The SpeakerThe SpeakerThe Minutes for the 21st of November have been deferred. MESSAGES FROM THE GOVERNOR
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThere are none. ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE SPEAKER OR MEM BER PRESIDING APOLOGIES
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYes. I would like to announce that MPs Walton Brown, Diallo N. Rabain, and Nandi Outerbridge are absent today. Also, I would like to announce that yesterday I had meetings with the Opposition and the Gover nment Leaders, and as a result of that, the Bermuda Airport Authority Act will …
Yes. I would like to announce that MPs Walton Brown, Diallo N. Rabain, and Nandi Outerbridge are absent today. Also, I would like to announce that yesterday I had meetings with the Opposition and the Gover nment Leaders, and as a result of that, the Bermuda Airport Authority Act will not be debated today. It will be moved on to the next meeting so that Members would have opportunity to further go over the material that has been shared up to this point.
MESSAGES FROM THE SENATE
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThere are none. PAPERS AND OTHER COMMUNICATIONS TO THE HOUSE
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThe Chair will recognise the Minister of Finance. INSURANCE ACCOUNTS AMENDMENT REGULATIONS 2016 Hon. E. T. (Bob) Richards: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to attach and submit for the consideration of the Honourable House of Assembly the Insurance Accounts Amendment Regulations 2016.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Minister. Minister, Dr. Gibbons, you have the floor. CASINO GAMING (CASINO FEES ) REGULATIONS 2016
The Hon. Dr. E. Grant GibbonsGood morning, Mr. Speaker. I have the honour to attach and submit for the consideration of the Honourable House of Assembly the Casino Gaming (Casino Fees) Regulations 2016. And I have another one .
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYes, Minister. You have a second one, Minister. CASINO GAMING (GENERAL RESERVE AND CASINO TAXES) REGULATIONS 2016
The Hon. Dr. E. Grant GibbonsThank you, Mr. Speaker. I have the honour to attach and submit for the consideration of the Honourable House of Assembly the Casino Gaming (General Reserve and Casino Taxes) Regulations 2016. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerRight. Thank you, Minister. The Chair will now recognise the Minister, the Learned Attorney General , T. G. Moniz. ANTI -MONEY LAUNDERING/ANTI -TERRORIST FINANCING GUIDANCE NOTES FOR DEALERS IN HIGH VALUE GOODS IN BERMUDA Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: I am obliged, Mr. Speaker. I have the honour to attach and …
Right. Thank you, Minister. The Chair will now recognise the Minister, the Learned Attorney General , T. G. Moniz.
ANTI -MONEY LAUNDERING/ANTI -TERRORIST FINANCING GUIDANCE NOTES FOR DEALERS IN HIGH VALUE GOODS IN BERMUDA
Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: I am obliged, Mr. Speaker. I have the honour to attach and submit for the information of the Honourable House of Assem bly the Anti-Money Laundering/Anti -Terrorist Financing Gui dance Notes for Dealers in High Value Goods in Bermuda. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAll right. Thank you. Thank you, Mini ster. PETITIONS
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThere are none. 272 25 November 2016 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly STATEMENTS BY MINISTERS AND JUNIOR MINISTERS
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThe Chair will now recognise the Learned Member, the Attorney General. ANTI -MONEY LAUNDERING/ANTI -TERRORIST F INANCING (AML/ATF) SUPERVISION OF THE HIGH VALUE DEALERS SECTORS—UPDATE Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to update this Honourable House on the progress that is being made by the Financial …
The Chair will now recognise the Learned Member, the Attorney General.
ANTI -MONEY LAUNDERING/ANTI -TERRORIST F INANCING (AML/ATF) SUPERVISION OF THE HIGH VALUE DEALERS SECTORS—UPDATE
Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to update this Honourable House on the progress that is being made by the Financial Intell igence Agency [FIA] , in particular, and the National Anti-Money Laundering Committee [NAMLC] in ge neral, in updating Bermuda’s Anti-Money Laundering/Anti -Terrorist [AML/ATF] Financing framework , to include within its scope the supervision of dealers of high value goods. This effort is part of Bermuda’s continuing commitment to enhance Bermuda’s compl iance with the requirements set out in international standards established by the Financial Action Task Force [FATF] . Mr. Speaker, in July this year, the Legislature enacted amendments to Bermuda’s AML/ATF legisl ation amongst which were provisions to bring in scope dealers in high value goods and empowering the FIA to undertake the supervision of businesses which make u p that group. These legislative provisions were intended to come into effect on the 1 st of December 2016, but I have been asked to hold off, so there can be slightly more consultation, until the 1st of January 2017. Dealers in high value goods are defined in the legislation to include jewellery dealers; car, boat and motorcycle dealers; precious metal and stone dealers; antique dealers; and auctioneers. Mr. Speaker, the supervisory framework for these sectors will be unique. Businesses will have the opport unity to organise their operations in a way that will obviate the need for them to be registered and be subject to supervision by the FIA. This is because the supervisory regime will only be focused on those businesses that wish to be able to accept cash pa yments totalling $7,500 or more, or the equivalent, in any other currency for a single transaction or a series of related transactions. Therefore, Mr. Speaker, businesses that make a commitment to exclude from their operations these high- risk cash transactions at or above that threshold will be excluded from the registration r equirements and will only occasionally be required to demonstrate that they continue to adhere to that commitment. For those businesses that do wish to undertake cash transactions above the threshold, they will be required to register with the FIA, and therefore will be subject to the applicable requirements in the AML/ATF law. These specify the preventive controls that must be implemented by those entities in order to reduce their ri sk of being abused for money laundering and terrorist financing. Mr. Speaker, I would therefore like to advise that, since the amendments were enacted, the FIA has carried out a number of administrative and ou treach activities to prepare themselves and the rel evant sectors for the commencement of the supervisory framework. To that end, they have prepared draft guidance notes, which they circulated to the sectors on the 26 th of August 2016, for its consultation. T he consultation period lasted until the 30th of September. During that time, the FIA also conducted training ses-sions with the dealers in high value goods, as well as had outreach with the banking sector to update them on this development. Mr. Speaker, feedback provided to the FIA by industry and b y the membership of NAMLC was taken into account in updating the draft guidance notes. The final draft was submitted to me for my review and approval. I have confirmed in writing my approval of these guidance notes and have requested that they be published in the official Gazette and an electronic copy be made available on the website of the FIA. Mr. Speaker, although the provisions of the legislation will commence on 1 st of December 2016, the Financial Intelligence Agency will, with my a pproval, commence registration on the 2nd of January 2017. Going forward, the FIA will continue their ou treach and training sessions with these sectors to e nhance their understanding of the regime and to em-power them with the information necessary to facilitate compliance w ith the requirements. Mr. Speaker, I have provided a copy of the guidance notes to the Clerk for the benefit of the Ho nourable Members and the public. With that, Mr. Speaker, I thank you for your indulgence.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Thank you, Minister. REPORTS OF COMMITTEES
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThere are none. QUESTION PERIOD
The SpeakerThe SpeakerWe have written responses for Mr. Roban from the Premier. Do we have those? Yes, Mr. Roban should have those. Okay, thank you. QUESTIONS: CCTV SECURITY CAMERAS 1) Would the Honourable Premier please provide this Honourable House with the total number of CCTV Security Cameras that have been installed island- …
We have written responses for Mr. Roban from the Premier. Do we have those? Yes, Mr. Roban should have those. Okay, thank you.
QUESTIONS: CCTV SECURITY CAMERAS
1) Would the Honourable Premier please provide this Honourable House with the total number of CCTV Security Cameras that have been installed island- wide under the contract awarded to BAS -Serco as of October 31, 2016?
Bermuda House of Assembly 2) Would the Honourable Premier please provide this Ho nourable House with i nformation on the expenditure related to the contract awarded to BAS -Serco and any specific subcontractors related to the operation, maintenance and repair of the CCTV system as of October 31, 2016? 3) Would the Honourable Premier please provide this Honourable House with the list of all legal fees paid to attorneys or advisors related to the CCTV operation up to October 31, 2016?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerWe also have written responses for Mr. Rabain from the Minister, Patricia Gordon- Pamplin; we ha ve them. QUESTIONS: DEPARTMENT OF WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT 1) Would the Honourable Minister please i nform this Honourable House what categ ories of employment have the Government and the Department of Workforce Development identified as …
We also have written responses for Mr. Rabain from the Minister, Patricia Gordon- Pamplin; we ha ve them.
QUESTIONS: DEPARTMENT OF WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT
1) Would the Honourable Minister please i nform this Honourable House what categ ories of employment have the Government and the Department of Workforce Development identified as needed during the construction phases of the proposed New Airport Development, the proposed Hotel in St. Georges Development and the Pr oposed Hotel at Morgan’s Point Development and how many unemployed people currently registered at the Department of Workforce Development f all within these categories?
2) Would the Honourable Minister please i nform this Honourable House what training programs have been identified by the Government and the Department of Wor kforce Development to train Bermudians in preparation for work during the constru ction and post -construction operations phase of the proposed New Airport D evelopment; the proposed Hotel in St. Georges Development and the Proposed Hotel at Morgan’s Point Development?
3) Would the Honourable Minister please i nform this Honourable House how many work permits have been issued and how many persons are registered as une mployed with the Department of Workforce Development in the following categories for the years 2013, 2014, 2015 and b etween January 1, 2016 to Present: a) Masons b) Electricians c) Plumbers d) Carpenters e) Tilers f) Dry -Wallers g) Welders h) Waiters i) Landscape Gardeners
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAnd the Chair will now recognise the Honourable Member from constituency 5, MP D. V. Burgess. Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: Thank you, and good morning, Mr. Speaker, and the House.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerGood morning. QUESTION 1: SWING BRIDGE IN ST. GEORGE’S PARISH Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: Mr. Speaker, will the Honourable Minister of Works and Engineering please inform this Honourable House as to what is the total cost to strengthen and fix the swing bridge in St. George's Parish?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMinister. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Thank you, and good morning, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerGood morning. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: In answer to that question, the swing bridge strengthening work entails repairs to the central swing span at this present time. The work has a cost of $607,000. Now, there is some other work that we will be putting out to tender on Nove …
Good morning. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: In answer to that question, the swing bridge strengthening work entails repairs to the central swing span at this present time. The work has a cost of $607,000. Now, there is some other work that we will be putting out to tender on Nove mber 28, 2016. But i t would not be appropriate for me to give those figures , because it is going out to tender at this time. But at present, we are looking at just the swing span of the bridge, $607,000.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Yes, MP Burgess. Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr. : Yes, supplementary,
Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerYes. Carry on. SUPPLEMENTARIES Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: As I understand it, in repairing the bridge there are some metal plates to be welded underneath. How will that affect the motor c apacity that drives that bridge? Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The work that we …
Yes. Carry on.
SUPPLEMENTARIES
Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: As I understand it, in repairing the bridge there are some metal plates to be welded underneath. How will that affect the motor c apacity that drives that bridge?
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The work that we are looking to complete by December will restore the two- lane traffic, meaning 274 25 November 2016 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly that the lights that you see there now will be removed. The challenge, of course, is that we still have to do the approach spans. And that work will not go out to te nder until March sometime. So it means that we will have two- lane traffic going back and forth, hopefully without any hiccups, by the end of this December. The weight restrictions for the larger vehicles —for i nstance, the fuel trucks —will remain in place until we get the approach spans fixed, which will go out in this March. So, two -lane traffic; no traffic lights; the weight restrictions stay as they are; and when we do the ap-proach spans, then we will restore all traffic going over. Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: Yes. Mr. Speaker, I do not think I was clear. I want to know the lifespan of the motors that drive that bridge, because you are putting actual weight. That is what I wou ld like to know, yes.
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes. We are not talking about the actual m otor mechanism at this point in time. There is a separate contract that will go out to do that. You are talking about the part that allows the bridge to actually swing open. At present, what we are concerned about is actually the swing span, meaning the actual part that does swing, not the motor mechanism itself. That is the part that is rusted out. That is the part [with problems, the reason] why we have placed the restrictions in play, not the motor that drives the actual opening of the bridge. So, the $607,000 is to replace the steelwork underneath that is, in some places, completely eroded away. Then after we do that work we will look at t he span approaches, we will then look at the hydraulics and the electrical work involved in actually allowing the bridge to swing open. As you know, we have done some testing already. And there is more testing to be done to determine the final cost, or final works, that need to be done to ensure that the bridge can swing.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. MP Burgess. Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: Yes. Another suppl ementary.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYes. Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: Once you finish the span, or start it, will there be any delay when you are doing that work? Because I see that it goes out to tender on Monday. And it is supposed to be completed by March of 2017. Any delays [expected …
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMinister. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Certainly with this work, there are no anticipated delays. But, you know, som etimes stuff happens. But no anticipated delays.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. MP Burgess. Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: Second question, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYes. QUESTION 2: SWING BRIDGE IN ST. GEORGE’S PARISH Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: Will the Honourable Minister please inform this Honourable House when the bridge will be fully operational? Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: I guess it is qua lifying what “fully operational” . . . I am assuming that …
Yes.
QUESTION 2: SWING BRIDGE IN ST. GEORGE’S PARISH
Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: Will the Honourable Minister please inform this Honourable House when the bridge will be fully operational?
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: I guess it is qua lifying what “fully operational” . . . I am assuming that the Honourable Member is speaking to the fact that not only will the approach spans, but the actual span itself will be repaired [so that] structurally it will be able to handle the weight restricti ons that are in place right now, but also the swing. When you say “fully ,” is that what you mean? Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: Yes. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Yes. As of March, again I will say, I will repeat just that part to lead into the latter part. W e will, by March, I am hoping , have completed it so that the lights will be removed, and there are no weight restrictions. The next part after that will be, how do we get the bridge actually swinging itself? And that is what we are working on now with our engineers and a consultant to get a spec for that. I cannot give that determination as of yet, because once we find out the cost of that, an estimated cost of actually getting the motors repaired, and the hydraulics and the electrical all repaired, then I think what we need to do is do an assessment of whether or not we should do these works or actually just put in a new bridge. And that is what our guys are looking at right now, the cost -effectiveness of repairing as [compared] to jus t replacing the whole bridge itself. But that information will be forthcoming.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMP Burgess. Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: Supplementary.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYes. SUPPLEMENTARY Bermuda House of Assembly Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: With the work that is anticipated to take place down there, what would be the longevi ty of that bridge once we have finished?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMinister. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Actually, that is a good question. I am glad you asked that question. With just the structural part, the work being done by March, we will have at least a five- , maybe six-year time- span before we have to do …
Minister. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Actually, that is a good question. I am glad you asked that question. With just the structural part, the work being done by March, we will have at least a five- , maybe six-year time- span before we have to do any other works on the bridge, which is why we are saying, Okay. Well, maybe we need to start looking at, by 2017, doing an analysis of actually replacing the whole bridge itself. But the work that we are doing now will at least give us five years. Understanding that the part that we are repai ring will be great, but there are other parts that are eroding as we go along in time.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Yes. The Leader of the Opposition, you have a supplementary? Hon. E. David Burt: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I do have a supplementary.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAll right. SUPPLEMENTARIES Hon. E. David Burt: Because I note t hat in the Honourable Minister’s answer, he said that to have the bridges fully operational will require mechanical and electrical repairs that are estimated at $3.3 million, and the decision to make these repairs will be weighed against the …
All right.
SUPPLEMENTARIES
Hon. E. David Burt: Because I note t hat in the Honourable Minister’s answer, he said that to have the bridges fully operational will require mechanical and electrical repairs that are estimated at $3.3 million, and the decision to make these repairs will be weighed against the cost of a new bridge. The question that I would have, Mr. Speaker, is that in the analysis that was done to estimate the cost of repairing that section at $3.3 million, were there any preliminary figures done on the cost to r eplace the bridge in its entirety?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerMinister. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Yes. Thank you. I must say I did speak to the Honourable Member who initially gave the questions. I was a bit reluctant to have that $3.3 million out there. I had mentioned it to my office in the department bec ause we still have …
Minister. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Yes. Thank you. I must say I did speak to the Honourable Member who initially gave the questions. I was a bit reluctant to have that $3.3 million out there. I had mentioned it to my office in the department bec ause we still have to go out to tender. And that may compromise the tender process. However, unfortunately, the Opposition Leader was not aware of that conversation earlier. But in answer to the question, we have always looked at what it would cost to replace. The challenge we have is that we needed to do immediate work on the bridge because it was compromised, which is why we had to go in and to do remedial work now. So yes, we have always been looking at, and I have always said in public —I have had town hall meetings, especially in St. George's —speaking to the fact that I thought that we need is to go with a new bridge com-pletely. This bridge is very, very, very old. And conti nuing to find people who can maintain it and repair it is becoming a challenge. It is outdated. But that is not to say that we may not go with keeping it. But yes, preliminarily, we did look at some costs. And we are continuing to do that.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAll right. Thank you. Yes, MP Burt again. Hon. E. David Burt: Supplementary, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYes, yes. Hon. E. David Burt: And I would apologise to the Minister, because I was not aware of that figure. And that was not in any way, shape or form intentional. But the question that I ask, and understanding the Minister has given his statement, because knowing that business …
Yes, yes.
Hon. E. David Burt: And I would apologise to the Minister, because I was not aware of that figure. And that was not in any way, shape or form intentional. But the question that I ask, and understanding the Minister has given his statement, because knowing that business cases need to be brought forward when comparing what you are going to do, did the Minister or has the Minister and/or the Government come up with any preliminary estimates, and if you are able to share, about how much it would be to r eplace the bridge?
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: We are talking about a new bridge? Hon. E. David Burt: Yes.
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Originally, there were costs in the range of $30 million that were out there for a new bridge. But again, these are preliminary numbers. The problem, or the challenge, with preliminary numbers is they are preliminary numbers. We are still doing studies. In fact, our new director, chief engineer, whom we have has been looking at other alternatives as well. There are [alternatives], depending on the kind of bridge we put back. I mean, if we put a static bridge back, obviously it will cost less. Just filling it [in] with concrete, and it is what it is. So we have got many options out t here. The estimates have been around $20 to $30 million, and could be higher.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAny other questions? All right. Thank you. Thank you, Honourable Members. No one came for any questions with reference to the Attorney General’s Statement, so tha t will co nclude the Question Period. 276 25 November 2016 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly CONGRATULATORY AND/OR OBITUARY SPEECHES
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThe Chair will recognise the Honour able Member from constituency 25, the Learned Member, MP Mark Pettingill.
Mr. Mark J. PettingillThank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to ask condolences be send to the family of Liz Scott, Liz “D ookie ", who is the former wife of my very good friend, Milton Scott, who is a former Senator. It looks like the whole House wants to be involved in …
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to ask condolences be send to the family of Liz Scott, Liz “D ookie ", who is the former wife of my very good friend, Milton Scott, who is a former Senator. It looks like the whole House wants to be involved in that. I appreciate that. Milton a nd I, and his wife and my wife, go back a number of years. Milton and I became fast friends during our time in the Senate. And shortly after that, I met his wife. And, in fact, the first double date that my wife and I ever went on as a dating couple was wi th Milton and Liz.
[Inaudible interjection]
Mr. Mark J. PettingillIt is the only way, I think, they helped a little bit maybe. But she was a tremendous lady, originally from Trinidad, and unfortunately was stricken with cancer four years ago and had engaged in a heartfelt and courageous battle over the last four years. On Tuesday, Mr. Speaker, I …
It is the only way, I think, they helped a little bit maybe. But she was a tremendous lady, originally from Trinidad, and unfortunately was stricken with cancer four years ago and had engaged in a heartfelt and courageous battle over the last four years. On Tuesday, Mr. Speaker, I was assisting in helping an air ambulance out of Boston to try and get Liz back to Trinidad, where she wished to go, and Milton wished for that to happen. Unf ortunately, it was not to be, and she passed away in Boston, peacefully, that evening. I spoke to him yesterday. Obviously, it is a very, very difficult time , to lose a young wife whom you have been with for many years and was very close to. So I ask that we all keep them in our thoughts and our prayers. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you very much, Honourable Member. The Chair will now recognise the Honourable Minister of Education, Minister Scott. Hon. R. Wayne Scott: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to offer congratulations to CedarBridge Academy , and to some of the graduates, for a fall commencement ceremony that I was …
Thank you very much, Honourable Member. The Chair will now recognise the Honourable Minister of Education, Minister Scott. Hon. R. Wayne Scott: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to offer congratulations to CedarBridge Academy , and to some of the graduates, for a fall commencement ceremony that I was fortunate enough to attend a few weeks ago. Mr. Speaker, C edarBridge is one of the only schools that does conduct a fall commencement for students who had some additional requirements to fulfil before they graduated in June, and I have a lot of time for kids who just stick to it and get this done. So, I would like to offer congrat ulations to them. On a sadder note, Mr. Speaker, I would like to be associated with those remarks for Milton who, of course, as you know, is a first cousin of mine. And I just offer the family sincere condolences. Also, for the family of Patrick Cannonier. Ca nnonier was someone whom I knew all my life when I was growing up in the Warwick area. I am still in the Warwick area. And I associate Minister Cole Simons for that, as well as Minister Atherden and the whole House on this side, from what I can see. I also would like to offer condolences to the family of my PA, Darlene Harley who, of course, lost her father in August, a service that I attended as well. And, Mr. Speaker, before I sit down, I would just like to thank the Member for , Monday, the offering of condolences for my father, who, of course, was buried yesterday morning. And everything I am, Mr. Speaker, I owe it to him. Thank you.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Thank you, Honourable Member. The Chair will now recognise the Honourable Member, the Deputy Leader of the Opposition, MP Roban. You have the floor.
Mr. Walter H. RobanThank you, Mr. Speaker. It would be remiss for us, certainly on this side if we did not at least get up and associate ourselves with the condolences that were offered to the family of Mrs. Elizabeth D ookie- Scott, wife of former Senate Leader, Minister of Education, Milton Scott. …
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It would be remiss for us, certainly on this side if we did not at least get up and associate ourselves with the condolences that were offered to the family of Mrs. Elizabeth D ookie- Scott, wife of former Senate Leader, Minister of Education, Milton Scott. I knew both. Obviously , knowing Milton, I would know his wife. And I have known both of them for quite some time. Most of us on this side would have known Milton for decades with his involvement not only as a Parli amentarian, which was at the latter part of his life, but as a trade unionist and teacher. So, persons such as our Shadow Minister of Education would like to be associated since the Shadow Minister would have been a colleague of hers for many years in the educ ation system. But Liz was also a teac her. She was a beaut iful example of what Trinidad has to offer, who found herself here in Bermuda. Beautiful lady, beautiful personality, greeted us all with joy and love whenever she saw you. And I myself not only had connections with her, but also with h er family in Trinidad as well. So, we reach out and send our love and condolences from this House and this side to her family, and Mi lton’s family, in Trinidad. So, since he is a former Member of the Legislature, I think this extra attention should be give n to our former colleague, and that ev eryone in this House, as it has been offered by the Honourable Member for constituency 25, that we offer support and love to the family of the Scott’s , who seem to have had a double situation with members of their fami ly at this time. So extra love, attention and support should be given to all the Scott family at this time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you very much, Honourable Member. Bermuda House of Assembly Would any other Honourable Member care to speak? There are none. MATTERS OF PRIVILEGE
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThere are none. PERSONAL EXPLANATIONS
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThere are none. NOTICE OF MOTIONS FOR THE ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE ON MATTERS OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThere are none. INTRODUCTION OF BILLS GOVERNMENT BILLS
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThe Chair will recognise the Minister, Dr. Gibbons. FIRST READINGS AMERICA’S CUP AMENDMENT (NO. 2) ACT 2016
The Hon. Dr. E. Grant GibbonsThank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to introduce for the first reading the America’s Cup Amendment (No. 2) Act 2016.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Thank you, Minister. The Chair will now recognise the Minister Jeanne Atherden. Hon. Jeanne J. Atherden: Good morning, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerGood morning. SUMMARY OFFENCES AMENDMENT ACT 2016 Hon. Jeanne J. Atherden: I am introducing the following Bill for its first reading so that it may be placed on the Order Paper for the next day of meeting: Summary Offences Amendment Act 2016.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Thank you, Minister. I think you have a second one? BERMUDA HOSPITALS BOARD AMENDMENT ACT 2016 Hon. Jeanne J. Atherden: I do, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am introducing the following Bill for its first reading so that it may be placed on the Order Paper for the …
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, thank you, Minister. The Chair will now recognise the Minister for Works. LAND TITLE REGISTRAR (RECORDING OF DO CUMENTS) ACT 2016 Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am introducing the following Bill for its first reading so that it may be placed on the Order …
Thank you, thank you, Minister. The Chair will now recognise the Minister for Works.
LAND TITLE REGISTRAR (RECORDING OF DO CUMENTS) ACT 2016
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am introducing the following Bill for its first reading so that it may be placed on the Order Paper for the next meeting: Land Title Registrar (Recording of Documents) Act 2016.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Minister. OPPOSITION BILLS
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThere are none. PRIVATE MEMBERS’ BILLS
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThere are none. NOTICES OF MOTIONS
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThere are none. ORDERS OF THE DAY
The SpeakerThe SpeakerI am told that Order No. 1 is carried over. So we move to Order No. 2, which is the M otor Car Amendment (No. 2) Act 2016, in the name of the Minister of Economic Development, Dr. Gibbons. Minister of Economic Development, you have the floor.
The Hon. Dr. E. Grant GibbonsThank you, Mr. Speaker. I move that the Bill entitled the Motor Car Amendment (No. 2) Act 2016 be now read the second time.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAny objections to that? Carry on, please, Minister. BILL SECOND READING MOTOR CAR AMENDMENT (NO. 2) ACT 2016 278 25 November 2016 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly The Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Bill before this Honourable House seeks to amend …
Any objections to that? Carry on, please, Minister.
BILL
SECOND READING
MOTOR CAR AMENDMENT (NO. 2) ACT 2016
278 25 November 2016 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly The Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Bill before this Honourable House seeks to amend the Motor Car Act 1951 (the principal Act). The Bill makes provisions for a “minicar livery” scheme including the types of minicars that are available for rental, the specifications of and the l icence duty for those “minicars,” the licence fee appl icable for the operation of a minicar livery and for con-nected purposes. Mr. Speaker, the proposed amendments to the Motor Car Act 1951 speak to minicars, which are motor cars owned by, and ordinarily available for hire from, a minicar livery, which means a person or body of persons by whom minicars are let on hire for use by other persons. These minicars are proposed for use as rental vehicles in Bermuda. These minicars will not exceed 150 cc [cubic centimetre] in engine capacity, 20 horsepower or 15 kilowatts. They will not exceed 115 inches in length or 60 inches in width overall, and will have a maximum of two seats. There have been ongoing discussions, Mr. Speaker, for many years about increasing the avail ability of smaller and safer motor vehicles for visitors in Bermuda. With this legislation, the Ministry of Tourism, Transport and Municipalities is taking a balanced approach which will provide safer transportation options for our visitors, but still includ es many restrictions on the vehicles that can be used for rental. The Ministry recognises that these amendments may increase competition for the livery cycle business as visitors will now have a choice between a two-wheeled livery cycle and a livery minic ar with three or four wheels. However, it also provides an opportunity for the existing rental companies to expand their current offerings and address the safety concerns that many visitors express when renting a livery cycle. Mr. Speaker, this Bill will provide new opportunities for Bermudian entrepreneurs to participate in the tourism industry and fill a gap in the market. In our heyday, we had in excess of 6,000 livery cycles on the road—today that number has dwindled to approx imately 2,000. With touris m numbers on the rise, Bermuda will become more competitive with other visitor destinations that offer broader transportation options to their guests. Mr. Speaker, the Ministry responsible for Transport has currently listed about 10 makes of vehi-cles whic h they feel would be appropriate for rental in Bermuda. All of them are smaller than a private A - class car. And, as specified in the Bill, the engine size and horsepower of the vehicles means that they will be unable to take more than two passengers and wi ll have little or no capacity to carry luggage. Mr. Speaker, whilst these vehicles are called “minicars,” some of those under consideration are commonly referred to as quadricycles and some are three- wheeled vehicles. Mr. Speaker, the Bill specifies that the design or build of the vehicles in the minicar livery scheme will be regulated and controlled so as to be conducive to road safety in Bermuda and will preserve, as far as possible, the amenities of Bermuda. Renters will have to go through training and testing at the minicar livery in order to be deemed suitable to drive in Bermuda. They will also be advised of their liability for any offences. Mr. Speaker, the Bill provides that restrictions will be placed on what a potential minicar livery bus iness sh ould look like and how it should operate. For example, for an individual to establish a minicar bus iness, that person must have an annual licence to op-erate a minicar livery, which can be obtained on wri tten application to the Minister, and the fee is $500 . Mr. Speaker, it will be an offence to operate a livery without a licence. A licence will expire one calendar year after the date of issue. This means that TCD [Transport Control Department] inspectors will examine a proposed livery site to certify the c onditions of their operation and their equipment before recommending to the Minister the granting of a licence. Mr. Speaker, additional provisions listed in the Bill specify that the Minister may grant or refuse a l icence to operate a livery subject to an y terms and conditions deemed appropriate, and that the Minister may at any time vary the conditions attached to a l icence. In considering a licence application, the Mini ster will take into account the suitability of the livery premises, the suitability of the equipment in such premises, and the qualifications of the staff proposed to be employed in the operation of the livery. The Minister will have the power to revoke a licence if it appears that there has been a material change in the suitability of the premises, equipment, or staff since the inception of the licence; or if the l icencee has not complied with any of the conditions attached to their licence. A person who contravenes any provision of the licence commits an offence and will be liable on summary conviction to a fine of $4,200, or to impri sonment for three months, or both. In the case of a continuing offence, a fine of $500 may be applied for each day the offence continues. Each minicar within a livery will be subject to an annual licensing f ee of $167.90. Mr. Speaker, no minicar will be permitted to be rented to a person under the age of 18 years, or a person who does not hold a recognised and valid driver’s licence which is in force and not expired, sus-pended, or revoked. Mr. Speaker, the Ministry of Transport consulted the Bermuda Taxi Owners Association, reco gnised taxi dispatching companies, and the minibus associations, as well as various other stakeholders, to ensure a full understanding of the types of vehicles that may be licensed pr ior to the Act and regulations being brought into operation.
Bermuda House of Assembly Mr. Speaker, we cannot afford to rest on our laurels. Bermuda may be “another world,” but Honourable Members will know that we have strong competition from other tourism destinations, who offer attractive experiences and a wider range of safe transport options. To keep our competitive edge, we must offer a compelling experience and the kind of amenities and services that discerning visitors expect to have in a world- class destination. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAll right. Thank you, Honourable Mini ster. The Chair will now recognise the Honourable Member from constituency 24, MP Lawrence Scott, the Shadow Transport Minister.
Mr. W. Lawrence ScottThank you, Mr. Speaker. And I would like to thank the Minister for sharing his brief with me this morning. But when it comes to the rental cars, Mr. Speaker, I am quickly reminded of the research that I did on how regular cars were introduced here in Bermuda. And …
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And I would like to thank the Minister for sharing his brief with me this morning. But when it comes to the rental cars, Mr. Speaker, I am quickly reminded of the research that I did on how regular cars were introduced here in Bermuda. And just for those who are not aware, [when] regular cars were introduced in Bermuda, at first it was fought against. The then- sitting House of Parli ament was not in favour of it. They were like, Oh, no, we can’t have it. The horse- and-carriage is the way that we go. That is what is unique to Bermuda, and so on and so forth. But what was going on, as history would show, what was going on behind the scenes is that they were trying to figure out who gets what dealer-ship. Who gets what distribution? And I do not know those cars back in the day, but, who would get the Mitsubishi dealership? Who would get the Daihatsu dealership? And once that was decided and once they had divided up the automotive market amongst themselves, that is when they introduced cars. And a week or so after, the cars were allowed through Parliament. Then they were here on our shores. And back then, Mr. Speaker, we did not have any Amazon next -day shipping or anything like that. So you know that the decision had been made well in adv ance for the cars to show up so quickly. And ever since those days, Mr. Speaker, what has happened is that we have just had more and more and more vehicles put on our roads. So right now, my research shows that we have approximately 49,000 registered vehi cles, and I think those are pr ivate vehicles, that are on our roads. So, if we were to then take every vehicle that is registered on our road, and I am talking more so private vehicles right now, and put them on our road and put them bumper to bumper, we w ould have only three miles of road that would be uncovered. And, Mr. Speaker, keep in mind that we have 300- plus miles of road in our country. So now we are taking those 49,000 cars. And the math that I calculated did not include your buses, your tractor trailers, commercial vehicles, or public service vehicles, Mr. Speaker. That is just my under-standing of the number of private vehicles that are registered. So now we are going to take the rental cars, and, according to this Bill, there is no limit to how many rental cars an individual can bring in. And when I say “an individual” right now, Mr. Speaker, I am actually referring to an individual livery —rental car dealership. (I am just going to call them rental car dealerships for now . But they are known as “ liveries .”) So with that, Mr. Speaker, I believe, we believe on this side that this Bill is actually the thin side of the wedge for allowing full -sized rental cars, Mr. Speaker. Because since it was originally introduced, the sizes and the specs have alr eady been changed, Mr. Speaker. So it is not just electric cars anymore, as it was in the original Bill. It is not just four -wheeled electric cars. They have got gas -powered cars. You have got three- wheeled cars, just like the Minister said in his brief. S o, Mr. Speaker, the thing is that what also was mentioned in the brief was the fact that, how do we know that visitors are able to handle driving on the correct side of the road, Mr. Speaker? How do we know that? Because I know you have seen it; you have been around longer than I have, so I am sure you have seen it.
[Laughter]
Mr. W. Lawrence ScottI know that you have seen times when . . . and I actually saw it, I think, yeste rday, driving home. There was a visitor on a rental bike coming out of the Lindo’s on Middle Road, coming out of that gate. And that visitor came to the entrance …
I know that you have seen times when . . . and I actually saw it, I think, yeste rday, driving home. There was a visitor on a rental bike coming out of the Lindo’s on Middle Road, coming out of that gate. And that visitor came to the entrance of the gate, looked to the left and then proceeded out and pulled out right in front of me. If I had not been doing the speed limit, Mr. Speaker, I would have hit him.
[Inaudible interjection]
Mr. W. Lawrence ScottYes, I am a good driver. I think that is probably why the Party Leader kept me as Shadow Minister of Transport. So, Mr. Speaker, the thing is, how do we know that they will be able to han-dle driving on the cor rect side of the road? I know …
Yes, I am a good driver. I think that is probably why the Party Leader kept me as Shadow Minister of Transport. So, Mr. Speaker, the thing is, how do we know that they will be able to han-dle driving on the cor rect side of the road? I know that they are going to have tests and examinations, and I will bring up my concerns with that when we go to Committee. But moving on to the other side of things and the side that I would not like to stifle, but in the interest of doing my job and taking my responsibility very ser iously, when it comes to entrepreneurship, and they talk about applying for licences, how are the licences granted? What are the stipulations? What are the regulations that are behind the granting of a licence? Is it just that Lawrence Scott presents a licence, and Wayne Scott presents an application for a licence? And because the Minister likes Wayne Scott more 280 25 November 2016 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly than Lawrence Scott, Wayne Scott gets the licence, Mr. Speaker?
Mr. W. Lawrence ScottAnd then, you know, so what does it take to be approved? What is exactly entailed in the approval process? That is a concern of ours on this side. Because we have seen . . .
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAnd you should better get into that more when you get into Committee, as well.
Mr. W. Lawrence ScottSo, Mr. Speaker, the fact that this is an introduction, [the Minister] even mentioned it in his brief that this is an introduction to a new industry, it is an introduction of a new niche market, at best. What are the regulations that are going to be governing this niche …
So, Mr. Speaker, the fact that this is an introduction, [the Minister] even mentioned it in his brief that this is an introduction to a new industry, it is an introduction of a new niche market, at best. What are the regulations that are going to be governing this niche market? What are the regulations that are going to be outlining this new industry, Mr. Speaker? When we talk about a new industry, we cannot help but think about the taxi drivers for whom this is going to create competition, Mr. Speaker. I understand that the Minister mentioned that there were stakeholder meetings and that they had met with the individual stakeholders. And he actually mentioned the BTOA [Bermuda Taxi Owners and O perators Association]. But it is ironic, and it is som ewhat confusing that the Minister says that he consul ted with the BTOA and he got them on board. But I have letters, just like the one that is in my hand right now, Mr. Speaker, from taxi drivers who are against this rental car policy, who are against this rental car initiative. So, Mr. Speaker, if they got the sign- off from the taxi industr y, how am I getting letters from indivi dual taxi owners and drivers, saying that they are not for this and that they were not consulted? So, that is something that we would want them to address and to basically clarify as to who was consulted and what was said. Because, Mr. Speaker, as it was reported in the local media not too long ago, it was referred to (as the way the Minister went about consultation) as poli tical smoke and mirrors, or a political sleight of hand. And that was in contrast or in reference to the fact that it was reported that the Minister had promised that if the taxi drivers signed on to this, if the taxi drivers agreed to this, that he would allow them to bring in second- hand cars and use them as taxis. But, Mr. Speaker, my understandi ng is that this can be done already. Mr. Speaker, the regulations, as it stands, stops you and me from bringing in a second- hand car and trying to license it as a private vehicle unless it meets certain stipulations —less than six months old, I am the first owner, and so on. But if I am a taxi owner or taxi operator, or if I am bringing in a second- hand car . . . because what normally happens is that every year, every two years, the rental car industry in the United States, they sell off their cars, their rental cars to get new cars, so they do not have to worry about maintenance and those type of things. And what happens is that that has cr eated a market for a lot of second- hand vehicles. A lot of people in the States will buy these Hertz and Enterprise second- hand cars and use them as their own regular cars. But for us, we cannot do that here, based on the regulations. But what we can do is, if I buy a Hertz car and bring it here, but I am licensing it as a public service vehicle, then that is allowed, Mr. S peaker. That is my understanding as the regulations stand right now. So, if the Minister put that on the table as a compromise (as I will put it, to be polite), if the Minister saw it as a compromise, he did not really compromise anything because they are already able to do that. So, Mr. Speaker, that brings me to the fact that it seems as though, when it comes to visitors and locals, there could be two Bermudas, one where, when it comes to visitors, visitors can do what they want. Visitors can get what the y want. And your l ocals, basically, have to jump through so many different types of hoops to get it. And, Mr. Speaker, what I am meaning to say is that —and I am going to explain a little bit better with some of my research, later. But it just seems as though if you are Bermudian and you want to do something, there is roadblock after roadblock after roadblock. But if you are non- Bermudian and you want to do something under this OBA Go vernment, all you have to do is ask and it will be handed to you, Mr. Speak er, handed to you on a silver platter. And I will just give you three examples: granting of status to non- Bermudians. They just have to ask for it, and the Minister was willing to grant it. We all know the airport deal, that the Minister and this OBA Gover nment is willing to give away the airport just because somebody asked for it.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerHonourable Member, stay away from that because that is on the O rder Paper.
Mr. W. Lawrence ScottOh, okay. Okay. And then, well, Mr. Speaker, the next thing that the Government is going to give away is going to be our beaches, because they are looking at privati sBermuda House of Assembly ing that with entrepreneurs. That was in the media, Mr. Speaker. And so, Mr. Speaker …
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYes, Honourable Member. Hon. N. H. Cole Simons: This gentleman is misleading the House. The Government has no intentions of privatising our beaches.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAll right. Thank you. Thank you, Honourable Member.
Mr. W. Lawrence ScottWell, Mr. Speaker, this same Government promised 2,000 jobs. So I just want to know, how far can we really believe what they say? And if they are not going to privatise our beaches, wh y are they giving certain beaches away to entrepr eneurs? That —
The SpeakerThe SpeakerHonourable Member. Honourable Member. Honourable Member.
Mr. W. Lawrence ScottWell, okay, Mr. Speaker, I digress. I digress, Mr. Speaker. [Inaudible interjections]
Mr. W. L awrence ScottBut the thing is this, then. The thing is that they said in their brief, Mr. Speaker, that they were actually doing this for our — [Inaudible interjections]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerPlease, Honourable Members. [Gavel]
Mr. W. Lawrence ScottThey s aid in their brief, Mr. Speaker, that they were doing this for our tourism product. So it would mean that . . . it is funny that they say that, because when I did some research on a r eport that was done on a survey that was …
They s aid in their brief, Mr. Speaker, that they were doing this for our tourism product. So it would mean that . . . it is funny that they say that, because when I did some research on a r eport that was done on a survey that was done, 47 per cent of visitors surveyed —this is exit surveys done, right? —47 per cent of those who were surveyed, meaning visitors who were here on- Island, visitors whom we had already won their competition, we a lready got them to come to Bermuda, 47 per cent were not at all interested in renting cars, versus 34 per cent who were extremely interested. Okay, Mr. Speaker. So, if we are doing this for visitors, 51 per cent were not interested in driving in Bermuda, Mr. Speaker, versus 39 per cent who thought rental cars would make it easier t o get around. But yet, they say they are doing this for the visitors. But this is what the vis itors are saying. Mr. Speaker, I am glad you asked for more statistics, and I can give you a few more statistics, Mr. Speaker. Twenty -seven per cent —
[Laughter]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerI did? I did? I asked? [Laughter]
Mr. W. Lawrence ScottSo, Mr. Speaker, 27 per cent did not feel comfortable driving in Bermuda, versus 22 per cent who would like to drive in Bermuda. But in the brief that the OBA gave us today, in the brief that the Minister gave, he stated that this was done in the interest …
So, Mr. Speaker, 27 per cent did not feel comfortable driving in Bermuda, versus 22 per cent who would like to drive in Bermuda. But in the brief that the OBA gave us today, in the brief that the Minister gave, he stated that this was done in the interest of making us competitive in the tourism market, Mr. Speaker. But I am just rattling off information that is in a survey that was done and presented and prepared for the Bermuda Tourism Authority. So I am not pulli ng this out of thin air, Mr. Speaker. But then, Mr. Speaker, it went on to say that 59 per cent were moderately to extremely concerned that the introduction of rental cars could change Ber-muda’s unique character. So now, if we are no longer unique, Mr. Speaker, you know . . . it is not like the other islands. They have rental cars. The other islands have casinos. So it is not like we are . . . no, we are looking at doing casinos here as well. So, Mr. Speaker, how are we any different? Now, maybe it is be-cause our price point will be better than the compet ition. No, that is not going to happen, because departure tax is being increased because of a certain pr oject that is going on or wanting to be introduced, Mr. Speaker. So therefore, we have rental cars lik e the other islands. We have casinos like the other islands. And it costs more to get to Bermuda than it does to the other islands, Mr. Speaker. So how could we say that this is going to introduce or improve our attractiveness to tourists? So, Mr. Speaker , going back to what the Ho nourable Member who stood up and called a point of order on me for, that they said they are not going to privatise our beaches –—but yet, so how can we believe them with that if they said that this is for tourists, but the tourist s have said that they do not want it? So either the Government is not in touch with the tourist industry or our tourism product, or they have ulterior motives on trying to get this pushed through. 282 25 November 2016 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly So, Mr. Speaker, now the thing is that this went on to say , this report goes on to say that 52 per cent were moderately to extremely concerned about congestion on our roads. Mr. Speaker, is that not what I just started with? This whole presentation, my whole speech started with my main concern. Our main concern on this side was about congestion, Mr. Speaker. And the Government called me all sorts of names throughout this speech, Mr. Speaker. But yet, the tourists whom they are supposedly doing this for also said that they have issues about congestion. So either it is okay and understandable when the Government does not want to listen to a knowledgeable Shadow Mini ster—I understand that. You know what? My looks can be intimidating sometimes, Mr. Speaker. I know that; I am a Scott.
[Laughter and inaudible interjecti ons]
Mr. W. Lawrence ScottBut, Mr. Speaker, I am more than just a pretty face. Actually, Mr. Speaker, I have done my research, right? And my research concludes — [Inaudible interjections and laughter]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAll right, Honourable Members. Let th e Honourable Member continue his presentation, please.
Mr. W. Lawrence ScottYes. You know, Mr. Speaker, I guess Beyonc é said it best: I woke up like this. [Laughter]
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberThen she goes to put makeup on. What do you do?
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAll rig ht, let us . . . [Gavel]
Mr. W. Lawrence ScottBut, Mr. Speaker, once again, I am glad I could bring some levity to this situation.
Mr. W. Lawrence ScottBut at the same time, Mr. Speaker, this is the fact, that 52 per cent —and I am repeating this —that 52 per cent were moderately to extremely concerned about congestion on our roads, which is the same concern that most of our average Bermudians have when we talk to …
But at the same time, Mr. Speaker, this is the fact, that 52 per cent —and I am repeating this —that 52 per cent were moderately to extremely concerned about congestion on our roads, which is the same concern that most of our average Bermudians have when we talk to them about rental cars. When I am out there on the doorstep in my constituency, talking to my constituents about their issues and their concerns, rental cars comes up, Mr. Speaker, especially with the taxi driver. So therefore, once again, they ha ve said and they are on the record of saying that they are doing this in the interest of our tourists and the tourism product. But yet, the tourists who did an exit survey said that they do not want it. They think it would i mpede our . . . (and let me jus t look and get the right wording.) It could change Bermuda’s unique character, that they were not at all interested, that they were not interested in driving around, that they were not comfortable in driving, that it would add to congestion. And, Mr. Speaker, one of the most telling st atistic in this report that was given to the Bermuda Tourism Authority back in 2015, June of 2015, said that 52 per cent have not and did not plan on renting cars while on vacation in the Caribbean. So, Mr. Speaker, if the vi sitors do not want this, whom are the OBA doing it for? Because, obviously, I have proven that the visitors do not want it. We know that the locals are apprehensive about it, at best. And, Mr. Speaker, I am just going to leave that out there: Whom are they doing it for? But, Mr. Speaker, I am going to change gears (pardon the pun). But I believe that we on this side would not have as many concerns if we could see the regulations, Mr. Speaker. And in talking to my fellow colleagues about this and sharing my concerns [about] it, they made me aware that the regulations do not always accompany Bills, Mr. Speaker. And that is just the way it has always been. Mr. Speaker, I am not happy with that. I do not think that that is the way that it should be done, Mr. Sp eaker. I think that we should actually be here striving to find ways to ensure that when a Bill comes to this House, both sides know, more so the Opposition than the Government, know exactly what is going on and how they plan on impl ementing this. Because this Bill right now, Mr. Speaker, is just a vision. All it is an idea. This is what we would like to do. But yet, we cannot outline how we are go-ing to do it. Mr. Speaker, you know, so once again, as I said, we do not know how . . . they are asking us to . . . and basically what happens, on a regular basis, we are being asked to approve Bills sight unseen, just approve. We are just approving things in principle, theoretically, Mr. Speaker. And I know that none of us here, none of us here, Mr. Speaker, wants to be known as the average Premier, the average Minister, or the average MP. We all want to be known up here as the best MP or the best Premier or the best Minister that ever was. So we continue to do things just the way that they have a lways been done because that is just how it is, without trying to push the envelope, without trying to make a difference and streamline the process, which is the only way we are going to become better lawmakers, Mr. Speaker. And I will not go into the concerns that I hav e, because it is more suited for when we go into Commi ttee. But in Committee, Mr. Speaker, if you listen in— and I know you do— you will see a lot of the concerns
Bermuda House of Assembly can only be answered through regulation and through the sharing of the regulations. So therefor e, had they introduced or had they included the regulations in this Bill right now, Mr. Speaker, I could have gotten up and said, You know what? We agree with it. Fine. Let’s go, and we could have been on to the next thing. But because they do not have the answers to these questions, Mr. Speaker, because they cannot have the answers to these questions until the regulations are i ntroduced or the regulations are put into this Bill, all this Government is doing is just going with the status quo. There is no push to find out how we can do things better. There is no push to find out how we can streamline the parliamentary process to ensure that we do not have Bills that are passed and then come back, like we do on the Order Paper right now. We have Bills that are coming back, and the regulations are being introduced now after it has been passed. And because the regulations did not agree with the original Bill, Mr. Speaker, that is when you have all of these different amendments. This is when you have all of these different loopholes that people find, Mr. Speaker, because t hey did not think about it, or it was not thought of because the Opposition did not have a chance to really have their questions answered. So, Mr. Speaker, once again it goes back to who gets a li cence? Ensuring that it is a fair process, how will a lot of our things be addressed; i.e., congestion? How do we legitimise visitors’ renting cars? How do we legitimise visitors’ riding on our roads, Mr. Speaker? And just, in closing, because I hear that I am getting a lot of opposition from the Government when I am asking them how we can improve and streamline and make our legislation and passing of legislation more efficient, most robust, more inclusive of all things and all concerns so that we have bett er laws, so we have better legislation? Because, Mr. Speaker, I know the . . . All I will say is this. We are so quick, and the Government is so quick to say no to things when it is coming from a local, when it is coming from a Berm udian. But they are so quick to say yes when it is co ming from a non- Bermudian. That, Mr. Speaker, has to change. That, Mr. Speaker, is what is holding Berm uda back. Thank you very much.
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE SPEAKER
HOUSE VISITOR
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member. Just before the Honourable Member begins to speak, I want to just take this opportunity. I see in the Gallery one of my mentors from a long time, one of my mentors from Silver City, from Somerset, Cogwood Pearman, [PHONETIC 01:02:35] and his wife. So, please …
Thank you, Honourable Member. Just before the Honourable Member begins to speak, I want to just take this opportunity. I see in the Gallery one of my mentors from a long time, one of my mentors from Silver City, from Somerset, Cogwood Pearman, [PHONETIC 01:02:35] and his wife. So, please carry on. [Desk thumping]
Hon. Sylvan D. Richards, Jr.: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I will start off my comments by speaking to an experience that I had when I used to live in the US. You know, I had a business in the Uni ted States, and one day a gentleman walked into my establishment, and he had on a Bermuda T -shirt. This was on Long Island. So I said, Oh! You have been to Bermuda. So he looked at me. He said, Yeah. My wife got killed on a rental cycle in Bermuda. And that smile disappeared right off of my face, Mr. Speaker, because it was the last thing I thought I was going to hear. And I thought the guy was pulling my leg. I thought he was joking. So I said, Are you serious? He said, Yeah. I lost my wife a few years ago on a rental cycle in Bermuda. So I will just put that out there, because, you know, we come up in this House sometimes, and we laugh and we joke, and, you know, we kind of get a little sarcastic about things. But this, to me, is a matter of life and death. It is a matter of life and death. It is a safety issue for our visitors. We have all seen tourists on our roads on a rental cycle probably ever since we first started dri ving, ourselves, wiggling all over our roads, crashing into walls, crashing into roundabouts. I remember a few years ago I was driving down East Broadway, heading home. I saw a tourist, a gentleman and his wife (his wife was on the back) come off of Trimingham Hill. They must have been doing about 60, completely out of control —hit the roundabout. Both of them flew over the flowerbeds and landed in the road. I thought they were dead. Luckily, they survived. Unfortunately, too many of our visitors have not survived incidents like that. So I just wanted to put that out there, Mr. Speaker. The Member who spoke before me, you know, I had some difficulty, I must say, following his logic. Because one of the last comments he made was that this Government does things for nonBermudians and we put foreigners first. And I am tr ying to figure out where he is going with his rhetoric in terms of this particular Bill. Now, what is happening with this Bill is this: We are creating entrepreneurial businesses and opportunities for Bermudians. Now, I do not know specifically who the individuals are who are going to be opening up these minicar rental liveries. But they are going to be Bermudian, which is why initially we were thinking about having it only for electric vehicles. But now this Bill will cover gas -powered veh icles also, because there are going to be some entr epreneurs who want to deal with green technology. You know, what I am finding out is that people are either into green technology or they are into the old284 25 November 2016 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly fashioned technology, gas -powered vehicles. I am into old-fashioned technology. I am still trying to wrap my head around all this electric stuff. But I know it is coming. It is here. And in the future, that is probably going to be the standard. So these liveries are going to create opport unities for Bermudians. I do not know where the other Member was going with all this non- Bermudian stuff. But be that as it may, I will move on. The Honourable Member also mentioned, how will these visitors handle these mini rental vehicles, minicar rental vehicles, on Bermuda’s roads? Well, they will do the same thing that they have been doing ever since Bermuda entered the tourism bus iness. We drive on the left -hand side. Most of our vis itors drive on the right -hand side because they come from the United States. They will have to get used to it, just lik e they do now. You have tourists who ride livery cycles on the left, and they have to make an adjustment, just like I have to make an adjustment when I travel to the Uni ted States and I rent a vehicle, a rental car. Just like when I go to the Dominican Republic and I jump on my Harley -Davidson, I have to say, All right, Sylvan. Stay on the right or else you are going to end up as a hood ornament. And sometimes, I find myself drifting to the left, and I am seeing a car, and I am like, Why is this car on thi s side of the road? And I am the one on the wrong side of the road. So we make these a djustments. The bottom line is that we are in the tourism business, or at least I thought we were. And the prob-lem, I think, with what we have been doing with tour-ism is that we try to force our visitors to do what we want them to do. We try to say, Well, being you’re in Bermuda, you have to ride a rental cycle, even though the last time you were probably on a bike of any sort was when you were four, five, six, seven, eight years old. So we are creating another amenity for our vis itors. And this amenity, these minicars, are far safer alternatives to what they have now. And as Bermudians, we will adjust, and we will get used to driving behind a tourist in a little 150 cc, t hree- wheeled or four - wheeled minicar putting along, just like we adhere to and allow our visitors on rental cycles to see our beau tiful Island. It is just a safer method of transport ation for our visitors. So we need to stop finding reasons not to do things. You know, the Honourable Member was tal king about, Oh, there’s no . . . We don’t push the edge and push the envelope. And I am just confused by his comments, because this is what we are doing. We are saying, Okay. For the 48 per cent of you who would like to rent a vehicle, you can still rent your motorcycle if you want to see the Island that way. You can still rent your livery cycle. But here’s another option. If you don’t feel comfortable on two wheels, we have a four - wheeled option or a three- wheeled option for you. And I am sure that of the 48 per cent who do want a rental vehicle, a number of those will rent these new minicars. In the past, Mr. Speaker (and I am sure others will remember this), we used to have 6,000 livery c ycles on Bermuda’s roads that were available for rent. You know, I remember when they used to have tourist events specifically during college weeks, which I would like to see come back in some form. You would go up South Shore and you would see Mobylettes at that time, because th at was the livery cycle that was rented out. You would see thousands of them up near Marley Beach and all up there where the gas station is now on South Shore —thousands and thousands of livery cycles. You do not see that now. You see a group here, a group there. Maybe you go up Hors eshoe Bay, you may see some rental cycles, but no-where near in the numbers that we used to have. And it is not like all of these vehicles are going to be on the road at the same time. The Honourable Member talked about congestio n. Well, Bermuda is always congested. We have always been congested. Even when we had horses and buggies, I suspect we were congested in some shape, form or another. So that argument does not wash with me. And, you know, I have to give credit to the Minis ter for Transport, because he went out and he consulted with the stakeholders —the taxi drivers, the minibus operators. He did! He spoke with them. They dialogued. This Government listened. We made adjustments. And for the most part, I am confident, the Government is confident that we have buy -in from the majority of the taxi operators and minibus operators. Now, there will always be some who will object. That is what happens in a democracy. And I am sure that the Honourable Member does have some letters fro m a taxi driver or two who maybe object to this new r egime being implemented. That is fine. We are never going to get 100 per cent buy -in on anything. That is totally and completely unrealistic. So let us put that too into perspective. But, you know, I want to get back to the fact that we are in the tourism business. And since being the Government, we have put in place the Bermuda Tourism Authority and things are happening. Finally, things are happening. Bermuda is on the map again, from a tourism perspect ive. You know, just last weekend, once again I was out and about, and I met two visitors, young ladies visiting Bermuda for the first time, from Boston. And they were just having a great time in Bermuda. And the weather was not that great. The weather has not been that great. It was raining and whatnot So I said, Hey, how are you guys making out with the weather? Oh, the weather’s okay! We’re having a good time. Everybody in Bermuda is so friendly! Ever ybody’s been so nice to us!
Bermuda House of Assembly And then they made a comment that even made me laugh. They said, Even the gangsters are nice!
[Laughter]
Hon. Sylvan D. Richards, Jr.: The gangsters are really nice people! But, you know, I believe it is true. Bermudians are nice. We like to show off our country. We like it when people spend their hard- earned money, come to Bermuda, rent a cycle, travel around, intermingle with us. We intermingle with them. And what this Bill will do is make their stay here just a little bit safer. Because whenever I hear of a tourist —and thank goodness it has not happened in a while— but when I hear that a tourist comes to Bermuda and loses their life on one of our roads, that is tragic. When anyone loses a life on our roads, it is tragic. So I support this Bill. Most people in Bermuda get it regardless of the rhetoric that spouted on the other side on occasion. And I look forward to seeing young Bermudians take advantage of this business opportunity, because it is a business opportunity. Get a couple of these minicars, rent them out, make some money, and let us enhance our tourism product, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.
[Desk thumping]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you very much, Honourable Member. The Chair will recognise the Honourable Member from constituency 5. MP D. V. Burgess, you have the floor. Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, just briefly let me say that som etimes we Bermudians are a bit selfish. We …
Thank you very much, Honourable Member. The Chair will recognise the Honourable Member from constituency 5. MP D. V. Burgess, you have the floor. Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, just briefly let me say that som etimes we Bermudians are a bit selfish. We go to other countries; we rent cars and drive them, if we have l icences. The big difference there, other than what si de of the road you drive on (unless you are going in Lo ndon), is that they have got bigger roads and more speed. Now, in Bermuda, we have not had any new roads for over 30 years. And I am in agreement with the Shadow Minister, [Lawrence] Scott, concerning his stance on this here. Because, Mr. Speaker, there are a few things that concern me. These are minicars. And normally, if a young child who has reached the age of 16 wants to ride a bike, they have to take a licence test down at TCD [Transport Control De partment]. And if they become 18, whether it is a bike or a car, they have to take the necessary bike licences and get a doctor’s clearance. Now, if we allow folks to come to Bermuda and then jump in that minicar and drive, then certainly we will have to change the laws so that Bermudians have that same privilege. Because I do not believe that one should have more than the other, even though it happens in other circles and places in Bermuda. Everybody should be on equal ground.
The Hon. Dr. E. Grant GibbonsTh e Bill is quite clear that they will only be able to (quote/unquote) “jump into a car,” into a minicar, with a recognised licence. So, somebody who takes a test for a bike at TCD is going to have a licence. Bermudians will have a licence. They will require …
Th e Bill is quite clear that they will only be able to (quote/unquote) “jump into a car,” into a minicar, with a recognised licence. So, somebody who takes a test for a bike at TCD is going to have a licence. Bermudians will have a licence. They will require a recognised and valid driver’s licence, as well. And they will not be able to just jump in the car and drive off. They will have to undergo training, and that is part of the specifications in the Bill. Thank you.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Dr. Gibbons. [Inaudible interjection] [No audio from 01:18:24 to 01:18:30] Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: . . . one coming from Timbuktu with a licence, we do not know whether that person is a disqualified driver or not. You know? And I guess it goes the other way …
Thank you, Dr. Gibbons.
[Inaudible interjection] [No audio from 01:18:24 to 01:18:30]
Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: . . . one coming from Timbuktu with a licence, we do not know whether that person is a disqualified driver or not. You know? And I guess it goes the other way if we go overseas. But even though they will have their licence, for example, if I have a licence for a car in Bermuda and I want to drive a truck, a big truck. I have to take another test. So, it is not so cut -and-dried because I have a licence from another country and here, because in . . . we have to conform to the rules of this country. Now, Mr. Speaker, the other thing, I think the main thing that I have . . . now, let me say this here. I think they will be safer for anyone, for tourists. They certainly will be safer as far as bike accidents and stuff like that. So it is not all bad. But the other thing is the space to park when one comes into Hamilton. I ride my bike, and it is fairly easy most times to get a parking space. Now, with these vehicles, whi ch can be a maximum of five feet wide, that takes up three bikes —three bikes. We just do not have the space.
The Hon. Dr. E. Grant GibbonsMr. Speaker, point of clarification again, if I may. Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: Yes. 286 25 November 2016 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly
The Hon. Dr. E. Grant GibbonsYes. They would be parking in car spaces. And actually, the Corporation has designated an area at Bull’s Head at the top to provide much more space for them, as well. Thank you.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAll right. Thank you. MP Burgess. Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: Yes, Mr. Speaker. You know, even cars have problems finding spaces in town. So either way you do it, it is going to create some problems. And [there] are no limits on these, on how many you can bring …
All right. Thank you. MP Burgess.
Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: Yes, Mr. Speaker. You know, even cars have problems finding spaces in town. So either way you do it, it is going to create some problems. And [there] are no limits on these, on how many you can bring int o the country. I mean, that would be a nice . . . I would call it a nice second car for me. If I could put a top on it and keep the rain from hitting my bald scalp, my head, you know, that would be nice. But, Mr. Speaker . . .
[Laughter]
Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: I just have a problem with that there. And I look at the taxis, the industry itself. Whether they know it or not, we have 600 taxis in the Island. We had 600 taxis in the Island when we were taking in over half -a-million passengers at the airport. Now we are only getting 300[,000], and then we had some improvements the other day, and I am appalled . . . I am not appalled, I am happy about the increase in the tourist numbers. So not only that, we have many minibuses that have infringed on the taxi industry. It definitely is factual; there will be less work for the taxis already, with the minibuses. And with these minicars, it would affect them. The taxis depend on tourism. If I was a tourist coming to Bermuda, I would take a minicar, me and my . . . whoever was with me, and we would get in this little car and drive around Bermuda. I do not think there is anything better you can do. But Berm uda is not New York. Bermuda is not London. We want all the things that you can get in those big cities. B ut we do not have the space. And I think we have got to be cognisant of the size of this country. We want this, we want water sports, we want all of that. We want a circus and all that in these 22 square miles. It is less than 22; with the erosion it is pr obably down to 21, you know.
[Laughter]
Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: So, Mr. Speaker, I would caution . . . I do not think it is something that we need at this time. You do not find tourists saying, I want to hire a minicar! We do not have much problem with that. It is not like, you know, I’m going to get in a minicar, and I’m going to drive [to] Somerset —there in a half hour, you know. Unlike us, we go to the United States, and you have got to travel 20 miles before Bermuda r eaches the museum, the mall museum. They have got to drive to that every day. And you are talking about 20 miles, 30 miles. But it is just not the case here. [The visitors] will get tired of it, because there is nowhere to go. And with the traffic that we have on the roads, you cannot tell the tourists, I’ve got a minicar, but I don’t want you to drive between 7:00 and 9:00, because our people are going to work, and between 4:30 and 6:30 because they’re going to home. We are going to have some problems wit h those things. And we do not need them. Now, over 30 years ago, I think the last brandnew road we got was Palmetto Road. And even that has had some problems now because the engineers at that time did not figure out that we are going to have all these bi g trucks and tractors and trailers. So we are spending money now to fix those just like at Marsh Folly —the erosion out there. Well, it was not designed to take these heavy vehicles. So, Mr. Speaker, I would hope that this Bill . . . I would hope that they can just rise and report pr ogress and look at the size of this country. This infr astructure is saturated with vehicles. And it really can-not, in my opinion, take any more. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAll right. Thank you. Thank you, Honourable Member. The Chair will now recognise the Honourable Member from constituency 14. MP Glen Smith, you have the floor.
Mr. Glen SmithThank you, and good morning, Mr. Speaker. I support the Motor Car Amendment [(No. 2)] Act 2016, known as the minicar renta ls and livery services. I would also like to thank the Minister, who did consult with the taxi association and various other stakeholders, such as the police, road …
Thank you, and good morning, Mr. Speaker. I support the Motor Car Amendment [(No. 2)] Act 2016, known as the minicar renta ls and livery services. I would also like to thank the Minister, who did consult with the taxi association and various other stakeholders, such as the police, road safety, and other officials. Mr. Speaker, I want to declare my noninterest — [Laughter]
Mr. Glen SmithNon- interest as a managing director of Auto Solutions, which, as we all know, is an aut omotive company. We sell vehicles, parts and services to the taxi industry also. However, I can inform this Honourable House, once again, that Auto Solut ions does not have any distributing agreement or …
Non- interest as a managing director of Auto Solutions, which, as we all know, is an aut omotive company. We sell vehicles, parts and services to the taxi industry also. However, I can inform this Honourable House, once again, that Auto Solut ions does not have any distributing agreement or agreements in the pike with any mini/quad/cycle business or minicar rental manufacturers.
Bermuda House of Assembly Mr. Speaker, we need to be looking to do more for our tourism industry here. And it has been said this morning about the more amenities that are wanted. And we work and we are in a tourism market that is very competitive, extremely competitive. And there are niche markets that compete directly with us, small European islands, places in Europe and, obv iously, the Caribbean. We also have to consider, what do our clients’ demands require today? Sure, not ev erybody wants to rent a mini -vehicle. Not everybody wants to ride an auxiliary cycle. But they should be given the option. Just like we have to represent the minorities in other areas in what we do as parliamentarians, everybody deserves representation at the end of the day. Mr. Speaker, the tourist and the business vis itor have repeatedly asked me, many years ago in my first business when I used to drive a horse and carriage from Front Street (which I drove for four years) . . . and they used to say, Why can’t we rent a car? Why isn’t that available? And, you know, I could not answer them back then and what have you. But I li stened to them, and since then, obviously, I h ave bus iness associates who ask me that today. And here we are today debating it. Once again, we have to be competitive with our brothers and sisters in the Caribbean and the rest of the world to be able to offer another amenity, such as renting a minicar . There is a new generation that is out there, which is the Millennials. And they are a group from ages 21 to 39 years old. They are an i nteresting group. They do all their research on the I nternet. So, for example, can you imagine they are checking out Bermuda, saying, What does Bermuda have to offer me? Do they have a five- star hotel? Do they have gaming? Do they offer minicar rentals? Do they have auxiliary cycles? Do they have pools, and what have you? They check all that out before they even consider booking a flight to Bermuda or booking a hotel. They are a group that does not tie in to trad itional methods of transport, such as taxis or buses. Today, they just use Uber in the US, in New York, or wherever they are from. And do you know there are over 80 [million] Millennials in the US alone? Twenty - five per cent of those are millionaires already. That is a market that we are after. That is what we are after. That is why we are building five- star hotels. Mr. Speaker, I would like to address a bit about the safety aspect. Unfortunately, some of us have been riding behind and we have seen a tourist get in a bad accident. We have also witnessed tourists down at the airport as they are lugged up the steps of an airplane, full of road rash. And years ago, the y used to put Mercurochrome on them, which is that red stuff, dye, so you could tell they had actually had a taste of Bermuda roads. You know, the lack of understanding of how to ride an auxiliary cycle is understandable. And that is when tourists get into difficulty. They apply brakes when they see something oncoming. Of course, you are on a small bike with only 50 cc, and not a well -balanced vehicle. And some of the tourists might be a little bit overweight and cannot compensate when they hit the brakes. The next thing you know, they are down on the asphalt. Particularly on rainy roads, that is almost like ice. As we all know, at least I have experienced it. I am sure a lot of my colleagues here have had road rash after falling off their bikes onto wet ro ads. In regard to the other safety aspect of it, you know, by allowing tourists or business visitors to be able to be in these mini rentals, they will feel safer because it will be limited as to having handbag - snatching take place when they are driving up the road, because they are not on two wheels. They are in a four -wheel vehicle that is covered and what have you. And also, the other sexual harassments that we have had on our roads from individuals. And we have talked about being able to drive a rental vehicle on our roads. Well, the majority of these people who would be renting these vehicles have been driving since their teens. They are very comfortable behind a wheel. They are very comfort able with a foot brake, and they are very comfortable with a f oot accelerator, along with a seatbelt to strap them in. And this week, Mr. Speaker, I did go and visit one of the vendor/suppliers of these vehicles. I ha ppened to visit the one which is called the Twizy. Well, Mr. Speaker, no offence, sir, but yourself and the Honourable Minister, Cole Simons, would have a bit of a problem getting in that Twizy, that is for sure. It is developed pretty much for —
[Inaudible interjections and laughter]
Mr. Glen SmithWell, what I am trying to do is just show the analogy ; it is a very tight, tight space. And the good thing about this particular vehicle that I looked at is that it is eco- friendly, which is good for the environment. And it has numerous sorts of …
Well, what I am trying to do is just show the analogy ; it is a very tight, tight space. And the good thing about this particular vehicle that I looked at is that it is eco- friendly, which is good for the environment. And it has numerous sorts of safety features with it, such as seatbelts, front airbag, front and back lights, a horn, indicators signalling which way you are going to go, flasher lights, windscreen with a wiper, speedometer, and of course, a small storage space for a locker. And this particular vehicle that I looked at has the ability to have an app attached to it. Do not ask me how that works because I am not one of those Millennials who can figure that out. But it also could give them a tour as they are driving around the Island, so they get a better understanding of different areas where they are. We have heard the argument of driving, as we drive on the left -hand side and most of our visitors drive on the right -hand side. Well, the truth of the matter is, and it has been said, we all travel. And yes, when I rent a car, I certainly have to pay a lot more 288 25 November 2016 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly attention when I first come out of the airport and get onto a major highway and think what side I have to be on. And you know what? They will get used to that as we get used to it. We are no different from anybody else who travels around the world. Now, Mr. Speaker, one of the areas I would like to touch upon is the taxi element. The taxi drivers are great ambassadors, and I thank them for what they do for Bermuda. Because besides the Immigr ation officer they first meet, they are the next point of contact, and they are the best salespeople on our roads. There is no doubt about that. And one thing that I believe, and what I know is with these particular Twizy [minicars], as I said, you could not get a sui tcase . . . I do not even think you can get a six -pack of beer in the back of it, to be honest with you. [Inaudible interjections and laughter]
[Gavel]
[Inaudible interjection]
Mr. Glen SmithWell, perhaps I should have said a six-pack of water would probably be more appropriate to what I have just said, then, for Members across the House. [Inaudible interjections and laughter]
Mr. Glen SmithI do not need to t hink about Burt’s Bliss. [Crosstalk]
Mr. Glen SmithMr. Speaker, when I travel overseas, if I rent a car, I never drive at night. I always hire a taxi or I hire Uber. First of all, I do not know where I am going at night, and with lights and what have you. I use HITCH in Bermuda—great …
Mr. Speaker, when I travel overseas, if I rent a car, I never drive at night. I always hire a taxi or I hire Uber. First of all, I do not know where I am going at night, and with lights and what have you. I use HITCH in Bermuda—great service. And, you know, it sounds familiar . You have parking issues. And once again, you want to enjoy yourself while you are out and you want to be responsible. So I believe that the taxi service will be used more frequently for this in the evenings when people go out. Mr. Speaker, I have a busi ness partner who was going to rent a home here two years ago and bring his family down for six weeks, a home in Tuc ker’s Town. And he was going to spend, over the course of six weeks, probably a cumulative amount of about probably $60,000. He has a very large family, and he wanted to have access to be able to rent a car or a mini -vehicle, as he does when he goes wherever he travels in the Caribbean or the Mediterranean. But the one thing that stopped him from renting here was that he was not going to be ab le to rent a car. And it was not to rent a car to compete with the taxi business. It was to rent a car so that he had the ability to leave when he wanted to go somewhere with his daughter or his son together. And I am sure there are numerous cases of that that are out there. And once again, we just have to adjust to the times, adjust to what our clients or consumers are looking for. And, Mr. Speaker, I support this Bill and I look forward to further debate. Thank you.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAll right. Thank you. Thank you, Honourable Member. The Chair will recognise now the Honourable Member from constituency 33. MP Jamahl Simmons, you have the floor.
Mr. Jamahl S. SimmonsGood morning, colleagues, and good morning to the people of Bermuda. Mr. Speaker, I was baffled by the Members from the opposite side who referred to extensive consultation by the Minister from another place, who does not sit in this Chamber. I w as baffled by the glowing praise of …
Good morning, colleagues, and good morning to the people of Bermuda. Mr. Speaker, I was baffled by the Members from the opposite side who referred to extensive consultation by the Minister from another place, who does not sit in this Chamber. I w as baffled by the glowing praise of this consultation, how he talked to all the stakeholders. And I said, Perhaps they were all off - Island and missed the meeting at Warwick Workmans Club, where the taxi industry rose up and let the Mi nister know in no uncertain terms that they were not happy with this approach. The consultation came on the back end, Mr. Speaker, after being treated . . . I have to say, Mr. Speaker. I have been in politics a long time. I have had relatives in politics. I have never seen in my entire political career in Bermuda a Minister handle so badly a situation on the front end and in the meeting. And I was disappointed, I have to say, because, you know, when you have a Government, you are supposed to be a Cabinet team with Cabinet respo nsibility. The Minister was there by himself. The photo- op Premier, the Honourable Member, was not present. All the Members who are sitting on the floor were not there in Warwick Workmans Club to see for themselves the anger that the Minister who sits in another place had generated by his version of “consultation.” Mr. Speaker, today when we pulled up to Parliament, we were greeted by what is becoming a very familiar sight under the One Bermuda Alliance, a policeman at the gate, policemen around the buildi ng, and fences. Earlier, there was a policeman sitting in this Chamber. This is the legacy to the OBA’s ap-proach to consultation. Mr. Speaker, we have often talked about why is it that when we come to this Chamber, when we discuss issues relating to international business [IB], it proceeds smoothly? We have talked about this because there is proper consultation, proper consultation with the industry, the stakehol ders, the Government and the Opposition. So the i ssues can be hammered out before it comes to the
Bermuda House of Assembly Chamber. In tourism and transport we continue to get this wrong. And it is now time for the approach that has been proven successful with IB to be taken with tourism so that we can get people on board properly — not after they have to drag you out to a meeting and yell and scream and curse at you and threaten you. [Consult] before. So this was handled very poorly, very, very poorly. And it is this pattern of behaviour which the Government is failing to learn from. That is why we have police surrounding the Chamber again, fences up again, because Lord knows who they have aggr avated this time with their brand of consultation. Mr. Speaker, now I have to semi -declare i nterest. My family, my great -grandfather was the founder of Dowling’s Cycle, one of the first livery co mpanies in Bermuda. The rental cycle business helped pay for many of my relatives to go to college, to build their homes, to enjoy a quality of life, the best quality of life that Bermuda can offer. Mr. Speaker, we left the business. My great -uncle sold the business when he retired, so we do not have any skin in the game at this moment. But when we talk about safety, I am very concerned that . . . and I hope that the Government will do what I have done. I digress for a second. There are people in the industry now who are renting bikes to individuals who cannot even speak English. They are overseeing the tests and cannot even properly speak English. And they just send them on their way. And that must be addressed, Mr. Speaker, because we are now having businesses in this country that are putting our bus iness at risk. Now, Mr. Speaker, on the issue of safety, tourism safety with these vehicles, I have no issue with that. I think that that is a good point. But repeatedly [Members] from the Government side have spoken about the safety to the [tourists], but not a dickey - bird about the safety of Bermudians —the Bermudians who will share the road with these tourists, the Bermudians who will be pedestrians while these vehicles are on the road. Not a word. Not one single, solitary word about the safety of the people who live here and call it home. So when my honourable colleague talks about the difference in perspective and the difference in ap-proach, that speaks to it right there. Because, Mr. Speaker, we have seen . . . and we could talk at length about what we have seen on the rental bikes when the World Rugby Classic is on. Now just imagine these same people tooling down the road in veh icles. Eh? I get hit by a moped; I will probably be all right. How wi ll I be if I get hit by one of those? These are the types of issues that we need to be very, very clear on. We have to talk about these issues, because the tourist goes. No matter what they do, eventually, unless they end up in the pokey, they go. But we are left here to deal with the consequences, Mr. Speaker. Now, because of the Government’s approach to consultation, because of the Government’s approach to the truth, I am very sceptical about the m otive behind this Bill. I am very sceptical, Mr. Speaker. We have had a Government that has broken promi ses. We have had a Government that has been caught stretching the truth, embellishing the truth. We have a Government that has lost the trust of the people. They know. They know what their polls say. Trust is a big issue with this Government, Mr. Speaker. So when you tell me it is for the tourists, but the polls that the Bermuda Tourism Authority have produced say the tourists do not want it, well, obviously, okay, it is not for the tourists. And when you say, Well, we just want to add another amenity for Millennials, well, Mr. Speaker, the Honourable Member who just took his seat . . . I actually am sorry that he is not the Junior Minister of Tourism, because he has pr oduced more content and quality information than the Honourable Member who holds that position. Now, Mr. Speaker, the Millennials want many things. They want many things. Is this Government’s position that no matter what the tourism surveys say, we will just give whatever to whomever because they ask for it? Is that the approach? Where is the plan? Because I know Millennials, they like the little exotic dancers, a little nightlife. Is the Government saying, Well, you know what? They like that. We’ll get them that, we’ll do that, too? There has to be a plan. There has to be a line. And when you see numbers, striking numbers, that our visitors who know Bermuda, who love Bermuda, do not want this, what is really driving this? And I am glad the Honourable Member who took his seat declared that he woul d have no interest—
The SpeakerThe SpeakerJust a minute. I cannot hear you because your Members are behind you, talking.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYes, but I cannot hear you. I want to hear you.
Mr. Ja mahl S. SimmonsMr. Speaker, I apologise for their rambunctiousness. Mr. Speaker, the audience . . . if the audience is not demanding it . . . and as I said, I am glad the Honourable Member who just took his seat pr oclaimed he has no interest in this. But, Mr. Speaker, …
Mr. Speaker, I apologise for their rambunctiousness. Mr. Speaker, the audience . . . if the audience is not demanding it . . . and as I said, I am glad the Honourable Member who just took his seat pr oclaimed he has no interest in this. But, Mr. Speaker, I notice that in this Bill (and I may stand to be correc ted) there is no provision against, as we did in the Gaming Bill a couple of days ago, Members being involved in this two years from now or less. There is no protection of that. So we know the Government. And the Honourable Member has said in his own words, and I will quote, “The One Bermuda Alliance 290 25 November 2016 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly does contradict itself sometimes.” It does contradict itself sometimes. “And we make no apologi es for that.” So the words that will come . . . we remain sceptical. We remain cautious. We remain concerned that the motives have not been made clear. The ben eficiaries have not been made clear. And the benefits have not been made clear. Mr. Speaker, I, as the Shadow Minister of Tourism and wi th the will of the people and the will of the Leader, perhaps the next Minister of Tourism . . . I understand the limitations that our country faces in terms of our product offerings, in terms of what we have available. I remember that I was talking to someone connected with Shaquille O’Neal, a couple of years ago, and he wanted to come to Bermuda. But at that time, there was no five- star hotel. And Shaquille O’Neal only stays in a five- star hotel. So, you know, that happens.
[Inaudible interjection]
Mr. Jamahl S. SimmonsNo, at that time there was not. At that time, there was not. And thankfully to the PLP, the Tucker’s Point did come on board. Mr. Speaker, the point I am making is this. We are in a competitive environment. We are targeting wealthy, hig h-end individuals who will enjoy …
No, at that time there was not. At that time, there was not. And thankfully to the PLP, the Tucker’s Point did come on board. Mr. Speaker, the point I am making is this. We are in a competitive environment. We are targeting wealthy, hig h-end individuals who will enjoy what we have to offer. Mr. Speaker, where we have to be very clear, as we move away from our nostalgia brand of tourism that was focused on the past and what worked in the past and all that into what the world will offer now is . . . we have to be cautious. We have to be clear that in our race to become more inviting, more accepting, that we do not lose the uniqueness of our product. Because while I may think our beach is beautiful, to someone who does not know the difference, a beach is a beach. We have a very unique product, and we must balance and manage our pr ogress as we fix our product, as we grow our product to ensure that the strength that we have already is not cast aside for a quick thrill or a quick buck or a quick , you know, blip. It is about longevity. It is about longevity. Now, Mr. Speaker, when they talk about these vehicles, I know that sometimes they are referred to as cars and sometimes they are referred to as motor-ised three- wheel whatever. And the point i s that they only hold two people and do not fit somebody your size or my size like that. Perhaps this is the thin edge of the wedge to get to the larger vehicles. And that is what we have to be . . . and I think that is where ho nesty is required. If the Go vernment in their consult ative process, in a proper consultative process, said, You know what? We are prepared to offer to the hotels, for your high- end customers, the ones who get the penthouse, the ones who get the $5,000 a night room, for them as an ame nity to the hotels, because they are going to be based in the hotels as a pilot pr ogramme, right? You then have an opportunity for the taxi i ndustry and people to see how it works for themselves. You have an amenity for the guests, the high- end guests. You have a win- win situation where, if it succeeds, if it fails, you can then go out to the wider mar-ket and let the market take its course. We did not do that. And that takes me back to my point, and this is my final point. The Government is not learning and progressing from its mistakes. To come up here and wax lyrical about consultation, when we who know the truth know that the consultative process failed out the gate, was strangled in the cradle and had to be resuscitated after the people said no. So l et us get away from that. But there is an opportunity. The Gover nment has some time left to try and clean up, make a little extra credit. Let us take an approach, going for-ward, which is proper consultation. Let us look at how we manage international business and how we manage their affairs. And let us try, as much as possible, to take that model over to tourism and transport. We can get what we want done more efficiently, more effectively, if we do proper consultation. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The Speake r: All right. Thank you. Thank you, Honourable Member. The Chair will recognise the Honourable Member from constituency 12, the Minister of Works, Minister Cannonier. Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think the best way for me to start off here would be to say we all like choices in life. And we are living at a time whereby we are bombarded with any number of choices. I can recall, and maybe I have spoken before about this here, but I can recall when my daughter said, Listen. You need to up your game with your clothes. And so, we were in the States, and we went to Gap. And I wanted a pair of jeans. I just wanted a pair of jeans. And when we got into Gap, I was astounded, actually quite bewildered, at t he choices I had available to me. You had faded, you had dark, you had black, you had green, you had blue, pink, red, yellow. I mean, the colours were endless. You either had boot cut, wide cut, low cut, faded, prewashed, holes in it, no holes in it, and the list went on. I stood there and said, My goodness! All I want is a pair of jeans. So we are living at a time where the Millennials like choices. They want to know that they have choices. And I am sure that everyone in this House of Assembly, including the visitors’ [gallery], would attest to the fact that when they [travel], they go online and they look at what choices they have. Now, I take the point that we need a balanced approach here. But what we have is tourism numbers increasing. And so, what we need to look at . . . and I heard about cars. And I want to remind all of us that we were at the
Bermuda House of Assembly 6,000 number for rental bikes. We are down to 2,000something. As time has changed, these bikes also have changed, and so that is why we have these quad cycles in front of us because they actually are safer. They are safer. And in his brief the Honourable Minister spoke about the safety of these issues. But I will get to that in a minute. What I want to talk about really are the choices. Now, Bermudians, we ar e and have been a unique bunch. We are great privateers. I mean, our ancestry goes back to, you know, taking and benefi ting from it and also saying, Well, you can do it in your land, but don’t come and do it in ours. But if we come over to your land, I want to be able to get the ATV. I want to be able to get the quad cycle. I want to be able to drive on your roads, which are right -hand- side drive. I want all of these amenities, to be able to do it, and guess what? Don’t ask me to take a pre- test when I go away to do these things. I have got my l icence to drive. It is on the left -hand side, and forget you if you drive on the right -hand side. I want to be able to do it. And guess what? We have that luxury. Now, I am talking about balance here. I am not saying that we need to go . . . and I think that we need to go in steps. Every move that we do through the increased numbers in tourism here needs to ensure that we are not heading in a direction to where we do not want to be. And I take the point, you know, th e Honour able Member who just sat down made, talking about, you know, We might be getting to rental cars and the like, but that is all speculative. I am not in this House to be speculative or to conjecture. What we have in front of us right now . . . the sa me daughter who took me away to the Gap, who showed me all of these kinds of jeans that I had as options before me, she always also says to me, Here and now. I do not want to go through all of this other stuff. Here, and right now. So here and right now, w e have in front of us an opportunity for our tourists to come and have a slightly different experience. And albeit maybe the numbers are not saying as many would like to get on our roads, but there are some who would like to get on our roads. And this prov ides an opportunity. It does not have to be overwhelmingly 80 per cent of our tourists who say, Well, I want to have a quad cycle to allow the option to be available to me. The whole point of options is that you are appealing to a broad spectrum of peopl e. So, of course, you are not going to get a majority of the people saying that they want something. But it is an amenity that we should be providing! It is safe! And if we want to get back up to the 6,000 numbers that we used to have back in the day on the roads, then we should be supplying something that makes sense, and this makes sense. You know, gone are the days . . . and I am going to jump to the last part of it. Listen, the Honour-able Member said (I am paraphrasing), he is good - looking, you know. H e looks good. You know what? Gone are the days for Bermuda to be able to stand on the fact that you are just pretty! Pretty is not good enough! And we have seen decade after decade after decade the fact that Bermuda is beautiful! But it is not good enough in the world market today! I heard an Honourable Member speak the other day about Cuba. You know, their doors are opening up in tourism. I am going to tell you, I have been to Cuba. And I got in one of those little muk - muks . Okay? It had a little lawnmower engine on it, a three- wheeler. And my wife and I were jamming! I mean jamming! Wreeeeeeeeeeeee! I want everybody to get the picture in their mind. It looked like an egg I was in, you know. I was peeping out of this egg, jamming along. I had a good time. It was fun.
[Inaudible interjection]
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: Sorry. The guy was dri ving, and he was in the front. Yes. I must admit the guy was in the front driving. But I could have gone out and rented other things myself and driven. So I could have rented a car easy, easy, and driven wherever I wanted to go. So the point is, you know, I am not trying to split hairs. The point is that we have options available to us as we travel. And we already know that Berm uda is second to none when it comes to natur al beauty. But that has proven to be, decade after decade, not enough. So we have got to do more in a balanced way to appeal to our visitors. I mean, let us just face it. We are a high- end destination. But guess what? Our hotels are old, dated for sure. A nd so we have got to . . . you know, we are looking at building new hotels to up our game here. I would love to be able to see zip -lining and all of these kinds of things, some adventure to our travel here, that will continue to appeal to people, because i t is difficult trying to increase the numbers just having a pretty beach, just having a pink beach, because pe ople have options. And we are just one of those options in a bucket full of options. Just one. And so if we are going to have a product that makes sense, then we need to start looking at some of these options. Because, quite frankly, at the end of the day, as I have already said, being pretty is not good enough. We men in here, we have got all kinds of different ties. Some of us have probably got a heck of a number of ties. And I can assure you that when I see the MP . . . the ladies come here with these shoes they have got on. They have got about probably 50 pairs of shoes in their closet. They have got options! Options! And I like to see them. It looks good. I like to see the different colour green ties these guys come with, and certainly the red ties that come in here. It is good to see. 292 25 November 2016 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly So, I continue on, and I recognise that we are going to have to avoid, as we get along here . . . and I spoke the other day about the fact that we are not speaking the right language when it comes to inves tment in this country, when it comes to tourism and the likes. We have grown out of touch with the rest of the world and what it is looking for. And it is imperative for us to speak the right language back. So we cannot have a high- end destination, and you come here and all you do is get burnt on the beach. And guess what? You can just about [only] buy a bottle of water on our beaches. And so that is why we have t he beach initi ative that has come forward, that we are looking to have more amenities on our beaches to allow us to be able to go out, locals and tourists alike, to enjoy some of these amenities. Now, one point I will say I do take is that our locals will not be able to rent these and—
[Inaudible interjection]
Hon. L. Craig Cannonier: They can? They can. Okay. There we go. It has come out. All right. So, I recognise these opportunities that we are looking to provide, entrepreneurial opportunities on the one hand. And I know the speculation will go back and forth: Well, who are getting these things? While I think in this House we should be e nsuring . . . and I will be the first to say that these e ntrepreneurial opportunities do not have an agenda of the past. I am not afraid to stand up here and say it. I am an entrepreneur. I would like to see more entr epreneurs involved. But we had a situation where many of our entrepreneurs throughout the recession are gone now! They are completely gone! They went u nder, belly -up. This is an opportunity for those same visionary people to get back at the table with som ething that we know can work because, guess what? The numbers are increasing, Mr. Speaker. They act ually are increasing. And so, we are not here to debate the fact that our tourism numbers are increasing. They are increasing. What we need to be doing is providing opportunities for these increased numbers [of tourists] to do stuff other than bake in the sun without being able to buy a bottle of water on our beaches. So with that in mind, Mr. Speaker, if you have taken anything, take this: Being pretty is not good enough anymore. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Minister. The Chair will recognise the Honourable Member from constituency 6. MP Wayne Furbert, you have the floor. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have heard discussion this morning, or debating, on prettiness and about the tourists and all this type of …
Thank you, Honourable Minister. The Chair will recognise the Honourable Member from constituency 6. MP Wayne Furbert, you have the floor. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have heard discussion this morning, or debating, on prettiness and about the tourists and all this type of stuff. Mr. Speaker, what about the people? Michael Jackson said, “They don’t really care about us.” They really do not care about us. That is what Michael Jackson said. And I am sa ying the same thing. Mr. Speaker, the OBA really does not care about us. But let me declare my interest. I am an entrepreneur. And two of the entrepreneurs who are trying to get these cycles are my cousins, one on my mother’s side, one on my father’s side. I should be sitting up here and saying, Cousins, go for it. But, Mr. Speaker, there are 600 taxi dr ivers out there —sorry, vehicles —and probably about 1,200 to 1,500 taxi drivers, which affects 3,000 to 4,000 family members. And we are worried about . . . [you] ca nnot tell me what impact it will have on them. These are men and women, particularly men, who are working in the industry, trying to make a living. And we are going to have an impact on them and their families. And you are telling me I have g ot to stand up and worry about my two cousins? I am sorry. One from Somerset and one from Hamilton Parish. This is not about it. It has an impact on the family. You have not created 2,000 jobs as you prom-ised. You have not created . . . as a matter of fact, we have lost 2,000 jobs. And now we are going to lose more opportunity for our people. The taxi drivers . . . and I am disappointed they are not here today. I u nderstand that, because they are also fighting against the minibuses, so they have got to keep their parts in place as far as competition. But Mr. Speaker, we in this House will have a detrimental i mpact on our taxi industry if we do not stand up for them. Who really cares about them? I do. If it is just me, I do. So, I am saying to this House, what is the impact study that you have done on our taxi drivers? What message are you going to give them the day they cannot get a job? Because the whole bunch of cars coming out of Dockyard [are] causing congestion in our streets. Who is going to speak for them? Newton said for every action there is a reaction. So what is the reaction that you expect? What is the action that you expect after that? I am very much concerned. If you do not think that this is going to e ncourage . . . I heard the Honourable Member say that 6,000 cycles used to be on the road. You know why? Because we had 600,000 tourists.
[Inaudible interjection] Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: That is quite obvious. Fewer tourists mean fewer cycles. But I guarantee you if they had the opportunity to jump in a minicar . . . between a bike and a cycle and a car, which one do you think? Who in the world thinks they are going to be jumping on a cycle? Who? Does anyone on that side think they will be jumping on a livery cycle because they have got a choice between a car and a cycle?
Bermuda House of Assembly [Inaudible interjection]
Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Well, they said mayb e. But they do not know, Mr. Speaker. But they are not jum ping on any cycles when they go to Boston or Florida. Not the Honourable Grant Gibbons, who has probably got his own private limousine picking him up.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerLet us stay away from such things . It is the Honourable Minister of Economic Development. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Honourable Member. I am sorry, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAll right. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: But, Mr. Speaker, I am angry because we have not considered the people. We have not really considered the people! And the impact is going to be detrimental. . . . Twenty? That means roughly probably 100 people in a household. And most of …
All right.
Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: But, Mr. Speaker, I am angry because we have not considered the people. We have not really considered the people! And the impact is going to be detrimental. . . . Twenty? That means roughly probably 100 people in a household. And most of the men are agein g. They cannot go out and be masons anymore. Mr. Speaker, we do not have any construction work. Where are you going to send them? Down at the insurance company to work? The Honourable Member from [constituency] 22 is not g oing to hire them.
[Crosstalk and laughter]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerHonourable Members, there is no . . . Honourable Members —all Honourable Members! There is no conversation between speakers and other Members. Speakers speak through the Chair. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Yes. Yes, Mr. Speaker. Make it very clear that it was not me, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerJust speak to the Chair. [Laughter] Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: So, Mr. Speaker, I am just wondering when they talked about opportunities that allow our tourists to have choices, what choice will our people have once they are out of work? What choice will they have? Will they be heading …
Just speak to the Chair.
[Laughter] Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: So, Mr. Speaker, I am just wondering when they talked about opportunities that allow our tourists to have choices, what choice will our people have once they are out of work? What choice will they have? Will they be heading up to Financial [Assistance] because they cannot pay their bills? Is that the only choice they will have? Is this the direction the OBA wants to send our people, Mr. Spe aker? I am speaking on behalf of our people. I was the former Minister of Tourism. And there was not a tourist who said, I’m not coming to the Island because I can’t drive or ride a bike. I can’t get a car. Would they have rented if they had the opportunity? Yes, they would. But there is nobody who says. . . show me a survey that says I am not coming to Bermuda because you have . . . as a matter of fact, the numbers are going up. Nobody has said they are not coming because they cannot rent a car. This is an Island which is different. We do not have to be like everybody else. We do not have to include everything because somebody says so. And there are places around . . . you cannot get on Tucker’s Town and break through that fence.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberWhich f ence? Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: You know what fence I am talking about. There is a gate down there that we ca nnot even go! There is a gate down there that we cannot even go, Mr. Speaker. You know why? Because they want to limit the amount …
Which f ence?
Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: You know what fence I am talking about. There is a gate down there that we ca nnot even go! There is a gate down there that we cannot even go, Mr. Speaker. You know why? Because they want to limit the amount of traffic going t hrough that area and getting on those three beautiful beaches out there that we as Bermudians cannot even get on. Open up that beach, open up so we can all drive our minibuses and cars through. The day you open that up, I will support . . . maybe I will support your minivans, cars. Until then, I am not supporting it. It is hurting our people. We are trying to get jobs for our people, and now you are trying to take them away. I cannot support that, Mr. Speaker. Where are our heads? What were you thinking? T here is no survey. There is no study to show that more tourists are coming here because of minicars. As a matter of fact, I remember David Dodwell, former Minister, men-tioned (I know I saw a survey, and I was trying to look for it) . . . who said, No, we’r e not interested. We’re not interested. The Bermudians said, No, we’re not interested. The congestion on the street, the environmental impact and particularly the impact on our families. Who is going to care about them? Who is really going to care about th em? So you go on and vote today. You are voting against our people. If you do not believe it is possible, consider it. At least consider it. Was it discussed in caucus? Was it discussed in Cabinet, the impact on our taxi drivers? Or we just felt that we w ere going to just offer another amenity for our tourists to think that they may come here because they can drive a car? Because if that is the case, there must be a lot of cars that are going to be rented. If we believe that tourists want to rent a car, there have to be a lot of cars to be rented. I see the Honourable Member shaking his head. And that cannot be the case, because when they go home we have to deal with the congestion because they will keep co ntinuously coming, continuously coming, continuously coming. Many of you have driven down Bay Street in the Bahamas. It is congested. Is that the way we want it? Do you want congestion so people . . . you cannot get into town now. It takes an hour. You h ave to leave home at five o’clock from Somerset. Do you want to leave at three now because of 6,000 people coming out of Dockyard? I am not saying they all will, but just think of the possibility because there is no limit on the [number] of these vehicles. There is no limit. Ever y294 25 November 2016 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly body can rent one. Everybody can. There is no limit as far as giving licences out. And they will be all parked up there because that is where the market will be. They will open up the little stores up there, stor efronts in Dockyard, put their sign up, Rent a minicar, a minicar or bike. They will come down the street. There has to be an impact. So, did you think about the impact on our families? No. No, they did not. They really did not think about it, because they really do not car e about the average Bermudian. They really do not care! Honourable Member, maybe you can stand up and tell me how, where are those taxi drivers going to be driving if they cannot get a job? If you gave me a choice between . . . I rent a car when I go overs eas. I do. I really do. That is because it is available. So, if there is availability for a tourist to rent one of these things, do you not think that they will, at the end of the day, rent one of these vehicles? For every action, there is a reaction. That is what Newton said. And the reaction will be on our people, the very people whom we say that we care about. So, I am asking Members on that side, maybe rise and report progress and think about, think about this. Have you really made the right choice? Hav e you really made the right choice? Yes, there will be people on that side of the House who will benefit. The Ho nourable Member from [constituency] 22 will get more insurance.
[Inaudible interjection]
Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Possible. [Inaudible interjection]
Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: It is quite obvious. We have to insure them. We have to insure them. I heard the Honourable Member in the [brief on the] Bill say we have to insure them. I do not have an insurance company.
[Inaudible interjection]
Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Maybe the Honourable Member should not be voting. As a matter fact, the Honourable Member should probably not be present-ing the Bill. He wants to drive my colleague out from the legal part, but he does not want to drive out his part with insurance. The Honourable Member is going to have an impact on his business. And the Honourable Member is going to vote. Do you think that is right? I do not think it is right either.
The Hon. Dr. E. Grant GibbonsNo materiality. Hon. Wayne L. Fur bert: Materiality? Well, you have got too much; you do not think there is materiality. [Inaudible interjection] Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: As an accountant, Mr. Speaker, we go through . . . sometimes we do audits. And we say that the scope is, you …
No materiality.
Hon. Wayne L. Fur bert: Materiality? Well, you have got too much; you do not think there is materiality. [Inaudible interjection] Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: As an accountant, Mr. Speaker, we go through . . . sometimes we do audits. And we say that the scope is, you look over $100,000 or maybe $1 million because the scope is too small. But you are benefiting from $50,000. It is still a part of it, you know. Because the materiality, we say, we call it “materiality.” We are not going to look at anything under $50,000. But I am st ill having an impact on my business because it benefits the directors and shar eholders of a company. So I would ask the Honourable Member whether he will excuse himself at the end of the day when we do vote on this.
[Inaudible interjection]
Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: I can probably look at other Members on this side that it will have an impact on their business, going forward. But that is small co mpared to, how are we going to take care of our people? Because I always think about that first. My motto in life is, if I can help somebody as I pass along, my living would not be in vain. It is not about how I am going to try to discourage and how I am going to impact negatively on their lives. This Bill will have a negative impact on our citizens and on the taxi d rivers, going forward. If we do not think that is . . . even if it affects one person, Mr. Speaker, it is one person too many. We are not supposed to be here bringing legislation to have a negative impact on an yone. But we are here to try to improve their lives. As a former Minister of Transport, I remember a time, Mr. Speaker, when, as a matter of fact, bus drivers were trying to drive taxis. And at that time, the director said, Well, they cannot drive taxis. I said, They can’t? And I wrote to the Attorne y General at the time, and the Attorney General told me, Yes, the director is right. I literally, Mr. Speaker, I sat in my chair and I took the book up like that and I looked at it, and said, We cannot be passing laws that are going to hurt our people. Fortunately, we had a more senior Attorney General at the time, drafting. She said, Minister, I a dvised them several years ago that they can drive, b ecause as long as you give them time between driving a taxi and a bus, they can drive it. What is wrong with that? So why? So then now they can drive taxis and drive buses, depending on the period of time. Going on vacation gives them time to drive the taxi. I remember the time, again in Transport, a young gentleman came to me and said, Minister. He cannot get his job back because he had been caught on drugs. And I said, Oh? Well, how long have you been out? He said, I think it was, About six years . So I went to his director and said, I have a simple question. Do you believe in redemption? Do you believe a man can change?
Bermuda House of Assembly And he looked at me like, What do you mean, Minister? and said, Redemption? I mean, Do you really believe a man can change his ways? That gentleman, Mr. Chester, who runs up the street holding his fists up, Mr. Speaker, that is th e gentleman I am talking about. So, my whole philosophy . . . and I am now thinking that each Member took a pledge to help pe ople. We took an oath. We did not take an oath that we are going to ruin lives. And that is what you really want to do on that side? You should be ashamed of yourself. You should be taken out tomorrow! We should not be waiting a whole year to take you out. A year is too long because you are hurting too many people. You are going to hurt more people over the next year. I am not even going to talk about the airport coming up, whenever it comes up. But we are hurting more people! I am asking the One Bermuda Alliance, if you did not hear it from your side, then hear it from me. Search your heart and not your head and ask yourself the question, What impact will you have if you pass this Bill today? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. thank you, Honourable Member. The Chair will now recognise the Honourable Member, the Honourable and Learned Member from constituency 25. MP Pettingill, you have the floor.
Mr. Mark J. PettingillThank you, Mr. Speaker. I certainly agree with the Honourable Member who just took his seat that for every action there is a reaction. I think sometimes what we find in Parliament is that for every action there is an overreaction. [Laughter]
Mr. Mark J. PettingillAnd maybe that is just the p olitical approach of presenting polar positions. But I have to say this, hand on heart, I think that the Honourable Member knows this: I certainly fundament ally care about things that impact on our people —all our people, you know. And it is …
And maybe that is just the p olitical approach of presenting polar positions. But I have to say this, hand on heart, I think that the Honourable Member knows this: I certainly fundament ally care about things that impact on our people —all our people, you know. And it is not always an easy position with regard to how you adopt som ething. We saw that on Monday night with regard to the Casino Gaming Bill, which impacted on my own bus iness. A s a matter of fact, my honourable and learned colleague and business partner, maybe we will go into the minicar business now. Or perhaps we will advertise 1 -800-MINICAR -ACCIDENT, and then we can sue the Honourable Member for the insurance value of it.
[Laughter]
Mr. Mark J. PettingillSo we will find a way. We will think. It might present an opportunity; I do not know. I hope not, because I do not want to see people getting hurt. But I have looked at this. And my understanding is this. I understand and verily believe that the taxi …
So we will find a way. We will think. It might present an opportunity; I do not know. I hope not, because I do not want to see people getting hurt. But I have looked at this. And my understanding is this. I understand and verily believe that the taxi drivers were consulted. Certainly, I saw the reports in a press release where they have had discussion. Maybe it came later than it should have. And I am a great believer that there should be proper consultation and discussion. But I also have a concern that we get into the basis of overreaction and over -consultation. Again, part of the problem in the gaming industry . . . it dragged and dragged and dragged because we were over-consulting, too much quagmire in the way. And ther e comes a stage, Mr. Speaker, when one has to sit down and look at it and say, in the balance— in the balance of a new idea—What is the best action to take? I like the safety factor here, that it is safer than a bike. I know, growing up as a kid in school particularly, and then later on, I cannot even count, Mr. Speaker (now Deputy Speaker taking the seat) . . .
[Mrs. Suzann Roberts -Holshouser, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair]
Mr. Mark J. PettingillI cannot even count, Madam Deputy Speaker, the number of ti mes that I stopped to help tourists who were, you know, smashed up on the roads, injured. And, tragically, there were even a couple of fatal accidents involving tourists. Because on the bikes they tended to gravitate to going …
I cannot even count, Madam Deputy Speaker, the number of ti mes that I stopped to help tourists who were, you know, smashed up on the roads, injured. And, tragically, there were even a couple of fatal accidents involving tourists. Because on the bikes they tended to gravitate to going on to the wrong side of the road, whereas in a car, you know, with the steering wheel on a particular side or in a v ehicle like this, there tends to be that higher degree of safety factor. And quite sensibly, people like to have the idea of a little bit of freedom to drive around and go where they want to go and see the things they want to see and explore on their own, not necessarily in a taxi all day. I know, going to a place like St. Bart s (we went a few years ago) that is a smaller island than here. It does very, very well in the tourism industry. And you get right out there and you rent a car, and they roll out with you for your minicar with these kind of little totes, and you drive around in them and they are really neat. And you see them all over the place. I think that the idea of, if we get crowded up on the road because there are so many of these cars out there that we are having to rent out, and it is tak-ing us longer to get places . . . we can all sit back and smile because that means we are making buckets of money, you know, as a country. So, it would not be a bad sign if that is, in fact, something that is going on. But I think when I talk about action and then overreaction, I do not see that in passing this Bill, in my assessment, that by next week, next month or even next year we are suddenly going to have a plethora of minicars on the road. 296 25 November 2016 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly Mr. Speaker, you are back. It seems to be substitution day, for me.
[Hon. K. H. Randol ph Horton, Speaker, in the Chair] [Laughter]
Mr. Mark J. PettingillWelcome back. Mr. Speaker, I do not see that we are sudde nly going to have this horde of minicars on there. The truth of the matter is I think there is risk involved in this as far as the business goes. It looks to me like a sensible way …
Welcome back. Mr. Speaker, I do not see that we are sudde nly going to have this horde of minicars on there. The truth of the matter is I think there is risk involved in this as far as the business goes. It looks to me like a sensible way to provide an option to tourists who want to come here. And the taxi drivers seem to get that, I am sure. We will be telling these people, Look. You cannot get in these things and drive drunk, because w e really are getting to zero tolerance for that, like anywhere else in the world. You know, they do not want to be doing that with regard to their own licences and being arrested here. So they have to be aware of all of those types of warnings with regard to what they can do. In the evening they are going out for dinner or a drink or whatever, they are going to take a taxi, as they always do. But, you know, this is something that is great. I mean, these things, when you really put it in perspective . . . Every now and then, I drive my mother’s car. She is 87 years old and has got the smallest type of car that you can get on the road, just passed her l icence again last week at her birthday. And I always say to her, I laugh, sometimes when I drive, I say, This car is like driving a golf cart. You know, it feels really tiny to me, and it has kind of got this hum to it. It is like a golf cart. So these veh icles are, by analogy, not much different than a golf cart. I mean, they really are small, little runarounds. And I think that some of our tourists who want to come here, looking at that, saying, You go to the hotel. You can rent one of these things (it is going to be one more added little thing). You know what? That would be kind of cool. Bermuda still has these hidden- away little beaches and coves and parks and tribe roads and things like that to go and explore. And we can get in there, pull out a map and go off the two of us on our own and feel pretty safe, and go and explore. You know? Honeymooners will li ke that. Older couples will like that. If they do not want to get on a bike, then this is an option. For me, and I have done this, I have gone away . . . I did this is Positano in Italy. I was thrilled to see that you could rent a bike. My wife and I rent ed a bike and went down the Amalfi Coast a bit. And it was just a great time. I could have rented a car as well. And so, I think the people will take up those options. I think people like having a bike. But let us put it in perspective. If you take the fact that we had 6,000 bikes on the road in the heyday of tourism, and now we have half that number, and we are trying to build back our tourism, and the numbers are moving in the right direction, now is the time, as the scale starts to slide up, to say, What can we do to provide those extra amenities? That is why we came along with the whole boutique amenity casino thing for resorts. It is just one more thing that people say, Well, yeah, I’d like to be there and have a go at that. I’d like to be there and have the opportunity to do this. I’d like to get out on the water and rent a jet -ski. We had that debate a few years ago when we did jet -skis. I remember sitting on the other side with certain criticisms coming into play because of things that the Government was passing. And I was thinking, well, we have got to do these types of things. We had to allow casino gaming for the [cruise ships] to come into town, to provide that amenity for the tourists who were on the [ships]. And the Government on the other side had to support that. They saw it, and people on our side jumped up and down and said, They are g oing to stay on the boat. They won’t come into town. This is us now talking, but what was then the UPB, or I was independent or BDA, whatever it was at the time. But, you know, I remember those comments being made. And the response from the other side was, No, no, we have to do things to provide it or they are just not going to come! So now the debate is just here in reverse. I remember sitting, listening to it and going, Come on, guys. You know, the fact of the matter is that we have got to think a little bit out of the box. And the truth of the matter is that we tend to be overtly conservative and overtly over reactive. You know, I would name other things, but it is like . . . and I have seen the conservatism around gay marriage, by way of example, which is going through the courts right now—extreme pushback on a conservative front, which is almost special to Bermuda. And it comes to other things, and we still have this tendency. Even the younger of us and young people can be ultimately conservative —Oh, we don’t want to do that, we don’t want to do that. And what happens is, Mr. Speaker, my assessment, people go somewhere else. They like to have an option. In t his day and age, people like to have an option. This is the day and age of shopping where you go on your laptop or whatever, like I have here. You push it in, you can go through a whole host of things and say, Well, I’d like to look at that. I’m on eBay. I want to have a vari ety, and I want it at my fingertips, and I want to be able to do it. So when you land on our shores, and I have heard this, What? You cannot rent a car? We have heard that for ages. You cannot go into a casino. You cannot, you know, come here as a same- sex couple and get married. You cannot do all of these things. It does not make us attractive as a member of the international community. It simply does not. I believe that people get put off by one thing as it is reflecting an attitude t o everything else.
Bermuda House of Assembly So there is an action and an overreaction. They look at it and say, What? Bermuda? I can’t go in a casino in a hotel? Man, let me see where else I can go. What? Bermuda doesn’t allow gay people to get married? I don’t like that. I’m not going to go there. What type of people are those? That’s too conserv ative for me. I can’t rent a minicar in Bermuda? I’m going to St. Barts. Let alone the other things. You know, it reflects on, You can’t get here what you can get a nywhere else in the world. Now, I think that we have got to be mindful. We have to be mindful about how we do it. And I think that has been well -thought -out. That is why it is a 150 cc thing. That is why it is a small vehicle. And guess what? Somebody has to service those vehicles. Somebody has to keep them clean. Somebody has to be there on call -out. It is a job provider! It is a job pr ovider. They are not going to be all parked in one place. This creates work for people. It is going to cr eate work. It mus t do. By the very nature of something being a vehicle, it is going to create work. So, Mr. Speaker, I see there are a lot of pluses here that outweigh the potential minuses. There are concerns, you know, all round. I can see what the concerns are. But in the balance I arrive at this: I think these are the types of things we have got to give it a go. And it matters not that if the majority of people say, I don’t want to go to Bermuda and rent a car, but there is that minority of people who do, the 30 per cent to 40 per cent, or whatever it is. Well, provide for them! It is like so many other things. The people who want to come here who do not want to rent a car —do not rent one! That is an easy answer for you. But you need to have it for the people who do. Just like so many other things, you need to allow for the people who want something, and it is their right to have that. The people who want to game should go and game. The people who want to get married should go and get married. The people who want to be able to do those things in a modern soci ety, they should be provided for them. And the people who decide, I want to rent a minicar instead of having a taxi driver all day, or instead of having a motorbike, which I have never ridden in my life, or a moped, which I am scared to death of . . . this is an option for me to spend money in Bermuda, to drive out to a place in Somerset or in St. George's from your place in Hamilton. Let’s find a route. Let’s go down there, and let’s go to lunch at Blackbeard’s. The business drives itself there. That is the type of knock -on effect. You know, you may have other people who are not going to go and do that or are not necessarily going to explore the Island, explore all of the fun things to do, because they would do it if they had this type of thing available to them. But let us get real, because this is where I think we tend to overreact. As I say, by doing this we are not going to suddenly have a massive car park, like at City Hall, full of minicars and 5,000 tourists de-scending in a line to get the minicars and drive them all over our roads. That is not how it is going to happen. And it is certainly not going to happen like that overnight, were it to happen. We have to see it for what it is. It is a sensible and reasona ble tourism amenity —that is what it is —that is attractive and will provide that needed additional opportunity. And we need to think along the lines of that with so many ot her things that our competition does that we do not do. So, I support it. I see the concerns. I have heard the concerns. I have heard . . . I am satisfied on this one: There has been appropriate consultation, and rightly so. You know, I do not see it doing an ything, in the balance, but doing something good for us because of the positives in the balance that exist in passing this legislation. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
[Desk thumping]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Thank you, Honourable Member. It looks like we are right on 12:30. Good ti ming there, Honourable Member.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThe House is adjourned to 2:00 pm. [Gavel] Proceedings suspended at 12:30 pm Proceedings resumed at 2:00 pm [Hon. K.H. Randolph Horton, Speaker, in the Chair] BILL SECOND READING MOTOR CAR AMENDMENT (NO. 2) ACT 2016 [Continuation of debate thereon]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerWe will resume the debate on Order No. 2, the Motor Car Amendment (No. 2) Act 2016. Any Honourable Member care to speak? The Chair will recognise the Honourable Member from constituency 20, MP Susan Jackson. You have the floor.
Ms. Susan E. JacksonI would like to just take a few minutes to comment on the Motor Car Amendment (No. 2) Act. 298 25 November 2016 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly I guess this is my turn to somewhat say I am a little bit offended by what my honourable colleague …
I would like to just take a few minutes to comment on the Motor Car Amendment (No. 2) Act. 298 25 November 2016 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly I guess this is my turn to somewhat say I am a little bit offended by what my honourable colleague across the floor said when he positioned this opportunity for Bermudians in a negative light. So I want to just backtrack a little bit and comment on that, from the other side of the fence. I see considerable opportunity here. Not only is it an opportunity for new business and the evolution of livery rentals for our visitors on the Island, but it a lso creates a number of other amenities that can be made available to visitors and loc als alike on the I sland. And certainly, you know, I think about some of the areas of Bermuda that we cannot reach via taxi. I think about the fact that if we were having little minicars that it might even offer opportunities for fur-ther explorations into t he infrastructure of our Island that we may be able to take these vehicles on, let us say, the tracks. We might be able to create an environment on our tribe roads and tracks where tourists can, maybe for a fee, have an opportunity to go. They could even be guided; they could be historical, they could be adventurous and exploratory. So there are different ways in which we can create new opportunities. It is up to each one of us as Bermudians on the Island to keep our minds open about something that is new for the Island and to speak up and take a stand and create opportunities that could certainly complement this new initiative. I would also like to comment on the fact that I believe that there have been surveys conducted, in particular by the Bermuda Touri sm Authority, where they have asked people, If there was anything that you could add to your experience here in Bermuda what would it be? And that there has been a measurable response that has said, We would very much like to have some form of vehicle in w hich we can manoeuvre around the land. So, clearly, the motorcycles have had their lifecycle —no pun intended —and they certainly have reached maturity as an amenity on the Island. I think many people around the world realise some of the risks involved, et c etera, and would like to be in a safer vehicle. So the idea of having a minicar that is pr otected, that I understand is not particularly fast, would be a very nice little way for our tourists to get around the Island. And as my colleague before me mentione d, this is the kind of thing that people might use if they just simply want to explore or maybe they would like to just go to the beach and it is a quick hop from their guesthouse to the beach and back and they would use this as a short runabout. But if th ere were any times when the visitor would very much like to have a tour, would like to have some explanation about the Island, would like to take a longer journey and go to places that they may not know where they are going, then a taxi would certainly fil l that void. And of course we know, given the accommodation of our taxis, when our visitors would like to get together as a larger group, as a family or as friends that may be four and six in count, [then they] like to get into a taxi and use that for longer journeys or to go to social events in the evening and such. So I believe that there is an easy complement between the taxi industry and the idea of livery companies offering these minicars for our tourists to get around. Now, Mr. Speaker , I lived up in Dockyard for almost three years, and that gave me an opportunity to observe the behaviour of our tourists that are arri ving by cruise ship. And I have to confess that the large majority of those visitors [who] only have a short per iod of time in Bermuda ar e more than happy to get into a taxi, a minibus. Some get on the public buses, but they are leaving and travelling in droves from Doc kyard in private transportation for the most part. Now the idea of a guest getting off of a cruise ship and ha ving to go through the training and . . . what could be a somewhat time- consuming procedure to rent a minicar would probably work against them. They would prefer to jump into a taxi and head for their tours for the day, et cetera. The other side of it, while living in Dockyard and walking about and listening to the taxi operators and the minibuses is that, you know, to be honest, a lot of the cruise ship visitors are interested in going to the beach. And with the beach comes sand and salt water and some of the things that, you know, we would say that our taxi operators are not completely keen to have, especially for what ends up being a re latively small fare. So the idea that if there was the adventurous cruise ship passenger that wanted to get to the beach, and that is all that they wanted to do for that journey, that the idea of them hopping into a minicar if they wanted to take that route and go through that extra effort, that they probably would be . . . it would be an amicable arrangement between themselves and the t axis. And, as I mentioned earlier, the taxi drivers are the first places where the groups go when they want six, eight people to go on a half -day or full -day tour of the Island. This is the way they go. It is convenient, they get the full story, they get t he history, they get to meet with locals —that is a huge and completely different experience than anything you are go-ing to get in this little rented minicar. So I would like to create a distinction. And I believe that the taxi industry is innovative enoug h and certainly a sophisticated organisation or group of entrepreneurs that will be able to create a clear distinction between the value of their experience in their product, which would be the [tours] in particular, versus popping into one of these little minicars to scoot about. I also would like to just mention as well that for locals on the Island I see that there is a clear opportunity for these livery minicars to provide an oppor-tunity for there to be, on occasion, another piece of transportation that is available. So I know that many
Bermuda House of Assembly people on the Island have family and friends that come to visit on vacation. Bermudians and residents get up and go to work every day, and sometimes it is difficult to have the kind of flexibility that our visitors might like us to have. And, you know, the buses during the day are available and taxis are there, but sometimes it is nice for our houseguests to be able to say that on, you know, one or two days out of the 10 days that they may be visiting that they would like to just have a little minicar that they can rent to get them . . . just for the quick little hops around Bermuda that they would like to take. And that certainly can create a level of relief for the hosts, the Bermudian residents that are oftentimes occupi ed with their one car per family. So, you know, as a parent I certainly can sympathise with having college children coming home for a short period of time and they want to just simply go over to their friend’s house and back. And working full time it is ve ry difficult to sometimes share the car. And the idea that for one or two days it would be possible for a young adult to be able to rent this car to get to their friend’s house and back would certainly be an added amenity to the local community as well as for our tourism industry. So, I see that the livery minicars do have benefits, not only for our visitors, but that they can serve a purpose for the locals as well. In closing I just again want to reiterate that this is a fantastic amenity to add to our tourism pro duct, and I certainly welcome it. I am expecting and looking forward to there being very strict guidelines and regulations around the minicars, that we will maintain them as being distinctly different from any other type of vehicle on the Island in such a way that they will not directly compete with any of the other forms of transportation on the Island that could potentially feel as though they are in direct competition. B ecause I do not believe that these small minicars are a competitive factor for much of the tourism industry, but instead are a positive amenity. Thank you, Mr. Speaker .
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAll right. Thank you. Thank you, Ho nourable Member . The Chair will now recognise the Honourable and Learned Member from constituency 31, MP Shawn Crockwell. You have the floor.
Mr. Shawn G. CrockwellThank you, Mr. Speaker . Mr. Speaker , I am pleased to rise and lend my support to this piece of legislation. Mr. Speaker , I was the Minister of Transport at the time when this legislation was being drafted, and it is some time in coming. We were looking …
Thank you, Mr. Speaker . Mr. Speaker , I am pleased to rise and lend my support to this piece of legislation. Mr. Speaker , I was the Minister of Transport at the time when this legislation was being drafted, and it is some time in coming. We were looking to bring this legislation earlier this year, and for various reasons it has been put off. But one of the reasons (and I think a great deal of due diligence has been put into it) was that because there was a particular model that had been identified and a particular entrepreneur who was interested in this particular industry, that that vehicle was brought down, the police actu ally inspec ted it and drove it and gave its stamp of approval on the vehicle, on its safety, and on its suitability on our roads. Mr. Speaker , I had the opportunity to actually drive the vehicle as well and see it. And like other Members have said, it is a small vehicle, a vehicle that could fit two individuals. In fact, the question I had was whether or not it could transport with two individuals a set of golf clubs, and it could not. In order for them to take a set of golf clubs, the passenger would have . . . there could be no passenger in that particular seat, you would have to put the golf clubs in the passenger side seat. And in the back, again, there was maybe enough space to fit a bag— one bag—of groceries, Mr. Speaker . But what it does provide for individuals who are concerned about their safety in relation to a m oped . . . and I will tell you, as the Minister of Tourism at the time, and even now, when I saw tourists, they would ask me about renting a bike. And I apologise to the livery owners, but my advice was not to do it — every single time—because the slightest of accidents could ruin a vacation, Mr. Speaker . I am not a big fan of bikes because you are so exposed, the individual riding that bike. If that indivi dual is in an accident, then the exposure is so great. Even if it is not a high- speed accident the amount of injury and damage that a person can endure on a bike, Mr. Speaker , is great. And so imagine going on your dream vacation, you have spent many months, if not years, saving for it. You come down, you are on the bike and it is raining and you are trying to take one of our difficult corners. You have an accident and that will destroy your vacation and, in some cases, as we have heard already today, Mr. Speaker , we have seen too many fatali ties from our tourists on the bikes. So, in my view, having an alternative, Mr. Speaker , which will provide more safety to our tourists and allow them to travel around the Island in greater comfort . . . these vehicles are covered. So if it is rai ning you do not have to deal with . . . imagine going to dinner and you happen to come into a summer show-er, Mr. Speaker , and you are on a moped. Again, it creates a great deal of inconvenience. So, I think we have got to look at this as trading the moped for a more modern way of transport ation. It is not adding to, in my view . . . we are hearing this argument about congestion. In my view, it is not as if we are going to see all of the mopeds remain on the road and we are now going to add these quadracycles to i t. I see it as these new quadracycles r eplacing the bikes that are currently on the road. But even on the congestion issue, before I left the Ministry I knew that we had lost about 10,000 v ehicles on the road. I do not know if that figure has 300 25 November 2016 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly changed, but there was a reduction as a result of people leaving the Island over the last, you know, 10 years, Mr. Speaker . We have seen a reduction as it relates to cars and bikes in the tune of 10,000 vehi-cles less. And I think all of us remember when we really saw congestion in this country, Mr. Speaker , in the early 2000s when you had to get up . . . I used to live in Somerset. And if I did not leave Somerset by seven o’clock, Mr. Speaker , I was going to be late. If you left at seven o’clock you would get right thr ough, no pro blem, and you had time for breakfast and coffee be-cause you would get in at 7:30, Mr. Speaker . But leave at 7:15 and you were just about getting to work at nine o’clock. There was that much congestion. And we complained back then. We did not li ke the fact that there was all this congestion. And as a result . . . now, the congestion was an indicator of success, you know. As someone said there is always a cause and an effect or to every action there is a r eaction. Well, when there is booming busin ess in this country, when international business is doing well, when tourism is doing well, guess what? You will have congestion. You cannot have your cake and eat it too. So now we do not have the congestion, or there is less congestion. But guess what? B usiness is not as great, so people are complaining because there have been job losses. Well, because people have left, Mr. Speaker , that is a corollary of that. So, yes, there may be some congestion, but we welcome it because that will be an indicator of the jurisdiction doing well as a business and, in this case, as a tourism jurisdiction. Now, Mr. Speaker , the Honourable Member from constituency 6 who gave a very passionate speech . . . I know him very well. He is a good friend of mine. I will say that h e is consistent because he had been speaking to me about this when I was the Minister. He called me and he said he was against it. He was against rental cars when he called me and he said . . . you know, and this was when the Honourable Member will recall, I believe the BTA [Bermuda Tourism Authority] came out and made a statement that they were interested in introducing rental cars and the Honourable Member called me and said, Minister, don’t do it. I don’t support it. This will go against the taxi industr y. So he is being consistent. But I know the Honourable Member well enough to know that he is a seasoned politician. He understands politics very well, and he will see a polit ical opportunity when it presents itself. He knows very well that every taxi driver that is driving around right now has [the radio set] on 105.1. He knows that, Mr. Speaker. Okay? And he also knew that there were taxi drivers in the Gallery, Mr. Speaker , when he was on his feet. Okay? And he also understands, Mr. Speaker , the voting bloc that that industry has. Okay? So I was not surprised. It was a good speech. I will put it in the Honourable Member ’s top five, Mr. Speaker . But this is not competing, in my view, Mr. Speaker . And I will say this, I am not going to get into the consultation, you know. I was not part of the pre or post-consultation on this. But I think the Minister made a mistake when he introduced this as rental cars. That was a mistake. I do not care what the specifications are in the legislation, a taxi driver hears “rental car,” his antenna is going to go up just by the classification of that term. I do not even like the fact that it is called “minicar” in this legislation. What I was going to do, I was going to call it exactly what it is, a “quadracycle.” That is what I would have called it. And we were looking at the legislation to create another category called “quadracycle” because the whole connotation of a rental car or a minicar causes anxiety to individuals whose business, whose livelihood, is in a taxi or dri ving vehicles. But this is not in competition with the taxi dri vers, Mr. Speaker . Yes, there might be some loss of business. You might have a husband and wife that come here and they decide they want to rent a qua dracycle that carries two. And they may go out to di nner and on this evening, had that not existed, maybe they would have caught a taxi. But at the end of the day, it is the Government’s job to create more volume—the Government and the BTA’s job. And the Government did its job by creating the BTA, Mr. Speaker . And now the BTA must bring greater volume to the jurisdiction so that there should be sufficient demand for quadracycles, for taxis, for minibuses. That is what we n eed to do, and we are on that path, Mr. Speaker , so that everybody can be able to get their share of the business. The Government cannot be in the business of protecting industry. It needs to be smart enough to make sure that it is diversifying enough, Mr. Speaker , so that there is sufficient competition. But you cannot stifle progress in the name of protecting industry. Now, to the livery owners, my view is this is directly in competition to them. So they need to adjust and look at similar types of vehic les that they can i mport and rent as well. Go get a licence and compete. You know, I think of the cell phone industry, okay? If you have a cell phone company right now that is still selling the flip cell phone, they are not going to sell any product. You k now, maybe the Honourable Member, from constituency 1, I understand he likes those. But everybody is buying iPhones, the more modified . . . I mean it is amazing to me. As soon as a new iP hone comes out, people will go and get rid of their per-fectly good i Phone and upgrade to the new and latest technology, Mr. Speaker . Well, the telecom industry had to adjust to the new technology that was out there. Same thing. We have evolved and now we have electric vehicles. Now we have these vehicles that are covered, they are more safe, they are more enjoyable to drive, Mr. Speaker . And so whoever is in this industry, and I believe it is the livery cycle indusBermuda House of Assembly try, they are going to have to have a look at it. In fact, when we first introduced it, when this first came to light, they should have started to investigate then to see how they could adjust to their business, Mr. Speaker . So I do not think it is going to have much of a deleterious impact on the taxi industry. But if you are out there renting bikes . . . and I th ink the rental of bikes has been under siege for years anyway. We heard figures today from 6,000 down to 2,000. They are declining for a reason. Not just in numbers. Peo-ple see the risk. We have very [winding] roads, Mr. Speaker , and you know . . . in fact , I had an exper ience just the other day when I was driving around by Mid Ocean Golf Course coming down by Paynter’s Road. As I came around the corner there was a tourist, a guy, he had no shirt on, riding his moped and he was on my side of the road. I was going around a corner and he was right there, Mr. Speaker . I mean I was frightened to death that I was going to hit this guy and possibly kill him, but he was able to swerve and get around. And yes, I heard people talk about, Well, pe ople are going to dri ve on the wrong side of the road. They will have to adjust. I know there is no one in here that has driven in the United States and at one point forgot they have to be on the right side. Let us be honest. No one has driven away and said, Oh, my goodness, I ’ve got to go on the left . . . or go on the right (whatever it is, Mr. Speaker , in the States). It happens. In fact, my honourable friend is not here, but I was in Vermont sometime ago with him and he was driving a car in front of me, a vintage car, and w e went to pick it up and he was driving it and he was on the wrong side . . . I had to like beep! You know, like you are on the wrong side, mate! We forget. That happens. But let that privilege be taken from us, Mr. Speaker . Let the United States say —and i t is not far - fetched. It is not farfetched. I had a visit from the former US Consul General who had some guests down and he was pushed to the limit because he had to take his guests everywhere. If they wanted to go the beach, he had to take them and drop t hem off and go back to what he had to do and then he had to go pick them up. And then he had to take them to dinner and pick them up. And he came to my office and he said, You know what ? I looked into this because I could not fi gure out why my guests, who are diplomats, who have lived all around the world . . . they have these intern ational driver’s licences, why can’t they drive in Berm uda? And I said, Well, they can’t. And he said, Well, we allow you to drive in our country. There is a standard diplomatic principle called reciprocity. And I am just telling you what he said. This was his thinking, if we allow you to do it in our country, our citizens expect you to allow them to do it in yours. Okay? People can shake their heads. But guess what? It already happened in Massachusetts, Mr. Speaker . It happened in Massachusetts and what was funny is the amount of people who have stopped me after that happened because we know, Mr. Speaker , that we utilise B oston for medical reasons. People go to Boston because it is a close flight. People enjoy the city, and the like.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberShopping.
Mr. Shawn G. CrockwellFor shopping and other things. My daughter loves going to Boston. She has family in Boston, Mr. Speaker , and they will go and rent a car and drive out to their home. The amount of people that stop me because they were so upset and anxious over the fact …
For shopping and other things. My daughter loves going to Boston. She has family in Boston, Mr. Speaker , and they will go and rent a car and drive out to their home. The amount of people that stop me because they were so upset and anxious over the fact that they might not be able to drive when they go to Massachusetts was unbeliev able. I believ e, if my recollection is correct, it was around Cup Match time when that happened. And whenever I was walking around people were stopping me and saying, What are you guys going to do about this? I said, okay. It is the same thing. We want a privilege, but we do not want to extend that same privilege to others when they come here, Mr. Speaker . Now, we have heard people say that the Government does not care. This piece of legislation, as I said, commenced under my remit. But I would say this, I heard that exact same argument when as Mini ster I proposed to create the Bermuda Tourism Author ity, and about all the jobs that were going to be lost, and all sorts of stuff that was going to happen. You would have thought, Mr. Speaker , the world was going to come to an end because we were creating the BTA. In fact, I remember somebody forwarded me a cartoon that someone did of me looking like Donald Trump pointing to somebody saying, You’re fired! Because I am trying to get rid of Bermudian jobs. Well, guess what? No one lost their job, Mr. Speaker . The BTA was formed despite all of the challenges, and today everyone . . . the BTA is like a fabric of our society now. The BTA is part of our everyday vernacular and it is doing well and we are seeing r esults that no one in this House, including myself, and the Government did not anticipate— 16 [per cent], 18 per cent increases in air arrivals! So now it has achieved its objective and we hear no one . . . in fact, on Monday the same Honourable Member from constituency 6 is recommending that the CEO of the Gaming Commission should get the same salary as the CEO of the BTA! I sat there and said, Wow! It is amazing how things change. Now, we have accepted that the salary for the CEO of the BTA must be acceptable and that the CEO of the Gaming Commission should get the same thing. So this is what happens when time goes 302 25 November 2016 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly by and we see exactly how these initiatives will evolve. Now I heard earlier the Shadow Minister of Transport say that his information is that the secondhand cars are still available for taxi drivers. That is not the case. That is not the case, Mr. Speaker . And I have been lobbied to make that change. We were looking at making that change, and I think as a negotiation that was a good deal. Clearly, the BTOA [Bermuda Taxi Owners and Operators Association] came out publicly and was very complimentary towards the current Minister and thought it was a good trade off to be able to bring in second -hand taxis rat her than going through the expense of buying brand- new ones when that time came. So, it is not a case of it being some form of ruse, Mr. Speaker . That is a fact. I was lobbied to make that change as [in] this jurisdiction we are unable to import second- hand vehicles, Mr. Speaker . Now, in relation to the survey, I know that we were going to conduct a more up- to-date survey and I do not know if that happened, because the survey that I was relying on as the Minister was quite old in terms of peoples’ disposit ion—tourists’ disposition —in relation to rental cars. And the numbers that I heard today are around that. I understand that it was no more at least than 50 per cent that were in support. So, there was supposed to be an updated survey, I do not know if that updated survey took place and if it did what the results are. But let me say this. We heard 30 per cent or 40 per cent said that they supported rental cars. We have the wrong view of tourism in this country, and we have had for some time. And I had this debate, and I am sure I have told this story in this House before. I had this debate with my father on gaming and my f ather, who is Seventh Day Adventist, is opposed to it, and here I am, his son, promoting it. So we are having a chat about it and he is sa ying to me, You know, Shawn, I don’t think that gaming in the right way to go and I don’t think this and I don’t think this about gaming. And I said, Daddy, every time you say something about this you start by saying “I.” Tourism is not about what you want ; tourism is about what our guests want. That is what tourism is about. And here in Bermuda for some reason we think about what we want and that is why we have to ask ourselves the question that the former Tourism Minister asked, Dr. Ewart Brown: Are we serious about being in the tourism business? Because this is not about the business of what we want. It is not about our comfort when it comes to tourism. It is about what does our tourist want? Now, if it was all about getting 100 per cent interest, we would not offer anything, Mr. Speaker . Do you think 100 per cent of our tourists go to Crystal Caves? No. Maybe 40 per cent do. Do you think 100 per cent of our tourists go to Horseshoe Beach? No. Quite a few do, though. But if you are having a dinner party, Mr. Speaker , and you invite 10 people to your house, 10 people that you want to come to your house, and 40 per cent of that 10— 4 of the 10—said to you that they do not eat red meat. What are you going to do, Mr. Speaker ? You are going to offer an alternat ive. You are not going to say to that 40 per cent, Well, you can’t come, you’re not welcome because you don’t want to eat my red meat. Of course not. You are going to say, Okay, I am going to accommodate what you want. What do you want? Oh, we eat chicken. Somebody else might have turkey. And so guess what? You are going to have that on your menu and your guests will come in and have a good time and leave and say, I enjoyed my stay at the Speaker’s house. That is how you treat guests. And that is how we have to think about tourism. So, if 3 out of 10 that are coming here say, I would like to jump into a quadracycle, or, I would like to rent something other than a moped, then we have an obligation if we want them to come, to provide it. That is if we are i n the business. That is if we are in the business! So, Mr. Speaker, tomorrow when this Bill is passed and it gets to the Senate and is approved, everything is going to keep going on as it has been going on. Hopefully , though, we will have . . . because I have met tourists who have said, I would like to have the opportunity, if I want to get up at my own conve nience and go to the grocery store, I would like that convenience to do so and not have to do it on a bike. Do it in something that is more safe, something that is more appropriate, Mr. Speaker . And at the end of the day our guests and our tourists would have had a be tter experience. And I think that this is what we should be striving to achieve, to provide the experiences and the amenities that meet th e needs and the desires of our guests. And so I think that this is another step to do that. As you know, I have been on record, Mr. Speak-er, that we have got to get the casinos up and running because that is yet just another amenity. And any ot her ameniti es that we can come up with, Mr. Speaker, we have very innovative Bermudians who can come up with great ideas to augment the experience of our guests. So let us not look at this . . . because som etimes life is always about how you look at things . If you ar e going to look at it as taking something away, then it is going to be a negative. Let us look at this as adding to the experience for our guests, Mr. Speaker. And I think at the end of the day, if we can have our tourists going back home saying, I had a great time, instead of going back home saying, I e njoyed the beach and I enjoyed this, but I had to always get a bus, or I had to rent a taxi, I couldn’t just go when I wanted. I didn’t have that flexibility. If they can go away and have no “buts,” Mr. Speaker, that s hould
Bermuda House of Assembly be our objective, so when tourists leave here they say, I had a fabulous time. Period! And this is just another opportunity to achieve that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker .
[Desk thumping]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAll right. Thank you. Thank you, Ho nourable Member . The Chair will now recognise the Deputy Leader of the Opposition, MP Roban, from constit uency 15. You have the floor.
Mr. Walter H. RobanThank you, Mr. Speaker . Mr. Speaker , perhaps things just do not happen in the right time because perhaps if the Honour able Member in constituency 31 had been the pitchman for this particular Bill, and it had the benefit of coming to the House earlier, we probably would …
Thank you, Mr. Speaker . Mr. Speaker , perhaps things just do not happen in the right time because perhaps if the Honour able Member in constituency 31 had been the pitchman for this particular Bill, and it had the benefit of coming to the House earlier, we probably would not even be here, because I must say he presented a v ery pe rsuasive argument, much better than his successor has been able to do around this up to this point. So I compliment the Honourable Member . I am not sure I agreed with all of the Honourable Member ’s points, but they were persuasive, Mr. Speaker , in how he put it forth. I have to honestly admit that. In that the way he presented the argument around an initiative that he himself had some involv ement with [was] very, very persuasive in the idea that we need to have more choices for our visitors, that it is not always about what necessarily we think, but about what the visitor would like to have as part of their experience and that there may be a need for us to update some of our offerings here because, let us face it, we have been kind of . . . perhaps we were even the pioneers to some degree of the livery cycle as part of the Bermuda experience going back to the 1950s and 1960s. But now, perhaps, it needs to be updated to reflect the different types of tourism opportunities we are trying to accomplish. If I perhaps have just summarised some of what the previous speaker said and, as I said, I thought he presented . . . if I was somebody who did not have my own view on this and was listening for the first time, I would be quite settled with his argu-ment around this. But, Mr. Speaker , I do have some points to make which, perhaps, are reflective of a different view on this particular measure. And I would just like to r emind us kind of where we started, at least from the standpoint of where we on this side start ed. And it started with a Bill that was presented in this House that was called the Motor Act No. 2, I believe. Now, let us remember these Acts . . . you know, I too am a former Tourism Minister. So I understand that these Bills are par for the course of the duties of the Ministry of Transport and the Minister of Transport to bring annually to this House because there are often changes to the transport system for which the Government has responsibility. It happened to me all the time. Just like with Financ ial Services and Finance. There are Bills that come here which are just a part of the normal order of business and must be done, Mr. Speaker . We know that. And in some other areas in Health and other areas there are certain things that are done all the tim e and they are [the] norm. So not necessarily a hard eye by the Legisl ature is put to them because we know this, Mr. Speaker. But part of the challenge we have here, Mr. Speaker , is that this measure came with little information about it coming to us, that this particular type of change was being made to Members of this Legi slature. It came, almost disguised, as a Motor Car Amendment (No. 2) Act, or whatever it was named at the time earlier this year. It was only with the keen eye of the Shadow Minister and other Members of our caucus, in particular the Shadow Minister who sits in constituency 24, that [it was] brought to our attention that, Wait a minute, they’re looking to put . . . as it is referred to as a “minicar.” And so we are saying, What? So, Mr. S peaker , there is almost the impression that the Government was trying to hide this measure under a veil of secrecy and cloak and dagger instead of be very clear as to what they were bringing. It was almost like it was hidden under being a generic, normal -course- of-the-day Bill. And as I said, I speak as a former Tourism Minister, so I understand that comes like that. But that is part of the challenge, why we are here today. And we have had the hills and mountains and vales and all types of other acrimony around this Bill up to this point. It is because the Government seemingly took an approach with it, as even the honourable former minister described, that did not quite settle well with a whole lot of people. That is where we started, Mr. Speaker . So there was not, as was stated by an Ho nourable Member prior, this vast amount of consult ation and feedback. That came after the game got blown up. That is when that came. And we saw a very interesting process of consultation, Mr. Speaker , which seemingly was not actually . . . it was almost like chasing the rabbit after the rabbit had bolted, and you are trying to catch it after you let it out of the cage. Or like it broke out of the cage and you are trying to catch it. The Government did not introduce this measure to the public, to those interested parties, in a manner that was pleasant. Because it looked like they were trying to sneak it under the table, Mr. Speaker , if I can just use that in an informal way. That is why this journey has been taken and this Bill was not passed at an earlier point of this session. So the Minister had to go back and actually . . . beyond the hostile meeting that was dealt with at Warwick Workmans Club, beyond the statements from 304 25 November 2016 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly the BTOA that originally came out, the Minister had to run behind all that and try and bring about a process where people understood what was actually being done, that it was not an effort to be damaging to the taxi drivers, that it was not an attack on people’s livel ihood, it was not in the typical way you h ave seen the OBA deal with some other measures of legislation in this House or to the public, whereas the definition of “consultation” with the One Bermuda Alliance is a very different definition in process than many people have seen at other times. And as my honourable colleague from constituency 33 said, the unprecedented need to have higher levels of security in the House, outside the House, on top of the House, on the street in front of the House . . . that is what we have seen. And so, Mr. Speaker , that is kind of where we started. It was not a very . . . not a good start to an ything. And so with that came all the obvious arguments about impacts. People are concerned about added congestion, and I would be interested to know from the Government . . . and this is a general question about transport which I hope the Government can answer. What has been the real reduction in the number of vehicles on our roads over the past four years? Because, as I recall we have almost as many vehicles on the road, Mr. Speaker , as we have people living in Bermuda. And there has been reference during this debate to a reduced number of vehicles. Ten thousand was one number that has been batted around. And that may be the number, but I would be interested to know, based on reve nue, have we seen a corr esponding reduction in revenue, Mr. Speaker , from l icensing from private vehicles, in particular? Now, there could have also been a reduction . . . and perhaps I am going to ask a question that will be both in bikes and cars, because many of the peo-ple who would have been residing here prior to the recession were also people who used a lot of bikes, as well as cars. So has there been a corresponding reduction in private bikes, private motor bikes, and in private cars over this parti cular four - to five -year per iod while we were in the recession, from I guess 2008/09 to now? Has there been . . . which can be arguably attributable to the reduced population? I would be interested to know just as a general question on transport whether that is, because I recently . . . and because I live in the east I do not have the same experience with travelling in a car as those who live in the west. I have not had to deal with some of what the Honourable Member in constitue ncy 31 described as the congestion of having to get up 5:00 in the morning or 7:00 in the morning to be able to make sure he gets to town at 9:00. I have not had that experience. But I would be interested to know if that pattern has changed in recent years, because, certainly, I do not see any difference in the town here, in Hamilton, with the daily traffic. It still seems the same as it was before for me. And coming from the east, and those of us li ving in the east know that it is slightly different. We have seen congestion build up over time coming from the east, and it does not take any less or more time now for me to come from the east than it did five years ago, the same 10 minutes or so. I can almost, you know, run myself on a clock and know that if I get out of my house at 6:00, at 6:10 I am in the middle of town. I do not even have to have a watch. I can just know that is pretty much how it goes irrespective. And I know people from the west have a bit of a different challenge. But I would be interested to know from a data standpoint has there been a lower congestion pattern coming from the west as well. And I am talking about . . . not anecdotal. Does the Ministry have information on how that is changed? Because congestion is an issue for Bermudians. It is a reason why the water . . . having the ferries was moved to be changed so many years ago and we added new ferries and the ferry system was advanced as an alternative to travelling the roads to deal with the congestion issue. That has, obviously, evolved over time, but that was the original premise of adding new ferries to the transportation system in Bermuda. So, I would be interested to know because this congestion issue is serious for locals. And even to the argument that was put about . . . well, we as Bermudians can have objections to certain things in tourism, but we are not the ones who they are trying to please. We are not the ones who the tourism industry is catering to. But I would argue . . . and I am not trying to beat up anybody on this argument. I am just presenting another point of view, Mr. Speaker , that —
[Inaudible interjection]
Mr. Walter H. RobanWell, Bermudians are the par tners in this tourism experience. They actually are the people that we rely on to assure that a visitor has a good experience in Bermuda. And that comes with making sure that Bermudians feel good about being in Bermuda. If Bermudians are stressed and aggravated …
Well, Bermudians are the par tners in this tourism experience. They actually are the people that we rely on to assure that a visitor has a good experience in Bermuda. And that comes with making sure that Bermudians feel good about being in Bermuda. If Bermudians are stressed and aggravated and dissatisfied with their experience at home, that is going to exude to the visitors who come here. And that could eventually end in a sense of hostility and resentfulness to the visitor who is coming and imposing on us, and we are being forced to take on all these amenities that we traditionally were not comfortable with to satisfy them. I think we have to be mindful of that. So w hen we talk about the amenities and whether Bermudians like them or not, it is not just about that. I think it is a bit more complicated than that, Mr. Speaker . It is about Bermudians feeling comfortable with what Bermuda is. And when we are com-fortable with our own experience in Bermuda we exude that comfort and happiness and peace and tra nBermuda House of Assembly quillity and welcome- ness to our visitors. That is how it is. So we are partners in this experience. So, if we like and are proud of what amenities we have, we will p romote them ourselves to our visitors. It is unfortunate that we do have to have a bit more of a cautious approach to the livery cycle experience because that was not always the case. The rental of the livery cycle was something that we all kind of promoted as being a part of the Bermuda experience. Those of us who have gone away to university and invited friends down here, one of the things we would do is tell our friends, Yeah, you can come and rent a bike and get around just like I do, you know. That was part of the thing, Mr. Speaker . I am sure you, as a young college student, did the same for your friends when you invited them around. I know it was not that long ago, Mr. Speaker , so I know you remember.
[Laughter and inaudible interjections]
Mr. Walt er H. RobanThank you, Mr. Speaker . So, that is what we all did at one point. Now, it is not the same expression that we do now. We would not necessarily encourage the same thing now. And I get that. Because things have changed, the exper ience of riding a livery …
Thank you, Mr. Speaker . So, that is what we all did at one point. Now, it is not the same expression that we do now. We would not necessarily encourage the same thing now. And I get that. Because things have changed, the exper ience of riding a livery cycle is different than it was when many of us were just a little younger. And I too, like you, Mr. Speaker , I am not that . . . you know, I am not that old, so I do remember having the exper ience and I do remember having encouraged my friends to do the same thing when they came here. But I know that now, perhaps, I would not do the same thing as easily, particularly if I did not think they were good riders. I might be a little bit more cautious. It can be accepted that the experience on the road has changed for everybody in Bermuda in recent decades, so we approach it very differently. But that is because of congestion. So the concern about congestion and the impact that these new vehicles might have is a real one. And it cannot be ignored and should not be ignored. But, again, if the Government and its partners in this effort . . . and a lot of rumours always float around as to who was actually wanting to introduce these [minicars], Mr. Speaker , and what the relationships were in getting this done, why it was done so quietly and secretly. All of those are questions. And when you cultivate suspicion around an issue, Mr. Speaker , people often r espond to it in a certain way. And that, unfortunately, is how this issue has been pushed. S o people are going to rely on the arguments about congestion, the env ironmental concerns. Now, I did hear something, Mr. Speaker , and I can stand to be corrected by the corresponding Mini ster, about whether these are environmentally friendly vehicles. I h eard there was some talk about them ini-tially being electric or perhaps being a . . . but I am not so sure.
[Inaudible interjection]
Mr. Walter H. RobanOkay. So there is going to be either option. But, again, there is a concern that we are adding anoth er fossil fuel driven vehicle to the whole mix in Bermuda. Now, Mr. Speaker , I must admit that perhaps I and others might have been a little bit more …
Okay. So there is going to be either option. But, again, there is a concern that we are adding anoth er fossil fuel driven vehicle to the whole mix in Bermuda. Now, Mr. Speaker , I must admit that perhaps I and others might have been a little bit more settled with this particular initiative if we had seen the offerings that are going to possibly be put on our roads. I have not seen any example of a vehicle of this type, although the former Minister did say that he had seen it, the police had seen it, and they have driven around in it. Well, yeah, okay. But what about the rest of us? I have not seen it. I have not seen an option of what might be used in Bermuda. No one has presented one to us to show us. I have not seen it anywhere and, frankly, that might even have been something that might have been more helpful, if perhaps somebody had shown us what these actual vehicles might look like. I have not seen it.
[Inaudible interjection]
Mr. Walter H. RobanI do not know that. I am just hearing what they said. I have not seen it and no one directed me to where I could see an option. I have not seen it or some of the options that might be available. I am just saying that that in …
I do not know that. I am just hearing what they said. I have not seen it and no one directed me to where I could see an option. I have not seen it or some of the options that might be available. I am just saying that that in itself might have helped some people to be settled with the decision going forward, including myself. And some of my concerns might have been allayed if I could at least have seen what might be appearing on Bermuda’s roads. So, these are some of the things, Mr. Speaker, that people are concerned with. And also because we still continue to have road fatalities of a disturbing number on our roads. These are the facts. And there is the ov erall concern from people that introducing a new option onto our roads than what we already have could enhance the risk that we all are presented with. So these are just some of the things, Mr. Speaker , that are on the table of concerns. But I go back. It started because this whole initiative started in the wrong way in the first place and if, perhaps, it had started on a different tone with a little wider transparency and disclosure and wider public availability of information as to what the Government was going to be coming forth with, it might have settled down some of the temperature around this option and it would have been moved forward sooner. So, Mr. Speaker , that is the reason why the taxi operators who, seemingly, you know, prior to the last elec tion were the undying fans of the One Berm uda Alliance and paraded around the country with caravans of taxis lauding that a One Bermuda Alliance will bring a new day for them, new opportunities, a 306 25 November 2016 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly sense of peace, prosperity, and good will to the taxi indus try. Well, it does not seem like that is the sort of . . . what we are hearing now. And I am not saying that this is unique to the One Bermuda Alliance because, certainly, those on this side who had the opportunity to be Transport Mi nisters experienced th eir own experience with the taxi industry, Mr. Speaker . But perhaps we are just seeing more of the same and it is not as simple as that as we go forth. And perhaps these are a part of the promise that the One Bermuda Alliance brought to the taxi i ndustry t hat will bring a different approach to them. It will be different; it will be something unlike what they experienced with the previous administration. Well, I think, perhaps if you speak to some taxi drivers as I have, you might find that that has not real ly been their experience and all that is glitter is not gold. But Mr. Speaker , despite lauding our taxi o perators as being great ambassadors of Bermuda, those ambassadors may not feel that they are being treated as well as they deserve by the current admi nistration. But, again, we shall see. I think there is an argument, Mr. Speaker , for us trying to ensure that . . . it is not always about doing what the client wants sometimes. And I have not seen any data that supports the fact that visitors in any notic eable amount say that they would be more encouraged to come to Bermuda, they would be more enhanced by the local experience if they had their own independent car or minicar to get around. I do think that there still remains value, Mr. Speaker , in us wantin g Bermuda to be a bit unique in the experience that people have here in that there should not always be a rush to do what others are doing all the time. There are some things that just will not fit. You know we are a 22- square- mile jurisdiction, we are not 100 square miles, 150 square miles, we do not have a lot of space in the way that other islands in the south have for flexibility, so we have a very fixed product to work with, Mr. Speaker . And because it is very fixed and somewhat finite most small changes matter. They can have broad impacts in ways that are not the same in a West Coast or an East Coast juri sdiction, some of which are even our competitors, like Newport and other areas of New England. Or even some of our cousins to the south who, despite being islands like us, have a lot more land, have a lot more space. As was said by an Honourable Member in this House, Mr. Speaker , earlier today on this same di scussion, you know, we were told, Oh well, some extra parking in Hamilton is going to be provid ed. Well, there is no parking for most vehicles now in Hami lton—car or bike. You have to search. So more space is going to be made? That still means that we are going to be potentially competing for space with these new products as they come. And perhaps, Mr. Speaker , there is a value with potentially having a sort of pilot operation or pilot programme initially for a period of time on this to help people to become comfortable. Whether it be the taxi operators, whether it be other people in the transportation business, whether it be the public in general, a sort of trial period where an operator was not necessarily given an exclusive to have them here on- Island, but perhaps for a six -month period, somebody would have been allowed to have these vehicles and t hey be offered to visitors at a sort of reasonable rate to try out because we are piloting them in Bermuda to see if they will fit. And we will get feedback from those vis itors. And then maybe after that six -month period everybody else who wishes to get i nvolved would be allowed to come in and bring in products. But they would be based on real . . . kind of a period of assessment that would allow everyone to be comfort able. Because, you know, we do not know, despite what we are all saying on both sides. We do not know what the impact of this is going to be, really. We do not. The impact might end up being okay; but there also might be some things that happen that we do not anticipate. And I think part of that is built up, Mr. Speaker , as I said before, around the sensitivity around transportation in Bermuda because of the amount of transportation that we are exposed to. One of the other things (I will just jump around) is our issue around our friends to the south. You know, one of the unique things about Ber muda compared to the other jurisdictions to the south which have been referenced is that we actually have quite a few transportation offerings here, which is unique from many Caribbean islands. We have an actual real pu blic bus system that is open to acces s by visitors and is easily accessible for visitors as well as locals. And I have been to a few islands in the south and even where they have a sort of minibus system, most often they have a minibus system that you can get on. You know, you kind of have to really know what you are doing and know where you are going to be able to take advantage of it. We actually have a public bus system which is comparable in structure and oper ation to many of the metropolitan cities around the world, and that actually is a plus for us, I think. We also have . . . and it is perhaps a more r ecent option, Mr. Speaker . We have minibuses which have come in just within recent years and are also a part of it. And, of course, we have taxis which are our legacy offering and the oth er pieces which are mostly private, privately run. So we have offerings that make us unique from our friends to the south that actually many visitors come here and like the fact that they can get on a bus and go from Hamilton to the South Shore quite easil y or some of other attractions quite easily without having to . . . and can decide, Okay, my family wants to take a bus today, so we are going to take a bus because we want to see Bermuda from the bus standpoint.
Bermuda House of Assembly Oh, my family, we want to take a taxi today because we want to . . . maybe a nice, exclusive taxi tour. Okay, oh no, I was told that the minibuses can help us out, we just want to go from A to B at a reasonable rate. I’ll rent a minibus. I’ll look into renting a minibus. So even our visitors right now, Mr. Speaker , have many options. Now, I am not necessarily arguing against this measure. I am arguing for the concerns that have been raised around this measure, Mr. Speaker , that I think have to be taken on board by the Government. But I am not going to argue against the measure, which I have seen some of the Members on the other side have. They are almost downplaying what Bermuda already has in order to build up what they are doing here. You know, I have never been comfortable with that style of debate because it suggests some intellectual —
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberDishonesty.
Mr. Walter H. RobanNot only dishonesty, but dis ability, frankly, that you have to destroy something to build up your own credibility. Argue your case in the face of whatever challenges you face and take out those arguments that challenge you one by one at a time to give credibility to your argument. …
Not only dishonesty, but dis ability, frankly, that you have to destroy something to build up your own credibility. Argue your case in the face of whatever challenges you face and take out those arguments that challenge you one by one at a time to give credibility to your argument. Do not totally destroy and say, Well, that has absolutely no value and mine does , when actually you do not make your argument any better. So to argue that this Bill that we are doing, the Motor Car Amendment (No. 2) Act, I believe it is, is bringing something because everything else we have is just not satisfactory for the visitor, or that there is a complete total danger in any other option or unsuit ability or that visitors are really demanding something else . . . I have not seen any data or credible evidenc e to support that. But, again, I go back, Mr. Speaker . It is how this started. It is how this whole discussion started with a cloak -and-dagger effort to bring a Bill with an abysmal process of consultation and still perhaps not an effort to get all of the other stakeholders on board and comfortable with this process. Now that does not mean, Mr. Speaker , as I have said, because I am prepared to perhaps believe that this might actually be something that some people might like. Some people actually just might like this, all right, Mr. Speaker ? So I am prepared to say, as the Honourable Member said, you know, we cannot be 100 per cent for everybody, but perhaps there are going to be 10 to 20 of the 100 that might just like this. And that is okay too, because we do have to be versatile. We do have to be able to have a number of choices and options available to our clients. But we also, Mr. Speaker , have to ensure that those who are our partners in this process, which are the Bermudi-ans—despite what some Members of the Government might think or others . . . we do have to make sure that our Bermudians are happy in this process of tourism.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYou have about 30 seconds left, Ho nourable Member .
Mr. Walter H. RobanAnd so let us move forward trying to get e verybody on side, Mr. Speaker , so that this change, if it is going to come, will be something that we all can at least have a level of comfort with. Thank you, Mr. Speaker .
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAll right. Thank you. Thank you, Ho nourable Member . Any other Honourable Member care to speak? ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE SPEAKER HOUSE VISITOR
The SpeakerThe SpeakerJust before you speak Honourable Member , I just want to recognise Senator Fahy, the Minister of Transport here. [Motor Car Amendment (No. 2) Act 2016, second reading debate continuing]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThe Chair will recognise the Honour able Minister for Home Affairs, Minister GordonPamplin. You have the floor. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . I am going to commence my comments with the exact last comment that was made by the Honourable Member who just took his …
The Chair will recognise the Honour able Minister for Home Affairs, Minister GordonPamplin. You have the floor.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . I am going to commence my comments with the exact last comment that was made by the Honourable Member who just took his seat when he said that some people might like it and some people may not. And basically, Mr. Speaker , it is important to say that those who do not like it will not use it. There is not any obligation on behalf of anybody coming to the Island to say that this will be your mode of transport, this will be the manner in which you will get around and, therefore, you are obligated to purchase the rental time for one of these vehicles. That is not the case. I find in very interesting because the Honourable Member from [ constituency] 6 who spoke earlier . . . I sometimes wonder what the thought process is that goes through the Honourable Member ’s head when he stands on the floor, because I remember just not too long ago when he was beating his chest about some of the things that this One Bermuda Alliance Government is doing and how we are following in the footsteps because they provided concessions and now we are providing concessions. But yet his Lead308 25 November 2016 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly er’s statement indicated that this was a negative, that it was a negative. So what is interesting here is the Honourable Member started today with his Michael Jackson ana logy, his Michael Jackson say ing, They don’t care about us. And by making that statement the question begs, which— [Inaudible interjection]
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: The Honourable Member is asking me to sing it. I do not think I can, and I am not even going to try. Actually, I could if I wanted to, perhaps not as good as the Member from [constituency] 6, but I can sing, I think. But let me just ask the question, when the taxi drivers, yo u know, and when he said they don’t care about us (speaking specifically to the taxi drivers) that “they” being the Government, was it not the Gover nment that introduced unregulated minibuses. And what have we done as an administration, as will have been s een in the Throne Speech, to indicate that we will bring in regulations for minibuses? So that is a situation in which you did not have regulations, you are saying that the taxi industry —
Mr. Walter H. RobanPoint of order, [Madam Deputy] Speaker . [Mrs. Suzann Roberts -Holshouser, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair]
Mr. Walter H. RobanThis [PLP] Government did begin the process of drafting regulations for the minibuses and they would have found those drafts and those proposals on their desks when they became Government in 2012.
The Deputy SpeakerDeputy SpeakerThank you, Member. The Chair recognises the Minister. Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: As I said, Madam Deputy Speaker , minibuses were introduced sans legislation —regulation, sorry. There was nothing to reg ulate mini buses to give them a structure and a fram ework under which to operate when they …
Thank you, Member. The Chair recognises the Minister.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: As I said, Madam Deputy Speaker , minibuses were introduced sans legislation —regulation, sorry. There was nothing to reg ulate mini buses to give them a structure and a fram ework under which to operate when they were allowed. They came on the roads in direct competition to the taxi industry and we did not hear . . . they just thought it was a good thing. And I am not knocking it at thi s point. But do not on the one hand say that we on this side do not care because this is another amenity that we are offering to visitors, and yet on the other hand say that they allowed full frontal competition to the taxi industry without regulation and somehow that is okay. You know, I have kind of committed, almost you know, to saying that we will . . . I will not, in my debate, stand and say what you did and what you did not do. I am trying not to do that, but when we hear — [Inaudible interjections] Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: When we hear blatant comments coming from Members opposite that are directly contradictory to what they have done and what it is that we are trying to do, it is very difficult not to reflect back and make that comparison. So I think it is important that we as a Government will be regulating the minibuses so that . . . you talk about who cares about them? We do care to try to create a balance. But I appreciate the comment that was made by the Honourable Member who just spok e to the i ssue of not having to undermine that which we have to suggest that what is coming up that is new is going to somehow . . . you know, that that is the only thing that needs to be considered, because that is not what we are doing. We recognise that in some circumstances the minicar, as identified in this legislation, may be appropriate. In other instances there are those who may still wish to ride the mopeds. There are others who will want to continue to take the legacy taxis, as the Honourable Member referred to. And there are some, in fact, who prefer to see Bermuda from the waterside, which is an absolutely fabulous experience, and utilise the ferries. So we do have integrated transportation possibilities, but what is wrong with offering an amenity that people have asked for? And, you know, I think that the Honourable Member did indicate that we are all in this together and that there is a partnership. But we need to make sure that we put together our best abilities with the partnership in order to create a situation which pays dividends. Because nobody wants to think that they have a partner and that the partner is creating a dim inution in the value of that partnership. So, if we have to put something to embrace whatever we have to make it b etter—not to replace anything, but to make it
Bermuda House of Assembly better, to enhance what we offer —then what is wrong with doing that? I think there is nothing wrong with doing that. Nobody has said on this side of the aisle that we are going to throw out everything that exi sts, put taxi drivers out of business, put everybody else out of business because this is the new be- all [and] end- all. We have not said that. We have said that this is an amenity which will be offered to visitors coming in if they so choose. And we are no t forcing anybody to do it. It just is what it is. Let me also say that the Honourable Member from [constituency] 17 . . . no, sorry from [constitue ncy] 15, was concerned that he had not had the ability to see some of the vehicles. I believe that his Shadow Minister for Transport actually did have the opportun ity to see. And if the Honourable Member did not avail himself of the possibility of going to see what was b eing offered, he cannot fault anybody but himself. B ecause what is interesting . . . you know, I came into this Honourable House, Madam Deputy Speaker , from the perspective of being a Member of the Opposition. And when you are a Member of the Opposition you have to be entrepreneurial in how you approach your legislative responsibilities. As a Mem ber of the Go vernment, invariably you are spoon fed by permanent secretaries, by their representatives —
The Deputy SpeakerDeputy SpeakerMember, if you will just hold on. I would appreciate the member who is about to leave the Gallery . . . you are not to be passing m essages to anyone on this side of the House. And that will not happen again while I am sitting in this …
Member, if you will just hold on. I would appreciate the member who is about to leave the Gallery . . . you are not to be passing m essages to anyone on this side of the House. And that will not happen again while I am sitting in this seat. Thank you. Sorry, Member.
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Thank you, thank you. You know just to say . . . sorry, you totally made me lose my train of thought here.
[Inaudible interjection]
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: No, I was not ending. But let me just go on to the next point that I want to make. And I understand why Members oppo-site would consider that everything that comes out from this side has some kind sinister implication, that there is some ulterior motive. And I think they perhaps became comfortable with that thought process because of the experiences that they had had. I think that we might remember, going back to the days of the cruise ship and port legislation, when it was told that this would not be taken up on a partic ular date—talk about bringing something in through the back door, under the table. And Members opposite were told, Well, you come in early so we can catch t he Opposition unawares and catch them off guard, to the extent that, I remember very clearly, Members on that side, some of whom are still sitting here, said, This is my integrity at stake. I told the Opposition we would not be taking up this particular legislation and, ther efore, I am not going to vote to support it . But that is a kind of underhanded or . . . sorry, less than open ex-change that has occurred in this Chamber. So I understand why Members opposite would start to say that they have some concern. And let me just say that the point that I was making was that as Members of the Government, they would have had the benefit of the services of perm anent secretaries and directors to feed them information. When you become an Opposition Member you do not have those benefits, so you have to kind of find your way to do things. And I say that to just r emind the Honourable Member that, notwithstanding that the Shadow Minister of Transportation made hi mself available in order to find out what the offerings were with respect to these minicars, that if he did not, there was nobody to fault but himself. Let me also suggest that we need to look at what the targeted market is with respect to these new vehicles that are coming in. We are talking about a 150 cc, which is no different than the cycle that I ride to work. We are talking about something that has a maximum of 20 horsepower, 15 kilowatt (if it is the electrical kind). These are not big cars that might have been the thought process. I think the first thing th at I heard about was something called a Twizy. That is not a car. It is not something that is going to be bombing around the highways and byways at 30 or 40 kilom etres. It is going to be something that is a maximum 150 cc, maximum two passengers. And, as we heard an Honourable Member say a little earlier, it is difficult to get two people plus golf clubs in the same vehicle. So, you know, this is not competition for the taxi industry in terms of what it is intended to provide. So I think that we have to s tart looking at b ecoming, perhaps, a jurisdiction of possibilities as opposed to continuously falling into the mindset of the opposition of no. Everything that comes out from this side is like, It’s not a good thing. No, you can’t do it. No, you shouldn’t do it . . . no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And you know, we had a debate . . . and I am not r eflecting on the debate, but I just wanted to reflect on the structure in which, to a person, there was concern about a particular issue. And they all stood and spoke about it and when we got to Committee nobody u ttered one concern about the primary issue with which everybody had concern. Why? Because information was provided. So you do not just come . . . and they stood, we stood for hours and all we heard was no, no, no, no, no and then you realise that the “no” was ill-placed. So we want to ensure that we start working together. If we want to talk about a successful Berm uda, let us . . . I do not have a problem with criticism, 310 25 November 2016 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly observation. That is not the problem at all. Let us not dig in our heels and automatically assume that ever ything that comes out from this side is negative and the only thing that is worth considering is what Members opposite wish to advance. Because you cannot have an effective parliamentary pr ocess if that is the approach. The Honourable Member who just took his seat before me indicated in his presentation that it is a shame that the Honourable Member from [constituency] 31 was not the pitch man for this concept because he had a rather convinci ng argument. All I say is, let us start looking at the issues and not the individuals. I think that this is very important . If you have a predetermined mindset when somebody stands and opens their mouth, it is not . . . you know, listen to what comes out as opposed to what that person’s persona might bring. And I understand that, you know, there is suspicion with certain ones of us on this side. It is what it is , and we live with that. But with that said I think it is important that we put some of the realities of this legislation on the table. Now the one thing that concerns me is that of fatalities. And I think we have heard . . . you might recall, Madam Deputy Speaker, that Ice Queen in P aget was a difficult sort of junction. You used to come to it at the base of Rural Hill and go in and then you would come out close on the more western side of the parking lot. And we had a very nasty and, in fact, fatal accident that occurred at that junction at one point in time. And immediately the proprietors of that establishment looked at how to better create a safe env ironment for traffic to enter and to egress. And they changed around the entrance, being the farther west, and then the exit being a place where there was a better [line] of sight. Obviously , any time that somebody has an accident . . . the Honourable Member from [constit uency] 31 said it very well , in that we want to make sure that the experience that our vi sitors have is . . . that the experience is a positive one. We do not want anybody to have a vacation ruined as a result. So if this type of vehicle works for them —I am not saying it is the only choice— but if this vehicle works for them, I do not see that there is anything wrong with providing that additional amenity. So I think that I would like to support this to say that I am pleased that we have had the opportunity to discuss this particular issue, to look at how we can enhance a visitor’s experience. Now, we heard about protectionism and what a Government’s responsibility is , and it was interes ting. The Honourable Member from [constituency] 31 who brought up the idea of the reciprocity and the . . . I would not say a threat, but maybe a veiled threat, that came from the then- Consul General who was concerned about the fact that his diplomats were unable to get some kind of vehicle access while they were here as we can get when we go [to the US]. And that was a very real challenge that we had to face. And we are still working through how best to ensure that our Bermudians are not disabled from the convenience that they want when they are travelling and they want to be able to travel conveniently when they want to. And I think that it is important that we, again, become more a Government of possibilities because we can work through . . . we are not saying that every person who comes on- Island, that there are going to be so many of these new vehicles that it will under-mine the entire traffic structure. There are regs that will still be brought to have it as an overview of this legislation. And I think that it is very, very important that we continue to strike the delicate balance that is necessary between what we have and what it is that we are attempting to provide. So you know, convenience says a lot. I know certainly as a reasonably seasoned traveller when I go to a different jurisdiction, I want to be able to rent a car. Not because I do not like their taxis, but because I want to be able to come and go when I want to come and go. We do have a good integrated public transport system, provided that you are ready to move before midnight so you can get the buses. If you do not, then you are going to be out of luck. And I think that we have to . . . there are some people who may be out and they do not w ant to be leaving in order to catch the last bus. Added to which, the last bus wher-ever it might be may not take them to their door. I know for a fact that if I had to take the bus to go home, if I got off at the nearest bus stop to my house, I have still got a 10 to 15 minute walk to get up the hill, around the corner, and into my house.
[Inaudible interjection]
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Absolutely. All up hill . . . all up hill . . . all up hill!
[Inau dible interjection]
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: And the Honour able Member says overweight . One hundred per cent accurate, no problem with that . No argument with that , and I will absolutely accept that. But you have got to at least . . . at least a 10 minute —
[Inaudible interjections]
Hon. Patricia J. Gordon -Pamplin: Yes, all up the hill and in high- heeled shoes. So maybe they may not be able to understand that and they may not be able to have that exper ience. But let us just say that there are times when people wish it to be a little bit more convenient and they do not necessarily want to be out after dark. It is interesting, I had a conversation just the last time that we met with the Honourable Member from constituency 29, when he spoke about the rumBermuda House of Assembly ble strips on East Broadway and saying that he believed that they had a sort of a positive impact on the level of fatalities that existed on the roads. And as he said that I thought, you know, whatever we can do to enhance people’s experiences in traversing our hig hways and byways, then we have to do it. We have to make sure that we create a safe environment. And if that assists in creating a reminder that there is, you know, a bend that is coming up that is going to be, that must be negotiated well in order to avoid a traffic accident, then that is what we need to do. But if we are saying to our visitors that we are going to put you in something where you are protec ted, that if you do have a rain shower that you are still going to be dry, that you do not have to worry about being on a bike, and as the kids call it, decking out , and especially on that cam per that exists going along East Broadway, then you know, let us at least look at how we can embrace it and try to create a positive experience for, not just our visitors, but bearing in mind the Honourable Member from [constituency] 14, the partnership, because these are also things that will be available, there is not hing that will preclude a Bermudian resident from going and renting one of these quadracycles if that works for them. And especially when you have a limited ability to have your car available for your college- age chi ldren when they come home from school, t here is nothing wrong with saying we will get them a quadracycle, we will get them something else. And I know, Madam Deputy Speaker, I would rather see my child on a quadracycle than I would on a moped that might just frighten the life out of me because yo u do not know, not so much whether they are going to be car eful, but how careful the other road user will be. So with those few comments I would like to end my comments on this particular issue. But I think it is important that we highlight the fact that w e are just trying to create an amenity, that we are not looking to reproduce what we have in transportation possibilities for our visitors. And let us see how we can embrace this to make it work and to make it work for ever ybody. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.
The Deputy SpeakerDeputy SpeakerThank you, Minister. Are there any other Members that would like to speak to the Motor Car Amendment (No. 2) Act 2016? Thank you. The Chair recognises the Member from constituency 30, Ms. L. K. Scott. You have the floor.
Ms. Leah K. ScottThank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Madam Deputy Speaker, the first thing I would like to say is that I actually have to agree with the Member from constituency 15 in terms of our ability to convey and communicate information about this Motor Car Act. I think that we, as a …
Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Madam Deputy Speaker, the first thing I would like to say is that I actually have to agree with the Member from constituency 15 in terms of our ability to convey and communicate information about this Motor Car Act. I think that we, as a Government, have not done very well in terms of communicating and making people feel comfortable about some of the things that we want to do. Change makes people uncomfortable, and in order to make them feel comfortable you need to talk to them about what you are doing and allow them the time to adapt. However, I do not think that the Government does not have good intentions. I think that we are d oing what we can do to try to boost the economy, to boost tourism, to get peopl e here to create jobs. We are not tearing down what we have as existing pro ducts, we have got taxis, minibuses, regular buses. So what we want to do, as Minister Pat Gordon- Pamplin has said, is we want to enhance the suite of products that we do have. When the minibuses first came out the taxi drivers were not comfortable with them, but they have somehow managed to coexist. And I am sure that they will manage to coexist with these little quadrac ycles. The people that actually should be up in arms are the people that own the livery cycles because that is going to have a greater impact on them than it will the taxi drivers. The taxi drivers will still be able to get their fares. They will still be able to have the long trips to and from the airport because, from what I understand, although I have not seen the quadracycle, they will not be able to take luggage or transport any big items in them. And the reality is some people will use them and some people will not. I know that when I have guests come, I do not like to have to transport them all over the place, especially when I am working. So this will allow them the ability to move around the Island freely and to get around and see things that they might not be able to see because I will not have the time to take them. So I think, though we may have started out wrong, that we are going to end up right and I think that this is a good thing and I think that we all should support it. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.
The Deputy SpeakerDeputy SpeakerThank you, Member. The Chair recognises the Member from constituency 21. You have the floor.
Mr. Rolfe CommissiongThank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I am going to, like my colleague across the aisle, probably be somewhat brief myself. You know I just find it unfortunate in this House that at a time when statistics now indicate that both the global ice shelves in the Antarctic and in the …
Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I am going to, like my colleague across the aisle, probably be somewhat brief myself. You know I just find it unfortunate in this House that at a time when statistics now indicate that both the global ice shelves in the Antarctic and in the Arctic are shrinking . . . in fact, the Arctic shelf as of November has reached its greatest level of depletion. What this means is that the prospects of global war ming increasing is definitely on the cards, I should say. 312 25 November 2016 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly And the reason why I bring this up, people may be listening over the airwaves here and in the House, and thinking that I am going off on a tangent . Frankly , I am not , because I am tying it right back to this Motor Car Amendment (No. 2) Act. I am very di sappointed that at a time when there is a global focus on the impact of global warming on the environment and a call for the concomitant r eduction in greenhouse emissions globally . . . we know about the Paris [Agreement ] that was recently agreed to. We are finding our Government proposing to allow another set of vehicles that will be emitting greenhouse gases by way of being fuelled by foss il fuels. I just think that is unfortunate. I would have been far happier with this Bill if we would have been a little bit more ambitious by pr oposing that only vehicles generated by way of electr ical power or electricity -driven vehicles were going to be allowed. They have made a decision here to also go with more traditionally powered vehicles in terms of these minicars that are going to be driven by way of fossil fuels. And so that is a missed opportunity for me, and I would ask the Government to reconsi der that. Technological change is another issue that I want to convey here. It is nothing that I think we can avoid. I will concede that processes that afford greater efficiencies may not necessarily be always welcome because there is a trade- off, for exam ple. And so we need to be careful about that . But the reality is that the world is moving in another direction, particular ly as it relates to the transportation industry itself. We know that there is an enormous amount of investment going into the developm ent of autonomous vehicles. Major industrial players within the car industry, such as Tesla, General Motors, Daimler -Benz, BMW, Ford, they are all investing heavily in this technology. We could very well find that within the next 10 years, particularly in the taxi transportation industry, that taxis themselves increasingly will be autonomous vehicles providing transportation. In addition, we know that the technological disruption represented by companies which are now global players, such as Uber and Lyft . . . someone mentioned earlier about our own, sort of, perhaps version of it, that being HITCH in the local market . That is another example of this. So even for our brothers and sisters out there, many of us are deeply connected with those in the taxi industry because this plays such a vital role within our communities, our households, particularly within our labour market and our economy that we cannot bury our heads in the sand. Change is inevitable.
[Hon. K.H. Randolph Horton, Speaker, in the Chair]
Mr. Rolfe CommissiongWith respect to this Bill, Mr. Speaker, I do know that there will be some within the taxi industry that are necessarily opposed to it. But that does not mean that all taxi drivers are opposed to it. Some do not feel this represents a competitive threat directly at that …
With respect to this Bill, Mr. Speaker, I do know that there will be some within the taxi industry that are necessarily opposed to it. But that does not mean that all taxi drivers are opposed to it. Some do not feel this represents a competitive threat directly at that level to themselves. So I think we need to take a more nuanced view here. The other thing that I want to just bring attention to that I was very happy about is the fact that . . . I think it was last week someone alluded to it , one of the Members . You had a group of young black entr epreneurs looking to get into this market. I do not think that we should just dismiss that or blithely ignore their ambitions in this regard. So, having said that , it means that I am not going to be necessarily opposed to the legislation itself, although I have concerns. I think that what they are proposing is great. Their vehicles will be electrically powered. I believe there are three- wheeled vehicles, three- and four - wheeled vehicles. And I saw, you know, at the end of the day, the Government perhaps will have its way . But if that is the case and the Bill does pass, then I am very happy for the fact that we are going to have these young black entrepreneurs who seem poised — Mr. Bulford from Somerset and his colleagues —to be major players in this industry. Again, getting back to concerns, I think we have to be very cognisant of the fact that congestion on our roads will perhaps be impacted by this. B ecause what we are going to have is not only the growth of this market sector, this industry in our coun-try, but that will be superimposed (if you will) upon the fact that many of the livery cycle companies will also still be marketing and renting their wares, t heir livery cycles, mopeds and other types of related vehicles in the Bermuda market. And so will we eventually see these livery companies also wanting to get into this market sector? I think that is going to be inevitable and something that we will have t o take a look at. But my point about the congestion is that we have got to understand that we now have mega ships, super mega ships, I would say , coming in here on a regular basis . When you talk about passengers and crew combined, we could be seeing anywhere from 7,000 to 8,000 individuals that are on some of these ships. It is extraordinary. Back 10 years ago when I was involved with my company with the cruise ship industry myself, a mega ship was a ship that had maybe 2,500 to 3,000 passengers, 10 to 15 y ears ago. It is more than double that now in terms of size and we are seeing them parked up here weekly or two and three times a week now during the height of the season. So, not only will we be seeing these vehicles, which are going to perforce take up more space on our roads, they are significantly larger than the m oped. When the economy begins to come back — and we all look forward to that —in a very robust way, we all know what it looked like on Bermuda roads go-ing back seven or eight years ago. So if we have a rebound in our economy to such an extent that we are going to see greater numbers of people coming here
Bermuda House of Assembly taking up residence, working in Bermuda, we are g oing to see more Bermudians, again, working full time and being able to purchase vehicles, and to a larger extent than may exist now. And so this could be an-other major issue down the road in terms of conges-tion as some of my colleagues have pointed out. Again, in terms of the taxi industry, we must not ignore their concerns. They are valid. As I said before they play a very key role in our economy. And for many households the earnings that are generated by our taxi operators and drivers represents significant revenue for these households and we should not i gnore that and we should always look to look out for their interests in that regard. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAll right. Thank you, Honourable Member. The Chair will now recognise the Honourable Member from constituency 28, MP Jeff Sousa. You have the floor.
Mr. Jeff Sousa—and those in the House and those in the listening audience. Mr. Speaker, I feel this legislation is far overdue and I do take offence to some on the other side stating that we do not care. I hear that quite often coming from those on that side. Mr. Speaker, …
—and those in the House and those in the listening audience. Mr. Speaker, I feel this legislation is far overdue and I do take offence to some on the other side stating that we do not care. I hear that quite often coming from those on that side. Mr. Speaker, we are doing this because we do care—all of us —and for many reasons. Number one, we want to see the tourism, the hospitality industry, get better and improve in this country. And by doin g that, Mr. Speaker, that benefits each and every one of us on this Island. Likewise, we have heard many today talk about the safety issue. And, of course, myself being on the road more than most in the House, I likewise have picked up many of these touri sts on the ground. What we must realise is that many of our closest neighbours in the United States have never been on a bike before in their life. So coming here and getting on a small little moped on smaller roads is quite intimidating for them. But by being on these vehicles which I understand many of them have four wheels, they are going to be much more comfortable with riding these vehicles. And, of course, I also heard many say that consultation never took place. Well, Mr. Speaker, I personally spoke with many of the taxi drivers along with the Minister of Transport and we explained to them in large groups, you know, in small numbers, what th is was about. Of course, the initial threat to them was when, as my fellow Cowboy fan, former Minister Crockwell had said, that when the word “rent” a car came up, that really threw them off. Many of our taxi drivers were thinking there will be Hertz and A vis out at the airport and this never was proposed and never was an idea. And, of course, Mr. Speaker, I have many cousins that drive taxis. My grandfather was one of the first taxi drivers, T13. So I understand their concerns and I, likewise, have been speaking with them. But if we are looking to be a first -class tou rist destination again, we need to do things like this because the tourists of today do want choices. And, again, you know, I have heard issues mentioned about where we are going to park them and we have heard earlier today that there is going to be additional parking at Bull’s Head. Likewise, I do know that the hotels, particularly the major hotels, will be accommodating some additional parking. And likewise even the Government would have to l ook at this with some of our major beaches and so on. So I just want to say, once again, particularly for the listening audience, that consultation did take place numerous times on a one- on-one basis. Actua lly, I am meeting with a taxi driver tomorrow in m y office. But consultation has taken place quite often. And I do feel that this legislation is good for Bermuda. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member. Any other Honourable Member care to speak? The Chair will recog nise the Leader of the Opposition from constituency 18, MP David Burt. You have the floor. Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, a few times I think I have …
Thank you, Honourable Member. Any other Honourable Member care to speak? The Chair will recog nise the Leader of the Opposition from constituency 18, MP David Burt. You have the floor.
Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, a few times I think I have stood to my feet and told this story, but I am going to tell the story again. And it is a story of when I canvassed i nside of Pembroke West Central when I was running up to the election and there would always be this joke I would tell because people would ask me how I felt about gaming in Bermuda. And I would say, Well, with regard to gaming I am in favour of gaming, absolutely, and I have been in favour for a while. But in Bermuda we have a propensity at some points in time to be suspicious and resisting change. And the analogy that I always drew was that I said that I am sure that in 1951 when there was the importing of cars and the Motor Car Act, I am sure there were a whole lot of people that were against cars being in Bermuda. And so that is just the nature of some . . . it is kind of like a unique quirk, I guess, of being Bermudian, the r esistance to change. And I think that is a reason why in a lot of ways that we have some of the challenges which we have like that. But at the same point in time and in agreement with the Honourable Member for constituency 30 who took to her feet a short while ago, and with my Deputy who says that the reason why we somehow seem to have such challenges in this approach is that the Government cannot seem to get it right when it comes to consultation. It cannot seem to get it right 314 25 November 2016 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly when it comes to communication. It cannot seem to get it right when it comes to understanding the fact that you must have the support of the people before you move things forward. And that is the challenge, Mr. Speaker, that we are constantly faced with by this Government. And the only reason we are here doing this now is because the first time they did it they got taxi drivers in this country to drop tools. Now, Mr. Speaker, I will declare my interest as a taxi owner. It takes a lot to get a taxi driver to say that they are not going to drive a taxi on a Friday night during the summer. That takes a lot. But taxi drivers felt as though their livelihood was under attack by this Government, a Government which, I would say, came into office promising all and sundry to taxi drivers. I remember that pledge that they had in their One Bermuda Alliance platform, Mr. Speaker, talking about how they are going to make GPS optional? It is not optional anymore. But we know that the One Bermuda Alliance goes back on their promi ses very quickly. That is what they do. They contradict themselves and make no apologies for it. So it should come as no surprise that the taxi drivers do not trust the One Bermuda Alliance, or trust their intentions. Now, I note that the Minister’s brief , even though there were some press statements earl ier about certain supports from certain segments of the taxi industry on this, but I note the Minister’s brief does not say that the Government has the approval of the taxi drivers. It says that we have consulted to make them aware because I know that many taxi drivers and many taxi associations, of which there is more than one, oppose this. But I get it. It is the same reason that the Honourable Minister of Economic D evelopment might oppose more insurance companies or more car dealerships, the same reason why the Honourable Premier might oppose more people sel ling milk or importing milk, the same reason why the Honourable Member from constituency 14 might be opposed to more people selling cars or importing used cars—because it is competition. However, Mr. Speaker, from an economic perspective what we have to understand is increased competition tends to make economies stronger. And it is a challenge that we have to come to grips with. And it is something that we have to be very clear about when we speak insofar as the way in which we want to go forward. So, no, we cannot be resistant to change . And I want to make it clear that in the Progressive Labour Party we are not resistant to change. But not being resis tant to change does not mean that you cannot put forward reasonable concerns which come out of this Bill. And what we are embarking on, Mr. Speaker, is that we are embarking on something that has never happened before, that this is a change and we do not know what the impacts may be. And so the concerns that have to be expressed are whether or not, with no limits that are being placed on these vehicles, if we may run into unintended consequences, if we may want to go with a slowly, slowly approach before we go to, Okay, everyone, [and] you have a free- for-all.
[Inaudible interjection]
Hon. E. David Burt: Yes, and there is a challenge, of course, also with us considering this without knowing or understanding what the regulations may contain. The regulatio ns which will come from negative resol ution, which as you know, Mr. Speaker, we never get to see up here. Because our rules and the Statutory I nstruments Act state that negative resolutions must be tabled in this Parliament. And Mr. Speaker, this Government probably has tabled about 10 per cent of the negative resolutions that they have ever made, a point that I have gotten up on my feet many times in this Parliament and said, but yet the One Bermuda All iance just continues to go on, continues to ignore law s, continues to ignore consultation, continues to put things through. And we hope that they learn from their mistakes, but as we see with this Bill they have not. So, Mr. Speaker, the concerns that were raised by the Honourable Shadow Minister and others on this side are valid. We certainly have to be concerned about safety on our roads and these veh icles—without question. And to hear the Honourable Minister for Home Affairs, I think she has had about four or five portfolios, but the Honourable Minister for Home Affairs got up and talked about, Oh, these aren’t going to be vehicles that are going to go 40 kilometres per hour on our roads. She is just ma king things up as usual, because the Renault Twizy has a max speed of 80 kilometres per hour, which is far in excess of our speed limits, as do many vehicles. So to dismiss the concern that we have about safety on our roads, about persons now having vehicles that will have more propensity to cause damage and harm because they are larger and have more weight than a simple livery cycle, it does not make sense. So these are legitimate concerns. There have to be concerns, of course, about parking and congestion on our roads and with parking. It certainly is a valid concern that needs to be raised. And when we are talking about a free- for-all, then yes, it is a concern. So we want to know what the Gover nment plans to do to address that, we want to know what the Government plans to do with that because especially if we are talking about this in Dockyard because there has been some certain back and forth. Because we have heard from the taxi drivers that the Government has represented to them that there will not be any of these businesses in Dockyard, yet we hear Members of the One Bermuda Alliance talking about these vehicles coming out of Dockyard. So which one is it? Is it Dockyard, yes; or Dockyard, no? Or is this, as the Honourable Member from constit uBermuda House of Assembly ency 14 says, the One Bermuda Alliance contradicting themselv es and making no apologies for it? The clarity must come, Mr. Speaker, and we need to understand where the Government is going with this. And I would also like to echo another con-cern about the environmental impact. Because you have heard in our Throne Sp eech Reply about the need to make certain that we are conscious of reducing our carbon emissions. And understanding that there are numerous entrepreneurs, some who may wish to go electrical and some who may not, but it is something that we need to move to in order to make sure that we are using less and less fossil fuels and more of the renewable energies that we have. So I think that is something that is also important . . . and reducing our carbon footprint, whether it be with these vehicles and the possi bility of them being electronic. But I understand, and we cannot get there just now because even that, Mr. Speaker, will reduce the amount of persons who may be able to compete i nside this space. And that is where I want to close, Mr. Speaker, because we have some of the entrepreneurs who are looking to do some of these things in our audience today. I just had a conversation with Justin Robinson and will have conversations with other persons. Many Members on this side have spoken about persons who are involved in this who are members of the Pr ogressive Labour Party, who are former officers of the Progressive Labour Party. So we are not opposing them having the ability to be entrepreneurs, to create jobs, to create income and to extract more tourist dollars from the tourists. We have to do a better job of being able to extract more tourist dollars from the tourists, Mr. Speaker, but it still does not mean that we cannot raise legitimate concerns to ensure that this item in its implementation does not have any adverse impacts. And we need to make sure that we are very considerate of what that counts. So I would encourage the Government to adopt a slowly, slowly approach. I would encourage the Government also to ensure that whatever regul ations they have, that t here is consultation on those as well. And I would ask to make sure that unlike the numerous negative resolution changes to financial systems policies and all the rest which the Gover nment does which they do not table in this House, that the Minister of Ec onomic Development who is speaking, and the Permanent Secretary for the Ministry of Transport is here, I would ask that when those regul ations are made if they could be tabled in this Parli ament so at least the public can know and see what is going to be t abled. But with that, Mr. Speaker, I think we have beaten this horse a lot today and I think that we can move onto to other issues. But I would hope that the Government would consider this very carefully, but when it comes to competition, when it comes to young people being entrepreneurs, we want to support that as much as possible, making sure without, of course, the negative impacts. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAll right. Thank you. Thank you, Leader of the Opposition. The Chair will now recognise the Honourable Premier. You have the floor. Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and good afternoon to colleagues. The Opposition Leader gave me a chuckle when he talks about consultation and trust, and …
All right. Thank you. Thank you, Leader of the Opposition. The Chair will now recognise the Honourable Premier. You have the floor. Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and good afternoon to colleagues. The Opposition Leader gave me a chuckle when he talks about consultation and trust, and I just thought back very qui ckly of maybe they have learned a lesson about the need to consult after Uighurs —
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberOh, stop. Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: —were ordered to this Island under the cover of darkness . . . and the Members on the other side said, Oh, stop. — [Inaudible interjections] Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: But they can have a point of order. They can have a point of …
Oh, stop.
Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: —were ordered to this Island under the cover of darkness . . . and the Members on the other side said, Oh, stop. —
[Inaudible interjections] Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: But they can have a point of order. They can have a point of order if they want to correct me, but there will be no point of order over there. And talk about trust, the Opposition Leader talks about trust , but I recall what some of his former colleagues said no less than two weeks ago about that Honourable Member over there. And the Opposition Leader very boisterously talks about regulations not being able to be seen. Well, they are published in official G azettes and any Member of this House can table them for debate. And may I also remind the Opposition Leader that this Government is more open and more transparent than that Government could ever dream of being, Mr. Speaker.
[Inaudible interjection] Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: We implemented PATI . . . and I must be hitting a nerve because we have people over there who seem to have woken up. We impl emented PATI so information could be easily and readily available to the people, Mr. Speaker. So, Mr. Speaker, in regard to the Motor Car Amendment [No. 2] Act 2016 which we debate this afternoon, it is one of two approaches by the Oppos ition. A tired and typical approach where, Well, we support it but . . . but . . . but. And then they give veiled support for it and the longer this debate goes on it seems they are circling right back around. The second approach is that they say that this Gover nment, this caring and compassionate Government , really does not care about the people. Well, Mr. 316 25 November 2016 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly Speaker, we can have that debate at another time, or we can have it on the motion to adjourn tonight. But everything that we do is with the view of making Bermuda and all Bermudians better off as we move forward. And, Mr. Speaker, the list is long on the pr ogress that we have made. And there have been some allusions to what has taken place in the last couple of years in Bermuda. But, clearly , the progress that we have made to improve Bermuda and the opportunity for Bermudians is there, from ending the great reces-sion, to bringing c ruise ships into St. George’s —when they said it could not be done— to pumping hundreds of thousands of dollars into Cash Back [for Commun ities] to helping needy people in our community. And you know the Honourable Members laugh . . . they laugh at progress. Well, Mr. Speaker, I find it childish and chur lish that people will laugh at progress. And the list goes on and on. You talk about entrepreneurs, what about the microloans for the business people, small business people and entrepreneurs? So, Mr. Speaker , this Bill is supported by this side because we have had consultation across the board with the transportation industry and with the hospitality industry. And I accept that there are some challenges we will have to work through. I accept that there are some taxi owners and drivers who are a bit nervous about this change, but I have to congratulate the former Minister for looking at this approach and congratulate Minister Fahy for actually making it ha ppen and going out, with the support of his colleagues, going out and making the consultation happen. Mr. Speaker, the Honourable Minister who introduced this Bill, the very capable and hard- working Minister Gibbons, spoke about in his brief that there is always an opportunity to move forward and never, never should we rest on our laurels. Well, Mr. Speaker, it is very clear that we live in a world where change is very rapid . And we live in a world where communities and countries certainly look to move forward , and they do not care about outside of their realm of r esponsibility or outside of their community or onto other shores. And obviously in Bermuda if we do not take care of ourselves, then we will be steamrolled. And to some extent that has happened in the past with tour-ism because we have taken our eye off the ball. But now under this Government there is a r enewed focus on making sure that we stay at the cu tting edge. And now that we see a significant rebound in tourism , which colleagues have talked about it . . . and, you know, the Honourable Members keep chirping from the other side about various things . But there is a significant rebound in tourism. And, Mr. Speaker, in spite of those chirps I will say that rebound will continue next year because the BTA has a plan that they have worked with Gover nment and it is going to be successful going forward. But it does not mean that we can ever rest on our lau-rels because we fell back because we took our eye off the ball. And so with the tourism development we see, with the expanded seat capacity to Bermuda, wi th the renovations and the refurbishment and the building of hotels from the East End of the Island to the West End of the Island, we need to make sure that we provide the people who come to Bermuda with some of the amenities that they would expect to find . And this is one of them that we have seen calls for by people who have visited our Island, and we believe that it will support and it will strengthen our transportation industry. It will be . . . at the start, they will have to be l icensed just like the livery cycles now . And the Ho nourable Minister did show that the livery cycles have dropped drastically from 6,000 to 2,000 cycles. And Mr. Speaker, you have to ask, why is that the case? Well, obviously, I am sure there is a decrease, because the number i s down, so less people [are] ha ving that demand. But I also believe that because of the size of our roads, the size of vehicles and the [winding] roads that we have, the narrowness of the roads, that safety is a big concern. And let us face it, Mr. Speaker, too many of us in Bermuda drive way too recklessly. It is unbelievable just how bad our driving habits are. And so when our visitors come here, when they spend a lot of money to get here, when they work hard to come to Bermuda and they want to relax, th ey want to unwind, or they want to have some exciting adventure that you can find from one end of the Island to the other, safety on the roads is important. Thank God for our taxi drivers who provide that comfort and that transport. And you know, Mr. Speaker, there has been a lot of talk about taxi drivers. Let me just take this opportunity to thank the taxi drivers for being Bermuda’s most prominent ambassadors. I talk to visitors all the time about the service they get in Bermuda and they always talk about our taxi drivers, just how know ledgeable they are about the product that they have to sell, how friendly they are for everyone in the car, and how they go above and beyond the call of duty. That is the general reputation we have, and it certainly is heart -warming to see that that is actually the case. But we also know that while taxis can meet the needs of people, when visitors come they always want to look at other opportunities open to them. And I think this Bill here today creates a small niche so we can take care of some of the needs of the people, alleviate some of their concerns about safety, and we have to do it. My honourable colleague, MP Pettingill, from constituency 25, talked about a visit that he had to the Amalfi Coast. I was fortunate eno ugh to go there earlier this year with my family, Mr. Speaker, and I was blown away at just how treacherous their roads are. I have never seen [winding], hazardous roads like that. If you touch a curb and you go down, you are going down a couple of hundred feet—and they are not goBermuda House of Assembly ing to find you. And the way they drive there is unb elievable. They are motoring at very fast speeds. It is very difficult to drive there if you do not know the winding roads and the hazard of the conditions and if you take your mi nd off the road and you look at the beauty of the place— because it is very beautiful. So while I was there, I would never even think about renting a vehicle there. I made sure that my family and I always had somebody to take us around from place to place because I knew that it would be dangerous for me to drive: (1) because I would want to see the beauty, and (2) those roads were very treacherous. But what I found, though, was that their transportation [industry] found many different ways to cater to the p eople there. They gave them the opportunity to do that, and that is what we need to do in Bermuda. And that is what this Bill here does today. It provides an opportunity for a different form of transportation, still in support of the transportation industr y generally in Bermuda. Mr. Speaker, there has been some talk by colleagues on both sides of the House about entr epreneurship. I have no doubt that with the passage of this Bill and the implementation of the regulations and us moving forward that this wi ll provide opportunity. It will provide entrepreneurship. It will provide jobs all across the board. It will expand the ability of transport to cater to our needs, and also to make sure that people can get involved in something. The Honourable Members on t hat side and this side have talked about young Bermudians wanting to get involved with veh icles that they have seen. I think this is good. Remember, we are on the upswing now. We are going to have more people coming to this Island, we are going to have mor e need for transportation options, and yes, traffic will increase a bit. And yes, there will be some parking challenges. But we can work through those because the numbers have been down so far. And I think we can work through those and we can get more and more of our people back to work. We can offer exciting initiatives to the people that we bring to the Island. That is all about what Bermuda is now, changing from the old staid place where it maybe was my grandmother’s holiday to come to Bermuda, to givin g the experience that an yone wants. You can still be my grandmother and want to come here for a holiday and sit off on the beach on a beautiful November day and read a book. And you can still be the young person, like our daughters, who want to come to thi s Island and get out and see some excitement —go cliff diving, go have some of those types of experiences. There is a lot to Bermuda. We are now starting to cater to all the needs of the people we want to attract to Bermuda and we can compete with our other jurisdictions around here. So this Bill, Mr. Speaker, after fulsome debate, I am glad that we brought it here. I thank the Minister who sits in another place for the work that he has done. I thank the Minister here who is leading the Bill through. And thi s Bill is a very positive step for the people of Bermuda. And I thank all of those in the transportation industry for working with us to make this happen. This is a better day for Bermuda as we move forward. It is all about opportunity, entrepr eneurship, a nd jobs. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAll right. Thank you, Honourable Premier. The Chair will now revert back to the proposer of the Bill, Dr. Gibbons, the Minister for Economic D evelopment. You have the floor.
The Hon. Dr. E. Grant GibbonsThank you, Mr. Speaker, and I thank honourable colleagues on both sides of the House for their contributions. I cannot say that I agreed with some of them, but I think it was a good debate. Actually, I was a little surprised. But then I had to smile when t …
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I thank honourable colleagues on both sides of the House for their contributions. I cannot say that I agreed with some of them, but I think it was a good debate. Actually, I was a little surprised. But then I had to smile when t he Leader of the Opposition stood up to do some damage control, the Honourable Member from [constituency] 18. That Honourable Member, I think, as most of us have noticed, has been, I will say almost desperately, trying to rebrand his party as forward- think ing and progressive, embracing FinTech and all sorts of new technology and the rest of it. And yet . . . and yet . . . and yet when the opportunity came to embrace a new idea, to essentially try and move us forward from a transportation perspective with respect to tourism, most of the Members on the other side could do nothing but find problems with it. So, I think the issue is leopards do not change their spots. When push comes to shove, you see exactly where people are coming from. John Cage, a musician, had a nice saying which I kind of enjoy, it says, I don’t know why people are concerned about new ideas, it’s the old ideas that frighten me. And I think that speaks volumes to what is going on. And I will say that the Honourable Mem-ber, the Leader of the Opposition, did try and straddle the fence there a little bit saying that, obviously, they wanted to move forward and the rest of it. But, clearly, there has been sort of an undertone all day, particularly from the Honourable [Shadow Minister] who speaks for Transport over there in [constituency] 24, that all they could do was find problems with it. And so I think the issue . . . things have not changed very much at all. But I think as Honourable Members, partic ularly on this side, were saying, look, you know, we are either in the tourism business or we are not. And I will address some of the issues here, but I think, Mr. Speaker, you have seen it and other Honourable Members in the House have as well. We have seen in the last sort of year or so a real bum p in the younger demographics —some of them have called them the 318 25 November 2016 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly Millennials and the rest of it —but it is the 25- to 35year-old group, and those are often the ones that are coming with families and young families. And the Shadow Minister has seen it. I hav e had a look at a couple of examples of the minicars that we are talking about here and they present a much better alternative for young families, particularly those with children. We have often seen visitors with a young child on the back of a livery cycl e. And I think most of us kind of hold our breath about that. I am not going to even speak about what some local Bermudi-ans do when they put the young child in front of them on the scooter. I think that is an entirely different i ssue. But, you know, when y ou have got a visitor who has, perhaps, not been on a bicycle in some time and is riding with a small toddler or a small child, it really worries you. So, you know, these are alternatives, partic ularly if we are catering to visitors with families who really either cannot afford or do not wish to have a taxi all day and, you know, but want to get a young family around. It is an alternative which I think we have to look at and, in fact, one of these vehicles even has an airbag in it. So, I think when we are talking about this younger group, they are adventuresome. I think a lot of visitors who have ridden livery cycles here kind of like the adventure of it. It is an appeal of Bermuda. But I think, as Honourable Members have said, let us face it, our roads are getting more congested, more diff icult, not all of our fellow countrymen drive with safety in mind. And I think this is something that is going to help to increase the volume of tourists because it pr ovides more options, more amenities, and at the end of the day, I think it is actually going to provide more business for taxi drivers and others. So, it is not something which we should be necessarily fearful of because there will be protections in place, and I will speak to some of those in a few minutes. But I think we need to be forward- looking and we cannot, every time a new idea comes up, think of a hundred different reasons why we should not do it. That is not what moved Bermuda forward over the centuries, over the generations. It was people seeing oppor tunities and moving forward. And this is an opportunity in many ways, not only to strengthen our tourism product, but certainly also to provide opport unities for entrepreneurs if we like. As one honourable colleague said, I think the ones that probably need to have a very clear look at this are the liveries because they have dropped from some 6,000 cycles down to about 2,000. My under-standing is that there are only about five liveries still in business. So, this may be for them an opportunity as well to create jobs and to essentially provide a service for visitors as well. I think the other thing that certainly bothered me, particularly coming from the Honourable Member in constituency 6, is this kind of repeated thing about the Government doesn’t care and t hat is why we have done this. I think, Mr. Speaker, nothing could be fur-ther from the truth because I think had we not cared, had the Minister not cared . . . I can remember when the Bill was first put down. There was a lot of concern and aggravation about it. I think a lot of that was due to misinformation, and I will lay some of that at the feet of the Shadow Minister out there. Yes, we could have probably done a better job, but I do not think people saw it as a huge change in any respect. So I think that is a lesson learned. But in terms of not caring, Mr. Speaker, you know the movie Men in Black, when Will Smith and Tommy Lee Jones saw an alien and there were sort of normal people that also saw the alien, they had this device, I think it is called a neur alyzer, where they actually sprayed them so they would forget everything. I think someone sprayed the Opposition on some of these issues so they would have sort of collective amnesia here. Because, Mr. Speaker, you remember going back a few years, just the huge anxiety and anger around GPS [Global Positioning System]. I do not think the Government of the day, and the Honourable Member from [constituency] 18, Mr. Burt, [who] was a Member of that Government, cared at all when they rammed through GPS. There was almost no consult ation there. It was, We’re gonna drag them kicking and screaming into the 21 st century whether they like it or not. So, the question is, did the former Government care when they pushed through GPS? At least this Government, Mr. Speaker, when it was clear that there was concern about it, we backed off. I can remember the Premier and I outside the House—
[Inaudible interjections]
The Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons—I think Leo Si mmons — Hon. E. David Burt: Point of order, Mr. Speaker. Point of order. I call attention to—
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYes. POINT OF CLARIFICATION Hon. E. David Burt: —Standing Order 19(11), and I ask to offer the Member clarification in regard to . . . he was talking about backing off. His Government has made GPS mandatory.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAll right. Thank you. Thank you, Honourable Member.
The Hon. Dr. E. Grant GibbonsThe Honourable Member seems to forget it was the former Gover nment that made GPS mandatory. Bermuda House of Assembly [Inaudible interjections]
The Hon. Dr. E. Grant GibbonsBut it does prove a point in a way. It proves a point that sometimes people find that as they get adjusted to things it is not as bad as they originally thought it was. And I think we have perhaps seen a similar scenario here—a huge misunderstanding in the …
But it does prove a point in a way. It proves a point that sometimes people find that as they get adjusted to things it is not as bad as they originally thought it was. And I think we have perhaps seen a similar scenario here—a huge misunderstanding in the beginning on this when it was first tabled. The Honourable Member, [the Shadow Minister] who speaks for Transport was out running his mouth about rental cars and all the rest of it. Taxi drivers were very concerned. But we were met when the legislation went down and we . . . I was a pproached, as well as the Premier, outside by Leo Simmons and others who said, Please don’t push this through. Let’s talk about it . And we agreed to do that. And the Honourable Member who is responsible for it in another place met on multiple occasions with the Bermuda Taxi Owners Association. Leo Simmons has actually supported this even with a press release. In the meantime, they have talked to . . . as well as the dispatch companies and the Min ibus Association as well, Mr. Burgess. So I think people, now that they understand what it is about, do not seem to have much of an objection. Am I saying that every —
The SpeakerThe SpeakerYes, what is your point of order? POINT OF ORDER [Misleading]
Mr. W. Lawrence ScottThe Honourable Member is misleading the House. I am actually in communication with Mr. Leo Simmons right now, and he sa id that he agreed with this under the fact that they were not going to be coming out of Dockyard and that negative resolution would be taken out of …
The SpeakerThe SpeakerHonourable Member! Carry on please, Dr. Gibbons.
The Hon. Dr. E. Grant GibbonsYes. The issue that I am speaking to is the issue of sort of understanding what it is all about. And I think it is fair to say that there was a lot of misinformation out there and a lot of communication which, unfortunately, had to happen after the first …
Yes. The issue that I am speaking to is the issue of sort of understanding what it is all about. And I think it is fair to say that there was a lot of misinformation out there and a lot of communication which, unfortunately, had to happen after the first piece of legislation was put down. As far as the changes were concerned, they were minimal. It was simply a reduction— and this was at the request of the Bermuda Taxi Owners Associ ation—that the length be shortened and that was by five inches. So it went down from 120 down to 115. So let me tackle some of the other issues that I think have been raised in the debate today. The first one was congestion. And I think there has been some discussion about it, but the numbers (as they have been explained to me) are that we now have 3,523 fewer vehicles on the road than we did in 2008. So, actually, we have quite a few fewer vehicles.
An Hon. Member An Hon. MemberHow many?
The Hon. Dr. E. Grant GibbonsThere is room . . . it has gone from about 51,000 down to about 47,000 vehicles on the road. So, actually, the opportunity is here for some additional vehicles, particularly if you have a continu-ing decline in livery cycles. The number of vehicles we are probably estimating here on …
There is room . . . it has gone from about 51,000 down to about 47,000 vehicles on the road. So, actually, the opportunity is here for some additional vehicles, particularly if you have a continu-ing decline in livery cycles. The number of vehicles we are probably estimating here on the first go- round is probably something on the order of 250 of these minicars, which is not going to appreciably add to the congestion, particular considering we are some 3,500plus lighter than we were before. I think that the congestion is sue is one thing. We have talked a little bit about parking. The under-standing is that the Corporation of Hamilton is going to put, particularly for the ones that are electric, put facil ities on the roof of Bull’s Head and I think they would not go in cycl e parking spots, but in car parking spots as well. As far as the issue about impact on the taxi industry, I think, based on now that people understand that it is only a two- seater, because it has little or no 320 25 November 2016 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly ability to handle luggage, I think you are st ill going to find that there is almost no impact at all there. There is clearly going to be, I think, an impact on the livery c ycle business, but I think by and large given the small numbers that we are talking about here that we env ision, we are not going to have a huge change at all in terms of impact on the business. And in fact, as I said earlier, I suspect that what we are probably going to be doing is getting more visitors and seeing more vis itors. But let me touch on the polling that came up earlier , and as one Honourable Member had indicated this is a poll that is somewhat dated now, it goes back a year and a half, and I think the Shadow Minister who speaks for Transport on the other side was sort of cherry -picking pieces out of this. Let me just dr aw the Honourable House’s attention to a couple of findings, and I think this is important here—
The SpeakerThe SpeakerHelp me, Dr. Gibbons, what is the poll, actually?
The Hon. Dr. E. Grant GibbonsIt was done in May 2015, and it was looking principally at visitors’ impressions of rental cars —not minicars, it was rental cars at that particular time—and just some of the highlights which I thought were interesting: In terms of trying to determine visitors’ typical use and perceptions of the …
It was done in May 2015, and it was looking principally at visitors’ impressions of rental cars —not minicars, it was rental cars at that particular time—and just some of the highlights which I thought were interesting: In terms of trying to determine visitors’ typical use and perceptions of the various types of transportation options while in Bermuda, the results suggested that a variety of transportation options are used by visitors in Bermuda with public transit being most common, followed by taxi services. One half have rented a scooter or moped while visiting the Island, while only a few have borrowed a vehicle from a friend or relative. It went on to say as well that the majority of visitors are unlikely to use Bermuda’s scooter or moped rental services on their next trip, whether or not they have used these services in the past. Now the reason I said the Honourable [Shadow Minister] who speaks for Transport was cherry - picking was because he declined to tell the House that there was another question here which basically looked at the issue of, essentially, electric vehicles. And there was the question of whether visitors were interested in renting an electric car on their next trip t o Bermuda. The answer came back that more than 50 per cent were actually quite interested in renting an electric car, which speaks to this issue I think of a r enewable vehicle and all the rest of it. But the fact of the matter is that many of these visitor s were also vis itors who had been to the Island before. Mr. Speaker, I think Honourable Members will appreciate it is not just the ones that are returning vis i-tors that we are interested in, we are interested in attracting new visitors as well. And they ma y be turned off by not having the kinds of transportation options that we are talking about with this particular piece of legislation. So, I think those are some of the things that I need to touch on. I think I have covered most of the issues. Let me just check and see. I think there was some concern about visitors driving on the wrong side of the road. I think some of my colleagues answered that as well. But let us be honest, Mr. Speaker, we are talking about visitors who have a valid driving licence, who have experienced driving in other places, and we have thousands of what I will call “guest workers” here who have valid driver’s licences from other places. Obviously they have to go through some tes ting down at TCD [Transport Control Department]. Most of them are used to driving on the other side of the road and we have not had, as far as I can see, unless alcohol is involved, real issues there. And I think as some Honourable Members were joking earlier, most of us when we go overseas to the United States or other places, we will rent a car and we have to get used to driving on the other side of the road. I always, when I can, rent a car unless it is too dangerous, depending on where I am. I think a lot of us like to get out and explore. And I think what we are talking about here is a different transportation option that will be a good addition to the current options available to visitors. It should help us to particularly provide additional amenities to this younger demographic that we are trying to attr act here. And, quite frankly, I think you will find that a number of Bermudians will see this as an option too, as something that they might wish to rent. At some point down the road, who knows, we may be back in this House allowing these visitors . . . and there is no intention of it now by the Government, I hasten to add, allowing Bermudians to purchase and use these things as well. So, it is going to start off slowly. I think there will be clear regulations and rules around the liveries, the minicar live ries, in terms of the requirements for those, and I think safety is clearly an issue that we are all concerned about and I think this will considerably improve that, Mr. Speaker, With that, I would ask that the Bill be commi tted. Thank you, sir.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAll right. Thank you. The Minister has moved that the Bill be committed. Any objections to that? There are none, so I would like for the Deputy Speaker to please take the Chair [of Committee]. House in Committee [Mrs. Suzann Roberts -Holshouser, Chairman] Bermuda House of Assembly COMMITTEE ON BILL …
The ChairmanChairmanMembers, we are now in Committee of the whole House for further consideration of the Bill entitled Motor Car Amendment (No. 2) Act 2016 . I call on the Minister in charge to proceed. Minister, you have the floor.
The Hon. Dr. E. Grant GibbonsThank you, Madam Chairman. Madam Chairman, I am going to move clauses . . . well, there are only six of them, so I am going to move clauses 1 through 6, unless there is an objection.
The ChairmanChairmanIt has been moved that clauses 1 through 6 be moved. Are there any objections to that motion? No objections. Please proceed.
The Hon. Dr. E. Grant GibbonsThank you. Madam Chairman, as we have heard, this Bill is amending the Motor Car Act 1951 to include prov isions for a minicar livery scheme including the types of minicars that are available as a rental, the specif ications of and licence duty for these minicars, the l icence …
Thank you. Madam Chairman, as we have heard, this Bill is amending the Motor Car Act 1951 to include prov isions for a minicar livery scheme including the types of minicars that are available as a rental, the specif ications of and licence duty for these minicars, the l icence fee applicable for the operation of a minicar livery, and for additional purposes. So, clause 1 is the title of th e Bill. Clause 2 amends section 2 of the principal Act to insert the definitions of a “minicar” and a “minicar livery.” Clause 3 inserts Part VIA into the principal Act providing — (a) in sections 101A and 101B that — (i) a person must have a licence to operate a minicar livery, which can be obtained upon written application to the Minister; (ii) the Minister has the power to grant or refuse a licence, or to grant a licence with such conditions as the Minister deems fit, or revoke a licence in specified circumstances; (iii) the make or model of a livery minicar may be approved by the Minister by notice in the Gazette ; (iv) no minicar shall be rented to a person under the age of 18 years or a person who does not hold a valid driver’s licence; (v) it is an offence t o operate a minicar li very without a licence; and
(b) in section 101C the Minister has the power to regulate by order the design or build of a minicar; and (c) in section 101D the Minister has regulationmaking powers.
Clause 4 amends Schedule 1 to the principal Act to provide the specifications for a minicar. Clause 5 amends Schedule 2 to the principal Act to provide the licence duty for a livery minicar. Clause 6 provides consequential amendments to— (a) the Government Fees Regulations 1976 to insert the annual licence fee for the operation of a minicar livery; (b) the Public Holidays Act 1947 to include a minicar livery in the specified categories of r etail shops that can conduct business on a public holiday ; and (c) the Traffic Offences Procedure Act 1974 to provide where a parking offence is committed in relation to a minicar, the driver of the livery minicar, not the owner, is guilty of the parking offence.
Thank you, Madam Chairman.
The ChairmanChairmanThank you. Are there any Members that would like to speak to the Act? The Chair recognises the Member from constituency 24, the Shadow Minister of Transport. You have the floor.
Mr. W. Lawrence ScottThank you, Madam Chai rman. I just want to speak to claus e 2. Clause 2 is where it amends section 2 of the principal Act to insert the definition of a “livery motor car” and “motor car li very.” My question is that if you look at section 26 …
Thank you, Madam Chai rman. I just want to speak to claus e 2. Clause 2 is where it amends section 2 of the principal Act to insert the definition of a “livery motor car” and “motor car li very.” My question is that if you look at section 26 of the principal Act, it says that you cannot basically . . . this would make it a car for hire, a motor car for hire. Section 26 would then say that a motor car for hire cannot be “any motor car other than a public service vehicle for the carriage of passengers for hire or r eward.” So, we have to then look and say, Well, wha t is the definition of a public service vehicle? A public service vehicle is defined under the principal Act as “an omnibus, minibus, motor taxi, airport limousine, limousine, or purpose built service vehicle.” So now we have to ask ourselves what is a “purpose built service vehicle”? And a purpose built public service vehicle is found under section 10(1) of the Act, which says basically . . . it defines it as the Premier’s car or the Governor’s car, the US Cons ulate’s car, a fire -fighting . . . any vehicl e with attached fire-fighting, ambulance, self -propelled construction, special schools bus, hospitals, and government cars or police cars. 322 25 November 2016 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly “Minicar” is not defined under any of these. So the question is does that mean that they are going to make this . . . that they are going to amend section 26? Because section 26 is not part of . . . is not being amended here. Therefore, if section 26 is not being amended in this Act, that still means that minicars fall outside of being considered a car for hire, which means that they then cannot be rented, which is the whole purpose of this Bill. And since we moved all of them, did you want to just do that one or do you want me to ask the other questions?
The ChairmanChairmanThank you. The Chair recognises the Minister.
The Hon. Dr. E. Grant GibbonsThank you, Madam Chairman. I think the Honourable Member answered his own question. Minicars are not covered in section 26 and therefore there is no problem.
The ChairmanChairmanThank you. The Chair recognises the Member from constituency 24.
Mr. W. Lawrence ScottThere is a problem because section 26 defines what a car for hire is. If it is not de-fined in section 26, it cannot be used as a car for hire. That is the issue.
The ChairmanChairmanThank you. The Chair recognises the Minister.
The Hon. Dr. E. Grant GibbonsThank you, Madam Chairman. And that is precisely the point. The minicar is not a car for hire, it is a minicar and it is covered in the provisions of the Bill.
The ChairmanChairmanThe Chair recognises the Member from constituency 24.
Mr. W. Lawrence ScottBut, Madam Chairman, that is a little strange, because if you look at the Bill itself, it actually defines a minicar as a motor car for hire. So if it is being defined as a motor c ar for hire in the amendment, how are you saying that it is …
But, Madam Chairman, that is a little strange, because if you look at the Bill itself, it actually defines a minicar as a motor car for hire. So if it is being defined as a motor c ar for hire in the amendment, how are you saying that it is not a motor car for hire under the Act, under the principal Act?
The ChairmanChairmanThank you. The Chair recognises the Minister.
The Hon. Dr. E. Grant GibbonsI think this is . . . (I guess the bes t way to put it ) an issue of wording. In essence, these are minicars; they are not motor cars. But because of the way the legislation is written as the Motor Car Act we had to fit within …
I think this is . . . (I guess the bes t way to put it ) an issue of wording. In essence, these are minicars; they are not motor cars. But because of the way the legislation is written as the Motor Car Act we had to fit within that, otherwise there would have been, as it was explained to me by the draftsmen, extensive, extensive changes. So to some degree we are putting it in the Motor Car Act, but, in fact, it is a separate class. They are minicars. And the Bill provides for the rental and hire of minicars, not motor cars.
The ChairmanChairmanThank you. The Chair recognises the Member from constituency 24.
Mr. W. Lawrence ScottIf you go to TCD, TCD will tell you any vehicle that is driven on our roads with a steering wheel is considered a motor car, whether it is a minicar . . . you have got the Mini Cooper out there, that is still a car. So, Madam Chairman, …
If you go to TCD, TCD will tell you any vehicle that is driven on our roads with a steering wheel is considered a motor car, whether it is a minicar . . . you have got the Mini Cooper out there, that is still a car. So, Madam Chairman, the fact that it i s defined . . . they came up with the definition here. And from what the Minister is saying, the way that they are trying to do this is to shortcut and just basically cut and paste and make it as expedient as possible, but not as robust as it should be. Therefore, this Bill does not legitimise rental cars or the renting of minicars because they are not covered under section 26. And what the Minister has said is that they just do not want to change section 26 so they are going to try to do a shortcut. And th at shortcut still does not address it, which means that if we pass this Bill today and a taxi driver were to take the Government to court for allo wing somebody to do this, they could because it is not covered under the Law. The Law does not allow it. The judge would interpret it as not being in the confines of section 26. So they need . . . I suggest that the Minister really . . . well, rise and report progress just to at least make this amendment, which he said should be going on but they are choosing not to do it and they are tr ying to find another way. So, he should rise and report progress to allow that this is a robust Bill that actually ends up providing the objective that they desire.
The ChairmanChairmanThank you, Member. The Chair recognises the Minist er.
The Hon. Dr. E. Grant GibbonsYes, thank you, Madam Chairman. The Honourable Member has misquoted me terribly. What I have said is that this Bill clearly authorises minicars and minicars available for hire, it clearly authorises minicar liveries. There is no issue. It is a provision in the Bill to precisely authorise this, so there …
Yes, thank you, Madam Chairman. The Honourable Member has misquoted me terribly. What I have said is that this Bill clearly authorises minicars and minicars available for hire, it clearly authorises minicar liveries. There is no issue. It is a provision in the Bill to precisely authorise this, so there is not a problem. So, we are simply going to have to agree to disagree.
The ChairmanChairmanThank you. The Chair recognises the Member from constituency 24. Bermuda House of Assembly Mr. W. Lawrence S cott: One thing that I agree on with the Minister is that the principle of this Bill is to make minicars for hire legal. Where I disagree is that the letter of …
Thank you. The Chair recognises the Member from constituency 24.
Bermuda House of Assembly Mr. W. Lawrence S cott: One thing that I agree on with the Minister is that the principle of this Bill is to make minicars for hire legal. Where I disagree is that the letter of the . . . the black and white does not do that. So, there is a difference between the spirit of the legislation and the actual legislation itself. And we have seen time and time again that legislation that has been passed in this House with the spirit not meeting up with the letter of the law being overturned in court, which would be an embarrassment . I am actually d oing the Government a favour by stopping them from being embarrassed in court. So they need to amend section 26 to allow . . . all they would have to do is . . . because what they are trying to do is stop from having to create a separate section. What they should do, if anything, is say a car for hire to include a minicar. If they would just make that amendment to include minicars, then that would mean that they could then be considered a car for hire under section 26. But they do not want to do that, Madam Chairman. Do you know why? Because if they include it as a car for hire under section 26, they would then actually inadvertently be making it a public service v ehicle, Madam Chairman. And if they made it a public service vehicle then that is where other regulations come in, meaning that public . . . because remember, a car for hire is a public service vehicle and that would . . . anybody getting a licence to drive a public service vehicle would actually have to go to Public Service Vehicle s Licensing Board. And in order to do . . . and that is where the confusion comes. So therefore, once again, this is why they do not want to do it and do it robustly, which means that even the spirit and the letter of our original . . . and the principal A ct is against the renting of motor cars.
The ChairmanChairmanThank you, Member. The Chair recognises the Minister.
The Hon. Dr. E. Grant GibbonsThank you, Madam Chairman. I think the Honourable Member explained why his suggestion that it needs to come under [section] 26 is a bad idea. We have got this; it is a separate class of vehicles and we want it to stay that way. So there is nothing further for …
The ChairmanChairmanThank you. Are there any other Members that would like to speak to the Motor Car Act? The Chair recognises the Member from constituency 6. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Thank you, Madam Chai rman. We are discussing [clauses] 1 through 6, correct?
The ChairmanChairmanYes, we are. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: I just want to ask the Mini ster, it says in 101B(i) the Minister may on a written application may grant a licence to operate a livery.
The ChairmanChairmanClause 3? Under clause 3, right? [New Part VIA] 101B? Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Under [clause] 2.
The ChairmanChairmanClause 3. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: I am sorry, [clause] 3, yes. I did not see the top part, yes, under [clause] 3.
The ChairmanChairmanOkay. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Does the Minister have any idea how many licences the Minister is considering giving out? And if I ask for a licence tomorrow, assuming I meet these qualifications as far as [the] conditions attached and locations and stuff, what will stop me from getting one? …
Okay.
Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Does the Minister have any idea how many licences the Minister is considering giving out? And if I ask for a licence tomorrow, assuming I meet these qualifications as far as [the] conditions attached and locations and stuff, what will stop me from getting one? Do you have any idea what will stop me from just . . . just that the Minister may not like me or something? I mean, how will that work? Do you have any idea on that?
The ChairmanChairmanThank you, Member. The Chair recognises the Minister.
The Hon. Dr. E. Grant GibbonsI am not sure, Madam Chairman, that I can answer a hypothetical question like that. Whether the Minister likes him or not is not part of the application procedure that will be there. It was not part of the application procedure for a cycle livery either. Very similar language is …
I am not sure, Madam Chairman, that I can answer a hypothetical question like that. Whether the Minister likes him or not is not part of the application procedure that will be there. It was not part of the application procedure for a cycle livery either. Very similar language is being used here that was used for a cycle livery, if the Honourable Member wants to look it up. You know, I am not sure how to answer what would stop him tomorrow. Clearly, he could not implement it tomorrow because there would need to be an inspection by a TCD inspector. They would have to go out. They would have to look at the . . . there needs to be an approval of the vehicle that the Honourable Member wants to bring in. So there are all sorts of issues that have to fit within that —size, horsepower, or kilowatt hour if it is electric. So all that needs to be looked at. But, i n principle, there is nothing stopping him or any other Bermudian coming forward with a pr oposal and making an application to the Minister.
The ChairmanChairmanThank you. Are there any other Members . . . the Chair recognises the Member from constituency 6. Hon. Michael J. Scott: Thirty -six. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Six. 324 25 November 2016 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly The Chairman: Six, sorry. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: And I …
Thank you. Are there any other Members . . . the Chair recognises the Member from constituency 6. Hon. Michael J. Scott: Thirty -six. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Six.
324 25 November 2016 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly The Chairman: Six, sorry.
Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: And I think you got to the point that I was trying to get at. That there are really no limits on how many licences can be given. I am as-suming that based on the livery cycles, which makes sense for their business, for them to apply. So that is the five that you [mentioned], it is only five or six, and then possibly new ones, and there could be many [new ones]. Is it somewhere in the Act? I thought I heard or read where it talked about you could get up to a maximum of 25 vehicles towards a licence. Did I read that somewhere or is that so?
The ChairmanChairmanThank you, Member. The Chair recognises the Minister.
The Hon. Dr. E. Grant GibbonsYes, th ank you. I guess it depends on whether you look at this as a glass is half -empty or a glass is half -full problem. I did say, when I was wrapping up the debate in the House, that the initial perception by the Ministry or the Department …
Yes, th ank you. I guess it depends on whether you look at this as a glass is half -empty or a glass is half -full problem. I did say, when I was wrapping up the debate in the House, that the initial perception by the Ministry or the Department of Public Transportation is you are probably looking at something on the order of 250 of these, if all of those who have already . . . his cousin or whoever, plus others, come forward and make their pr oposal. But I think you have got to give some credit to the Department of Public Transportation to be sensible about this. I think, no, there is no limit on the number of minicar liveries. There is no limit on the number of auxiliary cycle liveries either. But I think, clearly, there are supply and demand issues here. I think, y ou know, those that are off the bat pretty quick on this will pro bably do well until somebody comes along with a much better minicar. And maybe it is electric, maybe its gas, who knows, and everybody thinks it is a great little rental minicar. So, you know, I am not sure where we are going here, but I think the answer is that the Depar tment will obviously be conservative about this. They are concerned about safety. They are concerned about the ability of the livery to have appropriate m echanics, training areas, and all those sorts of issues. So those will obviously be clearer in due course. Thank you.
The ChairmanChairmanThank you. Are there any other Members that would like to speak to the Bill? The Chair recognises the Member from constituency 36. Hon. Mi chael J. Scott: Thank you, Madam Chairman. A question for the Minister: I wanted to understand what the weight of this vehicle will be. I …
Thank you. Are there any other Members that would like to speak to the Bill? The Chair recognises the Member from constituency 36. Hon. Mi chael J. Scott: Thank you, Madam Chairman. A question for the Minister: I wanted to understand what the weight of this vehicle will be. I know from the principal Bill weight is in place in the specif ications section. But will the weight ratio to this engi ne ratio to the people in the car produce a minicar that is quiet on our roads, or is it going to be, you know, a screaming, struggling banshee? And the second question I have is, am I right in . . . I mean, I do assume that there will be an insurance fac tor when these things are rented. Thank you.
The ChairmanChairmanThank you. The Chair recognises the Minister.
The Hon. Dr. E. Grant GibbonsYes, thank you, I appreciate the questions of the Honourable Member . I think it would be fair to say that TCD is going to look at these in the same way they would other v ehicles in terms of the noise factor. I think the last thing we want …
Yes, thank you, I appreciate the questions of the Honourable Member . I think it would be fair to say that TCD is going to look at these in the same way they would other v ehicles in terms of the noise factor. I think the last thing we want if we are trying to add additional amenities is to have screaming banshees going down the street with no mufflers and all the rest of it. So, I suspect that the Ministry and the Department of Transportation will be pretty careful in terms of what is and what is not approved. Obviously the electric ones are basically silent, so there is not an issue there. The Honourable Member talke d about weight. Generally, these things are quite a bit lighter than a Class A car. The electric ones will have batteries, so that will probably increase the weight a little bit. But on the other hand, you are still talking about something which is going t o be a lot less weighty than a car. It does allow me to make a comment. When we were in the House, the Honourable Opposition Leader talked about one particular model, which is a Twizy, as being able to go about 80 kilometres per hour. That will not be the case here for the simple reason that the kilowatts are limited. So you are looking at a top speed which has got almost a governor on it in that sense. So they will not be able to go at the same speed that these Renault [Twizy] vehicles are allowed to do in Europe, where they are all over the place, actually, if I understand it correctly. So I hope that answers the Honourable Member ’s questions.
[Inaudible interjection]
The Hon. Dr. E. Grant GibbonsInsurance? Yes, I think . . . I do not know exactly what will be required. But I am assuming that it will be very parallel to what a cycle livery would normally have to do now, where they will have to have essentially third- party insurance. Whether they will …
Insurance? Yes, I think . . . I do not know exactly what will be required. But I am assuming that it will be very parallel to what a cycle livery would normally have to do now, where they will have to have essentially third- party insurance. Whether they will also offer personal insurance as well for medical reasons . . . I just do not know. I do not know what cycle liveries do now.
[Inaudible interjections]
The Hon. Dr. E. Grant GibbonsClearly, they have to have third party and the cycle livery itself has to have liability as well. They are chirping in the background that I should declare my interest. I do not even know if we Bermuda House of Assembly insure cycle liveries or not. I suspect it is …
Clearly, they have to have third party and the cycle livery itself has to have liability as well. They are chirping in the background that I should declare my interest. I do not even know if we
Bermuda House of Assembly insure cycle liveries or not. I suspect it is rather a bad thing to insure, they are probably pretty risky. So, anyway, I just do not know. I think the insurance will need to be sorted out. But clearly, clearly there is liability there and that liability will need to be covered. Thank you.
The ChairmanChairmanThank you. Are there any other Members that would like to speak to the Bill? The Chair recognises the Member from constituency 29. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Thank you, Madam Chai rman. I would like to ask the Minister what he is . . . is there going …
Thank you. Are there any other Members that would like to speak to the Bill? The Chair recognises the Member from constituency 29. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Thank you, Madam Chai rman. I would like to ask the Minister what he is . . . is there going to be any certification of those that are going to teach these tourists to operate the vehicles like they do the livery cycles? So, will you have any certification requirements? Also, will there be any training grounds that will have to be available to teach these tourists, like the livery cycles?
The ChairmanChairmanThank you. The Chair recognises the Minister.
The Hon. Dr. E. Grant GibbonsYes, thank you, Madam Chairman. The answer is, I believe we talked in the brief about the need for safety and for training, so, yes. I think clearly these are slightly larger vehicles than a livery cycle so there will be, I am sure, in terms of the conditions for …
Yes, thank you, Madam Chairman. The answer is, I believe we talked in the brief about the need for safety and for training, so, yes. I think clearly these are slightly larger vehicles than a livery cycle so there will be, I am sure, in terms of the conditions for a minicar livery, additional precautions that will need to be taken. You are also looking to make sure these people have a valid licence as well. So you are . . . and nobody under the age of 18 would be allowed to rent them. I think in terms of training I am assuming that there will need to be provision in the regulations for that. And yes, there will be a requirement for certific ation of those who are actually doing the teaching or training of visitors.
The ChairmanChairmanThank you. And I would remind the Member that I cannot have two people standing at the same time, but I will recognise him as soon as the person speaking sits. But the Chair recognises the Member from constituency 29. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Madam Chairman, I get …
Thank you. And I would remind the Member that I cannot have two people standing at the same time, but I will recognise him as soon as the person speaking sits. But the Chair recognises the Member from constituency 29. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Madam Chairman, I get so excited sometimes when you are in that Chair I cannot help myself. I am sorry. [Laughter]
Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: But now the Minister just said he assumes that it is going to be in the regul a-tions, and I think that is very important. I will certai nly—
The ChairmanChairmanWould you yield for a point of clarific ation? Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: But you just said we cannot both stand at the same time.
The ChairmanChairmanWould you yield for . . . I did. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Sure.
The ChairmanChairmanThank you very much. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Now don’t you be smart.
The ChairmanChairmanThank you very much. The Chair recognises the Minister. POINT OF CLARIFICATION
The Hon. Dr. E. Grant GibbonsI have a confirming note from the technical officer that the certification will be in the regulations.
The ChairmanChairmanThank you. Are there any other . . . the Chair recognises the Member from constituency 29. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: To be clear, when we say “certification,” we are talking about certification of the trainers? I am not talking about — [Inaudible interjection] Hon. Zane J. S. …
Thank you. Are there any other . . . the Chair recognises the Member from constituency 29. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: To be clear, when we say “certification,” we are talking about certification of the trainers? I am not talking about —
[Inaudible interjection]
Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Okay. All right. Who is going to do that training, Minister?
The ChairmanChairmanNo. Right, thank you. The Chair recognises the Minister, and if you would, when you stand to your feet, answer that question so the people could hear it because you just went on without having the luxury of the public hearing your answer. Thank you.
The Hon. Dr. E. Grant GibbonsThank you, Madam Chairman. I am afraid at this point I do not know the name of who will be doing that training. 326 25 November 2016 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly The Chairman: Thank you. The Chair recognises the Member from constituency 29. Hon. Zane J. S. …
Thank you, Madam Chairman. I am afraid at this point I do not know the name of who will be doing that training.
326 25 November 2016 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly The Chairman: Thank you. The Chair recognises the Member from constituency 29.
Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Okay. And I do not know if the Minister actually answered the question about the training grounds. Because, Madam Chairman, you will be aware, certainly with the livery cycles, they do actually have grounds in which there are, you know, little turnarounds and things like that. With these being cars and not cycles, I was just wondering what assurance the Minister is going to give us that they will actually have . . . and with land being so valuable in Bermuda and there has been a lot of talk about Dockyard. But I would hope that there will be some entrepreneurs in other parts of the Island as well. So what is the Minister . . . can the Minister confirm that the training grounds will be . . . I mean, is there some kind of design so that if an entrepreneur wishes to go in this business they know what the stipu-lation is, they know what the regulation is going to be in terms of size th at may be needed for a training ground?
The ChairmanChairmanYes, thank you, Member. The Chair recognises the Minister.
The Hon. Dr. E. Grant GibbonsYes, I thank the Honourable Member for that question. The answer is yes. There will be regulations. As you wi ll know, Madam Chairman, you cannot bring regulations until you have actually got the Bill passed. But there will be regulations setting out specifications for training grounds and things of …
Yes, I thank the Honourable Member for that question. The answer is yes. There will be regulations. As you wi ll know, Madam Chairman, you cannot bring regulations until you have actually got the Bill passed. But there will be regulations setting out specifications for training grounds and things of that sort. But I will take the opportunity while I am on my feet . . . the Minister has actually said to me that he is concerned about the existing requirements for auxiliary cycles as well. And I have had a quick look through them and they are pretty light right now. So I think there will be an effort not only to make sure that there are appropriate provisions in place for minicar liveries, but also they (the Ministry) will be upping the requir ements for auxiliary cycle rentals as well. We had enough comments in the House about the carnage on our roads and deaths of vis itors, so I think it is important to use this opportunity to improve the safety features of both vehicles. Thank you.
The ChairmanChairmanThank you, Minister. Are there any other Members . . . the Chair recognises the Member from constituency 29. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Thank you, Madam Chai rman. Minister, you said a moment ago . . . you mentioned about the age limit, obviously being at least 18 …
Thank you, Minister. Are there any other Members . . . the Chair recognises the Member from constituency 29.
Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Thank you, Madam Chai rman. Minister, you said a moment ago . . . you mentioned about the age limit, obviously being at least 18 years of age. Will there be any . . . what happens if you have tourists that come to Bermuda and they are over 65? Because currently with our seniors in the I sland some of our seniors have to get tested every year in order to get their licence renewed. So what is the stipulation for tourists who are over the age of 65?
The ChairmanChairmanThank you, Member. The Chair recognises the Minister.
The Hon. Dr. E. Grant GibbonsMadam Chairman, I think that is an ageist comment. There are many people over the age of 65 who are quite capable of dri ving. Let us be practical here. If someone is blind and decrepit, I do not think anybody is going to be allowing them into a minicar …
Madam Chairman, I think that is an ageist comment. There are many people over the age of 65 who are quite capable of dri ving. Let us be practical here. If someone is blind and decrepit, I do not think anybody is going to be allowing them into a minicar —
Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Are you talking about Pat like that?
The Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons—or an auxiliary cycle. So I think . . . and I am not thinking about som ebody who is 65 or over; I am jus t saying [that] there are liability issues here and I think . . . you know, I hope most auxiliary cycle liveries now carefully …
—or an auxiliary cycle. So I think . . . and I am not thinking about som ebody who is 65 or over; I am jus t saying [that] there are liability issues here and I think . . . you know, I hope most auxiliary cycle liveries now carefully look at the visitor because they are liable as well if they let somebody on the road and they create havoc. I am sure there will probably be a provision in the regul ations for the age issue and in terms of the requir ements for the licence that needs to be presented to be able to rent a minicar. Thank you.
The ChairmanChairmanThank you. Are there any other Members that would like to speak? The Chair recognises the Member from constituency 29. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Thank you, Madam Chai rman. And I would certainly advise the Minister to not talk about his colleagues when it comes to age and …
Thank you. Are there any other Members that would like to speak? The Chair recognises the Member from constituency 29.
Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Thank you, Madam Chai rman. And I would certainly advise the Minister to not talk about his colleagues when it comes to age and not being able to see. Colleagues on that side of the House, that is. But Madam Chairman, you know, I do not want to beat this one to death, but it is very i mportant —
[Inaudible interjection] Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: It is very important because, you know, our current law, when it comes to seniors, especially those that may be over 70 . . . now it is okay for the ministers to say that, Well, I am sure that people are going to be responsible, and things like that. But you will know . . . and what is to stop one of our seniors that has been turned down by TCD . . . because as you may know, Madam Chairman, seniors . . . and certainly my stepmother is one of them, who
Bermuda House of Assembly had to go for a test just a few months ago because . . . and she was a little disappointed in that they failed her. So she can no longer drive, even though she felt in her mind she could drive. So my question to the Minister is, even though someone may come to Bermuda and they may pr oduce their driver’s licence, what is the difference between our locals that are subject to these laws and some of our tourists? The other question I would have for the Mini ster is, suppose one of our seniors goes to TCD and they fail and they say, Well, look, I tell you what, if there is no law against rental cars . . . they might have failed me down at TCD, but I am just gonna go up and see Lawrence Scott who opened up a rental car bus iness. I will just go up there and rent one of his. And as we know, some of the livery companies . . . and I am not sure if the Members on that side realise this, and I will declare my interest in a livery cycle business. Certainly I can tell you that when it comes to some of our locals, some of our locals rent bikes on a year -to-year basis because they do not want the headache of having to take it through TCD every year. And you know when the livery cycles are going in for testing, they just give them another bike when they take that one. So, you know, this is a fact. Some of our Bermudians do that. So I would certainly appreciate an answer on those two questions.
The ChairmanChairmanThank you, Member. The Chair recognises the Minister.
The Hon. Dr. E. Grant GibbonsYes, thank you, Madam Chairman. I think the current rule is that if you are 65 you have got to be . . . or under 72, you have got to be tested every five years. And then over 72 it is every two years . . . or maybe …
The Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbo nsEvery two years? Up to 75 it is two [years] and over 75 it is every year. Now, I will say that my father, my late father, was driving up until 93 and was severely . . . severely disappointed when his licence was not renewed at 93. It did …
Every two years? Up to 75 it is two [years] and over 75 it is every year. Now, I will say that my father, my late father, was driving up until 93 and was severely . . . severely disappointed when his licence was not renewed at 93. It did give the rest of the family a great sigh of relief, particularly as the mirrors were missing on the car.
[Laughter]
The Hon. Dr. E. Grant GibbonsBut I think the si mple answer to this is the Minister has given an under-taking that he is going to talk to Age Concern a bout this. Clearly, we do not want somebody to be able to, as it were, get away with it if they are simply renting …
But I think the si mple answer to this is the Minister has given an under-taking that he is going to talk to Age Concern a bout this. Clearly, we do not want somebody to be able to, as it were, get away with it if they are simply renting a minicar, but if they had to be tested more rigorously for a normal car . . . So, I think that will need to be sorted out. And I think the Honourable Member makes a valid point that this is something that will need to be looked at in terms of how you deal with older people. I suspect . . . I suspect that right now it is handled in a practical way by cycle liveries, auxiliary cycle liveries. Probably if somebody looks like they can ha ndle it at 70 and they are spry and with it, then they will let them on the bike. But, you know, if they are 65 and sort of literally falling apart, then they probably are not going to let them ride the bike. So t here needs to be a certain amount of common sense here. But I take the Honourable Member ’s point. It needs to be looked at. The Minister has said he will speak to Age Concern and try and get a better understanding of how we would address this. Thank you.
The ChairmanChairmanThank you. Are there any other Members that would like to speak to the Bill? The Chair recognises the Member from constituency 29. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Thank you, Madam Chai rman. My last question (I hope) for the Minister is he talke d earlier about the kilowatts …
Thank you. Are there any other Members that would like to speak to the Bill? The Chair recognises the Member from constituency 29. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Thank you, Madam Chai rman. My last question (I hope) for the Minister is he talke d earlier about the kilowatts and talked about the electric cars having governors. And my question to him would be, not all of these, as I understand it, will be electric. Some may be gas. So what is the Minister planning to do with the entrepreneur that, you know, wants to bring in a gas powered vehicle which can be a little bit more powerful than the electric ones?
The ChairmanChairmanThank you, Member. The Chair recognises the Minister.
The Hon. Dr. E. Grant GibbonsYes, thank you, Madam Chairman. I think this speaks directly to the issue of what TCD is prepared to license as a minicar. And I think, clearly, clearly, there are two sides to this coin. If the thing will only go 20 mph [miles per hour] we will have a …
Yes, thank you, Madam Chairman. I think this speaks directly to the issue of what TCD is prepared to license as a minicar. And I think, clearly, clearly, there are two sides to this coin. If the thing will only go 20 mph [miles per hour] we will have a different problem on our hands with everyb ody and their grandmother trying to pass it on the road. So there has got to be some balance here. I am not the technical expert as to what they will license or not. There are clear provisions in the Bill as to what the maximum amounts are, but the TCD wil l have to look at it. We all know that the livery cycles will clearly exceed the speed limit and so, I think, again, this is going to be a matter where I think we have to be practical and allow TCD to essentially make the regulations and license the speci fic vehicles according to their concerns about safety and all the rest of it, not only for the person driving it but also for other road users. Thank you.
328 25 November 2016 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly The Chairman: Thank you. Are there any other Members that would like to speak? The Chair recognises the Member from constituency 29.
Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Thank you, Madam Chai rman. Minister, with regard to these rental vehicles, was there any thought given to having a time r estriction? In particular, I think it was the Honoura ble former Tourism Minister Crockwell that pointed out when he lived in the west, as I do now, that . . . I know that if you leave Whale Bay after 7:20 in the morning, you are looking at , at least an hour -and-15-minute drive. You might get away with an hour and five minutes when the schools are in. Was there any di scussion with regard to maybe restricting these veh icles, especially coming from the West End of the I sland, so that the traffic congestion that we who live up in the west all know can be very, very frustrating dur-ing the working week . . . was there any time frame restriction discussed when they were looking at brin ging this legislation?
The ChairmanChairmanThank you, Member. The Chair recognises the Minister.
The Hon. Dr. E. Grant GibbonsNo. The B ill does not envision any restriction in that sense. I do reme mber, though, the former Government talking about ha ving restricted zones in Hamilton. I guess they never moved ahead with it. But Singapore, London and other places have restrictions and additi onal fees associated with …
No. The B ill does not envision any restriction in that sense. I do reme mber, though, the former Government talking about ha ving restricted zones in Hamilton. I guess they never moved ahead with it. But Singapore, London and other places have restrictions and additi onal fees associated with . . . if you are in a particular zone or area, partic ularly in the mid -city, at certain hours. So I do not know if the Honourable Member is suggesting that or not, but I think clearly with respect to this . . . no, there is no pro vision here for restricting hours on this. We do restrict other vehicles, I think, like dumpster trailers and others which the Honourable Member may be familiar with, but —
The ChairmanChairmanThank you. Are there any other Members that would like to speak to the Motor Car Amendment Bill? The Chair recognises the Member from constituency 21.
The ChairmanChairmanI just need to hear the one Member.
Mr. Rolfe CommissiongThank you, Madam Chai rman. The issue of safety comes to mind. Perhaps this will be dealt with in the subsequent regulations, but seat belts? I was wondering if you can please a ddress that, whether they will be required. Secondly, again, I want to come back to this issue …
Thank you, Madam Chai rman. The issue of safety comes to mind. Perhaps this will be dealt with in the subsequent regulations, but seat belts? I was wondering if you can please a ddress that, whether they will be required. Secondly, again, I want to come back to this issue that at a time when we should be reducing our carbon footprint why was the decision made to provide for minicars that use fossil fuels? Again, it just sends the wrong signal. The Minister himself who is shepherding this through the House right now is respons ible for jump- starting, if you will, our green revolution. I know he spoke recently about putting out to tender the . . . so we could establish, or have a solar farm established down at the finger (what it is called) down at the airport. So to me this, again, sends the wrong signal. And I do not think the desire to accommodate a parti cular entrepreneur in this case justifies us to going back or moving in such a retrograde way by allowing anot her category of vehicle to spew harmful emissions. Is the Minister prepared to even consider pulling this pr ovision by just making sure we can just go with the electric generated vehicles? Certainly we saw the demonstration, or B ermuda saw a demonstration of the potential of that only a week ago with Messrs Robinson and Bulford with respect to the vehicle they wish to bring to the market. And I believe there is another entrepreneurial group that is looking to do the same in terms of electrically generated power units for their minicars. Again, is there any consideration to eliminating that category of vehicles with respect to the minicar proposal?
The ChairmanChairmanThank you, Member. The Chair recognises the Minister.
The Hon. Dr. E. Grant GibbonsThanks, Madam Chairman. To his first question on seat belts, the answer is yes, they will be required. With respect to only allowing electrical rental minicars, while I may be sympathetic to what the Honourable Member is saying, I think there was consider ation about this. Part of what we …
Thanks, Madam Chairman. To his first question on seat belts, the answer is yes, they will be required. With respect to only allowing electrical rental minicars, while I may be sympathetic to what the Honourable Member is saying, I think there was consider ation about this. Part of what we are trying to do here is provide entrepreneurial activities for others out there and I suspect probably what will happen is, based on the polling we saw that was referred to earlier, visitors are pretty conscious about green and renewable. And I suspect you will probably see quite a few of them will migrate to what I will call the quieter, cleaner electric ones for a bunch of reasons. But right now this is available to both electric and gas powered. And who
Bermuda House of Assembly knows? Down the road in a couple of years, it may be pretty clear that we want to restrict it. I like the idea of electric, but I think at this point they are . . . because it is a new class of vehicle the Ministry felt it should be open to both.
The ChairmanChairmanThank you. Are there any other Members that would like speak? The Chair recognises the Member from constituency 21.
Mr. Rolfe CommissiongWell, it is clear that the Mi nister, by way of his response, is indicating that this category of minicar was placed here to accommodate an entrepreneur. I frankly am of the view that this is not justification enough. Certainly, if these other entr epreneurs could go and find appropriate …
Well, it is clear that the Mi nister, by way of his response, is indicating that this category of minicar was placed here to accommodate an entrepreneur. I frankly am of the view that this is not justification enough. Certainly, if these other entr epreneurs could go and find appropriate electrically generated vehicles, then this entrepreneur who we are accom modating here (I do not know who it is) could have done the same thing. And I just think, again, it sends the wrong message at the wrong time here.
The ChairmanChairmanThank you, Member. The Chair recognises . . . are there any other Members that would like to speak? The Chair recognises the Member from constituency 25 [sic].
Mr. W. Lawrence ScottGood day, Madam Chai rman. My question comes under clause 3 where the Minister in the amendment says that he is going to grant licences to drive these rental cars under [section] 76(1). When you look at [section] 76(1) of the princ ipal Act, it does state about the examinations, …
Good day, Madam Chai rman. My question comes under clause 3 where the Minister in the amendment says that he is going to grant licences to drive these rental cars under [section] 76(1). When you look at [section] 76(1) of the princ ipal Act, it does state about the examinations, whi ch is what was mentioned in the Minister’s brief. The question I have is that when you look at examinations and satisfaction of an examiner, the definition in the princ ipal Act of “examiner” is someone who is appointed by the Governor —not the Minister. Therefore, how are we going to get examiners to provide the testing for these rental cars when they are not at TCD? I will let the Minister . . . I will go on to a second question to allow the Minister to get answers because my understanding is that a good w ay to do that would be to go under section 76A, which is a prov isional driver’s licence. But the question with that one is under section 76A the provisional driver’s licence asks for a physical fitness signed off by a registered medical practitioner. So ho w would we get around that if [section] 76(1) and the examination and the examiner does not work? So then you would actually have to look un-der probably section 80, but section 80 reaffirms the physical fitness. But why would they not put it under section 84 of the principal Act, which is special provisions concerning issuing of driver’s licences and learner’s per-mits to visitors, which actually talks about what the Minister mentioned earlier about approved driver’s licence given off of a foreign authority ? And so why would they not do that and just amend the number of days that are in section 84 from . . . and just take it out from 30 [days] and just let it be from the time that that provisional licence was issued? And I will give it to the Minister.
The ChairmanChairmanThank you very much. The Chair recognises the Minister.
The Hon. Dr. E. Grant GibbonsThank you, Madam Chairman. In regard to the first question about the Go vernor’s involvement, the Honourable Member will know this is a pretty old piece of l egislation, at least by his standards (it is not that old by mine). But it goes back to 1951. And in those …
Thank you, Madam Chairman. In regard to the first question about the Go vernor’s involvement, the Honourable Member will know this is a pretty old piece of l egislation, at least by his standards (it is not that old by mine). But it goes back to 1951. And in those days a lot of stuff was done with the Governor having approval for it, so I do not think it has been changed. What I have been told is that custom and practice does not have any involvement by the Governor in terms of public service vehicle licens-ing requirements right now. It is an archaic thing in there. With regard to the issue of the licence, [section] 76(1) refers to a local driver’s licence, and obviously those requirements will not change. So you ei-ther present a local driver’s licence or you present a foreign one. And to some degree, it is in the same way that Bermudians can go to Massachusetts right now, as long as you do not go on Enterprise —
[Laughter]
The Hon. Dr. E. Grant Gibbons—you can present your Bermuda driver’s licence, and they assume that the due diligence is done on the Bermuda end. We will have to assume that, and it will be in the regulations which driver’s licences will be recog-nised as valid. We will have to assume that appropr iate testing …
—you can present your Bermuda driver’s licence, and they assume that the due diligence is done on the Bermuda end. We will have to assume that, and it will be in the regulations which driver’s licences will be recog-nised as valid. We will have to assume that appropr iate testing was done to give that person, in that juri sdiction from which they came, a driver’s licence. So I think we are going to have to take it, to some degree, on faith and not necessarily requi re them to get a Bermuda driver’s licence to be able to drive a minicar.
The ChairmanChairmanThank you. The Chair recognises the Member from constituency 24.
Mr. W. Lawrence ScottI understand the points that the Minister is making, but my suggestion is why would we not put it under section 84, which already has all 330 25 November 2016 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly those recognitions of somebody providing a United States driver’s licence, a New Zealand …
I understand the points that the Minister is making, but my suggestion is why would we not put it under section 84, which already has all 330 25 November 2016 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly those recognitions of somebody providing a United States driver’s licence, a New Zealand driver’s l icence? It already has that, and all they would actually have to do is just basically remove the 30- day r equirement for visitors because it is visitors that are going to be driving these rental cars. So if they put it u nder . . . why would they not put it under section 84, which is entitled “Special provisions concerning issue of drivers’ licences and learners’ permits to visitors”?
The ChairmanChairmanThank you, Member. The Chair recognises the Minister.
The ChairmanChairmanNo, the Chair recognises the Minister.
The Hon. Dr. E. Grant GibbonsYes, I think the si mple answer to that is when the drafts people looked at that and they looked at what the Department or the Ministry was trying to do, this is the way they d ecided to draft it. Unfortunately, the draftsperson is not here right now. They …
Yes, I think the si mple answer to that is when the drafts people looked at that and they looked at what the Department or the Ministry was trying to do, this is the way they d ecided to draft it. Unfortunately, the draftsperson is not here right now. They may be able to provide a more tec hnical explanation as to why they did not use section 84, but you know this is the way they decided to do it.
The ChairmanChairmanThank you. The Chair recognises the Member from constituency 24.
Mr. W. Lawrence ScottNow, I will move on to the other thing. And this actually comes under clause 3, basically under [new] sections 101C and 101D. And . . . yes, [new sections] 101C and 101D. And there ar e two things. We have talked about it at length in the general debate …
Now, I will move on to the other thing. And this actually comes under clause 3, basically under [new] sections 101C and 101D. And . . . yes, [new sections] 101C and 101D. And there ar e two things. We have talked about it at length in the general debate about the taxi drivers and their apprehension when it was first brought to them. It was also stated that the Minister consulted with the taxi industry and came to a resolution with at le ast one of them, with one of the taxi industries. But I have also been in communication as recent as just a few minutes ago with that same individual, and they have made me aware that part of the Minister’s compromise, to put it politely, was that these ve hicles would not be rented out of Dockyard and that it would all be done under positive resolution, not negative resolution. Why are those two . . . why is that agreement not seen or reflected in this Bill?
The ChairmanChairmanThank you, Member. The Chair rec ognises the Minister. [Pause]
The ChairmanChairmanThank you. The Chair recognises the Minister.
The Hon. Dr. E. Grant GibbonsYes, thank you, Madam Chairman. I just wanted to get a better understanding because, obviously, I was not in those meetings. With respect to the comments about Doc kyard, I think the understanding I have from the substantive Minister is that they . . . if there were, in fact, …
Yes, thank you, Madam Chairman. I just wanted to get a better understanding because, obviously, I was not in those meetings. With respect to the comments about Doc kyard, I think the understanding I have from the substantive Minister is that they . . . if there were, in fact, minicar liveries in Dockyard —and that is an if—that there would be, because of concerns about conges-tion, cer tainly a limitation on the numbers that would be available up there. So that was one issue. With respect to affirmative or negative resol ution, what the Minister did undertake was that in terms of size and the types of the vehicles and the rest of that there would be, essentially, consultation with the taxi [drivers] and probably others before those regul ations actually come or are done at all. So I think the issue is there will be consultation beforehand, but I do not think there was a . . . with respec t to something like size or changes in the size or things of that sort, that would clearly have to come back to the House as affirmative. But in terms of some of the regulations around the liveries themselves, that is negative resol ution as is in the Bill. Thank you.
The ChairmanChairmanThank you. The Chair recognises the Member from constituency 29. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chairman. Minister, you just said that there—
The ChairmanChairmanCan you help us with the . . . with the— Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Clause 3(8).
The ChairmanChairman—clause. Yes . . . [Inaudible interjection] Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Yes, it is clause 3(8). I have got it highlighted here.
The ChairmanChairmanWe do not have a 3(a), so do you want to help us out a little better? Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Sorry, [clause] three — eight.
The ChairmanChairman[Clause] three—eight. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: No, the Minister — [Inaudible interjection] Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: [Clause] 3(8). Bermuda House of Assembly
The ChairmanChairmanYes, there is a [clause] 3(8). [Inaudible interjection]
The ChairmanChairmanMm-hmm. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: [Clause] 3(8). [Crosstalk] Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: No, no, no, no, I am talking about [clause] 3(8).
The ChairmanChairman[Clause] 3(8). Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: I am talking about [clause] 3(8). Right here.
The ChairmanChairmanSo that will help. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: See, clause 3(8). [Inaudible interjections]
The ChairmanChairmanIt is clause 3, [new section] 101B(8). Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Yes, yes, yes.
The ChairmanChairmanPage 3, top of. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: We are doing clauses 1 through 6, I do believe. Are we not? We are doing 1 through 6. [Inaudible interjections] Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: I said [clause] 3(8). Three— eight. Turn the page, Grant, three —eight, over …
The ChairmanChairmanThank you, Member. We are, for clarification purposes, we are r eferring to . . . under clause 3, [new section] 101A(8) [sic]. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Yes, thank you. Thank you, Madam Chairman. I like to save time because I think everybody wants to go home, so …
Thank you, Member. We are, for clarification purposes, we are r eferring to . . . under clause 3, [new section] 101A(8) [sic].
Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Yes, thank you. Thank you, Madam Chairman. I like to save time because I think everybody wants to go home, so I am just trying to make things a little quicker.
[Inaudible interjections]
Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: But Minister, based on . . . I will in a second, this is a quick question f or you, Mini ster. Based on what you just said with regard to li mitations up in Dockyard, if indeed they are up in Doc k-yard, with there being . . . I think you said earlier, ma ybe 25 per entrepreneur or per business.
[Inaudible interjection]
Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Okay, let me . . . even if it is not 25 per licence or business or entrepreneur, what sort of limitations are you talking about if you said that . . . you did say earlier that you expected about 250 vehicles that will come out of this legisla tion. So what sort of number are we talking about if indeed they are up in Dockyard, if you have had that discussion already?
The ChairmanChairmanThank you, Member, but I would point out that that has nothing to do with the particular clause that you had identi fied. But thank you. The Chair recognises the Minister.
The Hon. Dr. E. Grant GibbonsYes, thank you, Madam Chairman, and I agree with your sort of ruling on this. I do not think it applies directly. I think what the Minister had indicated to me was that because of the special circumstances around Dockyard there prob ably would be some limitation on the number …
Yes, thank you, Madam Chairman, and I agree with your sort of ruling on this. I do not think it applies directly. I think what the Minister had indicated to me was that because of the special circumstances around Dockyard there prob ably would be some limitation on the number of vehicles up there. But I do not think any number has been sort of agreed at this point, and I think he has indicated that there would be cons ultation. So, I think we will have to work through that.
The ChairmanChairmanThank you. Are there any other Members that would like to speak to the Motor Car Amendment (No. 2) Act? The Chair recognises the Member from constituency 24.
Mr. W. Lawrence ScottWell, would the Minister not consider that going back on his word when he told the taxi drivers that that was going to be taken out? But I am not going to . . . that is not my main point. But my other point is where is the other …
Well, would the Minister not consider that going back on his word when he told the taxi drivers that that was going to be taken out? But I am not going to . . . that is not my main point. But my other point is where is the other promise that was made and reported in the . . . and I am talking to section . . . under clause 3, basically [new sections] 101C and 101D —
Mr. W. Lawrence Scott—where the other promise that was made or reportedly made about the secondhand vehicles being allowed to be brought in as taxis or public service vehicles, where is that amendment and where is that in the amendment? Because that was part of the agreement as I was made to understand …
The ChairmanChairmanMember, I just also want to clarify that we can only speak to the Bill that is before us. And there was general debate which, of course, you raised 332 25 November 2016 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly it as part of the general debate. But as part …
Member, I just also want to clarify that we can only speak to the Bill that is before us. And there was general debate which, of course, you raised 332 25 November 2016 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly it as part of the general debate. But as part of the Committee, we speak to the clauses. So, I will go back to the M inister, but I am just pointing that out. The Chair recognises the Minister.
The Hon. Dr. E. Grant GibbonsThank you, Madam Chairman. This is way out of bounds here, but I think the Minister has indicated that they were going to do a written policy with respect to the second- hand cars that would be allowed to be brought in and they would consult with them on that …
Thank you, Madam Chairman. This is way out of bounds here, but I think the Minister has indicated that they were going to do a written policy with respect to the second- hand cars that would be allowed to be brought in and they would consult with them on that particular provision. But obviously that has nothing to do with the Bill before us.
The ChairmanChairmanThank you. Are there any other Members . . . the Chair recognises the Member from constituency 24.
Mr. W. Lawrence ScottAnd just to save time, what I will do is I will ask the question, and depending on the Minister’s answer depends on how we move forward —
Mr. W. Lawrence ScottWould the Minister be open to accepting an amendment to [new section] 101C by deleting the word “negative” and substituting therefor the word “affirmative”? And that would be the same for [new sections] 101C and 101D.
The ChairmanChairmanThank you, Member. The Chair recognises the Minister.
The ChairmanChairmanThank you. Are there any . . . the Chair recognises the Member from constituency 24.
Mr. W. Lawrence ScottOkay, no problem. I sort of figured that that was going to happen, and I did not want us to go through the whole thing of calling names and all of that, so that was why I just figured I would ask if they were open to it, then I …
The ChairmanChairmanThank you very much. Are there any other Members that would like to speak to the Motor Car Amendment (No. 2) Act? The Chair recognises the Member from constituency 31. You have the floor.
Mr. Shawn G. CrockwellYes, thank you, Madam Chairman. Madam Chairman, I am looking at clause 3, [new section] 101D. And it is not really a question; it is going to be a comment, Madam Chairman. This is in relation to the regulations that will be made in relation to this new vehicle and …
Yes, thank you, Madam Chairman. Madam Chairman, I am looking at clause 3, [new section] 101D. And it is not really a question; it is going to be a comment, Madam Chairman. This is in relation to the regulations that will be made in relation to this new vehicle and new industry. Madam Chairman, you will be aware that regulations are both descriptive as well as prescriptive, and TCD is the regulator in relation to all the vehicles that go on our roads. And you will see the regulations or the guidance in relation to the regulations under [new sect ion] 101D concerning a valid driver’s licence when renting a minicar. That is a regulation that is going to have to be enforced, you know, properly and with vigour. Concerning the licensing and registration of minicars, prescribing identification marks and plates, and generally for carrying out the purposes and prov isions of this part, I just make the comment because although TCD is the regulator and their job, clearly, is to have regulatory mindset, the purpose of this . . . and we have heard this time and time again today. One of the objectives of doing this today is to facilitate com-merce, is to help entrepreneurs who are interested in this particular industry. And I think the Honourable Member from constituency 21 was making some very good points in relation to emissions and the like, this could open up the door for entrepreneurs who have an understanding of electric cars and the like to move the jurisdiction in that direction. But my point is, quite often regulations can get in the way of commerce. And I saw this at times whilst I was the Minister. I can give you an example, Madam Chairman, where we have regulations in relation to tint. And it was the OBA Government that actually loosened those regulations to allow for darker tint and the like. And on one occasion one of the dealerships brought in these cars and the tint was manufacturer tint and it was 0.3 darker than the regulations and the decision of TCD was, Sorry, you’ve got to take all of the tinted windows out, import other windows and put them in. It would have cost the dealership a fortune to do that. And when I was contacted I said to myself . . . and the people who were purchasing . . . these cars were pre- purchased. And so I asked for a tint of the regulated tint and I asked for one that was darker and asked the individuals, who do a fantastic job, the tec hnical officers, which was the darker tint. And they could not tell. So it was something that was not even perceptible to the eye, yet it was going to be this onerous si tuation for the deal er to have to go . . . and then I intervened as the Minister and we made some adjus tments.
Bermuda House of Assembly So, I say that because sometimes when we are too regulatory -minded we can create challenges for individuals who are in commerce. So, you know, as we introduce this we have to make sure that we are complying with safety standards and that individuals are not going to be able to do anything that can cause harm on the roads. But at the same time, if we can strike that balance, and get the flexibility so that it is not going to be obstructive, Madam Chairman, I think that would be helpful.
The ChairmanChairmanThank you. Are there any other Members that would like to speak to the Bill? The Chair recognises the Member from constituency 24.
Mr. W. Lawrence ScottJust one quic k question. I do not know if this has been addressed already, but we are talking about entrepreneurs. Has the entrepreneur that is trying to bring in a rental vehicle which has han-dlebars and not a steering wheel, has that been addressed already? [Inaudible interjection]
Mr. W. Lawrence ScottOkay. Well, then my question is this: If an entrepreneur wanted to bring in a rental vehicle that does not fall under the classification of a minicar and is something more suited to fall under the Auxiliary [Bicycl es] Act or being it having handlebars, TCD classifies a car as …
Okay. Well, then my question is this: If an entrepreneur wanted to bring in a rental vehicle that does not fall under the classification of a minicar and is something more suited to fall under the Auxiliary [Bicycl es] Act or being it having handlebars, TCD classifies a car as a vehicle that has a steering wheel and a bike as something that has handlebars. So if it is . . . let us say I wanted to bring in a three - wheeled bike that has handlebars. Would I be able to do that under the [Auxiliary Bicycles Act] or would I have to do that under the Motor Car Act?
The ChairmanChairmanThank you, Member. The Chair recognises the Minister.
The Hon. Dr. E. Grant GibbonsYes, thanks, Madam Chairman. I think it is a little difficult to answer a question like that on the fly. I think what I would suggest is the Honourable Member needs to suggest to his colleague or associate that they go down to TCD or have a chat with the …
Yes, thanks, Madam Chairman. I think it is a little difficult to answer a question like that on the fly. I think what I would suggest is the Honourable Member needs to suggest to his colleague or associate that they go down to TCD or have a chat with the Ministry or the Permanent Secr etary, or whoever at TCD was going to be dealing in this area, and I am sure they can advise them appropriately. But there will be regulations in terms of what these minicars can and cannot look like. And they ob-viously will also have to follow the restri ctions and pr ovisions in the Bill as well. So, I do not know if that helps, but we cannot make a decision up here, that has got to be left to the technical people.
The ChairmanChairmanThank you. If there are no other Members that would like to speak to the Bil l before us? No other Members. I call on the Minister.
The ChairmanChairmanIt has been moved that clauses 1 through 6 be approved as printed. Any objections to that motion? No objection. Agreed to. [Gavel] [Motion carried: Clauses 1 through 6 passed.]
The ChairmanChairmanIt has been moved that the Preamble be approved as printed. Any objections to that motion? No objection. Agreed to. [Gavel] [Motion carried: Preamble passed.]
The Hon. Dr. E. Grant GibbonsThank you, Madam Chairman. I move that the Bill be reported to the House as printed. Thank you.
The ChairmanChairmanIt has been moved that the Bill be r eported to the House as printed. Any objections to that motion? No objection. Agreed to. [Gavel] [Motion carried: The Motor Car Amendment (No. 2) Act 2016 was considered by a Committee of the whole House and passed without amendment.] House resumed …
It has been moved that the Bill be r eported to the House as printed. Any objections to that motion? No objection. Agreed to.
[Gavel]
[Motion carried: The Motor Car Amendment (No. 2) Act 2016 was considered by a Committee of the whole House and passed without amendment.]
House resumed 334 25 November 2016 Official Hansard Report Berm uda House of Assembly [Hon. K.H. Randolph Horton, Speaker, in the Chair] REPORT OF COMMITTEE MOTOR CAR AME NDMENT (NO. 2) ACT 2016
The SpeakerThe SpeakerHonourable Members, the Bill entitled the Motor Car Amendment (No. 2) Act 2016 has been read a second time and approved. Any objections to that? We will then move on to the next order of the day and that is in the name of the Learned Attorney General, the Minister …
Honourable Members, the Bill entitled the Motor Car Amendment (No. 2) Act 2016 has been read a second time and approved. Any objections to that? We will then move on to the next order of the day and that is in the name of the Learned Attorney General, the Minister of Legal Affairs, T. G. Moniz. You have the floor. BILL SECOND READING PROCEEDS OF CRIME AMENDMENT (NO. 3) ACT 2016 Hon . Trevor G. Moniz: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . I move that the Bill entitled the Proceeds of Crime Amendment (No.3) Act be now read the second time.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAny objections to that? Please carry on, Attorney General. Hon . Trevor G. Moniz: Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to introduce to this Honourable House the Proceeds of Crime Amendment (No. 3) Act 2016 (the Bill) to make corrective amendments to the Proceeds of Crime (A nti-Money Laundering and Anti …
Any objections to that? Please carry on, Attorney General. Hon . Trevor G. Moniz: Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to introduce to this Honourable House the Proceeds of Crime Amendment (No. 3) Act 2016 (the Bill) to make corrective amendments to the Proceeds of Crime (A nti-Money Laundering and Anti -Terrorist Financing) Regulations 2008, and to the Proceeds of Crime Amendment (No. 2) Act 2016 to clarify the nature of the customer due diligence requirements that will be applicable to registered dealers in high value goods. Mr. Speaker, in July of this year the Proceeds of Crime Amendment (No. 2) Act 2016 was enacted for the purpose of bringing dealers in high value goods into the scope of Bermuda’s AML/ATF regime. However, that Act did not clearly specify the nature of the occasional transactions for which registered dea lers in high value goods must conduct customer due diligence and does not make it clear that the regul ations wil l only apply to those dealers that are regi stered with the Financial Intelligence Agency. The pr ovisions of that Act that pertain to dealers in high value goods will come into effect on December 1, 2016 and the administrative arrangements to facilitate the registration and supervision of such persons for AML/ATF purposes are well advanced. The corrective amend-ments to address those issues are, therefore, required to be enacted to come into effect on that same date. Mr. Speaker, the legislation being amended are: the Proceeds of Crime (Anti -Money Laundering and Anti -Terrorist Financing) Regulations 2008, and the Proceeds of Crime Amendment (No. 2) Act 2016. Correspondingly, Mr. Speaker, these amendments will: a.make it clear that the Proceeds of Crime (AML/ATF ) Regulations 2008 will only apply to dealers in high value goods who are regi stered with the Financial Intelligence Agency; and b.provide a relevant definition of “occasionaltransaction” in regulation 2 of the Regulations to make it clear that for the purpose of regi stered dealers in high value goods an occ asional transaction occurs when in any transaction or series of transactions they accept cashequal to or above $7,500 or the equivalent inany currency. Mr. Speaker, this Bill is pertinent to Bermuda’s compliance with international standards and the cred-ibility of Bermuda’s regulatory practices. These amendments will perfect the earlier legislative amendments which address specific technical r equirements of the Financial Action Task Force’s Internationa l Standards on Combating Money -Laundering and Financing of Terrorism and Proliferation. Berm uda remains committed to working to achieve full com-pliance with these standards. Thank you, Mr. Speaker .
The
SpeakerThe SpeakerAll right. Thank you, Honourable Members. The Chair will recognise the Honourable and Learned Shadow Attorney General from constituency 36Hon. Michael J. Scott: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The SpeakerThe Speaker—Michael Scott. Hon. Michael J. Scott: Mr. Speaker, the Learned A ttorney General has shared his brief and more helpfully he has indicated, with which I concur, that this is a correction of placing certain definitions in the . . . to be attached to high value goods and we …
—Michael Scott. Hon. Michael J. Scott: Mr. Speaker, the Learned A ttorney General has shared his brief and more helpfully he has indicated, with which I concur, that this is a correction of placing certain definitions in the . . . to be attached to high value goods and we completely co ncur in its objectives and ends. So, this is not going to be as long as the M otor Car Act.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you, Honourable Member . Any other Honourable Member s care to speak? [Inau dible interjection]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerEvery now and then. The Chair will now recognise the Attorney General. Bermuda House of Assembly Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . I move that the Bill be committed.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Any objections to that? There are none. If the Deputy . . . would you please take the Chair [of Committee]? House in Committee [Mrs. Suzann Roberts -Holshouser, Chairman] COMMITTEE ON BILL PROCEEDS OF CRIME AMENDMENT (NO. 3) ACT 2016
The ChairmanChairmanMembers, we are now in Committee of the whole House for further consideration of the Bill entitled the Proceeds of Crime Amendment (No. 3) Act 2016 . I call on the Minister in charge to proceed. Minister, you have the floor. Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: Thank you, Madam Chairman. I …
The ChairmanChairmanIt has been moved that clauses 1 through 4 be moved. Are there any objections to that motion? No objections. Agreed to. Please proceed. Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: I am obliged. Clause 1 is the citation. Clause 2 amends section 14 of the Proceeds of Crime Amendment (No. 2) Act …
It has been moved that clauses 1 through 4 be moved. Are there any objections to that motion? No objections. Agreed to. Please proceed.
Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: I am obliged. Clause 1 is the citation. Clause 2 amends section 14 of the Proceeds of Crime Amendment (No. 2) Act 2016, in paragraph (d), to clarify that the Proceeds of Crime (Anti -Money Laundering and Anti -Terrorist Financing) Regulations 2008 only apply to dealers i n high value goods who are registered with the Financial Intelligence Agency. Clause 3 amends regulation 2(1) of the Pr oceeds of Crime (Anti -Money Laundering and Anti - Terrorist Financing) Regulations 2008, in the definition for “occasional transaction” by adding paragraph (b) to clarify that, in the case of a dealer in high value goods who is registered with the FIA, an occasional transaction means a transaction or series of linked transactions where a total cash payment (in any currency) that is equivalent to BMD $7,500 is accepted. Clause 4 is the commencement provision and specifies the Act should come into effect on December 1, 2016.
The ChairmanChairmanThank you. Are there any Members that would like to speak to clauses 1 through 4? Thank you. The Chair r ecognises the Minister. Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: I move clauses 1 through 4 be approved.
The ChairmanChairmanIt has been moved that clauses 1 through 4 be approved as printed. Any objections to that motion? No objection. Agreed to. [Gavel] [Motion carried: Clauses 1 through 4 passed.] Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: I move the Preamble.
The ChairmanChairmanIt has been moved that the Preamble be approved as printed. Any objections to that motion? No objection. Agreed to. [Gavel] [Motion carried: Preamble passed.] Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: I move that the Bill be reported to the House as printed.
The ChairmanChairmanIt has been moved that the Bill be r eported to the House as printed. Any objections to that motion? No objection. Agreed to. [Gavel] Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: Thank you, Madam Chairman. [Motion carried: The Proceeds of Crime Amendment (No. 3) Act 2016 was considered by a Committee of …
It has been moved that the Bill be r eported to the House as printed. Any objections to that motion? No objection. Agreed to. [Gavel]
Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: Thank you, Madam Chairman. [Motion carried: The Proceeds of Crime Amendment (No. 3) Act 2016 was considered by a Committee of the whole House and passed without amendments.]
House resumed [Hon. K.H. Randolph Horton, Speaker, in the Chair]
REPORT OF COMMITTEE
PROCEEDS OF CRIME AMENDMENT (NO. 3) ACT 2016
The SpeakerThe SpeakerHonourable Member s, the Proceeds of Crime Amendment (No. 3) Act 2016 has been read a second time and approved. All other orders on the paper are carried over. So I now will recognise first the Minister for Economic Development . . . and Premier, you will fill in for …
Honourable Member s, the Proceeds of Crime Amendment (No. 3) Act 2016 has been read a second time and approved. All other orders on the paper are carried over. So I now will recognise first the Minister for Economic Development . . . and Premier, you will fill in for him? 336 25 November 2016 Official Hansard Report
Bermuda House of Assembly SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDER 21
Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . I move that Standing Order 21 be suspended to enable me, on behalf of the Minister, to move that the Bill entitled the Motor Car Amendment (No. 2) 2016 be now read the third time by its title only.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerAny objections to that? Carry on, please. [Motion carried: Standing Order 21 suspended.] BILL THIRD READING MOTOR CAR AMENDMENT (NO. 2) ACT 2016 Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Motor Car Amendment (No. 2) Act. I move that the Bill do now pass.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. [Motion carried: The Motor Car Amendment (No. 2) Act 2016, was read a third time and passed.]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThe Chair will now recognise the Attorney General. SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDER 21 Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . I move that Standing Order 21 be suspended to enable me to move that the Bill entitled the Pr oceeds of Cri me Amendment (No. 3) Act 2016 …
The SpeakerThe SpeakerOkay. Thank you, Attorney General. Any objections to that? [Motion carried: Standing Order 21 suspended.] BILL THIRD READING PROCEEDS OF CRIME AMENDMENT (NO. 3) ACT 2016 Hon. Trevor G. Moniz: Proceeds of Crime Amendment (No. 3) Act 2016. I move that the Bill do now pass.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Any objections to that? So, the Proceeds of Crime Amendment (No. 3) Act 2016 is approved. [Motion carried: The Proceeds of Crime Amendment (No. 3) Act 2016, was read a third time and passed.]
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThe Chair will now recognise the Honourable Premier. ADJOURNMENT Hon. Michael H. Dunkley: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . I move we now adjourn to November 30, 2016.
The SpeakerThe SpeakerThank you. Members, the House is adjourned to Wednesday, November 30, 2016. [Gavel] [At 5:35 pm, the House adjourned until 10:00 am, Wednesday, 30 November 2016.]