Hansard — November 29, 2024 — Bermuda Parliament

The Speaker The Speaker Good morning, Members. The Clerk will now lead us in prayer. PRAYERS [Prayers read by Mr. Somner, Clerk ]

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Mr. Clerk. Members — [Gavel]

The Speaker The Speaker The House is now in session. [Microphone off ] ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE SPEAKER OR MEMBER PRESIDING APOLOGIES

The Speaker The Speaker We have been notified that the following Members will be absent today. MP Curtis Dickinson, MP Lovitta Foggo and MP Scott Pearman have all sent due notice. APOLOGY FOR UNFORTUNATE INCIDENT

The Speaker The Speaker Whilst I am on the announcements, I am going to call on MP King. MP King . . . Members, there was an incident that took place the last time we were sitting that was most unfortunate. And I am calling on MP King to give apologies for that incident.

Mr. Robert King Good morning, Mr. Speaker . I offer my humblest apologies to this House and to the Honourable Member MP Caines. We dis-cussed the matter and you can be assured such occur-rences will not happen again in the future. Thank you, s ir.

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you very much. I appreciate it. MESSAGES FROM THE SENATE

The Speaker The Speaker There are none. PAPERS AND OTHER COMMUNICATIONS TO THE HOUSE

The Speaker The Speaker We have a few this morning. The first one is in the name of the Minister of Works. Minister Burch. JOIN T WORLD HERITAGE CENTRE/ICOMOS ADVISORY MISSION TO THE HISTORIC TOWN OF ST. GEORGE ’S AND RELATED FORTIFICATIONS, BERMUDA (UNITED KINGDOM OF GREAT BRITAIN AND NORTHERN IRELAND) 25TH-28TH MARCH 2024 …

Lt. Col. Hon. David A. Burch Good morning, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker The Speaker Good morning.

Lt. Col. Hon. David A. Burch Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to attach and submit for the information of the Honourable House of Assembly the Report of the Joint World Heritage Centre/ICOMOS Advisory Mission to the Historic Town of St. George ’s and Related Fortifications, Bermuda (United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland). Thank …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. The next statement this morning is in the name of the Minister of Education . Minister.

Lt. Col. Hon. David A. Burch Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the Minister of Education —

The Speaker The Speaker Good . EDUCATION (PRIMARY SCHOOLS) (IMPLEMENTATION OF REFORMS) ORDER 2024

Lt. Col. Hon. David A. Burch I have the honour to attach and submit for the information of the Honourable House of Assembly the E ducation (Primary Schools) (Implementation of Reforms) Order 2024 as made by the Minister responsible for Education in exercise of the power conferred by section 5 of the Education (Primary Schools) Temporary …

Lt. Col. Hon. David A. Burch I will, Mr. Speaker .

The Speaker The Speaker Continue. EDUCATION (CLOSURE OF SCHOOLS) ORDER 2024

Lt. Col. Hon. David A. Burch On behalf of the Minister of Education, I have the honour to attach and submit for the information of the Honourable House of Assembly the E ducation ( Closure of Schools) Order 2024 as made by the Minister responsible for Education in ex-ercise of the power conferred by section 6 …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. BERMUDA COLLEGE AUDITED FINANCIAL STATEMENT FOR THE YEAR ENDED 31 ST MARCH 2024

Lt. Col. Hon. David A. Burch Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the Minister of Education, I have the honour to attach and submit for the information of the Honourable House of Assembly the Bermuda College Audited Financial Statement for the year ended 31 st March 2024. Thank you, Mr. Speaker . [Pause]

The Speaker The Speaker Sorry about that, Members. The next paper is a communication, rather, from the Junior Minister of Tourism, Culture and Sport. Junior Minister. TOURISM INVESTMENT (SWAN PYROTECHNICS LIMITED) ORDER 2024

Mr. Hubert (Kim) E. Swan Yes, thank you. Good morning, Mr. Speaker . Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to attach and submit for the consideration of the Honourable House of Assembly the Tourism Investment (Swan Pyrotechnics Limited) Order 2024 proposed to be made by the Minister responsible for Tourism under section 3 of the …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. Would you like to introduce your second one? TOURISM INVESTMENT (ROSEDON HOTEL) ORDER 2024

Mr. Hubert (Kim) E. Swan Yes, Mr. Speaker . Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to attach and submit for the consideration of the [Honourable] House of Assembly the Tourism Investment (Rosedon [ Hotel ]) Order 2024 proposed to be made by the Minister responsible for Tourism under section 3 of the Tourism Investment Act …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. Members, that is the close of the papers and communications for the day. PETITIONS

The Speaker The Speaker There are none. STATEMENTS BY MINISTERS AND JUNIOR MINISTERS

The Speaker The Speaker We have some seven Statements this morning. The first is by the Premier and the Minister of Finance . Premier. Hon. E. David Burt: Good morning, Mr. Speaker .

The Speaker The Speaker Good morning. JOINT MINISTERIAL COUNCIL 2024 AND FINANCE ENGAGEMENT Hon. E. David Burt: Mr. Speaker, Honourable Members and the public will be aware of the annual trek to the U nited Kingdom required of Premiers, Chief Ministers, and other elected leaders to meet with Ministers of His Majesty’s Government for …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Premier. Members, the next Statement this morning is in the name of the Deputy Premier. Deputy [Premier]. Hon. Walter H. Roban: Good morning, Mr. Speaker ,—

The Speaker The Speaker Good morning. Hon. Walter H. Roban: —Good morning to Members and the listening public. CLIMATE CHANGE STUD Y ENTITLED “BERMUDA AND CLIMATE CHANGE: IMPACTS FROM SEA LEVEL RISE AND CHANGING STORM ACTIVITY” RELEASE OF Hon. Walter H. Roban: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to share with this Honourable House and …

Lt. Col. Hon. David A. Burch Good morning again,

Mr. Speaker . The Speaker Good morning. UNESCO ADVISORY MISSION TO THE HISTORIC TOWN OF ST. GEORGE’S AND RELATED FORTIFICATIONS REPORT

Lt. Col. Hon. David A. Burch Mr. Speaker, I rise this morning to announce receipt and tabling in this House of the Report of the United Nations Educational, Scien-tific and Cultural Organization ( more commonly known as UNESCO) Advisory Mission to Bermuda’s own World Heritage Site —the Historic Town of St. George’s and Related Fortifications . …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Minister. Members, the next Statement this morning is in the name of the Junior Minister . . . I am sorry, the Minister of National Security, Minister Weeks. Hon. Michael A. Weeks: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . Good morning to you and good morning to the listening audience.

The Speaker The Speaker Good morning. BERMUDA DRUG INFORMATION NETWORK (BerDIN) 15 th ANNUAL MEETING Hon. Michael A. Weeks: Mr. Speaker, the 2024 Annual Meeting of the Bermuda Drug Information Network (otherwise known as BerDIN) was hosted by the Department of National Drug Control on November 1st at 138 29 November 2024 Official Hansard …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Minister. Members, the next Statement this morning is in the name of the Minister of Education. Minister. Hon. Diallo V. S. Rabain: Good morning, Mr. Speaker . Good morning, listening audience. Good morning, col-leagues. BERMUDA COLLEGE AUDITED FINANCIAL STATEMENTS 2023/24 Hon. Diallo V. S. Rabain: Mr. Speaker, a …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Minister. Members, the next Statement this morning is in the name of the Minister of Health. Minister. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker , and good morning. MEASLES EXPOSURE UPDATE Hon. Kim N. Wilson: I wish to address the public regarding the confirmation of two cases …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Minister. Members, the final Statement this morning is in the name of the Junior Minister of Finance.

Mr. Jache Adams Good morning, Mr. Speaker , colleagues and indeed listening audience. SUPPORTING BERMUDIANS —FIRST HOMES AND LOWER MORTGAGES

Mr. Jache Adams Mr. Speaker, I rise this morning to update this Honourable House on the Government’s Mortgage Guarantee Programme, the latest develop-ments in its expansion, and our broader efforts to make homeownership more affordable for Bermudians. Mr. Speaker, t he Mortgage Guarantee Programme is a key initiative of this Government, designed to …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Junior Minister. Members, that brings us to a close of the Statements by Ministers and Junior Ministers for this morn-ing. We will now move on. REPORTS OF COMMITTEES

The Speaker The Speaker There are none. QUESTION PERIOD

The Speaker The Speaker Before we start questions this morning, I would just like to acknowledge that we actually have written questions this morning which all seek oral responses and then we will do the questions that have arisen from the Statements today. The first are the written questions from the Opposition Leader to …

The Speaker The Speaker Good morning. QUESTION 1: EMIGRATION SURVEY 2024 Bermuda House of Assembly Hon. Jarion Richardson: Good morning colleagues and listening audience. My questions are to the Honourable Jason Hayward, Minister of Economy and Labour. Will the Honourable Minister please provide this Honourable House with a detailed description of the Bermuda Government …

The Speaker The Speaker Minister. Hon. Jason Hayward: Mr. Speaker, the project was commissioned to a local research firm. The local research firm will conduct a series of interviews. They will conduct interviews with individuals who have emigrated [from] Bermuda. They will conduct interviews with the local population as it pertains to their desire …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. Is there a supplementary? SUPPLEMENTARY Hon. Jarion Richardson: Yes, thank you. The Opposition has received a copy of what looks like an online survey. Would the Minister explain how the interview process works, especially since he mentioned an interview process and an online survey? And he mentioned . …

The Speaker The Speaker Okay. Hon. Jason Hayward: So, it is a multiple prong approach. The survey is only one aspect of the actual data gathering that the company will do. So, there is a broadbased survey to get a general appetite of the public. Persons have been floating around that one survey said …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. Is there a second . . . supplementary? Yes. SUPPLEMENTARY

Ms. Susan E. Jackson Thank you. I would like to ask the Minister about remote working and whether the Department of Immigration has noticed a trend of Bermuda companies that are allowing for more remote working and whether that remote working is a direct incentive for Bermudians to then leave the Island because they …

The Speaker The Speaker You saw me sort of lean to you . . . I was trying to see if it fitted in. I noticed it is more on the survey and, would that have fallen in the survey? I am not sure. So, it would not have fallen in the survey in …

The Speaker The Speaker Even though it is a good question, it does not fall in what is on the Statement because the Statement referred to more of the contents which the survey was targeting. Okay? A supplementary or a new question? Hon. Jarion Richardson: Yes, please, supplementary. SUPPLEMENTARY Hon. Jarion Richardson: Would the …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. Those are your two supplements. Would you like to move on to question 2? Hon. Jarion Richardson: I thought there were three. Sorry, thank you, Mr. Speaker . QUESTION 2: EMIGRATION SURVEY 2024 Hon. Jarion Richardson: Will the Honourable Minister please provide to this Honourable House the results …

The Speaker The Speaker Supplementary? SUPPLEMENTARIES Hon. Jarion Richardson: Thank you. When the Ministry of Economy and Labour gets the results, will the Ministry table them in this Honourable House?

The Speaker The Speaker Minister. Hon. Jason Hayward: It is my aim to share with this Honourable House the results of the survey. I cannot say that I can table the results that are provided because I do not know what format they will actually be in [when] received by the Minist ry. But …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. Hon. Jason Hayward: A second—

The Speaker The Speaker Yes. Hon. Jason Hayward: Second supplementary. Hon. Jarion Richardson: Will the raw data be available either via PATI or another mechanism for people who use demographics in Bermuda ?

The Speaker The Speaker Minister. Hon. Jason Hayward: That is a difficult question because I am not clear on the level of detail that the Ministry of Economy and Labour will receive from the firm. And so based off of the report, that will be the level of detail that the Government will actually …

The Speaker The Speaker Okay. Hon. Jarion Richardson: Thank you. Mr. Speaker, third question, Mr. Speaker ?

The Speaker The Speaker Yes. Hon. Jarion Richardson: Thank you. QUESTION 3: EMIGRATION SURVEY 2024 Hon. Jarion Richardson: Will the Honourable Minister please specify for this Honourable House the cybersecurity mechanisms and personal information arrangements used to protect the results of this S urvey? Hon. Jason Hayward: Mr. Speaker, the Ministry of Economy and …

The Speaker The Speaker Okay. SUPPLEMENTARY Hon. Jarion Richardson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . Would the Honourable M inister clarify the statement that the Minister of Economy and Labour is not in pos-session of any sensitive information? Because this information was sent out to specific people at a specific time based on certain criteria. …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. Minister and Opposition Leader, thank you for your participation. The next written question this morning is from the Opposition Whip to the Minister of Works. Opposition Whip—

Mr. L. Craig Cannonier Good morning, colleagues and thank you, Mr. Speaker. QUESTION 1: BERMUDIANA BEACH RESORT

Mr. L. Craig Cannonier Will the Honourable Minister pleas e confirm for this Honourable House if all rental units at the former Bermudiana Beach Resort will have their own asses sment numbers?

Lt. Col. Hon. David A. Burch Mr. Speaker—

The Speaker The Speaker Supplementary? [No audible response]

The Speaker The Speaker No supplementary?

The Speaker The Speaker Second question— QUESTION 2: BERMUDIANA BEACH RESORT

Mr. L. Craig Cannonier Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Second ques tion: Will the Honourable Minister please confirm for this Honourable House if all rental units at the former Bermudiana Beach Resort are to expect a parking ba y and will gu est pa rking be available a s well?

The Speaker The Speaker Minister. [Crosstalk]

Lt. Col. Hon. David A. Burch Mr. Speaker, no I cannot confirm that. The process for allocating park ing is something that is being disc ussed with the Department of Planning. There was not an original plan to provide parking for all 94 units. And so, we are working through that. The Speaker: Supplementary?

Mr. L. Craig Cannonier Yes, supplementary. SUPPLEMENTARY

Mr. L. Craig Cannonier Can the Honourable M inister take it upon himself, once he gets an idea, to update the House on that?

Lt. Col. Hon. David A. Burch Absolutely, Mr. Speaker .

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Minister. [Crosstalk ]

The Speaker The Speaker Second supplementary or a third question?

Mr. L. Craig Cannonier Third question.

The Speaker The Speaker Go ahead. [Crosstalk and laughter ]

The Speaker The Speaker Members. Members. [Crosstalk and laughter] QUESTION 3: BERMUDIANA BEACH RESORT

Mr. L. Craig Cannonier Will the Honourable Minister please confirm for this Honourable House if he will be willing to table/release the E rnst & Young (EY) report he has received containing recommendations for the former Bermudiana Beach Resort?

The Speaker The Speaker Minister.

Lt. Col. Hon. David A. Burch Mr. Speaker, I have already indicated publicly that I will not be releasing the report, the documents and analysis for various options. We have already released the full contents of the report and outcome to the public. As it contains detailed com-mercial analysis of the Hilton brand and EY’s methodologies, …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. Supplementary? SUPPLEMENTARY

Mr. L. Craig Cannonier Yes, supplementary. I just want to make sure . . . the Honourable Minister said that he gave to the public full details, but then he is say-ing that he is not going to release the report. 146 29 November 2024 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly So, is …

The Speaker The Speaker Minister.

Lt. Col. Hon. David A. Burch Mr. Speaker, no I am not saying that. I am saying that the recommendations from the report have been provided in the public domain. The work that EY did in order to create that report and the people that they spoke with and the information that they gathered is not …

The Speaker The Speaker Okay. That is it? Thank you. Members, that is the conclusion of the written questions for this morning. We will now move on to the Statements. Of the Statements that were given this morning, Members have questions for two of the State-ments. The first is for the Minister of National …

Mr. L. Craig Cannonier Thank you again, Mr. Speaker , and good morning to the public as well. QUESTION 1: BERMUDA DRUG INFORMATION NETWORK (BerDIN) 15 th ANNUAL MEETING

Mr. L. Craig Cannonier In the Statement that the Honourable Minister gave, he indicated that in 2022 there were 59 deaths, I guess, resulting from substances involved. And then there was an increase in 2023 of 63. In this meeting, which I want to thank the Minister for bringing this Statement to the House, …

The Speaker The Speaker Minister. Hon. Michael A. Weeks: In answer to that question, Mr. Speaker, no.

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. Supplementary? SUPPLEMENTARIES

Mr. L. Craig Cannonier Yes, supplementary. Do we have any data for prior to 2022 on the same matter? Hon. Michael A. Weeks: I would say yes, Mr. Speaker, because this meeting is a 15- year annual meeting. I did not have that data in this particular Ministerial Statement. The Speaker: Second supplementary or …

Mr. L. Craig Cannonier Second supplementary. Considering that he said yes that that data is available, is he aware of the results of the same subject matter that we are talking about prior to 2022, of the deaths involving substance abuse?

The Speaker The Speaker Minister. Hon. Michael A. Weeks: Mr. Speaker, that information is not in this current Ministerial Statement, but if the Honourable Member needs that information, I have no problem providing it to him.

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. Second question. QUESTION 2: BERMUDA DRUG INFORMATION NETWORK (BerDIN) 15 th ANNUAL MEETING

Mr. L. Craig Cannonier Second question. On page 3, Ms. Dean can be quoted as saying despite current circumstances . . . referring to data gap . . . can the Minister explain to us exactly what she is referring to? She encourages to get more data in, but I am not sure ex-actly …

The Speaker The Speaker Minister. Hon. Michael A. Weeks: Mr. Speaker, when Ms. Dean, the director of the DNDC talks about data gap, it is because we are collaborating with so many different organisations, the data does not always get in on time. So that data gap is simply . . . not that …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. That was your first question on your. . . supplement?

Mr. L. Craig Cannonier Supplemental.

The Speaker The Speaker Supplemental. Your first supplement on the second question.

Mr. L. Craig Cannonier Yes. SUPPLEMENTARY

Mr. L. Craig Cannonier So, during the discussions then, did the Minister come away believing that we might have found a solution, or were there several so-lutions to identify how they are going to fill that gap? Bermuda House of Assembly The Speaker: Minister. Hon. Michael A. Weeks: Yes. [Laughter]

The Speaker The Speaker Second supplementary?

Mr. L. Craig Cannonier Can the Honourable Minister expound on that yes ? [Laughter]

Mr. L. Craig Cannonier Considering the answer we just received, yes , would the Honourable Minister be in a position to expound on that yes ? [Inaudible interjections] Hon. Michael A. Weeks: Mr. Speaker, in the very near future.

The Speaker The Speaker A future Statement. Okay. Is there a third question? Third question? Okay. No? All right. We will go on. Okay. [Crosstalk ]

The Speaker The Speaker The next Statement that has questions this morning is from the Statement by the Minister of Health. Minister, the Opposition Whip would like to put questions to you regarding that. QUESTION 1: MEASLES EXPOSURE UPDATE

Mr. L. Craig Cannonier Thank you again, Mr. Speaker . Considering the severity and the impact potentially on Bermuda, I am just curious as to . . . when the Minister said that at this present time, our children are about 40 per cent vaccinated for measles and that the current statistics fell below …

The Speaker The Speaker Minister. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . And I thank the Honourable Member for his question. That 95 per cent recommendation from the WHO is with respect to all persons, adults and children, so that we can receive herd immunity. With respect to the low uptake that …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. L. Craig Cannonier No, second question.

The Speaker The Speaker Second question. QUESTION 2: MEASLES EXPOSURE UPDATE

Mr. L. Craig Cannonier [Microphone off]

The Speaker The Speaker Minister. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . Mr. Speaker, as we indicated we have communicated through the Ministry of Education with the private and public schools to ensure that they are aware of the challenge that we face. They will also, in turn, communicate that information to …

The Speaker The Speaker Supplementary?

Mr. L. Craig Cannonier Yes, a supplemental. SUPPLEMENTARY

Mr. L. Craig Cannonier Considering the severity and the challenge that this could pose, I recognise that this is not an easy thing . . . or it is a challenge for us. Would the Honourable Minister . . . I believe we need to do something jointly, or it would be nice to …

The Speaker The Speaker Minister. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Mr. Speaker, I applaud the Honourable Member ’s . . .

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Gesture.

The Speaker The Speaker Gesture. Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Thank you. Gesture. I am doing it, but I am not saying it. [Laughter] Hon. Kim N. Wilson: Gesture to assist with respect to this and we will certainly be able to do that. And perhaps we can do something jointly just to ensure that …

The Speaker The Speaker Any additional questions? None. Members, that brings us to a close of the Question Period for this morning. We will now move on. CONGRATULATORY AND/OR OBITUARY SPEECHES

The Speaker The Speaker Would anyone wish to make a contribution? None? MP Swan. [Laughter]

The Speaker The Speaker MP Swan, you have your three minutes.

Mr. Hubert (Kim) E. Swan Yes, Mr. Speaker . Mr. Speaker, I have got a number of condolences that I would like to offer, starting off with the passing of Mr. Quinton Butterfield—

Mr. Hubert (Kim) E. Swan —in his 99 th year, who I was looking forward to celebrating his 100th early in the new year.

Mr. Hubert (Kim) E. Swan At the celebration of the centenary of Ms. [Viola] Fubler —he was there! In good spirits, talking about football and his PHC years when he was outstanding. And his son shared a photo when he was a youngster and his father was one of the legends of one of the …

Mr. Hubert (Kim) E. Swan —who is at a funeral right now with family members. So they have had a series of tragic passings in that family of recent, so I ask that condolences be sent to the family. To the family of Mr. Damian Simmons whose mother is a constituent, Ms. Dawn Hanley, and …

The Speaker The Speaker You are associating yourself. Those were done last week.

Mr. Hubert (Kim) E. Swan I will associate myself with those condolences. And also to Mr. Kenneth “Kenny B.” Brangman, a caddy from Mid Ocean Club who I have known all my life from the West End. Kenny B. comes from Somerset and they had other nicknames for him, but growing up in Somerset, I …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, MP. Does any other Member wish to make a contribution? Deputy Premier. Hon. Walter H. Roban: Yes, Mr. Speaker, thank you very much for recognising me. I would like to congratulate the Bermuda Underwater Exploration Institute (BUEI) organisation for a . . . what I consider to be …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. MP Simmons -Wade —

Mrs. Ianthia Simmons -Wade Good morning, everyone, to the listening audience. Initially I would like to give my condolences to Curtis Dill. Curtis was a resident of Summer Haven, 65 years old. [Inaudible interjection]

Mrs. Ianthia Simmons -Wade Yes, associating all Members. Forty -one years ago he got in a bike accident. He acknowledged he was drinking. He acknowledged he was using drugs. That still actually applies today with a number of people who are out there drinking, smoking, et cetera. But he used this as an opportunity …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. MP Simmons, Jamahl Simmons.

Mr. Jamahl S. Simmons Thank you, Mr. Speaker . Today I rise with a heavy heart. I am deeply saddened by the sudden passing of young Ms. Sierra (Elsie) Brangman. A young woman with extraordinary promise whose light was extinguished far too soon. Mr. Speaker, I first met Sierra when I was Minister of …

The Speaker The Speaker I believe she was a former Youth Parliament member as well. Yes. MP Caesar . . . Minister Caesar. Hon. Crystal Caesar: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . Mr. Speaker, this morning I bring condolences to a couple of my constituents. Namely, Enith Maud Wilson. I bring condolences to her family. …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Associate me. Hon. Crystal Caesar: Okay, thank you. I will associate those who have mentioned. I also . . . a good friend of mine, or two good friends of mine who I grew up with, Andrea Ratteray and Mandy Ingham, I bring my condolences with regard to the passing …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. Hon. Crystal Caesar: Thank you.

The Speaker The Speaker Deputy Speaker. Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . Mr. Speaker, I would like to extend condolences to the family of Louis Anderson. I know MP Kim Wilson . . . not Wilson, Swan. Louis was a personal friend of mine and it is a big loss …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Deputy [Speaker]. Opposition Whip.

Mr. L. Craig Cannonier Yes, thank you. Thank you, Mr. Speaker . Bermuda House of Assembly I just wanted to give congratulations to Winifred Lynch who celebrated her 100th birthday on November 13. And I associate the Premier because I know that he had gone to the celebration for her 100th birthday. It seems …

Mr. L. Craig Cannonier Or the good eating that they had from young, but —

The Speaker The Speaker That is what it is. [Inaudible interjections]

Mr. L. Craig Cannonier Yes, yes, yes. Now, we do not want to turn this into a battle. [Desk thumping and laughter ]

Mr. L. Craig Cannonier I knew I should not have brought the Premier into this. [Laughter]

Mr. L. Craig Cannonier But, yes —

The Speaker The Speaker You . . . and he took the bait.

Mr. L. Craig Cannonier Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. But I would like to just congratulate the family and herself. One hundred years is quite a feat. In fact, in passing I saw the former Sir John Swan . . . not the former, but Sir John Swan — [Laughter]

Mr. L. Craig Cannonier Politics! [Inaudible interjections]

Mr. L. Craig Cannonier No, I said Sir. I said Sir. He was even saying that his goal is to be 100, in his 90 th year. So again to the Winifred Lynch family, just congratulations to her on achieving that 100th birthday.

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. MP De Silva. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . I see you have restarted the clock. I thought Mr. Can-nonier might take advantage of that and not stop. But, Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate a young 10- year-old young lady by …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. Does any . . . MP Lister.

Mr. Dennis Lister III Good morning, Mr. Speaker . Good morning to the listening audience and to my fellow colleagues. I would just like to start off by sending condolences to a few constituents of mine, Mr. Speaker . To Mr. Earl Iris of 7 South Breeze Road in Warwick. [Inaudible interjections]

Mr. Dennis Lister III And I will associate MP Richardson. Also to the family of Ms. Linda Ann Lottimore of 17 Bayfield Road. I would like to send condolences. And, Mr. Speaker, I also would like to send condolences to the family (which is also my family) of Ms. Marlene Swan that passed recently …

Mr. Dennis Lister III I associate MP Swan and I associate the St. George’s MPs also. While she did live in St. George’s , she is from Warwick, Mr. Speaker, and she is a cousin of my grandmother. So, you know, even if you end up in St. George’s , you start in the …

Mr. Dennis Lister III I would like to send condolences to the rest of the family, of the Swan and Wingood family, Mr. Speaker .

Mr. Dennis Lister III And then on a lighter note, I would like to follow in the steps of my other colleagues in congratulating some centenarians. Yesterday, Mr. Speaker, I would like to send birthday congratulations to Ms . Eleanor Dillas, a constituent of mine, celebrated her 103 rd birthday yesterday. But more than …

Mr. Dennis Lister III And she was more affectionately known as “Mama D.” And anyone that you mention that name, first thing that comes to mind—

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Scooter pie.

Mr. Dennis Lister III The scooter pies. But also the pizza pies, Mr. Speaker . [Laughter]

Mr. Dennis Lister III I mean, when I think about them, there were . . . macaroni pizza pies that were about two or three inches thick —

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member You don’t get those no more.

Mr. Dennis Lister III You don’t get those no more, Mr. Speaker . But that was a specialty that she created and will always long live in the memory of any person that attended Bermuda Institute during her time there. So I would like to send congratulations to her on her 103 rd birthday, …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. MP Tyrrell, Government Whip.

Mr. Neville S. Tyrrell Thank you, Mr. Speaker , and good morning colleagues. Mr. Speaker, first of all, I would like to be associated with the condolences sent to the family of Quinton Butterfield, especially as Quinton and my father -inlaw Bussy Butterfield were a strike force in their football team. So they have …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member You don’t know them.

Mr. Neville S. Tyrrell Yes, I do. PHC and Key West Rangers, don’t worry. [Inaudible interjections]

Mr. Neville S. Tyrrell I would also mention as well that Quinton was my wife’s god parent. So I have to associate myself with that.

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member In this 99 th year.

Mr. Neville S. Tyrrell In his 99th year. I would also like to be associated with the condolences to the Bean family for the passing of Esther Bean, whose husband Dr. Gerard Bean and I ran foot-ball for a very long time together. And so I certainly associate with those condolences. Again, on a …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. Does any other Member wish to make a contribution at this time? Minister Burch.

Lt. Col. Hon. David A. Burch Thank you, Mr. Speaker . I would first like to send congratulations to Cobbs Hill Methodist Church on the occasion of their 197th anniversary a few weeks ago, Mr. Speaker . I attended the service. It is always a moving occasion to go to a church that was built by …

Lt. Col. Hon. David A. Burch Mr. Speaker, I would like be associated with the condolences [for] Mr. Quinton Butterfield. And I would also like to be associated with the condolences to my family of Kenneth Eric Alonzo Brangman who is a first cousin of mine, Mr. Speaker . And it is amazing, you live on …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Minister. MP Scott, Lawrence Scott.

Mr. W. Lawrence Scott Yes, Mr. Speaker , good morning. I just want to be associated with the congratulations for Mama D. I remember my first time going to the tuck shop at BI [Bermuda Institute]. There was a trio of brothers that made me pay a toll, a food toll — [Laughter]

Mr. W. Lawrence Scott And I had to get a pizza pie for them—

The Speaker The Speaker Any of those brothers in here today? [Laughter]

Mr. W. Lawrence Scott Mr. Speaker, I will go on. I will move forward. [Laughter]

Mr. W. Lawrence Scott I will go on to . . . I would also like to be associated with the Cobbs Hill [Methodist Church] congratulations because that is my home church. That is where— [Inaudible interjections]

Mr. W. Lawrence Scott —I gave my first sermon “This is Your Captain Speaking.” Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: Do you tithe?

Mr. W. Lawrence Scott I do tithe, and I tithe on gross, not net. Right? [Laughter]

Mr. W. Lawrence Scott “This is Your Captain Speaking,” it was a sermon on faith. So that has been my home church from as long as I can remember. So, thank you for that, Mr. Speaker .

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, MP. Would any other Member . . . MP Richardson, you have your three minutes.

Mr. Anthony Richardson Mr. Speaker, good morning to you and everyone else. Just two quick ones. I want to be associated with the condolences for Mr. Kenny Brangman. He actually stayed right down in Devil’s Hole there. For me, it was every morning (just about), every weekday morning, as I walked my dog, …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Happy birthday.

The Speaker The Speaker Does any other Member wish to make a contribution at this time? Premier. Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker . Mr. Speaker, I rise today to be associated with the condolences expressed by the Honourable Member for constituency 33 and certainly to ask that all Honourable …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Premier. Does any other Member wish to make a contribution at this time? There are none other. Before we move on, I would just like to add a couple of remarks to some of the comments this morning. To Mr. Quinton Butterfield, I have known the family for …

The Speaker The Speaker There are none. PERSONAL EXPLANATIONS

The Speaker The Speaker There are none. NOTICE OF MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE ON MATTERS OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

The Speaker The Speaker There are none. INTRODUCTION OF BILLS GOVERNMENT BILLS

The Speaker The Speaker There are none. OPPOSITION BILLS

The Speaker The Speaker There are none. PRIVATE MEMBERS’ BILLS

The Speaker The Speaker There are none. NOTICE OF MOTIONS

The Speaker The Speaker There are none. ORDERS OF THE DAY

The Speaker The Speaker We are going to do the first item on the Orders of the Day which is the second reading of the Payroll Tax Amendment (No. 2) Act 2024 . It is in the Bermuda House of Assembly name of the Minister of Finance, and I think it is going to …

The Speaker The Speaker Any objections? There are none. Continue. BILL SECOND READING PAYROLL TAX AMENDMENT (NO. 2) ACT 2024 Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Mr. Speaker, the Bill presented today before this Honourable House is the Payroll Tax Amendment (No. 2) Act 2024. The purpose of the Bill is to further harmonise and modernise …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Minister Furbert. Does any other Member wish to make a contribution today?

Ms. Susan E. Jackson Thank you—

The Speaker The Speaker MP Jackson, you have the floor.

Ms. Susan E. Jackson Thank you, Mr. Speaker . I would like to say a few words. In general, a decrease in any kind of tax is certainly something that is sup-ported on this side. But I would like to just share a few comments. I am going to begin . . . at …

Ms. Susan E. Jackson They may now be paying less because they are not earning enough. But we will leave that to the side, Mr. Speaker . But the worst part that really bothers me, and I have brought this up in the House before, Mr. Speaker, 1 https://www.gov.bm/articles/minister -transport -responds -btoa- ahead- planned …

Ms. Susan E. Jackson Why even have it? It does not apply to payroll. And it is something that the UBP or somebody else came up with 50 years ago and they are still hanging on to it. It makes no sense except for politics because they get to say, Oh, we are reducing …

Ms. Susan E. Jackson We had the budget. We had the Budget Debate. We had all the legislation that was passed around the Budget Debate. We are now into March. Crickets, Mr. Speaker . And then September rolls around, which is the time when the taxi drivers start to renew their licence (which might …

Ms. Susan E. Jackson Nine, ten months, the taxi industry is going to have to wait to realise this reduction. And to be honest with you, Mr. Speaker, I am not sure that the industry is going to be able to afford the $600 when we get to October 2025. [Inaudible interjections]

Ms. Susan E. Jackson Now, Mr. Speaker . . . Mr. Speaker, this industry, aside from the fact that this is a significant, historical and legacy industry for our country and, in particular, the service that they provide to the tourism industry which has grown by the way, Mr. Speaker, to some 800,000 projected …

Ms. Susan E. Jackson This is an industry for our Black disenfranchised Bermudian males.

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member What?

Ms. Susan E. Jackson The Government has said that over and over again, because I have been sitting in this chair since the beginning. [Inaudible interjections]

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member What did you d o?

Ms. Susan E. Jackson This is an entrepreneurial opportunity for many, many people in Bermuda. And no one is doing anything to nurture it. They have been ne-glected. And, Mr. Speaker, this is the one place where a human being, a Bermudian, can get behind the wheel of a car and have some dignity …

Ms. Susan E. Jackson —and were more than happy to say that they had sent their children to private schools. That they had houses, apartments. Living well. This was a major . . . you could make your own money. [Inaudible interjections]

Ms. Susan E. Jackson And none of that exists like it did from yesterday today. None of it. There are taxi drivers out there, required by law to drive their taxi for 16 hours. Sixteen hours a day! They cannot take a break. They are supposed to take a 24- hour break once a …

Ms. Susan E. Jackson And there is so much neglect from this Government as far as organising, setting policy, being actively involved — Hon. E. David Burt: Point of order, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker The Speaker Point of order. POINT OF ORDER [Misleading] Hon. E. David Burt: I hate to interrupt the wonderful, Honourable Member . She was on, you know, a roll. However, I would just like to point out to the Honourable Member that she is misleading the House, and she is factually incorrect. …

The Speaker The Speaker Point taken.

Ms. Susan E. Jackson If it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, it is a duck.

Some Hon. Members Some Hon. Members Ooh! [Inaudible interjections] 158 29 November 2024 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly The Speaker: No, no, no. The point was . . . let me just clear it up so we don’t go back and forth. The point was that the vehicle is regulated for 16 hours, not …

Ms. Susan E. Jackson Accepted. Accepted. [Inaudible interjections and laughter ]

The Speaker The Speaker Keep speaking to me now.

Ms. Susan E. Jackson Mr. Speaker, the vehicle must be on the road for 16 hours, but we are not necessarily enforcing or supervising or checking in on who is driving the vehicle for the 16 hours. [Inaudible interjections]

Ms. Susan E. Jackson I will leave it at that. But it brings me to another thought, Mr. Speaker —

Ms. Susan E. Jackson If a vehicle— [Inaudible interjections]

Ms. Susan E. Jackson If a vehicle is on the road, mandatory for 16 hours a day, I am going to use that as my starting point. Where is the data? Where is the Transport Ministry collecting the data so that they know when a taxi is on the road, who is driving it, …

Ms. Susan E. Jackson So, we have got . . . I do not even know what dispatch we have because I am not quite sure how to define Hitch . [Inaudible interjections]

Ms. Susan E. Jackson I don’t know. And then we have got Bermuda Island and they submit their reports with their data after they are asked, but not proactively because nobody is doing anything with that data. So, Mr. Speaker, my questions to the Minister are this. [Inaudible interjections]

Ms. Susan E. Jackson I wrote some of them down. [Inaudible interjections]

Ms. Susan E. Jackson Mr. Speaker, this is all about the data. We all are asking, I am asking, why are we still having this payroll tax, just like a lump sum of the $1,000 reduced to $600? And to me the introduction of the minibus tax is just offsetting the taxi. So there …

Ms. Susan E. Jackson —but the minibuses now have to pay a tax in order to complement or supplement or tally up, so the Government still gets their money but now it is shared between the taxi operators and the minibus operators. So, that to me sounds a little, I mean . . . …

Ms. Susan E. Jackson Yes, the screen freeze . . . not— [Laughter]

Ms. Susan E. Jackson We would also like to know whether the Government is collecting the dispatch data, the six -month data, and where that data is being kept and how it is being formulated to help figure out the payroll tax. Does the Government base tax on taxi by miles, hours driven, amounts …

Ms. Susan E. Jackson You know what? I am going to . . . can I leave it there and come back after lunch?

The Speaker The Speaker Sure.

Ms. Susan E. Jackson Yes, thank you. [Inaudible interjections]

The Speaker The Speaker Mr. Premier. Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . Mr. Speaker, I move that the Honourable House do now adjourn for lunch until 2:00 pm.

The Speaker The Speaker Members, are there any objections to that? There are none. The House now stands adjourned until 2:00 pm. [Gavel] Proceedings suspended at 12:30 pm Proceedings resum ed at 2:01 pm [Hon. Dennis P. Lister, Jr., Speaker, in the Chair]

The Speaker The Speaker Good afternoon, Members. I trust everyone had a nice break. Now we are ready to resume for the afternoon sitting, and I believe that MP Jackson was still on her feet. So, we will start there. The House is now in session. [Gavel]

The Speaker The Speaker MP Jackson, you can resume. BILL SECOND READING PAYROLL TAX AMENDMENT (NO. 2) ACT 2024 [Continuation of debate thereon]

Ms. Susan E. Jackson Thank you, Mr. Speaker . I just have a few questions before we go into Committee. I would like to ask the Minister, How is the Government , the Ministry of Transport, actually calculating a payroll tax on a vehicle? Is it that you are looking at the miles that …

Ms. Susan E. Jackson —at the beaches to assist with the orderly movement of cruise passengers, in particular, back to the ports. And if we are not able to provide the services, we just wonder why the vehicle is being taxed when there is actually no Government support to help keep their vehicles in …

Ms. Susan E. Jackson Yes. You know I have heard people say, you know, We are making all this money over Cup Match holiday . And we make all this money here and we make all this money there. But that is for a couple of weeks, maybe a month or two. Maybe even …

The Speaker The Speaker Point of order. POINT OF ORDER Hon. E. David Burt: Can I just call an attention to order in regard to the germaneness of this conversation? I mean I know we are going to principles, but now we have struggled into minimum wage earning for taxi drivers applicable under a …

Ms. Susan E. Jackson Thank you. And, of course—

The Speaker The Speaker Keep it in frame of today’s matter. That is all. [Laughter]

Ms. Susan E. Jackson Mr. Speaker, the difficulty —

The Speaker The Speaker I am sure you are skilled enough to be able to do that.

Ms. Susan E. Jackson The difficulty with this, Mr. Speaker, is that this particular Bill is titled Payroll Tax . Hon. E. David Burt: Exactly.

Ms. Susan E. Jackson So, if nobody is making any money anyway, in the public service vehicle industry —

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Oh no! [Inaudible interjections]

Ms. Susan E. Jackson And if you are taxing a vehicle and calling it vehicle tax — Hon. E. David Burt: Point of order, Mr. Speaker .

Ms. Susan E. Jackson —it applies. Hon. E. David Burt: Point of order, Mr. Speaker .

The Speaker The Speaker Point of order. POINT OF ORDER [Misleading] Hon. E. David Burt: The Honourable Member is clearly misleading the House. She just got up and said that nobody is making any money in the public service vehicle industry. Meanwhile, at the same point in time, she commented on record number of …

The Speaker The Speaker Member, just —

Ms. Susan E. Jackson Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker .

The Speaker The Speaker —be mindful of your . . . don’t contradict yourself.

Ms. Susan E. Jackson I am not going to get into it because that is seasonal, and these folks live here 365 days of the year. So that is another debate for another day, Mr. Speaker, so I am not going to be chased down that road, thank you. But, Mr. Speaker, before I …

Ms. Susan E. Jackson I do want to mention some suggestions. The public service vehicle operators would like to have a seat at the table. They would like to be a member of the Public Service Vehicles Licens-ing Board and have some input into how the management and the developme nt of policies and …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member We would support it.

Ms. Susan E. Jackson —would be in the best interest. And, Mr. Speaker, I support a reduction in this payroll tax. [Inaudible interjections]

Ms. Susan E. Jackson I also . . . I support the reduction in payroll tax. I actually support doing away with this tax because to me it makes no sense. Thank you, Mr. Speaker .

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, MP Jackson. Deputy Speaker, I see you sprung to your feet. Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: Yes.

The Speaker The Speaker Would you like to make a contribution as well? Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: Thank you, Mr. Speaker .

The Speaker The Speaker Go ahead. Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: Mr. Speaker, the previous speaker . . . I do not know if she . . . I don’t think, I will venture to say, she has probably never driven a taxi. But . . . and she has no statistics on what …

The Speaker The Speaker Yes. Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: At one point she says that we have not increased the taxis since 1970. Well, that is true. That is true. But we have increased their seats. We have got minibuses, limousines, you know. We have buses that are more involved with moving tourists …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Exactly! A reduction. Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: It is a reduction in —

Ms. Susan E. Jackson Mr. Speaker — Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: —taxes. Sit down, Susan. [Inaudible interjections]

Ms. Susan E. Jackson Point of order.

The Speaker The Speaker Point of order. POINT OF ORDER [Misleading]

Ms. Susan E. Jackson Yes. Mr. Speaker, the Member may be slightly misleading the House. This payroll tax is ultimately on the vehicle which is paid by the owner. But the drivers, the operators, who may be numerous, they are not taxed. So, they are not getting a decrease in the payroll tax. [Inaudible …

Ms. Susan E. Jackson I just want to make that difference. Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: Mr. Speaker, that vehicle would not move unless you had a driver. [Inaudible interjections and l aughter] Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: Just like the trucks. That truck will not move without a driver. So, if we can …

The Speaker The Speaker [Microphone off] [Laughter] Bermuda House of Assembly Mr. Anthony Richardson: Mr. Speaker, I stand not to disappoint the Deputy, but I cannot stand silently, Mr. Speaker . I want to thank the former Member who spoke for bringing levity to the conversation. But I will start by saying this, Madam …

Mr. Anthony Richardson What is confusion? And I am going to be polite, Mr. Speaker, but I have to admit that when I first started, it was like we are going to have a payroll tax amendment whereby we are going to reduce the payroll tax for those persons that drive taxis. And …

Mr. Anthony Richardson So, let me try, let me try, let me try. The former speaker did say that she did not understand what this is all about. So let me try, Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the Ministers and others. This legislation, Mr. Speaker, is intended to ensure, number one, that the …

Mr. Anthony Richardson Yes, all of the government funds go to the Consolidated Fund, Mr. Speaker . This is some . . . that is an age- old practice. And so again to Mr. Swan, all of the fees that are raised by Government go into the Consolidated Fund to cover all of …

Ms. Susan E. Jackson Point of order, Mr. Speaker .

The Speaker The Speaker Point of order. POINT OF ORDER

Ms. Susan E. Jackson Point of order. The context of which I said that was that this was an ideal opportunity for those who would like to have an entrepreneurial spirit and, in particular, yes, I did recognise the value of this entrepreneurship for Black Bermudian males in particular. And, of course, there are …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you.

Mr. Anthony Richardson The speaker intimated that only Black people drive taxis. However, my point is this, Mr. Speaker, that we have to understand . . . and I was going to do this at a different time, but the demographic of the taxi industry is actually changing. And actually, if we look …

Mr. Anthony Richardson Ask me why I know. I beg your pardon? No, ask me why I know, Mr. Speaker, because we know in our own business now that if people say, Oops, I want a taxi, please, we have to respond by saying (depending on time of day, or whichever day it …

Ms. Susan E. Jackson Point of order, Mr. Speaker .

The Speaker The Speaker Point of order. POINT OF ORDER

Ms. Susan E. Jackson Yes, the Member back here is talking about limousines and prearranged . . . they are not even a part of this payroll tax. Not at all. They do not even pay payroll tax.

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member That is not true.

Mr. Anthony Richardson Mr. Speaker, there is this game. It is called whack -a-mole in terms of if your head comes up, you get smacked back down and do it like that. [Laughter]

Mr. Anthony Richardson And so, this afternoon, it appears as if right now we are engaged in a game of whack -a-mole. But the Member can surely remain in her seat while we finish off. Mr. Speaker, this idea — [Laughter and inaudible interjections ]

The Speaker The Speaker Just keep your conversation coming this way, please.

Mr. Anthony Richardson Yes, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this idea that the rest do not pay payroll tax actually makes no sense. The Minister just talked about earlier in fact that he is trying to make sure that there is fairness between what a taxi driver pays versus a minibus driver versus others, …

Ms. Susan E. Jackson Point of order, Mr. Speaker .

The Speaker The Speaker Point of order.

Mr. Anthony Richardson Whack -a-mole. [Laughter]

The Speaker The Speaker Members. Members! POINT OF ORDER

Ms. Susan E. Jackson Whack -a-mole. Mr. Speaker, the . . . a taxi vehicle in the prearranged is something that —and my understanding —is not even regulated. So that is a little bit — [Inaudible interjections]

Ms. Susan E. Jackson —out there because taxi drivers should be in the space under the Motor Car Act. [Inaudible interjections]

Mr. Anthony Richardson Mr. Speaker, I know you said not to do this because whack -a-mole does not quite work, but anyway, the Member is entirely misinformed. [Inaudible interjections]

Mr. Anthony Richardson Mr. Speaker, we know — with respect and without respect, but this is ridiculous, Mr. Speaker . [Inaudible interjections]

Mr. Anthony Richardson In the context of we know full well, full well, Mr. Speaker, that if I own a taxi I can Official Hansard Report 29 November 202 4 165 B ermuda House of Assembly do prearranged transport. And the, well, not the majority but many of them now are engaged in …

Mr. Anthony Richardson Oh, let me declare my interest. Let me declare my interes t, Mr. Speaker. Let me declare my interest. Very often, Mr. Speak er, very often means almost every day . I engage with persons involved in the transport indus try. So, trust me, I do know what I am …

Ms. Susan E. Jackson Point of order, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Anthony Richardson Oh my Lord, have mercy.

The Speaker The Speaker Yes. POINT OF ORDER

Ms. Susan E. Jackson I am going to s tand up and defend what I s aid. [Inaudible interjections ]

Ms. Susan E. Jackson I said this is an ideal entrepreneurial opportunity for thos e folks in Bermuda who may be Black Bermudian and male who have not been able to get themselves into the international business and all the other industries that do not necessarily welcome . . . thank y ou.

Mr. Anthony Richardson Mr. Speaker, I am not going to go back there anymore. [Inaudible interjections]

Mr. Anthony Richardson But what I will say— [Inaudible interjections]

Mr. Anthony Richardson Let me try my best—

Ms. Susan E. Jackson You better not.

Mr. Anthony Richardson Oh, I better not do that. Wow!

The Speaker The Speaker Move forward. Move forward. Move forward. Mr. Anthony Richardson: Let me try this, Mr. Speaker. The former speaker has said that the taxi industry represents an ideal entrepreneurial opportunity for Black males. How about that? Is that a reasonable summary? Good. [ Inaudible interjection]

Mr. Anthony Richardson That is unfortunately extremely biased because it represents an opportunity for anybody who gets a licence to go, whether it be male, female, Black, White, whatever the case may be, to drive transportation. And that is what we are seeing now in the industry. So, I will leave that alone …

Mr. Anthony Richardson Let’s not. Let’s . . . Let’s leave that for now. There is this thing, and I will not go there for now because it may have to come up later on in terms of the OBA has introduced dog- whistle politics. But that is not for right now. [ …

Mr. Anthony Richardson Mr. Speaker, the . . . What was interesting also was that the Members opposite at this point in time seem to be supporting what their Member said, although when she was speaking, I think she said she is not sure if those Members support her. But I will leave …

Mr. Anthony Richardson I will leave that alone. And I will just end on these two points, Mr. Speaker.

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member No! Keep going!

Mr. Anthony Richardson No, no, no, no, no. I will end on these two points because the — [ Inaudible interjections and laughter ]

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Deputy.

Mr. Anthony Richardson The Member talked already in terms of . . . She made it seem as if there are some dire instances within the transportation . . . The Member . . . The Member . . . Yes. Respect. Member Susan Jackson said . . . She made it appear …

Mr. Anthony Richardson The last thing I will say, Mr. Speaker . . . Oh, two more things. I am sorry. Let me clarify. This idea that the payroll tax is on vehicles, my note is: No. No. No. It makes no sense. And I will not go any further on that, Mr. …

Mr. Anthony Richardson My last comment though, is that— [Inaudible interjection]

Mr. Anthony Richardson —this does recognise that a reduction . . . My calculation, Mr. Minister, was 77 per cent. You said 80 per cent, but we will leave it there. To go down from $3,000 to $800 is a significant reduction. Anybody — [Inaudible interjection]

Mr. Anthony Richardson Sorry, $600. Anybody would welcome such reduction, Mr. Speaker. [Inaudible interjection]

Mr. Anthony Richardson That is fine. That is fine. And the last . . . the last, last, last, last point is (and I will just smile at Mr. Swan) that sometimes what happens is people are given what we call speaking points and act like buck -shot. They just throw everything at …

The Speaker The Speaker Ah! . . . MP.

Mr. Anthony Richardson Yes, Mr. Speaker? I am sorry.

The Speaker The Speaker Let me remind everybody you should always be speaking to the Speaker —

Mr. Anthony Richardson Yes. So, this was an example earlier —

The Speaker The Speaker —not the Gallery. You should be speaking this way.

Mr. Anthony Richardson Yes, Mr. Speaker. This was an example, I believe, of having all these things to say, trying everything, and hopefully some things stick. But unfortunately, in this instance, Mr. Speaker, I would offer the comment that nothing did stick. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. Is there anyone else? Junior Minister. Junior Minister? I mean Minister, rather. [Inaudible interjections ]

The Speaker The Speaker No, no, no, no. Minister is good. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Mr. Speaker, there are those who speak with boldness. Their words are loud and filled with flair. Yet, when their speech is examined, it holds no weight. Empty vessels make the most noise. Like a brazen gong or tinkling …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Well, you are the Government. [Inaudible interjections] Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: What they did say — Well, you would have no taxes. I am not sure anyone would agree on her side. I doubt it. I doubt that you would have no taxes at all. That is a lie from …

The Speaker The Speaker Now, Member, Member, Member, Member— Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Mr. Speaker , . . . Mr. Speaker, that is what Hell is. We all know what Hell is. And that is where it is coming from— the lies. So, Mr. Speaker, the Honourable Member . . . from 2012 to …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Yes. [Inaudible interjections and general uproar ] Bermuda House of Assembly Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Mr. Speaker, $15,000. And Mr. Speaker, under the Progressive Labour Party for five years we charged $5,000 to our taxi drivers — [Inaudible interjections ] Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: —Mr. Speaker, $5,000 to the taxi …

Some Hon. Members Some Hon. Members Yes, yes. [Inaudible interjections ] Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Mr. Speaker — [Inaudible interjections and general uproar ] [Gavel] Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Mr. Speaker, we talk about . . . We talk about, . . . The Honourable Member said that . . . and I thought I heard …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member That’s what she said. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: But Mr. Speaker, they said they sit around. You said you sit around. You said not earning a minimum wage. Mr. Speaker, they talk about seasonal —

Ms. Susan E. Jackson Point of order. He is misleading . . .

The Speaker The Speaker Point of order. Yes. POINT OF ORDER [Misleading]

Ms. Susan E. Jackson He is misleading . . . I did not talk about anybody’s 250 . . . I have no idea where that has come from. I may have said that there were 600 taxi permits. And I may have said 225 minibuses, but I did not talk about anybody’s . …

Ms. Susan E. Jackson I did not — Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: You said that. Mr. Speaker , the Honourable Member said they will add on more taxis.

The Speaker The Speaker Speak to me. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Increase taxi permits. That is what she said.

Ms. Susan E. Jackson Point of order! Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: The Honourable Member said—

Ms. Susan E. Jackson Point of order! Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: —they would increase taxis.

The Speaker The Speaker Point of order called. POINT OF ORDER

Ms. Susan E. Jackson All I ask is indulgence to check the Hansard first before he is going to make an entire payroll tax debate on additional things that I did not say.

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Yes, you did!

The Speaker The Speaker Member, you can lead us forward into Committee. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Mr. Speaker, I am sure the Hansard will clearly show that the Honourable Member said that we need additional taxi permits.

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member That’s what she said. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: I have no problem, Mr. Speaker. And I am sure the honourable technical team will make it very clear and go over it all again so . . . And I will make sure I send a copy to her press confer-ence, …

The Speaker The Speaker Deputy, would you like to assume the Chair? [Crosstalk] House in Committee at 2 :39 pm [Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr., Chairman] COMMITTEE ON BILL PAYROLL TAX AMENDMENT (NO. 2) ACT 2024

The Chairman Chairman Honourable Members, we are now in Committee of the whole [House] for further consideration of the Bill entitled the Payroll Tax Amendment (No. 2) Act 2024. Minister Furbert, you have the floor. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I move . . . First of all, …

The Chairman Chairman We are in Committee. You can move the clauses. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Yes, move . . . I am sorry. Move clauses 1, 2, . . .

The Chairman Chairman One through six. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: One through six.

The Chairman Chairman Continue. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Mr. Chairman, this Bill seeks to amend the Payroll Tax Act 1995 and Payroll Tax Rates Act 1995. Clause 1 provides the title of the Bill. Clause 2 inserts new section 9BA into the Payroll Tax 1995 (special provision for minibus operators). A minibus operator …

The Chairman Chairman Thank you, Minister. Any further speakers? The Chair recognises the Honourable Member Susan Jackson. You have the floor.

Ms. Susan E. Jackson Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a question in clause 2. And it is [new section 9BA(2)] “Notwithstanding the provisions of this Act or the Rates [Act] . . .” It is talking about [how] the payroll tax would not be a part of the employer’s stand-ard rate or the …

The Chairman Chairman Let’s look at the clause. I do not see —

Ms. Susan E. Jackson Do you want me to read it all?

The Chairman Chairman Please. Bermuda House of Assembly Ms. Susan E. Jackson: So, it is clause 2. Clause 2, and there is a [new section] 9BA. And it is the second 9BA. It is a little confusing. “[(2)] Notwithstanding the provisions of this Act or the Rates Act, a minibus operator shall not …

The Chairman Chairman You are not reading what I have got in front of me. I do not know what you got. This Bill . . . “Clause 2 inserts new section 9BA into the Payroll Tax Act 1995 (special provision for minibus operators).”

Ms. Susan E. Jackson Yes. And then number 2 in [parentheses] at the bottom of the page.

The Chairman Chairman No. I am reading clause 2. “A minibus operator will be required to pay a tiered rate of payroll tax per annum ($750, $1,000, and $1,500 as prescribed by clause 3) before his annual vehicle licence is issued by the Transport Control Department under the Motor Car Act 1951.” That …

The Chairman Chairman Yes, yes. I am looking at your notes. Okay. Oh, the . . . Right. The Explanatory [Memorandum] would explain that if you look at that. [Crosstalk]

The Chairman Chairman No. She has the right one, but the explanation is there in the back, in the . . . [Inaudible interjection]

The Chairman Chairman Yes. If you are not sure on that, then certainly continue.

Ms. Susan E. Jackson I will leave it alone. Thank you,

Mr. Chairman. The Chairman Any further speakers? There appear to be none. Minister? Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am sure the taxi drivers will be quite happy with what we are doing today. So, Mr. Chairman, I move that the preamble be approved.

The Chairman Chairman It has been moved that the preamble be approved. Are there any objections to that? [Inaudible interjection]

The Chairman Chairman Oh, move the clauses first. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: Sorry. Oh, yes. I move that clauses 1 . . .

The Chairman Chairman [Through] six. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: —through 6 be approved.

The Chairman Chairman It is moved that clauses 1 through 6 be approved. Are there any objections to that? There appear to be none. Approved. [Motion carried: Clauses 1 through 6 passed.] Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: I move that the preamble be approved.

The Chairman Chairman It has been moved that the preamble be approved. Are there any objections to that? There appear to be none. Approved. Hon. Wayne L. Furbert: I move that the Bill be reported to the House as printed.

The Chairman Chairman It has been moved that the Bill be reported to the House as printed. Are there any objections to that? There are none. The Bill will be reported to the House as printed. [Motion carried : The Payroll Tax Amendment (No. 2) Act 2024 was considered by a Committee of …

The Chairman Chairman Mr. Speaker. House resumed at 2:45 pm [Hon. Dennis P. Lister, Jr., Speaker, in the Chair] REPORT OF COMMITTEE PAYROLL TAX AMENDMENT (NO. 2) ACT 2024

The Speaker The Speaker Members, are there any objections to the Bill entitled the Payroll Tax Amendment (No. 2) Act 2024 being reported to the House as printed? There are none. The Bill has been reported as printed. Thank you, Members for your contributions for that matter. We will now move on to the …

Mr. Jache Adams Yes, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Jache Adams Mr. Speaker, I move that the Bill entitled the Contributory Pensions (Amendment of Benefits and Validation) Act 2024 be now read the second time.

The Speaker The Speaker Are there any objections? There are none. Continue. BILL SECOND READING CONTRIBUTORY PENSIONS (AMENDMENT OF BENEFITS AND VALIDATION) ACT 2024

Mr. Jache Adams Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to present the Contributory Pensions (Amendment of Benefits and Validation) Act 2024 to this Honourable House. This Bill seeks to amend the Contributory Pensions Act 1970 to retroactively validate certain payments made which were calculated on the basis of certain increased rates during the period …

The Speaker The Speaker [Microphone off.]

Mr. L. Craig Cannonier Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And thank you to the Junior Minister for bringing about somewhat of an explanation. Just trying to clarify . . . This change was up to 2019, did you say? Yes. It still seems like quite a few years that have gone by until we are …

The Speaker The Speaker [Microphone off]

Mr. Jache Adams Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And thank you to the Honourable Member. I would agree that certainly some time had passed, but that is how oversight works sometimes. You are only made aware of it when you are made aware of it. And when we have been aware of it, we …

The Speaker The Speaker [Microphone off] House in Committee at 2 :49 pm [Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr., Chairman] COMMITTEE ON BILL CONTRIBUTORY PENSIONS (AMENDMENT OF BENEFITS AND VALIDATION) ACT 2024

The Chairman Chairman Honourable Member s, we are now in Committee of the whole for further consideration of the Bill entitled the Contributory Pensions (Amendment of Benefits and Validation) Act 2024. Junior Minister Adams, you have the floor.

Mr. Jache Adams Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I move that clauses 1 through 3 . . .

The Chairman Chairman Continue.

Mr. Jache Adams Mr. Chairman, this Bill seeks to amend the Contributory Pensions Act 1970 to retroactively validate certain payments made which were Bermuda House of Assembly calculated on the basis of certain increased rates during the period of August 16, 2018 to August 15, 2019. Clause 1 provides the title of the …

The Chairman Chairman Any further speakers to this Bill? There appear to be none. [Junior] Minister, [do] you want to move the clauses?

Mr. Jache Adams Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that clauses 1 through 3 be approved.

The Chairman Chairman It has been moved that clauses 1 through 3 be approved. Are there any objections to that? There appear to be none. Approved. [Motion carried: Clauses 1 through 3 passed.]

The Chairman Chairman The preamble, do the preamble.

Mr. Jache Adams Mr. Chairman, I move that the preamble be approved.

The Chairman Chairman It has been moved that the preamble be approved. Are there any objections to that? There appear to be none. The preamble is approved.

Mr. Jache Adams Mr. Chairman, I move that the Bill be reported to the House as printed.

The Chairman Chairman It has been moved that the Bill be reported to the house as printed. Are there any objections to that? There appear to be none. The Bill will be reported to the House as printed. [Motion carried: The Contributory Pensions (Amendment of Benefits and Validation) Act 2024 was considered by …

The Chairman Chairman Mr. Speaker . House resumed at 2:52 pm [Hon. Dennis P. Lister, Jr., Speaker, in the Chair] REPORT OF COMMITTEE CONTRIBUTORY PENSIONS (AMENDMENT OF BENEFITS AND VALIDATION) ACT 2024

The Speaker The Speaker Members, are there any objections to the Bill entitled Contributory Pensions (Amendment of Benefits and Validation) Act 2024 being reported to the House as printed? There are none. Thank you, Members, for your contributions. We now move on to the next item which is the second reading of the Public …

The Speaker The Speaker Are there any objections? There are none. Continue. BILL SECOND READING PUBLIC ACCESS TO INFORMATION AMENDMENT ACT 2024 Hon. Crystal Caesar: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Public Access to Information Amendment Act 2024 provides for amendments to the Public Access to Information Act 2010, known as PATI, and …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Minister. Does any other Member wish to make a contribution at this time? MP Campbell, you have the floor.

Mr. Vance Campbell Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, under the Westminster system of Government, which is what we have here in Bermuda, two of the key responsibilities of a Cabinet Minister are formulation and implementation of Government policy and to publicly defend and represent these policies, sometimes even if those policies do …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Yes. Do you remember that? [Laughter]

Mr. Vance Campbell —and now in my new role—

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member What’s your role? Another Hon. Member: Tell us what your new role is?

Mr. Vance Campbell —I am about to provide scrutiny—

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Whack -a-mole. [Inaudible interjections and laughter ]

Mr. Vance Campbell —on that same Bill. [Crosstalk and laughter ]

Mr. Vance Campbell Tip to go one. Tip to go one. Gets out, gets in. [Inaudible interjections]

Mr. Vance Campbell Mr. Speaker, many of the clauses in this Public Access to Information Amendment Act 2024, as the Minister has rightly pointed out, 174 29 November 2024 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly are minor and procedural. And she quite succinctly captured their purpose of streamlining, providing clarity and proper …

The Speaker The Speaker Point of order. POINT OF ORDER Hon. Walter H. Roban: I know the Honourable Member is looking to give robust discussion but being very specific in clauses should be saved until the—

The Speaker The Speaker Yes. Hon. Walter H. Roban: —next part of this —

The Speaker The Speaker Point taken. Point taken. Hon. Walter H. Roban: —Bill’s debate. He should be more general with his discussions —

The Speaker The Speaker Point taken. Hon. Walter H. Roban: —around the Bill.

The Speaker The Speaker He did dance into the fact that he thought he was getting on thin ice and then he slipped into it in a minute. So . . . [Inaudible interjection]

The Speaker The Speaker Yes. Get on a thicker piece of ice, please.

Mr. Vance Campbell Mr. Speaker, I did ask for your guidance should I be standing on thin ice. [Inaudible interjections]

Mr. Vance Campbell So the point is taken. [Pause]

Mr. Vance Campbell As a result of our concerns with the language and our concerns about the impact this may have on inclusivity, transparency [and] accountability, the One Bermuda Alliance is calling on the Government to pause, pull up the hand break and reconsider the char ging of fees. You know, until government …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Ooh! [Inaudible interjection]

Mr. Vance Campbell Yes. [Laughter ]

Mr. Vance Campbell Whether these tools that would be needed have been created. Whether the guidance has been created and whether or not the training on the application of the limits and fees has commenced or been completed. As the then Minister said, on behalf of the Government, this would be required to …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. Does any other Member . . . Deputy Speaker. Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I support this Bill.

The Speaker The Speaker Uh-huh. Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: I think it is a good Bill. And I think the reason it was brought here is that some organisations and people, individuals, think that PATI is their own research department.

Some Hon. Members Some Hon. Members Mm-hmm. Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: Which it is not. And many times, as we have seen, experienced over the years, certain organisations will go there, get information and if it is not what they want, put a spin on it to make those who they do not like so …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Deputy. Does any other . . . MP Caines.

Mr. Wayne Caines If it pleases you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker The Speaker Go right ahead.

Mr. Wayne Caines Mr. Speaker, legislation is a breathing organism. And oftentimes you pass a Bill, and it goes out to the general public, or it goes to the department or it goes to the entity, and to make it stronger, to make it fairer, to make it more balanced you have t …

Mr. Wayne Caines Yes, it is called the Cause Book in the Supreme Court. And when I was a young lawyer, you had to pay something what is called for . . . you had to write to the Registrar, Mr. Speaker. And it is called précis. And you have to pay to …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, MP. Does any other Member wish to make a contribution? MP Jamahl Simmons.

Mr. Jamahl S. Simmons Thank you, Mr. Speaker. PATI never fed a child, not one. PATI never housed a family, not one. And the concern that we are hearing of fairness today, I have to ask the question. Where was this concern for fairness when you all slashed scholarships? Where was this concern for …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Now you are preaching. Come on!

Mr. Jamahl S. Simmons Where was this thing for fairness? Now I get it. I know that the PATI legislation turns on your supporters. They really like it because it is all about get them thieving PLPs. Expose that thiev-ing PLP. [Inaudible interjections]

Mr. Jamahl S. Simmons That is what . . . look. You guys can say . . . I know. I know firsthand. And if the Honourable Member who led this debate for his side had spoken to me beforehand, I could tell him firsthand. But let’s be clear, Mr. Speaker. I am a …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member You can say it. [Inaudible interjections]

Mr. Jamahl S. Simmons I am putting it in context. Right? So, The Royal Gazette knows very well the amount of times I have called them up and chastised them because of lazy journalism. Journalism by PATI request alone. And this is a pet peeve of mine, you are all going to call me …

Mr. Wayne Caines And the work it takes!

Mr. Jamahl S. Simmons And the work that it takes. And this is something critical. I’m glad my honourable colleague, Mr. Caines, raised it, the work it takes. Right? Because as a Minister in Bermuda, we have very limited resources. We have very limited resources when it comes t o . . . We …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, MP Simmons. MP King. Would you like to make a contribution at this time?

Mr. Robert King Absolutely, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker The Speaker Go right ahead.

Mr. Robert King Members of this Honourable House and the listening public, what I find interesting from the presentations that are being made on the current Administration’s side is that when persons are trying to seek the truth what is suggested is that somehow or another the Opposition—whose purpose it is to seek …

Mr. Wayne Caines Point of order, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker The Speaker Point of order. POINT OF ORDER [Misleading]

Mr. Wayne Caines This Member is unintentionally misleading the House. None of the speakers who got up, Mr. Speaker, said anything about the malicious intent of the speakers [who were] replying to the circumstances. There was not one speaker who used the words “malicious i ntent” in their reply. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. Just be mindful [of the] comments.

Mr. Robert King I will accept that, Mr. Speaker. 178 29 November 2024 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly What was said was he understands how the Opposition tends to use legislation, or its opposition to it, to rally up — Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: Point of order, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Robert King —its support base. That is essentially what was intimated.

The Speaker The Speaker Point of order. POINT OF ORDER [Misleading] Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: The Government . . . no one from the Government’s side said that . . . made any reference to the Opposition. Not once.

The Speaker The Speaker I . . . I—

Mr. Robert King Point of clarification.

The Speaker The Speaker Deputy, you . . . you— [Inaudible interjections]

The Speaker The Speaker You were out at the time and taking care of a matter when it was said.

Mr. Robert King So the point is, Mr. Speaker — [Inaudible interjections]

Mr. Robert King Here is the other thing too. We have a difficult time here in the House as the official Opposi-tion getting answers to questions on the floor an-swered. So what chance does the public have—

Mr. Wayne Caines Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker. Point of order.

The Speaker The Speaker Point of order. POINT OF ORDER [Misleading]

Mr. Wayne Caines This Member is again misleading the House, and deliberately so. We have a policy . . . the Standing Orders state that we have a mechanism where you ask questions, and those questions are answered. The notion to be saying to the public in this forum that the Opposition, the …

Mr. Robert King Point of clarification. The Honourable Member is half right. What I am referring to is when you get a yes or a no, and we will get back to you. Those sorts of things that are happening here — [Inaudible interjections]

Mr. Robert King —speak to the difficulties that the public is going to have trying to get access —

Mr. Wayne Caines Point of order, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Robert King —to information.

Mr. Wayne Caines Point of order, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Robert King Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have nothing further.

The Speaker The Speaker You can’t go up and down. The point may be the interpretation. You ask a question, and you get a response. It may not be the information you are looking for but you—

Mr. Wayne Caines Ask questions properly.

The Speaker The Speaker —get a response.

Mr. Wayne Caines You got to know what to ask them.

The Speaker The Speaker And so just not to have us up and down, up and down, the answer [does] not necessarily always provide the information, but there is an answer. You can go forward. I wasn’t sitting you down. [Inaudible interjections]

The Speaker The Speaker Oh, all right. I wasn’t sitting you down. [Inaudible interjections]

Mr. Robert King I have made my point. Thank you, sir.

The Speaker The Speaker Oh, okay. All right. I didn’t want you to sit down because I put you in your seat.

Mr. Robert King No, no.

The Speaker The Speaker Okay. Minister.

Mr. Christopher Famous Good afternoon, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker The Speaker Good afternoon.

Mr. Christopher Famous Mr. Speaker, this is not a matter of transparency, lack of transparency, or a lack Bermuda House of Assembly of fairness, as some would try to have the public believe. This is about whether or not what we are doing is reasonable and rational.

The Speaker The Speaker Hmmm.

Mr. Christopher Famous We have speakers who have talked about the PATI legislation, or the access to information there being a charge [for] that information. What we should be discussing about is whether that is rational and reasonable. What is the response when we ask How do we reduce frivolous and vexatious PATI …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member That is the question. That’s it.

Mr. Christopher Famous What is the response to that?

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Exactly.

Mr. Christopher Famous We still have where there is no charge for requests that are under 16 hours, two full working days. So we are happy for a public officer to take their time. And there will be multiple public officers because there are multiple requests that may be into the government at …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Hmmm.

Mr. Christopher Famous When I go to the Registrar’s office and I want a copy of my own information, which is my birth certificate, I pay for it. That’s one document, and it’s mine.

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member It’s yours, for $50.

Mr. Christopher Famous And so we ask ourselves, Is it reasonable? Yes, because it is an administrative process to file that information, to store that infor-mation, to maintain the records and to also retrieve it and provide it to me in an efficient manner. So, this is what we are discussing. Whether or …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Underhanded.

Mr. Christopher Famous —underhanded, rational approach to it? Why is it deemed now [that] we are cutting access to information? The same information that will be provided before this law, will be the same information people have access to after this law is passed. The access to the information does not change. The …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Uh-oh.

Mr. Christopher Famous I did not hear that come from the submission that was provided. But what I did hear was a number of additional questions that the Minister will happily provide answers to. But the same problem that was in place and existed when that Member was a Minister, is the same …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Minister. Does any other Member . . . MP Scott Simmons.

Mr. Scott Simmons Thank you, very much, Mr. Speaker. And good afternoon to colleagues.

The Speaker The Speaker Good afternoon.

Mr. Scott Simmons Mr. Speaker, I have listened carefully to my colleagues. I have listened to both sides of the House. The difficulty that I feel that we have not also presented as it relates to this matter is in relation to the fact that the person who is in charge of the …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, MP Simmons. MP Ming. Would you like to make a contribution at this time?

Mrs. Renee Ming Mr. Speaker, and listening audience. Mr. Speaker, I am firmly one who believes that if you spend a dollar, we should be looking to make two.

Mrs. Renee Ming Right? And especially as we sit here— [Inaudible interjections]

Mrs. Renee Ming I don’t know how you would know about that.

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Uh-oh! [Inaudible interjections and laughter ]

Mrs. Renee Ming But when we think and we consider the Bill, I am one who is very supportive of the public access to information. I believe that the Government has an obligation to be accountable to the taxpayer. So there is no issue with me there in terms of anything to do …

The Speaker The Speaker Hmmm.

Mrs. Renee Ming Because that could be a lot of our people in terms of that. And then even when we start to look at charging fees, what does that actually mean and where do we monitor that in terms of . . . if we saw like a reduction of PATI requests …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. Does any other Member . . . MP Cannonier, Opposition Whip.

Mr. L. Craig Cannonier Yes, thank you. Thank you very much. I don’t usually say this, but I will be brief. I think I want to just, for right now, set the record that this has certainly been something that we were looking at as far as being fair and equitable. And in that …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, MP. MP Lister, would you like to make a contribution at this time?

Mr. Dennis Lister III Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And to the listening audience. Mr. Speaker, my comments will be brief as much has been said. But I do stand to my feet in support of the PATI amendment. Mr. Speaker, I think each one of us here as MPs, whether a Minister or as …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, MP. Does any other Member wish to make a contribution? Minister. Hon. Crystal Caesar: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And thank you for all the questions. I would like to go through them and answer because, you know, we hear about this issue about fairness and transparency. These amendments …

The Speaker The Speaker Lead us to Committee; we can discuss them all in Committee. Hon. Crystal Caesar: Okay. Thank you. 184 29 November 202 4 Official Hansard Report B ermuda House of Assembly With that, Mr. Speaker, I move that the Bill be committed.

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Minister. Deputy. House in Committee at 4: 08 pm [Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr., Chairman] COMMITTEE ON BILL PUBLIC ACCESS TO INFORMATION AMENDMENT ACT 2024

The Chairman Chairman Honourable Members, we are now in Committee of the whole [House] for further consideration of the Bill entitled Public Access to Information Amendment Act 2024 . Mi nister Caesar, you have the floor. Hon. Crystal Caesar: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

The Chairman Chairman Mm-hmm. Hon. Crystal Caesar: Mr. Chairman, I move clause 1—

The Chairman Chairman Mm-hmm. Hon. Crystal Caesar: —which gives the citation, defines the principal Act and principal Regulations.

The Chairman Chairman Want to move a few clauses at a time? Hon. Crystal Caesar: I figured you might say that.

The Chairman Chairman Yes. Hon. Crystal Caesar: Yes. So I also move clauses 2 [sic] through 16.

The Chairman Chairman You want to move from 1 through 16? Hon. Crystal Caesar: Clauses 1 through 16. Okay.

The Chairman Chairman Okay. Let’s go. Hon. Crystal Caesar: I thought I moved [clause] 1 already, but okay.

The Chairman Chairman Yes. Hon. Crystal Caesar: Okay. So that would be all the clauses, Mr. Chairman. Clause 2 amends section 2 [of the principal Act] (the purpose clause). In light of the introduction of the appropriate and upper limits of the time that a public authority can spend on responding to a …

The Chairman Chairman Clause 13. Hon. Crystal Caesar: —regulation 13B —

The Chairman Chairman Clause 13. Hon. Crystal Caesar: I’m sorry. Clause 13, sorry. I’m not sure what I said. Clause 13 inserts regulation 13B into the principal Regulations, which lists the matters that may be taken into account by a public authority in estimating the time that will be taken to respond to …

The Chairman Chairman Thank you, Minister. Are there any speakers to clauses 1 through 16? The Chair recognises the Honourable Member Campbell.

Mr. Vance Campbell Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Minister, if we can go to clause 6, which inserts 13A. I touched on this a bit more than I should in my general comments, but I would like to go back to it. You used terminology that the public authority is obligated to go back …

The Chairman Chairman Any further speakers? There appear to be none. Minister. Hon. Crystal Caesar: Mr. Chairman, give me two seconds, please.

The Chairman Chairman Pardon? 186 29 November 2024 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly Hon. Crystal Caesar: I just need two seconds to find the answer to that particular question.

The Chairman Chairman Okay. Hon. Crystal Caesar: Thank you.

Mr. Vance Campbell Sorry, Mr. Chairman.

The Chairman Chairman Go ahead.

Mr. Vance Campbell I did forget one thing.

The Chairman Chairman Uh-huh.

Mr. Vance Campbell In clause 16—

Mr. Vance Campbell —it says here, “[(3)] The Minister may, by regulations subject to the negative resolution procedure, make such transitional and saving pro-vision as the Minister considers necessary or expedient . . .”. Then if we go to the [principal] Act itself on page 29, at the bottom there, in the Miscellaneous …

The Chairman Chairman Mm-hmm.

Mr. Vance Campbell —as to whether it is a negative or positive resolution. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

The Chairman Chairman Minister. [Pause]

The Chairman Chairman But as you know, MP — Go ahead, Minister. I’m sorry. Hon. Crystal Caesar: Okay. Mr. Chairman, with regard to the question as it pertains to clause 6, and if there was consideration for clearer language in terms of what an authority is required to do if a request does …

The Chairman Chairman Any further questions/comments to the Minister on clauses 1 through 16? There appear to be none. Minister, do you want to move the 16 clauses? Hon. Crystal Caesar: Yes, Mr. Chairman. I move that the preamble be approved.

The Chairman Chairman No, do the preamble next. Do the— Hon. Crystal Caesar: I’m sorry.

The Chairman Chairman —clauses first, please. Hon. Crystal Caesar: I’m sorry. I move that clauses 1 through 16 be approved.

The Chairman Chairman It has been moved that clauses 1 through 16 be approved. Are there any objections to that? There appear to be none. Approved. [Motion carried: Clauses 1 through 16 passed.] Hon. Crystal Caesar: I move that the preamble be approved.

The Chairman Chairman It has been moved that the preamble be approved. Are there any objections to that? There appear to be none. Approved. Hon. Crystal Caesar: I move that the Bill be reported to the House as printed.

The Chairman Chairman It has been moved that the Bill be reported to the House as printed. Are there any objections to that? There appear to be none. The Bill will be reported to the House as printed. [Motion carried: The Public Access to Information Amendment Act 2024 w as considered by a …

The Chairman Chairman Mr. Speaker. Proceedings resumed at 4:23 pm [Hon. Dennis P. Lister, Jr., Speaker, in the Chair] REPORT OF COMMITTEE PUBLIC ACCESS TO INFORMATION AMENDMENT ACT 2024

The Speaker The Speaker Members, are there any objections to the Bill entitled the Public Access to Information Amendment Act 2024 being reported to the House as printed? The Bill has been reported as printed. Members, if you are looking at the Order Paper in front of you, there are two other items on …

Mr. Hubert (Kim) E. Swan Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I move that Standing Order 23(3) be suspended to enable the House to proceed with the consideration of the Order entitled Tourism Investment (Swan Pyrotechnics Limited) Order 2024 proposed to be made by the Minister responsible for Tourism under section 3 of the Tourism …

The Speaker The Speaker Hold up. Members, are there any objections to that? Do we have the indulgence of the House for the Junior Min-ister to proceed? We do. Junior Minister. [Motion carried: Standing Order 23(3) was suspended.] DRAFT ORDER TOURISM INVESTMENT (SWAN PYROTECHNICS LIMITED) ORDER 2024

Mr. Hubert (Kim) E. Swan Thank you, Mr. Speaker, for that indulgence. Mr. Speaker, the purpose of bringing this Tourism Investment (Swan Pyrotechnics Limited) Order 2024 before this Honourable House is to enable the grant of tax relief to developers investing in the tourism product Swan Pyrotechnic s, which is in the national interest of …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome.

Mr. Hubert (Kim) E. Swan Mr. Speaker, SPL services range from traditional firework displays to intricate pyromusical which incorporates special effects, close proximity effects and advanced pyrotechnic features. Mr. Kyle Swan brings a safety -minded and sensible approach to the SPL’s operations. He has in-vested in top- of-the-line industry -leading equipment which guarantees the safest …

Mr. Hubert (Kim) E. Swan Mr. Speaker, Honourable Members will note that Swan Pyrotechnics Limited has been awarded full relief from custom’s duty for a period not exceeding five years from the operative date of the Tourism Investment Order in respect of any equipment, 188 29 November 2024 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Junior Minister. Does any other Member wish to make a contribution at this time? Opposition Whip, MP Cannonier.

Mr. L. Craig Cannonier Yes, thank you. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And we do not have to be long here. I want to congratulate the member that is visiting the Chambers on this designation that has been given, Swan Pyro-technics Limited, on this five -year . . . I don’t know if I call …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you.

Mr. L. Craig Cannonier But yes, Mr. Speaker, this is a good thing. And maybe the Junior Minister can give us a little more clarity on some of those things that I asked about, especially does this include fireworks? I am assuming also with this that . . . I am not sure where …

Mr. L. Craig Cannonier Is it? Okay. Okay. Well, I am glad that the Government has finally gotten to this point. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Member. MP Caines. Would you like to make a contribution today?

Mr. Wayne Caines If it pleases you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Wayne Caines When you talk to young Bermudians they often talk, Mr. Speaker, about their challenges with reference to coming back to Bermuda and finding their rightful place. We mentioned today in one of the earlier speeches about young Bermudians being abroad and not wanting to come back home . . . …

Mr. Wayne Caines We are having Southampton Princess get ready. A number of the corporations, they come and they have their big events in Bermuda. They love to end the shows with what? A fireworks display, the pyrotechnics display.

Mr. Wayne Caines Mr. Swan has stayed the course. He has done everything academically. He has invested financially. He has done the work. He has done the research. He has done the preparation. He has done the training. And he has been deemed a fit and proper person to get the licence. And …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, MP. Does any other Member wish to make a contribution? MP Campbell.

Mr. Vance Campbell Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will be brief.

Mr. Vance Campbell I just want to also congratulate Mr. Swan. I do support this. Thank you, Mr. Swan, for being extremely patient, but you are finally there. I trust that one of those events annually will be on the old Guy Fawkes holiday—

Mr. Vance Campbell Well, actually it was not a holiday. But, you know — [Laughter]

Mr. Vance Campbell —one of those childhood memories that are just a memory because we did not know how to behave ourselves on that day. But again, congratulations. I look forward to seeing your show. And like the previous speaker [said], it is an enhancement to activities that are available on Island, for …

The Speaker The Speaker MP . . . Opposition Leader. Hon. Jarion Richardson: Yes, I wanted to stand up and congratulate Mr. Swan. In my former life I was on the explosive ordnance disposal team in the Bermuda Police Service and I know how difficult it is just to handle explosives in Bermuda and …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. Does any other Member . . . MP Richardson.

Mr. Anthony Richardson Mr. Speaker, good afternoon. I will just say this very, very briefly to Mr. Swan.

Mr. Anthony Richardson I did not know him until I came into the House this afternoon. So thanks to him for coming on by. And, Mr. Speaker, it is one of those times where I will plead ignorance. I have no idea of what is required to operate pyrotechnics. But guess what, Mr. …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. Does any Member . . . Premier. [Inaudible interjection]

The Speaker The Speaker Premier, you look like you want to rise. [Laughter] Hon. E. David Burt: Mr. Speaker, I just was not expecting that many speakers before me. But that is okay. Mr. Speaker, I will lend my voice to this but what I also want to do is to make sure that …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member No, sir. Hon. E. David Burt: That is not correct. Swan Pyrotechnics already has a licence under the Explosive Substances Act 1974 (for you, MP from constituency 12), administered, as the Opposition Leader said, by the Bermuda Police Service. And they have that li-cence. What we are discussing here today …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Premier. Does any other Member wish to make a contribution? There is none. Junior Minister.

Mr. Hubert (Kim) E. Swan Mr. Speaker, after the Premier’s comprehensive contribution I think all that remains for me to do is just to once again thank Mr. Swan, who I have just gotten to meet but his passion and his love was not deterred during COVID -19 as he shared with me that that …

The Speaker The Speaker Are there any objections? There are none. The Order has been approved. [Motion carried: The Tourism Investment (Swan Pyrotechnics Limited) Order 2024 was approved.]

The Speaker The Speaker Now, would you like to stand up again and do your second one? [Inaudible interjections and laughter ]

The Speaker The Speaker I saw you sit down. Let’s go. [Crosstalk]

Mr. Hubert (Kim) E. Swan Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker The Speaker Yes. SUSPENSION OF ORDER 23(3)

Mr. Hubert (Kim) E. Swan I move that Standing Order 23(3) be suspended to enable the House to proceed with the consideration of the Order entitled the Tourism Investment (Rosedon Hotel) Order 2024 proposed to be made by the Minister responsible for Tourism under section 3 of the Tourism Investment Act 2017 together with the …

The Speaker The Speaker Are there any objections? There are none. Continue. [Motion carried: Standing Order 23(3) was suspended.] DRAFT ORDER TOURISM INVESTMENT (ROSEDON HOTEL) ORDER 2024

Mr. Hubert (Kim) E. Swan Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The purpose of bringing this Tourism Investment (Rosedon Hotel) Order 2024 before this Honourable House is to enable the grant of tax relief to the de-velopers investing in the tourism product Rosedon Hotel, Rosedon Limited, which is in the national interest of Bermuda. Mr. Speaker, I …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. Does any Member wish to speak? The Opposition Whip.

Mr. L. Craig Cannonier Yes, Mr. Speaker. I only have two questions, and the Honourable Junior Minister has answered one of them. So, thank you for giving us a peek at some of the renovations that are about to take place. And first let me say this here, to Rosedon, listen, I am all …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. MP Caines.

Mr. Wayne Caines If it pleases you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Wayne Caines Mr. E. J. Thompson built this hotel, and his family built this hotel in 1906. He named it after his son, Robert Rosedon Thompson. And in the 1930s the hotel was sold to the Brown family. And in 1954 the hotel was sold to the Kitson family. And since 1954 …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, MP Caines. Deputy Premier. Hon. Walter H. Roban: Yes, Mr. Speaker. I would just like to give a brief few words and compliments to the Junior Minister [for] bringing these Tourism Investment Orders as the Honourable and Learned Member who just took his seat has eloquently articulated how …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Deputy. Does any other Member . . . MP De Silva. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it gives me great pleasure to stand and support this wonderful change with regard to the tourism investment that the Kitsons are going …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. Does any Member wish to make a contribution? Junior Minister.

Mr. Hubert (Kim) E. Swan Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the one question that the Shadow Minister (former Premier) had, he pretty much an-swered himself in that there is time that is needed to take place to get different approvals, which includes also the Ministry of Finance and the like. There is some to …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Junior Minister. Are there any objections to this Order being approved? There are none. The Order has been approved. [Motion carried: The Tourism Investment (Rosedon Hotel) Order 2024 Order 2024 was approved.]

The Speaker The Speaker Members, that brings us to a close of business today other than for third readings. Will the Minister for the contribution . . . the Junior Minister . . . There you are. Minister Caesar, would you like to do your third reading? Will someone get the Junior Minister of …

The Speaker The Speaker Any objections to that? There are none. Continue, Minister. [Motion carried: Standing Order 21 suspended.] BILL THIRD READING PUBLIC ACCESS TO INFORMATION AMENDMENT ACT 2024 Hon. Crystal Caesar: I move that the Bill be now read a third time by its title only and passed.

The Speaker The Speaker The Bill has been read a third time by its title only and is now passed. [Motion carried: The Public Access to Information Amendment Act 2024 w as read a third time and passed.]

The Speaker The Speaker Minister Hayward, are you going to do it for the Junior Minister? SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDER 21 Hon. Jason Hayward: Mr. Speaker, I move that Standing Order 21 be suspended to enable me to move the Bill entitled Contributory Pensions (Amendment of Benefits and Validation) Act 2024 be now read …

The Speaker The Speaker Are there any objections? There are none. Continue, Minister. [Motion carried: Standing Order 21 suspended.] BILL THIRD READING CONTRIBUTORY PENSIONS (AMENDMENT OF BENEFITS AND VALIDATION) ACT 2024 Hon. Jason Hayward: I move that the Bill be now read a third time by its title only and passed.

The Speaker The Speaker The Bill has been read a third time by its title only and has now passed. [Motion carried: The Contributory Pensions (Amendment of Benefits and Validation) Act 2024 was read a third time and passed.]

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. Deputy Premier. [Crosstalk]

The Speaker The Speaker You forgot the Payroll. Payroll. Payroll. Payroll. SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDER 21 Hon. E. David Burt: Mr. Speaker, I move that Standing Order 21 be suspended to enable me to move the Bill entitled the Payroll Tax Amendment (No. 2) Act 2024 be now read for the third time by …

The Speaker The Speaker Are there any objections? Premier, continue. [Motion carried: Standing Order 21 suspended.] BILL THIRD READING PAYROLL TAX AMENDMENT (NO.2) ACT 2024 Hon. E. David Burt: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I move that the Bill entitled the Payroll Tax Amendment (No. 2) Act 2024 be now read a third …

The Speaker The Speaker The Bill has been read for a third time by its title only and is now passed. [Motion carried: The Payroll Tax Amendment (No. 2) Act 2024 was read a th ird time and passed.]

The Speaker The Speaker And with that, let me remind Ministers that after they do their debate their business is not finished until it is passed. If they are not here and it doesn’t get passed, your Bill does not move forward.

Mr. Premier. ADJOURNMENT Hon. E. David Burt premier Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I move that this Honourable House do now adjourn until Friday, 6 December. 196 29 November 2024 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly The Speaker: MP Richardson, are you stretching your legs? Or would you like [to make] a contribution? [Laughter]

Mr. Anthony Richardson Mr. Speaker —

Mr. Anthony Richardson I stand to give some comments on the motion to adjourn. [Inaudible interjections]

Mr. Anthony Richardson Earlier on, Mr. Speaker, they were giving me the cricket analogy in terms of for my first time, Mr. Speaker, I have the honour of being the opening bat for this motion to adjourn. [Inaudible interjections]

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Don’t fail me. BEING THANKFUL

Mr. Anthony Richardson I am not going to fail you. I might not get 100; I will get at least 50. So, Mr. Speaker, today I stand to give comments, and as they say in church, if I have to give a theme, give a title to it, it would be “Thanksgiving.” And …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Jones. Police Commissioner, a deputy Commissioner.

Mr. Anthony Richardson Why do I refer to her, Mr. Speaker? I don’t know if my mother is listening; I hope my children are not listening. But I came into contact with her because she was a police officer.

Some Hon. Members Some Hon. Members Oh-oh!

Mr. Anthony Richardson And one Saturday night I chose to do what I should not do. Which is to ride a motorbike without a licence and underage. [Inaudible interjections]

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member What?

Mr. Anthony Richardson I came to the junction of Victoria Street. I chose to turn left without stopping. And guess what? I was . . . I was not arrested. I was booked, I guess.

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Book ‘em, Danno.

Mr. Anthony Richardson And then at that time, Mr. Speaker, they had what is called the Juvenile Liaison Scheme, of which I was a product — [Inaudible interjections]

Mr. Anthony Richardson —a beneficiary —

Mr. Anthony Richardson —and she came to my house. And actually at that stage there was a level of embarrassment in terms of a police officer coming to your house. And what did she do? She chose (I guess I asked her) to come in plain clothes. And that took place over a …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Tell us.

Mr. Anthony Richardson Mr. Speaker, I am also thankful because at some point in my life I was the Ac-countant General. But it doesn’t matter. What does matter is that there was a man, there were two of them actually. One man was named Ed Daniels who was a master mason. He had …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member My alma mater.

Mr. Anthony Richardson Your alma mater. Where my wife happens to be the school principal, Dr. Holly Richardson. I walked in, there were some young people and I said, Good afternoon. And they of course, the teacher actually, the deputy principal, said, Hey, say good afternoon to Mr. Richardson. A bright smile came …

The Speaker The Speaker Is there any other Member who wishes to make a contribution at this time? Any other Member? Anybody rising? Nobody is rising. [No audio] BEING THANKFUL

Mr. Wayne Caines If it pleases you, Mr. Speaker. My colleague just now started with the opening bat. I am facing the new ball, and I am not a cricket man so I do not know what the second player on the team is called, or if there is indeed a name for …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Second batter.

Mr. Wayne Caines Second batter? So I am the second batter, Mr. Speaker. [Laughter]

Mr. Wayne Caines Today I wish to highlight a word that was just used by my colleague, MP for constitu-ency 7, and that was being thankful. And if I had to coin a phrase, if I had to entitle, if I had to reflect on the last week or this year on my …

Mr. Wayne Caines I think in Bermuda we have to be thankful for our social services. Mr. [Deputy] Speaker, yesterday I went to . . . yesterday I went to the treatment courts graduation. The drug treatment court, the mental health court, the driving- whilst -impaired court — all of these courts held …

The Deputy Speaker Deputy Speaker I didn’t know that.

Mr. Wayne Caines And I declare my interest. She is a lady that I know very well. [Laughter]

The Deputy Speaker Deputy Speaker Oh, yes.

Mr. Wayne Caines And I will leave that as the high watermark, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

The Deputy Speaker Deputy Speaker Yes, sir.

Mr. Wayne Caines Mr. Deputy Speaker —Mr. Speaker, I sat in the court and I listened to young men come forward and describe what their life was like when they were addicted to drugs. And he would not mind, because he gave his testimony online today, Mr. Trevor Lindsay. Mr. Trevor Lindsay came …

Mr. Wayne Caines That was the theme. I was forced to reflect on the treatment courts. Most people while they acknowledge . . . and you very rarely hear people say that these courts were not of benefit to Bermuda. Many people in the room acknowledged that the treat-ment court changes lives. Many …

The Deputy Speaker Deputy Speaker Mm-hmm.

Mr. Wayne Caines This is what a therapeutic court looks like. This is the purpose of our helping agencies. This is why judges are important, to have a holistic approach. Mr. Deputy Speaker, this did not happen by osmosis. This came as a result of this party, the alternatives to incarceration legislation of …

The Deputy Speaker Deputy Speaker Mm-hmm.

Mr. Wayne Caines In 2001 the alternatives to incarceration came as a result of what? In 1998, the Bermuda Progressive Labour Party being elected into office, one of the things that they did in the first three years is put in the alternative to incarceration legislation. T his is some of the fruit …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Wow, wow!

Mr. Wayne Caines Mr. [Deputy] Speaker, yesterday a lady drove up in a taxi and she brought a hand of ba-nanas. The little, small Bermuda ones. One lad, she brought all she had to help somebody. Another lady came, drove up, Mr. Deputy Speaker, and she got out of the car. I went …

Mr. Wayne Caines I remember Mr. Speaker, I remember a time, Mr. Speaker, where my father (as you know) was in the Tax Commissioner’s Office—

The Speaker The Speaker Mm-hmm.

Mr. Wayne Caines —for the majority of his professional career. And he, like many civil servants today, could not openly discuss their political affiliation. And like many civil servants there was this fear that if they spoke out against the powers that be, if they spoke out about the injustic es in our …

The Speaker The Speaker Mm-hmm.

Mr. Wayne Caines My father is an accountant. He counts numbers. You will never, ever hear him speak publicly. He in that house, he was measured, he was disciplined. But guess what he said to me? I toed the line so you don’t have to. I am minded that there are things in …

Mr. Wayne Caines Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, MP. Deputy Speaker, you have your 20 minutes, sir. BEING THANKFUL Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In the spirit of thanksgiving, I want to thank the Caines family for what they did yesterday. They didn’t have to do it. But they did it and …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member That is right. Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: That started via Public Works. That is where all that started from. And we made no apology for it then and we make no apology now. TCD. You know, that was a nightmare, a nightmare many years ago. Because it only happens …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member What happened? Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: They denied that! And it sits down on Cabinet grounds. Now, Mr. Speaker, I said all of that to get to the next point. The UK now has a Labour Government. So, our next Governor would be a Labour Governor appointee. And I …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Oh, yes. Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: Oh boy! Oh boy! That crowd around (where was it?) Par -La-Ville, we all have it was only the first six pages for about 37 days. How wrong we were, Mr. Speaker! So, Mr. Speaker, again I make this plea to this Government. …

The Speaker The Speaker Does any other Member wish to make a contribution? Junior Minister. HISTORY OF RACE IN BERMUDA POLITICS

Mr. Jache Adams Good evening, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker The Speaker Good evening.

Mr. Jache Adams Good evening, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, always a tall task to follow my cousin. I will do my best. Mr. Speaker, my comments this evening are not about the Throne Speech Reply. We had a debate on that. There was a line in there that said, and I quote, “Some …

Mr. Jache Adams I remember not even being a week into my campaign, and I found myself at a crossroads. Do I pander to this individual, knowing that I was in a traditionally OBA/UBP area and therefore needed all of the votes that I could get? Do I pander to this individual? Or …

Mr. Jache Adams Since the beginning, since the beginning, Mr. Speaker, the record will reflect the PLP has had White members, White candidates, White MPs and even White Government Ministers. Mr. Speaker, at our PLP meetings, our White members will tell you they are treated no differently than anyone else. Their voices are …

Mr. Jache Adams Mr. Speaker, some may think it is controversial, but I am just going to say it anyway. In my opinion, Dr. Barbara Ball is more deserving to be a National Hero than some of the ones that we have!

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Come on!

Some Hon. Members Some Hon. Members Yes, yes. Yes.

Mr. Jache Adams But I will leave that for now and I may pick that up on another day. And what Zane De Silva means to our party and our country needs no defending. The combined Opposition can try to paint [him] however they wish. Our support for him is unwavering.

Mr. Jache Adams I will tell you why. Let us dig a bit deeper. Mr. Speaker, I need all of those listening to know and understand that two of the founding principles of the Progressive Labour Party are the fight to end racial discrimination and the pursuit of economic pari ty. I need …

Mr. Jache Adams And if I am being honest, if I am being transparent, if I am being forthright, it disappoints me as a Black Bermudian that when I walk into the 206 29 November 2024 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly Reginald [E.] Burrows Building, there are not many Whites prepared …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. Does any other Member?

Mr. Christopher Famous Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker The Speaker MP Famous. HISTORY OF RACE IN BERMUDA POLITICS

Mr. Christopher Famous I am going to just tie in a little bit to MP Jache Adams. Mr. Speaker, you know the history of the PLP voting records over the years. Mr. Speaker, I could not even be an MP if it were not for White people voting for me. Many, quite a …

Mr. Christopher Famous We had 30 seats because White Bermudians realise the rhetoric of some folks was false. They realised they were told, Oh, if the PLP gets in, they are going to take your land. They are going to take your business. They are going to do this and the country is …

Mr. Christopher Famous I know. I know. Bermuda House of Assembly [Laughter]

Mr. Christopher Famous The irony is —right? In my first election, I had 55 per cent of the vote. In my second election it was 67 per cent. And my seat is half -White and half -Black. So what does that tell us? Mr. Speaker, let me move on to my substantive speech …

Mr. Christopher Famous Anymore. [Laughter] CAN ANYTHING GOOD COME OUT OF BACK O’ TOWN?

Mr. Christopher Famous Mr. Speaker, everything is called a contingency plan, just in case. So just in case in the next election I do not make it, I am going to prac-tice to be an AME pastor. And today is my first sermon. [Inaudible interjections and laughter]

Mr. Christopher Famous Mr. Speaker, John 1:46 — write it down.

Mr. Christopher Famous Write it down, Brother King! “Nathanael said to him, ‘Can anything good come out of Nazareth?’ Philip said to him, ‘Come and see.’” Let me repeat. “‘Can anything good come out of Naza-reth?’” [Inaudible interjection]

Mr. Christopher Famous I will get to who came out of Nazareth in the end. So, Mr. Speaker, I ask today, Can anything good come out of Back o’ Town ? Because when you say Back o’ Town, nobody has positive connotations. Everybody has got all sorts of negative connotations. I won’t even …

Mr. Christopher Famous Okay. All right. Honourable Patricia Gordon- Pamplin, Beulah. Honourable Nelson Bascome, Friswells Hill. Honourable Michael Weeks, Friswells Hill. Honourable Michael Caines —Wayne Michael Caines; the Honourable Walter Roban; the Honourable Jason P. Hayward, Parsons Road. Honourable Neville Tyrrell, Angle Street. Dame Lois Browne- Evans, Parsons Road. So, I ask again, …

Mr. Christopher Famous Well, probably Baxter’s [Pies] is probably close, but . . .

Some Hon. Members Some Hon. Members Ahh! No! Ahh!

Mr. Christopher Famous Boulevard Community Club. Young Men’s Social Club. Dub City. Fish N Tings. [Inaudible interjection]

Mr. Christopher Famous Fish N Ting, mon! [Laughter]

Mr. Christopher Famous Jamaican Grill. I can go on and on, Mr. Speaker. [Inaudible interjection]

Mr. Christopher Famous Pembroke Youth Centre. [Crosstalk ]

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member There you go. [Crosstalk and laughter ]

Mr. Christopher Famous Jungle Bunny. You know about Jungle Bunny? [Inaudible interjections]

Mr. Christopher Famous All right.

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Moriah Bend!

Mr. Christopher Famous Yes, Moriah Bend. Mr. Speaker, many people in here are Berkeleyites. Does anyone know where Berkeley started, Mr. Speaker? Samaritans Hall, Samaritans Lodge on Court Street. The first discussion was on Princess Street at the Jackson residence, Back o’ Town. Mr. Speaker, St. Paul AME on Court Street, right next …

Mr. Christopher Famous Can anything [good] come from Back o’ Town ? Can anything good? Oh, sorry. I forgot to mention the King Street Seventh- day Adventist, Church of God, so on and so forth. Can anything good come from the Back o’ Town ? [Inaudible interjection]

Mr. Christopher Famous Yes, yes. See? So, Mr. Speaker, that is my sermon for Black Friday. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. [Desk thumping]

The Speaker The Speaker I thought you said you are practicing to be a minister. They go on and on. They keep saying they are wrapping up, but then they start again, you know. They might have three wrap- ups before they finish. [Laughter]

Mr. Christopher Famous They might have me up. I am a “PP.” So , they might have me up for bribery or something. [Laughter]

The Speaker The Speaker All right. Minister Hayward. Hon. Jason Hayward: Good evening, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker The Speaker Good evening. ELIMINATION OF VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN Hon. Jason Hayward: Mr. Speaker, today I simply want to lend my voice to a campaign that the world is currently in the midst of. A 15- day campaign which started on November 25, which was an International Day for the Elimination of …

Some Hon. Members Some Hon. Members That is right. That is right. Yes. Hon. Jason Hayward: But failure to intervene means that a behaviour may continue. And so, I think it is our responsibility to ensure that we have the proper laws in place. We have the proper enforcement to ensure that perpetrators of violence and …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member All women. Hon. Jason Hayward: Correct. And that is exactly why I did not want to specify young versus old. But it is across the board, all women. And, Mr. Speaker, we do not have to stand out there on a limb. There is power in collective action. That is …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you, Minister. Does any other Member? MP De Silva, you are rising to speak? Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker The Speaker You have your 20 minutes. BEING THANKFUL Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Mr. Speaker, following in the vein of many of us tonight and today with regard to thanksgiving. Whilst we heard from MP Caines earlier about the experience he and his family had not only over the last …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Almost set sail from South Shore. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Yes, they did. Now we win back the Government, and the current Minister, Minister Burch, has tried everything in his power to try and make lemonade out of that lemon. And the OBA have started again. And they …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Yes. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: So, Mr. Speaker, I say this, right? I listened to MP Jache Adams, the Junior Minister, very carefully as he spoke about the Progressive Labour Party. And he mentioned my name. The one thing that he did not say . . . he …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Yes, he has. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: He is one of the hardest - working MPs I have ever seen.

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Yes, he is. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: He is always doing something in his constituency. Hon. Derrick V. Burgess, Sr.: He keeps my lights on. Hon. Zane J. S. De Silva: Yes, he does. But, Mr. Speaker, this Government, I mean if you listen to some of the …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you. Does any other Member wish to make a contribution? Any other Member? MP King, you have your 20 minutes. PLP GOVERNMENT SHORT ON PERFORMANCE

Mr. Robert King Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We have heard much here today. A lot of it is true, but much of it has not been spoken about as well. We congratulate ourselves for the hotel developments, definitely the Southampton Princess. I think we are all in agreement that that is going to …

Mr. Robert King Oh, okay. I will continue then. So, the fact is we have a situation where we are saying we are doing these certain things, but it is not achieving the outcomes. Would it interest the House to know that persons who have substance use disorders who are under the treatment …

Mr. Wayne Caines Point of order, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker The Speaker Point of order. POINT OF ORDER [Misleading]

Mr. Wayne Caines Two points. Mr. Speaker, the Member is inadvertently misleading the House. Number one, he said there are no programmes. There is a GED programme. There is an anti-violence programme. There is the TLC programme for drug rehabilitation that is down at the co- ed correctional facility. There is a GED …

The Speaker The Speaker Okay. Thank you. Be mindful of structure.

Mr. Robert King Yes, no problem. Thank you for that. And there again, like I said, the Honourable Member has made some points. Having worked within that system, what I am expressing to the court is this. The person has a serious substance use disorder. The programme is intensive, high- risk, high -need …

Mr. Robert King No, no, no. I just . . . I will make some broad comments.

The Speaker The Speaker You just cannot go back into the day.

Mr. Robert King Yes, yes, yes. No problem. The goal and purpose of the Opposition is to make sure that we are an effective Opposition, that we 214 29 November 2024 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly do seek the truth, and that we do fight for the people who do not …

The Speaker The Speaker I was saying to you, you cannot go back into an earlier —

Mr. Robert King Okay. No problem.

The Speaker The Speaker —debate from today.

Mr. Robert King But in terms of that —

The Speaker The Speaker Those comments —

Mr. Robert King Yes, yes. Okay.

The Speaker The Speaker —should have been contributed during the debate.

Mr. Robert King No. Thank you for that. The other thing, Mr. Speaker, [is] we keep getting painted into this box about this combined Opposition.

Some Hon. Members Some Hon. Members Oh, oh!

Mr. Robert King Right? [Inaudible interjections ]

Mr. Robert King No, no, no. It is because statements are made, and they are to be relied upon just like you get a US dollar bill that says, “In God we trust.” We are being asked to do the same thing with no evidence to support that. Just because it is green …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member We still are.

Mr. Robert King And so are we. We are doing our jobs the best that we can. The problem I have is that when we have a question about how we get from $47 million to $100 million and it said that it is going to be this one thing and now it …

The Speaker The Speaker It is an ongoing investigation. [Inaudible interjection]

Mr. Robert King Mr. Speaker, he is misleading the House by suggesting that we are a combined Opposi-tion because then—

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member You are!

Mr. Robert King Okay, well, let’s . . . Now . . . You know what? Yes, let’s do that. So, when we go back to the people’s campaign for truth, justice, and jobs, what would you call that with the union and the PLP marching on top of the hill for those …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Against the OBA. [Crosstalk ]

Mr. Robert King Today — [Inaudible interjections ]

Mr. Robert King Yes. Combined Opposition— [Inaudible interjection]

Mr. Robert King Combined Opposition against the One Bermuda Alliance, which was . . . Yes. However, Bermuda House of Assembly interesting enough that today . . . I do not know if you knew or not, but there were parents and some teachers outside with the protest giving an interview with the …

The Speaker The Speaker I am totally unaware of what took place today outside. That is why I did not respond. I just do not know what took place outside. Hon. E. David Burt: He is misleading the House. There was a joint statement —

The Speaker The Speaker Okay. Hon. E. David Burt: —of resolution. So, for him to say they can just toe the line, he is not being factual.

The Speaker The Speaker I am following you. Continue. So, the statement was from the protesters and Government? I do not know — Hon. E. David Burt: Yes.

The Speaker The Speaker That is what I am saying. Hon. E. David Burt: There was a joint statement that was issued. So, for him to say that people were just told to toe the line is factually incorrect. That is what The Royal Gazette printed when it interpreted the headline, which is maybe …

The Speaker The Speaker And I am totally unaware of it because — Hon. E. David Burt: That is fine.

The Speaker The Speaker —I have been sitting in this Chair the entire day. Hon. E. David Burt: But I am informing you that he is misleading the House, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker The Speaker Okay. So, I do not know what took place out there. So —

Mr. Robert King Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker The Speaker So, I am mindful . . . for both Members. I am mindful that something took place today outside that I am unaware of. So, I cannot make a comment about what was said, what was not said. But if I follow . . . Premier, if I follow what …

The Speaker The Speaker Okay.

Mr. Robert King Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Now we go to the matter of the unfair treatment of certain Members of this Honourable House who the banks are giving a hard time to.

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Tread very carefully.

Mr. Robert King I will, I will—

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Be careful what you say.

Mr. Robert King What I am suggesting, Mr. Speaker , is that it is not normal for these sorts of things to happen, and given that the current Administration has been in existence since 1963, it would suggest that the banks’ approach to financial governance and pru-dence— making sure that things are done …

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Mr., Mr. —

Mr. Robert King Well, under the Governor, sir. [Crosstalk]

The Speaker The Speaker The Courts fall under the Governor, the Governor. Yes, under the Governor. [Inaudible interjections ]

Mr. Robert King Well, hey, it is going to happen. We are going to make mistakes. It is going to happen. But the point is . . . Sorry, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker The Speaker Just talk to the Chair.

Mr. Robert King So, the point is that the banks do not ordinarily go after certain persons unless there is cause. They are duty -bound to follow certain 216 29 November 2024 Official Hansard Report Bermuda House of Assembly procedures. There are things in the banking Act and things that should be changed. …

The Speaker The Speaker Okay.

Mr. Robert King Okay.

The Speaker The Speaker Be guided by the comments, please.

Mr. Robert King Thank you, Mr. Speaker. So, when we are talking about misleading, I apologise if that is what I have been doing. [Inaudible interjection]

Mr. Robert King And I am also reminded [that] back in 2003, a certain person made a comment during, you know, the election cycle that we had to mislead you be-cause the whole purpose was to give the illusion that we were a unified body so that we could win the election.

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member Sounds like you. [Laughter]

Mr. Robert King Not at all. I was not the leader at the time, but the point is — [Inaudible interjections ]

An Hon. Member An Hon. Member You were a part of the OBA. Oh, you were UBP, weren’t you? Mr. Robert King: No, I was not. So — [Inaudible interjection]

The Speaker The Speaker Speak to the Chair . . . Don’t get sidetracked.

Mr. Robert King What I am saying, Mr. Speaker, is many things are said short on performance. Many proposals have been made, but without a plan that is based on best practice and evidence, we are left to believe, and think, and feel that this is the right way. That is not the …

The Speaker The Speaker Thank you for your contribution. Premier, I see you on your feet. It means you would like your 20 minutes as well. BEING THANKFUL Hon. E. David Burt: Well, Mr. Speaker, I mean this . . . this . . . this entire conversation today started by people saying what …

The Speaker The Speaker Premier, thank you for keeping it short. Members, we now stand for adjournment until Friday next. I trust that everyone will have a good week-end. Be safe and sound, and remember we come here to do the people’s business. Have a good weekend. [Gavel] [At 7:27 pm, the House stood …

November 29, 2024

Session Summary

Key Topics

Bills & Motions

Notable Moments

Debate Transcript