefit. So, we are fulfilling our responsibility as legislators by bringing this. But as has been articulated already, the Opposition itself has had to go through a process to get where we are, so
this has not come easily. But we are here and we are
bringing this Bill and we brought this Bill to address a real issue. Doing [so] to make yourself popular? Well,
you know, I do not know, Mr. Speaker. Yes, popularity is nice and it works and perhaps it even brings you
certain benefits. But being right or standing on princ iple also is good as well, and standing by what you
believ e and moving forward with conviction to fulfil
that irrespective of the criticism that you might face. That is also good, too. And sometimes in the begi nning you are not popular, but in many cases eventua lly people get it and then they realise later why yo u
were doing it and the reasons for it.
I am hoping that Members of this House will
be within that category so people who may still have some issues with this will understand that this was not about popularity, at least for the Opposition. This was
about following through with a commitment that we
believe we wanted to make, that we promised the
community and many of our constituents and we are following through.
[Concerns about] the seriousness of the issue
and that we are not quite facing [them] . . . wel l, I think
everybody in this House understands the seriousness of the issue, Mr. Speaker . And that is why we are here
dealing with this. That is why the Government has brought their own Bill because they appreciate the seriousness of the issue that we face around the issue
of cannabis and the impacts it has had over our com-munity.
[There are the] concerns about it being
rushed. Well, I do not think anybody is rushed in this process. I am confident in saying, and I have already said, the Opposition has carefully considered the path
that we have taken and we are committed to it. We
are committed to making the steps necessary to bring about the change and so this has not been rushed, Mr. Speaker, I can assure you of that —not for the O pposition, not for Members on this side. So, Mr. Speaker, I do hope that this Bill is
supported by this House. I do hope that we can start the process, as has been echoed by Members of the Government, and we are starting a process and that this Bill will be a part of the beginning of how we a ddress this issue to the benefit of many in this country and potentially some of the possibilities that have
been raised in this House about other things that we
can do to better improve the situation for the future and for those who perhaps who have been wronged in the past around how our laws are structured around marijuana can also be fixed.
We cannot move large countries like the United States to do anything differently because they are doing what they are doing because they believe it is i n
their interests. But we can do what is in the interests of our own people to improve their situation. We can be responsible for the 22 square miles that we have responsibility for, and I hope that Members of this
House will see that what we are doing is exactly that.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker .

Thank you very
much, Mr. Speaker . Thank you.
It is with great pleasure that I have an opportunity to stand today and I could not help but wonder
and try to reflect back to when the subject of prohib ition was debated and discussed, I wonder whether it was just as an interesting a debate as we are having today.
Mr. Speaker, I have been accused by some of
being a liberal thinker. So I think with that being said it would be of no surprise for me to say, Mr. Speaker,
can you imagine how much revenue this Government (or any government) might earn through the taxation
of marijuana—a legalised marijuana? We could be
able to support many things from the revenue. It would be even more rewarding if, through a Gover nment, (perhaps we privatise it) having our own way of legally cultivating marijuana, legally controlling the availability and access to it. I think we would begin to
probably undermine those individuals that are the
perpetrators of being the supplier. Indeed, Mr. Speak-er, I cannot help but believe, being a liberal thinker,
that one day Members in this House, whoever they may be, will take a look at how a country can not only control but be able to handle better the ability to control who has access. But, Mr. Speaker, I have spoken
to the issue of cultivation in the past. I am in total su pport of the ability of individuals to have access, especially to cannabinoid oil or medicinal marijuana.
Mr. Speaker, I can tell a story of an old man
that lives in North Carolina who when you first speak


Bermuda House of Assembly to him he is nice and calm and you can have a wo nderful conversation. And after about 15 minutes he
starts to shake, and he shakes even further and he shakes and shakes until his speech is no longer clear. So he excuses himself (as I said he is an older man), and the whispering starts because he is just going to go and have a toke. He comes back out and he can
have a normal conversation. The alternate solution to
this gentleman is surgery —a surgery that could par alyse him for the rest of his life. So with Parkinson’s disease he has chosen to go this route. He does live in a country where it is not legalised—or in a state, I should say that is not legalised. But perhaps one day
people will recognise the benefits of medicinal marij uana, and the advantages.
Again, being a liberal thinker I cannot help but
imagine the thought that our police officers can be
going after the bigger drug dealers [rather] than spending their time on confiscating [from] the smaller
drug user. That, to me, is a day that I believe will be
short in coming if this legislation takes a step in which
it needs to take for the 21
st century.
I know trying to determine the quantity is extremely arbitrary, and I think countries across the
world have battled with this quantity. What should it
be? Mr. Speaker, I think that we can look to other
countries for advice but first of all and first and for emost, we have to determine for ourselves what that quantity might be. So, I think that this is going to be an interesting part of our discussions.
It is extremely important to put a stop to having individuals on this stop list. I was very . . . my heart
was warmed when I heard the Premier going one step further in saying we even need to look at those people who have current records. There is a gentleman that keeps calling me. He is very, very persistent. And I am
very grateful for his persistence. If I were him, I would be persistent as well. Like many, many, many others before him he found himself on the stop list and found his life almost come to a halt and life is to be grabbed and to be grasped. So, hopefully what we do today
will also have more steps to do in the future to allow
an individual like him to wipe his slate clean and let him live again.
I did do some research and I found it fascinating. We heard the Premier touch on Portugal. So, of course, it was of great interest and, Mr. Speaker, if I
can have a moment just to read a short portion of a report that was done following the decriminalisation of marijuana, particularly as it pertains to our children. And it is just a small part, “The Cato paper reports that between 2001 and 2006 in Portugal, rates of lifetime use of any illegal drug,” because, of course, they l egalised many other different forms of drugs as well as marijuana, “among seventh through ninth graders,” in age, are children, “fell from 14.1% [in use] to 10.6 %;
drug use in older teens also declined. Lifetime heroin use among 16- to-18-year-olds fell from 2.5% to 1.8%.” The reason why I wanted to point that out is,
yes, we cannot be blind to the consequences of our children, first of all, having access to a drug that is
illegal. Second of all, having the opportunity to use these drugs, but third of all, of course, to the mental challenges or the physical challenges that using mar ijuana can have at a young age. But there are many
reports that I think Bermuda has to rely on and to fall
back on. Portugal has had a change in their legislation for many, many years. The reports continue, that r eport that I just read, was from a period of time but was not presented until 12 years after they decriminalised the use of marijuana.
Mr. Speaker, again, we have heard a lot today
about ensuring that our young are no longer put on a
stop list, that we can take responsibility for educating our young so they understand what they need to do to get themselves into a position to take them through school. I do not particularly . . . I know we have heard
many times and from a few people today, and of
course outside of this environment, their concerns. And I think there are individuals who would like to see the demise and no one using marijuana or any form of drug. I know on this side of the House we are drug
tested, and there is a particular reason for that. I b elieve, as we have heard today, that there are certain
professions —bus drivers, taxi drivers, anyone who
uses any form of equipment —which require drug tes ting. And I am a supporter of drug testing in the work environment, especially when it comes to safety pr ecautions taking place, and I believe that is part of a safety precaution.
But, Mr. Speaker, we are well behind the eight
ball when it comes to decriminalising marijuana. We have a responsibility, and I know this is just decrim inalising it for one particular reason and specific and
that is our young —or not just young, those individuals
who are [being] put on the stop list. But, Mr. Speaker,
there are more people. And we have heard about m edicinal marijuana, medicinal uses. It does also bother
me that there are individuals who might be caught
today, yesterday, with certain quantities of marijuana
in their possession and that was not for joy and relaxation. It was for medicinal purposes. And I know that this Government has legalised certain . . . and some of them are. . . most of them . . . out of the three pr escriptions, and I could stand corrected, two of them
were synthetic and one of them had cannabinoid oil in
it.
But, Mr. Speaker, for those individuals who
are . . . for example, if I had cancer . . . I could put my
hand on a Bible right now and say if I had cancer I would be one of the first people that would make sure
that I had access to cannabinoid oil. I have read
enough and I have seen enough to know that it is beneficial. So for those individuals —not those indivi duals who may be put on a stop list, for those individu-als for medical purposes —who feel that it would be far
better for them to have access to perhaps a joint
1758 19 May 2017 Official Hansard Report

Bermuda House of Assembly which might last them for weeks in order for them to
feel better, I believe that to criminalise those individ uals is a sin, Mr. Speaker .
Now, that is my perso nal opinion and that is
indeed what we have been doing as well. So, not only
putting individuals on the stop list, but we have been putting individuals in some cases that may have been
ill and using marijuana as their way of making them
healthier in some cases, or feel better in others. It helps to get rid of the nauseous feelings individuals would have when they are under chemo. So, Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the fact that we
have legalised the ability to have access to cannabinoid oil. And it was alluded to earlier that I had an
individual in my constituency who we were able to
import the cannabinoid oil for. Just recently, as of last week, there is a young mother whose child is under the age of 10 years old who has a tumour, going away shortly. A doctor overseas has recommended access
to cannabinoid oil and cannabis. She had asked, she
contacted me, knowing that I was a full supporter and would be able to help her, to guide her.
Mr. Speaker, my recommendation was as it is
by the law. Get her doctor in the States to document
that this would be beneficial to her child, come back to
Bermuda, have her two doctors recommend if they feel that it would be beneficial for the child to have access to cannabinoid oil and this Government will make sure that they have access to cannabinoid oil.
There are legal ways of going about it.
This legislation that we have before us is
about the decriminalisation of cannabis. I, for one, will certainly be supporting the Bill that we have before us. I would have been supporting the Misuse of Drugs Amendment Act 2017 that was also laid on the [Order] Paper because, Mr. Speaker, while I understand that
there are some disadvantages and there are some challenges with individuals who are, and can become addicted to drugs, those drugs being any kind of drug, including food, including alcohol, addiction is som ething that no one can laugh at. Addiction is extremely
serious. But I do not believe that what we are doing
today is going to affect any form of those individuals with reference to addiction.
That is my personal opinion. I think it is the
way forward for Bermuda and I do look forward to Bermuda having perhaps an opportunity to open and
legalise personal cultivation as we heard earlier today
because it is an advantage, again, if I am someone
who is organic, I want to know that the substance I am using is as organic as the food that I put in my body.
So, Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased we are
here today and I am very pleased that we are moving
forward. This is one baby step and I am very pleased
to have an opportunity to speak to it.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker .

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and
thank you to all of the speakers that have gone before
me.
Mr. Speaker, it was back in May 2014, three
years ago, that the Cannabis Reform Collaborative
Report was tabled in this House and was debated. Mr. Speaker, we have had some progress in this area but
most will agree, and I think we have heard everyone
agree, that we just have not gone far enough.
Now, Mr. Speaker, I can reflect back on that
debate. When I listened to it I was not in these Cham-bers at that point, and what stands out in my mind is how ne arly every Member of this House, this side and
the other side, stood up and spoke volumes about how they support the Report, how we need to hurry up and get on with it, we need to decriminalise and hurry
up. There were even Members on the other side that
spoke to full legalisation as well. So, when I am sitting
here and listening to this debate today, I am sorely disappointed that after three years, for whatever rea-son, Members of the other side, except for a small
handful of them, have not got up and wanted to speak
to this Bill.
This is the type of thing, Mr. Speaker, when
people look at politics, especially our young people,
when they say, Wait a minute, because you were doing it, you were in favour, but now that you are not
doing it you are not in favour. What changed? And no
one can really explain that. No one can really artic ulate what makes me change except for what they see.
And what they see is that it just depends on who is bringing forth the idea.
So, in essence, we say we are up here b ecause we want to make Bermuda a better place. But, Mr. Speaker, that does not come with a caveat that
says that I am here to make Bermuda a better place only if it is my idea first. And so that is the sort of thing that we need to really, really get a grip on, especially
in this place and with the people out there that are
listening to what we do within these walls. Now, Mr. Speaker, notwithstanding that we
find ourselves in an election year, I am confident that this is the right step in moving forward. It is long overdue. It is long overdue.
Mr. Speaker, it is a known fact and we have
seen many people get up and talk about how they have known someone or maybe several people who have been affected by an indiscretion that they had as a youngster and we are now talking several years la ter that they are still having difficulties. And most of it
has revolved around the ability to fly freely to the US
without having to get a waiver to do so. But, Mr.
Speaker, when we look at our criminal justice system
and we look at it, it is possible for someone to commit a serious crime, serve time in jail, come out and still be able to fly freely back and forth to the States wit hBermuda House of Assembly out having to get a waiver. But you have a situation
where a young person in their youth may have made
a mistake —and I am not condoning their mistake because breaking the law is breaking the law —but you
have a situation where they may have been fined a couple of hundred dollars and then 5, 10, 15, 20- plus
years later they are still paying for that mistake.
So, you see, Mr. Speaker, I mean, look at
that. Does that set up seem fair? And as alluded to by a few speakers earlier, you know, we have to move with the times. This is, you know, we talk about a lot of things in Bermuda that need to change because eve-rybody else is doing it. You know, we cannot sit here
and cherry -pick. You cannot sit here and look at
something and because I want it, I am gung- ho for it,
but because I do not like it, then I am not even going to consider it. I am not saying you have to lik e it. I am
not saying you have to be for it, but I am asking that you consider it.
Now, Mr. Speaker, as the Member from constituency 16 spoke, and the Member that just sat down from constituency 4, and the Learned Members from [constituencies] 31 and 25 spoke, I am in that camp. And I do believe that with this type of Bill there
should be some sort of way that we can allow for personal cultivation because it still comes down to the
simple fact of, Yeah, we are not going to arrest you for
having seven grams or less (or whatever the number
may be), but where did you get it from? You know?
So if we are going to bring forth legislation like
this, it is my personal belief that we have to figure out a way to allow people to get it. And probably the only way to d o that is through personal cultivation or som ething that the Government puts in place to actually dispense or control the dispensing of cannabis.
So, when we look at it from that, I mean, I
would greatly like to see . . . and I have spoken to my friend, MP Scott, about this when we first were talking
about this. If we are going to allow this, then perhaps we should strengthen the laws on distribution and then, you know, bring in cultivation and the like. So,
you know, there is a balance across the system b ecause the last thing we want to do is encourage pe ople to go out and say, Well, now I can start selling because I will not get arrested. That is the last thing we
want to do and I do not think anybody here wants that
to happen. But I know that this is not the purpose of
this Bill but, you know, in all honesty we must talk
about some of the unintended consequences that may come from it. Mr. Speaker, I will not belabour these points
because they are well documented. Everyone has got up and spoken to pretty much the same thing, so, you
know, me getting up and talking to it as well is just
spinning the wheels. I think we are all at a point now —
and I have heard from the other side and I think that this is something that they can support. We know that we will have some amendments coming as well. I look forward to hearing what those amendments are when we get into Committee. But, Mr. Speaker, these pena lties that come from minor possession of this particular drug have been draconian and antiquated for a long time and changes to them are well overdue and now
is the time to do that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker .

Thank you, Honourable Member.
The Chair will recognise the Honourable
Member , the Minister for Planning —for the Environment, sorry —Minister Richar ds.
Hon. Sylvan D. Richards, Jr.: Thank you, Mr.
Speaker . It has been a very good debate. An enjoy able debate, actually. And I just wanted to make my
brief contribution.
You know, the marijuana situation —not just in
Bermuda, but worldwide —has been accelerating at a
pace that has been amazing for me to watch what has been happening in the US and different parts of the
world. It is amazing how attitudes have changed t owards marijuana in particular. And I have to, you
know, reflect back to when I was a youth, Mr. Speaker. Like many other young Bermudians I used to i ndulge every now and then.
I remember a situation, one night I was with a
group of my friends. We did what we had to do and then I left. And I was on my motorcycle at the time and I had a pouch. Back then, back in the ’70s, guys used to wear these pouches. And I had this pouch on and I had a joint in the front and I remember riding and for
some reason, I cannot remember what, I probably did
something, but the police pulled me over. So, I am there. It was me and two police officers. And the officer said to me, The way you are riding, you must be high, so I am going to search you. So he started to go
through my pockets. He went through my pockets, he
pulled everything out. And this pouch is sitting right in front, in clear view, and I said to myself, If this officer
goes for this pouch, I am out of here. And he
searched all my pockets, in my jacket, my pants, but
he never went in the pouch, Mr. Speaker .

[Inaudible interjections]
Hon. Sylvan D. Richar ds, Jr.: But I believe —
[Inaudible interjections]
Hon. Sylvan D. Richards, Jr.: That is okay. That is
okay. I am not the only one.
I believe that it was the good Lord who blinded that police officer, because my life would have
changed completely, Mr. Speaker . And I tell that story
to say that There [but for] the grace of God go I . If I
would have gotten busted that day, I probably would not have been able to go to university. The whole tr ajectory of my life would have gone someplace else.
That is why I tell that story. There [but for] the grace of
God go I.
1760 19 May 2017 Official Hansard Report

Bermuda House of Assembly So, I have always felt that we needed to do
something about those who were less fortunate than
myself who were convicted of having small amounts of marijuana, trivial amounts of marijuana, but be-cause they were convicted in our courts, they were
put on a stop list and they cannot travel to the United States. And we all grow up. Our lives evolve. We become fathers; we become upstanding citizens of soc iety. But yet you have this hanging over your head. S o,
it has always bothered me. I am sure it has bothered
everybody in this place. So, I am glad that we are f inally able to take a small step towards alleviating the likelihood of our young people—and in particular, our
young black men—getting criminal convictions and
having their lives ruined because of a juvenile mistake or a juvenile error. So, I am glad to see that happen.
You know, Mr. Speaker, the older I get the
more I am amazed at how things change around us, because of the things that we are debating in this
House, in this current era. I did not think that we would
be debating same- sex marriage, legalisation of mar ijuana. Attitudes have changed. Recently I went back to my alma mater for homecoming, Howard University. And I stood on main campus, it was a Saturday afternoon and they had a rap show going on. This was all
part of homecoming weekend and some guy was on stage rapping, Lil Uzi Vert, you all probably know who he is. I found out who he was. He was up there talking a bunch of nonsense.
But wh at amazed me, there had to be at least
10,000 young people on that campus and it seemed like 90 percent of them were smoking. They were getting high. And I said, This is incredible . So, I asked
somebody, I said, Look, how come everybody is smoking ?
They w ere like, Marijuana is legal in DC . Everybody was getting high.
I had to leave. I could not take it.

[Inaudible interjections and laughter ]

Hon. Sylvan D. Richards, Jr.: I could not take it. I
said, They drug test me in Bermuda and I am going to
fail my next drug test if I stay here.

[Laughter and inaudible interjections ]

Hon. Sylvan D. Richards, Jr.: But, you know, it was
on a whole different level, Honourable Member .
But when I think about, you know, this whole
situation with marijuana— and I am going to put it in a
Bermuda context —I ask myself this question often,
Why is it that (it appears to me) so many people in
Bermuda use substances to alter their consciousness? Whether it be alcohol, whether it be marijuana, whether it be cocaine, whether it be heroin. There is
stuff coming out every other year about some new drug. And I ask the question, Why do our people have to do this? To me, there is something lacking. And I am not a psychologist. I am not a psychiatrist. But if
people have a need to get high to the extent that we
do, I think there is an underlying issue that needs to be dealt with.
Now, two weeks ago the go- kart racing was at
Dockyard and I, and the Honourable Member Lawrence Scott, who led me, but before the races, I was
in the pits and I just happened to be standing by a
gentleman who works for one of the largest construc-tion companies in Bermuda. And I did not know who he was, but we struck up a conversation and the con-versation meandered for a while, and then it turned to
his company and what he said to me was this, Look,
we have a lot of work right now. We have more work
than we can handle and we need employees. Then he
said, But we cannot hire. We cannot find any Berm udians to hire bec ause if we get 20 applications, we
have to drug test them because we cannot have people on the construction site who are high.
[Inaudible interjections]
Hon. Sylvan D. Richards, Jr.: He said of those 19 or
20 applicants, he said, 17 or 18 of them are going to fail the drug test.
[Inaudible interjections]
Hon. Sylvan D. Richards, Jr.: And then he said, And
of the two that I can hire, one is going to flame out. He is not going to be cut out for it.
So, this is a real issue for Bermuda. The police were having a hard time a few years ago finding
suitable candidates. Maybe that is alleviated now b ecause people are out there looking for work. I know the fire services have a real issue finding suitable
candidates to hire because they could not pass the
drug test.
So, you know, we have to look at what we are
doing from all different perspectives because we are going into a period right now in our economy where
there is going to be a lot of construction work. And
these companies need to hire and they would prefer to hire Bermudians. This gentleman that I was talk ing
to, all he said was, We want to hire Bermudians. It is
cost-effective. It is beneficial for the community. But I
cannot find employees . So, what is he going to do?
He has got to hire a foreigner. And then everybody is up in arms because there are all these foreigners working in jobs that Bermudians can do.
You know, we have to get honest about this
thing. So, what I am saying, if anybody is listening, there is work out there for you. But you are going to
have to make a sacrifice if you really want to get employment. So, I will get down off that soapbox.
So, you know, Mr. Speaker, I am going to
support this Bill because it is time. But we really need to look at the ramifications of what we are getting ready to do because I believe— and I hope that we


Bermuda House of Assembly track this —that once we do this, I think the usage of
marijuana is going to go up in Bermuda a few ticks.
Which means that the problems that we already have, as I have kind of outlined with finding suitable em-ployees who can pass a drug test, it is going to b ecome even more of a challenge.
So, with that being said, I think we need to
move on with this because we cannot continue to give our youth criminal records because they choose to use and smoke a plant. Thank you, Mr. Speaker .

Thank you, Mr. Speaker ,
and good evening.
Mr. Speaker, this issue has been on our
agenda since our 2012 platform and while we can talk about it from many angles, the angle I would like to
take partially tonight is on fairness because we have Two Bermudas. The difference between my son and someone else’s son, if they are stopped, is kept to random chance. Random chance —the w him of the
police officer, the whim of the powers that be, can de-termine whether one person has their life changed, altered, irreversibly, or another goes scot -free.
Mr. Speaker, one of my favourite movies is an
old movie from 1938, it is called Angels wi th Dirty
Faces , and it is Cagney and Bogart and them. And the
whole premise of the movie began, there were two boys the same, they were committing a petty crime and one happened to be faster when the police came. So one is caught, goes off to reform school, gets i nvolved in a life of crime. The other ends up becoming a priest because their two paths, by the luck of the
draw, ended up going in very different directions.
And, so, Mr. Speaker, we think of the young
people whose potential has been stifled because of a
mistake, because of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, because of the roll of the dice, the hand of
fate.
Mr. Speaker, we have pushed for this because many of us see the effect on the lives of our constituents. I know many of my constituents who are law abiding, they are people who go to work every day, they pay their bills, they treat their wives or husbands right, by all accounts. Some of them even go to
church, Mr. Speaker. They are not damaging or har ming society, and these individuals are doing their thing. I find there are people more affected by alcohol in terms of their behaviour than people who smoke mar ijuana.
But, Mr. Speaker, there is another group and I
think the Honourable Member who just took his seat
alluded to it where it has become a crutch. Where it has become something to be concerned about, the place it takes in your life. And, Mr. Speaker, as we go
forward with this, I have to say that we have had three former Attorney Generals on this side of the Chamber
and one —two former Attorney Generals and one I ndependent former Attorney General for the One Bermuda Alliance Government —who have brushed aside
the fears laid by the Attorney General of the OBA. Now, I know that if you ask three lawyers a question you may get three different answers.

Six different answers, depending what the hourly rate is. But I am encouraged
by the fact that we have what appears to be bipartisan
support from the legal minds who have served as the
highest legal officer of the land in that those fears are without merit.
But, Mr. Speaker, when we do talk about the
fear, it does come to this: Each of us in our community who engages in marijuana needs to ask ourselves a
question. If you need it to get your confidence up to go
pull some leg, you need to examine your use. If you
need it to deal with the stress of your job and you cannot face the day without it, you need to examine your use. Mr. Speaker, if you are avoiding working in
certain places because they drug test, you need to examine your use.
I used to work at Shell International (it is now
Rubis) and they had a drug testing policy. I remember I was sitting off with some guys, Southampton Ran gers, and they said to me, Hey, how did you get that
job?
I said, I went and applied, whatever .
And they were like, Oh, you did not get down
there?
And I said, Yeah, but they drug test.
And they are like, No, no, I could not work
down there. I could not work down there with that .
We must not allow the things we use to hamper us —be it alcohol, be it weed, be it anything har der. We must move forward, and if you choose to i ndulge and you do not want to deal with drug testing, then you should consider entrepreneurship. You
should consider owning your own business. You
should consider putting yourself in a position where you do not have to put up with that. But we have to think about these things.
Mr. Speaker, like my honourable colleague
from constituency 4, I am a bit more liberal than most because I do look for ward to the day when we talk
about legalisation, taxation and regulation in this House. But where she and I do differ is that the ind ividuals now who are supplementing their income are some of the most brilliant minds in the country, Mr.
Speaker, if you ta lk to some of them. These are pe ople who would rival the best minds of Bermudiana
Road and Front Street if their life had gone on a di fferent path. So if we go forward with legalisation, I will hope that we will consider bringing the so- called grey
area into the mainstream because if you look across
1762 19 May 2017 Official Hansard Report

Bermuda House of Assembly history, Joseph Kennedy, the father of President John
F. Kennedy, was a bootlegger —the 1930s equivalent
of a drug dealer. But, they were able to merge into the
system and use their wealth to produce presidents, senators, congressmen as the generation went on.
And, Mr. Speaker, before I take my seat I
would like to take another point as well. When it
comes to the issue of tourism, how much of a deterrent has it been for a tourist to be dragged before our courts for a joint? How much of a warning sign has been thrown up about Bermuda because we have penalised tourists —not for bringing in amounts to poison our community, not for bringing in amounts that
are going to be thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars’ street value—joints. Dragged before our courts, embarrassed, humiliated, had to scratch the money together to get it . . . this is part of the pr ogress that we need to make, Mr. Speaker . But I think
the fundamental point has to be fairness. At the m oment, as it stands, we are all subject to the whims of fate and if you were in the right circle, you have the right father, right mother, you would probably be all right. But if you do not, your path will go in a different direction.
So, Mr. Speaker, I will support this Bill. I am
looking forward to supporting this Bill but I would also like to thank our former leader, the Honourable Marc Bean who used to sit in this Chamber because he and the teams behind the Honourable Member who has
brought this Bill to the House several times went out
across the community to test the pulse of the people
and the people are telling us it is time to move forward with this. And so, with that, Mr. Speaker, I take my
seat. Thank you.

Thank you, Honourable Member .
The Chair will now recognise the Honourable
Member from constituency 1, Junior Minister Kenneth
Bascome.
You have the floor.

Hon. Kenneth (Kenny) Bascome: Thank you, Mr.
Speaker .
I have listened, I have listened, and I have
listened. I have one question. We are talking about a
percentage of grams. How are we going about to d etermine the amount of grams that a person is carrying
when they are stopped? Are the police going to be
carrying scales with them?
[Inaudible interjections]
Hon. Kenneth (Kenny) B ascome: So, once again, I
am going to say, we are going to talk about set -up,
Mr. Speaker, because the police are going to take
those drugs, take their name, take the drugs to be
analysed . . . now am I going to be allowed to watch
that policeman as he is doing all that he is doing?

Just for the listening members
of the public and for the Honourable Member , in any
case of seizure the drugs are taken by the police and have to be analysed and weighed before a person is
effectively charged. So, it does not make any differ-ence. One has to assume that the police are acting in accordance with their proper duty on what they do. But that type of seizure is something that occurs in every single drug case, even if it looks like it is 300
pounds of marijuana, they still have to take it, weigh it
and assess what it is.

All right, thank you, thank you.
Carry on MP Bascome.
Hon. Kenneth (Kenny) Bascome: I will accept that,
Mr. Speaker. But I have listened to everyone talk and I
am going to say to you that I deal with young people, and particularly young black males, every day of my life, Mr. Speaker . And I have three pieces of paper
here, Mr. Speaker . I would like for you to look at them.
I am not going to show them to you all, but these three young men have come to me in the last week asking me to assist them to get waivers to be able to travel. No one wants to go to the United States, Mr. Speaker,
until they get to the airport and they are asked questions and they are then told, We will not accept you in
our country .
So, in dealing with young people, Mr. Speaker, I tell them to pay attention, do not carry any par aphernalia in their clothing. [I tell them that if] the police
stop them, to answer their questions very politely because you know, Mr. Speaker, when you are y oung
and the policeman stops you, we all automatically go into war mode. I have been through it, Mr. Speaker . I
know what it is all about.
So, I am saying before we rush to any dec isions this is something that needs to be looked upon seriously. There is an education process that needs to be carried out. I see young men every day who are charged out of their head, Mr. Speaker. And I just say
to them, H ow many joints have you had?
And they say, How do you know that there? I say, Man I can look at your eyes and tell
you.
You understand, Mr. Speaker? I have been
through it. You understand? So, I am saying this is
something that is very serious. I am not looking to score any political points, but I deal with young peoBermuda House of Assembly ple, young men in particular, every day. So, I am sa ying to you, Mr. Speaker, and to all the Honourable
Member s, let us not do this just to score some political
points. Let us assess, let us not make a mess.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker .

Thank you, Mr. Speaker .
I want to speak to three populations of people
within my constituency that have a vested interest in
this particular piece of legislation and the concept of decriminalising cannabis. One is the young person, and the other is the, I would say, mature adult and the other is the person who is reaching their senior years.
I would like to just speak to the three of them.
So, the young person in particular, my concern and my whole reason for having an interest in
this particular piece of legislation is the young person who may be a high school student. —this time of year,
graduation, school proms and the rest. And they go off and they are together and they are all socialising and they decide that they are going to smoke some can-nabis. And these oftentimes involve young black males. And one of the observations and experiences that I have had tha t was particularly hurtful was that,
you know, when you have a young black male who is on his own and because he may be a part of a party that goes beyond midnight and the police get in-volved, they come, they bust the young person or two and they trot them off to the police station. My exper ience with young black males in particular is that they
are then oftentimes left in the holding cells of the police station overnight. They are not able to get a shower, they look a hot mess and the next morning, of course, the cameras are all waiting on the corner to
film these young men being walked across the street
to go into the Magistrate’s Court to be heard. And oftentimes it has been an entire weekend where these young men have not had a chance to bathe or change their clothes and by the time Monday rolls around they look like criminals.
The other side of that, in all honesty, you have
got a young, more affluent male, let us say, who was at that same party whose mom and dad are able to show up on that —

[Inaudible interjections]

[Gavel]

—that are able to show up in
the early hours of a Sunday morning, they are able to whip their kid out of there because the parent can af-ford to bring a lawyer and the child is then taken home
very quickly because the lawyer is able to make spe-cial arrangement and by Monday morning when they walk into the court they are showered and dressed and have a suit on and a tie and they are the upstand-ing citizen. That, to me, is completely concerning.
And aside from that the male who got busted
and had to stay in the jailhouse for the entire weekend and is then filmed is the one who is recorded on the stop list because his name appears in the newspaper, whereas the other child, who came from a more afflu-ent environment, is able to side- line all of that public
exposure. So his chance of remaining anonymous is much greater.
Anything that we can do as a Government to
protect our young people from what is, in my opinion ,
a rite of passage almost as a young person in our day and age, that wants to smoke some cannabis in a s ocial environment, should not be penalised in that way and certainly should not be exposed to that kind of . . .
. just . . . I mean . . . I do not know how to describe it,
but just that exposure and that trauma that a young person has to go through which I think is completely
unnecessary for cannabis.
The other constituent that I am standing to
represent is, you know, the mature, sort of middleaged adult who probably still enjoys smoking a bit of cannabis on a social or in their home privately, on a pretty regular basis. And there is a stigma around being anywhere where there is cannabis and there is
absolutely no reason for it. In many cases, these are folks that do not even really . . . they do not want to drink because they feel that the effects of alcohol are much more detrimental, especially if having to drive and operate any kind of machinery, whether it is a
boat or what have you, and enjoy the natural effects of
cannabis. And they do not understand why they have to be exposed to this kind of stigma and scrutiny around their choice of social stimulation.
That group of people probably would like to
see us move a little further and move toward at least
being able to grow their own and have some control over the quality of the cannabis that they smoke. But, I am not sure that I want to go there but I am here to represent the idea that there are a group of people that would like to go there. And I understand their perspective.
The other, the third, is the more mature, the
master, the almost senior member of my constituency,
who has generated very close relationships with young people in our community. They are seeing the difficulty that our young black males in particular are
having is that just getting up on their own two feet in
Bermuda is a challenge. And when these children are facing, you know, just one closed door after the other, just one more hurdle that they cannot overcome, and these more m ature people who are doing their best to
support these young people can see the angst of
1764 19 May 2017 Official Hansard Report

Bermuda House of Assembly these young males, in particular, then there is this
level of sympathy when they realise that our young
males are kind of giving up on the workforce and are so traumatised or even depressed about the fact that they cannot get themselves into our workforce that they give up and they start getting high.
They start smoking more cannabis, as the
Minister was referring to, as a way of either self -
medicating or just altering their consciousness because it is so hurtful trying to get up on their feet in Bermuda as a young person, especially when they do not have that kind of support. So there are constit uents that are supporting these young people and they
see how difficult it is for these young men to get themselves going. And they would support the decriminal isation of cannabis simply because the idea that these
young kids that are depressed, they are getting high because they cannot get into the workforce. And now, on top of that, we are going to penalise them because
of their way of coping with the traumas of disenfran-chisement in our community.
My concern as we move toward more in- depth
legislation around decriminalisation of cannabis is that I just do not know how much of a commitment and
investigation we have really put into our community.
And I have some questions. When I first became a member of Parliament, I was put on the Treatment of Offenders Board. So I went up to Westgate and I went down to the prison farm on a regular basis and I ran into a psychiatrist who was there. I started a conversation with the psychiatrist. I asked him what was his
passion while he was there. And he said, Well, I am
doing an awful lot of research and I am finding that literally all of the men who are incarcerated in Berm uda have been in a bike accident of some sort, have
had some kind of trauma to their physical body, and
all of them have had some substance abuse or substance use in that they have and do smoke cannabis .
And his interest w as what was the relationship
between trauma due to a motorcycle accident and the self-medication through the smoking of cannabis ; and
if there is any way that we could investigate a little bit further why our young people are get ting high. Yes
there is the disenfranchisement and they cannot get
into the workforce. Maybe the idea that there are mi sdiagnosed physical traumas due to bike accidents and the like, and there is a level of self -medication. But we
have not had those conversations and we have not had a look at some of the more in- depth reasons why
our young people in particular may be getting high.
Now, the final piece that I am most concerned
about as well is that I certainly have had peers of mine and I have also spoken to the parents of young blac k
males in particular who have succumbed to schiz ophrenia and other mental disorders because of their use of cannabis, and it seems as though there is simply some sort of physiological reaction that our
males, our young black males in particular, seem to be susceptible to. And unless, you know, we can talk about education . . . absolutely. But there is also, in
my opinion, a need to at least look at what kind of
support we can put in place if we are going to decri minalise cannabis. Then, I believe as a comm unity it is
our responsibility to be able to set up some sort of support system for the parents and the victims of schizophrenia and other disorders that are directly
attributed to the use or misuse of cannabis. So, that is
something else that I would love to have incorporated
into this legislation or something that we create some sort of policy to accompany the legislation.
So I guess for me that is a big piece of it. I just
did want to make a mention . . . the Member in [constituency] 33 was talking about the tourists, and I want
to make a distinction. In my opinion, and from what I
understand, if a tourist is in Bermuda, oftentimes they are caught with any form of cannabis when they are getting off of a cruise ship or they are getting off of an airplane, and that is a crime under importation. So that
would not necessarily fall under this piece of law. So if we are talking about how we can allow tourists to bring their own cannabis into the Island to enjoy while they are here, then we are talking about amending another piece of legislation. So I just kind of wanted to
put that out there.
I guess, really, one of the final finals is that the
Member in [constituency] 13 was talking about, you
know, what made me change. Well, I mean, the first
day that I was rolled out as a candidate the first question that I was asked was whether I had ever consumed or smoked any cannabis. And I have. What
has made me change? Well, what has made me change is a level of maturity to know that I need to be alert every day. I need to make absolutely sure that I am accountable for the things that I do on a daily ba-sis. And one of the experiences that I have learned
from the use or partaking in some cannabis is that I
felt that my productivity was subdued. I felt that the effects of cannabis did relax me to a point where, yes,
I would sit around all day and think about all these wonderful things that I was going to do. But then I r ealised that I had been thinking about all of these wo nderful things without ever moving off of the couc h.
Right?

[Crosstalk]

Honourable Members, let us have a
little bit of respect.


Bermuda House of Assembly Ms. Susan E. Jackson: At some point, Mr. Speaker,
one has to take responsibility for the choices that they
make, and we cannot think that we can live a life that is consumed by the, you know, the participation and the smoking of cannabis and/or the choice of getting up and being productive members of this society. And I believe that there is a fine line that needs to be
crossed in that there are a number of professions that
make it very difficult to get away with both.
So, with that, I say that this legislation is a
long time coming. I completely support it but I also understand that it comes with a level of responsibility for all of those that may want to take advantage of the
consumption and the use of cannabis in this comm unity. Thanks, Mr. Speaker .

Thank you, Honourable Member .
The Chair will now recognise the Minister for
Education. Minister Cole Simons.
Hon. N. H. Cole Simons: Thank you, Mr. Speaker .
Mr. Speaker, I rise today to be one of the lone
voices. As the Minister of Education, I have had this
role since February, Mr. Speaker, and I know that our
schools from primary, secondary, tertiary, we have
encouraged our students to live a drug- free life. We
have encouraged our students to make wise choices. So, in my mind, it would be duplicitous of me to sup-port this legislation because it will basically allow the usage of marijuana to increase in this country. And,
so, Mr. Speaker, at this point in my career, I do not
see how I can support this legislation at this point in
time.
In addition, Mr. Speaker, I think more work
needs to be done in regard to the unintended cons equences. As I said, I take the premise that once we
liberalise the use of marijuana, the supply will go up
and the drug pushers or suppliers will have a field day
because there will be a higher demand for the supply. I have not heard any comments on how we are going to address the increase in supply and the increase of
illicit activity when it pertains to the suppliers of mar ijuana.
I have heard a few of us speak about the abi lity to cultivate their own marijuana for personal use. Again, that is a mitigating factor and I ask, where is the legislation that will support that? That should be
presented at the same time so that we can basically
look at all of the consequences and do the entire framework. This is a piece of legislation that has ram ifications that straddle the social fibre of this country and, as a consequence, all supporting legislation should have accompanied it, and this was not done.
So again, I am of the opinion that those in the
nefarious activity of providing marijuana to this country will have a field day and nothing has been done to address that, nothing has been said in this House to address that, and that —

Honourable Member, how many times
do I have to . . .
Thank you, carry on.

Hon. N. H. Cole Simons: —and nothing has been
said to address how we are going to manage that i ndustry and how we are going to bring that under co ntrol.
Mr. Speaker, the other concern that I have is,
as the Minister of Health has indicated, a number of
doctors have approached me and they have indicated that smoking marijuana by young people is causing physi ological damage to the brain, and the brain does
not fully develop until people are in their 20s. This was said to me by a number of GPs.
[Inaudible interjections]
Hon. N. H. Cole Simons: Agreed. (Some of us much
later, was said, and I tend to agree.)
And we know that most —most, not all of
them —of the marijuana users are our young people.
We all could tell stories of young people that have had
their brains fried that are sitting down in the mental
institution and they have been less productive than
they ought to be because of the challenges that they
face with the use of marijuana.
So again, I am not satisfied that we have done
enough work to bring this piece of legislation here t oday. The other issue in regard to entering the United
States of America . . . I am fully sympathetic in regard
to the challenges facing our young males because of the black list —

The stop list.

Hon. N. H. Cole Simons: Sorry, the stop list.

[Laughter and inaudible interjections ]
Hon. N. H. Cole Simons: Sorry about that.
But I want to say this. I have not heard an ything from the US Government, from the American
[Embassy /] Consul General, that said implementing
this legislation will allow us to have free access across our borders and that the stop list would be alleviated for our young men. I have not heard that. And, so I am
saying this, we are going to go into this exercise with
the intention of ensuring—
[Gavel]
Hon. N. H. Cole Simons: Going through this exercise
with the intention of not having our young men regi stered on the US black list [sic] .

Stop list.
Hon. N. H. Cole Simons: I am sorry, it keeps coming
to me. It might be subconscious.
1766 19 May 2017 Official Hansard Report

Bermuda House of Assembly [Inaudible interjections]

Hon. N. H. Cole Simons: Mr. Speaker, I would have
liked to have had the sign off from the US [Embassy/]Consul General or the US Government stating that this legislation is something that they can live with. And we do not have it today and I am not certain that
by passing this legislation we will achieve the objectives that we set out to achieve.
You heard the Attorney General indicate that
there were a number of treaties in place that will i mpact us if we change the legislation, and again, did we go to Government House? Did the Attorney General
find himself in a position to sign off on this in the event
that it is passed? Because if the Governor is going to not sign on it, the Attorney General cannot sign off on it, where do we stand? Where do we stand? It is inef-fective. The Attorney General will sign off on the legi slation b efore it goes to Government House. And so
the question becomes, if he cannot sign off for legisl ative reasons and if the Governor cannot sign off, what happens? Can this legislation come into effect? These answers have not been addressed by the Opposition.
Mr. Speaker, as I said, I think the Premier
wrapped it up nicely when he said that he was in the Azores and the Azores has decriminalised marijuana ––and my colleague, Ms. Jackson, she has just said earlier, she said it is time to get off the couch, take
back your life and move forward and do what you have to do. And, to me, that is the crux of the matter.
It comes back to choice, it comes back to identifying
who you are and what type of life you want to live.
So, Mr. Speaker, I cannot support this legi slation at this point in time because I do not believe that enough work has been implemented to [consider] the full consequences and the unintended consequences
the passing this legislation will have on our community. Thank you, Mr. Speaker .

I was not planning on speaking on
this topic, but having listened to numerous speakers
today I felt compelled to stand and add something to the debate.
As I said in a debate some time ago, we
heard [William] Jefferson Clinton say that he smoked marijuana and did not inhale. I am here to say that I did inhale in the past.

[Laughter]

And I have to make that clear. But I
do have, Mr. Speaker, two lovely grandsons today, as
I heard my MP friend, MP from Warwick, from [constituency] 26, say. And he knew they were listening.
But mine are one year old and just about five, so I am
pretty sure they are not listening. Actually, I hope they are not listening.
But anyhow, the truth is going to be told. You
know, as I heard my colleague, MP Jackson, say ear-lier, there does come a tim e in your life when you
have to decide to get up off the couch and get crac king. I myself, being an employer for the last 30 years, have recently . . . and we have a drug free workplace
at my businesses. And just recently I drug tested six
gentlemen and, of course, I happened to be . . . act ually, seven of us. And I was one. And I am happy to say I was drug free.

[Laughter]

I have to add that part. I do have certificates to prove that. But, of course, of the six Bermudians that I did drug test, four proved positive. Of course, this can become quite concerning when you
are asking gentlemen to operate equipment and
things like that. And I know facts. Contrary to what some think, marijuana does not make you jump off buildings. I want to make that quite clear.

[Inaudible interjections]

Right? It does not make you jump off
buildings. It may lead to further drugs and so on.
Mr. Speaker, over the years I have buried
many friends that, you know, would have used a combination of marijuana, alcohol, and everything else.
But the concern is the use of it. And we certainly do
not want to encourage the use of it. But I do under-stand the stop list. I mean, many years ago I was travelling with a friend and every single time—and he looked like me. Every single time he was pulled to the
side and had to go through something and I saw him
sweating and stuff. And this guy is a goalkeeper who you know very well, Mr. Speaker. You know, this was from a mistake that he made when he was 18 years old but he has had to deal with this all his life.
So I am, you know, concerned now being a
father and a grandfather and just . . . I know how
much it is used. I mean, just a couple of weeks ago (actually it might be two months ago now) I hired four young men who were 22. I asked them if they smoked
and they all said they were casual smokers. And more people smoke in Bermuda than what people think, but
honestly, I do not want to see this as something that
encourages wider use. And, of course, in Bermuda most p eople smoke and they mix tobacco in it. So,
obviously, it is not a healthy thing to do. It is not like you are smoking straight marijuana like you might do down in JA. You know, here you are actually mixing


Bermuda House of Assembly tobacco with it so it is a whole different thing and you
are doing that because it is very expensive and you
are doing that to spread it out.
You know, guys are spending hundreds of
dollars a week on marijuana and it is to get high and,
you know —

[Inaudible interjections]

Goodness. And the productivity just
drops.
We heard the Minister of Environment state
that many contractors —and it is their right —are sta ting that they want a drug- free workplace, and they do
want their employees who are using chainsaws and
equipment and everything el se being of a clear mind.
So, there is that concern as well— operating equi pment, et cetera, et cetera.
This is a touchy subject. Obviously, we are
looking at the stop list, and I have seen how many of my friends, colleagues, family members this has af-fected. But we also have to look at the health problems in regard to it because when it is used for medi cinal purposes it is not generally being smoked. There
are different ways that it is being used by that partic ular person. And I have watched numerous pr ogrammes on that. I do know there are lots of benefits
from it, particularly with some different ailments. But I
do feel that we need to be careful on how we promote it.
Again, I could go on and on about the personal stories, about seeing friends that, you know, from when I was a teenager, early 20s (got to be careful here, now) early 20s . . . and they continue. You
know, they are my . . . and many of them are dead because they advanced on to other drugs and they
just used them too much. So, from a health point we
just need to be very careful. That is all I want to add today, Mr. Speaker .
Thank you.

I was not going to speak on this,
and I will be brief, but I guess five hours into som ething that we all said we agreed on is kind of, you know . . . Being that everybody is talking I figured I would get up and say a few words as well.
I will note, however, that the Member who
brought this legislation acknowledged that there are
some pretty significant amendments that would have to be made. We are not even really discussing what it is that we are looking to pass, so I just want us to
make sure we are aware of that.
You know, we live in a society, Mr. Speaker,
where smoking weed is just commonplace. It is som ething that happens with the majority of the Bermuda
population. And it is not because we are depressed or got something wrong. That is what we did. I said many
times I grew up in a nice Christian family. I know what
it is like sitting down o n the street at seven o’clock in
the morning with the newspaper , Becks and a spliff —
that is kind of what we did. I grew up a couple of houses down and over the wall from MP Richards, so maybe, you know . . . and in our neighbourhood I
could probably count the number of people that did
not smoke weed on half of one hand. And that is a different issue which we have to address in our soci ety, and it does end up being a gateway drug in a vast majority of cases in Bermuda. And that is also som ething that we have to address.
I do support the decriminalisation of small
amounts of marijuana because mostly because of the restrictions that it has put, overwhelmingly, on our young black men. And there are reasons for that as well. Right? Now, I know what it is like being harassed
by the police. But it was not because I was black back
when I was a teenager. It was because I was being a pain in the behind, and that is kind of what happened. You know, we were not out in somebody’s backyard being quiet. We were down on the street being a nu isance. So, of course, you know you are going to bring
attention to yourself. And again, those are different
issues that we have to address in our society and this is not going to solve those problems. So, I understand why this is being done. And again, like I said, I support the decriminalisation of small amounts for that reason.
But we have got to address some other issues in our
society. And make no mistake about it. This is not go-ing to eliminate that stop list.
You know, I sat down with a former US Consul General and had this conversation in detail with regard to the stop list and what is happening. And he
said to me . . . and I asked if I could get him on CITV
and record this so we could make this available to people —and we did in a modified fashion with my first
Ministry. [He said to me] that the vast majority of peo-ple, from his knowledge, that are on a stop list in Ber-muda are [on it] because Bermudians are nice and
honest. You know ?
Do you have any convictions?
Oh yeah, I got stopped with this joint like a
long time ago but that . . . look, I got my certificate of
rehabilitation . . .
1768 19 May 2017 Official Hansard Report

Bermuda House of Assembly Remember that one that the former Gover nment did? Every single person that went down to the
airport with that certificate of rehabilitation . . . if they
were not on the stop list before they went, they were on the stop list after they showed them that piece of paper, because the US Immigration policy and that stop list, which comes under Immigration law, has
nothing to do with even federal laws or laws of state. It
is a completely different thing. And even if marijuana
is legal in Massachusetts, as someone said, or DC, I think Minister Richards talked about, United States Immigration policy states that they are not going to allow someone in the country that has had a convi ction or is associated with that.
And I said to that former Consul General,
Well, how do we deal with this?
He was like, Well, one of the first things I
would tell people, if I could . . . but then he specified , I
cannot say this and you cannot say that I said this to
say this (in other words I am not calling their name),
but just tell people to lie.
[I said,] Well, what do you mean ?
[He said,] Have you been convicted?
Nope. I have not. I have not done anything.
Because again, the vast majority on the stop
list of Bermuda have been on there because they are talking about something that they did years ago. And that is unfortunate. But these are some of the things that we actually need to understand and these are some of the things that we have to make sure that we
discuss in our community and talk about because
there are things that we do that just make that process a little bit harder for us.
This legislation is not going to fix that problem.
So, will it help in some instances? Absolutely. Is it the best use of police resources to go out. And, you know,
as Minister Richards gave his story . . . search som ebody down for a joint? No. But we do have a cha llenge in this small community that is important to a ddress. As the Minister of Education stated, we e ncourage our children to be drug free and there are reasons for that. There are proven psychological side
effects and issues that can be made or made worse with the continued use of narcotics. There are medic inal uses for marijuana. Medicinal uses for marijuana is not sitting down and smoking a spliff off of batts. That is a completely different thing.
So again, I support this. I think in our discussion today we should all recognise that there are some serious issues in our community that we have to talk about, we have to address, and we need to get on to dealing with. And let us not be fooled that this is going to be a panacea that is going to solve all of
these problems and make the stop list go away and
not have our tourists get stopped with a bag of weed coming off of a cruise ship or airplane, because these are all completely different things. And I know we are putting them all together as one solution that will hap-pen under this legislation that we are . . . I am not r e-ally quite s ure what it is going to look like. So I am
looking forward to seeing those amendments. And I am appreciative of that Learned Member who is open to looking at amendments from Members on this side and the Independent Member from [constituency] 25.
So, I kno w we will get on with this and we will
get this done, but let us not forget our young men and
some of the issues that will continue to plague our
community —which we have to address. And this is
not going to solve those problems. Thank you, Mr.
Speaker .

Thank you, Honourable Member .
The Chair will now recognise the Honourable
Member from . . . the Minister of Works. Minister Cannonier.
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: I am blaming the Honourable Member Scott for bringing the subject up —we are
now just continuing on the discussion. I was just teasing him about it.
I have an interesting experience in my life with
the usage of marijuana—not having partaken of it m yself, but actually seeing how it destroyed the life of my
father. So initially, when the subject used to come up,
I was completely against any form of decriminalis ation, legalisation of it, and the likes.
I watched the stages and saw schizophrenia
become a stronghold and destroy a beautiful man, in my estimation, a man who at one point in tim e was
playing Cup Match against yourself, Honourable
Member , Mr. Speaker. And as I matured through this
whole process and understood marijuana more, some impactful things happened along this journey with me.
Not too long ago I was at Johns Hopkins. And
my wife wanted to go to visit the Smithsonian, African
Smithsonian, there. And, you know that smell. It is a very distinctive smell. And I was like, oh- oh, you
know? Immediately, I am like someone is breaking the law right in the open, forgetting that these folks are just walking around just smoking it. And I saw a young
couple, a young black couple, you know, walking
along just grinning and laughing. And he was having a good time and smoking this spliff, joint, whatever you want to call it.
Also, the Honourable Member , the Finance
Minister and myself at our meet -and-greets came
across middle- aged sisters. And they were telling us
their plight with their mother who was having difficulty sleeping and loss of appetite, and the likes. And they were so . . . I guess they were kind of concerned that
they were buying this stuff and putting it in her food just to get some relief to her. And thereafter it led my
desire to try and understand a little more about the
medical side of things with marijuana. And as I began
to study and look at different periodicals and clips and movies —well, not movies, but editorials —on it, also
looking at Israel . . . and they have been doing masBermuda House of Assembly sive studies over there with marijuana. I realised there
were some incredible benefits, health benefits, to it.
So I have been trying to wrap my mind around
what it is exactly that we are attempting to do here,
and I realised that the attempt, of course, in decrim inalising up to seven grams is an attempt to ensure that we do not have more people going on the stop
list. So I get that. I get where we are trying to go.
But I am also concerned, like some of the
former Members that just got up, of the framework
around how exactly this is going to happen, because my concern is that, whilst we may increase the amount that police allow to just be in your casual possession, it does nothing to the dealer at all. And with
the dealer come all of the other illicit behaviours that are attached to a dealer. So maybe what we need to be looking at —and I am hoping that out of this as we
move forward there should be some more discus-sions, maybe a subcommittee or the likes, on this
here— is how we can address, how we deal with the
dealing of it. Because, to me, decriminalising it . . . it is
just that grey area.
You know, to me, it is so far behind what the
civilians are looking for, we should either be legalising it or coming up with a framework that makes some
sense, because the dealer is still going to do what he does, and the dealer is wilfully . . . wilfully . . . not participating in what we believe he should be participating in, in an economy or in society conducting himself in a manner that we believe to be legal. His activity is still
illegal.
So, I spoke to Member Honourable Scott
[about] his deliberation. I spoke to him afterwards as
to the real gist in what he is getting at. And I get that, and so I do support it. I do support it. But I believe that we need to hurry up. We are late. As legislators, we
are kind of late with this here. You know, this should
have been done a couple of years ago, and we should
already be moving on to the framework, which I think really should have happened where we should be. We are a small enough body that we could make changes
quickly within the Islands.
So, with that in mind, I will continue to look at
the success of other jurisdictions with this here. The medical implications and the benefits are just astound-ing with controlled use of marijuana. I hate to see the pharmaceuticals weigh in on this thing and come up
already with synthetics and the like so that they fill the
coffers for themselves when in actual fact if we would
allow for each member, if they so want, to have a couple of plants growing in the yard, then so be it. It certainly will deal with the dealers on the Island who are carrying themselves and their behaviour and carrying out illegal behaviour.
So I would like to see, especially our attorneys —and I am looking at some of them —to come up
with some framework that is going to deal with the
dealer. Because all this is going to do right now is say,
Hey look, the legislators are basically saying it is okay . So if a guy can buy up to seven grams, well, I am go-ing to keep feed ing him. But yet some of the other
things that . . . he is bringing this stuff in illegally and
all the likes, we have not addressed that framework.
So, I would like to see that.
The spirit of this here I believe in. So, with that
in mind, Mr. Speaker, and in the spirit of this here, I do
support it.

Thank you.
Any other Member care t o speak?
The Chair will recognise the Leader of the
Opposition, MP David Burt. You have the floor.
Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you very much, Mr.
Speaker .
Mr. Speaker, to the Honourable Member who
just took his seat, what I would say to that Honourable
Member in a trite, cliché sort of way is that Rome was
not built in a day. And we find ourselves today putting down an Opposition Bill which was promised in the Reply to our Throne Speech.
Now, Mr. Speaker, we have heard a lot of
statements today from the One Bermuda Alliance
benches, and we have heard contributions from
members of the Progressive Labour Party. And we have also had contributions from the Independent Members of the House. But I think what is clear is that the conversations today are almost the exact same as the conversations which took place when we debated
the Cannabis Reform Collaborative Report in this
House. And at that point in time they had recom-mended decriminalisation. And at that point in time there was a consensus in this House for decriminal isation. And at that point in time the Government said that they would conduct the necessary consultations.
And then nothing happened until 2016—the last
Throne Speech before an election. And that issue just popped right back up on the One Bermuda Alliance’s Throne Speech.
Mr. Speaker, if you will allow me I would like
to repeat something that I said in this Chamber on
2November 14th, and I quote, Mr. Speaker :
“Mr. Speaker, this year, for the first time since
2013, the One Bermuda Alliance has again raised the issue of decriminalisation of cannabis in their Throne Speech. A cynical person would say that this is just an
election ploy, but for the OBA this issue represents yet
another campaign promise unfulfilled and is an exam-ple of a government unwilling or unable to deal with an issue that affects the youth of this country.
“Mr. Speaker, this is also an issue of fairness,
as black people in our society are far more likely than
whites to be arrested, charged, and/or convicted for
cannabis possession. The criminalisation of our cit izens for minor non- violent possession is an open sore

2 Official Hansard Report , 14 November 2016, page 24
1770 19 May 2017 Official Hansard Report

Bermuda House of Assembly on our society, damaging the lives of hundreds of
Bermudians, young and old.
“Mr. Speaker, it is upsetting to hear the stories
on the doorstep of the young father who cannot go
away to see his child play in a sporting tournament
due to a conviction for simple possession many years ago. Many have been obstructed from years of real
opportunity to improve their lives and those of their
families. The Government again this year called for more consultation, while their continued inaction will see more young lives impacted forever.
“Mr. Speaker, the One Bermuda Alliance has
had time to lead on this issue, and they have failed.
Therefore, the PLP will table a Bill to remove c riminal
penalties for simple cannabis possession below a
prescribed amount.”
That was from the Throne Speech Reply delivered in this Honourable Chamber on November 14,
2016. What I will say, Mr. Speaker, to the voters of
this country is promise made by the Progressive Labour Party, promise kept by the Progressive Labour Party.

[Desk thumping]

Hon. E. David Burt: Because today we are going to
push forward this Bill which will bring fairness into this
country . . . a little level of fairness in this country .
The fact is, Mr. Speaker, we are not up here
condoning drug use. As far as I am concerned, I
would like to see far more progressive measures that
are taken so that we can actually reduce the amount of persons in this country on substance abuse. But I understand, as I said at the very beginning, Rome was not built in a day. But what this will do today, Mr.
Speaker, for individuals who are caught with simple
possession is that they will no longer have to fear their life being affected forever with a criminal record, Mr.
Speaker .
I have heard some discussions about the
amounts , and we have heard the discussions talking
about our largest trading partner, the United States,
where in the decriminalisation actions that they have had, everything that they have done is 28 grams. The amount is very low here, Mr. Speaker. We have set it at a low threshold, and we believe that this is the cor-rect way to go forward.
I am gratified by the support which has
seemed to come from the Government benches t oday, especially given that this Bill has been on the Order Paper since November. But there has not been a word of utterance of support . . . I will at least com-mend the Honourable Minister for Education. At least
he has been consistent in his position. But it seems as
though there are other Members on that side who are now, all of a sudden, singing a different tune. And it is interesting, because, as I said, Mr. Speaker, the Government has not led on this issue. It was very interes ting that after we tabled a Bill, and after that Bill sat on the Order Paper since November, all of a sudden last
week the Attorney General tried to table almost the
exact same Bill, Mr. Speaker .
Yet, [they] will somehow stand and argue that
what we are doing is not a good thing. That, Mr.
Speaker, is the One Bermuda Alliance Government
summed up in a nutshell. Unable to act, unable to
lead, and unsure of where they are going.
But, Mr. Speaker, the country can rest assured that the Progressive Labour Party will lead. The
Progressive Labour Party will take action. The Pr ogressive Labour Party will do what is necessary to bring fairness to the black men in this country, of
whom this has unjustly affected over the years. And
today, Mr. Speaker, hopefully we will take a small step
in the correct direction out of the able leadership of the Shadow Attorney General to make life more fair.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker .

[Desk thumping]

Thank you, Mr.
Speaker .
Mr. Speaker, I had not intended to speak because I thought a bit that the Attorney General on our side had done a very good job. But just listening to the
political rhetoric I just heard from the Opposition
Leader, I simply cannot let that stand.
I think the reason that the Government is pr epared to support this Bill —even though it is fundamentally flawed, as laid out by the Attorney General —is
because we understand that there are significant
amendments which are coming from t he Honourable
Member , Mr. Pettingill, who will give this Bill a chance
to actually get approval. And that is the concern that
we have had on this side, and that is why the Go vernment has been quite concerned. There have been
a lot of discussions back and forth between the Sha dow Attorney General, as I understand it, and certainly
his counterpart, the Attorney General on our side, about the problematic nature of the Bill as it is current-ly written. So, the reason there has been a change in
terms of the Government’s attitude towards this is simply because the Honourable Member , Mr. Petti ngill, has done, I think, a reasonable job to try and bring what is a flawed Bill, in terms of eventual passage potentially by the Governor, into something which can be appro ved.
Now, to somehow state that there has been
no leadership by the Government side is simply wrong. Prior to the Reply to the Throne Speech the Honourable Member just talked about from the Opposition, it was very clear in the Throne Speech that the


Bermuda House of Assembly Gover nment said it would bring a Bill to address this
issue which we have all talked about earlier tonight.
So, the fact of the matter is, I thought this debate was going fairly well. I will support this particular
Bill with the amendments, because otherwise I do not
think we could support it because it would simply ster ilise this issue the way it is currently drafted. That is
our understanding of it. But, in effect, with the
amendments which bring it closer to the direction the Government was taking, I think w e can work together
here to actually have this thing go through this eve ning.
I will end on that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker .

Thank you very much. Thank you,
thank you, Minister.
Any other Honourable Member care to speak?
So, the Chair will . . . there are no other Members speaking, so I am looking for the Member who brought the Bill.
Hon. Michael J. Scott: Here I am, Mr. Speaker .
So, Mr. Speaker, I regret the disingenuous
last presentation by the Minister of [Economic Deve lopment]. He vacuously and disingenuously states that
the Opposition Bill is now supported because it has been . . . had flaws improved. But what about the . . .
which is totally misleading because the Attorney Gen-eral of this country said that the Bill was terminally flawed by the inability to comply with treaty obligations
which would cause even the Governor not to get i nvolved. But somehow that is changing because the
OBA have seen the way the wind is blowing.
Mr. Speaker, I have been touched or influenced by some of the testimonies we have heard, personal testimonies about family members’ involv ement in drugs, and [the] conflation of either the sup-port of this or the non- support of this. I heard the Mi nister of Education righteously say this or give his just ification on behalf of the students of our country. Rightly he must defend our students. But on behalf of, and
purportedly in defence of students of our country, he
says that he cannot support it. But, really, the Minister of Education should be supporting this Bill because to conflate the pre- existing gross, dire consequences of
drugs in this country that have been taking place since the passage, in 1972 —which reflected a problem in
our country —of the Misuse of Drugs Act. Those problems have built up over time resulting in the courts having to say pass a Misuse of Drugs Act in 1972 to deal with this occurrence of the coming into this coun-try of drugs —Class A drugs.
Today’s Opposition action is not part of that
problem, which pre- existed. It is a tool to help a ddress, in a tiny way, really, now that I have heard the
whole debate . . . as the Opposition Leader has just indicated, there is so much to do. The combination of threats on family life to this country do not include just the inability of black males to have a family leader op-erate in the house and lead that family well because a
drug conviction is stopping them from leading that
family through work, landing work, and leaving the country, supporting his child overseas . . . all of these
things contribute to the malady and dire consequenc-es of drug presence in our country.
And today’s Opposition Bill is the tool to say
enough! It is a declaration to the country and to young black males, all black males, and all black women—the whole entire country —it is a declarat ion. We are
saying it is enough, we will take a step. It is regrett able that we cannot take and that we do not have the fortitude to take even bolder steps. Taking bold steps
in the country, Mr. Speaker, changes things. And I
have been most encouraged by presentations and
observations that recognise that regulation observed in other jurisdictions, regulation of drugs and the in-crease and layering of regulation into legalisation of drugs, has actually decreased drug usage, improved
health wraparounds around drug usage, and has had
positive incomes.
Just the way regulations well regulate the
broadcast industry, banking, this House . . . if you
have people who simply sit on their haunches and
say, Oh, this Bill is going to cause an uptick in usage
by our young people . . . if you have people negatively
and pessimistically taking that view, you will get . . . it
will be a self -fulfilling prophecy. But with constant pr ogressive regulation and addressing of this problem
you will see improvements. You will see new outcomes from bold steps. And this is what has been called for by the House, largely on . . . Members who have taken that position on the Government benches are to be commended. But it has also been taken up in large measure by speakers on this side of the
House. And, as I say, they most encouraged me because it really is what this debate is about.
I have heard the mistake made repeatedly
from Members of the Government who have spoken
exclusively that listing the legacy issues that have been happening since 1972 . . . and conflating them
with this Bill. Of course there are mind- altering i mpacts by abusive use of cannabis in this country on a
young mind. Of course, Mr. Speaker, there are those
who cannot handle the use of drugs and get weird and crazy. Of co urse there are drugs in our school, Mr.
Minister of Education, that should not be there. Of
course there is drug usage that becomes a gateway
possibility in this country. That is a big problem of
which I spoke and of which is documented in Dope,
Inc., a we ll-known text by Lyndon LaRouche, which
speaks to this general broad principle which was brought to my attention first by a dear and now departed legal colleague of mine, Tanoo Mylvaganam,
who had this experience in London as a senior pract itioner of the law who advised me, informed me, about the impact of dumping Class A drugs into communi-ties—whether in London or in South Central. And it
impacted me like a ton of bricks.
1772 19 May 2017 Official Hansard Report

Bermuda House of Assembly It clearly began happening here and the
agenda was menticide. Well, we have had a number
of testimonies in this House about menticide—death of the mind. It is a clinically demonstrated fact that in the wrong hands many minds will be destroyed. And we have heard Member after Member say that. But those evil promoters of dumping drugs either into . . .
that first began as Class A drug, dumping into com-munities across the world —and it has come here—
had that very objective in mind. Opiate of the people.
You have heard that expression? It has many deriv atives and reclassifications. It brings you less of a human being, particularly if it is abused.
Now, there is the recreational side. There is
the recreational side. But all of this is mixed up as part of a mixed scenario with its good, its recreational, and with its terrible and tragic and dark c onsequences.
Today, this tool is meant to advance into this dark ar-ea and say we will at least seek to protect. It is a
prophylactic by the Opposition to protect a situation
that we have observed amongst, primarily, our young black youth, and we are taking a step; a small step.
Mr. Speaker, I want to debunk all statements
that these actions are part of a liberalisation by the
Opposition of cannabis use. It is not. As the Honourable Member , Mr. Furbert, indicated earlier on today,
we approached this exercise in the caucus of the Pr ogressive Labour Party with sober reflection, and it is
the reason we had the outcome. Contrary to what the Minister of Economy has just said, it is the reason we
had a reflective and well -constructed Bill with honourable, noble intentions. And it was not part of liberalis ation or legalisation or a gimmick to gain votes. We
took the approach as I quoted in my speech that Barack Obama did, and Judge Tumin came here and diagnosed, that there is a disproportionate and un even targeting of young blacks in this country, turning
them into persons who occupy a penal colony as a consequence of over -prosecutorial activity by the p olice then, in those days, and to the extent that it is happening still.
That is not liberalisation. That is not w hat
happened in the Azores either. It was said by the Premier that in the Azores he noted or listened to the ministers there with whom he was visiting that it was liberalisation that was causing unmotivated young Azoreans to lie around. This is not what this Bill is
meant to do. It is meant to be the dentist’s tool to r emove a cavity from the problem of uneven, unjust,
unfair, targeted prosecutions, convictions that lead to destroying opportunities, destroying leadership. There is enough destruction of leadership attacks going on in this country in modern Bermuda as it is.
As seen by the attacks on Union leaders,
Reverend Tweed, Dr. Brown, the attacks on leader-ship are recent . . . attacks on family leadership
through these awful drug . . . and dire prospec ts of
drug use laws is old compared with these modern ones. We have got to stop this attack on leadership. It is the basis and reason for the bringing on the Bill by
the Opposition.
I was grateful for the Minister of Health indicating and offering an amendment that we include . . .
because, plainly, the Minister must have been impressed by the health element that was driven in the Bill by my colleague, the Learned and Honourable
Member , Ms. Kim Wilson, having the treatment r egimes. When the Minister asked me if we would consider a three- strikes rule she actually indicated it as a
two-strikes rule to also be the subject, Mr. Speaker, of
driving a mandatory treatment trigger in the Bill. It is
something that we can possibly take under advis ement as Mr. Pettingill and I —and the rest of the O pposition —deal with the amendments very shortly.
I want the Minister, because there has been
store placed on the fact that we are under treaty, and the Learned Attorney General has not produced an ything for myself or for y ourself, Mr. Speaker, that
shows what treaty Britain did sign up to and then ex-tend to us. I have searched for it. I would be greatly assisted by that because all of my reading on the tre aties is that it is in a very wonky, unsettled space, with Britain no t even signed up to these treaties. But if he
can clarify that it would make his argument stronger, in my respectful submission.
So it is a protection, which has been soberly
come to, to assist known identified inequalities in our system that we take this Bill up today. I am grateful,
therefore, for the way that we have changed the complexion of the House. We thought that it might go another way, but taking bold steps (if I might return to that theme) can have important outcomes.
The reason I singled out the Minister of Education . . . we do not seek, nor do we believe, that this Bill has in it the energy to work against zero tolerance
principles that he drives as Minister in his schools. It is
not meant to do that. And it ought not have that if we just firmly keep pursuing these injustices and inequal ities. Parents are not suddenly all going to start giving up on and developing the muscle in their children to
observe smart behaviours and wise behaviours. That
is not going to stop as a consequence of this B ill.
BFA officials are not going to suddenly see an
uptick in use of drugs on football grounds and cricket grounds as a result of this Bill if we continue to r espect the overarching aims of it and keep moving as
opposed to being labile and lazy about thes e initi atives. We have adopted preserved marriage, resisted
moves on same- sex marriage to deal with equality
and tolerance in our society . . . these are all important
steps towards firmer democracy, progressive democ-racy.
So, Mr. Speaker, these are the bases and
manifest policy drivers for the Bill today. I am extrem ely grateful for all Members of the Opposition who spoke more supportively and eloquently to it and the very helpful supportive observations by thoughtful Members of the Government who also spoke and had


Bermuda House of Assembly illumination upon this initiative. And with that, I ask
that the Bill be committed.

Thank you.
It has been moved that the Bill be committed.
Any objections to that?
There are none, so I will ask that the Deputy
[Speaker] please take the Chair [of Committee].

House in Committee at 8:47 pm
[Mrs. Suzann Roberts -Holshouser, Chairman]

COMMITTEE ON BILL

DECRIMINALISATION OF CANNABIS ACT 2017
[Misuse of Drugs (Decriminalisation of Cannabis )
Amendment Act 2017]

Members, we are now in Committee
of the whole [House] for further consideration of the
Bill entitled, Decriminalisation of Cannabis Act 2017
.
I call on the Opposition Member who brought
the Bill. Thank you. The Chair recognises the Member
from constituency 36. You have the floor.

Hon. Michael J. Scott: I thank you, Madam Chai rman.
As has been foreshadowed, there will be
some amendments, but I would like to move clauses 1 and 2.

Thank you. Are there any Members
who have any objections to moving clauses 1 and 2?
There are none. Please proceed.
Hon. Michael J. Scott: So, clause 1 is the citation
and it contains the first amendment in that we wish to
amend the citation describing the Bill as the Decrim inalisation of Cannabis Act to . . . and there are some amendments which I think I would like to make sure
that the House now has.
Madam Chairman, these amendments are the
work of the Honourable and Learned Member, Mr.
Pettingill, and as they comprehensively deal with all of
the amendments from 1 through7, I am going to ask the Honourable and Learned Member, Mr. Pettingill, if
he would take up his amendments to the Bill.
Hon. E. David Burt: You have to go clause by clause.